As I became more Red Pill, I've tended to read less of the manosphere. It repeats things I already know, have learned and have enacted in my life. It's less useful to me and I think most RP men would agree that as you move forward and improve your life and your SMV, less and less of what is posted on the TRP sub is of use to you. So if I feel this way, why am I still here? There's two reasons, the first is simple, I want to give back. It makes me feel good to know I'm helping other men to improve their lives in a world where having a good life as a man is becoming harder and harder. The second... is the rest of this post.
I strongly believe in the stoic style of behaviour (not the full philosophy) and impassive responses to things you can't control. I think it helps your attitude, your game, your approach to life in general. To achieve this, you need to have control over your emotions. Newbies tend to suffer the most with this, they meet a hot girl and act like they don't care... but they really do. It leaks into their behaviour sometimes. How do you beat it? You control yourself. You don't allow that intoxicated feeling to take over and text her a million times.
That said, even the best of us will suffer from unhelpful emotions that tell us to do the opposite of what we know is best from a Red Pill perspective. Why is this? It's because we were designed that way. We are men. We were designed by evolution to improve and achieve to attract women, have sex with as many as possible, then find the best woman on offer, fall in love with her, protect her, our children, and sacrifice as needed to ensure their future survival/success. This is our base nature as men. Our emotions and instincts kindly denote this to us and it was fine for most of history. It worked.
Unfortunately the modern world has unrestricted hypergamy so badly that male nature has become counter-productive if you want to have a successful sex life... even just a successful life. Beta bob can achieve good income, good looking wife and kids etc... doesn't stop him getting divorce raped and subsequently losing everything he held dear... all because of his nature to protect and provide for his woman and children. To try and make their lives better and make them happy. To try and help them achieve their dreams.
The past year, every woman I've slept with, I've slept with her within a few hours of meeting her for the first time. (My game is almost brutally efficient. I have no time for women who pretend they can out-dominate me and immediately walk away.) But even I suffer from the nature of men. Women over on RedPillWomen understand their nature and try to control it as best they can in order to lead happy lives with their husbands and boyfriends. This is to be respected, and in turn, we can learn something there which is implied but never explicitly stated here on TRP: understand your own nature and control it as best you can.
First amongst this is to control your feelings. Oneitis is a very real threat for all men. It is in our nature to fall in love and place a woman above ourselves. It is also now a serious problem for the modern man. There's a base urge to protect and support women - keep it in check! Which brings me full circle to my second reason why I keep coming back. I re-read old reasons and read new examples of hypergamy in action. I remind myself why it is so dangerous to allow the wrong aspects of male nature to take control of me.
I remind myself why I need to keep my emotions in check. Why I need to control my nature.
[deleted] 8y ago
Controlling the emotion is the step I am trying my damnedest to do. This is happening with my LTR who became my ex recently. One minute I'm over it the next I'm like a fucking beta bucks with oneitis.
This right there. That is what I strive for. Well boys, time to go hit the iron and let off some steam.
NaughtyFred 8y ago
How long did it take you to develop this brutally efficient game?
How long did it take you to raise your SMV to the point where it was "on message" with your game?
How low down the SMV ladder where you when you started?
YukariTakeba 8y ago
It doesn't matter how long or how far he improved. What matters is what he has done every single day to be where he is.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Months.
Months.
I was average - male average, which given how women view men on a skewed scale, I was like a 4 or something like that. I was a greater beta because of my abnormally high intelligence that allowed me to push my way into status positions within groups... so while I wasn't slaying like a prince, I was having some long term relationships with both attractive and average women. (I didn't really have a clue what I was doing though... I thought I did but really I didn't. Shit never made sense until I discovered TRP.)
None of the change comes quickly, but the monk mode took about 5 or 6 months. I remember during it, I started having a go at making approaches after 3 months. Realised it was a total waste of time until I'd raised my SMV further... as I did more reading and collected more advice, I became more and more disenchanted with what I was doing after collecting my first couple of plates - with quite a bit of effort - and felt pursuing women was a waste of time.
I adapted my game style accordingly and now put absolutely minimal effort in. Quite literally, if a woman doesn't fall into my path then I'm not using valuable energy, which I could expend having fun, going out of my way to speak to her. So most of my approaches either happen at the bar or when girls are literally standing next to me for whatever reason. Gatherings of friends are pretty useful for this because people mingle naturally. I think that doing this seems to amplify my game because I'm having genuine fun any time I talk to a girl and my IDGAF attitude probably measures off the charts.
So yeah, you could probably call my game style lazy as much as it is brutally efficient. Though I'm certain it is partly due to the fact that women rate very low on my list of "things I care about." Not all of my approaches achieve a conversation, but since I haven't really bothered putting in the effort then the negative is about as minimal as it gets. Having plates that you're already spinning will also make sure you're happy enough to walk away from a chick who is too much effort or shit tests too much or constantly tries to control frame. They're not worth the effort in my opinion... again, probably why I tend to move to close so quickly because I'm just not willing to put in effort with women who seem like they won't be a straightforward close. This just seems like common sense to me, but hey... if you're without abundance or in a dry spell then it might be harder to take that attitude. I hope hearing about the end product (am I the end product? I don't know... I try not to think that because I think it's a counter-productive attitude when you're looking to constantly improve) is as motivational as you say it is.
NaughtyFred 8y ago
Lying in wait like a crocodile in a river. Nice method.
One thing I know from trp is that there is no end point per se, but you're certainly further up the ladder than myself, that and the fact you started average does motivate me.
My own monk mode isn't over till my employment situation improves (wip), your attempts at gaming before you were ready/SMV level appropriate reinforces my decision not to waste my time/energy beyond flirting encounters and instead focus on continuing to improve myself (starting from below average, so you have an idea of how that goes).
Thanks for the detailed and insightful response.
ComplementaryColour 8y ago
How long? This is real life buddy. You dont have a visual progress bar that you can rely on. If you want to rush to the time in the future when you might be that good then you're viewing the entire thing from a fucked up stand point!
You should enjoy every second. Becaus there is only the now. As good as you are tomorrow will be the best you've ever been and you should take full advantage of that.
You're too much in your head. Go out and do game and love every second of it. Results will come naturaly, but if you keep your eyes on the results you'll miss everything inbetween, which is vital for success.
NaughtyFred 8y ago
You're reading more into my questions than is there.
Reading about other people climbing the ladder encourages me to continue climbing.
The rest of what you wrote is very encouraging. Thanks
ComplementaryColour 8y ago
Im trying to get your innergame straight. How you view this will determen how far you climb.
NaughtyFred 8y ago
Thank you, I appreciate that. Still learning.
ManOfGrapes 8y ago
My woman was crying the other night about one thing or another, and I found myself getting irritated. Thought about calling her an annoying bitch, maybe dumping a bucket of water on her and even going over to her and consoling her, like a good little boy -- a full range of reactions.
But I realized that she was doing what women will do, taking her emotional rollercoaster ride and slamming it into my frame. Trying to capitalize on my ocean of testosterone flowing through my body, hoping to see a reaction. So I looked up at her, calmly said "not right now" and kept eating my dinner. It was quiet the rest of the night.
david_kimba 8y ago
You made me wet. Just for clarification i am a man. With a penis. With balls.
throwaway-aa2 8y ago
I was going to call you an evil genius because it seemed like you were calling her "it", as in "it puts the lotion in the basket."
cheeky_throwaway101 8y ago
This could be a good mindset to adopt actually. Good thinking.
[deleted] 8y ago
Love your writing. Clear, to the point. Great post. Reminds me that TRP is a sort of method to help men evolve in today's world.
htbf 8y ago
I think everyone knows self control is vital and necessary. But you're not giving a single tip on how to become unfazed by the pussy and female beauty and how to keep it under control.
For example, I stumbled on this picture earlier and I realised that every single time I was in that position (i.e. an attractive girl on my arm), I had a boner. I may be able to make it go away by focusing but that's not ideal. The ideal situation is not to be affected at all by it. Notice it, acknowledge it for it is (an IOI in most situations, nothing in others), but that's where it should stop.
Now, as much as I know that and have known it for a while, it doesn't help me one single bit into not having that boner and not surrendering power to the girl.
Fafner2 8y ago
Indeed-- our biology makes it so that we want to bend any woman we like over a table and fuck her there and then. It takes mental fortitude to not do the next, most acceptable thing, and compliment/fall into the usual traps of feeding a woman's ego just for the chance to fuck her (the beta strategy).
But just keep in mind that post-orgasm state where you realize how much false pretense is behind everything, and how powerful the human male sex drive is.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
This post is the tip on self-control. Identify your nature and be self-aware of it so that you won't allow those damaging emotions to take over. Take the RPW and how they deal with their nature of wanting to shit test - they think before they speak and something as simple as this stops them saying stupid shit. You can do exactly the same.
You can't "not be affected" by it. The emotion itself is the effect. Besides, you don't want to be biologically "not affected" anyway because then you don't get the boners anymore! You kinda need that for a successful sexual strategy.
There is no ideal solution. "Focus" as you say is one way. Slowing down is also a good way to deal with emotions. Don't act rashly. (It's also good advice for game. Don't respond just because you feel the urge to. Stop and think before you speak. Silence isn't a bad thing if you're comfortable. It's even a useful tool.) Think before you act. When you feel an emotion, think about whether it is productive or unproductive to follow it.
htbf 8y ago
Thank you for your answer. I understand what you're trying to convey but I still don't find it helpful.
I think boners drain the blood from up there to down there, making it very hard and near impossible to think clearly. I'm not looking for a way to eradicate them, but simply to be stoic enough that just a simple touch by a cute girl doesn't reroute all the fuckin blood in my dick. I love being aroused, I love channeling it and expressing with my eyes and my words like a psychopath, but it takes great mental work. What I want is being capable of the opposite and negate the sexual tension if I don't feel like amplifying and playing on it. I want to be able to enjoy a moment with a girl who's touching me lightly without having to choose between "overtly sexual behaviour" and "brainless flower". Exactly like M. Dicaprio in the picture. He's keeping composure and full control of his mental capacities (and doesn't have to hide a bulge in his pants) and he doesn't have to take a minute to focus or slow down his emotions.
I was at a friend's place two weeks ago and an ex girlfriend of his dropped by because she needed a place to crash and he felt he couldn't say "no". Their relationship never got sexual because he didn't want it to be sexual and therefore, after he let her go, she kept coming back to him and he kept turning down every single invitation from her, not seeing her for months. She once needed help and when he offered it and she didn't like it, she disrespected him by telling him "you're useless", he replied calmly while insulting her, a first for her because she was cute/sexy and no man ever talked to her like that.
Anyway, before she was there, my friend was all like "I have nothing to say to this girl after our last interactions" and "I'm thinking about maybe giving her the keys and crashing someplace else", etc. Well, that's a nice talk and I know he meant it all the way but when she got there and acted like she owned the fuckin place while still being nice, innocent, sexy and cute, he had no other choice but to play her game. He was supposed to her sleep by herself (he has many beds) yet he ended up sleeping in the same bed than her (without sex) because it's fuckin hard to concentrate about what's good for you when you have a hot chick (she works out a lot) in your bed.
This is a man who's quite alpha in his mind. He goes to the gym, he's actually passionate about it, and it shows. He plays soccer every week and doesn't have trouble talking to people (never saw him cold approach though). He doesn't read, nor does he have any other interesting hobby but he's still quite "in control" of his emotions. And despite all the frame he tried to construct beforehand, it has all fallen appart the moment his dick got the best of him. He was displeased with himself by the next day obviously but that's irrelevant.
I'd be OK with surrendering my brain once the girl is in my bed. But surrendering it because she put her hand on my arm ? It makes feel like a flower in the wind, without soul nor willpower and I'm not OK with that. When that happens, I lose assertiveness, judgment and a whole lot of IQ.
So, I ask you gain, hopeful that you may really help me to take the necessary actions : how to learn to stay a man with a functional brain around attractive women ?
Thanks again, this sub is really the last place where I feel I can talk about this stuff.
O_Son 8y ago
Oh yeah, and something my brother has always said that he does to avoid situations which are sort of similar to this is to notice the one of the woman's flaws and focus on it. There are probably better ways to approach the situation, but this may be the simplest approach to implement.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Remember they're human. They shit, fart, have snot in their noses. You could always try reminding yourself in the moment that these women do all the usual unattractive things which are a part of life. Have you never seen a lass without her makeup on?
As for advice on how to become more comfortable around attractive women. Go talk to them without sex or game being the goal. You'll probably get bored very quickly because the more attractive a woman is... the less she's had to do to get people to like her, so it's likely she's going to be extremely vapid and boring. That's not always the case, it's just pretty common. Getting your brain used to you being around attractive women should do the trick to give you a bit more control.
alveoli1 8y ago
This is a very good point. Most attractive women I know are super boring. They don't do too much with their lives besides watch netflix / tv and go out to eat / the bar.
O_Son 8y ago
I read both of your comments, they're very interesting and I can't say that I've ever encountered that exact situation. I've only been reading RP for a few months, something that I do which is probably similar is when a woman that I'm attracted to touches my bare skin I just kind of melt. Especially when I'm sore as shit from lifting weights and a friend puts her hands on my neck or shoulders, for example, a part of me just goes out the window, maybe it's all of the lessons I've learned here, and/or my frame. I can still talk fine and maintain composure as far as I can tell, but if a woman looks me in the eyes in this kind of situation I feel like my defensive walls have collapsed, like she can see all of the years of loneliness I've went through.
I don't know, maybe it's all in my head, or a neediness which I've suppressed to a certain degree. I have a Psychology BA and I'm working on my Master's, if I had to guess I'd say it's a result of childhood neglect, mainly not having my needs met or not having them met in an appropriate timeframe. Perhaps your situation is similar, the important thing is being exposed to the situations which cause the issue and with exposure you should have a diminished reaction.
This book may be helpful for you if you haven't read it, it's called No More Mr. Nice Guy:
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf
htbf 8y ago
Thank you for reading my comments and making the effort to see if you can relate.
I've read NMMNG a few weeks ago and I'm not sure I took much from it. It does ask of the reader to get very introspective and I'm afraid I can't do that by myself. I don't know how to analyse my past, my relationships with my parents and I don't know where to stop, how to not over-analyze and how to focus on the important and relevant stuff. Short story is : I would go to a NMMNG meeting in a heartbeat, but reading it alone was not the life changing experience I was hoping for.
The ironic thing is that when I started the book, I felt I could connect very strongly to this "Nice Guy". When I finished it, I wasn't sure anymore I was a Nice Guy. I probably have some traits (especially the "covert contract" thing where you give and expect, I do it constantly when I get a crush) but I'm really confused at the end. And without the absolute conviction that I have the syndrome, there is really nothing I can do.
O_Son 8y ago
A lot of things from the book didn't apply to me as well, but the most important characteristics applied to me, I'll attach the list from the beginning of the book to the bottom of this post.
I'm overly introspective, so just reading about someone else's issues can bring past issues/similarities to my mind's eye or whatnot- not to say that I forgot the issues, but they can be viewed in a different/more helpful context. I've forwarded the book on to several guys that I know, but only sent RP links to one person and I don't think he's ready for it. The good thing about the book is it gives concrete/objective examples, and traits, like the covert contracts that you mentioned which are a very important aspect of the Nice Guy.
Even if you don't analyze your past and your upbringing (which is helpful to some degree), the important thing is that you're made aware of patterns of behavior- like many behavioral patterns, covert contracts are counterproductive. In the past I always thought of myself as being a very helpful and giving person, and I still consider myself to be, but do I do this on my own freewill or because I want someone to notice/help me because I need help? I was the middle child, so like all middle children I wasn't the firstborn or the baby of the family- I didn't occupy a specific role and wasn't really noticed by my family, the fact that I was very mature for my age (especially compared to my siblings) didn't help my situation because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. So in order to get attention I learned that I had to give, whether it be time, energy, or resources, more often than not my giving wasn't reciprocated so I learned early on that people aren't particularly helpful or kind, so I avoid them usually.
Here we are in the present and I noticed from the book that most people aren't like me and that I learned that, like most people, I'm operating from a learned behavior which isn't helpful and needs to be stopped if I'm ever going to be happy. Their point of view is probably that my giving is weird, or I'm too attached to them because most people aren't like me.
htbf 8y ago
I asked myself the same questions : am I nice to people out of genuine kindness or am I expecting something ? Do I caretake ? Do I seek approval ?
The answers weren't straightforward.
I'm the eldest in a family of three kids (two sisters) and I was the first born male in the larger family (with the last name of my grandfather). This simple fact gave me a very special place in my family's hearts. I was very loved even though I was a very very very turbulent kid growing up. I would wreck havoc in houses/weddings/restaurants and any public place. I have no recollection of this but every-time I'm with the family someone brings up a story he remembers of me being a turbulent kid.
Then, when I was 5, my parents moved to another country.
Growing up there as a young teen, I calmed down a lot, turning shy and introvert. I was still very loved by my (overprotective) mother and by the family. I never seeked their attention, I had it constantly. But apart from the family, I didn't have any other attention. I had very few friends in the new country and I think I never felt quite home (not sure about this). This took me all the way through high school, all the while I kept collecting unreciprocated crushes with always the same pattern : I've always had a crush on the most objectively beautiful girl in my environnement, ever since first grade, while ignoring the Tier 2 girls that I knew had a crush on me. I had a year long internet relationship in 2006 (I still don't know what to make of this, I probably learned a lot of stuff but since I've never met her, she might as well be a 40 yo he).
Then I graduated high school and came to France for higher studies. I was 18 and alone in a new country. And I liked it. My mother tried to keep taking to me every day but I imposed a greater distance (it wasn't easy for her, but I felt smothered). Ironically, it improved our relationship a great deal.
Very early, I connected with a PUA lair. I had previous knowledge of the existence of pick up artists (a friend had sent me the description of an AFC and I recognised myself in it). Anyway, I met them every week for the first year or so and we would do classic Mystery Method stuff, mostly sarging, and talking about theory. Very quickly, I gained a lot of confidence, become quite cocky, improved the way I express myself, enlarged my social circle quite a lot (people were surprised that I knew so much people) etc. But I was still having hopeless crippling crushes on the most beautiful girls around, especially since I didn't put much of the PUA teachings into action (I should have approached much much more).
After 3 years, I moved to a new small town and slowly decayed into something else. I spent 4 years there and it was the least interesting years of my life, except for the 6 months I spent in Norway, and once special thing that happened the summer between the first and second year : I nearly got arrested and locked away for a year for drug (weed) possession. Which brings us today. I'm 26, never had a serious relationship, with dreams and ambitions, a burning desire to unlock my full potential, but no fuckin clue on how to go about it.
O_Son 8y ago
Wow, I just typed two paragraphs and then hit the Escape key on accident and it deleted everything I wrote. Why the fuck would there be a single key that deletes everything you write in a comment box. Can't undo it or go back either.
htbf 8y ago
Well, take a deep breath and type it again. I'm sure it will be even better written the second time around :D
In any case, I kindda need to read it now, so figure it out !
O_Son 8y ago
I was running late yesterday when I had just finished typing out a response and I have a short-term memory condition so I'm not sure what I wrote. This is pretty similar to what I was going to say I think.
I'm 31 and I've only had one serious relationship of about 3 years so you're probably doing better than me. Since you've already developed confidence and enlarged your circle of friends before this shows what you're capable of. Crushing on the most attractive women around you sounds like a form of self-sabotage where you focus in one direction to avoid having to do what you really need to. I tend to crush too easily also, but it's mainly on women that are warm/sweet to me because I never really had that experience growing up.
[deleted]
thelawsofzen 8y ago
Self Control is an attainable state:
The key to self control is being confident, calm and collected.
I will list a simple method that can help those who are interested in attaining a controlled disposition regardless of circumstance.
The key is being stress free. Breathing deeply into your diaphragm will reduce stress and allow you to be present enough so you can control your actions and practice self control in all situations. This simple exercise will reduce anxiety and build confidence and control.