As anyone that uses internet dating knows, it's very rare that a hot girl will actually send you a message unsolicited. When they do, I always put them at top priority for an actual date. It indicates a high level of interest, and in the past most of the best girls I've met online messaged me first. So, when I saw an unrecognized hot girl's image in my inbox, I was pleased.
Marissa is 31 years old. As consistent with redpill philosophy, I've noticed older women to fit all the stereotypes. They expect more. They appreciate less. They treat dates like job interviews. I was in an LTR with a woman three years older than myself during my mid-twenties (I'm 30 now) and I had more or less sworn older women off after that. But Marissa seemed cool, she was clearly interested, and could have easily passed for a hot 25 year old. Also, I didn't have anything else going on this Thursday night, so I scheduled a date with her at a sushi joint I like.
The date went well, despite Marissa hitting me with many job interview style questions about my life. It was all classic stuff for a woman her age, so I didn't think much of it. She was fun to talk to and seemed pleasant. Dinner was over, I made out with her a bit in the parking lot after walking her to her car, and the night was over. The last thing she said to me was “kissing on a first date? Oh, my.” I just laughed and walked away.
I set up a second date with her on Saturday. I would be picking her up this time, so I figured the chance of getting up to her apartment after dinner was pretty good. Things went pretty much as planned, and after a little resistance in my truck after dinner she agreed to let me come upstairs to drink the bottle of wine I just happened to have with me.
This is where things went south fast. As soon as we sit down on her couch with some wine it began.
Marissa: You're pretty forward.
Me: Yeah. What can I say? I like you.
Marissa: I'm looking for a relationship, not just some sex. The last guy I dated just wanted to have sex. He just lost interest when I didn't put out.
Me: Oooookay... Well, how many dates did you go on with him?
Marissa: Six. He was moving way too fast for me. Why are guys like that?
Me: What kind of guy was he? Like... Early to mid thirties, attractive and gainfully employed?
Marissa: Obviously. I wouldn't date a guy with less.
At this point I had to resist laughing. I could tell by her body language and tone that there was zero chance of me having sex with her that night. I also knew from her blabbering that six dates wasn't enough either. Normally in a situation like this I'd take one final pass at her and make an excuse to leave. But something happened... I had a terrible urge. I liked this woman. I wanted to help her. So I decided to tell the truth.
Clearly nobody had sat her down and explained to her that she was doing it wrong. But she still had a chance. If she could lock down a guy in the next few years she could still have that family she clearly wanted. Maybe I could help her understand?
Me: Listen, you've asked me a lot of questions about why guys do what they do. Do you want the truth?
Marissa: Yes! It's really cool to hear a guy's perspective on all this stuff.
Me: Okay. Clearly you want a relationship, not just sex. But for a guy to know if you're worth having a relationship with, he will want to have sex with you first. For guys it's sex first, relationship second.
Marissa: Not with me it isn't. I have standards.
Me: So you always wait at least seven dates to have sex with a guy?
Marissa: Well... Not all the time in the past, but now I do. I want to see if the guy really likes me. If he doesn't stick around it must mean he doesn't.
Me: The fact that this last guy you dated stuck around for six dates with no sex is an indication he probably did like you. Six dates and no sex will make a guy assume you aren't into them. You're setting yourself up for failure. The bottom line is that the guys you want to date can date women ten years younger than you. Those girls don't withhold sex. You do.
Marissa: I don't withhold anything! I just want to take it slow...
Me: The younger version of you is out there not taking it slow, and she's competing with you for the attention of guys like me. I'm not saying you have to go sleep with a guy after one or two dates... but seriously. You just talked to me for an hour about all the ways I'm not going to get to have sex with you. This is a red flag to a guy that just met you.
Marissa: It's late. I have breakfast with my mom tomorrow. You should go.
Needless to say this was our last date. The Redpill truth did not go over well.
I scheduled a date with Jane on Monday. She's fun, hot, and 22 years old. We were back at my place having crazy sex within three hours of meeting. She just spent the whole day with me yesterday fucking and watching Adult Swim cartoons.
Marissa thinks there is a guy out there that will choose six sexless, and expensive, job interview dates with her over six nights of eating in, watching movies, and fucking like rabbits. I tried to help this woman, but she will likely waste her last chances to find a decent mate and end up alone.
The lesson? Don't bother trying to explain Redpill reality to a woman. Your good advice will be always be ignored, and you will be punished for bearing bad news. Don't waste your date time on women older than their mid-twenties, no matter how appealing they might otherwise seem. The odds do not favour you having a good experience, and your time is too important to waste.
Satchmo84 10y ago
Nice to see a field report that's ACTUALLY a field report. And hilarious how she claimed to be open to hearing what you had to say, but as soon as it showed her how she was wrong, she had an early breakfast and you needed to leave.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
Yeah, I honestly wouldn't have laid it out if she hadn't asked me to. Women wonder why men lie to them so much. A man learns early that telling a woman the truth is a dangerous business.
Satchmo84 10y ago
Very often it's also pointless, if the truth doesn't jive with their feelz or what they want, they'll just hamster it off as incorrect anyways.
edit : an apostrophe
rule_of_law 10y ago
I don't know where the fuck this woman gets off on the six date shit anyways....
Her one possible trump card on the 20 year olds is that she's willing to do whatever fucked up nasty fetish shit I like...
The thing is, if the 30 year old woman actually was desperate for a monogamous relationship, that behavior (which I'll admit might be an exaggeration to some extent) would actually be seen.
Crackerjacksurgeon 10y ago
On the other hand, six dates are enough to persuade a clean-slate 20 year old into whatever 'nasty fetish shit' you like, provided you built enough value around yourself and the 20yo is really into you.
garbonzo607 10y ago
How was this dangerous? You already knew you weren't going to lay her, and you decided to do her a favor. I have no doubt at all that she will be thinking about what you told her. If anything you did her a favor and spent 5 minutes of your time. This wasn't dangerous at all, if anything it was helpful. How can you not see this?
This all reminds me of naysayers who say not to bother debating theists because they never listen they always use fallacies etc. While many times, or even most of the time, that's the truth, that's not always the case, and you never know what kind of a effect your words will have on a person long after the fact. Plus, you shouldn't be debating someone because you want to make a convert like atheism is a religion, but because you want to help them.
"You miss every shot you don't take."
It's a mistake to write off every woman to be like that, as /r/RedPillWomen is evidence that you can succeed.
IllimitableMan 10y ago
If I care about a woman and she's fucking up I send her to /r/RedPillWomen
I've sent one woman to redpillwoman. Lol.
[deleted] 10y ago
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IllimitableMan 10y ago
No change. Don't think she's even bothered checking it out.
ilike2partyhowaboutu 10y ago
ex-girlfriend: "I want you to be completely honest with me!"
me: "you sure you can handle that?"
ex-girlfriend: ":D OF COURSE!!!!!"
me: "ok.. your vagina stinks.. not sure if it's diet or you just wash it with an even stinkier vagina... and I'd rather go to the gym and workout than spend another boring night at your parents...and your best friend Tanya has been trying to fuck me for the past month... ah.. fuck that felt good.. your turn..
ex-girlfriend: http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/kolosigor/kolosigor1010/kolosigor101000046/8112098-crying-woman-towards-grey-background.jpg
[deleted] 10y ago
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somehokie 10y ago
Ice cold.
Jedesikus 10y ago
Alrightalrightalrightalrightalrightalrightalrightalright
[deleted] 10y ago
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AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
I hear this advice all the time and totally disagree with it. I agree that a dinner has a cost risk, but I like to eat and prefer that environment to a coffee shop. Also, there is more chance of "let's have a nightcap" working after dinner than after coffee in my opinon.
I've been on plenty of dates with girls that seemed like they had a few guys going on the side, but I really don't think Marissa was one of them. But, it's not impossible.
vaker 10y ago
Some guys consider coffee cheap. For others a dinner isn't much more of an expense.
NataliyaKochergova 10y ago
Just because someone didn't agree with you and even got angry, doesn't mean they won't think about it later, change their mind, seek out more info, etc. You dropped some information for her, and left - I think it might work.
Never argue the point to the death. Don't blugeon people over the head with it over and over, it'll just make them resistant. Say it once or twice, it's enough.
DudeWithAHighKD 10y ago
I am really starting to like this subreddit. It is raw realist honesty. This is how the world works, join it or get walked on. I have had these values for years now and have finally found people who share them.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
That is exactly how I felt when I found this place. Welcome, brother. We'll figure these women-folk out one post at a time.
NascarWilde 10y ago
You did your best to help her, AlfredTheGreatest. The only thing you can do for her now is get her on the mailing list for cat adoption day at the local shelter.
mabden 10y ago
This is my take.
Marissa is looking for the beta provider type who would be willing to wait for her to make the decision to have sex. In other words if she can't control him, she won't have him.
My rule based on experience:
If a chick is not interested in having sex with me, she is definitely not interested in a relationship with me.
garbonzo607 10y ago
"But I don't withhold anything! I just want to take it slow..."
Haha.
reedrichardsstretch 10y ago
The irony is, that if she can "win" in these little relationship situations, she will extrapolate that as meaning the guy is also "losing" in other conflicts in his life and thus a loser and thus someone she isn't attracted to.
It's a vicious (for them) hamster wheel of rationalization.
DanReggins 10y ago
More than likely, she's fucking someone on the side while she's doing this.
Daddy45 10y ago
Would have loved to have seen the look on her face.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
It was not at all attractive. Kinda like that look you get when you think you smell a fart, but aren't completely sure, and search around the room for a possible culprit. She did not like the way truth smelled.
_whistler 10y ago
The Red Pill: Delivering truth-farts since 2012.
garbonzo607 10y ago
"The stank face."
[deleted] 10y ago
The best interview question I ever received happened before we even got to the date - "How many square feet is your apartment?'
Needless to say I aborted that mission.
opencover 10y ago
The weekend house on the lake isn't very big either but it has a dock.
Hamster bait she won't be able to verify in time. She deserves it for that question.
anon_k 10y ago
Are you in China? lol
Lesic 10y ago
That reminds of a situation when I was a 20 year old student.
I was in a night club having a lot of fun with a girl around my age, that I met earlier that evening. After some time I ask her to come with me to my place. She asked me:"What do you drive?"
Being a poor student without a car I said that I drive bitches crazy... She wasn't impressed
deirox 10y ago
Nice line though.
fuk_offe 10y ago
OH wow, I just laughed out loud in the middle of the night. Thanks OP! That line is epic! SAVED!
ProductivityMonster 10y ago
"not big enough for your ego"
tsudonimh 10y ago
No no no.
"Bigger than you deserve..."
[deleted] 10y ago
I've only ever explained TRP ideas to one 30+ women (and a single mom I was fucking too). At the time I was broke as fuck (English major yo), 23, and still thought I was all cool for dating an "experienced woman who knows what she wants".
I worked as a personal trainer at a shitty gym at the time and as I was in the bathroom after sex, she finds some paychecks on my desk. 7.50 an hr + commission bitch, you're not riding in a Lexus off of me any time soon. For the next 3 days she was pestering me with all these weird questions, like what do I want to become, do I have ambition, do I want to be a PT forever. Why don't I train celebrities. Why don't I go back to school.
I knew something was up. She transformed from a cool FWB with minor signs of postwall hamstering into a full blown beta bucks trap overnight. So being mature and all, I made up increasingly ridiculous shit. Like "Actually, my plan is to sell steroids to guys at my gym. I homebrew them. We will be like Scarface and his wife." Her pestering and shit testing was running rampant and she was constantly withholding sex. Prior to this, I would bro out with her kid and we'd play video games when I was at her house. But then all of a sudden, she is like "it isn't fair to my kid, just don't hang out with him too much, okay?"
This was 6 years ago and there was no TRP. I was stumped. WTF is going through this bitches skull? We had a great FWB situation and her son was getting some much needed male bonding time. Finally it clicked and I sat her down and was like "No guy who is younger than you is going to marry you. Ever. No guy wants to provide for a woman, and no guy wants to marry a girl who has divorced her first husband and is railroading THAT dude for CS and alimony. If a guy has to pay for a woman, they will pay for you when you were 21, not 32. You don't have to worry about my future earning potential - by being so anal about it, you just drove me away and shattered any chances I would want to support you down the road."
She was massively upset, yelled, cried, asked me not to leave, said she was sorry, said I was a horrible asshole who shouldn't say these things. Typical stuff. I told her for her and her kid's own good I was going to break things off and recommend that she date older guys, maybe with a kid of their own. I said "quit fucking guys like me and go fuck someone who is 35+ with kids. You'll get your dream marriage."
3 weeks later, she's fucking my coworker, a 21 year old personal trainer who is spinning 2-3 plates.
TLDR: They don't learn. They just plow on, stuck in their failing patterns, blinding themselves through all sorts of mental gymnastics to the damage they are doing to the people around them (like her poor son). Luckily, I did learn, and in hindsight, thank god I had this experience - if I didn't I might have wifed up my next GF.
[deleted] 10y ago
Never try to save a woman from herself. At least one that is not close to you. (And I mean mother/sister/wife close)
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
I sure got my reminder on that one. The sad thing is that I probably made her less likely to change in the future. If she alters her behaviour now it will be like admitting I was right.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
Who cares what she does, if she wants to end up alone with 647.34 cats, let her. Life teaches lessons, if you don't learn from it, its your own damn fault.
[deleted] 10y ago
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Evers89 10y ago
By the sounds of it, she's already had more than her fair share of those moments. Obviously hasn't learned anything.
She just assumes doing the complete opposite will keep a mate.
otiswild 10y ago
Good.
One more red flag for fellows later on.
ilike2partyhowaboutu 10y ago
I really like how you broke it all down for her and gave her some truth.. and I liked how she didn't get it at all.
Larrea_tridentata 10y ago
Can someone explain to me what "truth" OP is claiming he showed her? In reality she has her own "truth" which is her seeking to settle down and start a family, which OP is obviously not down with. Clearly she has already hit the wall per se and the result is her creating a filter by which to get "beta-providers". If anything this field report shows success on both sides because it's obvious both people had very different goals and were able to cancel each other out through amicable conversation.
alt30313 10y ago
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
My Idea of what's "true": Marissa has set a mate filter that will eliminate 100% of all men looking for casual sex, and 95% of all men looking for a relationship. She does not have enough desireable years left to disqualify such a large number of "relationship guys" on an ongoing basis.
She had a long-ass list of other qualifiers that she told me about in great detail that did not make it into my post for reasons of length. The bottom line is that she has almost no chance of finding the guy she's looking for with her current strategy. She has artificially raised the price of sex near the end of her reproductive life. Thus her ass is priced far beyond a reasonable clearing price and she will still be on the market at closing time.
[deleted] 10y ago
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emptyform 10y ago
Now she'll be pushed towards grabbing one of those nice patient betas who were willing to wait until their 30s to wait some more.
L'Oreal Beta: "Because you're worth it!"
[deleted] 10y ago
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WAFC 10y ago
By dating 23 year-olds.
nicethingyoucanthave 10y ago
She's only 31? Guaranteed she has at least one and probably two FWB situations. She assumes that you do too. From her perspective, you're both looking for the same thing - a relationship and an end to the FWB. From her perspective, she's screening out guys who only want another FWB.
She has no clue what the world is like for the average guy.
opencover 10y ago
So what? It's still true that her choices are diminishing, she has no offers from those FWB to convert to relationships or else she would have accepted.
And whether she knows it or even he knows it, his choices are OK now and increasing.
Maybe this sort of thinking they are smart is why women pass the wall without knowing it. Caught in the intrigue, lost sight of the goal.
garbonzo607 10y ago
Haha, BINGO. The guy must have seemed like an idiot to that chick, if she's even real that is.
LostProsody 10y ago
You got upstairs to drink a bottle of wine and you don't think a 31 yo post wall women doesn't know what that means? This was an ultimate shit test. She pulled the I'm not a slut line to see what you would do. She even told you what she wanted via the story about her ex who couldn't pull the trigger after 6 fucking dates. Women never mean what they say. they don't really know what hey want. Here vagina was telling her to fuck you and her hamster was burning a hole in its cage trying to remind her about their agreement to find a provider. Call her back up and ask if you can come over and finish the job after she tells her next provider in training to go home. Tell her she needs another dose of medicine. Her weekly redpill.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
I would, but I don't want to wake up this girl sleeping next to me.
Whisper 10y ago
Amusing.
Some people will demand that everything they say be parsed without any reference to its tone and implication. They only hold themselves responsible for the content of what they literally said. Of course, humans don't actually work that way.
Furthermore, many people who do this will be highly responsive to the context and tone of what is said to them.
[deleted] 10y ago
This story just sparked a debate with my LTR which really left me with an unsatisfactory outcome.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
Well, I guess you just learned the same lesson I did in a different way. What did your SO say?
[deleted] 10y ago
Me: Tells story hur hur 6 dates, no wonder noone sticks around
Her: 6 dates isnt that long!
Me: You gave it up at 4 and i was within a hairs width of dropping you after 3. You survived for one more date cos i didnt want to dump you over xmas. So yeah, 6 is a lot.
Her: Well i wasnt gonna give it up after 1 or anything, you'd have though i was a slut.
Me: Yeah, and i know for a fact you've had at least one ONS. Meaning you made me wait 4 dates for something you gave some random drunk within hours
Her: Yeah well i was drunk i didnt really know what the fuck i was doing.
Me: Doesnt really matter does it, still makes you a bit of a hypocrite that you try and pull the "I need to be romanced" bullshit with me after dropping your knickers so easily with him.
Her: Hmm... You'd have dropped me as a slut if I'd given it up that fast. I liked you, i didnt want you to fuck and chuck me. I dont do ONS generally, i made one drunken mistake. Doesnt mean i have to keep making it.
Her logic is reasonable. But it still highlights the fact that i was basically brought into this as the beta paradigm. I hasten to say beta provider, she made way more than me when we met.
Does. Not. Feel. Good.
creatineboss 10y ago
You can't hate a girl for hustling, she's just playing her own game and it takes two to play. Don't resent her for it, just learn from it, keep it in the back of your mind and move on.
zyk0s 10y ago
I hope you didn't expect to have another date and/or sex with her after you decided to tell her the truth. Revealing the truth only works when she's the one doing the begging, so maybe it would have gone better if you had phrased it differently. For example "Look, you don't want to give up sex for the possibility of a relationship, but I'm not a chump and I won't be your sexless 'friend' for the hope of something in three months time. So, we're pretty much done you and me, but since I'm nice and you do seem like a good person underneath, I'm willing to part with some bits of knowledge which will hopefully get you more luck with the next guy." It looks like she thought you were still trying to get in her pants, and using words is obviously not very attractive.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
That probably is what she thought. I think the bottom line is that there was no way for me to phrase the truth to her in a way she'd listen to.
JRcanReid 10y ago
So after precisely how many dates does she plan on putting out? I'm sure she has a number in mind. 15? 20? Or is she saving it for the wedding night?
MartialWay 10y ago
For which guy? For the "job interview" guy, yeah, she wants to string him along till marriage. Of course, her physical needs have to be met along the way, so they'll be some badboy loser with no prospects.
ilike2partyhowaboutu 10y ago
A few months ago from the same woman I tried dating:
First date: "I am never going to have kids.. too much work!!"
Second date: "Someday my kids will go to school here"
NO THIRD DATE
imarcink 10y ago
The part I find most depressing is how sex turns in to a currency for women like this. It is the thing they dangle in order to keep you interested.
There seems to be a serious disconnect between the way men and women think about sex. I think most men see it as a fun activity while women (like this one) see it as a tool or a currency. The men would probably like to think that the feeling of it being a fun activity is mutual while it (probably) is not.
This behaviour would be a major red flag as it would only continue to increase in the future. She will end up denying sex over unfinished chores or due to a small infraction of her various rules, which gets back to thinking about sex as a tool.
That's really sad.
It's one of the concepts I have been slowly arriving at and it is very disappointing. I think men are more emotionally and intellectually honest about the act of sex.
I'm glad my girlfriend doesn't show any signs of these behaviors even after a couple of years. I think I'm a lucky bastard.
samsungnewair 10y ago
Isn't one of the tenets of TRP that women are naturally inclined to use sex as a currency of some sort and that men should accept this and alter behavior accordingly?
Perhaps I have a misunderstanding of the community. Can you explain? It seems as though there is one contingent that chastises and mocks women for this behavior and another that claims that it is just part of their biology.
cofair 10y ago
You are correct.
TRP says sluts (women who give up their value too easily) are no good for long term relationships.
TRP is also a subreddit full of guys who only seem interested in sluts. So that's where the disconnect is.
IllimitableMan 10y ago
Time to set this common misconception straight (again):
Full article: http://illimitablemen.com/2013/11/10/dissecting-the-red-pill-part-2-q-and-a/
imarcink 10y ago
Thanks. I was going to respond, but the comment got pretty long and I turned it in to this post: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1uyylj/attitude_towards_sluts_may_be_intellectually/
jagrmeister721 10y ago
Due to hypoagency (women never learning from their mistakes), a failed woman (ie: single woman in her 30s) will keep failing through cat lady status and right up until the moment she passes away. If she had any penchant to listen to good reason, she wouldn't have pissed away her sexual prime. Single women in their 30s are a strongly self-selected bunch; they are a subset of women in which the Hamster is in total charge. Reasoning has limited effect on many women, but these women are essentially impervious to it.
Feminism removes from women the humility to admit error and change course (esp. if the advice comes from men); that, combined with women's inherent questionable judgment (never being 'selected' by evolution for correct judgment), makes female hypoagency that much more potent and self-destructive today.
opencover 10y ago
I think this is right on.
I am trying to talk to some feminist types on a feminist man-hating blog and they simply don't read what I write. They just say I am a hater and all that, when actually my posts are very rational. Just one random shaming tactic after another is all I get from these women.
Occasionally a woman will support what I am saying. And then they turn on her even harder.
jorgander 10y ago
While TRP has a lot of wisdom and should be required reading for every young man in first world countries, I have a few critiques of it. One of these is that it seems to require women to provide sex early on in order for them to be considered viable for an LTR, but vilifies them for it later in life. Basically, how does expecting them to put out early and often not contribute to the cock carousel? Because it seems women must choose between easily putting out in order to be taken seriously when younger, which sabotages their future, or not easily putting out and being considered a prude, making them more valuable when older. Is there any way for a woman to be taken seriously and considered valuable when she is both young and old?
I understand that TRP is about self-improvement and not necessarily the grand scheme of things, and as such a TRP man does not have to answer for cause-and-effect throughout a whole society, but surely we must see that expecting sex is, at least partially, causing the very cock carousel we complain about.
Am I missing something here?
opencover 10y ago
I would add that a girl of say <25 is "taken seriously" because of her sexuality and, to the more rational men, her wifely and genetic potential.
A woman of >35 is hard to take seriously except in her role as honored wife and mother. Current wife, not future wife. Of course she may be taken seriously in the corporate or professional world, but that's not what I am talking about.
If a woman of >35 a single mother men know to stay well clear, so they may honor her as a mother but avoid her as more than a "pump and dump" -- they don't want to be stepfathers. And all women of that age are past most of their fertility, maybe all of it, in terms of giving YOU children. Also, her singleness at that age usually says something bad about her character as a wife for you. She might be great in some roles in society, but probably not as a wife.
opencover 10y ago
It means that a woman won't really get to play the field very much. She should take each man seriously, and in return I think an honorable man would take her seriously, as a potential life partner. If he wants a FWB instead, that should be clear to both parties as well.
All this endless experiencing and playing the field is no way to run a society. Marriage and procreation are serious and sacred, and it's important to do them early too. Grow up! Especially the girls, they'd better grow up. They can do it, because by about 16 they have pretty much all the emotional maturity they'll have later, if they wanted to use it.
It is a trap for girls if they keep doing it like they are now. So they should change back to the old way that worked. If they complain they are only doing it because they are forced to by circumstances, well it's about time women started feeling the cold but firm constraints of reality. Not just men any more.
Sabarot 10y ago
I agree that's a very important question. I'm going to take a stab at answering it. I'm going to apply a lot of my personal perspective, which I realise isn't very scientific.
I think we need to remember a few environmental conditions when considering TRP's attitude towards putting out early:
When a woman is younger and her physical value is higher it's famously said that the top 20% of the men get 80% of the sex. This inevitably means that there's going to be a LOT of sexually frustrated men out there. I was definitely one of them.
The "top 20-percenters" at a young age are often not the kinds of men who are destined for successful, professional careers. Bear that in mind.
I'd be willing to bet that at younger ages though, women can afford to hold back on sex. They're surrounded by young, horny men - it's a seller's market. A woman can make a guy wait through a series of dates for sex, even a "top 20-percenter".
TRP doesn't expect younger women to put out early on a first date. Her sexual economics mean she doesn't have to. But these women choose NOT to hold out. They ride the cock carousel. They can afford to. Their value is high. They're having fun. In doing so they are rejecting 80% of men. And I don't think TRP has a problem with that.
The problem arises when we wind the clock forwards. The way things are in present day society a man's sexual-economic value increases into his 30's if he can just hold his shit together. Thank FUCK for this increase in value, and believe me, I'm enjoying it.
A woman's sexual-economic value decreases into her 30's however. She's about committed relationships now. She's therefore looking for a more stable, emotionally healthy man. (A lot of men at this point would say, "Yeh, some pathetic Beta-provider tool" but I disagree) The more stable, emotionally healthy men she wants now are more likely to have emerged from the 80% she rejected in her youth.
IN FACT, I would argue that these men are not "youth bottom 80%'ers", but rather "youth top 40%'ers"; the demographic of men whose desirability was just below the most sexually successful men when they were younger. They were the 20-40% most desirable at that time, but as a result got less sex.
Now in their 30's their value has increased, and the women who rejected them in their 20's are now on their level. This is not "payback time". But the reality of everyone's value has changed. The youth-20-40%'er men accept this reality by dating the women now in their league. If these women withhold sex from these men, but would fuck the top 20%'ers in their youth on the first date - this is a denial of reality. It is a denial of their previous behaviour patterns and an attempt to relive a high value sexual-economic dynamic.
I don't think the TRP calls upon women to "provide sex early" but rather to accept their past and present sexual-economic reality.
The women I am dating in their 30's and 40's now, the women I take seriously, have to do more than just be there. As well as a timely progression to sex (usually first date, but I have no expectations). They need to be able to, as Henry Rollins said, "Sit me down, shut me up, tell me 10 things I didn't know, and make me laugh."
To be taken seriously in their youth women need to hold back just a little. Other than that they can just be there.
ubrayj02 10y ago
Nope, you pretty much nailed it. Someone's got an answer for this but it isn't me.
real-boethius 10y ago
It is not TRP's job to fix the world. TRP is just responding to how 90% of women are. They ride the carousel and then when their looks are fading go looking for a beta chump to pay for their kids, and to give them a house and alimony when she gets bored with him.
There are some women who are looking for a husband early on and who don't ride the carousel, and there are men who want such women. The problem is that there are very few of those women. They are not looking for a husband at 31, they are looking at 22-23 (like my wife, who I have been married to for nearly 35 years).
gstvtrp 10y ago
Congrats on the wife.
jorgander 10y ago
I agree, and it was not my intent to say we should care about fixing anything. I did, however, hope to get an answer about why many of us don't seem to realize we help to create what we complain about.
slutworship 10y ago
I'm not one of the guys complaining about the girls cock carousel, I prefer a girl who's had some experience before I meet her because I like freaky Sex. Of course the more rides she takes on the carousel the crazier they usually are, but then the crazy ones can make for some fun times.
jorgander 10y ago
I don't really have a problem with it either, extreme cases aside. The only time it's a problem is if she has children or other baggage from a past relationship.
mrust 10y ago
The key feature here is the timeline. If a girl holds out for sex when she is young because she is looking for a relationship, great! We will filter each other out or maybe when I am old enough and she shows many other amazing qualities, I can put up with it. Win-win.
What happens 100% of the time instead is that girls jump from cock to cock while they are young and then create these rules for themselves once they reach their 30s at which point they have a limited shelf life. Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free (from younger women following the same strategy as aforementioned cow)?
So what we are discussing in this particular thread is why her sexual strategy is flawed. There are dozens of sexual strategies - just read the book Sperm Wars or The Red Queen or The Mating Mind.
A common theme in the mating world is that everyone flocks to a particular successful strategy and that opens up a market opportunity to be exploited for people following a different strategy. Rinse/repeat.
TRP recognizes the strategy for what it is and individual members consciously choose how to counteract it based on their individual goals.
The cock carousel may be bad for society, but we are going to take advantage of it, then possibly marry a nice virgin from a foreign land, or forego marriage altogether. Society will adapt by either making marriage more favorable to men or collapse due to crushing debt from supporting so many single mothers.
jorgander 10y ago
I wasn't addressing the OP in particular, but instead was addressing the more general idea that I see pervade TRP; I just mentioned it here as it is obvious.
I agree with what the OP did and most/all of what you say, and I would also have the same reaction, or at least not judge someone poorly who did. I am also a big fan of exploiting trends and habits of society, as long as I'm not an asshole about it. However, were I to screw around a lot when I was younger, I wouldn't then act surprised/frustrated if older women were all "used up". Asking "where are all the nice older women" is the equivalent to the feminist question "where have all the good men gone?". Have all the fun you want, but be smart enough to realize what the consequences will be.
To be clear, I am not criticizing men for helping to create the cock carousel, but I am criticizing men for not realizing that we help to create it.
opencover 10y ago
I'll support you here.
In an ideal world there is just not that much premarital sex. Instead there is maybe a little, but pretty soon if you have a good relationship, OMFG you get engaged and married and then fuck and make babies and raise the next generation.
Rather than extending your adolescence for 30 years and discussing how to make THAT work.
opencover 10y ago
I've been out of the market for 20 years or more, but has anyone tried proposing to these 20 year old hotties? I bet some of them accept. Even if you're so impressed, some of them know that their hotness is perishable.
It's a good test, give them a chance to pass it.
gstvtrp 10y ago
Nobody cares about "Nice older women". I want them young when I'm still young.
You know what's worse than being a slut in you're 20s and then having a hard time finding a husband in your 30s? Being an incel male is your 20s and then in your 30s all the washed up women are suddenly into you.
No, I have to look out for me first. I cannot control how society works, nor should I concern myself about the larger picture or how fair it is or isn't.
mrust 10y ago
I can give you a plausible argument for why that's not the case. We did not help to create the cock carousel. Indulging rather than fighting may actually be a moderating influence.
Imagine a world where men unified to deny sex to women because it was bad for society. What would happen?
A certain percentage of men, say 1%, would defect. We would have 1% of the men having 99% of the sex. Do you think that would increase or decrease the amount of hypergamy compared to the situation as it actually stands today? You'd end up with a few superplayers and everyone else would be playing a losing strategy, but female nature wouldn't change.
Of course man could take a more active approach: roll back history, head scarves for the women, the patriarchy writ large. This could happen and has happened in parts of Pakistan and Iran, but the driving force seems to be religion and are those countries better off for the changes they've made?
Final thoughts:
Don't forget that sexual strategy is driven not only by competition between man vs woman, but also man vs man and woman vs woman.
Arguing that men helped to create the cock carousel is a form of apex fallacy.
The question you posed is a red herring. No one gives a fuck where the nice older women are. The next cohort of nice younger women is already here. The used-up generation only has itself to blame for its choices.
opencover 10y ago
I am certainly not trying to redirect people's attention from the carousel to older women. I am only suggesting that people give the young girls a way off the carousel.
Be the change that you seek! :)
iggybdawg 10y ago
Not necessarily, girls who make good longterm girlfriends and can easily recognize boys who make good longterm boyfriends can put out on the first date and not be a carousel rider.
If she averages 3 years per bf and starts at 15, she'll only be on her fifth sex partner by 30.
A girl who can't recognize or isn't a good LTR partner or purposefully seeks out casual sex rather than committed partnership when young will be well past 100 by then.
jorgander 10y ago
What's more likely than your scenario of one BF per three years, is that there will be several failed attempts at relationships in between each (maybe a lot of failed attempts) that will last much less than three years each, and if she has had sex on the first/second/third date for each of these, she will have had it a lot more times than you suggest.
gstvtrp 10y ago
That's why 3rd date is pretty reasonable for sex. After that and she's really making the guy work for it. If she's 21 and hot, that's a decent strategy though.
Terry_Bruce_Dick 10y ago
Am I an outlier? I may invite girls along on things that I was going to do without them, but nothing approaching a date happens before sex.
gstvtrp 10y ago
You'd have to ask someone else. I don't know.
IllimitableMan 10y ago
http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/law-24-play-perfect-courtier.html
Excerpt:
Now she ain't a king but she's choosing if you fuck or not, she has the power there.
Vidofnir 10y ago
One thing: women much older than their mid-twenties can be fun. Anecdotal, but I just started seeing a girl who's almost 40 (39.5). Sex on the second date, and now her door's open whenever I want to drop by.
culofiesta 10y ago
She is in her thirties and thinks kissing on a first date is forward and wouldn't have sex for six dates?!!
Is this in a small town? Otherwise I can't imagine most guys putting up with that bullshit.
[deleted] 10y ago
Every since I swallowed the Red Pill, I've noticed this quite a bit from women. Either they get it, or they don't. For this reason, I typically shit test with inexpensive dates, first, or just do things where it's natural to go dutch (drinks, coffee, etc).
From my experience, older girls were used to being wined and dined (I'm 23), whereas girls in college were usually more than ok with cheap dates. For this reason, and others, I refuse to date girls older than 25.
On a semi-related note, Adam Levine takes his first dates to McDonald's. Not a bad idea..
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
Haha! If only I was Adam Levine that might work.
culofiesta 10y ago
I've actually found it to be completely opposite. The younger women want expensive dates because they are still princesses whose daddies spoiled them and think they should be taken to wine bars instead of coffee dates but older women have been through all that and are just looking for some fun and a fuck. You don't need to spend a lot of money on them.
Cyralea 10y ago
Depends on how much "older" they are. There's a strange zone that's just post-wall, between 28 and 34, where a woman still believes she has the same pulling ability as she had in her youth. It's not until they're far past that that they give up pretty much most of their standards.
Can only hamster away reality so long I guess.
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slutworship 10y ago
I totally agree I have dated lots of young girls and had some that expected me to pay for meals, and others who insisted on splitting or catching the next meal. It really depends on how secure they are with themselves, some young girls haven't realized how much their pussies are worth.
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Traz_Onmale 10y ago
Sooo are you in an LTR with Jane now or not?
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
Well, I've only known her for four days, so no. Honestly, she's pretty great. I could see LTRing her, but it's way too early to tell.
kborz1 10y ago
i doubt she will end up alone but probably unhappy.
there are plenty of guys thirsty enough to put up with ten sexless dates with her.
just not with the kinds of guys she wants.
[deleted] 10y ago
Wooo! I tell the bitches to fuck off whenever they give out red flags like that. Perhaps I'm an asshole, but I enjoy watching them break down when they become cognizant of their biological clock running out.
rpw_only 10y ago
Honestly, it's hard to argue that her rule isn't working. You were not looking for a relationship and her rule weeded you out. Sounds like it worked to me.
[deleted] 10y ago
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squishy_sammich 10y ago
A bowl doesn't work very well as a sieve, does it.
FloranHunter 10y ago
False negative.
rem0nster 10y ago
It's going to weed out any guy worth a shit though.
rpw_only 10y ago
Possibly. I know I would never create a hard and fast rule like that. But we can't assume that it's not getting her exactly the guys she wants either. She created a strict rule for a reason. Just because it weeded this guy out doesn't mean it's not working the way she wants it to.
opencover 10y ago
The question is whether any guys are available who will pass her filter. They used to be, but if they still are, they are vanishing quickly.
If the filter is working as intended, she may and probably has the wrong goal. Her goal should be to get this guy attached to her and try to convince him to marry her. Maybe even to get pregnant then use that as a motivator. After all, she should hurry to have her babies if she wants them.
Pretentious_Designer 10y ago
nigga this bitch was looking for dates on okcupid, she was NOT having a lot of play.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
Okc is the armpit of desperation for females.
Olipyr 10y ago
Then what is PoF? The asshole?
Vidofnir 10y ago
And Datehookup is the steaming pile of shit beneath.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
I really feel like guys with this opinion are just doing internet dating wrong or something. A few hours of messaging every week usually nets me one or two dates with 7-9s. Have you had a bad time with online stuff?
garbonzo607 10y ago
God damn. I can't say it's better than a bar, but it's not something I'd want to do either. Unless you're a hypersexual or something, just use your skills while you're already out someplace. Eventually, you'll have a few FWBs on the side anyway.
Totenglocke42 10y ago
Ah, I see you follow the two main rules of dating. 1) Be attractive 2) Don't be ugly. For any guy who's under an 8.5,online dating doesn't get you many opportunities at hotties.
reedrichardsstretch 10y ago
Most guys have a bad time with online dating. Hardly any responses to any type of message. Almost 0 first messages from girls. The online dating landscape is vastly different for girls.
Plus, a lot of girls only use it for validation and are not serious about using it actually find dates.
[deleted] 10y ago
I mean, I just don't think the quality is comparable with hot clubs. In any major city, you go to the best club, there is like 50 9s and up. Fully slutted up, full sex appeal stacked to the max. There is like 100-500 women of a "fuckable" caliber, which is like 7 and up. The environment, drinks, friends, social atmosphere screams at them to let go of their emotions and just be feminine and wild. Yolo.
How can OKC compete with that? If I'm horny and I want to fuck a hot girl, how can OKC deliver that better than a club? On OKC most hot girls have completely full inboxes, meaning you can't even get through. Half of them are on their for the validation, like a safe form of gonewild. But lets say you spend some time "gaming them up for a date". Then they are already put into the dating frame and they are already viewing you as "dating" material.
Whereas the club girl, once you put her grinding on your dick, she knows what's up. She knows what's going down, and if she doesn't, 2 feet away is an equally hot girl. On OKC if you get rejected, the girl may take a week to check her inbox and may reject you by not saying anything at all. In the club, you know immediately, within like 2 mins, if you have a chance of fucking her that night. Basically, I don't think online dating is a good model because there is several checkpoints to cross (get her interested in responding, get her to meet up, make the date go well, then try for sex). At each stage, she can flake, decide she wasn't serious, or decide she likes you too much and wants to play hard to get. At the club, there's 3 steps. Approach, get her emotional, extract.
To me OKC seems like a ton of effort, spamming, trying to be clever, etc, for a crack at a few 7s and maybe 8s. Meanwhile, clubs are overflowing with 9s and 10s who you know will fuck someone that night.
Edit: I would, however, be interested to see your online game strategy. I believe I'm pretty good at it, but I'm willing to accept the potential RP that I have a strong preference for cold approach / in person because I'm simply worse at online game.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
I will take you up on that.
Pretentious_Designer 10y ago
I haven't used internet dating since the blue pill days, so admittedly my perception is pretty skewed.
It might be a very regional thing too perhaps? I live in the south, so a lot of girls fall into the uber conservative country girl mentality which is sort of annoying to me. The rest of the chicks I always ended up meeting were tatted up feminist hipsters.
I almost feel like a lot of girls that do online dating are sort of in it for the attention (60 messages a day) but I could see the opposite being true, and it's just a girl that doesn't have time to socialize as much but wants to remain in the dating world.
gstvtrp 10y ago
I live in Texas and that pretty much sums up my experiences as well.
violent_frame 10y ago
Seroiusly, what are you doing? I'm in SE michigan and basically a 6 on the scale looks wise, and I put out a lot of messages and couldn't get many dates, let alone with women I'd like to fuck.
Where are you location wise? how old and what would you rate yourself?
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
I'm in central Canada. I'd rate myself a a 9. Obviously being good looking is a huge advantage, but there is sooooo much online game methodology I've figured out over the years. I get about ten times the replies I used get when I first experimented with it. A lot of that increase is probably due to me being a more desireable age, but not all.
I've been considering doing a post on online dating strategy. I think I will now.
rem0nster 10y ago
I don't know a guy who would tolerate all that. I agree with you though.
AlfredTheGreatest 10y ago
Her rules will surely weed such guys out. The problem is that they'll weed the relationship guys out too, especially the high value ones with options. Take the six dates and no sex guy she referenced to me. From some other details she dropped it was pretty clear that this guy was kindof a catch and into her. I think he just got fed up with her crazy rat-maze of requirements.
[deleted] 10y ago
She'll just weed out guys she would need to please that want a fullfilling relationship and guys that only want sex. Leaves the guys that will want to please her with her putting little on the table. She knows what she's doing.
Terry_Bruce_Dick 10y ago
Except that the guys willing to put the effort in are going for bigger fish. She's essentially cut down her date potential to 0%
[deleted] 10y ago
With the way guys are, there's gotta be a sucker somewhere just for her.
Terry_Bruce_Dick 10y ago
There are a lot of cat ladies out there.
Dasugo 10y ago
Not really. She might be more Redpill than you give her credit. She doesn't want to put out. That is her prerogative. In fact, I commend her for that.
You had no inclination or desire for a relationship. You made it clear.
You 2 were incompatible. She moves on to the next guy that considers her worth waiting for and without sexing OP and regretting it.
No telling what her past was like but waiting more than 6 dates is a good way to remove the guys that want to bang and ninja vanish.
Even if men want sex before relationships, it isn't in her best interests to give you sex and then hope he wants to date You.
Not good odds for most women.
vaker 10y ago
You're partially right, but wrong overall.
She did weed out OP successfully. But keep in mind that her SMV is rapidly falling. The guys willing to put up with her elaborate filtering process will be lower SMV value guys than what she's used to. Lower and lower at every attempt. The big question is whether she'll be satisfied&happy with those who make it through.
The more likely outcome is that she eventually completely prices herself out of the market and has to fall back on having a herd of cats.
henry589 10y ago
I'm pretty sure if she was redpill then she would be in a relationship by now, and be married. She is gonna hit the wall soon with no relationship.
Dasugo 10y ago
I don't think we can say that yet. She was able to deflect OP's attempt to get sex. OP is off to the next chick but the woman is looking for something more than sex.
Waiting for 6 or more dates might seem long for a guy but it DOES weed out men that want a ONS or just sex out of her.
henry589 10y ago
No i'm saying if she was redpill she would never be in this situation, she is 31 years old bro. If she was redpill, she would already be married by now or is already in a serious relationship. Now she decides to be redpill(?), and decides not to have sex before a relationship, good luck with that when you are in your 30s+. It ain't gonna work. Hamsters gonna hamster.
garbonzo607 10y ago
If she weeds out all the alphas to find a beta that will do her beck and call while she fucks someone else on the side, then more power to her. I wouldn't say that she'd be over at RPW, but she'd definitely be #winning at life in my books. Take the men's strategies and use it for her benefit. She's the real alpha woman and the intellectual.
FinalEquin0x 10y ago
She could've only realized the truth just recently and is now trying to be clean.
We all know this is simply purity under false pretenses. She learned too little, too late.
opencover 10y ago
In other words she is learning the concept of SMV but still overestimates her own.
Given any filter that eliminates some information, there will generally be a lagged response. If she realizes that her recent experiences are better than her future ones will probably be, she may rescue something from the situation. Does she have the IQ for that?
scottyah 10y ago
Dunno bro, she could be waiting for a beta-provider with low libido and high desperation. Then she could have affairs on the side pretty comfortably knowing the dude wouldn't do much.
This has all the makings of a legit strategy.
opencover 10y ago
Counting on the opponent to make a mistake is a bad strategy at chess.
Is it better at dating?
Terry_Bruce_Dick 10y ago
It may be a strategy, but that's a pretty shitty person's strategy.
Terry_Bruce_Dick 10y ago
So she succeeded in getting herself disqualified from OP's possible LTR group, meaning that she failed at her goal.
Dasugo 10y ago
Ummm no. OP didnt indicate that he was looking for a LTR.
Terry_Bruce_Dick 10y ago
Perhaps I read into it too much, but he wouldn't have bothered explaining or second dating if he was looking for a pump-and-dump.
[deleted] 10y ago
Nice. Another thing to learn would be that interviews are a huge red flag.
Seriously. You go out to have fun with some charming stranger, not hammer out a deal for business. Oh wait...
heist_of_saint_graft 10y ago
A woman's pussy is her business.
Marisa is trying to wrest value out of a rapidly depreciating asset. OP's sensible business advice was ignored.
henry589 10y ago
Lol shoulda left and said, you'll understand what I mean when you are 35, and all you have are cats.
Sabarot 10y ago
My kingdom for a time machine.
SPESHALBEAMCANNON 10y ago
Being petty with a woman can only do you harm. That is unless you like rape accusations.
rule_of_law 10y ago
Well let's be real. A false rape accusation is too much trouble for her to pull on some random guy she met online who said something she didn't like. There's normally some history between them behind it, or something she stands to gain...
Olipyr 10y ago
Never assume that. Ever.
qualia00 10y ago
Hahaha. She'll have feminism to thank for that.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
But she will blame all of us. Sweet delicious blame.
recoveringdeleted 10y ago
It's your fault for not being attracted to her petty games and rapidly diminishing attractiveness! Damn you men!
culofiesta 10y ago
I used to think the cat thing was a joke until I saw all the women upset that the cock carousel slowed down were getting cats
opencover 10y ago
Guys are cats, girls are dogs. (Personality and "natural vibe" wise.)
So if you're a guy, game is "cat" vibe, independent, unattached, the opposite of "man up".
It also explains why older women get cats. They are guy-substitutes. And guys get dogs, harem-substitutes.
Terry_Bruce_Dick 10y ago
That's not completely fair. Some of them have dogs.
Vidofnir 10y ago
An older chick I've started seeing has two cats. I think that's the limit, if cats >= 3, then she's officially a crazy cat lady.
Terry_Bruce_Dick 10y ago
I dunno. Cats are awesome. The crazy cat lady is a package, and the cats themselves are not a guarantee that she's a cat lady. However, they are an indicator that she may be.
Whisper 10y ago
There's no point in hurting someone's feels unless they can learn from it. This is why it often makes sense to be harsher with women who almost get it than ones who are completely hamster-ridden.
The former can be helped. The latter should just be avoided.
Modified_Hackware 10y ago
Yeah I had to kind of brutalise this girl over on /r/theredpillwomen the other day.
Think I achieved break through though.
garbonzo607 10y ago
That's pretty misogynistic, and that's not what TRP is about. Men lead TRP relationships, but that doesn't mean it's better than other relationships that also work.
And why you would choose an incredibly stupid girl to represent the whole female sex is beyond me. Do you honestly believe women are incapable of learning to dox-proof themselves?
Otherwise good job, and you didn't have to do that, yet you did on your own time.
Whisper 10y ago
RPW is a mixed bag. I was awarded bestof2013 and then banned. For what amounted to the same opinion.
garbonzo607 10y ago
There's some mod over there abusing her powers. I got banned to for some petty crap. Glad to know I'm not the only one. I swear it's worse than SRS and it needs dealt with.
Care to find that comment that got awarded?
Whisper 10y ago
http://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1j0n7t/the_slut_and_how_not_to_be_one/
The basic idea is, you don't magically become a keeper by closing your legs. You have to cultivate femininity and relationship value so the next man you bed doesn't want to leave.
The reason sluts have high partner counts is not that they gave it up too easy, but that their partners move on afterwards, meaning that the next time they sleep with someone, it increases their partner count again.
garbonzo607 10y ago
Thanks.
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phathack 10y ago
Marissa needs to stop dating younger men and start looking for an older beta. She will probably be his second wife. If thats not what shes looking for too late she should of made that decision 5-10 years earlier.
liuetenantwaffleiron 10y ago
I don't see how Marissa could have spared herself from condemnation here- If she won't put out for x-number-of dates, she's criticized for not being realistic about men's needs. (Not an unfair criticism.) But if she DOES have sex on the first date, she's be exposing herself to criticism of riding the Carousel so close to the Wall. (Again, that wouldn't be an unfair criticism.)
It seems to me that she knows what she wants, i.e. a LTR, and she acting on the understanding that having sex 'too early' will lower her Value in a man's eyes. Her strategy worked, too, in that she weeded out OP as a candidate for a LTR, and doesn't look like a slut. (It remains to be seen if it weeds out ALL men...) But OP's strategy worked as well, (though IMHO one shouldn't tip one's TRP hand. Ever) in the sense that he quickly learned that Marissa's not a good candidate for what HE wants. Win-win. To an extent.
Jane fucked OP within three hours; Marissa held out. Which of them would YOU rather have a LTR with? Marissa may have acted just as Jane did at her age, so now she's applying her own game to preserve the Value she has in order to get the LTR that she wants. I can respect that.
opencover 10y ago
I would rather have a LTR (marriage) with Jane. She gives 10 years more of hotness, 10 years less of other men for comparison and memories, and 10 years of her best fertility and young energy for being a young mother.
Extremely easy question.
steadymotion 10y ago
I agree that this particular exchange between OP and Marissa was Win-Win. I also think that in the past Marissa must have found herself in a lot of Lose situations in order to end up where she is. If she wasn't interested in a LTR with all of the guys she fucked during her 20s, but then she changed her mind in her 30s to look for a LTR, then that means she would have been playing the wrong strategy the whole time (since women's sexual value decreases with time). She should've been looking for a LTR when her value was at its highest. At this point she's just trying to make the best of a bad situation.
riskrowe 10y ago
Artificially raising the price doesn't make the goods more valuable, it just means customers will shop elsewhere. If she really wants a satisfying LTR she needs to work on being a good girlfriend. She wants a top quality guy to settle down with but she's not going to get that with her current mentality of entitlement, at best she'll get a sex-starved beta provider who she constantly has to control and who she never respects.
Top quality guys have their choice of women, so she needs to provide a lot of extra value if she's going to get a top quality guy to settle down with her. She needs to stay fit and attractive for many more years, she needs to learn how to cook and clean and look after the house, she needs to learn how to make a man feel respected and valued, she needs to tone down the bitchiness and manipulation, she needs to stop using sex as a tool, and most of all she needs to realise her position in the Sexual Marketplace and be humbled.
It sucks being a 30+ single woman, she had over 10 years of youth and attractiveness to find a quality man and settle down but she missed the boat because she was preoccupied with either her career or the cock carousel. She demands that a guy wait, but she ain't worth waiting for. The truth hurts.
opencover 10y ago
It's not clear that there is a good solution at this point. The solution was for her to get off the carousel well before the wall.
It's not a man's problem to rescue her.
real-boethius 10y ago
The time to do this is not when your SMV is rapidly declining, but much earlier. No doubt she rode the carousel for years, doing all sorts of baaad things with all sorts of bad boys. Now she wants to settle down she is getting fussy about when and what she will do.
If you marry her, you need to be ready for a starvation diet of un-hot sex.
10J18R1A 10y ago
As I tell women, guys are patient. We'll see what it takes top hook up, but don't expect that just because he's patient with you, he's not out there beating cheeks. If you want to have sex, do, if you don't, don't, but bartering your pussy for time and attention and dates makes sex the focal point, the very thing they're trying to avoid.
slcjosh 10y ago
this is exactly why i dont "date women" until ive been inside them. Saves me ass loads of money, i dont waste any fucking time, and If i do decide to go on a date, i know im definitely getting laid. It might reduce my amount of "dates" but really most dating is pointless as shit any how.
I find it interesting she was so withdrawn. As a 21 year old college i kid met and slept with a couple of older women, and it was quite easy. All i had to do was be honest with them, tell them it was a fantasy of mine, and that i wasnt looking to date them, just casual fun.
worked on 2/3 of the older women i interacted with that i had a sexual attraction too. Who knows, maybe they liked the idea of bedding a younger dude too, and i was just benefiting from their "fetish" as well.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
I don't date them, I fuck them, then they go home.
slcjosh 10y ago
amen brother
RG68 10y ago
even better, fuck at her place!
Procean 10y ago
I'm amazed that she doesn't sleep with a guy after six dates (probably 2-3 months of time), and she is somehow surprised that this guy may conclude 'she's not that into me but she likes to have dinner bought for her'.
[deleted] 10y ago
I can't completely agree with this. I explained RP philosophy to a girl who was initially very hesitant and now we're FWB's .. then again it could be an age thing (i'm in my early 20's)
FloranHunter 10y ago
That was incredibly mild for RP knowledge and she still shut down.
captshady 10y ago
Soon she'll hit 40, be giving it out to anything willing, and will be staring at the ceiling while getting pumped by a guy she hardly knows, and realizing that guy she met 10 years ago, was right. Then she'll probably start crying.
MockingDead 10y ago
I think cougars are good for new Red Pillers. If you've been beta your whole life, cougars can take the edge off while you get in shape.
It's like the circle of life. Hakuna Matada.
Madkids23 10y ago
It seems that every time I read a post on here, things make more and more sense. Hopefully at my age, this will help me in the long run. Thank you for contributing to the intelligence and realization of our relatively small society.
real-boethius 10y ago
A thousand times this.
FortunateBum 10y ago
Obviously. I think speaking your mind is perhaps not wise in almost any IRL situation.
redpillphd 10y ago
Exactly. People always talk about education as the cure to all problems - you know, "If they just knew what I know..."
But the truth is, education is a lot more subtle than that. In our society we have a set of sexual norms that is by and large set by the feminist agenda. TRP is a counterculture with its own set of (IMO much more valid) norms. You can't force someone to accept a set of beliefs. The only way they'll do that is if they see for themselves that they are true. The more girls RP guys get, the more girls will talk about it, and eventually a RP culture will develop among women.
Results? Women will fuck more RP guys. Women will fuck fewer BP guys. Win-win-win.
imarcink 10y ago
This is probably the most important part of this community. Un-teaching men the lessons that are designed to make you in to one of the miserable, mindless beta providers of the world.
riskrowe 10y ago
That's what happens now... tingles take care of that.
An increase in the number of RP women though, now that would be progress.
redpillphd 10y ago
I meant more and fewer relative to now.
pony1108 10y ago
If you had better game you would've hit that.. If not on second date then by 4th.. I've also encountered plenty of hot YOUNG women who don't put out right away... Nor wait forever, but they only do it with people they are comfortable with ( people with game)