Summary:
I've never been to a bar or club with the intent of picking up girls before. I go out alone, have limited success, come home alone, but I'd do it again. You should, too, if you haven't yet.
Body:
A couple weeks back, I went out for the first time on my own to meet girls. For context - I'm 28, 5'8", 150 pounds at ~14% body fat. Not in great shape, but a damn sight better than a few months ago where I was a complete skinnyfat manlet.
I've never even tried to pick up a girl at a bar before. I've run some incidental game since finding TRP, got a few numbers, but screwed things up in the text game. My N-count is 1, from an LTR before I found TRP.
I drive to a bar that has good reviews on Yelp. I make my first and most crucial mistake of the night here when I park in a spot that winds up with my car towed (Mistake 0), but I won't know that until later on.
I check out the bar, but no girls catch my eye, so I walk to some other bars. The others aren't really any better, so I go back to the first one, which by this point has way more people.
Most notably, an HB8 blonde (Blonde) at the bar with her friend (Friend) who is maybe an HB5. I approach promptly, and open by talking to the friend first. I try some of the cold-reading techniques I've seen on here, and tell Blonde that I'm getting an accountant vibe from her. I'm not far off, as it turns out; she's into statistics.
I focus on Friend for a while, but tease Blonde a bit. I ask what she does for fun, and she winds up qualifying to me about some picture she drew that I say is OK.
”To be fair, I was tired and busy and I did it all in one day”
I try the ESP thing where I ask if she believes in ESP, touching her forehead for some initial kino, and I guess the number she's thinking of. She immediately deduces that if you make someone pick 1-4, 3 is the most picked. Blonde is smart, too. (Mistake 1) In retrospect, I should calibrate chick crack to education level, she had a master’s in STEM.
Suddenly, complications; a couple (BF and GF) has inserted themselves into the set, deciding they want to make friends with Blonde and Friend. Blonde is not paying attention to me but I try to keep some focus on stoicism and playing it cool, so I just listen to music and sip my drink for a while. I make nice with BF, talk about his work a bit.
I get BF to back me on pulling GF, Blonde, and Friend into a lying game - Truth or Dare with only Truth three times, and you are supposed to lie once, and everyone guesses which answer was the lie. We play it two rounds, with stakes on the second round of my seat for GF, who is in heels. The second round blows because they don’t want embarrassing questions anymore. I lie about the lying game. Nobody catches that I’m meta-lying, they all buy it.
I give up my seat after the round, explain that I meta-lied. (Mistake 2) Not sure what I was thinking here. Blue Pill, non-Machiavellian tendencies coming out here. Should not admit to lying, should give her the seat “anyway” when going to the bathroom or something - wanted to be standing for better positioning for talking to Blonde.
I try to escalate. I'm getting a vibe from Blonde that she's interested, but put off by something. I ask if Blonde thinks I’m an asshole. (Mistake 3) I shouldn't have asked this. If I'm going to try this, I should state it to gain some connection: “I seem like a real asshole, huh?” Something like what I've seen in speed seduction's "This would be really soon to kiss a guy, huh?"
Blonde says she thinks I think she’s dumber than me. This is true, because I assume that about everyone until they prove otherwise. I spend some time explaining that I don’t think she’s dumb, just not as smart as me. (Mistake 4) Obvious shit test is obvious, but I'm three drinks in at this point and not firing on all cylinders. That plus this being my first time, and I've shot myself in the foot a bit here.
I start getting shit from BF & GF about not buying Blonde a drink. I explain I’m a feminist, I don't buy girls drinks for attention. Hah. Blonde says all her exes bought her drinks. I point out she broke up with all her exes, maybe a relevant correlation for statistics girl.
I offer instead to drive them to her place instead of buying a drink Would save them more money from not having to Uber. Blonde says “I won’t ditch my friend,” “I don’t invite guys over to my place.” (Mistake 5) I didn’t read these signals well enough. These are huge green lights.
Feel myself starting to cave and lose frame, time to exit. Never done exit before, losing frame and a little too drunk, so I explain what I’m actually doing. ”You don’t like me enough, I’m out." (Mistake 6) I should have been covert, and falsifed some time pressure about having shit to do in the morning, get the number, exit, game later when alone and not being cock-blocked.
I walk back to my car, and Mistake 0 bites me in the ass. I realize my car has been towed. I go back inside, say fuck it I’ve been towed, offer her the drink. (Mistake 7) Don’t go back if you’ve blatantly NEXTed a girl, that’s stupid. (Mistake 8) If I’m coming back at all, don’t say I’ve been towed. LIE. My frame is in shambles.
Blonde refuses the drink, I say OK whatever, sit down elsewhere and order more alcohol. I'm walking home anyway, right?
I try not to pay attention to blonde but Blondes are my type, girls who can keep up with me set off my "she'd make a good mother" mentality, and it’s my first pickup.
I go to the bathroom, and some guy is talking to blonde. I ignore his presence and tell her to give me her number. (Mistake 9) AMOGing is all well and good, but she's already displayed disinterest. This Hail Mary shit isn't helping anything, I'm just showing neediness.
He’s like “lol talk to her first." I say “been talking to her all night, friend.” Blonde says that at one point in the night she would have, but not anymore. Fuck.
I walk home. Like hell I'm paying for a cab. It takes three hours.
Lessons Learned:
Mistakes were made.
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0 - Watch where you fucking park.
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1 - Calibrate your pickup tricks to what you learn about your audience.
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2 - Truth isn't appreciated, duh.
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3 - Don't ask, state.
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4 - Consuming alcohol does not help pickup. Know your limits.
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5 - Know what signals are actually green lights/IOIs that claim not to be.
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6 - Learn how to exit if you're in over your head... without burning your bridges.
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7 - Don't go back after NEXTing a girl.
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8 - Cool guys don't get towed. If you fuck up, don't tell a girl about it.
- 9 - Hail Mary, non-abundance mentality plays only hurt your mentality going forward.
At the same time... Holy shit, I created interest in an HB8 in one evening. She was considering taking me back to her place. My open was solid, I just need to work on my closing and stick to one drink. If you haven't yet, get out there and try it. The worst that can happen is you go home alone, like you would have been anyway. Maybe you'll even learn a thing or two for next time, and internalize some of what you've read on here.
radianceofparadise 8y ago
That was pretty painful to read, but at least you got a lot out of it. Stick with it.
Greek_Odyssey 8y ago
Liked the FR...we live and learn after all. Congratulations on knowing where you went wrong its the first step to self improvement.
Assuming everybody is dumber until proven otherwise isn't inherently bad like with power it's in how you use it. Use it to dumb yourself down in social interactions. It makes you relatable unless you are in a group of intellectuals.
Oozing intelligence makes people defensive the key is to leave them thinking that you're smarter than you let on it makes them want to know more. So next time try dropping nuggets of intelligence and deep wisdom in between bouts of nonsensical banter. It keeps the conversation light
ECoast_Man 8y ago
Good effort, and way to show some balls.
Nightwing has it covered pretty well, a couple points of my own -
Obviously the hailmary stands out, but I think you've learned your lesson.
Don't play too many "games" because it can comes across as contrived. I get you're wading into the water here, so whatever helps make you more comfortable. Eventually, you won't need these though when you can talk seamlessly.
Careful with the feminist line. It can work, and it seemed to here but you're running two risks - doxxing, and running into an actual "feminist" who will just kill the vibe. This is especially the case if you're going for Blonde perky tits and her 5 friend overhears, she is much more likely to be a feminist and then just ruin your chances because she'll get all worked up about it. I'm speaking from experience, and trial and error, avoid all talk of feminism (ideally, anything serious) when you're picking up at a bar.
My response to that BS from the odd couple would be even simpler - "I don't buy drinks, did you know alcohol is bad for you" with a smile. It's not brilliant, but it's quick, and would just as likely lead her to say, "well all my exes". Then you can smack it out of the park with what you said there about the exbf, that was the best line of the night.
[deleted] 8y ago
I need to do this instead of sitting at home reading theory. Why was mistake 4 a shit test and what would have been a good way of handling it?
SeekingTheWay 8y ago
It's kinda tough one to come back to, I would probably just ignore it
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
She's expecting me to qualify, say "oh, no no, I don't think that."
Alternatively it might be a comfort test, where that is what she wants to hear.
The great thing is that the right answer to both is to dismiss the test as silly. Another commenter suggested I use some Agree & Amplify - "Well yeah, and I think I'm prettier than you, too, but that doesn't seem to bother you as much. (smirk)" I considered saying something similar, along the lines of "Oh yeah, I like my girls dumb as a post."
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Jttoo 8y ago
I think the first thing you need to do is change your initial mindset. You went out with the intention and goal of scoring some action. You went out thirsty rather than out with a DGAF mindset.
Go out with the goal of simply talking to people and having some fun. Run your game, but DGAF, whatever happens, happens. No thirst, no needs, just out to have fun.
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
Well, my goal for the evening was to get out there and approach. I would have been quite happy with how things turned out if not for getting my car towed.
I did wind up having fun, overall, but I don't think being goal-oriented is bad.
SheriffBart42 8y ago
The fact that you're reflecting on all those mistakes will guarantee future success. Gj and gl
4benny2lava0 8y ago
Happens to the best of us. I only go to Bars alone. Its a good practice. Remember you probably will never see them again.
I always say im new in town, never say why. They ask what i do i tell them. They ask what I'm doing at work; I design and build shit.
Back to talking about them.
1_10v3_Lamp 8y ago
I made some of these mistakes last night while trying to escalate with an older married woman (44 F/Asian milf, smoking hot) whom I'd been making out with the night before. She wanted it so bad, and I wanted to give it to her. But I tried to escalate too fast, was honest a few times when i shouldn't have been, and became invested where I should've stayed aloof. If I wanted to put time in to mend those situations I think I could have, but remnants of blue beta told me "I can't convince her to cheat on her husband," and that's bullshit. She already did. She wanted a piece of sweet young ass and I didn't give it to her. I have a ways to friends, any info would be appreciated. I need to take TRP.
nia_kills 8y ago
Hahaha stay strong :p you'll laugh with this story in the summer
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
Heh, thanks. I was alternating between laughing and kicking myself for my mistakes on that three hour walk home. Probably looked like a crazy person.
OneDayIWillLearn 8y ago
Respect to you sir. Although a fairly drastic unfortunate scenario you will learn a huge amount from this as opposed to playing it safe. Plus it makes for a good story to share with others. Good luck in future ventures if I knew you in real life I'd definitely come along.
nia_kills 8y ago
One must suffer first to feel happiness!
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Congrats playing on hard mode. It takes balls. I could write an essay of feedback here but I'll just put a few points with practical solutions so you can focus your steps and not try to change too much at once.
With regards the drinking... sticking to one drink is an option. Though it's probably better to get watered down drinks and/or slip in a virgin cocktail here and there (great little mystery piece if you can do it with confidence and overcome any attempts to mock you for it that a beta male might try.) You could also order a shandy or a bottle of cider with a pint of ice as bottles contain less and the ice waters the drink down. Any of these are alternative practical solutions to avoid getting drunk too easily. Pick whatever works for you.
Never say anything like that. You never need to ask her opinion on anything you intend to do or seek her validation. You don't want or need it. You are already the shit. You want to kiss her, go for a kiss. You don't care if she thinks you're an asshole because asshole can be said in many ways with chicks.
"Do you always test whether a guy likes blondes that way?"
Let her fumble, then follow up with "It's a little too transparent. You should learn to be more subtle." (Cheeky grin.)
"It's her round/turn."
Translation: Please find a way to ditch my friend.
Translation: We'll need to go back to your place, but you'll need to find a way to do it that protects my social image.
So this is a matter of isolating then venue switching. Take her outside if you can drink outside. Off to stand at the bar, something like that. When you venue switch, you tell her to text her friend to tell her where you're going under the guise that you don't think it's right of Blondie to drag her friend away from what she's doing and instead leave her to catch up later. (This provides her the acceptable excuse she's looking for that she can justify her actions to her friend later.) Once you switched venues, grab another drink together. If you're buying her a drink through a rounds system, get her to buy you both a shot to do for "funsies." This keeps her overinvested in you. Once you're done, tell her you're done for the night and when she realises she's about to be left alone in a bar... she'll be eager accept the "come back to mine for a nightcap, then you can head on home." Or "I've got a fantastic bottle of X at my place, which you just have to try before you head home." The rest writes itself.
[deleted] 8y ago
This is all great advice, except for using the word "funsies". Never, ever say that word to a woman.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
The number of fucks you give is far too high. Please reduce for improved funsies.
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
I'm not really clear on how to isolate effectively, it doesn't get as much coverage as some other aspects of game. Is it as simple as just "Hey, come with me for a second." ?
On going back to my place - I don't have my own place at the moment, moved back in with parents while finishing my law degree. I'll keep that advice in mind for when I do.
That night, there was added complication in that Friend was in from out of town and staying at Blonde's place. Really uncertain on how to F-close with that going on. I know I could have gotten the N-close at least that night if I'd played it better, and I think could have shifted that to an F-close once I could fuck her without her friend in the next room.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Yeah, things never tend to play out perfectly in the field. Sometimes there are things outside of your control which will cock block you. It happens. You gotta shrug your shoulders and move on.
As a general principle you can apply most frequently... isolating is simply finding an excuse for a chick to follow you. Or even just walking off (sometimes that as a mysterious move is enough to get her to follow you out of curiosity.) So as a couple of examples I've used frequently "come help me choose a drink" is a good excuse to drag her to the bar. "Let's get some air, it's too hot in here" works to get her outside. "Let's grab that table" can separate her from a standing group. "I'm gonna put my pint/drink there." allows you to shift where you're standing. All of these things are statements and orders and they serve to also double check her level of interest. If she's not interested, she won't do as you say. When that happens, shrug it off and stick to your guns - i.e. go off and do something else.
Getting back to her place is all about finding the excuse to go there. It's all about protecting her social image to slip past the ASD. There's simple ones like getting her home safely and you engineer that by saying you're planning to go... if she doesn't bite you're going home alone... if she does then she'll say something like "yeah, I'm gonna go too." You then tell her you'll give her a lift home or you'll share a cab and go to hers first. All of this is all about appearing innocent to protect her social status. Remember, she needs her hamster to be able to use the excuse that "it just happened." So help her hamster out.
Other methods to get back to her place include getting her talking about her stuff. Things she likes to show off, a collection. What alcohol she has (this is fav of mine, she'll have something stupid fruity that you can't get at a bar) and you can show interest and agree you'll have a nightcap before you head on home. Coffee is also a classic... and in my humble opinion is just straight code for sex.
Remember: you're not intending to spend the night... it just happened. Women have individual interests that you can also cater to. Some chicks love special chocs - you can therefore want to try them. Others like to smoke weed, and while I don't do that myself... it's good way to get back to hers by showing an interest and then just not doing it. Something as stupid as showing interest in pictures she's taken from a recent holiday has actually worked for me before. Get to know her and figure out what she'd want to show you that could be passed off as innocent... then when you get there you can escalate and she'll show you a hell of a lot more.
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animal_one 8y ago
take two salt tablets and march on. at least you recognize where you went wrong.
BradPill 8y ago
Brutally honest, learning the (very) hard way - good job.
I'm not sure about the intelligence-part - I usually assume the same ("everybody is dumber until proven otherwise"), but a big part of pick up is about other things: body language, social skills etc. Focusing on (your) intelligence might be perceived arrogant - which only works to a certain extent. You were lucky to run into a smart girl, but in general I dumb myself down - also to get her talking about herself, by asking the right questions which then leads to banter... I have no idea if intelligence is perceived attractive in a bar-environment (in general) - maybe ask the experts here (which I'm clearly not).
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
We had banter about the kind of statistical analysis that lets Amazon send you advertisements for diapers and cribs before you know you're pregnant, just by tracking your browsing habits and correlating data.
I legit liked this girl, which was part of what sunk me. I was expecting to chat up some average intelligence girl who couldn't keep up.
always-be-closing 8y ago
Pro-tip
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Plenty of girls out there who can keep up in a conversation about data science.
There's a caveman 40,000 years ago telling his friends about how this girl from another clan actually got how difficult it is to keep leather stretched on a drying rack without puncturing it in order to fasten it to rack, but he passed his genes on anyway because he didn't decide she's the only one for him.
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
Oh, yeah, I'm not worried about it. It was a plus, but she's basically indistinguishable from any other attractive girl who can keep up with me. There are more of those turning 18 every year.
Besides, that's a feature I care about more for an LTR. I'm really only in the market for plates right now, so it's a small loss.
BradPill 8y ago
I got that - but by liking her so soon, you got invested in her - something she's used to from all other beta's. Maybe mentally notching her down (from an 8 to a 6) or thinking about any flaws that might show up later on (cellulite, having evil PMS) would keep you in check. In general, reversing roles (like you are the prize and she has to conquer you) should do the trick.
Still, good thing you went out - just don't drink and drive - you might kill her on your way to your place - that would be too unintelligent :)
BradPill 8y ago
Which reminds me of this article: https://archive.is/iELJD
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
Hah, yeah, I'd read the same article.
Greek_Odyssey 8y ago
I legit liked this girl...In my opinion this is where it all went to shit. Once you like a girl you lose all sense of outcome independence and abundance mentality. In other words you crash and burn.
Leave the scene and talk to other women if you were gaming a HB8 do not go below a HB7 otherwise you lose preselection points. Only return when you have enough clarity of mind to realize AWALT and you are the prize or to get a number
BradPill 8y ago
Yeah.... counter-intuitive, but when you feel you like her too much (already), ask her number and leave the scene to avoid mishaps. Then only contact her the next day. Easier said than done, though, as in the moment, you don't want to leave her...
BeyondDedication 8y ago
I'm reminded of this, can't fully explain why...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YaaZZN9VYs
BradPill 8y ago
Yep... always leave on a high-note. Pretending you have a late nite date lined up might intrigue her when you call next time...
Greek_Odyssey 8y ago
True its easier said than done.
In my view there are 2 solutions...consistent practice or have a woman fuck you up so bad you no longer care.
Option 1 is way better
Anything can be learned. You just need to realize you are going to suck when you start and take the time and the effort required to improve
1_10v3_Lamp 8y ago
I just got handed option 2. Do not recommend.
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
I actually managed to find some abundance mentality before getting TRP. I ended my first and only LTR because it wasn't working.
I spent over five years with that girl, wanted to marry her and have 2.5 children, everything. After casting those dreams aside because reality was staring me in the face, it's pretty easy to move on from some chick I've only talked to for a few hours.
Greek_Odyssey 8y ago
I congratulate you man. What you did took guts.
I know the feeling of crushed hopes and relationship aspirations all to well. But on the bright side the chances of contracting oneitis are slim to none. I like to think of the experience as a vaccine of sorts.
BradPill 8y ago
Agreed. Another trick might be to practice with 5's and 6's, as you're not that much invested (although you might be pleasantly surprised....): grow conversation skills, get a feel for what makes (modern) women tick (and tingle) and gradually move to 7's and higher. And even if you don't bed the 5/6's, you will learn from the interaction - especially analyzing it afterwards and writing a (private) FR.
Greek_Odyssey 8y ago
I like your idea. Basically first focus on having fun in social interactions then fine tune it to getting laid
BradPill 8y ago
Also, interacting with 5/6's confirms abundance. Plus, if a HB7+ sees you having a good time, it validates you - and might make her even jealous, as what many people do not realize: many hot women are ignored, just because many men perceive them to be out of their league (self-defeating...). So, if you actually start talking to her (7+'s) and can control your thirst and hormones, she will actually appreciate that - also because she likes you 'having balls' (hehe). You still might screw it up, she might prove to be a gold-digger, a narcissist (though you usually only find out much later) or a lesbian - in the grand scheme it doesn't matter as you engaged and learned from it - it is just a number's game (pun intended).
Greek_Odyssey 8y ago
Having balls gives you alpha points and places you in the alpha fux category. Now its just a matter of holding frame
Controlling thirst and hormones also gives you a sense of mystery and aloofness. Most guys just open with instant validation.
This approach piques her interest and curiosity and subject to frame and game its more likely to make her invest in you more until the point you feed the hamster by telling her she's beautiful. Then you're more or less sunk since you fall into the category of every other guy she's ever met.
Some lesbians can be gamed its just harder than your average chic. All that's needed is stoic frame, comfort generation, and experience because there is no room for error on this one
edit: forgot to add high SMV is also a prerequisite
0io- 8y ago
A couple of tricks that will help you with white lies: When you walk into the bar tell the bartender that you're the designated driver for a group and ask for a club soda in whatever glass they serve Gin & Tonic in (or a martini glass, or whatever kind of bar you're in.) Many bars will actually give you free non-alcoholic drinks in this situation. Tip the bartender a couple of dollars per drink and he'll be totally on your side. If you do get a drink for a girl get your drink in the same glass as hers if you want.
You'll go much further in pickup stone cold sober and you can make a better decision about whether the HB8 is an 8 or a 6 through beer goggles.
Don't start drinking Coke or Ginger Ale or Juice, it will make you fat. This will also save you hundreds or thousands of dollars if you are going out to bars a lot.
[deleted] 8y ago
Well done. Really. Going out and doing something like that still scares the shit out of me. Good analysis.
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
If it scares the shit out of you, you should try it... that's the only way it'll get more normal.
I had been to bars to hang with friends a couple of times before this, and if I hadn't had that experience I'd have felt way more nervous. After this, I think I'll be more comfortable next time.
[deleted] 8y ago
Of course you speak the truth. It's the sort of thing where I know what's right to do, but I'm a fucking chicken.
How do you know end up as the weird guy sitting in the corner by himself?
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
IDK man, you kinda have to just grow a pair and approach. The sooner the better. I approached literally as soon as I realized I was attracted to Blonde. It's the same self-discipline it takes to step into a freezing cold shower, or put the soda down and get a cup of water instead.
If it helps, remember that your brain is wired for social anxiety in a tribal culture, where being ostracized means being left alone in nature and probably dying. You don't live there. Your brain is lying to you about how bad the consequences will be, because it's confused.
[deleted] 8y ago
Fucking chicken and weird guy in the corner. Buddy, you are weighing yourself down with your negative self-talk before others have even noticed you.
It's okay to be weird, awkward and all that jazz. You don't expect you will be this socially advanced barfly spitting tingle-talk the first time you go out solo. Like everything else it has its learning curve.
The whole wallflower sitting akwardly in the corner is all about how you behave and come off. Negative self-talk is a self-fulfilling prophecy for that stuff.
[deleted] 8y ago
Thanks, you're so right. It's an issue I've been fighting as long as I can remember. I'm doing the thing where I forget about all the positive stuff I'm capable of. When I'm in my element where I'm comfortable things go well and I act with confidense, more so than with strangers at least. My boss even keeps joking about girls only coming to my office to talk to me, even if their issue is tiny (i do IT support).
My 2 biggest hurdles are confidence and how I feel like I need validation from girls and not myself.
I've come a long way trying to get rid of the habit of negative self-talk, but it shows its ugly face again when I'm situations I'm not comfortable.
[deleted] 8y ago
It will be okay, we just keep at it because we know where we will end up if we stop. Never stop. We are also the only ones to really know how much we have progressed, take pride in that.
Playing to your strengths is always time well spent, especially for confidence. I'm far more comfortable in day game than I am at night game, suits my personality better. However, we need to face that ugly face as much as possible but still remember to take time to recharge ourselves so we don't get depressed and shit.
It's all about taking things a step further. This summer I couldn't even say hello to strangers. Now I can approach anyone if I have a set goal in mind. I was a neurotic mess. Now I don't hesitate as much, nor rationalize myself out of things.
You want to reach a state of mind where you take enjoyment in the process of becoming where doing matters more than the results. The approaches I make that turn out the worst? Those make me laugh the most afterwards.
It's crucial man, remember to have fun, relax and laugh when you fuck up -- cause that's for sure, we will continue to fuck up. The more we fuck it up, the more things we know not to do again.
DarkuSchneider 8y ago
Good report man and good first trip into the field, sorry about your car getting towed, live and learn, spin it into a fun tall tale to tell. Most of my friends are married and don't go out much so I have to solo most of the time and it makes it a little harder unless you are comfortably social which I was not at first. You did way better than I did and likely some others, you have taken the first step into a new world. Like you said you have nothing to lose by trying, just that puts in you a tier above many men now days.
Some old salesman phrases that apply to many things including game: 'If you don't ask for the sale the answer is always no. ABCs = Always Be Closing'. Do not be afraid to fail. FAIL = First Attempts In Learning. NO just means Next Opportunity. Have fun man.
Letsbeserioushere 8y ago
Your ability to self-reflect and acknowledge your mistakes is great. If you continue to work on your game and apply the same level of analysis shown here, I think you'll do very well for yourself.
[deleted] 8y ago
We've all been through worse, brother. This is as good of a starting point as any. I just have a few notes that should help you in the future:
That "you think you're smarter than me" test is tricky, because it SEEMS like a shit test, but it's more likely a comfort test. The whole issue probably cuts really deep to the HB8 - "Blonde with a Master's Degree" probably gets disrespected intellectually an awful lot, and she was hoping you'd be different (the goal of any test). Next time it comes up (and it will - a lot of smart women feel disrespected intellectually), your response should be to agree and amplify: "I also think I'm prettier than you, but you don't seem as mad about that." That will clue her in that you're fucking with her, because clearly she's prettier than you. She'll be smart enough to put two and two together. I think missing this one is where your night derailed.
However, you still PROBABLY pull her if you offer YOUR place instead of hers during the "buy her a drink" situation. The feminist line was pretty funny, but if they insist on breaking your balls about it, that means they're not buying it. My read on the situation here is that the couple is TRYING to get you laid, albeit with conventional tactics like drink-buying. I'd have probably called them out as a clever way to escalate at the same time: "Alright, since your new best friends are clearly intent on breaking my balls about buying you a drink, I'll make you a deal: If we get to the end of the evening and I still think you're cool, I'll buy you and [hb5 friend] a drink back at my place." It's ok to recognize social queues - don't make the mistake that most guys make and think of this as "breaking frame". You're allowed to be observant! You can also agree and amplify if you get stumped here: "See? This is how it happens. First they want you to buy them a drink, and before you know it, they want a house."
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for, thanks!
I thought at the time that the smarter-than-me thing was more of a comfort test, but I know that how I handled it, I still blew it. The only thing I could think that I should have done differently was treat it more like a shit test and pull something like pressure flip or agree and amplify. Other hindsight quips I thought of, "I do. Do you think you're smarter than me, then?" "Oh, yeah, I like 'em dumb as a post (shit eating grin)."
As for drinks, yeah, I figured that one out myself. >.> My game had a clear negative correlation with my BAC.
My place... I'm living with my parents, saving money while finishing up my law degree. I don't feel like that's really an option atm. That's why I offered to take them back to Blonde's place.
[deleted] 8y ago
I have a feeling that this might have been sniffed out initially, and that's why there was pressure for you to buy her a drink. HB8 probably has a lot of experience with "loser guys" who don't have any money. The buying a drink thing might have just been a test to see if you were in the same boat.
That said, a lot of people in the under 30 crowd still live at home, so it becomes another one of those "top 20%" situations where they just expect a potential guy to be different.
RedDeadlift 8y ago
Very nice FR, and well done getting the interest from an HB8!
A few comments:
Instead of spending time explaining to her, your response could have just been "I assume everyone is dumber than me until proven otherwise." This frames it so she should qualify her intelligence to you.
Can you further explain these green lights? (It's late where I am so maybe I'm just slow right now).
Definitely a mistake, makes you seem butt hurt. This is the point that you should have probably gotten her number and left saying you had more important things to do.
Hindsight is 20/20 of course. Great learning experience, thanks for sharing it.
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
On the green lights: with how she said it (smiling, direct eye contact), it was clear she was considering ditching her friend or taking me back to her place. I didn't mention staying after dropping off Blonde and Friend, she got to thinking that on her own.
I've read many times on here that "I'm not going to sleep with you" is just about the clearest sign that she's thinking about sleeping with you that you can get. For whatever reason, I didn't have that internalized at the moment.
RedDeadlift 8y ago
Ah yes that makes perfect sense now. Yes, the worst behavior is indifference. If she is saying things like that then that means she is thinking about it. Especially if he body language shows it.
FireFight 8y ago
Do you or anyone else have any idea on how to handle what she said in mistake 5 how she doesn't invite guys over? I would not have taken it as an IOI at first glance
ToSeeAndToHear 8y ago
If I could do it over: I'd smile, nod, "Sure, whatever you say." Keep going like she didn't say it.
[deleted] 8y ago
What do you say when a girl says, I don't take guys back to my place?
SeekingTheWay 8y ago
"Then let ME take YOU there, that way it's ok."