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- Hide Preview | 18 Comments | submitted 7 years ago by squarehouse [Post Locked]

I'm just going to say it: I hate how Reddit and Seddit in particular loves to take a dump on "nice guys". The feminine imperative, for instance, is strong in this thread. Sad article, even sadder thread.

Here's the argument underlying seddit's reasoning:

  • Nice guys finish last. They have trouble in relationships, and even attracting women in the first place.
  • Therefore, nice guys are emotionally weak, needy, entitled and manipulative.

Just take a shit already. Whoa, whoa there. There is nothing wrong with "nice guys."

Here's an example of such a post:

I think most people in this subreddit (and the author of the article, I suspect) use the term "nice" as defined by the book, "No More Mr. Nice Guy."

Great. So when we say "nice guys finish last" we are only talking about these so-called manipulative needy people. Wait...why would we only talk about these guys? And the genuinely nice guys who are having the same trouble?

the idea that "nice" people are actually not so nice because they are typically "nice" with strings attached. Strings that even the "nice" person may not be aware of, such as hoping/expecting that the girl notices him after all his friendly gestures, and then getting bent out of shape when after years of supplication she marries a "bad boy" instead.

Strange that. A guy showing interest in a woman that he's interested in. That sounds...horrible. Reddit is all about making this sound pathological. Also, you want to know the epitome of "strings-attached"? Every woman you've ever dated. When a woman wants you, she also wants something from you. But I don't fault women for being this way, it's actually fucking normal.

And that has led to some not-so-nice revelations about who we might be as "nice" guys who finish last.

Know what is missing from this guy's discussion? Women. They are totally missing. The strength of the female imperative is so strong that women aren't even mentioned, they are like gods from another world, watching the feeble men scramble to try to figure out the right sacrifices and the right ceremonies to appease them.

No, nice guys finish last because women desire evil men. Oh yes, the conversation looks very different when women enter the room. Every HB knows something of the tragedy of wanting to want "the perfect guy", the guy who would make her happy, the decent, respectable, hard-working man who would care intimately about her needs. But she just can't go through with it, because she knows such a move would imply a great sacrifice for her. Such a man could never unlock whole areas of woman inside her, that can only be penetrated by an evil man. And once she's known such a man, no merely decent guy would do.

[-] theubercuber 9 Points 7 years ago

Im glad this subreddit is gaining momentum. I need this perspective to counterbalance the feminizing seddit.

[-] squarehouse 5 Points 7 years ago

Welcome aboard! Spread the word! 53 readers already, whoo!

There is an obvious thirst for knowledge on reddit.

[-] iggybdawg 4 Points 7 years ago

I read the article and I don't see it as girls desire evil men. It's girls desire men that are only nice some of the time or under certain conditions, which makes the niceness seem to have value. Nice guys are nice all the time, which makes their niceness seem cheap.

Think of it as nice guys are prepaying their niceness in hopes for intimacy. Bad boys are postpaying their niceness in response to intimacy. Huge difference.

Been there, done that. When my wife is being a crazy bitch, if I'm nice, I don't get laid. When I push back or withhold her rewards on her bad behavior, I get laid.

So, not evil men, but men who ration out their own nicities.

[-] MegaMeatSlapper85 3 Points 7 years ago

Wow, that was a rambling tirade. I used to be a guy that was a "nice guy" who was spurned by women and generally thought people shit on him. Turns out there's a difference between being a "nice guy" and a nice guy with crippling insecurity and no confidence. Everyone wants something out of a relationship - to say otherwise is foolish. The reason a lot of girls don't want the "nice guys" you speak of is because they come off as weak, and poor protectors.

God forbid people should look for SOs that can treat them well, and be able to protect them.

[-] squarehouse 5 Points 7 years ago

Turns out there's a difference between being a "nice guy" and a nice guy with crippling insecurity and no confidence.

You're just trying to separate out "the good nice guys" from "the bad nice guys" based on the feminine imperative. In practice, women spurn both groups the same.

God forbid people should look for SOs that can treat them well, and be able to protect them.

God forbid women look for men that treat them well. I'd love to find more of this.

[-] pickup_sticks 1 Point 7 years ago

I'm a good guy who gets laid on a regular basis. Many, many women have told me I treat them better than anyone they've ever dated, and they especially say I'm the most communicative.

I used to play around with that bad boy shit and got a little action, but then I started focusing on being vulnerable. I get way more action now with higher quality women.

Chicks dig authenticity.

[-] pickup_sticks 2 Points 7 years ago

Fake nice guys -- the ones who hide their true desires as a manipulation strategy -- are often the scariest when they blow. These are the guys who murder the wife and kids, then commit suicide. Garden variety criminals don't do that.

[-] [deleted] 2 Points 7 years ago

Attaboy, this shit is the antithesis to seddit lite bullshit. I don't need pua I just want a nice girl and to improve myself bullshit. Man up nut down thanks for this.

[-] squarehouse 2 Points 7 years ago

There's an easy way to have that fantasy of "the nice girl". Find a girl who is several points lower than you in SMV. I'm actually starting to do that (red pill beta here). Because, at the end of my life, I'm not going to give a shit about women.

[-] legendofpasta 2 Points 7 years ago

I already do that - go for several points lower in SMV - Good short term bandaid. Makes me resent a lot though

[-] squarehouse 1 Point 7 years ago

Makes me resent a lot though

How so?

[-] legendofpasta 3 Points 7 years ago

I'm still a little sick to my stomach from the blue to red pill transition. I don't like having to do Hypogamy because of the female prevalence of hyper gamy.

I don't like that my 22 y/o gf has been with a dozen guys in their mid thirties. I'm 25 and I'm an accountant. When I'm 34 I wanna be banging 20-22 year olds with no strings attached too, not a 31 year old gold digger who got me while I was young. Shit. I can't justify marriage anymore, or fidelity for that matter.

I'm having a hard time swallowing the truth of things, like smv and smp, hyper gamy and hypo gamy. It explains everything.

I've been gaming girls for about a year, but with no perspective. Knowledge of the truth makes a resentful pessimist out of me.

My girl makes half as much money as me. Has no insurance for health or dental and doesn't earn a pension. She would stay with me for this alone. Fuck

[-] [deleted] 7 Points 7 years ago


[-] iggybdawg 3 Points 7 years ago

It is a chicken and egg problem that I've struggled with alot, as well. In highschool, my parents would ask why I'm not happy. I'd answer because I didn't have a girlfriend. And their suggestions that I find happiness alone and girls would come for me was lost on deaf ears.

In my own marriage, I had fallen into the same trap until I took a serious look into game. I had come to the point where my wife's weakened sexual response (due to falling for the betaization pressure wives inadvertantly place on their husbands) was making me unhappy.

Now, in my own process of unplugging, just finding happiness elsewhere, setting and keeping boundaries, having positive interactions with my wife's friends, and she's already coming alive in the bedroom.

I think it's important to note, though, that women don't conciously employ these tactics on us. I think it's subconcious, biological even. It's their bodies wanting to reproduce that creates the game. Also, I would call it "feminine" rather than "feminist", since feminism is the movement to erase social gender differences, which is fighting their instincts rather than playing along.

[-] squarehouse 7 Points 7 years ago

Yep. I'm so glad for the red pill. I'm just starting to see a girl, and this is the first time that I've basically been doing everything right.

Last night she told me "You seem to have a lot sexual experience." I don't really, LOL, but the point is to make her think I do. That isn't something the pre-red pill me would have done. In fact, I would have thought through the feminine imperative that coming off as a man whore would hurt my attraction to women. It's a curious revelation to realize that it's exactly the opposite. You just have to be subtle about it, use at least two levels of indirection. For instance, when groping her breasts I said, "The first night I was relieved that you're responsive here."

As long as she sees me as an alpha, I can really do no wrong. But if she sees me as a beta, nothing I'll do will be right. I live in a small house with no appliances, my place is a mess (she's neat and tidy), I forgot to shave, and she spent the night last night. She already wants to cook and clean for me. And I mean this to say she wants to. Personally, I'm not thrilled by the idea, and never mentioned it, but she keeps bringing it up. It's like a feminine instinct.

She told me with her last boyfriend it took her four months to feel comfortable to have sex with him. We had sex on our fourth date. In fact, I told her that it doesn't usually take me that long (it doesn't). All the propositions of Rollo and Heartiste are proving true, one by one, the bells are ringing.

She told me about her last boyfriend. I guess he had a "really really really small penis". She said if she found out before she fell for him, that her relationship wouldn't have continued like it did. She basically tells me that he treated her badly, and he was too complacent. This is basically code for "beta". He was probably just a normal, genuine guy. "Treating her badly" is probably just code for him defending his pride and responding to the shame of her attacks and attitude.

I even told her, "Yeah, I get complacent too." Didn't cause her to run the other way. I even told her that I was sociopathic on our first date. Probably had the opposite effect LOL. Female friend told me "No! Don't tell her that!" Yeah, never take dating advice from a woman. They'll usually tell you the opposite of what you need to be doing.

Agreed about the difference between feminist and feminine.

[-] [deleted] 2 Points 7 years ago


[-] squarehouse 1 Point 7 years ago

Yeah...I'm not even sure if it's true or not. But it's something that keeps coming up in our conversations. She keeps saying that "that is one of the things that worries me", about me opening up and everything.

Seriously guys, use this. Find some hard-edged, dangerous aspect of your personality and exaggerate it a little. This draws women in, makes them feel needed. Women don't want "the perfect guy", they want a guy with flaws. Just make sure you attract her feminine instinct, not her maternal one (friendzone/beta-orbiter zone).

[-] tyciol 2 Points 7 years ago

I believe it's possible that some women predominantly apply the majority of tactics subconsciously, but we should not discount that everyone will always apply SOME conscious elements, and that some women may do this predominantly rather than subconsciously.