Edit: Don't miss the forest for the trees guys. This is a post about a female's behavior/decision making and why it disqualifies her moving forward.
Being "the prize" is excellent for your mindset, success rate, overall attitude etc. It's something to aspire to for newbies and something to relish for vets.
PSA: Being the prize doesn't make you safe. It just changes the game.
Yesterday I had a newer plate over to cook dinner. I told her to bring wine. She brought wine, and liqueur, and candy (wtf dumb dumb? I don't eat that shit); plus her A+ woman game.
This night was round four.
On night one we went to multiple bars. I escalated. Kissed. Suggested her place. Overcame ASD (we don't have to hook up). Banged. Played indifference. Genuinely didn't care. Successfully plated.
She exclaimed how happy she was that I was a real man and not a little pussy. I was not surprised, of course, I am the prize...
To this point she was a sweet, submissive, feminine, healthy/athletic chick who volunteers in the community and has her shit together.
Last night, out of nowhere she stops the convo and leads into a pre-planned "we need to talk" moment.
"I should have told you this before..."
Oh fuck me, I don't like where this is going.
Long story short, three years ago she contracted HSV 1 (oral herpes) on her genitals (rare but possible) when a dude with a "cold sore" went down on her.
She started crying (bullshit). She said she felt horrible for not telling me, but things just happened in ways she didn't expect them to (no responsibility can be a good or bad thing).
She kept saying how hard it is for her (no surprise, she's the center of the universe) to talk to people about it. It's such a burden on her and her sweet caring little soul (gtfo).
I sat there silently. I was pissed off and wanted to tell her to leave, but also wanted to get every bit of info out of her I could.
The info I calmly gathered was that HSV 1 has a 4% chance of being transmitted without an outbreak (She had no visible lesions) and that drops to 2-3% with a condom.
EXCEPT she blew me like there was no tomorrow KNOWING she carried the oral herpes virus and contracted it herself when some piece of shit went down on her KNOWING he had the virus.. making her a piece of shit as well.
After I verified the info on my phone to the best of my abilities and had all of my questions answered, I told her I need some time to think things over and it would be best if she went home.
She is now demoted to level 0, unworthy of sex, never to be promoted again. She did not protect herself or me from STDs. She can not be trustworthy. She was selfish and weak (expected) but I made the mistake of letting her blow me unprotected and never asked about any STDs because I was focused on getting the close on night one.
A simple question might have peaked her emotions and led her to divulge the info I needed up front.
While I know tons of people carry HSV 1 and I could have previously contracted it from something as simple as kissing, it was still my responsibility to take care of my shit and I failed because I was focused on being the awesome guy she would want to fuck. Being the prize in her eyes didn't protect me from shit. To really be the prize, I needed to be my own future prize and protect my own investment better.
Luckily it's not AIDS or some other horrible monkey buttsex-itis. I'll get tested and probably be clean.
If I'm very unlucky, it's not the end of the world.
Lesson learned. Adjustments will be made.
Either way, and I can't stress this enough, she has to be a goner. Even if I test positive and risk nothing by continuing to see her, she has proven herself unworthy.
Next time it could be a much more detrimental lie or withholding of the truth. I'm not surprised that she put her interests above mine. Maybe she just wanted some dick to start with. Once she thought she could lock me down she felt bad because she had to tell me to try to move things forward in the right way. Too late bitch.
I'm not even positive what all the takeaways are here other than:
Knowing you're the prize to them is great. Being the prize to yourself is where it's at.
Be your own mental point of origin. Your frame, not hers. Her crying and pity party didn't work on me because I've done my reading. She can fuck right off.
Ask about STDs? Not sure on this one but I wouldn't think you would lose any attraction by caring more about your health than you do about getting a little pussy.
Wrap it up. I'm probably going to be ok because I did wear condoms. The blowjobs concern me but you gotta live your life.
Who the fuck knows? Chime in if you have thoughts.
Edit: Reference for new guys https://www.forums.red/p/TheRedPill/3755/the_bitch_management_hierarchy_study_guide
hazaraMoghul 5y ago
I have HSV and I am a male health professional. Honestly it means nothing to men, it does not hurt men at all (can cause cervical cancer in women). In most cases women carry them, and spread them to men, more women have HSV then men. There are no treatment, you just your immune system to control it. Kids under 8 can get vaccine but no guarantee.
Self-honest 5y ago
Thanks for the heads up. It is certainly stigmatized. Good to hear from so many people that it's really no big deal.
civilizedfrog 5y ago
Genuine question.
At what point is it safe to ask her if she is clean? Won't asking this during seduction phase be counterproductive?
[deleted]
drSpine 5y ago
I usually ask RIGHT before the first penetration. Much more to gauge her facial reaction than her verbal one.
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Ananonguy88 5y ago
I haven't tested myself and I'm pretty sure I have it. Most of the population has it and judging by the kind of plates I contacted I can be happy if it is only HSV. If a girl is this "promiscuous kind" saying it lightly, there is 90% chance she has it. The worst thing is that I went oral on some and it can cause Kaposi sarcoma. Mouth, nose or throat cancer.
I hope I made your day, good luck bro.
Self-honest 5y ago
Haha good to know man. I love pussy and I like enjoying it in every way possible. Probably need to chill on the oral until I vet a girl for a good while.
I guess we should go ahead and assume that 90% of girls have it then. Which means basically all girls have it. Classic AWALT ratio.
123InigoMontoya123 5y ago
Just because it's HSV1, the "oral herpes virus," it doesn't mean that she has it on her mouth. HSV1 PREFERS the mouth, while HSV2 PREFERS the genitals, and that's the one you gotta watch out for. However, you can have either strain of the virus settle in either area of the body. So, if all she did was blow you, then you are at 0% risk of contracting the virus on your shaft, bro.
If you hadn't penetrated her vagina by this point, then you're 100% clear of risk and shouldn't stress. It sounds like she actually did the responsible and courteous thing by telling you before hand, and was planning on fucking you that night.
Also, like everyone has been saying in this thread, HSV1 is a very mild condition that you probably already carry, just like everyone else. And as you already know, the rate of contraction for genital HSV1 is laughably low, and if you do get it, you'll most likely only have one outbreak in your entire life.
I used to be scared of it too, but after having dated three women in a row with oral "cold sores," I embraced the cold reality. I've made out with at least 3x as many women as I've fucked, as have you. I've fucked about 50 women. This means that out of the 150 women that I've made mouth to mouth contact with, and going off the CDC websites statistic of a 66% population wide infection rate, 99 of them had HSV1. 99 women had mouth herpes. Guess how many of them disclosed that to me? Fat zero, apart from the girlfriends. I've had to come to terms with that.
Also, it wouldn't hurt for you to reach out and thank her for telling you, because she sounds like a good human being.
Self-honest 5y ago
I fucked her a good 13-15 times before she told me.
It was nice of her to tell me before we fucked THAT night, but too little too late in my opinion.
I definitely thanked her for telling me in person. I don't get why everybody is so willing to dismiss this red flag. She proved herself to not be worthy of investment by doing something that had her stressed out and in tears (because she knew it was fucked up but she did it anyway).
drSpine 5y ago
This is not a red flag. You don't have enough experience to see this now.
You should keep her as a plate while leveling up.
Self-honest 5y ago
You have no idea how much experience I have or don't have. At a minimum this would disqualify her from ever being promoted past plate. How do you not see the major character flaw? What if she catches something more serious next time? What if she has the flu but wants to see me? What if it's birth control related? Seriously anything that matters, she has proven her default behavior already. There's nothing wrong with fucking other girls instead.
whatsthisgarg 5y ago
Being the prize makes you a target. I came to the same conclusion after something like this, but I wasn't so lucky: she pretended I gave it to HER! (she's the Jewish American princess in this post); what she did was way beyond gaslighting.
What are you going to do, tell her to stop and get a full history? lol But it was astounding that she would do the thing that had the highest relative risk right there on the first night.
And then it's really bizarre that she would reveal this information at that late point in time, and not just keep it a secret. Most likely she thought it would be seen as some kind of really amazing and brave thing for her to do, and you would be "impressed", I guess?
If you and I lived in the Blue Pill world, I might say something like "she told you (eventually), and that's worth something, give her another chance" but in the Red Pill world, the way I see it is 1 strike and you're out. There are thousands more women.
btw herpes is no big deal; it's really just a minor skin condition. bottom line is you won't get a blow job when you have an outbreak. Or you only get just the tip sucked (yes, it has happened). I have literally never had a woman say no, and I have had women pursue me knowing I had it, knowing they would be at risk.
That last thought there, coincides with the tl;dr of that post I linked: women are animals.
Self-honest 5y ago
The way I see it, she was so caught up in her feels night one (I literally charmed the pants off of her and it was fucking fun for both of us) that by the time I was inside of her she was willing to do anything to keep the good feels rolling. So when it crossed her mind she just hamstered it away.
Later
and I would be "impressed"
She did say she thought one of three things would happen:
1) I would tell her to get the fuck out.
2) I would be understanding and move forward with her.
3) I would tell her I have it too and move forward with her.
I think she was hoping for option 3.
Exactly.
Hundreds at least. Haha.
I liked the post when you wrote it. Totally relevant with TONS of examples. Great work as always.
[deleted] 5y ago
Herpes as in cold sores? If you've kissed more then 5 chicks in you're life you're a carrier.
Am I missing something? why are you so upset about cold sores? something which you almost certainly already had?
Self-honest 5y ago
She has it on her genitals. I fucked her multiple times on three different occasions before she told me about it.
I know I probably carry it. You can get it multiple times via contact an infected area via yourself or someone else. I don't necessarily want an outbreak hotspot on my junk if I have the choice. She knew she needed to tell me up front but didn't.
123InigoMontoya123 5y ago
Tbh, I'd rather get it on my junk than my face, since you don't have to wear it in public. Also, if you get it on your junk you kinda luck out, since it only flares typically 1-3 times per lifetime. It's not a red flag to so many of us because we accept that two thirds of women have it and you'd be handicapping yourself if you use it as a disqualifier.
And why does she necessarily need to tell you up front? Like I said earlier; if you've kissed 100 girls in your life, 66 of them had oral HSV1, regardless if they knew it or not. How many of them told you up front before you landed your lips on them? "Before we continue, just know... I've had a cold sore in the past." That'd be ridiculous. None of them disclosed to you and oral HSV1 is 3x as infectious as genital. You found a fucking saint in this girl.
Self-honest 5y ago
The fact that she felt she should have told me up front, but didn't signals future problems.
I don't care about HSV 1. I probably already carry it. I don't want it on my junk though if I can avoid it.
Saint = Unicorn like praise.
123InigoMontoya123 5y ago
Hey brotha, I'm not trying to argue with you nor am I calling her a unicorn. I'm honestly trying to make your life easier. You're gonna end up narrowing your pool of women by a huge margin. And I know there's a stigma surrounding genital HSV1, but if you fear it, then you'll never get a blowjob ever again, because they all have cold sores on their mouth.
Self-honest 5y ago
I think we agree. I'm literally saying that this girl's behavior (feeling like she needed to tell me, but not telling me, then crying and trying to manipulate me ie protective instinct) signals an issue that could replay as an unwanted pregnancy or anything else more serious in the future. Maybe I'm wrong though.
123InigoMontoya123 5y ago
I didn't think of that. But, girls cry pretty easily and over simple shit. You know how bad they are with rejection, and her guilty conscience made her stare that bull in the eye. There was a good chance you'd turn her away and she knew that.
I think if she was truly manipulative, then she wouldn't tell you at all, wait until you got infected 5 years from now, then accuse you of giving it to HER. That'd be some dark triad shit right there.
Self-honest 5y ago
You're not wrong bro. That's what /u/whatsthisgarg is talking about in his comment and specifically in his post he links there.
whatsthisgarg 5y ago
Not 5 years, 5 days! Like I said, it was way beyond gaslighting. Whatever it was, she put on a master class in manipulation and mind-fuckery. It probably happens more than you think.
Sex is dangerous. btw, I hope everybody knows, you can get an outbreak on your sac or pubic area, and no condoms cover that.
123InigoMontoya123 5y ago
Haha damn, bro! I just finished reading your link; I got some good laughs out of it.
RiskyRewarder 5y ago
Meh, 90% of Americans have it by age 50, and it's not really a big deal except it can be ugly.
Self-honest 5y ago
For sure.
I was already aware of the frequency in the population and wasn't all that concerned. She was stressing how it's not a huge deal (hoping I would sweep her risky decisions under the rug).
It would be easy to just rationalize forgiving her and move forward with our arrangement (because it's not really that big of a deal).
If I did, her specific default nature would burn me at some point. Next time it might be an unwanted pregnancy or something else way worse than a little skin condition. I was just pointing out the red pill perspective in this situation.
I do appreciate your comment though. It's reassuring. I'm sure there are plenty of other guys out there who have irrational fears or concerns surrounding the stigmatized HSV.
chrisname 5y ago
AFAIK the odds of getting oral herpes on your genitals are lower than you said because you probably already have it, and I don’t think you can get it twice. She got incredibly unlucky. Most people are infected with HSV1 in childhood.
Self-honest 5y ago
She did get unlucky.
Apparrently from what I've read, you can get infected again even if you already have it, IF you have contact while the virus is shedding (usually only happens if there is an outbreak but can happen without one).