To some degree every women is getting over an ex until their hypergamous nature finds someone new, they seldom end a relationship and wallow in the abyss. They're usually going from being attracted to one man to being attracted to another man, a women's attraction is monogomous(see u/Whisper's latest).
More often than not they're branch swinging to a man she perceives to be more attractive than the last, but not exclusively. It depends what phase of her life she is in. If she has time and options she's probably hopping from one cock to the next best thing available. If wall impact is looming she's not looking for the most alfalfa man but rather the most provider worthy.
Her ex or her perception of him is a great indicator of where you stand. If you understand how hypergamy works, he was probably the highest value man in her life up until that point (talking about pre-wall women here, leave those post wall slags with their cats). She uses him as her frame of reference when interacting with you. She'll rank you somewhere amongst her previous lovers, an internal hierarchy of sorts.
Where you fall on this ladder will greatly influence your relationship with a woman. Find yourself at the top and she'll be a sweet little muffin, she's branch swung to an alpha. Find yourself further down and she's looking for a provider, you're obtaining second hand goods and are her beta bux.
For this reason, the initial interactions with a woman are the most important. It's when she is trying to figure out where you fit in. She'll be shit testing and evaluating you. If your're found to be lacking she'll take the liberty of moving on fairly quickly herself, if you're rapidly ascending her hierarchy she'll be treating you more and more like a king. She'll be dissecting you until she knows. To even be considering you, you've at least got to be showing signs that you could compete.
It's important to note that your place in this hierarchy is always subject to change, how you behave will determine where she'll rank you. If you start being a supplicating beta you'll drop down the hierarchy. If you start showing her a powerful alpha you'll rise up the hierarchy.
Time is a factor too, in a monogamous relationship, other men appear to be more alpha. The more she knows about you, the more loyal you are, the harder it is to compete with others. This is because you are competing with fantasies about other men that she whips up in her head. When you exist in reality, it's hard to compete with fantasy. If you're polygamous on your side there's a far better chance of your rule of the roost surviving. The competition anxiety drives her to continue to work for your affections. A fresh pre-wall woman will rather share an Alpha than settle for a beta.
Prying and digging into her past to find out where you stand on her internal hierarchy is a fools errand, you'll only be presenting yourself as insecure, which ironically will do damage to the very thing you're trying to figure out. It is however essential that you know where you stand, you want to be getting the best of your partner, not her sloppy ravaged seconds. You simply need to pay attention to the cues, the manner in which she talks about ex's, how often she mentions them and most importantly how she treats you.
The manner in which she talks about her ex's will reveal information in a typical femme paradox way. If you've been paying attention to anything around here you'll be aware that there's a cognitive dissonance between what a woman says and what's truth. If she speaks fondly of them, commending their nice guy efforts, it's safe to say he was a soyboy, she probably left him because he couldn't satisfy her. If she calls him an abusive asshole, she was probably Alpha Widowed by Chad and you've got damaged goods.
The degree to which she mentions her ex tells you a lot too. Women tend not to have much of a logical filter, but rather an emotional blurt that best fits her current state of mind. When she mentions her ex it's because he entered her mind, how often this happens is quite informative. If she hardly mentions him at all it's it's because he hardly made an impression on her and you're shooting her lights out. If she's mentioning him here and there it's completely normal, it's a shit test. There's usually a transition period where she'll mention him more in the beginning and it'll slowly dissipate. As she get's to know you more and sees what a stallion you are she should forget about him.
If she's incessantly dropping his name in conversations and it's not really slowing down, she's still got his name branded on her ass. Get the fuck out of there. She was most likely Alpha Widowed and now you have to manage a thousand cock stare. It also means he probably sits higher on her internal hierarchy than you which never bodes well for your relationship. There are ways to turn it around, but I'm not a fan of them, your efforts are better spent elsewhere instead of trying to compete for the affections of a single, wretched pussy.
Lastly is how she treats you. If she's sexual, submissive, obedient, sweet and working for your affections, it's safe to say she holds you in very high regard. Wallow in your glory as her finest catch. If she's controlling, demanding, avoids sex, moody, not acting like a happy child, it's pretty safe to say you're her beta. She's interested in the resources you offer, but just not very interested in you. Get comfortable playing yes mam or get the fuck out of there.
Ultimately, your place in the hierarchy is not something you should worry about, but rather be aware of. You have no control over the value of her previous partners, you merely want to be aware that your'e coming in at the top to ensure you get the best of her. You don't need to be the most alfalfa man on planet earth, just the most alfalfa she's ever had and she'll be treating you like the king you are.
TL/DR: There is an external dominance hierarchy which we talk about quite often. However to a woman, her ex's are her internal hierarchy, tailored to her individual experience. Being at the top of her hierarchy is important, it dictates the dynamic of your relationship. The simple solution would be get a virgin, but unless you're 15 they're probably not too abundant, most will probably have to evaluate where they stand in her hierarchy and take action accordingly.
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mr_chgr 5y ago
Awesome Post Op. Makes More Easy to understand the power dynamics in relationships.
keeponlifting 5y ago
I couldn't agree more with this post.
Just recently, I nexted a plate because I had sunk in her internal hierarchy. To be honest, she's an Alpha Widow, I just hadn't noticed it at first. I'll write down all the mistakes I've made and how to avoid them for guys that may have found themselves in similar situations.
She kept nagging me whether I had any other girls on the side, at first I ignored it or simply agreed and amplified, but as time went by I found myself catching oneitis and admitting some things to her (Never do this, AWALT, she's like every other girl out there, have abundance mentality so she'll be chasing you.)
At first I decided to only text for logistics and dates, but she kept sending me messages and I found myself reluctant to ignore them and then talking to her more and more (Don't make the mistake I did, logistics only and a bit of dread game goes a long way. Remember you're the prize, not her.)
I confronted her about her ex.
As OP said, confronting her or asking her about her ex you will only damage and lower your position in her internal hierarchy. Because if you're a girl's top priority, you'll know. If you set up a date with her, it'll be the highlight of her week. If she flakes on you, you're not her top priority or she's found someone better and can't decide whom to pick yet. Validated excuses for not making it to your date can occur, but I'd say 9/10 times, she just doesn't want to go out with you. Because let's face it, girls don't have that interesting lives, all they do is text all day. (Someone wrote a whole post on this, can't remember who.)
I see this fail as a learning experience, I failed to follow RP principles and got what I deserved. Next time I'll trust my gut and not her. Hopefully this reply will help out some of you guys in a similar situation.
roboisdabest 5y ago
Same situation. We live and we learn.
missingkey2 5y ago
Made the same mistakes the past year. Now spinning two plates and its bliss. Pain is the best teacher I guess.
reversec 5y ago
gotta live to learn
gotta learn to earn
gotta earn to yearn
Thefruitloopdingus 5y ago
Would like to read the post on texting all day, any idea of the general topic of the post so I can dig it up?
keeponlifting 5y ago
I think it was "Three ways to consciously manipulate women before they manipulate you".
If you filter the posts by top rated from all time, you'll find similar posts that are extremely helpful.
Also, heathcliff posted some similar stuff so give it a read. I don't know how to link it directly, still new to Reddit.
randomTATRP 5y ago
Even if you did know, it's against the rules afaik. :)
fdsafdasfdsafds 5y ago
What things did you admit? This has been a constant thing over the first 12 months of my current relationship. I've just continued to not really say anything.. AND I didn't fully commit until 6-7 months in.. AND I've been talking to girls on Tinder (now I'm the time-waster). Abundance mentality is so important. I've been in Thailand and there is an abundance of cute Asian chicks. To others - there is no shame to exploring environments which will instantly up your abundance while you work on the long-term psychological aspects.
Just want to emphasise importance of this! This is the first relationship where I've hardly ever texted her first and will routinely ignore her messages or give her hardly anything back. It is a valuable lesson to see just how effective this is. Drives her nuts (in a good way). Every other guy is spilling the beans and spending his time. I just spend 100% of my attention on her when I'm with her. Then she's out of sight, out of mind.
One of the easiest ways to behave like this passively is to focus on you and your mission as #1 priority. I'm genuinely too busy enjoying the work/progress on my different projects that I don't really care that much if she drops off. I'll replace her in time and, until then, I'll just keep enjoying my life.
keeponlifting 5y ago
I really like the "when she's out of sight, she's out of mind" mentality.
What projects do you spend your time on? I've been looking for a new hobby or activities to pick up. Been thinking of bouldering.
fdsafdasfdsafds 5y ago
When I first started dating properly a few years ago I tried anything I could - bouldering, rock climbing, martial arts, massage classes, salsa dancing, badminton, go karting, airsoft. You just have to find something which you genuinely enjoy. If you can get paid, too, great!
I found badminton really enjoyable when going against an evenly matched opponent. Can get pretty intense. Salsa dancing is great for meeting women and getting comfortable with keno if not already. Rock climbing is amazing, but I only had indoor ones in UK for convenience. I met a guy at the climbing gym who said he'd travelled around Greenland and Iceland with his wife climbing ice walls haha. Get adventurous. Go try hobbies you never thought you would.
As for my projects, I taught myself programming 10 years ago and found a great hobby and career. last year I quit my job, sold everything and moved out of my country to reduce living costs (Asia). This allowed me to do freelancing for 10-15 hrs/wk and spend the rest of my time building my first software business. I'm 12 months in and it's difficult. But this a brilliant long-term goal which will force me to grow and, for the foreseeable, has become my mission.
I am now a big believer in low living costs and high hourly rate on part-time hours. Not great for saving, but good for buying yourself a great deal of free time every day. Now the aim is to trade those freelancing hours for semi-passive income through software-as-a-service.
vfb14 5y ago
Great example of the fluidity of hypergamy.
peacemakerzzz 5y ago
Great post. I think women shit test men to determine how they will view you. It's a way to predetermine the nature of your masculinity. If you're the supplicating beta, she gets to control the frame. If you hold your own frame, she adjusts to your level. Hence, the one who's holding a larger frame has the most power.
Sunguroglu 5y ago
You really dont know how much i needed this post.
Thank you. Really.
brotein_synthesis 5y ago
Well, this is all pretty much sidebar101
Original_Dankster 5y ago
This is why fucking married women or women with boyfriends is actually easier than fucking single women in a lot of cases.
Single attractive women have tinder accounts and a lineup of dudes around the block giving them validation. You are competing with thousands of men, and you need to be in the topmost tier of this large group.
Attractive women with a BF / Husband still get attention from other dudes, but not to the same degree. Also, their hubby / bf farts at the dinner table, digs boogers out of his nose watching TV, kisses her ass with beta behaviour and she is probably bored of fucking him. So to get her attention and give her tingles, you only need to outcompete one guy who's no longer on his best behaviour.
Sad state of affairs, but it is what it is.
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Obediah_Stane 5y ago
Yup just another reason why it behooves men to not get married. It actually increases the likelihood of her cheating instead of decreasing it as most uninitiated men think.
Ceroe 5y ago
Trying with a single woman, you're competing against all men, trying with a woman in a relationship, you're competing against 1.
ac3jc 5y ago
Exactly what I needed to read at this moment. I’m talking to this girl right now that I really like, and oneitis can be seen around the corner. She saw a text I got from this other girl and has been asking about her every now and then. Now I know I should keep the other girl on my radar.
redpill77 5y ago
I wish I made my trp username alfalfa_sprout
ThrowAway2k187 5y ago
The main reason it is so easy to pick up a woman with a boyfriend. Her hypergamy and curiosity about a new man and his perceived superiority to the one she already has will incentivize her to reach out and grab that branch. See if it's worth the swing or not.
I always found girls with boyfriends to be easier to pick up than single chicks. Single women have an imagined Chad in their mind, and can often dismiss men for not meeting an arbitrary requirement of this fantasy guy (gotta be 6 feet tall). For a woman with a boyfriend (or maybe husband) the man simply has to appear to be superior to the one she already has.
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reubenc98 5y ago
My ex got her sister to add me on snapchat this saturday, over a year after we split. The sister asking how I was because “she’s nice” and “**** wants to know if you had me blocked”. I said well i do now and blocked her.
What is happening there like.
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Kpwn88 5y ago
It never stops. My "sweet little muffin" did a complete 180 in about a two year span as she found out more and more of my inner workings did the deep conversion for me.
Went from a liberal feminist party chick, to a wholesome, churchgoing wife and mother. Four years later, she's homeschooling, making sure dinner is ready when I'm home, blowjobs anytime I want, ect.. Though understand this: dissecting never stops
I'm still shit tested, and how she treats me is dependent on how I handle her. Lots of spankings for her, and lots of being called an asshole for me. The wall looms near for her, and even once she hits it I'm sure it will still continue. She has proven herself as a loving wife and mother, so for that she earned the wife goggles. Though she knows I could take them off if she pushed me hard enough. Dread is the name of the game folks.
jazerac 5y ago
Would love to hear more about your LTR strategy.
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Zech4riah 5y ago
High quality post and advanced interpretations of female psychology as expected from you. Thanks.
vullnet123 5y ago
I feel like I, and most other dudes with ex's here, started up pretty high then ended bottom of the barrel
KeffirLime 5y ago
There's a reason why phrases like,"She's not yours, it's just your turn" or more appropriately "You're not her's, it's just her turn" exist.
We are not biologically driven for a lengthy co-dependence, which is a lagging function of marriage that still exists in modern society. There's a reason that relationships are getting shorter and shorter.
It worked within the confines of marriage because of social penalty, which no longer exists today.
A modern relationship is left up to attraction alone to drive it forward, however, we are not biologically designed, male or female to be blissfully devoted to one individual no matter what, over an extended period of time.
The longer we are with a single individual the harder it is to maintain attraction. As a man the only way is to directly express your market value consistently. You do this by inducing competition anxiety, she needs to know throughout the relationship that you are able to obtain other women.
Giving her comfort and loyalty removes you from the SMP, infact it shows her you can't be all that alpha after all, if you're willing to forego all pussies except her.
itsjustsimon- 5y ago
Ek-fucking-xactly.
That's why people who are saying 'just be alpha and she'll be loyal' are delusional. When you're in LTR, especially for a longer period of time, you're in a starting position that is way way back comparing to someone new with the same SMV.
cafeitalia 5y ago
Tell her that you have a rule which is never to talk about exes. Fuck her the way you enjoy fucking a woman and for your own pleasure, then she will either stay or leave. If she leaves it was her turn to enjoy you and another women's turn will start, if she stays she will stay on your own terms. This is not rocket science and doesn't need tens of paragraphs to try to explain.
moltenw 5y ago
This gives her power. She know knows that she can shit-test you with this and see your reaction. If you don't pass it, for example, tolerating that behavior, then she will know you are a bitch.
Also, her talking about her ex without you telling her that you don't want that is a good thing. It shows you her true nature. If you would have told her that you have such a rule, she may want to talk about it, but withold it since she knows you will have a bad reaction to it, thus you won't know wether or not she is thinking about her exes or not.
cafeitalia 5y ago
Not at all. If she talks about her exes then dump her ass and show that you always had the power. If you don't dump her when she shit tests you by talking about her exes you never had the power to begin with. Also if you think she thinks about her exes you are with the wrong woman to begin with. This is for an ltr, if you are just sleeping with her then who cares if she thinks about an ex or talks about them.
moltenw 5y ago
What I meant was - now that she knows that you will dump her if she doesn't abide by your rule, she has a reason to hide it. Aka - you won't know if she actually doesn't talk about her exes because that's the way she is, or if she does it because you set an ultimatium which she understands she needs to follow, thus you never know which one she really is.
cafeitalia 5y ago
Who cares if you know or not. You are the man. You demand you request you order and she has to follow obey and do. If you care so much about these tiny minuscule things like 'oh I will never know if she actually does or not blah blah blah' makes you no different than a woman.
fdsafdasfdsafds 5y ago
How true is this? I've found it difficult to commit in relationships even with a virgin where she has treated me like a king. How many years until this shining armour truly begins to fade and she inevitably starts seriously considering other mates? I know you can hold this off by being focused on your mission and constantly improving yourself, but can that sustain her attraction for you over a marriage as you raise kids, or even over a 5 or so year period?
KeffirLime 5y ago
You shouldn't be focusing on the end goal, but rather let things progress organically, enjoying the process because it serves you.
If it does however progress to a serious relationship then it is certainly harder to maintain attraction. Being loyal and monogamous is beta in nature, and it will be increasingly difficult for her to be attracted to you.
You'll have to be dreading frequently to remind her of your market value or actively engaging with other women.
Otherwise it will more than likely be built on transactional grounds instead of fiery desire. She's stays because she's the mother of your kids and you provide somewhat for them and her. Her kids will always come before you.
This of course opens you up to vulnerability, she could leave with your kids, she could run off with some other guy who gets the feelz going again, as I said in the post, it's hard to compete with fantasy when you exist in reality.
It's a risk any way you look at at it, one you have to decide whether you're willing to take our not.