Prompted by the recent piece by /u/IllimitableMan on how to be happy, the below is an attempt of mine to address the depression phase. The realisation that while you're banging attractive women and have two or three plates spinning... it's not bringing you the inner happiness you wanted. In appreciating where this comes from, it should help get you to acceptance faster than I did.
I recently wrote in a thread about how we as men can no longer afford the luxury of falling in love, of being able to give in to those strong feelings which cause oneitis. From my rooftop, this is my view of the decline.
In order to understand this post you will need to have internalised the differences between
and then from this realised how oneitis is actually useful to nature in the past. There is no one, and it's pretty straightforward to maintain an abundance mentality. But you were designed to fall in love with a woman because if you didn't, then you'd leave her while she was pregnant to go spread your genes elsewhere. The successful strategy for any man who was not a tribal king or warlord (and thus had resources/people under his command to look after many women as he saw fit) would be to stick with the best quality woman who fell pregnant and protect her and his children. Otherwise the effort of passing on your genes would go to waste when the kids get murdered by a new man or barbarians come in and rape and kill her. Civilisation and societal etiquette is the fairly obvious solution to these old problems from stone age tribes. The modern oneitis comes from a persistent spreading of the soulmate myth. The deep loving feelings are the same, but the search was instead altered causing great pain for the modern misinformed man.
Anyway, as society has evolved, women were typically contained within a submissive role. The woman who stepped out of this role would be punished with physical violence. The "rule of thumb" is an excellent example of how this was previously legally enforced within society. So absurd levels of shit testing and frame stealing were legally enforced against, even for the most beta of betas. (The violence served as a deterrent for the women. If you pissed off your husband too much, he would likely beat you.) Please note that this is not an endorsement of violence against women. The sub has been very clear in its position on this. (Do not try to twist my explanation of history into some kind of sick endorsement.)
As a result of this high level of dominance being backed up legally and physically, we saw society develop on the cultural side to develop romanticism. I'm sure you're all familiar with the phrase men are the romantics pretending to pragmatic and women are the pragmatists pretending to be romantic. As we had set up the dominance/submission dynamic between men and women so strongly, men could afford an additional luxury out of the relationship. They could sacrifice a little dominance to enjoy being romantic with women. Any good LTR game will tell you how you need to mix alpha behaviour with a sprinkling of benevolent behaviour in order to achieve a balanced relationship that would not make the woman too insecure. I would count the romanticism of the time as such. So it actually benefitted the ladies and made them a bit happier too.
What we didn't note was that the change in the dynamic when we reformed laws on this, meant that romanticism to some degrees was a luxury that some men could no longer afford. This was when "the abuse" would begin as Girlwriteswhat would put it. I recall she's spoken about relationships in which women will follow their man from room to room constantly berating them, insulting them and putting them down. Telling them they're a worthless piece of shit, and he takes it because he can no longer react violently within legal means (though that didn't stop them sometimes, and why didn't it stop them? Because bullying and berating someone who can't escape is a form of psychological abuse. It's why we hate bullying in society.) That deterrent is no longer in place to prevent shit testing escalating to this kind of level. It presents a danger to men that was not faced by our ancestors. This new danger was the psychological violence women can enact on men with a level of impunity. The scales were reversed. It's no wonder men are not happy anymore.
If we put the marriage and divorce issues to one side for a moment (we already know these are bad deals for men, that's generally accepted here), let's take a quick look at the two major issues for Red Pill men who want to run LTR game. Screening is absolutely essential. The reality is that many women have either damaged themselves psychologically beyond repair and simply make bad long term partners, and others just had the wrong personality to begin with. In addition to this, you've then got the large pool of women who are too boring and/or don't share any common interests with you. Each of these four screening statements rules out a huge majority of modern women from being relationship material. There are probably more, which leaves an absolutely tiny percentage you could develop an LTR with.
We then add to this that the way the legal system now works, combined with the natural hypergamous behaviour of women, the dominant behaviour you display to maintain the balance in a modern relationship will be difficult. Even if you've screened for the right woman, you can never let your guard down. Never. Female love is conditional upon their emotional state. Upon their feelings currently being generated by your value. When that drops, she will be looking to head out the door at the first opportunity and take as much of your resources as she can with her. The reward for dealing with this over the long term will be a companion. You will need to balance your dominant and benevolent behaviours perfectly.
What you can't have is a woman you can fall in love with and develop the associated feelings of oneitis. Once you develop that oneitis, that is the beginning of the end. The emotions take over the rational and the slow decline into trying to please her begins. We've all seen how that story goes. It's all over the Red Pill. The majority of modern marriages tell the same similar tale ending in divorce (and frequently sexual infidelity.) That's before we even think about the disgusting rise in cuckoldry. It's both funny and sad to think about how a man could sell himself out like that. As a slave to a woman. Pathetic. That's an example of the horrifyingly negative power that oneitis can have on the modern man. A man who takes that level of psychological abuse because he loves her. There is no great equality in that. A man must protect himself.
With that in mind, it comes to your options... the only reasonable options all modern men now have:
- Live with spinning plates and develop no real emotional connection to them. Connect with your male peers and do other things with your life.
- Attempt to find one of the tiny percentage of rare women who are LTR material and achieve companionship along with a superficial emotional connection.
- Disconnect from the game altogether and become a MGTOW. Focus on your passions to try and fulfil yourself emotionally.
The option you do not have which previous generations did:
- Find a good woman to fall in love with, develop a deep emotional connection to her and start a family.
Emotionally, (that force which really drives humanity) we are the poorest generation of men in the entire history of civilisation. The irony is, this generation in the job market now is the first generation in a century in the west to be poorer than their parents. The last time that happened was because of a world war.
Our economic poorness makes an excellent metaphor for the emotional landscape men now see. We now look back at history and see how our grandparents could afford that really nice house and that Ferrari. They worked hard and they earned these things. We now realise that the economy is so bad... that we can work twice as hard and we'll still never earn the Ferrari, and we'll be lucky to get a decent appartment. That is how emotionally poor the modern man is - and there's nothing wrong with being angry or depressed by this realisation. It. is. horrible. With the relationship dynamic so screwed up that a deep emotional connection can no longer be maintained, the women are emotionally poorer too. They're ending up destroying their own relationships and marriages, then ending up alone with cats. This is the decline gentlemen. It's no wonder we're all so miserable with the modern dating market.
let_terror_reign 8y ago
Seems like arranged marriages in old times covered a lot of this. Girl from good family?
Girl look okay?
Girl treat everyone with respect?
Girl acknowledge her submissiveness to the man?
Girl virgin till marriage night?
Basically, a decent looker whom you didn't oneitis with whom you'd eventually fall in love with over the course of time. Since you didn't have love at first sight or some shit and your folks picked her out, she'd be attractive but not someone whose looks you pedestalise and hence compromise your standards for.
Since she can't use her wiles on you per se, it's harder to blackmail or guilt someone who doesnt worship the ground you walk on.
With time, the well worn characteristics make you actually love the person more unconditionally. The fire isn't as bright but its much less likely to die out.
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[deleted] 8y ago
As a person who comes from a culture where arranged marriage was the norm even two generations ago I'd say that your first question just about covers it.
Individuals were vetted based on their family and you mostly were married off as a virgin in your teens or early 20s at the latest. Those factors alone eliminated 90% of the problems we see with modern marriage.
I disagree with the lack of pedalization though. If anything it was on a much higher level and essentially institutionalized. It was enforced via well-defined traditional gender roles. The man was required to be a beta provider. The woman was required to be a mother. There were no alternatives.
Another aspect is that these cultures are far less hedonistic. Sex wasn't held with as high regard as it is in modern times. Today we make sex out to be this magical experience that completes you as a person. In times past that was raising a family. Funny when you think about it. Tells you a lot about our values as a society.
systemshock869 8y ago
Being a provider and having the responsibility of taking good emotional care of your arranged wife doesn't necessarily place you in the "beta" position. Though I'm sure it was still more common than not.
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let_terror_reign 8y ago
I could be using my own parents as an example for the lack of pedestalization.
Beta was the minimum requirement, as you can still feed a family on beta bucks. Being an alpha wasn't necessary, because who cares about poon when you don't know whether your family will survive the next day.
About hedonism, definitely true. Sex was primarily for procreation, and I doubt whether recreational sex was a real concern.
Are we richer for embracing recreational casual sex? I doubt it.
The problem with embracing the decline is that it isn't long term unless we get something going. It's a short term life strategy that doesn't hand anything forward to the next generation. It's a locally greedy, globally suboptimal strategy.
Fafner2 8y ago
Definitely not. For every guy who "embraces recreational casual sex," there's a slut increasing her n-count, with all the inflated ego, "progrussive wymenism," etc. that goes with that.
Most people don't think this deeply, on a societal level, about casual sex. They just care about the immediate pleasure that stems from it, without seeing the abhorrent consequences of it.
nzgs 8y ago
Your problem is that you think there should be a "global strategy". This is mental masturbation. The best strategy is no strategy, just individuals pursuing their own self-interest, and a society that evolves based on the present interests of its individuals.
This conservative circle-jerk really should stay on sluthate where it belongs.
let_terror_reign 8y ago
Many ideas would have fucked up before the idea of cities and trade evolved too. You're unlikely to hear about the ones that failed.
Society evolved because people realised that long term strategies would benefit them all more than any individualistic ones. That's why religion was powerful and backed by those in power.
Possibly true, and that's how past societies did evolve. I doubt they were fighting against something like feminism then, so this isn't a balanced equilibrium that finds a new stable position. This is highly unbalanced, and we've found a strategy that fits (embracing the decline). Is it the best we can do? I expect not.
Contributes nothing
nzgs 8y ago
Trade is a product of free individuals pursuing their self-interest. Cities are a product of trade condensing populations. Humans when left to their own devices free from authoritarianism whether political or religious, will create civilisations. Social engineering only serves to hinder civilisation and in many cases it will lead to chaos and war.
As I already stated, posts like yours full of passive-aggressive "sluthate" entitlement and appeals to social-engineering are toxic to TRP. Trying to change the behaviour of others to better suit your agenda, under the guise of "strategy", is exactly what these feminists and progressives do.
let_terror_reign 8y ago
LOL
What?
LOL, what exactly is my agenda? You've met me, I assume?
Don't waste my time.
nzgs 8y ago
Why are you even here? There are plenty of subs for bluepill socialists trying to change society to fit their needs.
[deleted] 8y ago
Nail on the head. Personally, I'd just suggest using your 20s and most of your 30s enjoying the short-term and then try to settle when you're much older.
BurnYourFlag 8y ago
I disagree the advantage to society is the spread of superior genetics via hypergamy. I do not care for the rest of humanity at all, but i do care to increase the chance of my offspring surviving by maximizing the amount of children i have.
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sourpuss_ashkenazi 8y ago
Has anyone dealt with wanting to have children in this sub? I'm always reading 'have a bunch of fuckbuddy women on the side and don't think about them too much and drop them whenever". Right, great but how do you leave a genetic legacy?
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Nobody has dealt with it directly because it's extremely dangerous and difficult because you'll need to master LTR game and pick the ideal woman. Then once you have a child with her, you're playing the game on Nightmare mode because you've just given her a big red button that she can press at any time for total dominance and cash prizes.
Since the pill is pragmatic... it's pretty much at the bottom of the list of suggestions. However you can find an excellent LTR series by Occamsusername in 8 parts from a few years back. This will give you all the detail to set up a solid base LTR. In addition to this, I believe there is a redpillparenting sub but I've never been there so it may purely focus on raising the child rather than what you need to set up in order to have a child.
The alternative to leaving a genetic legacy would be to knock some chick up through a ONS without giving her your real name. But obviously that means your kid will be raised by a single mother... so it's arguable whether that's even worth leaving behind.
RedPillJax 8y ago
Much like how men in prior times of economic downturn recognized that times, they were a'changing - if you recognize this fact with the emotional landscape of our period - you will also have a chance to capitalize on it.
Society makes the circumstances, but those who adapt; thrive.
james-watson 8y ago
We live in an artificially restrained environment designed to massively benefit extreme outliers in talent, wealth or luck.
As you rightly stated, the male advantages of violence and logic are completely outlawed by the courts and law enforcement. Conversely, female psychological manipulation and abuse is not even considered harmful, it is encouraged in popular culture (sitcoms, romcoms, etc.)
So what we get is a system where an increasingly smaller number of men will monopolize all the money and fertile women of the world, while the great majority of men will be left with nothing.
In the past, this led to social collapse. Now? Automation and technology mean that the elite men won't even need the others. They'll probably give us a meager welfare to survive, and ruthlessly punish us for breaking any one of their draconian and ever changing "laws".
You thought feudalism was bad? Wait till you experience this new techno-oligarchy. It will be a blast.
I always find it entertaining that the TRP echo chamber constantly strives to learn and understand, yet is utterly incapable of seeing actual trends in the economy and society. Guess what gents, the MRAs are onto something, because they see the writing on the wall.
No matter how fucking hard you lift, the chicks will start flocking to ever more alpha men because society encourages it, and as you know, a man can fuck a very large number of women, especially when he doesn't need to work and has has a private security firm to kill any male trespassers trying to get at his harem.
You can see this clear as day in society now. Let's look at an HB7.0's life from 16 to the wall:
Highschool: Gets fucked by high school athletes (Chad Jr) who're also fucking half the school, heart broken, pussy ripped apart
College: Gets fucked by a slew of college athletes (Chad), none of them commit, starts believing in the religion of feminism to assuage her painful pussy and charred feels
Got all that? So tell me exactly, the TRP solution is to just become one of these outlier men right, and fuck a train of used up pro bono whores. And live within a society whose laws are so skewed to prevent you from becoming an elite, that it's equivalent to male feminism in retard factor.
Keep living in your delusions and fighting for a scrap of worn out pussy while sticking your head in the sand. You won't become the elite, just like you won't win the lottery. Of course, the elite will constantly tell you that its not only possible, but inevitable, everyone who works hard will win the lottery. And you'll believe it.
Fools.
Wake the fuck up. The oligarchy are living in a way you'll never understand. They don't have to work. They don't follow the laws. They just indulge in whatever hedonic fantasies they have at the time, while you work like a fucking slave believing in your delusions. Don't take my word for it, go watch Entourage, or Cribs, or whatever the fuck show is on now to provide key insight into the lives of these fuckers.
You will never be the elite, but as long as you believe you will, they have you by the balls.
yummyluckycharms 8y ago
I think you make a lot of good points - although I would add two quick disagreeing points
You are quite correct in stating that the majority of red pillers will not be the elite, as statistically speaking, its impossible. That said, training / earning money / learning new skills will put us farther ahead than most people and certainly farther ahead than where we would be if we didnt do those things. So while it might be a little of a Horatio Algers fantasy that we all have, it also has the practical benefit of increasing our SMV in the grand scheme of things.
The MRA / Red Pill / MGTOW trichotomy is false. I should really make a post about this as I keep seeing people referring to this grouping as though these groups are mutually exclusive when they really aren't. The fact is - the same big issues that affect one of the three - affects all of the three.
On a final point - I wonder if you are over estimating the importance that technology will have, but I think that is a separate point for debate and I invite you to pm if you want.
Otherwise - good post.
james-watson 8y ago
Yeah no shit, look at GLOs post on the front page right now making fun of an elderly dude trying to spread the word on male legal issues, in order to sell T-shirts.
If GLO is our rep, we are FUBAR. The dude is a dancing clown panhandling for bux, while Rome burns. I got involved in the manosphere before GLO was a sperm in his daddy's ballsack, and only came to TRP because Rollo would post here.
Now, having seen that TRP has literally become a bunch of retarded frat boys who can't string two coherent sentences together, I'm ready to move on.
I don't have fuck all to learn from teenage boys who have zero understand of the world beyond GAAAAAAINS BRUUUUUUUUUU.
Fuck, I make fun of guys like GLO on daily basis at the gym. So fucking obsessed with something as trivial as EXERCISE and DIET. Holy shit man, call fucking Edward Witten, we've made a breakthrough in our understanding of the universe!
Children, all of them.
FaustoRMD 8y ago
It's time for TRP to start saying things by its name: the fucking Jews are destroying the West.
RocketManV 8y ago
If physical violence was the psychological weapon of men in the past, is it currently our attention?
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Only if you're a high SMV man. Otherwise she simply doesn't care. It always amuses me how ignoring a chick can drive her absolutely mental.
Borsao66 8y ago
Since this is ALWAYS appropriate:
Tyler Durden: Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
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Enjoyitbeforeitsover 8y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m1s2NFOGyg
[deleted] 8y ago
fuck that movie and this overall logic everyone has, because it's just as weak-minded as the people who get tricked by that shit.
The first step to living in reality and outisde of the beta trap is to accept and own your actions and their consequences. betas will always think that its something "out of their control", like if their wife cheats on them or doesnt respect them that it was just something out of their control and not a direct result of how they acted throughout the relationship.
There wasn't some mind-control by advertising. A person makes the choice to not buy shit. There have been times before where I wanted the brand new tablet/phone/trip to vegas/etc, but you have to keep in mind the longer term goals
that's what a lot of people are not doing, having a long term plan for the next 5 years, let's say. its funny how many people wont even set aside a few days to make a detailed and comprehensive plan for the next 5 years when it's been one of the best things i've ever done.
TonyLaRocca 8y ago
No, the first step is in realizing the problem- which is what this quote does. A lot of guys don't even realize WHY they're miserable. One step at a time.
[deleted] 8y ago
A lot of guys don't even know they're miserable. My overweight divorced dad filling the hole in his heart with nice crap and the lack of lived experience with sterilized vacations is my example of what not to be.
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jtcribbs 8y ago
Pitt's a Missouri boy, so he probably just channeled the old friends he grew up with and what became of them...
Wilhelm_Stark 8y ago
It worked for him, but Brad Pitt is a smart guy. He probably can understand where its coming from pretty well. Hes a pretty big human rights activist.
rurpe 8y ago
people at the top can be miserable too. The point of the movie, and the speech, was to reframe what is means to be "successful".
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Fafner2 8y ago
Most actors and actresses are lucky. Lucky to be born looking good, lucky to have connections.
spunk_wizard 8y ago
True, but if you don't believe that Brad Pitt got to where he is without hard work and an insane amount of failure and persistence, you're not giving him anywhere near enough credit
Fafner2 8y ago
I don't deny the hard work/perseverance, but to make an analogy, it's like trying to cook a perfect filet mignon without having the right cut of meat. Most people won't even qualify in the first place to be able to work their ass off in such a field.
R4ndom_Hero 8y ago
You got this part completely wrong.
Both male and female have the same goal - to pass on their genes. However, the strategies they use are completely different. Males, at least in the mammals kingdom, try to spread their genes as much as possible by having sex with multiple females. This creates much better mix of genes and the likelihood of more healthy infants surviving and passing the genes further. This is viable strategy for males because, at least in theory, we are capable of impregnating hundreds of woman in a very short time.
Females on the other hand do not have that comfort. Their fertility window is very small and they have to use every chance they get to give birth and raise a healthy descendant. Now chances of doing that on your own are very small, hence females are forced to look for male provider in order to increase the probability of passing on their genes.
Lions are pretty good example here. Alpha male can impregnate multiple females in the pack. This is beneficial for him because he gets to spread his genes more easily, but also for females because their genes will mix with the alpha genes, which is highly desirable in nature. Most females will not risk getting pregnant with beta lions, because the cubs will most likely get killed by an alpha who will treat them as competition. Remember that for female her infant is much more important than for alpha male, because she has probably one shot at this. For alpha male it doesn't matter too much because even if one cub dies, he's got 10 other females pregnant.
Now, life of beta lion is shit. He can either help to provide for the pack, but with no possibility of passing on his genes (sounds familiar?). He can start his own pack as an alpha, or he can challenge current alpha male and if he wins he gets to kill all his cubs (because raising children that are not your own does not benefit you in any way, and in fact may become a problem in the future).
Finally, going back to oneities. If you're a beta male struggling to develop alpha qualities, your only chance of passing your genes is to get a woman completely dependant on you. What seams to be the easiest way to achieve that is to over-invest in her emotionally. Making sure you've done everything you can to keep her, because as a beta this may be the only chance you will have to pass on your genes.
Woman do not over-invest emotionally, because they have to be sure this is the "right guy". Throughout the whole mating process they will have to filter out all the betas and find the alpha male, which will hopefully give her healthy children with desirable traits.
Lastly, if none of it makes sense to you, or it does and you want to know more, I'd recommend reading "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins.
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FLFTW16 8y ago
Some truly blue pill dudes have downvoted you. It's pathetic.
From a guy that lives in Thailand and has been to Pattaya about 6 times: no video you see can do Pattaya or Bangkok justice. You have to be here to experience it. Save those dollas and buy the plane ticket. As we say here: "Good guys go to Heaven, Bad guys go to Pattaya"
Invalidity 8y ago
Marriages served to provide both parties with whatever they required from the other party. Men received a partner who would maintain his property and tend to their children. Women would receive security and resources.
You strip away gender roles and divert all resources to women, and the end result is a greater statistic for marriages ending in divorce. Some might say, "Divorce is sometimes necessary when parents do not get along." That is true to that extent, but to the extent of children involved, a failed marriage is a broken home. It doesn't matter if both parents remarry and are happier, their children are now part of a broken home.
The bottomline is: most marriages cannot be sustained unless gender roles are enforced.
BluepillProfessor 8y ago
Bingo! That is some deep magic truths revealed right there fellows.
Now why would the Marxist focus on blurring gender roles???
systemshock869 8y ago
In my experience, even among "enlightened" idealists who shun gender roles, if they have a strong healthy relationship they still for the most part naturally fall into those roles. They just aren't allowed to talk about it.
There are happy couples in which the dudes are perfectly content keeping their nuts in a crystal bowl on the coffee table and everything they do is planned together and "equal." You find these guys are more like lap dogs though - unmasculine and end up being controlled by the emotions and whims of their wives. I don't remember the quote, but it's something like "in an equal environment, women win." The "needs" are strong and only increase in number. In these cases of supreme equality, being a good, attentive husband without consideration for the possible (or likely) invalidity of their partner's desires and the necessity for a true leader in the relationship, they really just end up as slaves. There's nothing inherently wrong with that I guess, if they're happy. Most men won't be, though.
I don't see TRP as some 'end all, be all' philosophy of the universe, rather a guide for emasculated men to get their lives back where they want them to be. It teaches a leadership hierarchy because that is simply a necessity for a capable, masculine man who wants a fulfilling relationship and a happy partner to share in his adventures. If you don't feel emasculated by structuring your entire life around a female and riding her roller coaster, more power to you.
[deleted] 8y ago
Very good article.
Men to heed all of this information before considering marriage.
BurnYourFlag 8y ago
Most financial issues come from being a beta to be honest. I never spend money on trivial things, and i would rather go without a drink than buy one. When i didn't have a ltr or family to stay with (Free) for a week i lived outside and sleeped behind my gym ( free showers). I buy food in bulk, never turn on lights, and wear the same clothes i bought 3 years ago. Only real expense is about a gram of weed every month.(5$)
The averaghe beta male however is willing to go into debt to get a car/house/Clothes, because he feels he entitled to them.
Edit: fixed some grammer
cmkinusn 8y ago
Don't you think all of those steps are wasted when you could have put your effort into finding the right career path? Earning more is always better than saving the same amount, and most of your effort should be toward the long term goal of earning more and more until you don't need to anymore. Saving is important, but not reducing your quality of life to a ridiculous level.
BurnYourFlag 8y ago
I'm only 18 my career path is very open I just don't have the money to pursue my dream job yet. That's why I save so hard
[deleted] 8y ago
I don't agree with not having feelings. I love my dog unconditionally; I'll still scold him when he shits in the house and put him down when the time comes. I think a juvenile opinion on trp is that the answer is to be so closed off you love nothing and connect with nothing. This is in direct contrast with true emotional control. It's the same logic we saw in hs when the person from a bad home was always the most guarded - fear of being hurt by those they love. This sub has an underlying Buddhist methodology, and Buddhist methodology reminds us to look our emotions, fears, insecurities, etc. directly in the eye and examine thoroughly.
If you think you've reached enlightenment and seen the Buddha, kill the Buddha and keep searching.
[deleted] 8y ago
Holy fucking shit that is long. I will read it later. BUMP.
trpMilo 8y ago
Not about the main point of the article, but I think it's worth noting for one's conception of the past that the "rule of thumb" is and always has been a folk legend. In fact the Wikipedia article you linked to says as much. At no point in Anglo-American law has beating your wife been condoned. The difference is that now we have separate, specific laws (that assume the guilt of the man) that address this while in the past it fell under general assault.
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[deleted] 8y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6004
skoobled 8y ago
You also have to screen out women who are faking it
Interisti10 8y ago
Jesus is it really gonna to be that bad?
PS this was on front page
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fingerthemoon 8y ago
There's no point getting upset over something you cannot control. Be thankful that you now see things for how they really are and can protect yourself from women.
Besides, without a wife and children you can do whatever you want with your life and there is so much cool shit to do.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Love how you think I'm upset. Makes me chuckle.
Try re-reading it as a statement of fact. I'm an extremely cold, analytical person. Remove the emotional projection and you'll get a lot more out of my writing.
Same goes for everybody else here who seems to think an analytical piece on a highly emotional topic makes the piece emotional. If it tugs at your heart strings, that makes perfect sense. If it makes you angry... well I wonder what phase you're in. If you're instantly dismissive and say there's a simple solution.. again... I wonder what obvious phase you're in.
I did put one genuinely emotional bit in it, because it's pretty much impossible for me to hide my distain - so I didn't.
This is the only reply I'm going to make on this particular theme because I need to get going in a little bit and don't have time to reply to everyone. I hope everybody can come back to their replies here in a week or two and analyse them objectively to see where they are. Most won't, but I hope some will. It will assist your personal insight.
RedSugarPill 8y ago
This is very well written, and speaks to our generational problem concisely. It comes at a good time for me, because I am at the age where I really need to reconsider my current career because I will retire homeless if I don't start making several times more than my current salary. I appreciate the context, and it reminds me that we are all in this shithouse together...
Polaris382 8y ago
Yeah, but there is a balance too.
I recently lost a relationship with a very good and high quality woman from being TOO aloof/emotionally unavailable/terrible at showing affection/etc (not the first time this has happened to me). I liked her a lot too, but old habits and mentalities die hard. You do need to be willing to incorporate some "romance" and shit to a degree for an actual relationship.
There were some other issues, like her wanting to start a family soon whereas I dont know if I want kids at all ever, but I think the biggest thing was me being too cold and distant.
Genuinely good women are rare, so if you find one and would like to keep her dont get too carried away with being Mr. "Alpha" 100% to the point where she thinks you are just completely indifferent to her.
SplashArtist 8y ago
I bet you she left because her eggs are running dry and needed to find someone willing to settle down ASAP and couldn't wait on your indecisiveness. The being too aloof probably was just the icing on the cake at best.
Polaris382 8y ago
Well she is only 27 and feels like the clock is ticking hard (she is Haitian and Dominican with much more traditional and Catholic upbringing so you see), but obviously not that old.
Unfortunately a lot of those factors that built her into a good woman, are the same ones things that built her into the strong desire for having kids and settling down, etc.
She was perceptive enough to see that in the end we most likely arent on the same page (Im not 100% closed off to having kids, but...). Its definitely one of those things I struggle with the ambivalence of (having a family), but I wont ramble on about that.
You both are probably right though.
[deleted] 8y ago
Why unfortunately ? we were made to have offspring, it's our way to survive individual death.
Would you rather have her with you another 10 years and leave her wrecked and hopeless after ?
I appreciate TRP strategy but there is a limit to what extend it's doable without destroying lifes. We do play traps like women do, but men should have the capacity to understand and rejoyce for other people good choices.
I would try not to be sad for myself but to understand the alternative was not good for her, and she succesfully understood that. If you liked her, it's the point where you could move on with a smile knowing she took the best option for herself. The more you are the alpha you want to be, the more it shouldn't be problematic i think ( i'm not so alpha yet so i'm guessing ).
[deleted] 8y ago
A few questions come to mind after reading your post:
What percentage of US women fit the LTR "rare woman" category? My guess is that it starts relatively high with teenage girls but steadily declines to zero as they age.
To what extent can a strong frame compensate for the damaged women our society creates? Can a strong man mold, or even heal a woman? The idealist in me would like to believe so but its a high risk maneuver and the pragmatist wants to steer clear all together.
Rasalom72 8y ago
I would think it would be high with preteenage girls... but drop off rapidly after they hit 20...
You can't fix a broken women. If she's been on the CC for a while, and had multiple partners, her pair bonding mechinism is damaged, and prehaps permanently broken.
QoL is at an all time high in the US. People live longer and have better health, but the cost is high for men...
cariboo_j 8y ago
Dude, teens and preteens are generally awful, selfish people. Their brains aren't developed.
always-be-closing 8y ago
^ This is why having actual Fathers and actual Mothers is a necessity for young boys and young girls.
It is the only way you turn them into Men, into Women.
Otherwise they become the vast sea of betas and sluts we have now.
Failure always comes from weakness. Insufficiency always derives from insufficiency. Only when the choice is obvious; when it is clear that continued weakness will lead to destruction, is there a change.
Wait for it patiently –annihilation or metamorphosis
cariboo_j 8y ago
Children's and teen's brains haven't fully developed. Especially the spots for empathy and self control.
sharp7 8y ago
QOL is physically higher with better healthcare and tech. But happiness and satisfaction is on the rapid decline. People are only getting unhappier as time goes on.
FLFTW16 8y ago
This is a problem with language. Terms are normalized and accepted. We don't have healthcare we have sickcare. Quality of life is not higher because people live into their 90s. I'd argue that quality is way way lower. Look around, everyone is obese, tired, and depressed, eating fake food from McDonalds, shopping for Chinese goods from Walmart, staring into their phone screens when they aren't staring into their computer screens.
100 years ago people lived on small farms, rose before the sun, did physical labor which made them appropriately fit, made independent decisions and were not micromanaged by government and corporate bureaucracy, ate real food that they grew or raised themselves, cooked by their mom or sister or wife using family recipes that existed for generations. A trip to the doctor cost a lot but was rarely needed.
Give me 1915 over 2015 any damn day.
angryuser_trp 8y ago
I partially agree with you, but nowadays we tend to only see the good things in past lifestyles. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to live in 1915, which is way before you could get vaccinated for many diseases that would make your life otherwise miserable - if only because you'd have to watch your children die to them.
Feel free to check Youtube documentaries about Agafia Lykova and read this http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russian-family-was-cut-off-from-all-human-contact-unaware-of-world-war-ii-7354256/?no-ist
FLFTW16 8y ago
Well it's interesting you mention that, because there are now resurgences of diseases, such a measles, in which vaccines exist but people choose not to use them. People 100 years ago would have predicted a utopia in which diseases are cured, no one would have foreseen a dystopia in which diseases are cured but the cures are shelved because public trust in institutions are at all time low.
Why is public trust in things--like government, healthcare, police, schools, etc--at an all time low? There are a number of theories but the two biggest reasons are diversity and the philosophical victory of post-modernism in which narrative, perspective and "lived experience" trumps facts and scientific rigor. Places with more diversity such as Los Angeles (California incidentally is the epicenter of anti-vaccers) have the lowest scores for public trust.
There will always be a new virus or plague that infects and kills people. We just saw a new Ebola outbreak last year and there are new strains of influenza every year. H1N1, H1N2, H2N1, H3N1, H3N2, H2N3, etc. It will keep evolving and mutating until the right combination is made to kill millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, or even billions. Personally I worry about diseases about as much as I worry about asteroid impacts wiping us out. I have no control over it so I don't give a fuck. We all have to die sometime, the question on my mind is how do we live?
angryuser_trp 8y ago
Indeed, the anti-vaccer movement (if we can call it a movement) is known to me. But I'm not gonna discuss them here - even if we wanted to, there's not much to discuss. They're just stupid and that's that.
And you're right, at some point something could mutate and gain enough lethality to kill millions or more. That I can't myself do anything about. But I still won't idealize living off-grid 1915-style, all-manual labor, no vaccines etc. Because I know that would be silly. Instead (coincidentally) I am just now getting a house with orchard in the back and a field in front. I will be able to grow and manually harvest whatever I like - if I find the time to appropriately care for all of that... No need to go back in time.
FLFTW16 8y ago
I am looking to do the same thing: buy a house with land.
It's not about idealizing the past, just recognizing what works and what doesn't. In any event as there is no time machine to go back to 1915 we are stuck adapting and surviving in the present condition.
Do you lift or exercise? This is a 20th century invention to deal with the lifestyle problem of mass urbanization. Men and boys who grew up on a family farm didn't need to lift, they just worked the farm. Kids walked to school.
As much as I enjoy strength training and running I see how absurd it is. I'd rather be physically working the land because then I would both get exercise and have produce be it vegetables, fruit, lumber, livestock, whatever. Kill two birds with one stone, as it were.
But the point is: exercise is good for bodily health, it is the best vaccine against depression and illness. We have this "vaccine" called exercise... yet almost no one uses it! In 1915 people obtained this vaccine by going about their daily life... working the farm, walking to school, etc. In 2015 no one has time and exercise is almost a luxury. Just by picking up some weights several times a week a man catapults himself into the top 20%. It's esoteric knowledge and simultaneously the most pathetic turn of events, that society has degenerated to this point.
Trudge on, I suppose, is all that can be done. Grin and bear it.
angryuser_trp 8y ago
Hehe, gotta agree on all that. I do lift. I have to. My sedentary job has gotten to me some time ago through nasty back pains. Doc said it's because my back muscles are too weak... So I started to lift and the back pain has not come back since...
Good luck with finding the right property!
[deleted] 8y ago
Men of antiquity didn't have the need to "fall in love" and "develop a deep emotional connection" with their women. They lived in times of almost constant close combat, long military campaigns, slaves, prostitutes, rape.
They had something we never will -- the love of their brothers in arms and an incredibly close bond with their sons.
We really don't know what it means to march into battle--not with guns, but with swords and spears--and depend on the protection of the man's shield to your right. To march to your possible death, with your king at the helm, singing the mighty paean in unison, to protect your nation, women, children--but ultimately, your will and autonomy.
Technology has destroyed the natural spirit of war. It has destroyed the natural spirit and importance of man. We know nothing as modern men. We are nothing as modern men. Our trials and tribulations are a pathetic farce in comparison to those of our antique ancestors.
I urge every man here who hasn't done so yet, to read Steven Pressfield's Gates of Fire, Tides of War, Virtues of War and the Afghan Campaign. And then to read Thucydides and Herodotus.
redzorp 8y ago
All true. But in the interludes between battle, I am certain many men did fall in love with their wives.
Maybe the exception were the Spartans, who, contrary to the film 300, viewed wives purely as reproductive units, with love being reserved for their comrades in arms.
cariboo_j 8y ago
I think you're idealizing the past.
Schopenhauer wrote this in the 1850's:
"...So that their conscience does not trouble them so much as we imagine, for in the darkest depths of their hearts they are conscious that in violating their duty towards the individual they have all the better fulfilled it towards the species, whose claim upon them is infinitely greater.
Because women in truth exist entirely for the propagation of the race, and their destiny ends here, they live more for the species than for the individual, and in their hearts take the affairs of the species more seriously than those of the individual. This gives to their whole being and character a certain frivolousness, and altogether a certain tendency which is fundamentally different from that of man; and this it is which develops that discord in married life which is so prevalent and almost the normal state."
Augustus Caesar in ancient Roman times wrote a speech about how men need to get married for the good of Rome, even though dealing with women is a pain in the ass.
The real problem is humans didn't evolve to mate for life.
scissor_me_timbers00 8y ago
Fuck I forgot how much I love Schopenhauer. Thx for the ingenious quote.
CowardlyPetrov 8y ago
Spot on, but why is it never included to just leave this fucking shit country?
How can you make an analysis like this and not even considering getting up and leaving? How can guys consider escaping into fantasy but not reality?
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tallwheel 8y ago
Great post, but one small nitpick.
The "rule of thumb" was never legally forced, and there is no evidence for certain that the term was ever widely used in reference to beating one's wife. The wikipedia link you included explains this, and your hero Girlwriteswhat has covered this in a video I recall as well.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Fair enough. Perhaps then something different happened and the birth of romanticism was mankind attempting to purchase a luxury we couldn't really afford. Said luxury may have started the decline maybe.
It wasn't really a key point and I'm not a historian, but thanks for catching that.
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
Well, I'm not miserable, nor did my grandparents drive a Ferrari (did anyone's? Outside of Italy?), and I am going to posit an alternative view:
The Decline now frees men more than ever. For those who reject marriage (an increasing number) they no longer have to accumulate the wealth required to support a wife and children. That gives men much more flexibility to work jobs that provide enough for them alone, leave work to travel or whatever, return later.
Once the men not interested in marriage vote with their feet, that leaves a smaller group of men to compete for marriageable women. The problem becomes one of too many fatties--so there are fewer marriageable women, unless one's tastes run to the bovine.
For anyone interested in actually marrying and fathering kids, it becomes a matter of isolating and pursuing a suitable girl. To avoid sluts (on the whole), avoid places where sluts congregate: i.e. bars and clubs.
The trick: find an introvert. If you're out and you see a group of girls, ignore the attention whores and find the awkward chick on the edges. Or if it's a bachelorette party, find the one not wearing any cheesy wedding-themed bling.
Bottom Line: If you are looking for a potential LTR/wife, Day Game is your friend.
Happy slaying.
Uncle Vasya
redzorp 8y ago
Really not much of an alternative view, Uncle V.
You're still saying that the world out there for men is pretty much shit (which it is) and to simply make the best of it - which is pretty much what OP was saying.
Only thing I agree with you on is that none of our grandparents drove Ferraris, Italy or not.
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
Depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for a wife, a picket fence, a tire swing, 2.8 kids and 1.2 dogs, it's not out there. What is out there is less hassle, less need to join the rat race and more freedom....if you choose it.
I think it's actually women who have it worse: they're told they're wonderful, they can do anything, etc. They got everything they thought they wanted, and they're STILL not happy.
slay_it_forward 8y ago
No what he's saying is that the alternative to having a a good woman and kids isn't all that bad, which I would agree with, based on my recent experience.
I worked for a big oil company making well into the six figures, working long office hours, trying to build a career that would support the wife and kids I thought were coming. Well, my long time live-in gf went to her home town for xmas and cheated on me, fucking up that entire plan.
Admittedly I was painfully beta at the time but thought I was doing everything right. Not that long after the break up I found TRP and said fuck it. I asked myself, why am I slaving away for this corporation when I don't need all this money and have no time to enjoy it? Why am I saving for a retirement?
So I quit my job and traveled the world for a year. Fucked girls all over eastern Europe and south east Asia. Started training muay thai and writing on a blog. It's been like a mini early retirement. It's had it's ups and downs but overall a pretty satisifying life.
[deleted] 8y ago
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VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
That's going to be a tall order. You're going to have to go where tradcon Christian girls are, and work on cracking one of those oysters.
Also, as my friends with kids advise, the big jump is from two kids to three, where you lose the man-to-man defense are have to play zone all the time. Once you have three, four isn't a big deal, but better to get started while you're young.
Best of luck.
Piroko 8y ago
WRONG! Conan, what is best in life?
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.
Ronin11A 8y ago
The fact that this was downvoted is proof we've got pussies infiltrating the ranks.
[deleted] 8y ago
(In Peyton Manning voice): I like it.
[deleted] 8y ago
This seems like an odd context but I loled
[deleted] 8y ago
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LordGinge 8y ago
I thought Pokemon could only speak their own names? Clever fucking Pokemon that Kangaskhan is.
NaughtyFred 8y ago
I find it very disingenuous when red pill males (especially endorsed contributors like yourself) make statements like:
Yeah, I'm sure you and those like you are crying yourselves to sleep every night after fucking one of your plates.
Though it is a well reasoned post in general.
[deleted] 8y ago
Jesus Christ it's not that bad man. If you like a plate promote her to LTR and keep an eye on your finances. You don't have to marry a girl to have a long and meaningful relationship. You can't talk in absolutes like this anymore. It is a simplistic view great for click bait content but not applicable in real life.
Most red pillers are scared to get involved in a LTR because of the horror stories presented here. Fine. You have been warned about marriage and cohabitation but you can still enjoy a decent woman. Just don't buy her out, keep your cash and avoid single mothers.
Fafner2 8y ago
Lol this is the worst advice I've ever seen here. Promoting an easy slut to a long-term relationship is about the worst thing that you could do.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Agreed.
You can perfectly well fall in love with a good woman and have a great relationship. And yes if you go full retard beta she will be disgusted and leave you. 50 years ago she would be disgusted and make your life a living hell since she couldn't leave. I prefer the current situation compared to fantasizing about some mythical era where marriage turned humans into perfect beings.
[deleted] 8y ago
I rather be alone than with a woman who doesn't like me anymore. It's never fun no matter how hot she is. Today we have the knowledge of women and the option to gauge her level of interests while raising our SMV (If we wish to do so) so it's a win-win if kids are not your #1 priority. If kids are your #1 priority you should impregnate a local girl in a 3rd world country and help her raise the kid. No Marriage Contract is needed. If she leaves you you keep your money.
[deleted] 8y ago
"Bad" is an entirely subjective term.
Are you the type of guy who didn't want to have a family and instead wanted to have a ton of casual, vapid sexual experiences? Things are looking pretty good.
Are you the type of guy who wants to be a family man and pour his love into them? Things are looking pretty bad.
A good amount of men fall into that second category. For them the ideal is the beta life: oneitis, the pedestal, all that fairy tale bullshit. In the past that was a viable option but now no longer. Sure the pussy might be easier to get but the value is gone.
[deleted] 8y ago
"Are you the type of guy who wants to be a family man and pour his love into them?"
Was this always a realistic option or just a dream? Do you think the 50s were perfect and all married couples were happy? Even if divorce laws were fair back in the day living with a woman who didn't want to be there anymore was Hell.
If you really want a "good" woman you have to find one who is beautiful on the inside.
Look at older couples. The women rarely looks more than homely. You wouldn't fuck her with your enemy's dick but she's nice and stable. She might turn into a nag and one day you'll end up with a nagging old troll wife.
It's always a gamble with humans because we are parasites. We haven't evolved past monkeys wearing clothes status on the cosmic life scale. Advanced alien life forms probably still group us with monkeys in their education curriculum.
jtcribbs 8y ago
You don't really know much about generations before Baby Boomers I can tell...you never spent much time around those folks who were say, age 40 in about 1956, and even older. You're too young too understand. Their relationships were much higher quality than what is found today...
always-be-closing 8y ago
Around the world, in different times and places, it has been this way.
Look up the differential in STDs based on religion, look up the differential in premarital sex and extramarital sex based on religion.
Look up the US's marriage rates and average first marriage age and divorce rates over time.
We talk about the 'decline' because what's happened has been a devolution; a fall from grace.
[deleted] 8y ago
Nothing is perfect. Nothing is black and white. But we can observe things sliding in one direction or another.
A woman will adapt to her man. The same girl can be a nagging wretch to one man and turn around and be an affable nympho to another. Everyone has the nature for bad and good.
cmkinusn 8y ago
So true. It seems women are so reactionary to life that they can completely change their active personality to the person they are with.
TheVikingPrince 8y ago
I was thinking about this exact idea today, mostly with respect to the fact that by the pedestalization of the pussy, and the "disney" effect men today are crippled. We can only disconnect emotionally, and get routine wild sex from women we don't care about. Or become a beta provider and risk a woman walking away from you and taking your children and money with her. There is no inbetween. You brought up that there is a TINY percentage thay this may be possible and that is true! But what are the chances you will cross paths with that percentage? Almost none. Woe is me
IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 8y ago
Came here almost two years ago: skipped the denial phase, spent about 5 seconds in the anger phase, skipped the bargaining phase, pretty much went right to the depression phase, been here ever since. Want to get to (and through) acceptance but just can't ever seem to cross the threshold. Every once in a while I read a post (like this one) that starts off with "Let's talk about how to get past depression and into acceptance!!"--and then I read the post, and look at the final conclusion and think "Yep!! Still in depression... Hell, I'm even more depressed now!!"
The thing is, maybe "depression" isn't the best way to put it, exactly, as I'm actually pretty content with my life right now... I think "disillusioned" might be the most apt descriptor for the phase I'm in--and I'm wondering, really, if there's anything beyond that. Ever. (Maybe then "disillusioned" IS acceptance?? Am I already here without even realizing it? Is "contentment" the most you can ever hope for, after swallowing the pill?) As The Matrix so eloquently put it: NEO: "There's no going back, is there?" MORPHEUS: "No. But even if you could, would you want to?"
Also, seems to me the current relationship market is very much a mirror of the current financial market. Take all the financial regulations out of the economy, unshackle the traders on Wall Str etc, and watch the Law of Attraction kick in as all the money energy rapidly accumulates around just a few people at the very top of the pyramid (the people who already have money attract more money, while everyone else who has "little or no money" attracts more "little or no money"). Likewise, remove the shackles of monogamy from society, and watch all the sex energy rush to just a few alphas at the very top. Same exact thing.
chalcedon_knight 8y ago
And what is behind this decline? Where does the trail lead?
[deleted] 8y ago
We're a special kind of poor with access to unprecedented technology and opportunity. But in human terms and emotional terms we are indeed quite poor.
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