I recently re-read the 48 laws of power on the sidebar. I always take in Machiavellian knowledge very carefully, as it is powerful. I do not wish to ever enter a battlefield holding a weapon I'm not yet strong enough to wield. That being said, my recent read was enlightening due to new experiences. One of these being my experience with a very hot woman I have been seeing for the past year or so.
I don't want to make this post long, because the message is very simple: The level of innate Machiavellian instincts that these women have is almost incomprehensible to us men. I knew beforehand that entering an LTR with a girl of this caliber would be a great challenge, but I did not know it would be the most enlightening TRP experience to date. When reading through the 48 laws, I could relate every single one as a tactic she has used against me at some point or another. Sometimes it was effective, a lot of times I knew what she was doing and was somewhat immune, and there are probably countless times I am completely unaware of. The most astounding part however, is how naturally and effortlessly it flows from her to the point that it doesn't even seem Machiavellian. You cannot beat them at their own game, you will lose. Being aware of their game is the best you can do.
Become a truly masculine man and she will be in awe. If she is captivated by you, she will have her femininity put you in awe. On the other side, you will be stronger and more aware than before.
NitricTV 6y ago
Most of the laws are fucking common sense. Holy shit were you that clueless beforehand?
SexdictatorLucifer 6y ago
Everything on this sub makes sense. The hard part isn't reading it though.
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eslong 6y ago
Girls are not that mysterious and cunning. If that was the case they would have assumed heights of power a long time ago.
Women arent meant to be on the pedastal here yet, here they are being portrayed as some genius sociopaths.
Consider this: a fat ugly girls cunning and planning and scheming has never worked on you because you have never given her the access, means or excuse to do so.
The vast majority here have been stung because they fell for a womans beauty. Nothing more.
SexdictatorLucifer 6y ago
A woman assumes power through her influence over a powerful man. Their power is shrouded, which is Machiavellian. The "no claim to power throughout the ages" is a trick they use to gain more power. From the manipulated man: The "weaker" sex holds all of the aces.
Beauty is only a catalyst for manipulation. These men most definitely fell into a womans Machiavellian frame, their beauty just made it easier. Furthermore, beautiful women develop Machiavellian traits to a higher degree, which is why they seem stupid. They've put all of their eggs in one basket because they can.
My writing does almost tip a hat to "the feminine mystique" which was not intended. Women aren't mysterious, but they are effective and ruthless in getting what they want.
eslong 6y ago
That is most humans my friend
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SexdictatorLucifer 6y ago
A master salesman can't take advantage of you when he has nothing to sell. But when he does, do you blame the product or the salesman? Maybe you're giving a wet hole too much credit.
p3n1x 6y ago
The manipulative strength of men and women is equal. We just deploy different tactics based on our strengths/weaknesses and biology. Overt vs. covert and so on and so on and so on.
Stop willfully giving power to something that doesn't need it.
An alpha woman surrounds herself with what she needs, so, an "ugly" alpha girl can have just as many orbiters as a "hot" beta chick.
You seem blind to the males that have used them against you.
le_wolfe 6y ago
Those who make a show of innocence are the least innocent of all. Feigning "no claim to power" really is to seem dumber than your mark.
As far as the myth of "feminine mystique" os concerned see Rollo's post on the same: https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/07/the-feminine-mystique/
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SirKolbath 6y ago
Not only do I agree with you, the reality is that if women were as cunning and effective as OP claims, there would have been at least one society in history that was controlled by women exclusively.
Matriarchal societies are a pipe dream of feminazis. Not one - not one single - ancient society was ever controlled by women. The only reason women hold political power in modern societies is that men willingly chose to step aside and give it to them. (They fucked up.)
Women are not even "subtly manipulating things from behind the scenes." Women aren't that clever as a rule.
Entropy-7 6y ago
Some native American tribes were matriarchal but that is about it.
Women only have the vote because men gave it to them. Some Scandinavian countries have laws (passed by men) dictating a minimum number of women that must be elected to the national legislature.
Women generally are not cut out for the rough-and-tumble necessary to achieve positions of power and leadership. (most men aren't either)
BluepillProfessor 6y ago
When women assume power they ALWAYS turn the society into a seething shithole. Witness the inner city in America for examples of what happens when women have all the power and when "Mother's Day" means the putative fathers line the streets to get half of the Welfare Checks "cuz dat baby be mine too so you don't get all dat money."
So in history women have taken over several societies and turned them into matriarchies. You don't hear about them much because they are conquered almost immediately by fitter and more worthy civilizations.
RedPilledRoaster 6y ago
Have you read the sidebar? No.
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BluepillProfessor 6y ago
Women get power through manipulating men, not by assuming important positions. In the game of manipulating men, women are truly Machiavellian and preternaturally skilled.
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gELSK 6y ago
// , Machiavellian behavior is contextual, though.
Let's say I apply Machiavellian behavior to social sphere A, but not smaller (3 person) social sphere B. Does that make me Machiavellian, or not?
Likewise, women apply Machiavellian behavior to smaller social contexts, although the contexts in which they are encouraged to apply it are, I suspect, broadening.
I think BPP's made his point, that women are more likely than men to employ Machiavellian behaviors in intersex relationships due to anisogamy and the effects of estrogen.
banjew 6y ago
Got huge oneitis with a girl that was, at most, a 7.
But she knew how to play the "I love you, I will be everything you want, we could have so many projects together!" card very well, and I fell.
CQC3 6y ago
Weird how they say guys will do anything to get laid. Women will literally be anyone to get what they want out of you too.
Pope_Lucious 6y ago
"Where there is neither love nor hate, A woman's game is mediocre." -Friedrich Nietzsche
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Auvergnat 6y ago
OP did not say "mysterious", he said "innate Machiavellian", which is defined as "cunning, scheming, and unscrupulous".
It's quite obvious to every man with red pill awareness - and to a lot of men without, and to all women themselves - across all cultures that OP is right. Achieving their ends through deceit (lying, crying), scheming (social shaming) and all of it without scruples (branch swinging) is characteristic of their behavior on average and compared to men.
The reason they haven't "assumed heights of power a long time ago" is the same as the reason why 99% of star coders at Google are men: First, women on average lack interest in assuming power the way of men. Most of their Machiavellianism is on the service of Hypergamy: always be securing better genes and better resources from men. Second, men are still over-represented at the edges of the bell curve. That is, even if women are on average more Machiavellian than men, the ones who achieve the height of power will be the most Machiavellian of all: men.
And as for your example of fat ugly girls, it's irrelevant. Of course if you don't have a levererage to manipulate someone, it will be more difficult to manipulate him. But that has nothing to do with your natural skills in manipulation to start with.
You seem to think that saying "women are natural Machiavellian" is somehow "putting them on a pedestal", and since you don't want to do that, you declare they're not Machiavellian. And in one large brush stroke, you decide it's not worth exploring how women are so good at starting crying to elicit men's care at the exact moment things are starting looking bad for them.
buddhadarko 6y ago
This is absolutely correct.
Women are indeed innately Machiavellian. They use tactics that can be found in The Prince, as well as laws from The 48 Laws of Power. Only difference is they could never, ever explain to you what they do. They may describe their actions, but they could never write down exactly how to know when to use a certain tactic, and when to push/pull to manipulate the tension/desire of the other person towards you. They just fucking do it. They feel it and they do it. And many men are blinded by their behavior because they aren't aware.
If you are aware, then you can dodge her shit without appearing to be trying to do so (which is really important).
Remember: Women were born in the covert, you merely adopted it.
CQC3 6y ago
I think that's why the feminine mystique even exists as a concept. Women largely operate on a feelz level and that includes their innate abilities for manipulation. This makes them very efficient and proficient at it, but I think ultimately the more procedural and systematic learning of that behavior that men typically use (actually breaking it down into principles) lends itself to a higher "end game" we'll call it.
It means men are less proficient at it, but if learned well, can become better at it than most women.
I will make a concession though, women who are top tier manipulators and also attractive are god damned terrifying. There is a smoothness and charm to these women that is incredibly powerful. The ability with which some of these women can play their part is scary. Think of somebody like Cleopatra from Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra, how much mayhem did that bitch cause with her allure and ability? I have no doubt people like that exist, and they wear on even the strongest men. We are, after all, human.
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[deleted] 6y ago
You’re assuming they’d rather have power than leach off a man slaving to maintain it.
hamsterenema 6y ago
This is 100% correct. Hell I don't even need beauty, I can be hypnotized by a bubble shaped ass. They have the power we give them.
[deleted] 6y ago
I don’t think it’s one sided for the RP male or alpha at all. The stability of your frame and mission can diminish most anything a woman throws your way. Patience, consistency through her emotional up and downs, power in your physical presence.
It has nothing to do with how hot she is.
If anything, the hotter she is, the more power you have to control her sense of value in terms of beauty, compliments, long term devaluation with age, teasing, etc.
SexdictatorLucifer 6y ago
Somewhat contradictory. You state that male SMV is power in a relationship but female SMV (beauty) is not. Her SMV definitely gives her more weight to throw around in a relationship and she knows it. Especially as it approaches your own.
If your point is just "be alpha enough and she will submit," than yes, I agree with you.
[deleted] 6y ago
In an LTR the leverage is different.
Her SMV / beauty devalues with time, her submission increases with time, while your dominance both socially and in the relationship as a male goes up.
BluepillProfessor 6y ago
You were right about everything except that. In many cases they get more ball busting, louder, and more obnoxious with each passing year.
Creakic 6y ago
lol , the exact opposite is true , her submission decreases with time .
Framefame 6y ago
Has a woman ever asked you for relationship advice? They don't know what the fuck they're doing when attracting a man, nor do they know what they want. No need to pedestalize them, will only hurt your mindset and by extension your results with women.
gELSK 6y ago
// , You don't have to know what you do to do it.
If you're doing something, not knowing that you do it makes it much harder to stop that behavior.
Many women avoid knowledge of their patterns of behavior.
They are looking for some kind of "plausible deniability." They use this in their mind's internal "court" to assuage the guilt that their super-ego would otherwise apply.
This active avoidance of recognizing behavior patterns in oneself is where the term "rationalization hamster" comes from.
When I found a woman who actively pointed out her own rationalizations, it intrigued me.
m0rphing 6y ago
I'm a male and I've been practicing Machiavellianism since age 5 too. It's not just the girls who are doing it. The kind of shit I got up to in elementary school would probably astound some of you, and some of you would be like "yeah I did the same shit."
Women have a pussy so they get an advantage right off the bat. But once you overcome that initial advantage of theirs you will be forever above them in the game of power. 99.9% of women have no tools in their belt once you demonstrate that they can't use their pussy to gain power over you.
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m0rphing 6y ago
Of course you don't know what Machiavellianism is when you're 5, but you can live it without being aware of the word.
DontHateNegotiate 6y ago
Can confirm this is true, I figured out the game at like 10 and I had no idea what I even stumbled across. I just realised that I only like people because of what they can offer me and if I get what I want out of them, I looked at other kids and thought "do they have friends? Do they have enemies? Are they smart? Are they too smart?" Etc, I only befriended people because they where valuable and not because I like their presence, I wanted the end game which was popularity and pretty girlfriends. It worked too. Then I went blue pill at 13 ish after my empire fell and now I'm starting going red pill again literally years later.
gELSK 6y ago
Cesare Borgia did not know he was "Machiavellian", but the whole book was written about Cesare.
How does it matter whether someone knows that they are Machiavellian?
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gELSK 6y ago
// , I've seen some studies on the behavior of youngsters whose results surprised me.
Apparently children are conditioned, FROM BIRTH, to the sort of behaviors that will get them fed and attended.
This was all theoretical, to me, until I saw the six year old daughter of a cousin of mine wait until no one was looking, steal her brother's toy, and, when he was crying and fighting, gave it back to him, as a way to get him sent off to his room. All because the blanket was too small for the two of them, and she wanted to watch her TV show in peace.
I said nothing, but made a mental note to temper my presumption of the innocence of youth.
It may even be that we're more likely to manipulate at younger ages, and, with more direct conscientiousness and self awareness, lose the innate tendency.
It reminds me of the "click whirr" metaphor that Cialdini made with his story about wild Turkey hatchlings.
Pope_Lucious 6y ago
Lol Machiavellianism since age 5.
Some of these comments are gold.
[deleted] 6y ago
I love the 48 Laws and agree that women are naturally Machiavellian. Part of taking the Red Pill is learning that women see people for their utility more than the actual person
vwzwv 6y ago
if you are a cunt of a human being Machiavellian laws are nothing more than low-grade shitty common sense (at least half of them). Low iq people in trailer parks use them without training. Example, cats claw, dont outshine the master who has weed. Be like others / think what you want.
lBloodyl 6y ago
Trust the average woman as much as you trust your government, occasionally there’s a good candidate, most aren’t worth your vote.
blackedoutfast 6y ago
women are generally more socially competent than men (mostly because so many men are complete social retards). but the most manipulative, machiavellian people are men.
women are just mimicking what has worked in the past, they don't really understand it. they are good at it as long as they stay in their comfort zone and do the same basic thing over and over. a woman is good at flirting with betas and getting free drinks because she's done it so many times. but she doesn't really know what she is doing or why it works.
truly machiavellian men who understand how to manipulate other people are far more dangerous than women.
gELSK 6y ago
// , It is more learned, in men, than in women.
Mr-Ed209 6y ago
They're not that cunning, boys just get dick knapped too easily. I think women get more tolerable with age because the men around them learn not to tolerate them as much. To some level all men become a little more TRP aware as they experience life. Could also explain why girls are attracted to older dudes.
I'm reading through 48 laws now and it's fascinating applying the explanations to previous situations in life etc.
I was in a McDonalds a few weeks back and this group of 16 y/o were sitting in there. A girl and 3 orbiters sitting on the table adjacent. She was going on at length dissing the boys she was texting and how so and so didn't text her back but she saw him with another girl, why can't he be like 'cool like you guys'. The boys sheepishly smiled and took the compliment without realising the backhanded insult she just gave them. I laughed at some RP truths being displayed before me.
This will sound weird. But observing young adolescents you see a lot of the purest male/female interactions.
BluepillProfessor 6y ago
By "pure" you mean "purely exploitative" I assume. That is what I see when I watch teenage boys and girls interact. The girls are literally worhshpped as godlike beings. The boys can be joking and teasing and a respectful silence will IMMEDIATELY ensue when a girl walks into the room. Most of the boys will even bow their heads and all of them will have downcast eyes like they are in the presence of royalty. The "Real Alphas" will look up fairly quickly and look at the girl but most of the boys will keep their eyes down, and only look at the girl when she is walking away.
It is so sad.
killermike-el-P 6y ago
A few alphas and lots of betas. 80/20 rule. More female than male ancestors. Nature. Nature may not be nice but it's pure.
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Andgelyo 6y ago
Man, you’re giving too much power to these broads. Hoes ain’t shit.
P.S. that’s why if you were smarter you wouldn’t even had LTRed a parasite like her.
SexdictatorLucifer 6y ago
Analyzing an opponents power is a pre-requisite to final victory. "Hoes ain't shit" will give you an attractive mindset and is healthy for us all to tell ourselves sometimes, just as a general will scorn the enemy to his troops before a battle. But if that is your core mindset, you will inevitably leave yourself completely defenseless to infiltration you won't even be aware of.
Trust me, a woman's favorite target is an Alpha who is unaware and high off his own shit. That's why most of the "natural" alpha's from your high school are now fat and in shitty marriages.