HSP asked me to make a quick post for the fence sitters because well, I've spent a lot of time on a topic he was going to write on.
I'm busy for the holidays so I can't make a 15K post for you to say "what the fuck" to when you open it. So instead, feast on 100K chars a bite at a time.
TL;DR
You can't fake it, women don't value you being a good guy and your dreams of how you think your family will be are either fundamentally misinformed or you are still huffing blue pill fumes.
These guys were all right, all along. I spent years banging my head against the wall until I learned my final lessons.
Freedom.
It's the most valuable thing any man has. You give it up when you have a family. This is okay, but only if she doesn't make you sacrifice your imperative, because she can't sacrifice hers.
She gives you other women, because she can't sacrifice hypergamy.
And if that doesn't work, you exercise freedom. Because even if you become the Silverback Patriarch, again, you'll learn that you're still going to cupcake day at the zoo. You're still executing her end game.
Don Draper?
Was her best option, till he wasn't, gave her kids and then footed the bill and played babysitter. Great plan.
You want kids, no complaints from me. Got what some people consider a lot.
When it's working you're "winning." When it's not "you lose." Either way, she wins.
So plan accordingly. And when I say plan, I don't mean "work harder" or "yeah, I'll just..." I mean, get it.
Don't follow that path.
Your path means you don't sacrifice your imperative. Because she can't sacrifice hers. A woman can't agree to be non-hypergamous.
So don't agree to be her provider in exchange for a performance contract with a built in socially sanctioned guillotine. Don't agree to unconditional provisioning with someone who can't guarantee unconditional attraction to you.
Hit the books.
Maybe you don't even know what women look for in a short term mate, what the actual difference is between red & blue. I got you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7ptnb5/protectors_vs_providers_afbb_killing_the_blue/
Maybe you think you're a nice guy with an edge. You're not, you're every dude before he gets wrecked.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/93eykk/good_hearted_men_with_an_edge/
Maybe you'll work really, really super hard for that family of yours. Those red pill guys are just butt hurt losers...
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/8746br/stacys_credo_death_of_the_plow_horse/
Maybe you think that being a good person has some value in the SMP.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7ukku8/the_true_alpha_on_male_virtue/
Maybe you think you'll be the "Silverback Patriarch"
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7815fp/children_without_fathers_and_women_without/
What about if you made a million dollars and became the ultimate status icon, ever?
Or you think married red pill means TRP sanctions marriage?
I will answer any of your questions about family as a Christmas gift. If you think you have any viable angle why TRP is wrong, I will politely tell you why you are misinformed, as a gift.
Merry Christmas
Love what she brings you.
SensualSeduction01 5y ago
By this logic, Rollo is beta then. Right?
sadomasochrist 5y ago
All LTRs are provisionary. So yes. It is impossible to have a "family" and not provision. You can orient yourself as a STR candidate and provision to your own level of comfort, which is what I do. But it's still a form of provisioning. Just one that is at least neutral in terms of power and ROI dynamics.
To be clear, TRP takes a lot of issue with "family alpha"\tradcon type guys that are in monogamous relationships. I also have what could be considered a "more red" view of the AF\BB stuff than Rolo.
Literature is pretty clear almost everything guys say online is "alpha" is under provisioning behavior.
SensualSeduction01 5y ago
Wouldn’t protection itself be a form of provisioning? As in, you’re providing protection in exchange for sex.
sadomasochrist 5y ago
Overtly, yes. This is what white knights do. The term "protector" isn't really a functional name, it's more mythological in origin. It's referencing the traits of short term candidates women find viscerally arousing.
Height, jawline, gate, reach, narcissism, arrogance etc.
When these men act as providers we call them blue pill alpha males. Women consider these men unicorns.
SensualSeduction01 5y ago
I find it strange that someone could be narcissistic and bluepilled. What do you think about that?
Also, when you mention reach, you mean reach in the context of boxing?
One more if you don’t mind: wouldn’t women lose respect for these unicorns also, due to their behavior?
sadomasochrist 5y ago
You see it all the time on here. Men that describe red pilled men as "loser incels" and how they "don't need advice that you should have learned in high school."
Reach, height, strength & gate are related to physical dimorphism. Basically how non-feminine are you as a man. Some women may choose assortatively feminine men, but they're doing so for control (blue pill selection mechanisms) or because they're outliers.
Yes. Which is why a lot of guys hit the hardest are "naturals." Blue pill alpha males who have had a lot of success with women naturally (hence the name). Then they learn how women actually operate once they have to knuckle down.
That being said, n-count has an influence on this outcome. Some women are happy to snag one and understand what they have. Others, not so much.
The issue is related to RMV\SMV conflation, where women can't separate out men that care and men that don't, which causes SMV inflation.
So neurotic women who snag a guy in the top 5%, say tall and educated with a strong frame who start to disrespect the guy for being upstanding will likely find out that they got pretty lucky unless they're very attractive to reup.
Avertus 5y ago
Now to think of it, feminists don't merely hate men when they protest against the patriarchy. For what does patriarchy mean? Take the definition of the Greek words and one realizes that what feminists really want to destroy specifically is the role of the father in family. In my country, we have an expression calling fathers "the pillars of the home." You might as well call fatherhood the foundation of the family--and by extension, society. Remove the foundation and supports and see what happens to the whole building.
This is why fatherhood just isn't worth pursuing in the new, gynocentric, emasculated culture (at least in the West). And no wonder the effects of destroying this pillar of the family manifest themselves in all the degeneracy and chaos
Zech4riah 5y ago
Excellent, maybe this post brushes off the blind faith that "if you are alpha enough, the women will stay".
Remember guys, she is not yours, it's just your turn but you can have another turn later if you play your cards right.
nebder 5y ago
Idgaf who she has. Her problem not mine
I know I’m not hers, it’s just her turn with me
Stop with the faggot bs take back your life
Zech4riah 5y ago
Did I break your disney fantasy? :(
Sry, you can't to keep her no matter how alpha you are but if you are alpha enough, she will come back some day for a good fuck when she gets bored with the beta she nexted you for.
Lib3rtarianSocialist 5y ago
Your post is spot on. However, your post does not say "Don't marry". Why? Because marriage is disadvantageous in much of 'the West', but is not disadvantageous (apart from the obvious reduction in freedom) in many countries such as mine, where it is helpful for the man.
Here, society shuns extramarital relations. This will not remain for long, yes, but things will only be infected by the sexual revolution among the urban wealthy.
For those of you who don't live in a nation, don't choose that path.
yomo86 5y ago
Yup. Couldn't agree more. The sacrifice part is what broke the camels back for me 5 years ago. A girl I was dating always told me something about sacrificing in regards for marriage. Guess what her sacrifices are temporary until she feels she sacrificed enough. As a man you are to expected to keep on giving until you drop dead. Ever wondered why men recieved the dowry and not vice versa? She could only give children you should give her a life. This contract has been perverted. Still you are to give her princess lifestyle but children and all the other things a marriage entails are totally up to her.
WarriorMonkMode 5y ago
Freedom is like a banking account: you either save wisely or someone will spend it for you. Then when you need it, you have none to spend.
Invest in yourself. Buy low, sell high. Cash in your freedom only when the price is right. Make sure that when you do cash in your freedom, you're set for life for an early retirement. Otherwise you'll find yourself in the streets with nothing to show for it. After all, men were designed to be disposable.
carrills 5y ago
I have always wanted a family of my own. Despite lurking trp for years, I bit the bullet and got into a marriage thinking the tools I had developed would allow me steer things in a favorable direction. Inevitably, it all blew up, and I came back to an empty house after a particularly long workday. The only saving grace is I didn't have kids, sparing me a life a slavery to a woman who would undeniably raise our children telling them that I abused her and abandoned her. I had to cut out a lot of friends and family out my life that believed her stories. I still want kids, but at this point, I think surrogacy is a more viable option.
The_Frag_Man 5y ago
It does seem like the better option.
markinsinz7 5y ago
Story time? I mean I always expect men with trp in their pockets to have better odds of succeeding in the married life
sadomasochrist 5y ago
You do not want to be a single father. Find a woman with a pleasing orientation and expect to be in your kids lives on so long as she's attracted to you.
EdmondDaunts 5y ago
No matter the choices you have in life you need to build contingency. In fact if you take a Stoic view on it, that’s all you have. Same if you want to get married and/or have a family.
A lot of the sidebar here is teaching you to learn how to build that and how to avoid pitfalls where possible.
But you are never going to avoid them.
RedGunnera 5y ago
What’s the end game for a red pilled man?
sadomasochrist 5y ago
Whatever you want, just don't expect anything from anyone and set your boundaries in stone. Tell me how that doesn't work for you and you'll see more and more why that's true.
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peskysquirms 5y ago
No such thing. Anyone fool enough to reincarnate here deserves what they get.
[deleted] 5y ago
no, after my latest experience all i want is pretty much pay for sex and leave out women from my life as much as possibile. my desire to have a family vanished in the air, at this point (and i'm 30) i'm all about business.
ex_addict_bro 5y ago
Few years older, having 5 kids looks like I finally understood what is it all about. What I'm considering is to stop fucking at all, somehow re-channeling this energy in some useful way. Constant monk mode, maybe. On the other hand, whenever the urge comes... on the other hand, women are shit in general. Being alone is gains for me.
[deleted] 5y ago
i feel you brother. To be honest, i've Always overlooked my instinct and dated women who i felt where nor virtuos (ie - they didnt add nothing new to the table to what i had to offer) nor loyal. That's the line i drawn - beauty fades, if they're not virtous nor loyal they can't be considered for anything else but a pump and dump
herrazki 5y ago
isn't that going full MGTOW ?
[deleted] 5y ago
i dont know. i have to admit i sympathize on some of the Whole "philosophy" MGTOW is about, but i'm so sick and tired of tags that i'm just rowing on my boat in the sea of bullshit i've around without caring that much
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kynikos997 5y ago
Not really. I don't like children and I don't want to get married. However, one day I would like to own a black on black GT2 or a turbo S.
ex_addict_bro 5y ago
There is no such thing as "family". Therefore, there is no such thing as "family alpha". Want proof? Just click u/TheFamilyAlpha .
Tasteless jokes aside... no such thing as "family". There is state, there is system of control (want to call it "The Matrix", be my guest, whatever). The system of control tells you whatever you want to believe in in order to control you (it was "old man from the sky" in the past, nowadays it is "science, evolution and infinite universe around us").
"The family" does not exist. At least not as you remember it, if you had one in your childhood.
There is the state, the system of control. It own us, as others pointed out in comments to my "we're mere subscribers" post, in exchange it gives us various privileges. It owns all the women too - in exchange for fucking them and letting us breed with them, it needs us to pay for our own kids.
I'm actually grateful the DNA tests are allowed in my country. My bros from France don't have such luck.
"Freedom"... yup, the so-called "freedom" does exist. Freedom from nagging whores, freedom from following the default blue pill programming. Even (especially?) if you two have children.
The whole "you promised before altar, you owe her this and that and you owe this and that to your children" mantra, repeated on MarriedRedPill... that's also bullshit. Another representation of some system of control.
I owe you absolutely nothing. That's my freedom.
I give you whatever I want to give you. That's also my freedom.
I give you whatever the state wants me to give you. That's also a way of keeping that part of my freedom that can be revoked by the state.
I owe absolutely nothing to my kids. They have the better half of my premium-quality genes already. If I tell them anything, anything about my approach to life's problems, to work, if I teach them anything - that's extra, that's added.
"But but but I expected my dad is going to give me this and that and I kept nagging him about it"... another system of control. Trying to control parents.
It's all bullshit. Free yourself. At least touch that small part of "freedom" that can't be really revoked from you by anyone. Feel it for a moment.
sanitypanacea 5y ago
thank you so much for this post and the links. this is a very hard time for me (unplugging and gonna start plating soon!) and this board is a fucking lifesaver fuck all of these anti boards eg "blue pill" and ex-red they all smack of the same stories that are anything but what's being said here
merry Christmas TRP!
​
Battagliare 5y ago
Lets say you are not a "nice guy" without blue-pilled leanings, your life goal is X. And you found a woman which can be usefull for you to achieve this X. Wouldnt entering a marriage with that woman (assuming ofc there is sexual relation, "love", experiece.. all that stuff, you got it) with prenup seems like a good idea ?
Its like a doctor marrying with another doctor which both of them idealizes to save more peoples lives or do some revolutionary stuff on medicine.
MilkMoney111 5y ago
I don't want to bore you with my story of when I thought exactly like you're thinking now, and what lead me here. I will just say that yes, you would think that to be the best decision. However, it's not. Anything a woman can "assist" you with is something you can do, and probably should do, on your own. You never want to rely on a woman to reach your goals. That is the most traveled path in all of history to ensure you fuck yourself over.
Never once think a woman will ever help you. She may ride along. But she isn't bound by any morals. And she will take your freedom away.
Battagliare 5y ago
Hmm, i would like to hear your story actually, if you have time.
MilkMoney111 5y ago
Sure thing man. I'll try to condense as much as possible.
I started university with the intention of dating casually, not taking anything serious. I made it a point to approach girls I found attractive. This was before TRP, this was just me telling myself to get out there and go after what you want. I approached a few girls but most never really went anywhere and I was starting to grow frustrated with how socially awkward the girls were (I was a good 10 years older than most).
I have always loved working out. I was big into fitness, so I hung around the university gym a lot. I caught the eye of a girl I thought was pretty, so I approached. She was one of the few girls that could actually hold a conversation. She was fit. She was friendly. She was down to make friends.
After getting to know her I realized we both really liked working out. We were both majoring in a medical field. And she didn't have social media. These were all good signs. When we would talk about fitness, she seemed so intrigued by the importance of diet. She took my word as gospel. And she would always meal prep for us.
So I see this girl with no red flags (at the time), was going to help me in my fitness goals, and was going to be in the medical field too. She checked all the boxes on paper. I thought exactly how you're thinking. It would be smart to add her to my life so she could help me reach my fitness goals (of competing), my life goals (of having ample amounts of fuck you money), and to raise my children.
Everything just seemed to make sense. Then I started seeing little red flags here and there. She didn't like when girls texted me but had guys texting her that she knew liked her. I didn't care honestly. I never once feared another man "taking" her. I just found the hypocritical behavior frustrating.
I found that she was an incredibly selfish person and nagged constantly. She grew up wealthy, I grew up struggling. I was good with money, she was an absolute moron when it came to finances.
She graduated before me and didn't work for a while. But she still cooked. I was paying the bills and groceries, going to school, and she sat on her ass watching Netflix all day. Then she would have the audacity to nag when I got home about having to cook.
I began to seriously dislike her. Just as a human. I never realized a person could be so ungrateful. I forced her to get a job to pay her half. Even working two jobs, she still struggled to make payments. She didn't apply to medical school the whole time I was finishing up undergrad. She just was a bum... but she cooked though.
Her nagging became worse and worse. I found out I was happier without her around. I would look for any reason to be gone. The relationship survived for a while.
Then I finished undergrad. I applied to medical school and got in... she applied and did not. This is when I really saw a hateful side of her. She didn't want me going to med school because it meant she would have to stay and pay her own bills.
In the end I said fuck you, went to med school, competed in a bodybuilding show, and fucked her hot coworker. All without her. The things I held on to were not real. They were all blue pilled "could-be" fantasies in my head. She was never going to someone I was happy with. She was never going to get anywhere in life. She was always going to be holding me down. She was always going to be making me feel like it's my fault. I would've saved more time, more money, more energy, fucked more women, had I just not settled with her and focused on my goals solo. She held me back.
The point is I was stuck in could-be land. And I realized after some years that nothing had changed, and would always be could-be land. It never would get to the point of it actually being real.
Edit: I just realized I left out a lot of shit. She changed man. The more into fitness she got, the more she desperately seeked validation from thirsty strangers on social media. The more she started leading other guys on. The more she started generally becoming a basic attention whoring girl.
Battagliare 5y ago
I think this is the crucial point about my question. When we see qualities similiar to ourselves in a woman, and if this woman is really into those, we just slowly get pulled into "could-be" land, we idealize the situations in our minds meanwhile in reality, there are other features of woman which actually destroys the whole point but we are stuck with our idealization and can not see those.
Thank you really for taking your time and writing your story.
MilkMoney111 5y ago
Yep, you nailed it. After rereading my story it feels sloppy and doesn't give the story in full. But you get the point: don't bank on "one day" or future promises. You end up broke, stressed, and betrayed when those promises don't pan out. Treat every woman exactly for what they are presently, never for what they could be. Potential doesn't mean shit.
_TheRP 5y ago
Over half of prenuptial agreements are thrown out. Child support and custody arraignments cannot be included in a prenuptial agreement. Some states do not allow alimony to be determined in a prenuptial agreement. She will get to use your money to fight the prenuptial agreement.
Still sound like a good option?
Deapluv 5y ago
Can confirm. In my divorce, 2 hours after my ex walked into her lawyers office for the first time, they faxed the judge for motion to transfer $18K to her for their legal fees. I literally paid for them to go after the pre-nup. And anyone who has experience with contracts will tell you, enough time and money and lawyers can break any document.
Battagliare 5y ago
Yeah because i dont live in US, i live in somewhere relatively less effected from this feminist shitstorm.
_TheRP 5y ago
Eh, I can't speak to other countries.
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Battagliare 5y ago
No captain has managed to sail his ship alone despite the fact that he is the captain, the leader.
mikesteane 5y ago
Robin Knox-Johnson
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Battagliare 5y ago
Yeah thats also a reasanoble arguement.
Btw i really dont understand why people downvote a question...
NorthLocation12 5y ago
What advice would you give to guys that want to have kids but not a deal with a nagging women in the picture.
saucierlol 5y ago
This. I am convinced I d be a great single dad. Unfortunately that is extremely difficult/nigh impossible in our society.
sadomasochrist 5y ago
Look for a woman with a pleasing orientation and don't expect to be in your kid's lives forever, only so long as she's attracted to you. Otherwise if you want to play the provider game, you pay the provider price.
dulkemaru51 5y ago
What if she covers up the tattoo of her ex's initials on our wedding? He meant a lot to her. So that's dedication, right?
DVidojkovic 5y ago
She tattooed a man's name that will be there for her temporary. That's a red flag in my head.
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sadomasochrist 5y ago
This is the greatest example of hypergamy and the lightswitch effect ever.
Next will be your name, then your friends etc.
Each time she was sure he was the one. Until he wasn't.
Avertus 5y ago
A gravestone gives you much more respect and dignity
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dulkemaru51 5y ago
It was a joke, but yeah it would've been hilariously extreme
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sadomasochrist 5y ago
Happens all the time honestly.
SKRedPill 5y ago
I know one celebrity who actually did this a while back.
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RedForEducation 5y ago
Tapped into some really experiences around me man.
The only marriages I've seen with longevity were from guys getting strange on the side. Every single noble man was divorced.
Every one.
For all the guys who want families, are they willing to be a bastard to do so?
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akzunamoon 5y ago
Thank you for that collection of comments. Personally, some of the best insights I get, are from comments.
Olram_Sacul 5y ago
Never ever in my fucking life.