As a reader I’ve found a lack of the content that got me to the point I’m at now, so my intent is to keep positive influences in the community. Most truly red pilled men are likely too busy to check up on this content unless there is financial gain, which is disappointing, but understandable. (If you’re busy spinning plates, lifting, and doing other misc. self-improvement there shouldn’t be much time left for this content.) That said, I’ve found an example of behavior the community may be able to learn from with some unique perspectives I’ve only seen in Korea. The example we’ll use here I’ll be referring to as “Broccoli,” or “Bro” for short.
Broccoli for better or worse follows typical blue pill behavior with the cookie cutter background and political beliefs you’d expect; extremely left-leaning, puts women on a pedestal (examples to follow), overweight, lacks drive for just about everything, and too “shy” or “anxious” to even text other men for things he wants. His LTR moved in with him after \~4 months, where he agreed to her living rent free during her stay—to include a time period of a year past their separation. To clarify, I mean he agreed to let her live with him for a year after their break-up without paying rent. According to him she didn’t cook, clean, perform sexual acts, and actually spent \~$1,500 of his money per month. This along with other oddities, such as her proclaiming she “should be treated like his queen,” and he should “worship her” left me feeling somewhat obligated to take him under my wing. I wish I could say this ended well, but...
After learning his fiancée contributed basically nothing to the relationship, I found my first example of true beta-bux behavior I’d seen in someone I’d considered a friend. For the record, both Bro and LTR were solid 3-4s in SMV. After finishing his game of pool for our team, Bro stated his LTR was tired and wanted to go home, so he left. There were a few games left for other members of the team, so everyone thought it was rude, but no harm-no-foul really. A few discussions with Bro revealed the truth of his home life, which wasn’t much of a surprise that an overweight man with no aspirations wasn’t getting anything from his LTR, but it allowed me to plant some TRP seeds. About a month of these conversations got him to finally realize he was being used (after a financial review where he found his fiancée used their joint account to pay for rounds of drinks, etc.) He “blew up” and started hitting the gym with me and got on a pretty harsh diet, where his confidence increased quite a bit. He’d told me she had a month to move out, which seemed excessive at the time. About three weeks in he apologized to her and lost any respect she’d gained. While I was disappointed, there was still hope that gains would eventually get his confidence up enough to let her go.
To be completely honest, Broccoli was a big boy, and he got some great gains in the \~8 weeks or so we’d trained together—more gains than I got in a few areas. This was a point of pride for me that my training gave some results. Another blow-up came up where Bro’s fiancée came home at 3am (where I’ve since learned she was fucking some other guy since she had 0 respect for our poor Bro), and his LTR woke him up by slapping his face to demand he make her ramen. After relaying to my girl my relief they hadn’t gone to drink together (because I assumed Bro’s LTR drove his car home drunk) I got a text from Bro that said “Thanks.” Apparently my girl messaged his, amused by the 3am adventure, but his LTR wasn’t as amused. She yelled at him for talking bad about her actions, which blew a fuse for him. He told her to get out, which she didn’t even take seriously. A week later she was still there, so he went to another city for the weekend to avoid dealing with the situation—where I assume he stopped hitting the gym.
Once he returned, she flipped everything on it’s head. He blamed me for their break-up, blamed me for shit talking her, for him shit talking her, etc. and cut contact in an attempt to get her back.To be honest this wasn’t the biggest loss for me, as he was quite the burden to deal with. His constant complaining, his fiancee’s influence on my girl, and general anxiety issues were a pain, but I feel some sort of loss in my inability to free him from manipulation. This experience taught me a lot, with my girl leaking his LTR’s constant flings with other guys, and verbatim saying “[LTR] just wants a free home, she doesn’t care about him. She is just waiting for the next guy to pick her up so she can move on.” I have more “Korean wisdom” of her just outright admitting AF/BB concepts, but they don’t fit in with this story. In summary, you can’t win them all, and you’re probably better off just doing your own thing. Realize that trying to teach a blue-pilled guy these concepts may end in a ton of drama and shit you can easily do without. Dropping beta men from your life should be seen as the same as dropping troublesome plates. It is much harder to fix a broken plate than just find a new one.
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Let me know if any of this needs clarification. This was mostly unedited, so I'll correct anything identified as incorrect.
TheGoldenLeprechaun 5y ago
This is why I don't offer any advice until they beg. And also why I don't talk about my bro's business with my girl. Not a knock on OP, good intentions, bad results.
coolredpill 5y ago
i also recently gave up trying to help a bro of mine
he met this girl through an online dating app and was quick to give her all of his time and money for her. he continued this behavior despite my advice and the girl's attitude towards him grew worse in return. the bro started to get triggered too easily and too often and despite him complaining about the girl's bitchy attitude all the time, i listened patiently and gave him some advice
he ended up fcking her about 2 months into their relationship, and then after getting pissed off by her a few days after his "achievement," he ended the relationship. 3 days later the girl apologized, told him she wants to get married, and invited him for dinner with her family
he says he is not sure whether he wants to get married but i know this guy will give in to her. honestly ive given up on this guy and lost all respect for him recently. guess he'll have to learn the hard way after getting divorce raped
oh and he is a us citizen while this girl is a korean immigrant whose visa expires next year. and he knows this.
Svenrolic 5y ago
Oof, the greencard thirst there. He may never learn, some just don't.
LambdaMale 5y ago
"I promise that I shall treat you like a Queen, m'lady", smirked Robespierre.
zyqkvx 5y ago
The lesson here could have been presented with an alternate title, "Bluepillers: Why no one will help you out of the pit. People aren't completely heartless, they can't try without it backfiring." That's the gist.
I think you are being down voted because they consider it your bad judgement for tring to save a bluepill. I don't think any fault of yours is the point. It's an honest post and it has a real lesson.
Svenrolic 5y ago
He seemed alright until I delved deeper, and by then I felt a bit of a compulsion to help him. I gave my younger brother a shove in this direction, and he is coming along fine. This situation probably just had too much hand holding. Dealing with as much manipulation as the LTR was throwing out I took as a challenge--one that it appears I eventually lost. This is where the whole "you can bring a horse to water" saying comes in. He didn't want to drink, so all said and done its his fault when he gets dehydrated.
Thank you for the alternative title. It is always interesting to see things from another perspective.
red_philosopher 5y ago
I've shared the RP with a number of men, and out of 6 or so, only 1 took it seriously. He used to be a 6' stick at about 130-140, saw him 6 months later and he had put on 20 lbs of muscle and stopped smoking and drinking. Needless to say, he stopped being a pussy.
It was good to see.
young_frogger 5y ago
Nothing wrong with giving it a go. You didn't over-invest and tried to do the right thing. Some people can't be helped unfortunately.
zyqkvx 5y ago
I've started trying to help blue pills a few times till I saw where it was going. I read before that they couldn't be helped. I stopped after I saw where it was going. They turn on you. It didn't make sense to me at first because how could someone who knows they are in a pit turn on the person who is giving them a way out. It doesn't make sense. But it does make sense because if their nature was to believe you they wouldn't be in the pit in first place, their nature would be to get out of the pit. It seems so senseless that blue pills go through life without someone stepping in and changing their direction.
The extended lesson is if I can't get out of my own pit it's because I'm either not willing to take responsibility for what my eyes can see.. and one way to do that is to try to help others that don't want help instead of furthering my own progress or solving my own problems. It's only when I make personal and physical gains that people are influenced by me. Noticed I said influenced and not listen. You can only influence people by how you appear and how you act. Any advice words even if your value is high, is seen as an act of self dick sucking. There is no intention that will make anyone listen, and there is nothing you can say that will make people listen, short of a short obvious statement to an extremely obvious situation.
The only exception is what i think of as a 'drive by' That's when I drop a red pill truth to an acquaintance I don't have to see on a daily basis (don't shit where you dwell) and who cant have much affect on my life. I think of it as leaving a crack in their world view. Example. I was talking to a bartender who was kinda half and half red pill / blue pill. He bluepilled to me that he had trouble with his girlfriend a few times and they were currently split. He said he was thinking of giving it one last try. I squared off my eyes with him and said nurturing, strong, and sincerere: "Don't dig through the garbage. There are more." He looked at me horrified and he knew it was true. I got respect props. Now if I was in that bar daily after that he would have been bitter and possibly made me wait extra long when I wanted service, seeing me as part of the problem. Almost a year later I started going in there from time to time, and he always served me extra quickly, instantly really. I think it's because he had a year to sort it out. I'm older now and something like that happens to me a few time a year. It's rewarding and validating, and gives me reassurance that the world isn't completely nuts.
note: I'm going to spare myself editing. I'm sure it's readable.
Svenrolic 5y ago
Fair enough. That was probably the difference, as his hand was held for the diet, work-out, etc. as we work in the same area. I should've just nudged him and let him learn on his own, but hindsight. /shrug
zyqkvx 5y ago
What you did wasn't failure, it was a datapoint. I'm sounding too high and mighty here. All I have is a scattershot (of data points), but I like my scattershot. My wiser self is a walk on the tightrope, and stupider me at least knows I can wait it out if I don't make it worse. I didn't totally give up on bluepills, that's why I do the 'drivebys'. They work particular well if I'm out of town. I can get some blowback, but then I just leave anyway. I figure if hey gave me blowback they processed what i said and might figure it out later.
TheRoad15 5y ago
This is my favorite comment here on a subject that I think about. How to help a blue pilled person like a best friend (from the blue pill days). I notice that as time goes on and I look to work towards business and stop playing videogames, who I want to hang out with changes.
But there's one dude that was lost to oneitis long ago. I was partially blamed and therefore ex-communicated. Recently reconnected after a few years of silence and hoping to spread my red pill seed.
One day it would be nice to have a comprehensive guide for helping boys grow into men. Someone might say "focus on your mission and DGAF" but helping people is a mission in itself as well. I recall hearing there's one highly respected dude on here that has skype calls with people and sort of coaches them. I want to be a Life Coach too haha.
zyqkvx 5y ago
Odds are you want to be a karate instructor before you know karate, and have no desire to learn karate. We all do. That's not redpill.
DeliciousPerformer 5y ago
I like to believe that when you help a BP, you plant a seed in him.
Even if he initially rejects it and turns on you, eventually after years of getting used, he will reflect on the lessons you thought him and hopefully realize that you were right.
AnakinRebornRage 5y ago
Plausible deniability. Once you reveal the truth to someone there is no true going back. You can mask it, hide it, pretend it doesn't exist but you start to see it EVERYWHERE. The quote "Don't think about pink elephants," comes to mind.
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CanookAround87 5y ago
Was he Korean? Or a foreigner living there abroad? I lived in South Korea for a year (North American) and a lot of the westerners that end up there are pretty BP forsure. It's actually where I discovered TRP.
mcqmacaroni 5y ago
Was in korea for 1 year too, now i see its same in china. so many unkempt degenerates giving westerners a bad image. hah who am i kidding, theyre representing the majority of western males accurately.
CanookAround87 5y ago
I'm over in China too. Not as bad in my tier 1 city. But like another guy said. Less competition for us.
Svenrolic 5y ago
I don't want to believe it, but that doesn't make it less true. I haven't been living in the US for 7 years now, so I was hoping social media was just showing one side of things that just happened to be BP bullshit.
Svenrolic 5y ago
He's from the USA. I've observed about the same. BP bullshit runs rampant with the foreigners here. Oh well /shrug. More for me
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GL_QUAD 5y ago
Should-a, would-a, could-a. And I'm the pharaoh of Egypt. Bitch, you ain't no queen; you got to earn what you get.
That is a good parasite. The lengths she was able to push this to, she might even have a shot at the local Parasite of the Year title.
We're at a point where reading through this makes me rather angry. Well, I bet most other Spergs would get angry, too - because this is waaaay too far off to even remotely resemble some fair-play, even after applying hefty amounts of manipulation and "it's no like thats".
Should have set her a hard deadline to move out. Her refusing to acknowledge this should have led to him changing locks & moving her stuff on the porch.
Svenrolic 5y ago
Yeah, he was a little scared to admit this shit to me, which should have been a sign for him that it wasn't a healthy relationship. As for the deadline, he claimed there was a one month due date (which turned out to be a lie) The second round he meant for her to move out immediately or he'd call the police--to which she called his bluff.
In Korea its easy to change locks actually. They're mostly electronic here with a pin code.
zyqkvx 5y ago
In the US that's dicy. Need to give 30 day notice or a 60 day notice if have been living there more than a year. Otherwise they might use renter laws against you (even if they don't pay rent). Best to tell her you have cancer (perhaps testicular or lung) and you have a $40,000 hospital bill. Tell her it will all work out. Then a week later tell her you are moving out and moving in with your mom. Then move in someplace else alone.
sanitypanacea 5y ago
Awesome HQ post. Love reading the perspective of another culture here!
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I can take something from this as I am helping a friend start to unplug with me to distract from the RAEGGG
Svenrolic 5y ago
Korea is interesting in that the women will openly admit things like "if you got fat I'd leave you," or just tell people they look like shit. The traditional shit test of "does this make me look fat" is a genuine question sometimes. Telling my girl "you need to work out, you're looking fat" is taken as a matter-of-fact, not an insult. American women tend to hamster words but take actions less seriously, Korean women tend to take words at face value and hamster actions. It is a weird thing to experience. Being told AF/BB flat out is a bit of a shock the first time you hear it from a woman.
ReturningSpider 5y ago
I’m in an LTR with a Chinese girl and the taking things at face value/matter-of-fact thing applies there too. It’s great! No bullshit and super easy to deal with
Svenrolic 5y ago
Good to know. Maybe someone will have some insight on Japan so we know if it's pretty much universal.
99ThotsBtMyBtchAint1 5y ago
My LTR is Japanese and she also takes my words that a western woman would consider harsh or insulting at face value too.
Don't get me wrong, if I tell her she needs to work out more she can get irritable, but it's because she knows it's true and has to put in more effort - same mood as I have when I have to wake up early on monday for work for example. She never takes it as an insult though.
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AuriumZen 5y ago
You're a good dude for trying to bring your friend out of relationship squalor, but damn did this story hit home. There have been a few times (maybe 3 or 4) where I've had friends that I've tried to bring to TRP and while they mentally took to it, they never took action.
The ones that did take action, would the slightest negative reactions from girls they were trying to hit up, or from their LTRs and they completely bitched out instead of holding true to their new found confidence/frame/values. In the end, things would get worse for them since they "tried" and didn't stay the course. I'd get blamed or they would then triple their complaining and accept shitty behavior from their LTRs.
So now, I keep a close knit circle of friends that have the same grinding mentality as myself now. It's not worth wasting your time on idiots.
Svenrolic 5y ago
There was a post a few years back on passing shit tests that covered the reactions your friends came across. Doubling down or agree and amplify are the best ways to deal with this sort of behavior, but it isn't behavior men are learning straight out of the gate. Many men come here to learn how to get more plates, but not many learn how to keep them spinning.
I'd agree this was a waste of my time in ways, but it still was a learning experience. It was an experiment to see if pushing someone hard in this direction would work, which turned out about as well as hardcore Christian parents with Atheist children.
People are impatient, which doesn't work out well with things like this. Trying new techniques immediately after learning about TRP is a venture doomed to fail.
TheRoad15 5y ago
This is something I've been thinking over a lot. I'm relatively new here and in the first few months you think "omg everyone needs to learn this" and you talk to your friends about it. You might get a 10% chance of someone actually listening. Most likely if they are single and/or have had some scarring situation in the past.
I know a guy that could really use the advice and wondering how I should ease him into it. There's the good comment below about dropping subtle truths to obvious situations. Would be interesting to have more data on the subject and to come up with the best ways to help blue pills (the ones we care about).
Svenrolic 5y ago
As others have suggested, caring about blue pilled men generally doesn't end well. The best results I've had were in sewing the seed, then leaving them be. My brother wised up after a year or so. My fault here was in being impatient and trying to force change on someone that didn't want it. He was content being taken advantage of with his rose-colored glasses.
Blue pilled men are similar to women in many ways in that their emotions and social obligations seem to determine their actions. Coming at these people with logic makes them hamster and relating to them emotionally just brings you down to their level. Sew your seeds and wait for them to grow on their own. Just know not every seed becomes a plant.
ReformSociety 5y ago
tl;dr: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
What more needs to be said? You should've picked up on the fact that he cannot change until he hits rock bottom himself and stopped wasting time with him.
Svenrolic 5y ago
I found out how bad it was way too late. I could've cut ties when I found out, which was an actual compulsion I had at the time. It was a challenge of sorts to lift the veil she'd constructed, but I played stupid games and won stupid prizes. At least he has a good foundation to work off of when shit hits the fan again.
Edit: On "when he hit rock bottom he would've changed"... I don't think he would've. Like women that hamster when their ONS doesn't work out, a blue-pilled man will keep taking things like this by hamstering that it was somehow his fault. He said himself that the situation got as bad as it did because he let her run all over him. He blamed himself for someone else shitting on him, and apologized to her for it. The cycle would likely continue without intervention.
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Alltenarepigs 5y ago
You were a bit bluepilled from the start to try and redpill a schmuck to begin with... and respectfully said to you, but what bring you to respect and actually like someone who's getting stepped on constantly?
Svenrolic 5y ago
Eh?
Not quite. Respect is a bit of a stretch here. I saw him like a younger sibling. Liking him was debatable. It is hard to like someone who constantly complains, but at least he kept going to the gym.
Free rides to work and I'm intrigued by playing stupid games like this (trying to pull Bro out of manipulation as some sort of test of my own frame). I wanted to see what would happen. These things are hit or miss.
MMA-Force 5y ago
Everyone must adopt redpill on their own without being led to it for it to be successful. This isnt anything new.