So my dad, we'll call him Bill, used to be a car salesman. He tells me this story of two of the first clients he ever had. A guy came in to the dealership to sell his car. My dad brought the client into his office and sat them down, went over the paperwork, then took the information to the manager to get an offer for the client. His manager said, "offer them $2000."
The vehicle was obviously worth more than $2000, but my dad didn't question the offer, he went back to the client and offered $2000. The client, outraged, stood from his seat in a hostile manner. My dad responded with a similarly hostile stance and said, "if you don't like it leave!" The client left.
My dad's manager came into his office and said, "what went wrong Bill?"
"He took a threatening posture!" my dad responded.
"No, Bill, that's what went right. If our clients aren't becoming hostile because our offer is too low, then our offer wasn't low enough. Next time this happens, I want you to do two things. First, when he stands in a hostile manner, I want you to set everything down, lean back in your seat, like your totally comfortable, and look at him as if he just did something nasty and disgusting. Look at him like he should be embarrassed. I promise you Bill, the client will sit back down and listen to you. Second, when he sits back down, take his side. Make me look like the bad guy, then reason with him. Offer him a new low ball, but make it seem like I'll be peeling over for it. Now, when you do this, it's important that you never use the word "but." It will turn them off, so if you ever feel the need to use the word "but," use the word "yet" instead."
So that's what my dad did. The next client came in, my dad gave them an outrageously low offer provided by the manager in which the client again stood in a hostile manner. My dad did as he was told. He set everything down, leaned back comfortably, and gave him a look of shame. The man literally started walking around the table toward my dad until he saw his face. The man, already on my dad's side of the desk, walked back to his chair and sat down embarrassed. Then my dad made the manager the bad guy, used "yet" instead of "but" and got a car for half it's worth.
The power of shame is amazingly powerful. I don't know a lot about the red pill, but as I understand it, it has a lot to do with the ability to manipulate (not necessarily a bad thing). Thought you might appreciate the story.
Kolbykilla 6y ago
This is a good manipulation tactic but wouldn't work if the guy was smart and held his frame. If the guy held frame on the lowball offer, stated blue book value, had quotes from other dealerships in the area on the value of the car then you really wouldn't have the upper hand. The whole dealer vs customer power struggle relies on consumer's laziness and impatience to get a new car. If you aren't lazy and get your shit together before you walk in to a dealership and you DONT absolutely need a new car that day, week or month you have all the leverage you need. My point is this tactic works on beta men who can't negotiate, but doesn't work on your every man. Source: my father negotiates EVERYTHING, in business and his personal life. He's a salesmans worse nightmare and I got to personally learn all the tricks of his trade.
ssr401 6y ago
Your general point is correct, but this kind of bullshit dominance play is why normal people fucking hate buying cars. The manufacturers are really cutting their own throats by allowing franchised dealers to abuse customers this way. Hopefully the Tesla model of factory owned stores with non-commissioned employees will eventually drive car dealers out of business.
quarantine000 6y ago
I agree with you and my dad agrees with you
lopsidedlucky 6y ago
There's an important point that a lot of people are missing from this post.
Reading OP's post brought memories from years ago to as recent as a few days ago where people regularly try to use almost this exact tactic of shame.
They will slightly push your buttons, you react and they recoil as if you're crazy and shame you into submission. Then they manipulate whatever it was they wanted from you. I see this all too often in the corporate world among beta's and women.
This is also used in the west against men on a regular basis. At this point in society the proliferation of shaming in the western world is how we've gotten so fucked.
Edit: formating
quarantine000 6y ago
I'm glad you brought this up. My father originally told me this story when I was 15. The girl I liked at the time gave me a look of disgust when I told a dead baby joke. I immediately was no longer interested in her as I could tell she was trying to manipulate me and our group even though most of them found it funny. When I brought up what happened to my dad was when he told me this story.
lopsidedlucky 6y ago
Women are the worst at this. So many men are shamed early in their lives and didn't learn to recognize it for what it is, manipulation. You were lucky to learn at 15. I'm sure it helped you out a lot in life.
Some people are just figuring this out.
Parusa 6y ago
Where are you from that it's common for people to become hostile and violent if they don't like your offer for something they came to sell?
Fedor_Gavnyukov 6y ago
russia lol
quarantine000 6y ago
I'm from Fresno, but this story happened before I was born and my dad used to travel all over the place, so I'm not sure where this was.
yomo86 6y ago
This is why knowing the worth of things is importent. Car is worth $5000 instead of the offered 2000, walk away. Same with girls, friends and all other things. Life is freedom when if you are able to walk away with no hard feelings.
kasper138 6y ago
I'm amazed people still fall for the good guy/bad guy car sale gimmick.
Fedor_Gavnyukov 6y ago
just as many as for the Nigerian prince letters. a fool is born every minute.
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
The secret of Game is imitation.
We all as children unconsciously imitate the environment. We watch television and that locks into our unconscious mind and we then begin to act just like television.
The salesman creates a "Frame of Reference" upon which others latch on and imitate.
People are unconscious conformists.
If you see someone with blue hair they imitated that.
If you see someone with a tattoo they imitated that.
If you see someone with a nose piercing they imitated that.
...each one of those things makes no rational sense to do.
Game is to bend reality as if it is Fluid rather than seeing reality as Rigid.
The "skeptic" will always perceive the "official narrative" as the norm upon which to imitate and in the case of a White Knight SJW he will get hostile to anyone outside that norm.
To sell is to create a Frame upon which others step into.
The more secretive (stealthy) you play the Game the better.
There is a Truth:
...since most people are imitating they aren't being honest and true to themselves.
The (truly) honest man thinks for himself and does not imitate.
Shaman6624 6y ago
Well put. So game = frame. But is a completely honest man gaming women all the time then? So the only thing you got to do is be honest. Or do you get better results by learning to put up appearences and manipulating?
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
Game is bending reality as reality is Fluid and bendable.
Objective reality includes two parts... a Rigid and a Fluid part.
What we know as the Rigid are the rules of Natural Law which are absolute and eternal Truths. These are things like "Cause and Effect" that are always true.
Manipulation is the ability to exploit "Cause and Effect" to create a desired outcome.
Very often the "Magician's Trick" involves deception and typically the Game player tries to separate the linkage between Cause and Effect in the mind of his victim.
What the Game player does is convince his target that an Effect actually has a Cause which is misleading and incorrect.
All "Magician's Tricks" involve misdirection and creating false understandings.
To deceive is to trick... to Game the perception of another.
Willkuer_ 6y ago
Honestly, I'd like to see you interact with people in real life. If you keep what you promise it would be amazing.
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
As mentioned in another post here...
Recently I've been overly effected by "big picture" events and this most recent False Flag where these Fake Nazi guys went and pretended to be part of the Alt Right has really messed things up.
I've been saying for years that the Nazi shit is all Fake, Fake, Fake.
Last month I was talking with a Jewish guy who is "all in" on these False Flags and they are actively pushing the Fake concept of the "Neo (Fake) Nazi" as a way to create a phony thing to knock down. It's all staged and so many beta males fall for this trick. No Red Pill guy should fall for the Fake Nazi trap. By the way this Jewish guy was laughing at how stupid these beta males are for falling into their trap. And by "Jewish" I mean Dark Luciferian Zionist types, not the authentic True Torah Jews who get my respect.
When I'm frustrated like this it effects my ability to have fun and socialize.
At times I feel like I'm the only guy that sees these crimes going on and everyone else is asleep and I'm basically screaming that everyone needs to wake up.
This is my own flaw however... I need to calm down and focus on effectiveness.
PantsonFire1234 6y ago
Seriously always thought this. I know people who jumped aboard the edgy train and it never stuck with me. Yes I know the truth about Hitler and certain stances and opinions Nazi's share are very true. But it seems rather autistic to actually dress up as one trying to get normies on your side.
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
http://www.returnofkings.com/128403/9-reasons-nazism-should-be-kept-out-of-the-masculine-right
The Fake KKK and Fake Nazi shit has got to go.
We used to tolerate it, but events require that they are walled off from the Manosphere.
PantsonFire1234 6y ago
They are partially right because it is a peace of the puzzle. Understanding why WW2 was fought and what Nazis initially stood for. But it lost it's course quickly during the conflict and nowadays you will only see skinheads, white trash and edgy kids flaunt that shit. Some ordinary people get sucked in between these three groups and are pray to what they believe are good arguments.
Which they are, but it's just not usable anymore. We need a new rolemodel and idealism to drive towards. Not something old and tainted.
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
You think you know what the World Wars have been about?
Try watching this and see what you think afterwards:
https://youtu.be/U1Qt6a-vaNM
The people sucked in to be Fake Nazis are still misunderstanding the big picture.
It was all a trick... it's bigger than most people can even imagine and the deceptions haven't stopped as we still see massive manipulation and mind control techniques every single day in the Mainstream Media.
PantsonFire1234 6y ago
Everything I already knew, however. There is more though if you keep looking. This is just the veil.
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
David Icke will get you further along:
https://youtu.be/xTReILQ0lv8
...no one I've seen is further past the veil than he is.
PantsonFire1234 6y ago
A quick glance at his videos reveals that he knows some more but he can't frame the entire picture. Which is very hard admittedly. Most red pilled people all focus on their respective fields just like say people who work in STEM. To know the entire picture is very hard and even though I try to every day I am still not sure if I understand it fully. And I learn something new from other people regularly. However, this is not the final red pill.
[deleted] 6y ago
Oh, Icke. Now your pathology is clearer. http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/featured-idiot-david-icke/
[deleted] 6y ago
Why do you even care about that stuff? Its all a game. Choose not to play. The only participants are low iq morons who need something to fight for so desperately they make up a cause. They are a bunch of monkeys. Theres better things to focus on.
Rollo_Mayhem3 6y ago
So rather than tell us what reality is based on what some other guy said, who because he's Jewish, some how has instant credibility, why don't you tell me, how one can tell what is fake news or not? I am talking about the average person. How would they know?
It's obvious to me cable news is all propaganda owned by corporations to influence the masses.
dangerouspangolin 6y ago
how did you came in contact with this Luciferian Zionist jew? And why did this evil man felt the need to explain his/their master-plan to you exactly?
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
It was a sort of accidental meeting.
He was running a bar and hotel and I rented from him because I was in the process of moving into a new apartment.
He pretty much laid out the plan of the Zionist faction within America.
I have to reinforce the fact I have absolute respect for True Torah Jews and see them as entirely focused on the Truth.
The Zionist Jews are so arrogant these days they leak information very easily.
Plus... we got somewhat drunk when he told me this stuff... it's still a very effective way to get people to leak. We met at the bar as a random thing.
"Loose lips sink ships".
PM-ME-YOUR-SEXTAPE 6y ago
What's the difference between zionist and Torah jews?
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
Same as a post below.
Try watching this:
https://youtu.be/NcjO2nNz09k
DrHolz 6y ago
You are angry and bitter because you think what they're doing is 'wrong'. Everyone passes through this phase.
The solution is to change your idea of right and wrong. Read some Nietzsche. Don't buy into the mainstream narrative of right and wrong.
Everyone is playing their game and everything is fair from their point of view. Instead of being stuck in your own consciousness, try to embrace a bigger, more wide spectrum consciousness of people around you. Once you realise that their actions aren't 'wrong' from their point of view, that they're doing what it takes to go ahead in their life, you won't get angry at Jews or feminists or gold diggers or sugar daddies. Everyone is playing the game just like you are and they're doing everything they can to succeed. It's naive and childish to get angry at other people because their actions are opposed to your self interest or they're different from your moral compass.
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
The Red Pill is a sequence of Anger Phases.
You get over them during the Monk Mode times.
The more Red Pill you get the more deeply you are saddened by the state of affairs.
DrHolz 6y ago
Agreed.
Sorrow is definitely necessary to improve. This reminds me of an image I saw on the internet the other day- peaceful, prosperous societies create weak men. Conflicted, war ridden, unstable societies create strong men.
A society goes through a lot of turmoil and instability, then finally starts becoming stable under good leadership, becomes prosperous and smooth, then gives birth to a generation of weak men who lead the society towards ruin, this leads to instability and turmoil and the cycle repeats.
That's why Nietzsche said that war and conflict isn't a bad thing. In fact humanity should be constantly striving to be better and to conquer the weak. That's how nature works. We are made to believe that war and colonization are concepts of the past, but in reality countries are still trying to conquer other countries, but through diplomacy, politics, propaganda and capitalism. These wars are invisible to the naive minded people who are living under the illusion of freedom and peace(Read Edward Bernays if you wanna learn more).
I strayed from the main argument I guess, but I hope this was helpful.
And I believe that it isn't necessary to be sad as you gain more knowledge. To be sad, you need to give a fuck in the first place. Once you accept and internalise the fact that the world is absurd and life is meaningless, you'll stop giving a fuck about anything. You'll feel unbelievable liberated. You can fuck up as many times as you want because hey, it doesn't matter anyways, you're gonna die and then none of your mistakes are gonna matter.
So keep improving and keep gaining knowledge but at the same time, don't forget that nothing matters. That'll take a huge load off your shoulders and then you'll be able to enjoy the hypocrisy of life :)
nasil_boyle_superim 6y ago
Your talking is so irrational and romantic.Conflicted, war ridden, unstable societes doesnt create strong men.They create fatherless children, death, pain. We are not living in fuckin 19. century, now in wars you dont even see or know who kills you. Just a fuckin bomb and dozens of dead people.That is war. Its so fuckin easy sittin in front of your computer in a western society and talk about "war creates strong man." If you geniunely think so, then you are welcome to go Syria or Afghanistan and join war.Maybe war makes you strong too. Im sick of all those unrealistic romantic shit talkings.
DrHolz 6y ago
I didn't say war is the only thing that creates strong men. I meant to say that discomfort in general leads to mental strength with makes a man strong. This discomfort can be financial, emotional, spiritual or physical.
Maybe I was romanticising war a bit. I acknowledge my mistake.
But still, the underlying principle, that hardship is necessary to achieve greatness still holds true.
un-supervised-savage 6y ago
Basically war is stepping outside of your comfort zone. To grow in life you have to step outside your comfort zone(red pill) With no new experience, you remain the same(blue pill).
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
Actually the Globalist Tyranny wants to dissolve countries and create a prison planet where they rule.
More like the Hunger Games.
You should watch:
https://youtu.be/U1Qt6a-vaNM
DrHolz 6y ago
instead of trying to fight the globalists and crying and complaining, I feel it's better to join the winning side and become a globalist tyrant.
Instead of complaining about the Jews trying to take over the world I prefer to #BECOME A JEW and join them in taking over the world.
I used to identify myself with the Hero who fights the authority and chooses virtues over money and power. But as I grew up, I started identifying more with the anti hero or the villain who joins the Jews in their effort to take over the world.
(No hard feelings towards the Jews by the way. Here I obviously use this term as a symbolism which is very prevalent in our internet circles)
InverseDante 6y ago
I am still in the hero phase. It's funny, since becoming aware of the redpill and applying it to my life I actually feel more driven to "fight the good fight" so to speak. I value truth above comfort, so far.
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
https://youtu.be/cKUaqFzZLxU
Mithra9009 6y ago
What's the difference between Zionist Jews and Torah Jews? Do they not all see non-Jews as "goyim", to be regarded as cattle? Do they not all see nothing wrong with doing whatever they please with the goyim? Are they not all worshippers of their tribal war god YHWH/YHVH?
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
Great questions.
Try watching this:
https://youtu.be/NcjO2nNz09k
[deleted] 6y ago
And this friends is why my male social group is dwindling because I really don't care to spend time with them.
I have money and freedom to do whatever I want, but I choose not to be around people are constantly obsessing over 'game' in every human interaction.
I browse TheRedPill because this is useful information, but if you make 'game' a way of life then people like me (honest and intelligent people) will have no time for you.
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
Let me translate:
I'm pretty sure that's what you meant.... right?
Or are you in accounting?
[deleted] 6y ago
True Red Pill has less to do with the ability to manipulate. It has to do with the ability to detect how we are being manipulated (by people, by society, by our minds/emotions) and why we feel shame. In my opinion, it's not about acquiring the skill of manipulation and shaming others, it's acquiring the awareness of manipulation that happens around us and learning to be firm enough in our ground to brush off shaming being (subconsciously) thrown at us on a regular basis
HumanSockPuppet 6y ago
The Red Pill is a toolbox. The skills for manipulating people are inside the box, and available if you want to use them.
Don't make moral assertions about what TRP is or isn't. Just figure out what you want in life and get it using the tools available to you.
CRGRO 6y ago
+1 for advocating sub rules.
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segagaga 6y ago
That's because they are slimey.
TunedtoPerfection 6y ago
By learning how to detect when we are manipulated you are in fact learning how to manipulate others at a base level. The skill of manipulation is inherently amoral. Just because I know how to manipulate others, and other people may use this skill in ways I don't agree with, doesn't make me an immoral person for simply knowing the skill. How you chose to manipulate people is based on your morality, which is something you need to find and base off your own life experiences and attitudes.
[deleted] 6y ago
Exactly. Learning to detect manipulation comes first. Then at that point it's your choice whether or not to manipulate. Just note: manipulation isn't a bad thing- it just is. But when people lose focus on the inner game and just start to grab tools to use, then it becomes hollow. Sure, someone might become really really good at manipulation and manipulate world to his favor. But if there's nothing behind it? Then in the end what does did he really learn about himself?
TunedtoPerfection 6y ago
And all that you described is your moral judgement. TRP ask that you do not assign this to it's principals. As you also said manipulation just is, it is not inherently good nor bad.
The inherent danger of allowing this is new members begin to view other's moral judgement as a property of the discussed action/principal. This may turn them away from a skill or principal they very well need to improve their lives. So by assigning moral right or wrong to a principal we can inadvertently cause harm to others. Plus it, hopefully, allows us discussion of these topics in a much more open manner and debate like manner.
Well, he learned that he can manipulate the world to his favor. I would say that is a pretty powerful producer of an abundance mentality. He probably would have learned the power of charm and charisma as well, worldly manipulation requiring both talents. I wouldn't say those were hollow endeavors.
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WhorehouseVet 6y ago
Illimitable Man is a good start.
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_vend7u 6y ago
how is NNMNG machavelien? i would really like to lnow how you came to that conclusion
max_peenor 6y ago
Chad doesn't manipulate. He's so awesome people are willing supplicants in his circus of chiseled looks. Be that awesome.
yes_we_can_t 6y ago
Please leave the Chad worship to incels/lookism. Looks are fundamentally irrelevant to being awesome.
max_peenor 6y ago
Oh dear god. It's a archetype and a lampoon, people.
What the hell do they teach in our schools these days?
Did I walk into the wrong TRP this morning?
yes_we_can_t 6y ago
I'm just tired of reading incel lingo here.
max_peenor 6y ago
Like I give a fuck about what they copy from us?
yes_we_can_t 6y ago
Since when was Chad a red pill term? It's all about glorifying a guy who won the genetic lottery and doesn't need to do any self improvement.
You're copying them, knowingly or not.
max_peenor 6y ago
It's a lampoon that came out of the early MRA groups--aka a lot of people we share this space with. No one can be Chad, not even Chad.
I absolutely assure you that / r / incels have nothing to fucking do with any of this stuff. We've been mocking the "beta" for decades.
dustyh55 6y ago
I agree 100%
I know it's subjective, but promoting shame tactics to manipulate some one to rip them off doesn't make the red pill look very good.
HumanSockPuppet 6y ago
We don't care about our image as a community.
We only care about our reputation as individuals.
lopsidedlucky 6y ago
Absolutely. To many new people are missing this point
Vizard47 6y ago
People like being part of a group,individualism terrifies them
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dustyh55 6y ago
But don't the communities you participate in (and their rep) reflect at least a little on you as an individual?
HumanSockPuppet 6y ago
Not if people don't know that you are a part of those communities.
dustyh55 6y ago
My personal ideal of being a man does not include hiding what you believe and who you relate with.
HumanSockPuppet 6y ago
Law 5: So much depends on reputation: guard it with your life.
dustyh55 6y ago
Law 5 is exactly my point, I would not like to be known as some one who lies and manipulates people with negative emotions like shame and rage to rip them of or exploit them, but some one who can recognize these games. This is me guarding my rep.
I understand law 38, and I'm not declaring my participation in trp to the world and preaching it's ideologies. I will tell people if asked and will say there are things I don't agree with, but there is positive things to be found here, but I would rather minimize the undesirable aspects I have to denounce.
HumanSockPuppet 6y ago
I understand (and sympathize) with your assessment.
Yet, consider this: manipulation and persuasion are two different words which mean almost the same thing.
We call someone manipulative if they alter our behaviour, and our experience of it is negative or unpleasant.
We call someone persuasive if they alter our behaviour, and our experience of it is positive or pleasant.
Persuasion is just another form of manipulation. Perhaps you know this already, but it is worth mentioning, because so few people understand and appreciate the similarities.
Good. That is your responsibility here as you peruse The Red Pill. TRP is not prescriptive, only descriptive.
There is a method to our madness here. When you understand why we say what we say, and do what we do, then you will know that you have made it.
dustyh55 6y ago
I agree. I do have to work on my persuasiveness, I know that is a strength, but maybe it's me not trusting myself to not stray into manipulation.
lopsidedlucky 6y ago
Guessing you're in your early 20's or younger and have never worked in a corporate environment or politics.
I hear you though, being genuine and true to your beliefs is important. Yelling those beliefs out to the world though, that's a different story. It's understandable to fight against or for something in regards to your beliefs however, you need to be strategic.
Don't yell your red pill from the roof tops.
dustyh55 6y ago
If one holds a certain principal (not hurting/exploiting others, etc) then it's a responsibility to advocate that principal, that is what being a man of principal means, hiding it (I realize hiding it and not preaching it are very different) means you never really were.
Assuming I'm young for holding that belief is like assuming some one is young if they can run a 10k or still play sports. It's not that you grow out of it or realize it was silly, it's still something of value that takes more work and dedication. Choosing to work in an environment were you have to sacrifice your principals in order to progress is a choice.
Moreover, working in corporate environments or politics is by far not the norm, nor should it be, for if everyone was white collar, no goods would be produced, nothing of value would be made and no services essential to living would get done. The only reason they make the most money by a such a radically disproportional margin is because they're in control of where the money goes, not because of the value they provide to society.
It's healthy to live a life where you can develop, nurture, advocate, and live by your own beliefs, without your livelihood being on the line, it is difficult, but nothing worth doing isn't.
lopsidedlucky 6y ago
You're wrong on a man of principal. Just because a man might "hide" his principals doesn't mean he still doesn't have them or never did. There's thousands of examples of this but that's a different rabbit hole.
I know what you're trying to say however, it's naive. Not saying you have to hide your principles but there may be times were you will. You may hamster it away but it'll likely happen. That's part of life.
As for choosing to sacrifice principals in order to progress is absolutely a choice. When your time comes to choose between continuing to get that sweet pay check that pays for your awesome slay pad in miami, that sweet ride and all your vacations versus bending on a small principal, well then we'll see were you stand. It's not that major principal breakers that lead down the path. It's the small ones that are easy to hamster. And that's okay, some principals are idealistic and that's part of growing up.
It is healthy to live by your own beliefs however, being successful requires living outside a silo where you need to interact with the real world. You go find your livelihood that's bulletproof from sjw's, feminists and other crazies. Hope you do find it just don't be too hard on yourself if you don't .
dustyh55 6y ago
True, I agree it is not fully one way or the other, as extremism of any kind indicates a lack of thought.
I would like to think I will make the right choice, but you never know until it happens.
newName543456 6y ago
Sounds similar to Good cop, bad cop.
VickVaseline 6y ago
What does "peeling over" mean?
PillTheRed 6y ago
Dad worked for a shit dealership if this is what happened. Trade values are already done with profit for the dealer built in. You should offer people a fair market value for the car, or risk losing all of your referral biz. If you low ball everyone, and then they blue book when they get home, they are sure as hell never coming have for another car.
Source, top five sales rep for the biggest auto group in the state I live in. Frame is important, but you can't offer shit numbers and expect anyone with a lick of common sense to buy or trade.
quarantine000 6y ago
This was before I was born and I'm 24, so I think your holding this dealership to modern standard.
krotch_vilense 6y ago
Car salesmen are the scum of the earth.
greatslyfer 6y ago
Were you the guy who got shamed? ;)
krotch_vilense 6y ago
I did a private sale. Private sale is the way to go, never trade your car in unless you're pressed for time.
futmut 6y ago
Manipulation my ass...i wonder if it works with kids? Cause no one else would fall for this crap.
quarantine000 6y ago
Well, it's a true story, but I can see how you might feel it's fiction. I just shared it because I liked it. If you don't want to believe it, that's in you. I don't find any gratification in you believing my story or not, so I hope you at least enjoyed it.
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