I think this might be just the price of being a man.

Women have periods every month, men have to be leaders.

I don't live in the US/Europe/a western country. I live in one of those non-western, non-feminist countries that you all (VERY mistakenly) think has higher quality women. I wish I could show you how immensely wrong you all are about women outside of the western world. All the things that you hate about American women, these women do it too. Sometimes even more. The only differences are that they don't call it feminism, they don't have the law to back them up as often, and they know how to cook.

THANK YOU for this, seriously. I think you'd do TRP a real favor by making a separate post about this with your experiences about this. I've travelled a bit and came to the same conclusion as you, that western guys are pedestalizing foreign women needlessly, but don't have the practical experience to comment.

But I don't want to be a dog trainer.

You have summed up the totality of my feelings about women in one short sentence. Bravo.

OP seems to be suggesting a selective mating strategy favoring women who don't shit test? The more attractive (and somewhat entitled) a woman perceives herself as being (relative to a potential mate), the more likely she is to shit test. A mating strategy that excludes "attractive" women seems .... odd, at best.

And when I see these stupid fucking petty childish shit tests, even once, my interest drops to zero. I can control the situation and put them in their place and correct the behavior. But I don't want to be a dog trainer.

That's the thing about having a pussy. They get to force men to act a certain way (not how they say they want you to act, but how they really want you to act). If you don't comply, then you don't get pussy. Women own all the pussy, and in that sense, they really do make the rules.

The only alternative options are to MGTOW or become a warlord who commands the women of his tribe to be with him on his terms alone. (A man can dream, right?)

There's a reason why many powerful, rich, successful men opt for prostitutes. I suppose that's the third option.

Same with me man, 99% of the time (even before learning about trp) a woman opens her mouth I instantly just want to put like 5 miles between the two of us. Even if I knew she was thinking about blowing me then and there, most of the crap that comes pouring out of their mouths at a million miles an hour just turns me off so much.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone here who would disagree with you, but enduring the shit tests are simply the means to an end. Which is satisfying our sexual needs as men.

Yea, it sucks. Yea, it's annoying. But it is what it is. Female biology/psychology won't be changing anytime soon, so buckle up for the ride.

It's your life, and it's your choice. Because this sub is focused on sexual strategy, it misses entirely the option you have to NOT fuck. But that's just as red pill as anything else. Blue pill would be courting a stanky bitch anyway. Red pill is saying "the juice isn't worth the squeeze, I'm going to do this other thing that's more worth my time."

Either you train her to be the woman you want, or she will come with the training of those who came before you.

I'm going to say you are lazy and looking for a nice deal on a hand-me-down. With proper training, over time she will become more and more your woman and the bullshit should lessen to a tolerable degree.

Another alternative is her training you to be the man she wants. I think TRP really looks down on the third option, however there is such a thing as a man that needs to be dominated to be happy. What type are you?

What country you live in brah

Back up a little bit from the situation. Then back up a little bit more.

Maybe we can agree that humans aren't "designed" to live in giant megasocieties. Most of our evolutionary history would have been in smallish tribes living a semi-nomadic lifestyle. We're sort of hardwired to think in that way. In a tribe situation there would have been just one alpha male at a time and it would have been clear to the women who that was. The betas would have known their place and if they wanted to make a run at the alpha they would have known how to do it (probably violent). Then it would have been clear who the new alpha was.

The doesn't mean betas weren't having sex but it would have been on the side, so to speak. What you see in society now is a lot of confusion about who the alpha is. Women are seeking out that certainty that they're hardwired to look for in a male. You're feeling a bit stressed because you're not 100% sure you're the alpha because society layers rule upon rule on your behavior that would have never existed for an alpha for most of human evolution.

So when a woman, who is seeking reassurance, tests you it opens up that insecurity you have innately and you just want to get away from her. I'd say it's a perfectly normal reaction. I'd also suggest to you that like it or not we all need to attempt to recognize how our biology formed for millions of years and how inconsistent that is with a modern society that really only formed in maybe the last 1000 years (and really only became fully industrialized in the last 100-150 years).

I'd invite you to consider that the tension you're feeling isn't so much with the women themselves but rather the context in which innate human behavior is expressed in a modern world/economy/state. The next time you see a shit test perhaps see if you can feel compassion for a woman who is just trying to respond to her impulses in a world very different from the one in which her brain stem evolved.

" The only differences are that they don't call it feminism, they don't have the law to back them up as often, and they know how to cook."

LOL, well those are some pretty big differences.

"...and the know how to cook." Priceless.

Interesting statement about the non westernized country woman being as bad as Americans. Just out of curiosity what country are we talking about? Do you have iphones/Facebook?

I would have been so disgusted by the fact that this girl behaved like a snotty, deplorable child that I wouldn't have wanted to spend the rest of the night with her. I wouldn't have even wanted to touch her or fuck her.

Well that is going to be a problem for you because....

What I'm finding most recently, additionally, is that I'm not able to find any women who don't do this.

And...you won't.

I'm new to this sub and I wanted to know what "keeping frame" means.

I've been listening to the Beige Phillip show for the last 30 episodes or so and one of the principles he reiterates is that women will test you and give you "shit" to make sure you are the "shit." It is not in the best evolutionary interest of a woman to produce offspring of a man who cannot control his emotions and hold frame, let alone her. That said, I subscribe to Dante's theory in that it is merely a fitness test, much like how we screen women for attractiveness.

That's because you don't want to impose your will on people. You want them to know how to be a good person and judge them harshly for just being a normal crappy person.

The glass is half empty is all I hear you saying. You can get agreement here easily because most people get stuck hating women. Or you can find a way to enjoy the other half of the world's population.

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The way I feel, women need to "earn the right" to my patience. A woman who has demonstrated a lot of positive qualities and only occasionally slips up with bullshit, I'll probably be patient with.

So don't look for a unicorn, accept their inferior nature but get better at screening out the stupid cunts.

Thanks OP, much appreciated post

Let's say only 1 out of 500 attractive women are worth your time. How much of your life do you have to invest in finding her?

The answer is very little. Body language (such as the entitled stance) and tells will rule out a bunch. Then short conversations will rule out almost all the rest. And by short conversations I mean short, like two minutes. Next as fast as you can.

Can you have 20 short conversations a day? Easy, just banter when about. In less than a month you have fitness tested 500 women.

Now it seems frustrating to have had to reject 499 attractive women, and wasted, in total, many hours on listening to silly, inane, and trivial chatter, but you can multi task (common male trait), that is don't stop whatever else you were doing.

Now this 1 out of 500 attractive woman will still shit test, she will still have drama and emotional meltdowns. But these will be rarer than most, and the vast bulk of the time will be fun.

Thank you for writing this. I've been thinking of writing similar, but now my job is done. Stay smart.

Shit tests are just their way of testing you, dude. And yes, it takes practise to overcome them. You won't have an answer every time. But if you fail a shit test, it's no bad thing as it teaches you not to give a shit in the first place.

I think it's the female's natural way of redressing the balance.

A girl gets dressed up, wears their low-cut tops and miniskirts at the clubs and most of them look stunning. It's their way of attracting a man. I mean, are you going to talk to the dressed up hottie, or the frump in the cardigan with no makeup who hasn't seen a hairbrush since The Spice Girls happened?

You judge a girl on appearance, if she passes, you go and try your moves.

On the other hand, a girl wants a strong independent man who will take the lead. You stand there and hold that frame while she throws a few rocks at it and see if it moves. In terms of first impressions, it's the only real tool available to them! After all, you don't walk around advertising what you do for a career, you don't impress them with your maths skills, you don't swoop them off their feet with your awesome connections in your industry. Because if all of that is legit, your frame will demonstrate that fully!

Shit tests are no big deal. Which is why you should approach daily and expect to fail!

I get rejected probably half the time, I'm still learning the art of shit deflecting. Does that stop me? Fuck no. Just get better at it. Practice makes perfect!

Last night, I was at a club. I didn't say anything, just grabbed a girl who was with her friends and just started dancing with her. She was laughing the whole time, some sort of nervous automatic response to my confidence. Towards the end of the night, she did ask me back to hers but I have college this morning. I got her number though (and a fresh text this morning).

Some you win, some you lose!

This is some next level shit, son

Insecure girls who don't know what they want "shit test" a lot more than grown, confident women. A confident, real woman doesn't need to shit test because she knows what she's looking for.

I know that feel. I want to date a a highly intelligent concious being, not a homo sapien constantly assessing and analyzing my potential as a resources gathering provider mate. My ex was particularly attractive and her constant reference to herself as a highly prized commodity or assett as her contribution to the relationship was irritating. I had her completely under my thumb but could never quite shake the fact I could read her subtleties a little too well and was dismayed by the simplicity of her biological priorities and ticks.

I'm actually going to start a dark comedy blog that expresses such disdain at this kind of thing. I'm a sociologist and biologist and actually wish I was above this chimp business. Women are simple once you get to know them (as are men) and i'm turning more misanthropist with each and every passing day.

99% of women have little use except sex. Most women are incapable of holding and intelligent conversation. Most men for that matter also.

_And PS, I don't live in the US/Europe/a western country. I live in one of those non-western, non-feminist countries that you all (VERY mistakenly) think has higher quality women. I wish I could show you how immensely wrong you all are about women outside of the western world.

Women are the same everywhere :-)

Men and women are the same around the world. Its nature that programs the human mind. That being said, cultural and society does influence the way people act. For example sex ratios, laws, and culture.

imo these shit tests are a way to prove whether or not you're a man worth trusting. The more emotionally insecure/unstable the girl is, the more trust she needs. Once you've proven yourself to be a rock, her femininity can flourish to compliment your masculinity.

An interesting parallel here I think... How many times have you guys felt frustrated because some girl expects you to "just know" what to do, how to treat them whatever?

Unless I'm missing something, that's essentially what OP is lamenting... "Why don't these girls already know they should be decent, engaged human beings first, and sex-pots second?"

I really strongly identify with the way you feel about pursuing women. I just don't want to do it anymore. I can go out, talk to a girl, bring her home and hook up whenever. But they aren't worth my energy or my patience. I can't stand their snobby, bitchy attitudes, or the fact that 95% can't talk about anything but their iPhone or TV even if they have done well in school and do have a decent IQ. I live in a part of the U.S. that has some of the worst women; many have a lot of education but are still as dumb as shit. They're masculine, have tattoos (some are covered, most have at least 1), and think that because they have a pussy they're the center of the universe yet deserve all the protection of society for being marginalized victims.

It's so frustrating when all I've ever wanted from a woman is to come home to somebody nice, pretty, and agreeable, who actually cares about me and sees me as a human being. Maybe I'm still just fantasizing about being a BB for whatever personal crap I dealt with growing up. I don't even know anymore.

Well, at least they can cook.

Time to mgtow it up.

And you're definitely not alone on this. Look up barbarossa/bar bar on youtube. He's got pretty much the same idea on what you've just said.

A tl;dr version of what he often says is that we really, REALLY have to start holding women to a higher standard, and preaching the word if at all possible.

An interesting point he also makes is basically that this will only stay the case as long as women hold monopoly on sexual power, and as soon as the male pill, artificial wombs and even sex dolls become mainstream (guess why this is so opposed and shamed by feminism and women and manginas in general, and likely will be in the future still) and affordably available, only then will women realize they have to clean up their act and become the potential they CAN be, because why would any man even bother anymore at that point?

So yeahh... Not very constructive but at least food for thought...

And aside that: stay strong, preach the word, and have some f-ing standards I guess. It's all we can do at this point to make the following generation at the very least slightly less shitty...

You have your clear-cut reason to never marry.

I can relate to this frustration. My ex and I would have a fight and then she'd try to have "make up" sex within 15 minutes of the fight. I'd push her away because I was honestly not attracted to her at that moment. All I saw was a child.

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I can definitely resonate with this statement. In my eyes, every relationship; casual or serious, should have some level of mutual respect for one another. I see this type of double standard far to often. It's something that I also find to be very unattractive.

This is the end point you can reach. After you've understood it all and can get women without effort. The last stage. If there's anything past it, I still haven't found it yet.

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"What I'm finding most recently, additionally, is that I'm not able to find any women who don't do this. Every woman I encounter fails to impress me so much that she's either barely worth the trouble of meeting with, or that I am actively passing up easy sex because I lost respect because of their stupid behavior/comments, and I don't feel good after fucking someone who inspires more contempt than affection."

Next step would then to be point out their deficiencies, after sex of course, AWALT and next time you see them guess what the subject of conversation will be?

Or, there is the really over the top strategy of "oh, you think you have problems, then here is X and Y and Z of my life" once the monologue begins..it takes their mind of their problems and puts the hamster on your problems.

Key to making that happen is..you must offer them something their hamster values

Wait, let me get this straight -- you don't want to babysit your fleshlight? What are you, some kind of shitlord?

Find what it is you actually want to do with that knowledge and if it doesn't include smashing on the regular you just keep in your back pocket so you know how to not get got.

The world is filled with misguided strategies and backwards methods for accomplishing things. Not just interactions with women, this is just overall a good foundation for a life lived effectively. Take what's useful and move on, like a good movie talk about it some then continue on wondering what's next.

Just take comfort in the fact that for the rest of your life you will never have to worry about whether or not a bitch will be just that to you -- you will know before they do. You will never lose half your shit to a harridan. You will never have a random kid go up to you and say "daddy!" and mean it. So many pitfalls that ruin great men you get to walk right the fuck past. Yeah dog training sucks, but you sure know when the fuck ones going to bite now and that's a useful skill to have. Just cherish it and move forward.

Try to view it less them being immature and snotty. While it can be perceived as that, that line of thinking is futile and will get you no where, so why waste your time with it?

See it through the lens of them testing your masculinity, making sure you're the adult, stable MAN she needs. Take pride.

And we slowly become the pandas who can't and won't fuck to save the species. Fuck it all, let it all burn. I won't shed a tear when we are extinct.

And PS, I don't live in the US/Europe/a western country. (...)

At least they're not as fat!

My problem is not with women testing the men they are with, it is with how childish and disrespectful the tests are. They are testing for such useless qualities such as being able to correct an adult that acts like a child.

I would have respect for a woman that tested my honor or integrity, or being able to keep to my word but acting like a spoiled brat or saying something in a disrespectful tone. Naaaa. Depending on what I have seen of you , if you are not worth the trouble you get demoted from potential partner to an object of utility.

I've got a solution that's worked for me: Lower your physical standards. I know in the US and EU there are a lot of entitled low-value woman, but you're more likely to find one that knows she can't be a bitch and get what she wants because more men won't find it worth it to deal with her shit.

Who knows, I was lucky enough to find someone who is a sort of unicorn while doing this, maybe you can get soumething where you're not looking.

A lot depends on where you go to meet women. Obviously a club or bar scene is going to have skankier, less wholesome women. You have to put yourself in environments where quality females are plentiful.

I did a lot of typically non-male stuff while single and I was amazed at the quality of women that I was around, and the ratios were great for talking and meeting. Painting, ballroom dancing, and yoga are some of the best places to meet women I can think of. Most of the women are normal aren't doing these activities to try and sink a man, they are just living their life. Way less issues than looking online or picking one up at a bar.

A few women I know use this quote on their social media; "I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best."

For lack of a better comparison, why would I want a car that only starts eight times out of ten? Who needs a shitload of grief with occasional benefits for your patience?

nd frankly, I don't know how most of you put up with it.

It becomes easy, once you understand that they can't help it it's like us staring at a gorgeus woman, they feel the need to push against a strong frame. It's quite cute sometimes and as long as it doesn't even come close to disrespectfull like in the case of the "deal with me guy" I have no complaints.

There are varying degrees of self-awareness and emotional maturity/stability in women. And when I see these stupid fucking petty childish shit tests, even once, my interest drops to zero.

Your interest is based on a standard that has nothing to do with real life. The shit test only change with maturity and self-awareness, they don't go away. I live in eastern europe, compared to british women ours are way better, they are right, however ours for the most part have long term game, that means that the shit tests are more subtle and less obvious, this also makes it so you don't always have the option to dismis or ignore them. Also, as a foreigner you get at least 2 points for not being a national and another 2 for having a discretionary budget, so they punch way above their SMV. So they get a better deal all around compared to what they can get at home: low resistance up front and better value for the effort.

And PS, I don't live in the US/Europe/a western country. I live in one of those non-western, non-feminist countries that you all (VERY mistakenly) think has higher quality women.

 
Well! Sounds to me you have pleeenty of field reports to the class then!