So last week, I decided to test a theory. I always believed what put a man in the friendzone is being over-invested, very nice, and showing you actually care about a girl. I messaged this thot on snapchat to see how she would change if I performed these "beta" traits.
So at first I started talking to her like I would talk to any girl im trying to fuck. Push-pull teasing, leaving her on read sometimes, making interesting convos etc. On that same day she started sending me naked pictures of herself. We also planned to "hang out" on a later date. This was no real achievement; she was a thot so the process wasn't very hard. But simply talking to her as somone I wanted to have sex with and not a dear friend produced results.
Now a few days later, I guess she got slightly comfortable with me and brought up a personal problem of hers but then tried to undermine it and pull attention away from it (which all girls do in an effort to get attention from you). I humored her and tried to talk about what was wrong and she started talking about her problem in a pattern of "blah blah blah but I shouldnt bother you, blah blah blah it doesnt matter though blah blah blah no one can make me feel better." I also strayed away from my habits of leaving girls on read, answering slow and I wasnt as playful with her. I posed as someone who cared about her welfare, and I noticed she became distant.
You ever notice how guys in the friendzone are always the ones girls talk to about their feelings and problems and relationship issues? Thats not a false stereotype, its the truth. When I began to be this caring person, she started being less sexual and more whiney. She would do mean things and justify her actions with her problems and play the victim role. If you dont believe my theory, know this test was conducted in a week and a half. Her behavior started changing as soon as I made myself appear invested in her.
TL:DR The man who develops deep emotions for the girl and invest more than her is the one who always gets friendzoned. Know that your goal is sex, and just that
FatmanO 5y ago
Just talking to a girl on messneger right now, this is very useful
[deleted] 5y ago
I've never been friendzoned because I don't really like being friends with women. I just like fucking them.
DarkVariant 5y ago
Yes. When you first meet a girl, this is obvious. But phases shift, and when she starts falling in love with you, keeping this aloof, only wants sex.. insensitive esque attitude will push great LTR's away.
But - there's a way to care... BUT still be masculine. Display caring behavior... and then an hour later sexually banter with her via text. Grab her by the face next time you see her and tell her: "you're gonna do X next time we have sex. You understand me?" Or.. "I'm gonna do X next time I get you naked. So get ready for it, brat."
As long as you can shift into dominating, sexy, no apologies male.. the other shit can coexist. My experience anyway..
Cantloginhere 5y ago
Women value comfort, men value sex. But if either are given too freely you're instinctual labelled slutty and low value.
Oland_Devo 5y ago
I can get on board with this, via text. Texting is bullshit. Definitely slow play on the text. Wait for her to text you before you respond, take half an hour, and be brief when you do. Maybe a flirt or a push pull.
Now on the other hand i have a plate that tells me everything. Tells me shit about her friends. Shit about BP betas confessing their love for her, trying to buy her shit. Take her places. Blah blah blah. We fuck, I leave.
I think in general girls like to talk about their problems, it's how you handle the interaction that keeps you on top of the game.
PFD_2 5y ago
And you're right, theres nothing wrong with a girl telling you about all her problems, what is wrong is when you try to be her therapist
chazthundergut 5y ago
Men end up in the friendzone because they try to build comfort instead of trying to build attraction and lead the relationship towards emotional intimacy instead of sexual intimacy.
Essentially it boils down to men viewing their time and attention as less valuable than a woman's pussy. Not even her pussy, but just a whiff of her pussy, just the possibility of getting her pussy sometime in the future.
It is pathetic, and unfortunately, all too many men go through it (myself included).
The best way to avoid the friendzone is by being sexually polarizing. Be masculine and straightforward and upfront. Better to be rejected 100 times than waste a single day orbiting some goofy chick. And don't give time or attention to chicks who aren't giving you pussy.
DwightWolftail 5y ago
Women know deep inside, that her problems should not be a man's problems. Hence, if you start trying to help her with her problems, you start becoming less of a man. They were simply designed to talk with other women about stuff.
10points4gryffinddor 5y ago
This is so true and so sad
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SPREAD_THE_LOVE_7791 5y ago
But still my natural inclination is to do those nice things when I really like a girl. I can manage fine with new girls, but with the girl I'm seeing that I actually like a lot, I don't mind hearing her problems and dare I say it am actually interested in them. I don't try to give her advice or pry too much, but I like deep conversations and sometimes those involve past emotional experiences. I feel myself falling into my old beta ways with this girl and it causes me a lot of cognitive dissonance in the moment and it's honestly a lot of work keeping myself in check. Even so, I still slip up a lot. I think trying to be RP and a good guy in a LTR is one of the hardest things about TRP.
Dawnguards 5y ago
Girls are weird creatures indeed. You care for her, try to fix her problems and she becomes distant.. You treat them like crap and they start respecting you.. Getting red-pilled isnt difficult, you just learn, and get insight.. But to change your character from good person, to an ashole is a different matter.
Bluetinfoilhat 5y ago
It is not weird not to be treated like a child. Don't fix someones problem period.
Victor-James 5y ago
Guys, get it out of your head that you need to be an asshole to get the girl. You can be a good man with a great character. However you must have a backbone and not tolerate disrespectful behavior.
That doesn't make you an asshole. It makes you a man that women can't have their way with. Big difference.
lapeparoja 5y ago
it does in the eyes of the girls, especially after the eventual breaking, not that it matters
Dawnguards 5y ago
For example: For you - its having backbone, for me its a bit asshole behavior. Or in other words, maybe some have more tolerance towards chicks behavior and instead that, you would call it as lack of boneback or something.
jonpe87 5y ago
you don't need to be an asshole, act like you are fucking a girl better than her, actually I already had one girl telling me to be a asshole so she could forget me, how stupid, if I turned in a Asshole she would be more addicted
Dawnguards 5y ago
If you dont have the looks, she wouldnt care if you fuck better girl than her.
jonpe87 5y ago
Do this, imagine that you are fucking a girl better than her, Megan Fox for example, Megan Fox will be in your bed next weekend, you know that, how would you treat this next girl? This is the feeling that you want, this aloofness, you want but you don't need. Actually sometimes when she is talking imagine Megan Fox naked in your bed. Play with it guys, its fun.
SILENTSAM69 5y ago
It is possible to be friends with a woman. Just don't do favours for her like you are trying to get her to like you. It causes a psychological trick that makes you have more feelings for her. Your brain convinces itself you have romantic feelings to justify why you do so much for them.
[deleted] 5y ago
This world is fucked lmao. Gotta play the game boys. I guess that’s why they call it “game”
Victor-James 5y ago
Women are attracted to men who make them feel emotions. Sadness, happiness, Anger, whatever. Alpha males excite them because they are unpredictable. They are sexual. Its a like a drug they can't get enough off
People who get placed in the friend zone, beta males, don't elicit any sort of emotion with the girl. They are safe and predicable and boring.
We all place value in the things we have to work harder for in life. When a guy develops deep emotions in a girl and invests more than she does, he no longer a challenge to her. She know she can get him and have her way with him. The alpha on the other hand is the real challenge. She can never have her way with him.
You must make her work for your affection.
therymancruise 5y ago
Screenshotted this, thank you!
ApexmanRP 5y ago
Women want to feel emotions, as you say, good or bad. They don't talk to Alphas about their emotions, because they are experiencing them.
I believe if a woman is talking to you about her emotions either you are already friend-zoned or she is trying to betasize you.
Victor-James 5y ago
Yes and no. If you are just dealing with a plate, then absolutely do not allow her to talk to you about your emotions. I think this advice is applicable to 99% of men reading this. You are young. You are not her emotional tampon.
If however you are in a LTR or in a marriage, she can view you as a complete stud and still will want to rely on you for emotional support. In a way you are correct, she is trying to add beta elements to your character to go along with the alpha frame you have already established. In essence she wants to create the perfect man for her.
destraht 5y ago
Seems really simple to me. If you are in a LTR then she is going to talk.
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[deleted] 5y ago
So if i insult her then ignore her, she will become attracted to me? I don't think that's how it goes...
Ray_pinasses1210 5y ago
Lol right? What the op should say is that if she finds you ATTRACTIVE then she won’t friend zone you
[deleted] 5y ago
'Nah, u r just bitter inzel'
Zep88 5y ago
I suggest not going a full 180 on them, just hit em with the 90.
Charmingaxelotl 5y ago
I mean that’s better then sitting and listening to her problems.
Victor-James 5y ago
If you are genuinely not a troll and need some advice I would love to explain this concept to you. DM me.
It seems like you have a lot to learn
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swipedstripes 5y ago
I've had fights with girls, where I'd insult them. She thought I was weak and started screaming. I told her to stfu and get out of the house (wasn't even my house). When she walked away crying I told her good girl gtfo.
She was mad, her friend was also mad. I didn't break frame and just didn't go near those girls for 6 months. After a 6 months one of those girls felt bad and asked to talk. We made up and she asked me to also talk to the first girl I mentioned I agreed. She instantly hugged me and it was good again.
After that small fight she always treated me with respect and a friend of mine remarked she was playing with her hair the whole time I was talking and not paying attention to her.
In this case I insulted and ignored, social pressure made the first girl apologize and the second girl wanted to talk with me. If your social presence is important they'll reconsider their words and actions and make up with you.
And btw the insulted girl resorted to tactics like messaging friends I was hanging out with, I saw her Facebook messenger icon come up when I was with them. She was still trying to anger me by flirting with my friends. Now even if she didn't find me attractive before she suddenly went a long way to get some attention. This was before the pill but I legit gave no fucks.
But it showed to me that evoking emotion in a girl is better then evoking beta disgust. Anger and Passion go hand in hand.
[deleted] 5y ago
But did u boned any of them?
VipKyle 5y ago
Bro she played with her hair while looking at him, even better.
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swipedstripes 5y ago
She has a boyfriend now, much drama if I will break that. So I haven't made any attempts yet. She's the best friend of my friends girlfriend. She's the ringleader female so it's always good to have her in your pocket. But I won't pull anything risky for pussy nowadays.
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[deleted] 5y ago
This right here is an absolute gold post! If I have to be honest this is why I got LJBF by 2 girls in the past I was having a fling with during my beta days.
Valenx_Ackerman 5y ago
I ended up frienzoned with a girl i was dating (several dates/kissing, etc..) but after realizing it I refused to be friends. Her first reactions were like "whatever, I don't care". 2 weeks later she was asking me "How is it going? are you ok??", I ignored and blocked her from FB and 1 week later she was asking me nicely through whatsapp "Ey, why are you ignoring me? Are you ok? How is it going??". I told her I refused to be friends and her reactions were a rush of soft-insults like "How can't you get through it. We only had 3-4 dates, grow up" "I thought u were a mature person" "Yeah whatever, fuck off", etc... Then I wrote her that she has the right to refuse more dates with me, but I had the right to refuse her friendship. I wasn't asking her how is it going or whatever because I honestly give 0 fucks,
I don't get why so many girls want attention only from guys, and if you actively refuse her friendship they go crazy as if no men on earth had ever did that to them... I bet this girl friendzoned dozens of guys and all their reactions were acepting "just being friends"
Well fuck you, if you don't give me what I want get out of my way
NeedingAdvice86 5y ago
Guys end up in the friendzone because they don't make moves and lead the attracted girls to sex...not because they become invested in them.
She likely changed her behavior because you went a week and a half or more not setting up a date to fuck....so she decided that either you were not attracted to her, wanted to be a friend or wasn't man enough to get her naked and fucked.
If a girl is attracted toward you and you don't escalate, you will end up in the friendzone....not because of your investment.
PFD_2 5y ago
I said in the post that we set up a date.
RedPilledRoaster 5y ago
You’re not her friend you’re her orbiter there is no friendzone just being used
[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah so the real problem is how to convert a girl from a plate to an LTR.
Reaper1967 5y ago
Your statement has nothing to do with the context of this post, yet I’ll clarify something for you anyways.
There is no “converting” a plate to an LTR. You screen for it and she proves herself worthy of it over time. It’s something that comes of age, so to speak.
[deleted] 5y ago
Of course it has to do with the context. If you just want sex, it is easier to just be alpha all the time. If you want more than sex or fwb then you have to open yourself up to a girl, and thats the hard part... how to show any vulnerability or weakness without being beta.
Reaper1967 5y ago
Not in the context of this post it doesn’t. But to answer your question, you don’t show weakness. You can “let her in” and divulge some of your “problems”, but you don’t let her see behind the curtain. You show her that you’re a man who is able to face adversity and conquer it. Your ability to overcome obstacles (shit tests, comfort tests, life, people, whatever) and keep her feeling “safe” is what will keep your LTR around. She doesn’t want to see you cry, or vent to her about how you can’t afford your bills now that you lost your job, or that you’ll beat up that meanie who called her fat. She wants a man who gets shit done.
There are still so many people on here who get caught up in the terminology and can’t see past it. You don’t “be alpha “ and “not be beta”, it’s not an act or a persona you wear. You be the best you that is possible, and you handle shit. YOUR SHIT, her shit is not your problem.
LAdude71 5y ago
I have to agree here. I invested too much too soon, was nice and boring, missed out on sex cuz I failed to present myself sexually.
Question is how to turn it around if you're in no contact and never run into her anywhere?
rn7889 5y ago
Go over to married red pill sub. Even if you aren't married, their posts are the solution to that. First step though is to STFU. Good news is you can save it.
jonpe87 5y ago
Send her a pic of your abs, five minutes later tell her that you sended it to the wrong person
oyoungpadawan 5y ago
You get downvoted but I've seen this shit actually work, a ripped collegue of mines does this often.
jonpe87 5y ago
of course it works, "They love jerks" is the manosphere slogan, and the white knights get butt hurt when you try to teach them, when you get downvotes here you know you are doing it right ;)
WTHub 5y ago
The thing is, if you're not wired to not act this way, are you screwed? I mean, ALL women can't be this way, right? Eventually, you'll find a woman that would actually be attracted to you FOR that reason. ie good listener.
PFD_2 5y ago
Being a good listener doesn't always mean being too invested. Keyword is "listen." You can let a bitch talk all she wants, doesn't me you have to respond lmao. I know for a fact a girl went het emotions to a guy she's fucking and a lot of the times the dude will say some shit like "wow thats rough" or "thats crazy." Youre showing youre listening but not being too invested either
smao815 5y ago
You say don't talk about her feelings but if it comes up what you do?
PFD_2 5y ago
You may laugh when you're reading this, but I always same some shit like "wow thats crazy" or "das tuff" and they just abandon their emotional rant lmao
thepontiff_ 5y ago
Lmaooooooo I do the same shit
graceful_aggression 5y ago
Think the 2/3 rule is very relevant here in terms of reciprocation to a girl's flirting, conversation, texting, any kind of investment in her etc. You would be very surprised what it is like when you view yourself as the prize, show & tell *just* enough to display your worth, frame, charisma, social standing etc, but operate on the mindset that *you* are the prize and you'd be very surprised the extra mile of pining girls will do to have a piece of it. Flip the selection process.
eluethero 5y ago
I had same experience with a girl. It was a girl i hardly remember, we came across in my friend group twice only. I was not impressed by her yet she was fuckable and this my friend is the only thing that matters after 3 months of dry-spell. We exchanged some text (even naughty ones) and i decided to set up a date with her. The day came up, we met at somewhere near to a beach, walked around a little than she decided to go shopping (discounts and all that shit) first fatal mistake: I agreed.
After shopping we decided to get ourselves a coffee, at this point things started to get interesting. Suddenly she started to talk about how ex-boyfriend cheated on her (potential alpha-widowed i thought suddenly) and her childhood "friend" turned out to be interested in her she said she was shocked when he told him (in this moment i was like, okay now we have a beta thats great) . As we decided earlier i said "You know what? Let me grab two beers and than we go to beach, i promise that i will make you forget all of this" she agreed. In the beach part she continued to talk about all of stuff and how she still feels something to him (I was like oh man i'm fucked up, thanks to god she paid for the coffees). I said i came here for to see her not hear her problems and changed topic. As alcohol level in our blood started to rise we got closer and even kissed few times (my dick was like a ICBM at the moment) than she suddenly started to cry and talked about his ex-boyfriend and said "Look he texted me today, i want him to love me again so i can get my revenge on him by dumping him." That was the last drop and i raised my voice (almost yelling) "Okay so you called me here to whine about some dickhead who is probably smoking an orgasm cigarette with the girl he is cheating on you while texting you and the poor guy you friendzoned who is possibly jerking off to your pics and me coming here to get a score but only returning home with blue balls. Fuck you, fuck your ex, fuck your beta friend... God i hate all this game and shit." i left.
She was shocked, couldn't even say a word and i returned home with blue balls and with some kissing. I replayed all this date in my head and found where i did mistakes and never ever did them again.
So do not even listen women's whinning, i think even that is a shit test.
red_matrix 5y ago
It also depend on where they are in their ovulation cycle - half the time she's on the hunt for alpha dick, the other half she wants billy beta. Keep this in the back of your mind. They're prisoners of biology.
Throwaway_5252 5y ago
Yeah, I adopted the bad boy look after inhabiting the world prostitution for awhile. Started wearing leather, drinking, smoking and just all around looking like a badass who you don't want to fuck with. One day I stopped and was like..."holy shit.... I'm kind of apart of the criminal underworld now." All of a sudden I have these girls all over me and I hardly give a shit. I turned a lot of girls down because I knew I could get it wherever I want it. 10's would jump at me and I'd be like "fuck off, I'm trying to have a drink myself at the bar, I don't want sex right now" and they'd look at me like "How could you turn me down for sex!?!?!" Abundance that's why.
I did the good boyfriend thing for awhile in college. The: Did you get home okay? Do you want to decide what date we go on this weekend? I have fun time hanging out you!
I wanted that romantic, mutual love, I guess somewhat blue-pilled idea of love and I always got left high and dry when the girl just stopped following through or ghosted. Now I just fuck a model looking women, some of whom become my lady friends, but I don't loose my shit if they cut off contact me me cuz guess what, another 10 is just a phone call away and maybe I'll just start a little love interest with her.
Sometimes I love the simplicity of it. No jumping through hoops to attain sex and the women are always beautiful and friendly. Other time I yearn for something more deeper and passionate, but whatever.... I'd rather be content then getting my emotions all out of whack over a chick.
VasiliyZaitzev 5y ago
When women bring up their problems, I drop some version of "If you just want to bitch, that's why you orbiters," on them. It's a verbal jab to the chin.
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VasiliyZaitzev 5y ago
"Is this a 'solve' or a 'just listen'? Because if it's a 'solve', bring it here. OTOH, if you just want to bitch, then that's what your girlfriends are for....oh. Did I say that out loud?"
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zyqkvx 5y ago
And now you are immune to being treat like that. A lot of evil things I've done was for that reason.
52andjacked 5y ago
They end up FriendZoned because they actually give a shit. I quit giving a shit if a woman liked me. History has shown me that for every woman who didn't like me there were 2 that did. Hence the reason I don't give a shit.
Victor-James 5y ago
By not giving a shit it subconsciously indicates to the girl you have an abundance mentality mindset. If she doesn't perform and meet your expectations you will walk away.
This is extremely powerful and very attractive to women..
52andjacked 5y ago
Not only that it comforts your mind .If you ever have to "make" someone like you , you are forever at a disadvantage..
52andjacked 5y ago
Not only that it comforts your mind .If you ever have to "make" someone like you , you are forever at a disadvantage..
BigMawsmidget 5y ago
Think this is where I struggle the most.
Edit to say the not giving a shit part, but the only way to start to not do so is adapt it into everyday routine.
52andjacked 5y ago
You have to put yourself in an abundance situation to have an abundance mindset. I was a very big fish in a small pond and it leg to my abundance. I was making $22 an hour 20 years ago and working 60 hours a week. I had a home paid for and I was a competitive bodybuilder. Around me were 18 to 22 year old cashiers ( predominantly black and Hispanic wome) in a city( Miami) where it was common to throw out pussy. I literally never took it personal if a girl didn't like me. I always had another one. Just had to make sure that when a good girl crossed by path I was smart enough to stop what I was doing.
52andjacked 5y ago
I only date women from my fan club. I refuse to chase. Its not just pointless but its counterproductive.
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BigMawsmidget 5y ago
Think this is where most guys that are stuck in anger phase mess up. This I don't think gets talked about a lot, but how to go about doing other things so that you get an abundance mentality.
Me for example I'll be real I'm a lazy bastard as a grown man I won't even do the simplest of tasks that give me something better to do. Such as cutting grass or washing my car. I just cut the grass for the first time in literally 10+ years. It was at that moment I realized holy shit this is a problem. I know people go out to the bars etc, but it's like man do you even meet the minimum requirements to just be a man.
Now as we speak actually trying to find other outlets that help me build this type of thinking up. Because Video Games/TV/Job isn't going to cut it.
--____notfunny____-- 5y ago
Friendzone is a consequence of scarcity mentality
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broscientologist 5y ago
I’ve been friend zoned by every guy I have ever met. Does it bother me? No, because Im attracted to women. Why does it bother me when women do it? Here is a better question... does it bother me when men won’t be my friend?