Nice to see a field report that's ACTUALLY a field report. And hilarious how she claimed to be open to hearing what you had to say, but as soon as it showed her how she was wrong, she had an early breakfast and you needed to leave.

[deleted]

Just because someone didn't agree with you and even got angry, doesn't mean they won't think about it later, change their mind, seek out more info, etc. You dropped some information for her, and left - I think it might work.

Never argue the point to the death. Don't blugeon people over the head with it over and over, it'll just make them resistant. Say it once or twice, it's enough.

I am really starting to like this subreddit. It is raw realist honesty. This is how the world works, join it or get walked on. I have had these values for years now and have finally found people who share them.

You did your best to help her, AlfredTheGreatest. The only thing you can do for her now is get her on the mailing list for cat adoption day at the local shelter.

This is my take.

Marissa is looking for the beta provider type who would be willing to wait for her to make the decision to have sex. In other words if she can't control him, she won't have him.

My rule based on experience:

If a chick is not interested in having sex with me, she is definitely not interested in a relationship with me.

You just talked to me for an hour about all the ways I'm not going to get to have sex with you. This is a red flag to a guy that just met you.

Would have loved to have seen the look on her face.

The best interview question I ever received happened before we even got to the date - "How many square feet is your apartment?'

Needless to say I aborted that mission.

I've only ever explained TRP ideas to one 30+ women (and a single mom I was fucking too). At the time I was broke as fuck (English major yo), 23, and still thought I was all cool for dating an "experienced woman who knows what she wants".

I worked as a personal trainer at a shitty gym at the time and as I was in the bathroom after sex, she finds some paychecks on my desk. 7.50 an hr + commission bitch, you're not riding in a Lexus off of me any time soon. For the next 3 days she was pestering me with all these weird questions, like what do I want to become, do I have ambition, do I want to be a PT forever. Why don't I train celebrities. Why don't I go back to school.

I knew something was up. She transformed from a cool FWB with minor signs of postwall hamstering into a full blown beta bucks trap overnight. So being mature and all, I made up increasingly ridiculous shit. Like "Actually, my plan is to sell steroids to guys at my gym. I homebrew them. We will be like Scarface and his wife." Her pestering and shit testing was running rampant and she was constantly withholding sex. Prior to this, I would bro out with her kid and we'd play video games when I was at her house. But then all of a sudden, she is like "it isn't fair to my kid, just don't hang out with him too much, okay?"

This was 6 years ago and there was no TRP. I was stumped. WTF is going through this bitches skull? We had a great FWB situation and her son was getting some much needed male bonding time. Finally it clicked and I sat her down and was like "No guy who is younger than you is going to marry you. Ever. No guy wants to provide for a woman, and no guy wants to marry a girl who has divorced her first husband and is railroading THAT dude for CS and alimony. If a guy has to pay for a woman, they will pay for you when you were 21, not 32. You don't have to worry about my future earning potential - by being so anal about it, you just drove me away and shattered any chances I would want to support you down the road."

She was massively upset, yelled, cried, asked me not to leave, said she was sorry, said I was a horrible asshole who shouldn't say these things. Typical stuff. I told her for her and her kid's own good I was going to break things off and recommend that she date older guys, maybe with a kid of their own. I said "quit fucking guys like me and go fuck someone who is 35+ with kids. You'll get your dream marriage."

3 weeks later, she's fucking my coworker, a 21 year old personal trainer who is spinning 2-3 plates.

TLDR: They don't learn. They just plow on, stuck in their failing patterns, blinding themselves through all sorts of mental gymnastics to the damage they are doing to the people around them (like her poor son). Luckily, I did learn, and in hindsight, thank god I had this experience - if I didn't I might have wifed up my next GF.

Never try to save a woman from herself. At least one that is not close to you. (And I mean mother/sister/wife close)

I really like how you broke it all down for her and gave her some truth.. and I liked how she didn't get it at all.

Can someone explain to me what "truth" OP is claiming he showed her? In reality she has her own "truth" which is her seeking to settle down and start a family, which OP is obviously not down with. Clearly she has already hit the wall per se and the result is her creating a filter by which to get "beta-providers". If anything this field report shows success on both sides because it's obvious both people had very different goals and were able to cancel each other out through amicable conversation.

Now she'll be pushed towards grabbing one of those nice patient betas who were willing to wait until their 30s to wait some more.

L'Oreal Beta: "Because you're worth it!"

She's only 31? Guaranteed she has at least one and probably two FWB situations. She assumes that you do too. From her perspective, you're both looking for the same thing - a relationship and an end to the FWB. From her perspective, she's screening out guys who only want another FWB.

She has no clue what the world is like for the average guy.

You got upstairs to drink a bottle of wine and you don't think a 31 yo post wall women doesn't know what that means? This was an ultimate shit test. She pulled the I'm not a slut line to see what you would do. She even told you what she wanted via the story about her ex who couldn't pull the trigger after 6 fucking dates. Women never mean what they say. they don't really know what hey want. Here vagina was telling her to fuck you and her hamster was burning a hole in its cage trying to remind her about their agreement to find a provider. Call her back up and ask if you can come over and finish the job after she tells her next provider in training to go home. Tell her she needs another dose of medicine. Her weekly redpill.

You just talked to me for an hour about all the ways I'm not going to get to have sex with you.

Amusing.

Some people will demand that everything they say be parsed without any reference to its tone and implication. They only hold themselves responsible for the content of what they literally said. Of course, humans don't actually work that way.

Furthermore, many people who do this will be highly responsive to the context and tone of what is said to them.

This story just sparked a debate with my LTR which really left me with an unsatisfactory outcome.

I hope you didn't expect to have another date and/or sex with her after you decided to tell her the truth. Revealing the truth only works when she's the one doing the begging, so maybe it would have gone better if you had phrased it differently. For example "Look, you don't want to give up sex for the possibility of a relationship, but I'm not a chump and I won't be your sexless 'friend' for the hope of something in three months time. So, we're pretty much done you and me, but since I'm nice and you do seem like a good person underneath, I'm willing to part with some bits of knowledge which will hopefully get you more luck with the next guy." It looks like she thought you were still trying to get in her pants, and using words is obviously not very attractive.

So after precisely how many dates does she plan on putting out? I'm sure she has a number in mind. 15? 20? Or is she saving it for the wedding night?

A few months ago from the same woman I tried dating:

First date: "I am never going to have kids.. too much work!!"

Second date: "Someday my kids will go to school here"

NO THIRD DATE

The part I find most depressing is how sex turns in to a currency for women like this. It is the thing they dangle in order to keep you interested.

There seems to be a serious disconnect between the way men and women think about sex. I think most men see it as a fun activity while women (like this one) see it as a tool or a currency. The men would probably like to think that the feeling of it being a fun activity is mutual while it (probably) is not.

This behaviour would be a major red flag as it would only continue to increase in the future. She will end up denying sex over unfinished chores or due to a small infraction of her various rules, which gets back to thinking about sex as a tool.

That's really sad.

It's one of the concepts I have been slowly arriving at and it is very disappointing. I think men are more emotionally and intellectually honest about the act of sex.

I'm glad my girlfriend doesn't show any signs of these behaviors even after a couple of years. I think I'm a lucky bastard.

Due to hypoagency (women never learning from their mistakes), a failed woman (ie: single woman in her 30s) will keep failing through cat lady status and right up until the moment she passes away. If she had any penchant to listen to good reason, she wouldn't have pissed away her sexual prime. Single women in their 30s are a strongly self-selected bunch; they are a subset of women in which the Hamster is in total charge. Reasoning has limited effect on many women, but these women are essentially impervious to it.

Feminism removes from women the humility to admit error and change course (esp. if the advice comes from men); that, combined with women's inherent questionable judgment (never being 'selected' by evolution for correct judgment), makes female hypoagency that much more potent and self-destructive today.

While TRP has a lot of wisdom and should be required reading for every young man in first world countries, I have a few critiques of it. One of these is that it seems to require women to provide sex early on in order for them to be considered viable for an LTR, but vilifies them for it later in life. Basically, how does expecting them to put out early and often not contribute to the cock carousel? Because it seems women must choose between easily putting out in order to be taken seriously when younger, which sabotages their future, or not easily putting out and being considered a prude, making them more valuable when older. Is there any way for a woman to be taken seriously and considered valuable when she is both young and old?

I understand that TRP is about self-improvement and not necessarily the grand scheme of things, and as such a TRP man does not have to answer for cause-and-effect throughout a whole society, but surely we must see that expecting sex is, at least partially, causing the very cock carousel we complain about.

Am I missing something here?

and you will be punished for bearing bad news.

http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/law-24-play-perfect-courtier.html

Excerpt:

1. Never Be the Bearer of Bad News. The king kills the messenger who brings bad news: This is a cliché but there is truth to it. You must struggle and if necessary lie and cheat to be sure that the lot of the bearer of bad news falls on a colleague, never on you. Bring only good news and your approach will gladden your master.

Now she ain't a king but she's choosing if you fuck or not, she has the power there.

One thing: women much older than their mid-twenties can be fun. Anecdotal, but I just started seeing a girl who's almost 40 (39.5). Sex on the second date, and now her door's open whenever I want to drop by.

She is in her thirties and thinks kissing on a first date is forward and wouldn't have sex for six dates?!!

Is this in a small town? Otherwise I can't imagine most guys putting up with that bullshit.

Every since I swallowed the Red Pill, I've noticed this quite a bit from women. Either they get it, or they don't. For this reason, I typically shit test with inexpensive dates, first, or just do things where it's natural to go dutch (drinks, coffee, etc).

From my experience, older girls were used to being wined and dined (I'm 23), whereas girls in college were usually more than ok with cheap dates. For this reason, and others, I refuse to date girls older than 25.

On a semi-related note, Adam Levine takes his first dates to McDonald's. Not a bad idea..

Sooo are you in an LTR with Jane now or not?

i doubt she will end up alone but probably unhappy.

there are plenty of guys thirsty enough to put up with ten sexless dates with her.

just not with the kinds of guys she wants.

Wooo! I tell the bitches to fuck off whenever they give out red flags like that. Perhaps I'm an asshole, but I enjoy watching them break down when they become cognizant of their biological clock running out.

Honestly, it's hard to argue that her rule isn't working. You were not looking for a relationship and her rule weeded you out. Sounds like it worked to me.

Nice. Another thing to learn would be that interviews are a huge red flag.

Seriously. You go out to have fun with some charming stranger, not hammer out a deal for business. Oh wait...

Lol shoulda left and said, you'll understand what I mean when you are 35, and all you have are cats.

Marissa needs to stop dating younger men and start looking for an older beta. She will probably be his second wife. If thats not what shes looking for too late she should of made that decision 5-10 years earlier.

I don't see how Marissa could have spared herself from condemnation here- If she won't put out for x-number-of dates, she's criticized for not being realistic about men's needs. (Not an unfair criticism.) But if she DOES have sex on the first date, she's be exposing herself to criticism of riding the Carousel so close to the Wall. (Again, that wouldn't be an unfair criticism.)

It seems to me that she knows what she wants, i.e. a LTR, and she acting on the understanding that having sex 'too early' will lower her Value in a man's eyes. Her strategy worked, too, in that she weeded out OP as a candidate for a LTR, and doesn't look like a slut. (It remains to be seen if it weeds out ALL men...) But OP's strategy worked as well, (though IMHO one shouldn't tip one's TRP hand. Ever) in the sense that he quickly learned that Marissa's not a good candidate for what HE wants. Win-win. To an extent.

Jane fucked OP within three hours; Marissa held out. Which of them would YOU rather have a LTR with? Marissa may have acted just as Jane did at her age, so now she's applying her own game to preserve the Value she has in order to get the LTR that she wants. I can respect that.

As I tell women, guys are patient. We'll see what it takes top hook up, but don't expect that just because he's patient with you, he's not out there beating cheeks. If you want to have sex, do, if you don't, don't, but bartering your pussy for time and attention and dates makes sex the focal point, the very thing they're trying to avoid.

this is exactly why i dont "date women" until ive been inside them. Saves me ass loads of money, i dont waste any fucking time, and If i do decide to go on a date, i know im definitely getting laid. It might reduce my amount of "dates" but really most dating is pointless as shit any how.

I find it interesting she was so withdrawn. As a 21 year old college i kid met and slept with a couple of older women, and it was quite easy. All i had to do was be honest with them, tell them it was a fantasy of mine, and that i wasnt looking to date them, just casual fun.

worked on 2/3 of the older women i interacted with that i had a sexual attraction too. Who knows, maybe they liked the idea of bedding a younger dude too, and i was just benefiting from their "fetish" as well.

I'm amazed that she doesn't sleep with a guy after six dates (probably 2-3 months of time), and she is somehow surprised that this guy may conclude 'she's not that into me but she likes to have dinner bought for her'.

I can't completely agree with this. I explained RP philosophy to a girl who was initially very hesitant and now we're FWB's .. then again it could be an age thing (i'm in my early 20's)

That was incredibly mild for RP knowledge and she still shut down.

Soon she'll hit 40, be giving it out to anything willing, and will be staring at the ceiling while getting pumped by a guy she hardly knows, and realizing that guy she met 10 years ago, was right. Then she'll probably start crying.

It seems that every time I read a post on here, things make more and more sense. Hopefully at my age, this will help me in the long run. Thank you for contributing to the intelligence and realization of our relatively small society.

Don't bother trying to explain Redpill reality to a woman.

A thousand times this.

The lesson? Don't bother trying to explain Redpill reality to a woman.

Obviously. I think speaking your mind is perhaps not wise in almost any IRL situation.

The lesson? Don't bother trying to explain Redpill reality to a woman.

Exactly. People always talk about education as the cure to all problems - you know, "If they just knew what I know..."

But the truth is, education is a lot more subtle than that. In our society we have a set of sexual norms that is by and large set by the feminist agenda. TRP is a counterculture with its own set of (IMO much more valid) norms. You can't force someone to accept a set of beliefs. The only way they'll do that is if they see for themselves that they are true. The more girls RP guys get, the more girls will talk about it, and eventually a RP culture will develop among women.

Results? Women will fuck more RP guys. Women will fuck fewer BP guys. Win-win-win.