Back during one of my blue pill beta days (2017), I went to an out of town trip to the beach with a group of friends. One of them, a woman who I think was attractive then, was there. Let’s name her Kate. I was not head over heels with Kate, but I knew she was sexual. I was doing beta game in hopes of finding a connection with her. I thought overtly expressing your emotions would lead to having a more solid friendship. Make no mistake, I was friends with Kate, with close to nonexistent intention on gaming her (even if I wanted to.) Anyway, for some stupid reason Kate had to leave 2 days earlier than the rest of the group so I offered to bring her home. We went on a 7 hour road trip, just the two of us. Me driving despite my growing fever, while she sits there talking about shit I never cared about. Silly, silly me. Again, in hopes that I may find something sexual/romantic, I did beta game. Kate overtly mentioned that I was a ‘hopeless romantic’ for whatever the fuck I was attempting to convey. I cringed in hindsight just remembering that moment, but it needed be to have committed that mistake. Earlier this year, I learned that my best bud (also red pilled) fucked Kate. He said it was bland sex. No hate, all game. Just a notch count.
Now on a red pilled mindset (2018), I hung out again with Kate for a group get together on Christmas with the same group of friends. I brought another buddy with me (also newly red pilled.) He was eventually introduced to Kate. Two days after Christmas day, my buddy tells me they went out and that he gamed her. The woman left her jacket inside his car. So predictable are women once you get to know their internal mental schemas, right?
What irks me, again in hindsight, is that I get nothing out of this 'friendship' with Kate. I get her company in exchange for my attention minus the intimacy and the sex. Not a good tradeoff. It’s one-sided and it does not serve me any purpose even on an intergender baseline level of friendship.
On a different social group setting with different people: just last night, there was this friend of mine, let’s name her Amanda, who I think benefited my status despite the lack of intimacy and sex between us (since Amanda is in an exclusive LTR, which I respect. I think her boyfriend is a beta, so there's that.) I would say that our intergender friendship gave me opportunities to meet her friends, and that she also presented me a positive image out of it. In the context of swallowing the red pill, I have been able to game her friends, making our intergender friendship beneficial. My attention and masculine image, in exchange for Amanda sending positive regards of my capacity for a possible LTR to her friends. We’ve been friends for around 5 years now and Amanda will be getting married soon. While I was gaming her friends, two of them mentioned that Amanda said to them that I am an awesome guy. Amanda shares to them (premeditated) that I used to be that sluggish guy back in college who was introvertedly unself-aware, but tells them how much I’ve changed since we’ve met again. I’m assuming my Ayahuasca journey and red pilled mindset led to her realizations. My red pill changes are notable through my physique, my mindset and my deeply rooted spiritual endeavours. In my mind, I thought of it as great leverage to spinning more plates. She was not overtly being a wingwoman, but rather covertly presenting me as a scarce commodity to her friends.
I would like to argue that not all intergender friendships are useless. Even if /u/rollotomassi states in TRM that they never work due to its limitations on sexual differences, I would argue that genuine desire to be friends with a woman (or anyone in general) creates opportunities, so long as you provide something valuable in exchange—in this case, my company. Funny how the script has been flipped from me valuing Kate’s company from 2017, to Amanda providing me with the right leverage for game. My friendship with Kate from 2017 was one sided, I did not receive anything out of it. Intergender friendships should be beneficial for both sides. So with that in mind, LJBF rooted on benefits can be worth your time.
If you have a red pilled mindset, women really do notice it. They compare you to other men outside the facilities of material wealth and status. Lately did I realize that having an alpha-red pilled-mindset is so much more powerful than alpha-no redpill-mindset.
Not all intergender friendships are useless.
turbospeedsc 5y ago
I do believe in have female friends i have two maybe three female friends, and when shit has hit the fan they had my back with unquestionable loyalty, but you have to understand they are different, they're more selfish than guys, so you have to know if both of you want something, they're going to think for themselves first, but if what they want is your friendship, they will lie, steal, cheat, and even kill for you.
In some ways women are more reliable when you ask them to do something, you just gotta keep it simple and make sure they have their means, by example if i tell one of the guys to pick me up at 8:05 at the airport, i can expect most of my male friends to be there between 8:00-8:15, on the flip side if my plane is late they will go have a coffee and wait , female friend would be there at 8:05 sharp, but i also have to be there at the time i told her or she will be stressed out. You just need to understand they're different, females can be awesome friends and allies.
Razkolol 5y ago
She presents you to her friends as “the introverted retard who changed so much” such a good wingman. Women don’t want a guy climbing to the top, they want the guy who’s at the top with 0 effort, that equates to ultra alpha genes. Work your ass off, get to the top, once you get there act like it was nothing and everything just comes naturally to you. That’s your end game, not “i went from living in a trashcan to multi-millionaire” that’s appealing to us, but to women it only gives them ammo in an argument to put you down. Your backstory is only a liability in female interactions.
The rest of the post it sounds to me that your female “friends” are using you for free attention. That rags to riches introduction is doing you more harm than good.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
Not true, many women want the raw diamond hidden in the mud for them to discover and keep for themselve. They want men that improve.
The thing is whatever you current level, you have to work on yourself to improve or just keep the level, so somebody that improve is something that people love.
Razkolol 5y ago
That’s a nice belief you’ve got there, but it’s unfortunately false. People in general don’t want you changing/improving/growing, they will try and stop it. Women especially, if they’ve put you in category they want you to stay there, it’s pretty simple, if you’re improving and she’s not you’ll likely find a better prospect. Nobody wants you changing or improving, they’ll feel bad for wasting their life. Tell your friends that work a 9 to 5 and play fortnite the rest of the day that you’re lifting 4 days a week and want to get jacked, let’s see their opinions. Or better yet, tell them about that business venture that you plan on starting, how supportive will they be? See what I mean? Or here’s a better plan, don’t tell shit to anyone and just do it. Instead of trying to put you down you’ll hear excuses on why they can’t do similar shit.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
You are actually right. I think both aspects are valid actually. IPeople want other people to be bellow them and to not improve so they can see how superior they are. But they also want to have value friends of power and they also want to see other improve over time as long as they can leverage that.
So the typical woman want to control you on one side but that you don't let yourself be controled on the other side. And we all know that in the end, the more attractive aspect is being an uncontroled, barely tamed alpha rather than a perfectly safe beta.
peacemakerzzz 5y ago
Won’t argue with this, fair point
askmrcia 5y ago
You're not friends with Amanda. You're acquaintances.
You were friends with Kate. That's the difference.
To further explan. Amanda has a boyfriend. You were not going on friends date with her nor were you telling her all your emotional problems. She is just a girl in your social circle that you have a good relationship with.
Kate? You were "friends" with her. You told her some cringy shit about yourself and that 7hr road trip was proof. You offered to leave early with her and drive her for 7hrs.
Most people don't know the difference between friends and acquaintances.
I have a shit ton of female acquaintances. Yea we meet up in group settings and they will put in good words for me to their friends. Sure we may call each other friends, but we both know we aren't friends.
People, especially redditors who have shit social skills will call anyone that hangs out with them or give them attention a friend. There's a fine line between friends and acquaintances
peacemakerzzz 5y ago
Then acquaintance is the term for it. I don’t tend to think of it in terms of binaries, but the point being is this, being friends with a woman opens you up to opportunities where you can get some value out of it (I.e. sex, social proof, etc.)
Brandono99 5y ago
Good post OP. I think intergender relationships are only useful when the woman's SMV is lower than yours, or if you're not attracted to her. Whether or not she has access to better looking/higher quality friends is also important.
Having female friends that are either equal or higher value than you? No. Wrong. Cut them off. That means you're doing something wrong, and if you stay it'll only cause problems.
Having strong and true male friends is the way to go to me. No woman is going to have your back if some dickhead on the street decides that he wants to kick your head in. No woman is going to help you lift or help you move your things from house to house. No female friend is going to give you consistent advice on how to improve your life- unless it involves drama or some kind of emotional narrative that she can latch onto for excitement or personal gain. Bros are for that and it works. The standards and "rules"/expectations are far apart for both.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
Are you really sure it is a great idea to spend your time trying to get into a fight ?
Many women go to the gym or run with their boyfriend or friends. Actually going to the gym, swiming pool, to a run or a hike is a typical activity people do where I live and there clearly as many women interrested as men. Doing sport together is maybe the easiest common activity you can have with a female friend.
As for moving things from house to house, not only it is a minor asset but women will do it for you too.
​
Would you have said that no many female friend do that sort of stuff, out of the few female friend you actually have none would do it, I would have had no issue except for the lift/sport stuff as all of the contrary I find many women to be extremely motivated on that sort of things and quite positive to do it with mens too.
apost54 5y ago
I have literally no idea why everyone here rips on platonic friendships with girls. There are girls who I'm not sexually attracted to who I still enjoy being around, and having friendships with them is a great thing.
Venny_1 5y ago
If you are friends with a girl, her girlfriends start viewing you in that lens as well. If you are fucking a girl, then her girlfriends start thinking sexually about you.
Ever seen how the IOIs increase tenfold the moment you enter a relationship?
AbusiveFather1 5y ago
Can someone please explain to me what her leaving the jacket in OP's friend's car mean? New TRP user here
Does it just mean that op's friend and the girl had sex, does it mean that the girl left it there for other people to see (marking territory/boasting), or does it mean that she wanted op's friend to contact her again and the jacket was pretense? Or neither
Nicolas0631 5y ago
It 100% depend of the girl. It can be just that she forgotten it because she is the kind of girl that tend to forget thing everywhere. It can be that she want to use it as escuse to see you again, he can be that she want to make you think of her or mark her territory.
While it is quite common for girls to truely forget things and that possibility shall not be ignored, many womens are also quite manipulative and will do it on purpose. My ex was both doing things on purpose for her benefit on one side and also simply forgot things everywhere too. She had both traits. Anyway the idea was that the boyfriend had to take care of all the mundane things for her so there was no point to care.
But if you think 5 seconds of it, a man that want to fuck a girl behave similarly, he will ensure the logistics feel natural while he actually did everything necessary for things to go smoothly.
peacemakerzzz 5y ago
Women do it all the time as an excuse to meet the guy again. It’s happened so many times in the past that women leave their earring in a guy’s bedroom. Women leave shit in their guy’s territory as a way to subcommunicate that they want to see him again. If you are red pill aware and this happens, the medium is the message.
Loze1 5y ago
I keep close to my girl cousins because of that. They are HB8s and well.. Birds of a feather so I can game their friends.
boy_named_su 5y ago
Only if she pays her way, invites you to social events, sets you up with her female friends, and doesn't waste too much time w texting
strikethrough123 5y ago
People are inherently selfish. Ask yourself this: Would you provide something in return for a service you’ve always gotten for free? You’d likely be offended. “I’ve been getting this for free all this time, now I have to pay? Wtf?”. It’s the same with women. Why would she give up her pussy when she’s been getting validated for free for weeks/months/years.
Pussy is their currency, time and attention is yours.
There are some rare cases where she can offer up something useful other than pussy, like in your case with Amanda, but those tend to be the exception.
bakamoney 5y ago
But most are. Don't waste time looking for unicorns.
yomo86 5y ago
Preach. 'Not all child molesters are bad people' is a nice analogy. Don't hamster your servitude. You pay one way or the other for a girl. Time, money, nerves. Time being the utmost high value currency.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
You pay in time for any relationship you have. If you don't even spend time together, the relationship vanish.
The core idea is you are together as friends because you actually pass a good time. Optionnally, from time to time you do make effort for your friends and that's ok as long as it doesn't bother you too much and you know they would do the same to you and they actually do the same to you from time to time.
4gliders 5y ago
Tried it.
I don’t recommend it. Turned out bad.
She was cool, but is better to not respect them. as much as this person was nawalt, AWALT was the truth and eventually caught up.
They don’t operate the same mentally and it gets fucked up real easy.
ElegantCyclist 5y ago
Correct.
[deleted] 5y ago
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orieva 5y ago
Dude, female friends for one can connect you to new girls. Also, they give you smv. Third, a fair female friend can give you insight in girl brains, as well as she can give you insight into your own. Point out flaws and such.
I've had platonic relationships (where I didn't want to fuck her and she didn't want to fuck me and we were aware of this) that had great benefits.
korkyshadow 5y ago
Never listen to a girl about girls lmao. They will ALWAYS say what makes them look good in your eyes.
good_guy_submitter 5y ago
This is 10% of what a friendship with a high iq male is like.
Being friends with women is like being friends with children. You're more useful to them than they are to you.
The only unique benefit is preselection if she's hot. But if she's hot you probably want to bang her.
orieva 5y ago
Of course, being the presupposition that all relationships must are purely expedient.
Ananonguy88 5y ago
I think this relates to "friendships" overall, not only intergender ones.
Just learn to differ time-wasters and down-draggers from quality ones. No wonder the quality ones are rare, no matter if male of female. The more reason for you to pursue and scope them because nothing benefits you more in life than a productive and positive influence from people of high value. I'd say it's the most crucial and obligatory pillar of any personal growth.
rambler429 5y ago
Exactly. Do you become friends with guys for sex? I don't. So does that mean I shouldn't have guy friends? Of course not. Being friends with someone just to get sex from them is a pretty shitty premise if you ask me. I've gotten social proof, job opportunities, all kinds of benefits from female friends. Some I fucked, some I didn't. It wasn't the basis of our relationship.
​
bakamoney 5y ago
Male - Male shittests are irrelevant.
There's no feeling fuckery from either side.
A guy complaining about another guy to his friends circle just sounds like a bitch.
Males don't get to have "muh rape/harassment" accusations.
bakamoney 5y ago
Well you dont want to fuck your male friend - or his friends.
rambler429 5y ago
I also don't want to fuck every female that walks or that I come into contact with.
It's called having A) Standards B) Self Control & C) Type.
People that only see women as potential sex partners and nothing else lack abundance mentality among other things. The fact that some people feel that you cannot be friends with women just blows my mind. Are you people that narrow minded?
Don't let ANYONE, male or female take advantage of you. I wouldn't be friends with a dude that was always just using me for something. A friendship brings VALUE to both parties involved. It doesn't have to be SEXUAL VALUE to be valuable. Befriending a woman solely for the potential of sex is creep behavior.
​
bakamoney 5y ago
Even if you don't wanna fuck them they can want to fuck you too.
Value - TRP says you git gud enough to not need anyone else. And go to guy friends if you do need help.
Every person that comes into contact with you isn't a friend either lmao.
Of course if a woman does bring value - sexual or otherwise. You are good to go.
But a) There should be nothing else you should need from them
b) Most women do not bring any other value otherwise.
mynameismcfly 5y ago
Being friends with a girl and being friends with another guy are two different worlds. I always fucked this up until I realized you cannot carry the same expectations between the two.
​
I think intergender friendships are a net positive if you approach them with the right mindset:
She is not your 'bro'
She is not there for you to spill your guts to
You are not her emotional tampon
She has to provide some sort of value (i.e. she's funny, brings her friends around, pays for drinks/ubers, etc.)
​
Where I've fucked up in the past is:
- expecting 'girl' friends to be like my guy friends (undying loyalty, understanding bro code, etc.)
- thinking that if I was a good friend she might realize I'm a good guy and sleep with me (LOL)
- being needy and annoying
​
Where I've had success in the past was when I:
- focused the time spent together on a positive experiences (catching up, group activities, sports, etc.)
- made sure she provided value and reinforced it positively (ex: "I like bringing Katie around because she always pitches in")
- didn't try to hit on her after we became friends (unless she made it clear she wanted to fuck)
​
In my experience, showing girls that I'm 100% okay being platonic friends (then letting them witness me game other girls) has made them more attracted to me. It's sort of a reverse psychology thing. For the girls who ended up not being attracted to me later (they wouldn't have fucked me anyway), they make for good friends to bring around when I'm trying to game new girls. Win-win for me. If you have a solid group of red pill guy friends who understand this dynamic, it's amplified and you'll always have girls who are dtf around (my entire 4 years in college lol)
​
It's been said a million times here how preselection works. In my experience having friends who are girls can only benefit you when you're trying to get laid. As long as it's not a beta friendship and you're not in the friendzone; It gives social proof, demonstrating you may be high value, and at the very least it's showing that you can interact with other girls positively, without being a creep.
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mineralranch 5y ago
Yeah I agree with a lot of this. I've noticed that you can be friends with girls too but under the very strict conditions that you set forth. They don't care about your shit and don't wanna hear it. They also only really stick around if you're positive or entertaining to them in some way. You can't just chill on the couch and watch TV like you would with a guy friend; it always need to be an "experience". They get bored and complain and it's frustrating because they are completely incapable of just enjoying a moment or the presence of another person. They can only act that way if you're already fucking them.
​
So yeah you can be friends with a girl, but they're honestly really shitty friends lmao.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
You know wathching TV or chill on the couch is actually an activity. Many people enjoy it, many do not. Most of the people I know in my social circle don't like to do it and that include a majority of mens. That the thing they do when they have nothing else to do and they are bored.
So it is really a problem with all girls or is it a problem that you didn't get to know the girl who would enjoy that ?
mineralranch 5y ago
Wasn't a specific situation in my life that I was discussing. I think you missed the entire point of my comment. And what exactly is the point of yours? You're just pointing out obvious things. " Some people like doing things, others do not." No shit.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
The whole difference between men and women friend seems to be sumarized as the fact you cannot chill on the sofa watching TV with a woman, on the opposite, women want to do interresting activities.
To be honest, I fail to see how you can expect anybody man or woman to do often an activity with you they actualy dislike if you don't provide something else on the side...
On the opposite I know women that have no issue just spending time with me without any string attached or expectation... So I fail to see how the situation is different between men and women.
mineralranch 5y ago
Chilling on the sofa is just an example. It's just an analogy to explain my observations of male and female friendships.
​
Of course, no one wants to hang out with you if all you ever do is sit at home and watch TV. Of course, no one wants to do something they dislike with another person. I don't get why you're making these assumptions. The comment is not about activities, but energy. Many women want to be emotionally stimulated constantly. They want to be excited, or thrilled, or whatever emotion that a person can experience that isn't boredom.
​
Now, in my experience, it's easier to maintain a male friendship because there isn't any need to constantly stimulate the other person. You can just simply be with someone and enjoy someone's company without any pressure to entertain them. This leads to deeper more stable friendships. You can be comfortable with the other person and share with them. These relationships are rare between men and women. Typically, the girl wants attention and the dude is hoping to build up enough brownie points to fuck her.
​
Is this always the case? No, but let's be realistic, guys wanna fuck and girls like the attention. The situation is different between men and women. Maybe you can explain to me how you don't see how it isn't? Now, we're two different people living different lives. So maybe my experience doesn't match up with yours.
Mangasbzo7 5y ago
TL;DR - Having female friends gives you the opportunity to fuck her friends
snowmoose1 5y ago
Didn’t even bother to read further than the headline. Go back to square 1 and read the side bar and come back post something that isn’t for cucks and BP’s.
tyronethejabrone 5y ago
Follow the whales. They’ll lead you to the dolphins.
uwey 5y ago
Hottest slut need ugly bitch to boost their ego, who would thought of that huh?
You need one key to open all the slut’s door, and eureka! You find all the youngest and moistest pussy you can and make someone pay and raise your kid. Claim them when they grow up.
Awesome
freshoutofgravitas 5y ago
Thats some george carlin level shit right there. . . I just lost some expensive bourbon out of my nose. Carry on, my dude. And comment more
AreOut 5y ago
Yes, but only if you are the one initiating them.
DropDeadTyrant 5y ago
I don't make female friends unless they come to me. I don't see the point if there's no chance in me banging. Maybe it's worth it in the real world. But, in highschool, there's no damn point. You attract more girls being around super popular guys than you do around super popular girls.
trpjnf 5y ago
I’ve experienced something similar. Wouldn’t say I’m really “friends” with these girls, but I do have a lot of girls in my social circle that are either dating my male friends or who are friends with my male friends. Going out to bars with a big group of people that is mostly girls (that you aren’t trying to game) is MASSIVE social proof.
Intergender friendships aren’t the same as intragender friendships. We really need a separate word for it, because men get confused and expect friendships with women to function the same way as with men.
SidewaysCircle 5y ago
The best intergender relationships you can have are with your friends girlfriends.
Your friends should be somewhat attractive and successful and so should their gfs/wife's. This also strengthens your friendship with your guy friend as long as he isn't a little bitch and assumes you are trying to fuck hks gf.
superyute 5y ago
and what kind of reasoning is this theory based on
freshoutofgravitas 5y ago
The mindset is useless without action. Provided your banter and energy with the FZd woman may appeal, a social (or silently implied) proof of virility may yeild far more results .
Just my thots.
womans_algorithm 5y ago
No man, friendships with other gender are wrong and blue pill cuck mentality. The best thing you can do is to spin plates and drop them when they want to get closer to you.
/S
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TheRealIsBack1 5y ago
Intergender friendships aren't terrible per se but you shouldn't go out looking for them. One of my coworkers which I befriended is female however she doesn't express feminine vibes so I am not attracted to her whatsoever. She's like a bro to me (raised by her dad and most of her friends are dudes). The biggest thing is to not expect anything from her, do not text her buddy buddy shit. However, she will sometimes try to bring up drama related shit to work which I barely acknowledge and act uninterested (prevents you being an emotional tampon) but at the end of the day, she's fun to hang out with.
Bonus: If she introduces you to her friends.
SeasonedRP 5y ago
This is truly pitiful. When Amanda told two of her friends you were "an awesome guy," here is how that conversation really went:
Friends: So is he hot?
Amanda: He's got a great personality. He's an awesome guy.
In the lingo used on this site, Amanda regards you as a pathetic beta orbiter and conveyed that to her friends. When you say you were "gaming" them, you mean you talked to them and they didn't run in the other direction. Wow. That friendship sure paid dividends for you. Neither Amanda nor her friends have any attraction to you. Frankly, some of this is cringe worthy.
It is difficult to tell whether you or Amanda's husband is the bigger beta here. Regardless, read the materials on the sidebar and actually accomplish something before arguing with well-established principles.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
If you are close to a woman, you are either fucking her or you are her beta orbiter. If your relationship is not one of these two then she is just an acquaintance.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
Who care of the term used.
In theory, all friends are acquaintances but not all acquaintances are friends, friend meaning a greater bond. How the bond is supposed to materialise ?
Maybe you do lot of things together and enjoy time with each other for one side. If you think of it any acquaintance can do just that.
Then the other thing is the friend out to sacrifice himself more for you than a pure acquaintance. Many discovered that their supposed friends where just acquaintance after all when the right circonstances arise when they had to test their friendship.
On the opposite some acquaintance of yours may be willing to make the effort because they have their own interrest in mind, maybe because that their character, maybe because what you ask of them isn't a big deal for them.
You can't have many friends be it men or women, I would say by definition, anyway. You can't devote a great share of your time to each acquaintance you have to make them into a deep true friend. You can't sacrifice yourself neither to a great number of people as otherwise it would all the time and by definition it would mean this is nothing special to you.
Most people have no friend actually by your definition. They only have acquaintance they call friend unitl the day they discover they were just acquaintance after all. They just didn't realised it yet. In particular for the one still young and at university or secondary school, just wait until you start working, get a family and maybe even move to another place... You'll see what happen, of your "true friends".
peacemakerzzz 5y ago
Then acquaintance is the term for it. I don’t tend to think of it in terms of binaries, but the point being is this, being friends with a woman opens you up to opportunities where you can get some value out of it (I.e. sex, social proof, etc.)