For the last few years, I have experimented with almost any diet you can think of. From paleo to intermittent fasting, I’ve tried them all. Below are my findings and suggestions. The way I view things, there are only three goals I can have when dieting: gaining muscle mass, maintaining body composition, and losing fat.
From my experience, you cannot gain muscle mass while cutting, but you can maintain muscle mass while cutting and stay at a stable level of fat while packing on mass. Please keep that in mind when reviewing these diets. If you’re training properly, all of these diets should have a place in your arsenal at some point.
Popularized by Tim Ferriss, this diet is extremely simple. Each meal should consist of one protein source, one or more servings of vegetables, and a serving of legumes. The idea is to limit your intake of carbohydrates to sources with a low glycemic index (beans) in order to keep insulin levels stable throughout the day.
This diet is one of my favorites for maintenance and clean bulking because of its east. You can hit up any Chipotle or mexican joint and get a massive meal for ~$8 that aligns with your macros. It can also be used for cutting by slowly tapering off the servings of legumes per day.
With lean protein and fiber from the vegetables and legumes, your hunger is often kept in check. The foods you eat while on Slow Carb can also be really affordable and convenient. Head to the store and stock up on black beans, eggs, refried beans, spinach, and ground beef and you’re pretty much set for the week.
This diet also calls for a cheat day once a week where you can go crazy, pounding beers and eating donuts until you puke.
Good for: people just starting to diet, maintenance, bulking, fat loss (if you’re > 15% BF)
Bad for: losing the last few pounds of fat
CarbNite or Cyclical Ketogenic Diet
CarbNite (Cyclical Ketogenic) Diet is a diet that revolves around ultra-low levels of carbohydrates (<50 grams) on a daily basis with a cheat night incorporated once per week. By eliminating carbs from your diet, your body transitions from burning glucose as fuel to ketones. Ketones are produced by breaking down fat from food sources and your fat stores on your body.
This diet works wonders due to the fact that your body literally turns into a fat burning machine. Low carb diets are easily the best for cutting weight while sparing muscle; they’re what bodybuilders use to get in peak shape weeks before shows. On this diet, you completely cut out any direct carbohydrate sources and focus largely on eating tons of fat with protein around 1-1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Then, one night per week (preferably after a workout), you go hard as a mofo on sweets, potatoes, tortillas, you name it, all to reset your metabolism and catalyze muscle growth.
This diet will get you shredded in 8-10 weeks IF you follow it to a tee. Unlike the Slow Carb diet though, if you happen to cheat on this diet even in the slightest, your progress will be stalled fairly substantially.
Good for: rapid fat loss
Bad for: bulking
Carb back loading is the perfect diet to follow after a cycle on CarbNite. Carb backloading is essentially the CarbNite diet, but way more fun. Instead of limiting yourself to one cheat night per week, you now can go crazy each night after an intense workout. The idea is that, with your improved insulin sensitivity, your body is in better shape to convert these excess calories into producing muscle, not storing fat.
On days you don’t hit the gym and in the mornings, you follow an ultra-low carb diet, similar to CarbNite. Though you may be tempted to eat entire pizzas or boxes of cookies at first, you’ll come to realize that the best postworkout meals are easily digestible carbs (rice, bread, potatoes, etc) with lean protein sources. Still, have a little fun with it at first though.
Good for: bulking
Bad for: cutting
While IF isn’t a diet in itself, it has garnered a significant amount of attention in recent years within the fitness community. IF lacks scientific results to back up any direct benefits however, there are significant conveniences it affords.
By definition, IF is a process in which you limit the time you eat each day into a window of anywhere from 8-4 hours. For instance, if you were doing a 16 hour IF, you likely only be able to eat from 2p - 10p. There would be absolutely no snacking before or after that window.
For me, IF was the single best way to measure my calorie intake and ensure I didn’t overeat. IF is also one of the most convenient ways for me to eat. Each day I would eat a massive lunch and dinner with small snacks and almost a gallon of water between them. Additionally, I felt extremely focused during my fasting state, as my insulin levels were steady and low.
Good for: everything
Conclusion
The above diets and techniques are what I have used to get into the best shape of my life over the last 3 years. Any combination of these will help you lose fat and gain muscle, if applied properly.
My advice for beginners: Slow Carb (4 weeks normal, 4 weeks IF) > CarbNite w/ IF (if cutting) or Carb BL (if bulking) (8 weeks) > The opposite of the previous (8 weeks)
My next post will detail the best lifting techniques coupled with each of these diets.
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pho33nix 8y ago
Sounds great! Please post the lifting techniques! I will give it a try. IF works and easy to follow and meal prep is kid's play.
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[deleted] 8y ago
What diet do you do for triathlon? One of my long term life goals is to go to Kona for Ironman
prinzklaus 8y ago
I'm training for a Half-Ironman and I'm doing the CarbNite diet at the moment. I feel pretty good with lifting and endurance. I'll test out how CarbNite makes me feel for Sprints and Olympics when the season gets going. I've read that some ultra marathon runners are switching to it because they don't hit a wall. If it's not for me with racing then I'll go back to Carb Back Loading.
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prinzklaus 8y ago
Huh. Did not know this.
I always thought when the track team or cross country team had those spaghetti dinners, that was carb loading. I always figured they ate carbs constantly.
As a wrestler, I just ate/starved until I was on weight.
Thanks.
Luckyluke23 8y ago
thanks so much for this post man! I've been going to the gym for a year and seeing little to no results ( it's from diet I have the strength gains not the " you like like a brute i want to fuck you" gains)
after reading the comments can someone give me some help on fixing posture?
edit: during IF can you drink water or have coffee if it's not in your " time to eat"
justin987654321 8y ago
Drink as much water as you want, it wont mess up your fast, but avoid anything with calories.
WerewolfofWS 8y ago
Anyone do a SKD Strict Ketogenic Diet? I love being in Ketosis
Kevinfcb 8y ago
There's 2 VERY important things for everyone to consider.
You probably don't need to cut yet because you probably haven't added in enough mass yet. Don't cut unless you have a good amount of muscle underneath your fat.
There's no magic diet. If you want to cut - make sure you eat at a deficit (400-500 cal deficit) and adjust your macros to ensure you get a gram of protein per pound of body weight. Reduce your carb intake to accommodate the protein.
questionac 8y ago
That seems a lot.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
garrettruskamp 8y ago
Being skinny is more attractive than being fat and muscle gains are much more noticeable. This is why I advocate cutting first.
Edit: Seems many of you are lazy and fat dumbasses if you are able to delude yourself that being obese and soft is more attractive than being skinny.
WerewolfofWS 8y ago
You also suffer from SBS - Skinny Bitch Syndrome. It's a real thing.
inmy325xi 8y ago
Skinny makes you look frail, which makes you look less of a protector. Girls notice these things. But if your fat is literally lard like, yes I agree, skinny is more attractive.
sneekeemonkee 8y ago
Lmao. Hard no. Build before you sculpt. Cutting when you have no muscle makes you just as unattractive when you're a fat p.o.s.
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Kevinfcb 8y ago
No. If you lift regulArly and eat 1-200 above maintenance you don't end up obese.
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sneekeemonkee 8y ago
Never heard of this, but its better advice than the idiots pushing a cut when you have nothing to show under the fat.
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Lifting4Gainz 8y ago
Eh. I agree with only Pt. 2.
For beginners, the best thing you CAN do is to cut while doing strength training. Why? Because you'll make gainz regardless as a noob. It's the ONLY time in your life where you can kill two birds with one stone. Take advantage of it.
For a lot of people here, looking good is what really matters. Cutting first helps you look better in clothes than if you were overweight.
Bulking/cutting is for everyone who wants to make changes to their weight. Diet controls your weight. Training controls your physique.
I've had a six pack for a while now and I don't feel starved. ???
Kevinfcb 8y ago
This really depends on he individual. If you're fat - then yes by all means try cutting. But if you're like most novices I see (skinny fat) - I think you're better off bulking and progressing on your lifts. And I'm not talking dirty bulking.
Paid_Internet_Troll 8y ago
I'm a beginning weight lifter ( four months into SL 5x5), and cutting on a no-carb diet, while running ~20 miles/35 kilometers a week, and the flab is melting off while I get stronger.
Two or three 12-ounce steaks per day smothered in pans full of onions and mushrooms fills me up while on a 500 to 1000 daily calorie deficit.
Why would I bulk when I'm still at 28 bmi and chubby?
rodcisal 8y ago
what kind of cardio do you do? Im doing pretty much the same but biking on "rest" days HIIT style
Paid_Internet_Troll 8y ago
I run hills. Three miles before work three days a week, and one longer run of 6+ miles on the weekend.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
This is the fucking cancer in the bodybuilding community, right here folks. People that look like shit and know NOTHING spouting advice LIKE AN EXPERT.
1000%.
An untrained person (You Kevin, looking at your DYEL retarded ass) can ADD muscle by eating a small deficit. When you are that fucking dyel and weak, your muscles respond very well to stimuli. So well, that you can actually gain minimal tiny bits of muscle mass while cutting.
Secondly,
Your hormone profile gets TOTALLY fucked up by being high bf %.
This means more estrogen less test in your system. This DESTROYS the quality of your gains while bulking. For every pound you add on, more FAT less MUSCLE.
For anyone OTHER THAN a hungry fucking skeleton, the IDEAL course of action is just cut slow, wait until you hit single digits bf %, then SLOW BULK once you are LEAN. Because you're lean and bulking, your gains will be MUCH better in quality, more muscle, less fat.
Two. Basically correct, whatever. At least your 25% bodyfat DYEL retarded ass knows SOMETHING.
Three. AHhahahahaha,
So you don't consider yourself a bodybuilder? Maybe it's because your garbage training methodology and garbage willpower and meme fucking 'Eat donuts and drink 1 day a week' 20% bodyfat nutrition is TRASH ADVICE?
Yet you wanna offer advice mister 'I'm not a bodybuilder' on how to look good?
You will end up obese. Obviously. Gaining fat forever.
Where is your willpower? Feeling starved and fatigued? Jesus christ.
If you want to feel full on a cut, just stuff your fucking face with brocolli. That shit has next to no calories and fills you up fast.
I NEVER feel hungry, "fatigued" or anything else cutting.
There is 0 reason for anyone that is training to not have a "6 pack".
You're literally been wasting all that time in the gym. Why show up?
Control your fucking nutrition and diet guys.
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Kevinfcb 8y ago
Ok. We're making some assumptions here.
I'm around 15% body fat if I had to estimate. My purpose of the fitness was to put on weight - not lose it. I am 6'1 and weighed 175 2 years ago. I am now 210 and 60 pounds from the 1000 club.
Most guys I know that start working out are skinny as hell with my aim of gaining muscle. With a LITTLE belly flab. This person should never cut until they add some serious mass. Maybe it's cause I'm in Canada. Literally none of my friends are fat. Either muscular or twigs.
I am not wasting my time in the gym. I look wayyyy better than 2 years ago and I'm wayyyyy stronger.
Eating slightly above maintenance (slow bulk) will not make a healthy person obese at all.
You know what assuming does right?!
Also - why are you so mad man?!
garrettruskamp 8y ago
Damn dude has it out for you
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
I have it out for anyone that offers advice on BB/PL and doesn't have a noteable physique OR impressive total if they are going to offer bad advice
PS: If you've been training for less than 5 years and not roiding you DONT have a noteable physique. If you're roiding you better be real fucking big to offer advice on natty training.
cancerous.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Meaning you're 25% or more based on your numbers height and weight
At 210 lbs? Training for years?
You should not be offering advice.
If you eat slightly above matienece, you gain around 2-4 lbs a month. In a best case scenario (DYEL individual, training hard, sleeping right, never drinks, perfect macros 1 lbs of muscle a month, roughly.
So you're gaining 12-36 LBS of fat a year.
If you never cut, shit, you'll get fat as fuck. Obviously.
Because people that ADMIT to a 15% bodyfat and STILL don't have a 1000 lb total after YEARS of training OFFER ADVICE TO OTHER PEOPLE.
This is the cancer int he BB/PL/Fitness community, is people that look like shit and are weak as fuck that get on the computer and offer advice.
It would be one thing if they had actual knowledge, but nah, they offer BAD advice.
Ok buddy, I'm sure you have some "serious mass" at 6'1 210 lbs with a 940 LB total, just none of it is lean.
Obviously, size=/=strength, but come on, you are training for strength and you have a total that most high school football players at 160 lbs will shit on.
You fucked up big time.
The problem is that you bulked at 15%, for 2 years, and now you're sitting at your PC, AT 25% bodyfat, posting about how hard it is to get a "6 pack"
You fucked up.
The biggest problem:
You are advocating people that have fat on their bodies to slow bulk and gain more fat. That's retarded. They should cut to very lean and then slow bulk for a few months, gain 10 lbs, and then cut down 7lbs of that, leave that process with 3lbs of muscle gained, and rinse and repeat.
The quality of your gains (muscle:fat) Is very, very, bad when bulking when you're fat (15%) qualifies
99% of people in the gym are way too fat to bulk.
Kevinfcb 8y ago
You're a pretty angry person dude. Lay off the Test E.
A) cookie cutter BF estimates based on height and weight are BS and but you know this.
B) I'm pretty proud of my 940lb total. I'm not a professional lifter. 1000 is my goal.
C) I never offered advice as a professional or expert. Just what I perceive to have worked for me and the people I know.
D) maybe Canada is diff. But most dudes at my gym have the physique of Bieber.
That's all tho man. I'm done going back and forth with you.
Have a great day and enjoy those high rep super sets followed by HIIT.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Bro, you need SERIOUS MASS to cut. You think Michelangelo sculpted the statue of david from a pebble? NO! he used a giant slab of marble!
I'm 15% bf after years of permabulk bro cmon this is 15%! You can't get cut till you got SERIOUS MASS like me!
Kevinfcb 8y ago
you guys are all too fat to bulk though!
Kevinfcb 8y ago
Lol. You're an idiot.
By serious mass - my meaning was subjective. A guy shaped like Steve Erkel with a little belly fat needs to put on serious mass. The amount he would need would be serious. Never once did I say I have serious mass.
Never seen someone get so butthurt over an opinion that doesn't attack him at all. Weird.
Must be the needles.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
First of all I'm natural and compete in tested leagues, you mad? Also passed polygraph.
I'm probably gonna start roiding real soon, but shit, humanity is fucking stupid. I'm tired of looking human. Like, look at your dumbass, thinking he has earned the right to offer advice on the topic of bodybuilding.
Sick of that shit. I'm gonna b+c till I die and leave all you weaklings behind. Not even gonna look vaguely like a human, with no recovery problems, I can lift and eat for 8 hours a day, work 8 hours, and sleep 8 hours, you mad natty?
250 mg Test E first cycle, followed by a second cycle of 500mg and then a perma fucking blast and cruise and tren + mast till my heart pops
The only reason anyone is bigger than I am is roids, and soon, I will address that fucking problem.
Second, if you have any fucking fat on your frame, you need to cut right away, because your hormone profile is messed up.
This negatively effects the quality of your gains. Meaning you gain less muscle and more fat when bulking.
How many times do I have to say it for it to get through your thick, thick, skull?
How many times?
It's proven scientific fucking fact.
And yet a 15% bodyfat fat fuck with a 940 lb total is arguing with me.
Hilarious. I am mirrin' delusion that you can offer advice on bodybuilding to ANYONE dumbass when you are so DYEL you have no "visible 6 pack' at 15% bf.
You should have a 6 pack UNFLEXED at 15% if you had as much lean mass as you think you do.
EDIT:
Cmon cmon I'm waiting for the 'post body'
Do it
You wanna see the NATTY GOD you're arguing with here and feel ashamed?
[deleted] 8y ago
You had me until the last point... For one, not every body builder does extreme bulks and cuts, although it is most time efficient. You can lean/slow bulk or do mini bulks/cuts instead. About the six pack, you don't need to feel starved and fatigued all day to be at a 500 calorie deficit if you eat clean food and you definitely don't need to feel starved and fatigued all day to maintain 9-10% body fat. Going back to #1 I would also point out that you don't really need as much muscle mass under your fat as you probably think, girls love physiques of guys who are really not much more muscular than someone who doesn't lift at all but are cut. Also a gram of protein per pound is overkill, if you look at studies the most you will ever need is 64-82% of a gram per pound
p00nbrigade 8y ago
Many natural lifters, at least those that wish to obtain strength and mass gains will tell you that professional body builder style bulks and cuts aren't optimal. If your juicing its a different story.
BindsThatTie 8y ago
I see natural guys repeatedly run long cuts that wipe away months of muscle growth. Then they bulk till they can't stand the chunk again. And they're in this constant grow and shrink cycle that leads nowhere, always dissatisfied w/their look until they reach the harsh conclusion anyone on gear knows all too well:
You can be shredded. You can be big. You can be natural. Choose two.
Kevinfcb 8y ago
I guess my point is:
most people who think they're at 9-10% really aren't. That takes a serious lifestyle accommodation and sacrifice. Annnnd cutting DOES drain you. That's why your lifts drop when cutting and rise when bulking.
women will tell you they like dudes that look like they don't lift but are cut - but that's BS. That's a girl trying to limit you for her own benefit or a girl that knows she can't pull a "big" dude. Like guys that say "I don't like girls that have huge tits". Women are attracted to strong looking men - not dudes that have the frame of a women but have a six pack.
Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone. I just get annoyed seeing bulk/cut threads with special diets being proposed to novice lifters, when the real advice should be "lift, eat a shitload, rest, repeat".
Maybe it's my preference for strength training, but in my opinion - if you can't squat 315, dead 405, and bench 225 - you are not ready for a cut yet. You need to eat more, rest more, and keep progressing.
[deleted] 8y ago
I'm not saying being bigger and cut isn't better I'm just saying being not that big and cut is still great for the purpose of looking good. You can't honestly say girls aren't into this physique. Plenty of guys get into lifting because of girls and then find out how much they actually enjoy it for themselves and then keep at it. I get where you're coming from about getting to a certain level of strength before cutting, it's definitely most efficient but the bottom line is you'll still look good if you cut and you're not quite to those lifts yet. And you can stay pretty lean while progressing, it's just less efficient than doing a long term bulk. But yeah I think since you're into powerlifting cutting before reaching those lifts seems super retarded cause from a powerlifting perspective it totally is
tuzki 8y ago
I think you're spot on. most people assume they're 7% bodyfat when they're 20%+
wisty 8y ago
It's also that women who don't know shit about lifting. I see a lot of guys in the gym who lift 2-3 plates, and still look a bit scrawny - serious bulk doesn't take lifting, it takes lifting, increadible nutrition, and usually steroids.
They seem to think that if you do a few curls every week, you'll accidentally turn into Ronnie Coleman (which is why so many refuse to do anything other than treadmill work).
They probably want "Hugh Jackman in Wolverine" (cut, but not insanely bulky), not "Arnie in his prime".
It's like how they say they want a guy who's 6'6", when they usually mean about 6'2".
[deleted] 8y ago
most. gymbros who think they are 9 to 10 percent are 15+
you gotta measure it and most people cant believe how much fat they are carrying and how hard it is to cut to abs
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nntaylor7 8y ago
If you can do it once is accepted. More is always welcome.
questionac 8y ago
Nah, Chris Hemsworth's body in Thor is the "biggest" someone should get proportion wise, anything more than that is not more attractive.
Keep lifting and do 400, 500, 300, Chris Hemsworth's body will still destroy yours and he'll be considered the most attractive even if you lift twice he does.
[deleted] 8y ago
The problem is that his physique is not sustainable for even the medium term. Hollywood stars train specifically for film roles and film the shirtless scenes right at the peak and usually after getting a good pump. Add in tailored steroids, professional supervision, makeup, lighting, and CGI and they have a huge advantage on screen.
questionac 8y ago
And a bigger physique is?
They need all those things to make it happen in a few months, you do it in 1-2 years.
It's not hard to sustain that volume, and you don't lose flexibility and agility as much.
My point is, bigger is not better after a point. You don't need to break any record in lifting, no need to push higher and higher and break personal records. Once you get your ideal target body it's over, sustain it and focus on other things. If you can have your ideal body by squating 200, then squat 200 even if you can 250.
No need to take supplements, steroids, gain volume. You reach your target, go to sustain mode, relax and use the time saved for something else.
MatrixDream 8y ago
You are so deluded if you don't think there are men who legitimately prefer women with smaller breasts. Now I don't know anyone who actually likes completely flat chested girls but you are making a classic fallacy of assuming everyone works the same way you do if you think every guy wants huge tits.
Kevinfcb 8y ago
Jeeeesus. It was just an example. Settle down.
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laylowwww 8y ago
You like young Vietnamese boys.
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Kevinfcb 8y ago
I guess my explanation should have been clearer. I believe when a girl tells a guy - "don't get too muscular - I don't like that". 8 times out of 10 it's because she's intimidated by the fact that you will get more attention. You're increasing your value while she is not.
Or a girl who tells everyone that she doesn't like muscular guys - 8 times of 10 is because she perceives her value less and sees higher value women getting the muscular guys.
It's not nice, but it's generally true.
[deleted] 8y ago
I had a girl tell me she would swipe left on tinder if my picture was of me with a 6 pack and she admitted that it's cause she would be intimidated, or in other words she feels her value is too low to ever get that. I think you're spot on that girls saying they don't like muscular guys is just hamstering. They say that but then then they go on their computer and oo and ah over pictures of celebrities that are ripped. My point though was that being cut and not super muscular is still going to be considered very attractive by them, not that being bigger isn't even better cause you're right that's just the hamster when they say they don't like big dudes
antariusz 8y ago
She's telling you that to spare your feelings. Because she knows you don't currently have a six pack, and she likes you, and she likes you, and she doesn't want you to feel bad. Remember, women don't "lie" they communicate via emotion. And she doesn't want bad emotions and a fight.
But women respond physiologically to what is directly in front of them. The guy with the six pack turns her on. She might even be smart enough to "know" that the guy is out of her league. But trust me. She still swipes right on him.
antariusz 8y ago
And she's taking about guys that have been using steroids for years with years of dedication in the gym. Facebook memes and inhuman examples of people that look like freaks, guess what, it's not easy to get that way.
A few steroid cycles and packing on a few extra pounds of muscle did work for me to get me lots of extra female attention and from more attractive/younger women as well.
Don't listen to what they say, listen to what they do. I'm at 200lbs at 5'8". Currently cutting with around 165lbs of lean body mass. No regrets compared to what I looked like even 18 months ago (150lbs of lean body mass). And it's not even a drastic change, if I didn't tell you that i took a couple cycles of prohormones, you probably wouldn't know it unless you are big into bodybuilding or research how much muscle is "naturally" attainable.
Collector797 8y ago
Why'd you go prohormones instead of SARMs or AAS? Seems like the more unpopular of the options.
antariusz 8y ago
I found one that I like, I could buy it off amazon / legal. Stocked up enough for a few more cycles the next time I saw it online. I liked the idea of short duration cycles versus the longer injectable test cycles.
I don't drink much so I feared less for liver toxicity than I do for long term natural testosterone production. I guess it's a trade off.
Cost wasn't a factor, didn't bother me getting cycle support, pct and AI and I seemed to recover well after my first, and so I decided to do it again a few months later.
As far as efficacy. I was using alpha 1. Which works, huge physiological effect. And the side effects were tolerable for me. First cycle I tried 4 weeks, first week started slow (20/day) and a larger dosage for my final week, that was a mistake. Second cycle I felt more comfortable just starting at 40mg/day and stopping at 3 weeks. Side effects were complete loss of libido after 2 weeks until about 4 days of PCT, back pumps, and headaches starting after the end of the 2nd week, mild acne, and a HUGE appetite.
Collector797 8y ago
Ahhh I see, thanks for the writeup.
brunomarini13 8y ago
Thanks, that hits home very hard. I am about 15~16% bf, 6'0 and 172lbs, and I was at a dillema if I should cut to get 6 pack or bulk, then realized I have nothing to show for, even after getting from 125lbs to current.
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Kevinfcb 8y ago
Keep eating, lifting, and resting my man! You got this. 172 from 125 is amazing. Keep going!
brunomarini13 8y ago
Thanks dude, that was my transformation from freshman to senior high school, so glad I found this earlier in my life!
inmy325xi 8y ago
Same numbers here and same dillema. Not sure where your from but for me, I normally chill in the winter because its cold on the East Coast and just continue to lift and maintain size and spring comes around bulk a bit to 183 (shows in my face and I hate it) and then cut to 17178 for the summer and maintain it.
I hold a lot of weight in my upper body so for me, that weight looks like 190 to most guys (which means I never get challenged) and the girls compliment me.
brunomarini13 8y ago
I live in South America, and it's cold here as well, though now I'm constantly bulking (not very agressively) till I hit 185.
joedevice 8y ago
Body fat % is literally the most irrelevant stat. It's impossible to estimate accurately. Tthe only important thing that matters is what you see in the mirror. You can sit there and focus on some magic % number goal if you like, but fundamentally all you need to be doing is cutting at a healthy rate of weight loss until you're as ripped as you want to be in the mirror.
p00nbrigade 8y ago
Body fat % is actually the most relevant stat along with your numbers on your lifts relevant to your body weight.
joedevice 8y ago
Only for internet statting, apart from that it doesn't affect anything. Hitting some arbitrary number wont change the way you look or how much you can lift.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Watch this video and see if you still think you can get a perfectly accurate BF% test
Kevinfcb 8y ago
I agree with everything here. My only gripe is that a guy with 8% body fat that can bench 315 is 9/10 on steroids.
I think normal men should aim for between 12-15% body fat. By normal - I mean that you don't compete.
joedevice 8y ago
Why spend money on a BF scan, if you're looking for a quantifiable goal you can just step on the scale and measure progress like that.
Yeah sure the 8% guy is going to look leagues better, but if you're there in front of him you'll look at him and think "Damn he looks good" not "I'm gunna confirm what body fat % he is so I can tell if he looks good or not". Body fat stats are pretty much only used for online dick swinging contests.
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joedevice 8y ago
Then you'll be aware that as you've been in a calorie deficit but still have been gaining strength that you've lost fat and gained muscle. Not to mention the fact that you'd look better.
The idea that you can only track progress with bf scans is simply wrong.
p00nbrigade 8y ago
If your really serious about training and getting the results you want a dexa scan is definitely worth the money. Especially if your already spending lots of money meal prepping and eating clean.
joedevice 8y ago
Weight lifting was around long before body fat scans were and they never seemed to have a problem. Sure body fat scans, when accurate, can tell you exactly what progress has been made, all I'm saying is to 99% of the people here they'll get on just as well with a set of scales.
greatslyfer 8y ago
I've never heard a guy say "I don't like girls with big tits"
Plus there's a reason why male models have a semi-low BF%. It's because women like that shit, you don't have to be that big that you start looking like a tough "I'm gonna snap your sneak" type of guy but hey it sounds like you got a different sense of what women like so you do what you think works best for you.
Kevinfcb 8y ago
Again. I don't train for women. And I certainly don't aspire to have a male model body.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Nah, you're just too fucking lazy and weak willed to cut, and it's 1000% evident from your posting.
Yet you try and offer advice.
Long walk, short cliff.
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greatslyfer 8y ago
"I don't train for women".
See now this confuses me.
You say you don't train for women but you put this paragraph up:
Sounds kind of like you do want to know what women like, else why would you have known that in the first place? Was it due to you losing that low BF% when bulking, and then saying to yourself "pff, women never want cut guys in the first place"?
Of course this is just what you sound like to me so you might actually truly believe that women like big strong looking guys, but hey ignore me if I'm wrong.
Kevinfcb 8y ago
And I really don't train for women. I do powerlifting. If I wanted to train for women I'd be doing hypertrophy routines exclusively.
Kevinfcb 8y ago
Lol. So let's dissect this.
Look like you don't lift ............ big and strong.
There's a HUGE gap between the two.
Women are attracted to strong looking men. That doesn't mean a power lifter or bodybuilder. Basically anything above not looking like you lift lol.
greatslyfer 8y ago
By big and strong I meant you sacrifice muscle definition for more size, so you have a bigger/stronger guy and a guy who has less of a size/strength look to him but looks more attractive than the former imo.
antariusz 8y ago
I may not be a perfect example. But I lift because I enjoy having options, I enjoy getting laid regularly from multiple women. I enjoy being active and having a quality lifestyle.
If you lift to impress one woman, you don't understand the red pill. (If I lift, then this girl that is out of my league will pay attention to me). That's not how it works.
If you lift because you want all women to admire you, you're a narcissist, but better off on the path to swallowing the red pill. No one woman makes a difference.
But yes, I lift for women. I lift because I enjoy fucking women, and having a better body let's me fuck lots of women.
greatslyfer 8y ago
The funny thing is this whole sub is kinda paradoxical in the sense that they say don't care about women but let's see how we can raise our SMV so that women are attracted to us better.
Whatever, honestly I started lifting to look good in front of my class mates and develop the body that I admired as a kid. Then as years go I still lift and the reason? Still pretty much the same lol, to impress other people let's be honest and to achieve a body that I want.
I know that people in this sub say "Oh, you shouldn't lift to impress other people, do it for yourself" and I just can't fathom that, to me it just sounds like a fucking lie and people in this sub DO secretly on some level lift to impress other people.
You can even read it when they give their experience of how improving their bodies changed their interaction with people, e.g "When I would walk in a room, people would notice me more, they would treat me better than when I was a fat fuck" yet they think they don't on some level use that as fuel to work harder at the gym?
antariusz 8y ago
It's the same level of hampstering that women use when they say they only wear makeup for themselves.
You maybe aren't doing it "for" women, but you're certainly doing it to compete against other men. And the better man gets more women.
greatslyfer 8y ago
Yea lol, funny when women say "I'm just wearing this (slutty as fuck) dress to have fun with the girls!"
Then goes to a club where plenty of guys are at lol
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inmy325xi 8y ago
I think what /u/kevinfcb was trying to point out is that for the normal person, they are not about that life. I agree, when I had my 6pack it was annoying because I had to watch everything that I ate because I slip up and they dont show as much, then they only show in the right lighting and then its a rap. If you arent a mesomorph is difficult to maintain it which is why most are not about that life.
Also source those studies because I've read 1 to 1.2g per pound of lean mass. You have to eat a certain caloric intake per day and if your body isnt the type that can handle carbs as easy as the next man those calories gotta come from protein. But I do agree with you, you dont need to feel starved or weak/fatigued. Once your body gets used to a certain diet and lifestyle those cravings slow and your body adapts.
[deleted] 8y ago
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
Here's a little write up with a ton of studies cited
inmy325xi 8y ago
lol..did you not read your sources. It's conflicting information...
[deleted] 8y ago
Yeah they conflict but every single study suggests .82g per pound or less. The conflict is all lower than that number
InSunlightWeBelong 8y ago
Concise and good formatting. The Red Pill needs more quality posts like this. Recently I've been seeing shitposters make it onto the front page
plutorising92 8y ago
Thanks, good post for beginners. There's so much bullshit on diet out there, good to have this in one place.
pillagerbot 8y ago
Apparently I've been intermittent fasting most of my life already. I can attest that this is regime is easy to follow and maintain once you ween yourself off breakfast. I transitioned with granola bars at first until skipping it entirely.
I eat lunch at noon and dinner at 7pm and drink a ton of water between then. It took me a few weeks to eliminate breakfast, then a month or so to decrease my lunch portion size back to normal.
[deleted] 8y ago
Ctrl+F "Calorie" - only 2 mentions of the word in your post, and not really in the only proper use of it in this context.
Have another downvote cuz.
poopcasso 8y ago
If you don't show us your body, your words are worth much less.
FeederPatrol 8y ago
What you say has some merit. However if you Take a look at the highest paid athletic coaches you can see that you don't have to be ripped to know a lot about conditioning or fitness
greatslyfer 8y ago
Yea, show us your body!
secretly takes out lotion and hanky :)
Hayekr 8y ago
This statement makes little sense and is typical of bro-logic seen on bodybuilding.com forums.
It's akin to saying a Doctor treating cancer is less effective unless he himself has had cancer.
godstriker8 8y ago
Not exactly, a doctor has proven credentials such as a degree. Here, it's akin to some random dude giving advice (independent of whether or not its good advice).
GotTheSwagger 8y ago
I agree. However, all of those methods are proven to work elsewhere.
TRIICT 8y ago
Keto and IF work. But Fat people have a fat mind. I lost a ton of weight on keto(we called it aktins back then I tell ya what) in highschool when I switched from TE to FB. But after I stopped playing sports and I went back to my high sugar,fried food life I became a fatty. So I did Keto again couple years back and If slimmed back down to my old weight.These meme diets work,but in the long run you have to change your mindset or you just return to your old fat state.
Many people are straight up addicted to sugar and simple carbs.
bsutansalt 8y ago
Veggies work only when raw. Cooked vegetables change chemically and the fiber you would get is largely lost from the heating process.
JohnnyGameGuy 8y ago
Appreciate the post, I am experimenting on my diet and I hope you can take the time to answer a question I have.
My main lifts are really good and I am ready to start a cut.
I'm interested in trying the CarbNite, then Carb Back Load combo
If I were to do the CarbNite diet for say 8 weeks, should I keep the calorie count always at around 400 under?
Then when I start the Carb back load, I should keep calories above, but how long is it reasonable to do carb back load for the top insulin sensitivity benefit?
My normal diet has always been a slow bulk at 40% carbs 30% protein 30% fat. I suppose I'd go back to that after the insulin sensitivity normalizes.
Thank you so much!
WerewolfofWS 8y ago
Jesus that is nothing! Is this the Auschwitz Bulk diet?
JohnnyGameGuy 8y ago
That's hilarious! I inserted grams instead of percentage. I meant 40% carbs 30% protein 30% fat
Kevinfcb 8y ago
Well. I'd bet 95% of the people reading this are novice.
TheRedWay 8y ago
I would like to point out there is an inaccuracy. This doesn't take away from the entire article, but one sentence needs correcting.
Going into the show the Body Builders are at their weakest. They are at their leanest, but this isn't their peak of strength or conditioning. They are still athletes, and their body is conditioned to be in this state, but again, they are not at their peak performance level.
VinDecent 8y ago
Sorry, I meant "ripped af", not "peak shape". Thanks for pointing this out.
TheRedWay 8y ago
It's all good man. Thanks for summarizing these approaches, with New Years having just passed this is highly relevant. You broke it down well and I will be changing some things after reading this.
Anonyresearcher 8y ago
Just to mention: A recent study I can't find found the conditionals for which genetic groups should have which diets.
It requires knowing your genome, but if you do... could help
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GOATmar 8y ago
No anabolic diet mention?
op done fugged up smh
[deleted] 8y ago
Non sense diet. Nothing but broscience shit here.
how to LOSE or GAIN weight.
1) FIND YOUR TDEE
2) Eat .8g - 1.2g of protein to your body weight (LB)
3) Eat .4g - .6g of fat to your body weight (LB)
4) EAT below your TDEE to lose weight; eat ABOVE your TDEE to gain weight.
Its not that fking hard
of course, eat your greens and fruits.
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testonator 8y ago
No matter wich of the diets that OP presented you need to focus on kcal in, vs out, that is true. But there are different ways to achieve that.
[deleted] 8y ago
It is, but IF for instance makes it easy for you to accomplish that goal.
IF all the way.
VinDecent 8y ago
Agreed, at the most basic of levels. But I don't agree that 2,000 calories from a "balanced" diet is better than 2,000 calories from a ketogenic diet.
Perhaps it's anecdotal, but I certainly feel better, don't have "food comas", look better, and focus better on an ultra-low carb diet filled with moderate protein and essential fats.
Then again, I'm a bro, so take it with a grain of salt. Have you ever tried these diets? Would love your take on it.
Kolbykilla 8y ago
I think the better way to put it is calories in vs calories out is how you lose weight period. How you divide up those calories between your macros is how you'll feel, and how your body will react. Not enough protein and you'll lose muscle along with fat during a deficit. Low Carbs, and your body will feel like shit and you'll have no energy. No fats and your hormones will be fucked and your dick will stop working ect. You might be losing weight all this time but if you get your macros right you can feel/function good while also dieting.
kruxofthemimed 8y ago
Yeah it's ridiculous. I hate the stupid "diet" bullshit that goes around, especially in fitness subreddits. A whole-foods plant-based diet based around plant protein and carbs is obviously the healthiest diet for longevity and health. Any "diet" designed to help you lose weight will ultimately result in binges (I can't believe one of the diets posted even recommend this) and will likely not be centered around what is scientifically proven to be healthiest. I don't know why the fuck people seem to think carbohydrates are evil it's gotta be one of the dumbest fads humans have ever adopted
2comment 8y ago
I agree with you, but I don't particularly feel like jousting the pervasive atkins/paleo/etc crowd over it.
I even think the bulking and cutting phases could be reclassified by low fiber and higher fiber intake respectively, as in a whole plant food diet, that will generally dictate someone's calorie consumption until satiety occurs.
ben492 8y ago
This.
All that IF, Keto & other diets are just plain BS.
If you want to lose fat, you have to burn more calories than you need.
That's it.
Purecorrupt 8y ago
You have to maintain muscle resistance and appropriate protein in take as well in order to minimize muscle loss.
But yeah everything he said doesn't matter if you still eat more calories than you burn.
meh613 8y ago
IF doesn't involve not drinking water, or does it?
SolidScorpion 8y ago
Drinking water is encouraged during IF
I did IF for more than a year. While it proved itself to be a superior choise for me when cutting it was very hard to bulk up (or i did a crappy job at it).
stonerninja93 8y ago
you can drink water, or anything without calories (in theory)...most people like to have coffee or bulletproof coffee (if you are on a keto diet) in the morning or till their fast breaks around midday.
AwakeningLion 8y ago
Bulletproof coffee is defenitely not compatible with IF.
The limit to caloric intake during your fast is something like 20 calories, which is basically nothing. Take coffee, yes. Drink lots of water, yes. Add spices to your coffee if you want, for added benefits.
But don't add a bunch of butter or MCT oil to your coffee, that's not fasting. That's breaking your fast while not eating anything, i.e. completely useless torture.
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ACE-JHN 8y ago
Nice write-up, one thing to add is to learn from coaches that put their content on the internet. My go to is Layne Norton the guy is an absolute brain and his website avatarnutrition is worth looking into.
Lo-G 8y ago
He's just another sellout selling his products. Same for Ray Peat, the Starting Strength guys, and all those youtubers and instagrammers etc. None of them want what's best for you, they just want to sell their products.
ACE-JHN 8y ago
Agreed, but some of the products can be worth it.
velinxs 8y ago
Thank you for this. Good stuff.
metallica11 8y ago
with the IF diet, how MUCH room is there for veering off coursed? I love lifting, and I love looking cut, but I don't want refuse free drinks from people or food past 6pm, because it is outside my "fast window".
Here is an example - had an inlfamed joint in my wrist from playing guitar. I usually take a few ibuprofen and it helps immensely, however, I HAVE to take it with some food, or you can seriously damage your stomach (this has happened to me before). So I'm sitting here, wrist in pain, hard to dress myself, but I Can't take ibuprofen until noon becuase that is when my IF window starts and I need some sort of food along with it (not a lot - maybe halfa glass of milk or a granola bar).
301niko 8y ago
I just drink water with ibuprofen
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Totally disregarded.
Booze inhibits protien synthetics in general, and if you're cutting, you're going to destroy one week of your cut in one day of idiotically shoving donuts down your throat.
Which you should never be... if you're just starting out, sure, I won't begrudge you, everyone starts somewhere.
But if you've been "training" for a while and your Bf % EVER gets above 15%, there's really no excuse.
Stay shredded YEAR ROUND NATTY. No DNP, No Clen, No NOTHING.
EASY. NO NEED TO GET FAT. If you're ever sitting at 15% bodyfat, you FUCKED UP.
Just because Lee Priest makes HUGE gains on fucking Growth hormone and tren and god knows what eating 10,000 calories a day for months at a time DOESNT MEAN YOU NEED TO.
You're fucking up your hormone profile, big time, and your bulk is going to be all fucked up as a result.
Research about leptin levels and refeeds. YOU DON'T REFEED BY SHOVING YOUR FAT FACE WITH CANDY ONCE A WEEK
Yeah Uh Huh I'm sure the guy """training """" for 3 years doing this shit tier fucking meme garbage and stuffing himself with cake and tequilla for 1/7th of the days is competition ready and a dry 8% bodyfat.
tl:dr:
Avoid meme tier diets, just hit proper macros and eat clean, don't IIFYM, research how to properly do a refeed (eat a small surplus of real food in calculated intervals based on your bf % to replenish your leptin levels...)
Research carb cycling, DONT fucking randomly stop eating carbs or eat 99% carbs...
DONT fucking stuff your fat face with tequilla shooters and donuts and tell yourself you're 'training'.
p00nbrigade 8y ago
I was waiting for someone to come and clear this up.
Idk why people are so huge on these cheat meals. Its like no one wants to tell anyone that success in the gym is 99% discipline and consistency. Lifting weights isn't fucking hard people its the commitment and structured life style it requires for success that is.
Also if you lift. Edible marijuana and dabs are your friend. Grow out of drinking its not even that fun and you know it.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Man, once you get to a certain body fat %, like, 9-10%, ACTUALLY 9-10%, not '15% visible 6pack but think I'm 10% because 6pack', you need to start learning about refeeds and shit if you want to cut down to 8% or so natty.
You need to refeed about once a week when you're that lean. Refeed is done by eating a SMALL surplus of CLEAN carbs like oats, rice, potatoes, and vegetables.
20% of your TDEE is perfect, so if your TDEE is 3000, eat 3600 for a day then keep cutting.
The reality of it is, your typical fucking guy, as well as the OP that made this thread, is like 20% bodyfat.
Their refeeds are them pigging out on tequila shooters and fucking taco bell and just eating 'whatever' many calories.
I mean, the fucking diet, and the guy who wrote it, has no knowlege of bodybuilding, or nothing, just randomly read 1 article on refeeds and decided to tell 20% bodyfat people that they should 'refeed' on fucking donuts.
Everbody ITT is acting like it's IMPOSSIBLE to get a visible 6 pack (like 12-15% bodyfat depending on how much ab devolpment you have).
In reality, it's IMPOSSIBLE if you fucking stuff yourself with tequila shooters and pancakes and have zero idea what the fuck you're doing.
I advise just your typical gym bro, to not bother with getting to below 10% and refeeds and shit.
I need to do it so I can take fucking pictures to share with homosexual men on "bodybuilding" websites (not kidding)
Your average dude just has zero need to get that lean, plus, your dick stops working at around 8.5% (enjoy) unless you roid
But there's no reason to be FAT AS FUCK. If you're gonna 'bulk', why the fuck DONT YOU GET LEAN FIRST?
Otherwise you will just end up looking like an amorphous blob.
On the topic of roids, I am seriously considering leaving humanity behind. I gained 1.5 lbs last YEAR of training, kek.
I wanna not even look human. I look around and humanity is fucking retarded and is refeeding at 20% bodyfat.
GET BIG CMON
BDX777 8y ago
How the fuck do you grow taller after 21?
[deleted] 8y ago
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BDX777 8y ago
What about week-long water fasts? I've been drinking water and taking vitamin supplements so my body only uses energy from (hopefully) my pesky belly fat, and I feel fine. I know this might cause muscle mass loss (Easily regained anyhow), but could this help with regulating my hormones and boosting testosterone naturally?
515sofar 8y ago
buy shoe lifts for a free 1 inch (not noticeable)
Pwn4you 8y ago
For those looking to fix your posture, decompress your spine, and move better, this book True to Form has 7 exercises that'll do wonders.
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mattizie 8y ago
Where does it mention anything about height?
BDX777 8y ago
Well since we're on the topic of body sculpting and whatnot, might as well talk about swimming and hanging exercises.
six-inch-valley 8y ago
Most people stop growing around 20-22, but some keep growing until around 25 (or so I've heard).
rowan771 8y ago
can confirm, at 21 I was 6ft4, 24 now and im 6ft5, still a fat fuck though...
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BDX777 8y ago
What are these diets and exercises?
[deleted] 8y ago
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BDX777 8y ago
I'm guessing it's doing leg hangs, pull ups, swimming, even cobra and downward dog yoga stretches. I've done some of those and made some height gains this year. I'm still young and wasn't growing for awhile, now I'm 5'10.5 / 5'11. I'm not too worried about being 6ft, I just want to grow just a little bit taller... I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing!
suske127 8y ago
Literally "growing taller" probably doesn't happen after 21 but if you fix shitty posture and loosen the joints in your spine (assuming they were compressed) you could gain 3 inches, in an extreme case. Most people could gain an inch or two by fixing their posture and loosening their spine
Edit: "Isn't Common" after 21
sahil-walia 8y ago
How to fix posture ? i have little bit forward head posture and L in deathnote anime
suske127 8y ago
Loosen your abdominal and pectoral muscles. Tighten your upper back (lift/exercise)
BDX777 8y ago
What about after 18? Do you stop growing at 21? It's cyclical and hormonal for the most part, right?
TheRedStoic 8y ago
It is rare, but I grew an inch at 26. It's very uncommon. It wasn't posture because I've always had excellent posture.
I was 5'10 slouch 5'11 straight, now I'm 5'11 slouch 6'even straight. I also needed to buy new longer pants, the height was in the legs.
Very rare, but outliers can exist. My guess though, is this guy simply fixed his posture and wore better heavier soled shoes.
rlaine 8y ago
How can I loosen the joints in my spine?
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WhorehouseVet 8y ago
One of those medieval stretch torture device.
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sigma272 8y ago
>not using PB Blaster
ABSOLUTE PLEB
Buchloe 8y ago
Dude, PB blaster is a true miracle. Love that shit.
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Gruyo 8y ago
I don't have much insight on keto, but isn't binging on carbs once a week defeating the purpose of keto, where you're just about to enter ketosis and the carb cravings die out, but you binge on carbs on sunday(for example) and you just reset things. Also I want to point out that you can gain muscle while on a cut, even if you're natty and not a novice. Also I don't see how the slow carb diet is any different from doing IFFYM and just counting the calories.
Dr_Villain 8y ago
I disagree with the premise that going on a diet is necessary. Eat reasonably healthy meals and control your energy intake, keep it under your TDEE for cutting and above for bulking, make sure you get enough of the right kind of nutrients and you're good.
Some diets like keto will make you extremely tired if you're an active guy and play a sport plus lift. The other downside to strict dieting is reduced quality of life. Cutting out whole food groups just isn't a sustainable way to live, so why not just make small, sustainable changes rather than go on a crazy diet that won't teach you anything in the long term?
[deleted] 8y ago
Agreed. TDEE, then adjust for bulk and cut. Dont eat shit like candy and cake. For carbs, eat complex like sweet potatoes, oats, grits etc. Easy.
VinDecent 8y ago
A diet is simply what you eat. You're always on a diet unless you're fasting (which also has benefits).
You might be in the minority that has a great metabolism, good workout habits, and a good idea of what to eat. For the rest of people, a strict diet is a fantastic way to learn these principles and see results that will motivate them to really hit it hard.
Sighters 8y ago
for the majority of the population, eating a strict diet wouldn't be ideal. for a bodybuilder, sure. here's some research showing some advantages of flexible vs rigid dieting https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11883916
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p00nbrigade 8y ago
Low carb diets work exceptionally well once you body is accustomed to it. It also will allow you to really reap the energy benefits of introducing carbs into your diet before a workout for energy.
[deleted] 8y ago
PhD Exercise Physiology, you are incorrect. Part of my career path is that I spend countless hours on Pubmed and the majority of the literature disagrees with you.
Carbs are your primary fuel source for resistance training. To promote hypertrophy, you must stress the muscle enough that you cause structural damage. This occurs in 3 minutes or less, hence why we must take breaks between sets. In times under 3 minutes, the glycogen system is the primary fuel source as it provides enough energy at a fast enough pace. For a typical hypertrophy centered workout, we expect 30-60 second rests between sets to volition all fatigue.
On a low carb or ketogenic diet, performance definitely suffers in terms of hypertrophy and resistance training. Oxidative pathways, while very heavy on energy supply, are very slow. You must back off on intensity, increase rest periods, decrease training volume, or a combination of those, to maintain any semblance of a proper program.
While you may think you can maintain the same training, I assure you it's in your head. If you were to keep a journal, you would likely notice no difference from carbs to keto, which doesn't sound bad, but also realize that you aren't seeing improvements but rather just maintenance.
p00nbrigade 8y ago
This is good to know. I'm in the military and eat in a dining hall so of I ate all the carbs available to me I wouldn't be able to get enough protein within my proper TDEE. When I get out however i plan on meal prepping and eating an substantial amount of carbs for my bulk.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
It depends. That's true in the context of a bodybuilder training for a while, of course, he's not gonna make zero fucking gains without carbs.
But if you have no muscle mass, muscles react so well to stimuli and heal so fast, you can add muscle doing whatever retarded shit.
You can literally add muscle eating -1000 calories diet of taco bell and doing farm work, because your FFMI is so low
Anyone stupid enough to consider keto falls in the 'zero muscle mass' category and they can probably make gains without carbs, honestly.
[deleted] 8y ago
So from what I could actually understand of your poorly written response, you're saying a twig could add muscle mass no matter what?
Also, keto isn't stupid for everyone. I would never do it and I don't prescribe it to people UNLESS they have neurological disorders (ie. Migraines, seizures) as ketogenic diets have been shown to help. For those looking to increase performance or muscle mass, carbs still remain king.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Yeah
Your response was 50% correct and not applicable to the real world, so I'd say it was poorly written.
Your claims that it is "impossible" to add LBM without carbs simply is not correct, it is just less efficient for a beginner and impossible for a trained individual
[deleted] 8y ago
I meant poorly written in terms of sentence structure and grammar. Also, the flow was jumping from one thought to another with some of the thoughts mingling together. I actually wasn't attacking, I was trying to give feedback while trying to understand what you were saying.
I know it's not "impossible" but it is very inefficient and adding LBM would be an exception to the rule. I recently did a BB show where I dropped from 215 to 175 while only losing 4 lbs of LBM. This was done on a 50/30/20 CHO/PRO/FAT diet. I dropped from 16% to 4% (DEXA) AND 3% (SF), so it was a huge change. I kept carbs high, and these results are fairly uniform for others who keep carbs in during the cut up until the last week.
Conversely, I have seen competitors do keto diets and, while some looked great, most came in looking soft and lost quite a bit of LBM. The literature also supports this.
So again, no it is not impossible to put on LBM with low carbs, it is just a very inefficient way of doing so. I would also like to say your response this time was greatly improved.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Oh alright, I didn't know you were competing, I am sort of growing frustrated with the level of people that are offering advice here (and the advice they offer) so I was putting in minimal effort in my replies and shitposting.
I hope the show went well for you, remember, if you don't win, you still get the photos, the experience, and everything else, as well as making new friends!
I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. I don't understand how people training long enough to start competing can be so silly to just abandon proper macros and think they can keto and then carb up for a competition. That never works, and you yourself said, the proof was in their physique.
Any reason for going up to 16% bf? I never like to or feel the need to exceed 12%. It hasn't really hurt me either.
I'm pretty vain and pretty insecure, so past 12% I start to feel gross and just start cutting until I hit 8% and the associated erectile dysfunction (lol) and then eat matienece for a week or two to normalize, followed by a lean bulk back to 12%.
Was it because you wanted to bulk as hard as you could on cycle (not accusing you of anything, just wondering, I know not everyone is a natty DYEL like me, and plus, 4% bf lol), to put on maximum gains?
That is the only logic I can understand for someone bulking that high. I don't see the point otherwise.
The only question your post gave me is why would you bulk to 16%, and I' simply curious why.
At that level, if you're roiding, you're going to have trouble managing your e2, have to pop extra AI, fuckign your lipid levels up, or if you're natty, worry about extra estrogen and lower test levels.
It in general seems disadvantageous
I think the real results are very apparent in people that compete and look good and what works for them, and it's never meme tier shit that you find in the OP. Funny how that works?
[deleted] 8y ago
Careful now, testosterone is probably my main research interest. I have been using it for close to a decade and have made it enough a part of my life that my career goal is to open up a research lab specifically geared towards AAS research. In short, they're safe and they work (when done properly). What you hear in the media is complete horseshit based on bad science done by biased researchers using poor methodology and sampling.
As far as the 16%, it was a dirty bulk. I knew I was doing a show and would be dieting for 16 weeks and kinda went overboard the month before with packing on size. Since July, I'm back to 205 and 10% so I've done well on that. I keep protein at body weight, fat at 20%, and the rest is carbs. This macro makeup has consistently results with athletes and performance.
I've never had a real issue with confidence. I'm a big guy and finishing up a PhD so I'm at the point where I do what I want and don't really care about any judgement others may have. That being said, I'm very Machiavellan and pragmatic. I do what the science shows.
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Thoughts on a 250mg Test e cycle, followed by a 500 mg cycle, followed by perma blast and cruise + mast + tren
I am sick of being natty and gaining 1 lb a year.
I am aware perma B+C is bad for you. I am aware tren and mast aren't healthy.
But I'm thinking and thinking, do I really wanna be this size forever? I'd rather shave some years of my lifespan and be HYUGE for the remainder of it.
Wanna leave humanity the fuck behind, piano man mode here I come
Kevinfcb 8y ago
If the guy who is shredded never put on mass - he won't look good. He'll just look like a scrawny guy with a six pack (most scrawny guys who don't even workout have six packs anyway).
fellforthenattymeme 8y ago
Low bf + Very little muscle > Medium/High bf + very little muscle
At least you won't look like a pear, you'll have a vaguely masculine form.
Anyways, it's ideal to get lean, like single digit bf % lean, before attempting to bulk.
This improves your hormone profile and the quality of your gains bulking (more muscle, less fat).
Plus, if you try to bulk at 15% bf, well you're already too fat, so adding fat to your frame? Gl with that.
Kevinfcb 8y ago
I was responding to the claim that girls prefer dudes that don't look like they lift but have a six pack comment made by another user. Im not trying to say an obese person is more attractive than a frail skinny dude.
jimmysax99 8y ago
A lot of comments on here about what women like best. Like we men have different tastes in women, women also have different tastes in men, so you have to consider individual tastes in all of this.
Having said that though, if you look at studies that are done on what body type women prefer the most, it's a healthy toned man more than the muscled up type. Google it and you can find the studies, but I googled it and here was the first article on it that came up, and guess what, toned/fit was top choice.
http://www.diet-blog.com/07/are_muscular_men_more_attractive.php
Like someone else said, there is a reason most male models are not muscled up types. I've been around the block on this personally, as I have been anywhere from 165 all the way to 245 and everywhere in between over the years, and I am about 6'2".
I always got the best response from women when I was toned and 185 to 195 pounds. I am naturally muscular with broad shoulders and muscular thighs, but I can add and drop weight rather easily, but getting really cut/ripped is difficult for me. I rarely lift, because if I do, i bulk up too quickly and my appetite goes through the roof and I start putting on body fat with the muscle.
When I first started pushing for bulk in my muscles, I actually had several women comment that I was better looking when I was thinner. A few times women even asked me why I was trying to bulk and flat out told me I didn't look as good with the extra weight! Even at 165 I still had muscular legs and arms though, so my body type may look better toned and someone else's body may look better if bulked up, so find your happy medium.
The bottom line is that you want to have some muscle, but anyone that thinks you have to be hulking or that bigger is always better is wrong. If you like that look, nothing wrong with it and women do find it more attractive than too thin or over weight, but the preference is toned/athletic looking, followed by muscular bulk and actual experience tends to prove that fact out for me personally.
One other thing I think you need to consider, especially if 30+, which I am, is that most men these days that are over 30 are pear shaped, so women really respond if you are athletic and toned. I think cut is more in style now for the simple reason that there aren't many guys that are cut and toned any more.
I recently went from 230 to 210 and still dropping, and the difference in attracting women is already considerable. My goal is to get to 195 again, so I'm working on it. And I do it for me and to be healthy, but if I were to tell you I don't do it to attract women too, that would be a lie! Its a nice feeling to drop 20 pounds and suddenly having college age girls flirting with me and checking me out again. The older women though, say 35+, being my age and in shape brings them out of the woodwork! Seriously!
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mehdreamer 8y ago
Can you advice me on steroids for optimal Fat loss?
What are the best products?
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Kolbykilla 8y ago
Taking steroids when you're really fat = a very very good chance that your estrogen will shoot through the roof and you'll get some bitch tits. Its advised to only take steroids after you've cut down to a certain bf percentage for your first time.
[deleted] 8y ago
1) You don't take steroids to lose fat, that's retarded. You take steroids to build more muscle 2) You're asking in the wrong place, go to the steroids subreddit
BindsThatTie 8y ago
Tren is widely known to melt away fat as you pile on lean mass (if you keep your e2 in check).
BindsThatTie 8y ago
Not a steroid, but the strongest compound is DNP. You'll lose a pound a day w/no exercise or diet. Thus you only have to run it for a couple weeks to get the shredded look of a 8-12 week cutting cycle.
Clen or an ECA stack is a more traditional longer cycle (6-10 weeks). But you'll need to do cardio and deal w/racing heart, trembling hands, insomnia, etc. DNP has become the go-to in the bb world of late.
mehdreamer 8y ago
Thanks. Do you know what 'outeat' DNP means?
testonator 8y ago
Don't touch DNP unless you really know what you are doing. You need to do a lot of research before you use these drugs.
BindsThatTie 8y ago
Never heard of that; you can't outeat DNP lol. DNP uncouples the mitochondria in your cells so that more energy is lost as heat. It's no joke and I recommend straight dieting + cardio before meddling with such a serious compound. You need to watch your temperature because a lot of guys go carb crazy because they're still losing a pound a day of fat. The body burns those carbs as heat and you can raise your body temp so high that you die - most often in your sleep. So it's still good reason to eat clean and proper even while on DNP.
isaiahexe 8y ago
I'll be honest, I'm a picky eater (which is a big reason I don't try dieting) and am in high school. The biggest problem is probably that I don't like eggs or beans, and the slow carb diet looks interesting. Any tips about doing it without eating eggs or beans (maybe adjusting it to small amounts of grains or any foods to replace eggs and beans)?
p00nbrigade 8y ago
Learn to create a diet for yourself. Their are many databases online that will have macros for many different foods.
Calculate your required macros, pick foods that you like to eat that fit those macros and then eat that food.
Tell your parents that your trying to change your life for the better so they buy you the food you need. Or better yet get a Job and buy it yourself.
If your going to college, college interviews and admissions boards will also want to hear about you exercising discipline in that way as well.
dudeguymanthesecond 8y ago
From what I've seen regarding diet: one size does not fit all.
Personally I've only had good experiences with a CKD, but only with two full days of higher calories, predominantly carbs, for both bulking and cutting. One day load? Garbage, didn't work. Straight keto? Only worked well cutting. IF? Total garbage, low energy all the time, shitty workouts, no progress.
Arnoux 8y ago
It is a nice summary of your experiences.
Want do you think about the following? I make a smoothie 5 days a week. Each one contains around 0.8-1 kg of fruit (usually apple and orange). I drink it during the day whenever I am thirsty. (it is usually 2 litres, also I get water from other sources).
So what should be the effect of this on my body? You wrote about insulin. This smoothie probably gives a big boost to my insulin levels whenever I consume it.
bleuge 8y ago
Too much sugar, no protein = bad. You must calc the macros of the smoothie, see yourself. For much better nutrition profile and good macros, check the smoothies in Precission Nutrition site.
thor_away92 8y ago
Just add protein powder and peanut butter and now it's a super health food.
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Brewjo 8y ago
Those kinds of limits between 0-100 are the 'dead reckoning' for keto diets.
Unless you prick yourself 2-3 times a day for b-ketones and glucose evels you won't know your hard-line. And even then if you fuck-up for a day, you'll be back into ketosis the moment insulin has driven glucose levels back down to basal levels- which if your healthy is about 4 hours, even if you ate a whole pizza + bottle of coke and an ice cream.
Pancreas's don't fuck around. It should be the organ-mascot of the sub :)
VinDecent 8y ago
Sorry, you're probably right. I couldn't remember the right number. Just make sure it's low and experiment.
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VinDecent 8y ago
Cutting and high volume DO NOT go together. You will be tired as fuck and burning muscle. I recommend HIIT training (see dorian yate's training) when you're cutting. More on training in a later post.
Kolbykilla 8y ago
You can still do high volume just lower the volume. Listen to your body. Carb up and drink some caffeine (pre workout preferably) 20-30 minutes before your workout and you'll be feeling good even on a low cal diet.
do_it_or_leave 8y ago
I am running a diet just like your carbnite. My goal is to lose weight, I am around 20%bf.
Will I cuck my gains if I drink beer on my cheat night?
Blaat1985 8y ago
The last thing you want to do when losing weight is drink beer.
[deleted] 8y ago
What the fuck. You people need to stop saying cuck so much. Yeah man if you drink beer on your cheat night your gains are gonna have to take care of some other dude's kid. Your gains' wife will probably be getting strange dick while your gains watch.
To answer your question, the more beer you drink the longer it will take to lose weight but it's not that big of a deal if you drink on your cheat night. Just don't make the mistake that a bunch of idiots do and think if you drink hard alcohol it doesn't have calories like beer does so you can get away with it often - even vodka has like 90-95% as many calories as beer and other liquor has more than vodka
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sneekeemonkee 8y ago
Or anyone serious about this stuff can give up drinking for a few months until they learn how their body responds to insulin spikes and dietary changes... Then you'll know what damage a beer or two does to your progress.
[deleted] 8y ago
A vodka with diet tonic is about 60 calories. The only beer close to that is mgd 64 or one of those other piss filled light beers. An ipa has 200+ calories. Either way, if you're serious about losing weight, stop drinking all together.
[deleted] 8y ago
Im not sure where you're getting that number, http://www.livestrong.com/article/302200-calories-in-one-shot-of-vodka/
TimmyTurnersNuts 8y ago
Depends on the beer and your body as a whole. Most beers contain about 4-5g of carbs. Just burn it all off the next day.
do_it_or_leave 8y ago
What do you mean with depends on the beer?
TimmyTurnersNuts 8y ago
Depends on the brand of beer. Miller lite, Bud light, Budweiser etc.
RPwhitefrost 8y ago
Your findings pretty much back up my experience since Dec. 5th (when I started my diet). Been doing keto and IF since. Dropped from 188 lbs to 174 lbs. Haven't lost any strength either. Once my eight weeks of keto are up, probably gonna switch to something like the carb back loading diet you described.
TimmyTurnersNuts 8y ago
I've been on keto and IF since about Dec 26th. Lost 7 pounds so far. I also implemented HIIT into my workouts. This plus lifting is weight loss on easy mode.
RPwhitefrost 8y ago
That's awesome! Good job dude; keep it up. Unfortunately, I've had a rough last two weeks. I've been forced into 3 cheat days by family because of the holidays (Christmas, NYE, and Russian Christmas), and I'm highly regretting it. I might have to add a couple weeks to the end of my initial diet plan.
TimmyTurnersNuts 8y ago
Find what is comfortable and adapt. I can do IMF in 18 hour intervals and be fine. Just workout hard and find what's right for you honestly
Rommel0502 8y ago
Have done most of these at some point in my life.
The only thing I'll add is the hi-protein low-carb (CarbNite by the OP) works wonders for shedding fat, but as the OP correctly states you're burning fat/ketones rather than carbs. Hence, the energy is going to be far less efficiently available. That practically means you're going to be tired as shit. Stick with it for two weeks though and you'll see some serious results.
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VinDecent 8y ago
Butter and Avocado are key. Make sure you get some fibrous greens (spinach, asparagus, broccoli, etc) to fill you up. Also drink a good amount of water with some salt in it.
InChargeMan 8y ago
my $0.02, a diy complete nutrition shake is a really great way for those lacking in self-control. Design your ideal macro and micro diet based on whatever your goals are, create a formulation to meet that, make it in bulk (all of the dry ingredients), then each day make a pitcher portioned to the exact calories you want for the day. Eat that and only that, and you are on your way to an easy end-product.
In addition to avoiding stalls in your progress, you will save a ton of time and money, giving you resources to do other stuff that makes you happy.
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Redundant_Bot 8y ago
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0515 ^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?
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hoodbgoode 8y ago
Hmm. Got any articles with a link to a strategy like this?
InChargeMan 8y ago
https://diy.soylent.com/recipes
Lots of formulations other people have made. For me the first step is figure out where you want to be with your macros, then build your food to match that. I like to keep carbs low, but not keto low, so around 100g. Same thing with protein, if you want 125g a day, do that with your favorite protein powder. Use olive oil, coconut oil, some PB or almond butter to make your fats.
If making your own is too much, there are a lot of soylent knockoffs with different characteristics so you can get what you want, keto, etc.
Sketti-Os 8y ago
Can someone further expand on this Carb-nite thing? Relatively new here. The link talks about your workout schedule while dieting on it, and the link is to a website that looks like a bad infomercial.
Low carb, or literally no carbs?
High protein and fat, is there a specific protein:fat ratio that is encouraged?
What are some good meal/snack ideas that don't leave you sick of them after 1-2 plates of the same thing?
PissedPajamas 8y ago
Let me disspell a myth being perpetuated as gospel in the comments:
All calories are not created equal
In a healthy man the body knows how to deal with macros from questionable sources, so why is it important to "eat clean"? The body has a cytokine in charge of regulating inflammation, called tumor necrosis alpha or TNF alpha for short, this protein activates when your body is under attack by antigens. The immune system declares the body to be in an "emergency state" so it signals the release inflammatory cytokines TNF Alpha among others. Some foods contribute to gut disbyosis, the proteins in these foods seep into the blood stream where antibodies detect it and release the cytokines.
Why are we trying to avoid this?
Our body is not fool-proof and sometimes our immune system is compromised due to environmental factors or stress. Cytokines lead to inflammation which leads to fatigue, cancer, insulin resistance, autism etc.
What can we do to prevent gut dysbiosis?
Probiotics, managing our electrolyte intake, cover any micronutrient deficiency, try to consume foods straight off a grill/freshly prepared, avoid food you're intolerant to, avoid trouble food (dairy, gluten, casein, eggs, deli meats, high histamine foods)
Supplements to lower inflammation and fix gut dysbiosis
This one is easy. Most herbs lower inflammation as a secondary side effect, but my favorite has to be Circumin from Tumeric. Fish oil, Niacin, Insolitol, Garlic, Cinnamon, ECGC from tea and vitamin C also help.
The gut responds well to N-Acetyl Glucosamine, it provides the mucous membrane that surrounds the gut lining. Tumeric is multipurpose in the sense that it helps digestions and attenuates the response of inflammatory cytokines as a result of eating food you're intolerant to, and TMG might help those with low stomach acid
Lifestyle changes to lower inflammation
Manage your circardian rhythm, go to bed and wake up at the same time every day. Do yoga, practice meditation and keep your workouts short and intense. Intermittent Fasting lowers systemic inflammation so it's worth a try
Results of lower inflammation and fixing gut dysbiosis
Better delta-wave and REM sleep, more energy, better fat loss, more muscle retention, improved mind/body connection, improved cognition, less intolerances to food etc.
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HedoNNN 8y ago
I don't know why this is not more upvoted. An healthy gut flora is uber important.
PissedPajamas 8y ago
This is for the minority that has their diet in check but feels fatigue throughout the day, isn't losing weight, is losing intensity at the gym, or is getting weaker. If you've exhausted all avenues then this is worth checking out, a healthy gut flora is extremely important in our toxic environment.