The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.
FlashedBlaze
Posted 10y ago in Red Pill Theory - Permalink - Locked - 1K Views
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thepur3 10y ago
svd
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JD42305 10y ago
A couple of things I would challenge is that a girl won't cheat if you're a strong man. I don't know if that's true all the time. I think you could be alpha as fuck and some girls will cheat no matter what just because they don't want to be tied down to just one cock.
Also, a girl does not get wet at the thought of you coming to talk to her. She gets wet at the thought of you talking to her if you get off your ass and take care of yourself. Might be unfair to pick that apart as it's just a simplification.
lulsause00 10y ago
NOW YOU'RE A MAYNUH
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imnothippymark 10y ago
I feel like I now owe you a beer for this
ubrayj02 10y ago
Tangential politicizing: I think it is a shame that dropping a bomb on Japan and the Truman-era stupidity that the U.S. engaged in is seen as being "a man" by a lot of Americans. Truman was the least popular president of the 20th century (until GW Bush).
ajswdf 10y ago
Goes to show how stupid popular opinion can be sometimes. Truman was one of the best presidents we've ever had, and better than any president since.
[deleted] 10y ago
We are not saying that "Truman was alpha". We are saying men of that time were. Not all men, just as a generality. And I'm pretty sure you knew that.
ubrayj02 10y ago
No, I think that Truman's ridiculous international politics are what a lot of Americans use to define what "manly" means - hence acts of war like dropping nukes on Japan are seen as bold and important, for example. Like I said in my post, it is tangential politicizing. I do not think that a militarized international politics should be associated with "manliness" since it is men, in general, who directly pay the consequences with their lives, resources, and body parts - that isn't manly, that is stupid.
x7CR7x 10y ago
Saving for later. Stupid Mobile
thecajunone 10y ago
What you using? Redditisfun app has a save function.
[deleted] 10y ago
Good post, especially for attractionforums. There is some serious gold in PUA - I really hate that seddit and PUA marketers have watered down what PUA once was. PUA used to be "Ok, women are X, men are Y, let's discuss how to get Y into X with consistency. I remember Tyler from RSD's old, old school "Social Intelligence" post (i think pre-The Game) literally unhinged my mind at the time. I was a young dude, like many of you I was sure I was smart as fuck. Smart, yes, socially smart, fuck no.
Or even David motherfucking affiliate marketing DeAngelo. That mofo's 77 laws of successful men was pure RP gold, way ahead of its time. I remember the final one - Be a Renaissance Man - and it's been 10 years.
It is a shame that PUA has basically become "Ok buddy boy, let's circle jerk about how you approached a girl. Did you fuck her? No, but that's fine because you were yourself! Wooo! No need to get into fitness, learn how to speak with deep tonality, and dress like a successful man. No need to learn how to act, because fuck tactics. Just be yourself! Own that shit!"
shadowq8 10y ago
i always find it funny how having a purpose in life is tied to being successful in every other minute matter.
Really find a real calling and all this stupid shit will stop worrying you.
Find a purpose.
GoodGuyAnusDestroyer 10y ago
I have met some of the best women in life when I wasn't pursuing them. I was simply pursuing myself, living my life, being successful and the rest just happened to fall into place. It's funny how it happens because as soon as I let myself be insecure or started thinking that I need a woman in my life it just didn't happen.
REDDITCanSuckMyCOCK 10y ago
Women pretty much never approach, so you would still have a -need- for a woman since you approached her, asked her out, took charge, invested in her etc. What you are saying is just some feel-good-bullshit, it seems like.
GoodGuyAnusDestroyer 10y ago
I have had women approach quite a few times. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. And no I didn't post this as some feel-good-bullshit. I'm speaking from experience.
REDDITCanSuckMyCOCK 10y ago
Even if they did approach (how often does that really happen that a beautiful woman would feel the need to approach? A real approach, and not just the "play with her hair, stand close, look over his directions once-a-while hoping to catch his attention"-approach), you would -still- have to play her mindgames, waste time on her bullshit etc etc.
NONE of this would you ever subject yourself to unless you felt some sort of -need- for a woman. Just saying "work on yourself and your goals, and woman will magically come to you" is nothing but a fantasy, a dream, bluepilled bullshit.
I still feel it is more worthwhile to just work on yourself, your career, your bodybuilding and fitness, MGTOW... but I won't kid myself that woman will come unless I approach and face lots of rejection and I generally pander to their bullshit.
TheRealLandingWood 10y ago
Women will never magically come to you unless your world wide famous and rich and have parties every week.
What it means when people say focus on your goals and women will come is that by having other accomplishments in life will improve you as a person and help you grow. With personal growth usually comes confidence and other traits that benefit you when dealing with women.
GoodGuyAnusDestroyer 10y ago
Hmmm... Maybe you're right. Enlighten me then. I want to learn.
thecajunone 10y ago
Sounds like he's talking out his ass, I'd ignore him and follow your own path.
strimpboi 10y ago
There's a difference between a want and a need. I WANT women in my life, but I don't NEED them in my life. I actually do quite well without them in my life, did it for years and always take a couple quality months to myself every year or so.
REDDITCanSuckMyCOCK 10y ago
The only thing you truly need is food, water and sleep. So "needing woman" is obviously just a way of saying that you have a big enough want for them.
strimpboi 10y ago
Look at it this way. When somebody says that a guy "needs" a woman, I see it as the guy being needy for attention. Having a big want for a woman as fine, as long as you have other options and aren't needy for her. Being blown away by a woman is fine, as long as you can lose her and not have it bother you.
deltron80 10y ago
I agree with all of that except for the faggotry about being social just for the sake of it to make life "a little less lonely." I have plenty of good friends, but I'm completely content alone. Needing other people for constant empty interaction is a form of weakness and this constant arbitrary demand that we be "social" encourages a lack of independence and womanish chatter.
lightfire409 10y ago
This is a great line.
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Redpillc0re 10y ago
By the time women begin to do that, (that is, acting a little like adults), their tits are sagging.
He's right about the feminization of the universe, but not much else.
[deleted] 10y ago
"Insecurity – “What if she’s cheating on me?” “I don’t trust her to have a girl’s night out!” Why would she cheat on you if you are satisfying her needs? The answer: she won’t. "
There should be an askerisk here. If your girl lives in New York City, and your personal bank account has less than six digits in it, she's definitely cheating on you every time she goes out, to much applause from her gal pals.
j_arbuckle2012 10y ago
Blah blah blah. Feel good bullshit with little practical advice on how to get out of the hole.
DingoManDingo 10y ago
Yeah I've heard it all before a million times. Makes sense this was written 4 years ago cause it's all trp common knowledge.
Gfresh404 10y ago
I mean it could have been summed up with a lot less words, but it raises a valid point; women are attracted to masculine men. And the easiest way to be masculine is to simply not act like a woman
TooTurnt 10y ago
Ding ding ding, more bullshit fluff.
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j_arbuckle2012 10y ago
The sidebar is a great introduction for someone who hasn't heard about TRP. This is extraneous waste.
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j_arbuckle2012 10y ago
"Push yourself to be better," is just as much bullshit as "you're great the way you are." When no actionable advice is given but you still feel zest and energy, then you know it's feel good bullshit.
There's no actionable advice in that post. None. It may seem like it but take a closer look, what is he actually saying you should do rather than not do?
He's basically telling guys to "man up." That is a recognized bluepill/feminist shaming tactic. It's bullshit. Plain and simple.
frequentlywrong 10y ago
No one is ever going to hand you a goddamn instruction manual on life. No one is going to tell you what the best course of action in your life is. All anyone can provide is a list of pitfalls and knowledge so you don't make uninformed decisions. Your pitfall is inaction.
thecajunone 10y ago
Damn dude. What more do you want? A fucking manual?
bicepsblastingstud 10y ago
I was with you until this. What?
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6TLaRm4g 10y ago
Sounds like me for last 2-3 years. What recently happened after accidentally finding this sub is it all made sense to what was happening to me, connected all dots. In addition to that it, similarly to this post, gave clear end goal of what needs to be doing. For me these things feel natural, although I couldn't express them even to myself before. Now from being depressed I came back to being genuinely positive, looking forward to things. Started meeting women. What I'd suggest is work on your other traits, and the whining thing will solve itself out once everything will be as it should.
We, men, have deep feeling that something is wrong with how we are behaving, and when there's no manly examples in our lives we are left with feminist viewpoint as only option, never to be exposed to anything other, and get depressed because it doesn't feel right, it doesn't work for us and is against what feels good. Your brain knows it, that's why you got depressed. The therapist will either write you some medications, which will not fix the root of problems, or will attempt a long and exhausting psychoanalytical treatment which will have partial to no success. I'd say don't go. You know what to do, do it and improve yourself, and you will be fine.
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Mintaka7 10y ago
someotherdudeagain 10y ago
In the modern world, we have a fucked up view of happiness. We believe that the sources of happiness are external - that it goes with achievement of some goal. Achievement of a goal will make you happy for about 72 hours. Then it's right back to the same grind you left.
Unhappiness is generally a sign of something being broken in your life. You are living in an unnatural way. It can be something as simple as not getting enough sleep to something as complex as hating your job and having no way out.
My suggestion to you is to focus on getting your life aligned with what nature needs and desires. Raise your testosterone levels by learning how to lift weights, eating red meat, getting plenty of sleep, getting sunlight every day (or taking a vitamin D supplement), avoiding fapping, avoiding alcohol, and avoiding sedentary pleasure traps (any addicting activity that involves sitting for an hour+). How's your social life? Invest some time in getting that in order. It's amazing how much better I feel when the foundational pieces of my life are in order as to when they are not, and it bleeds into everything else.
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scottyah 10y ago
Can't speak for you, but for me it was a call of the wild. Pit yourself against nature and see if god, luck, fate or chance wants you to live. I didn't tromp the alaskan wilderness but I fought the cold and found I do love life deep down. Challenge is better than success and hard work beats relaxation even though I can't tell it when I'm relaxing.
bicepsblastingstud 10y ago
Listen, if therapy is something you need to do to improve your well-being, then go do it.
Does having a discussion with a doctor about your problems so that you can fix them really sound like "whining" to you?
[deleted] 10y ago
Did you have an unhappy childhood?
someotherdudeagain 10y ago
If it works for you, then it works. I suggest going to a cognitive behavioral therapist, there is evidence that CBT isn't just bullshit, and it can work better than drugs for some psychiatric disorders.
Another part of getting your life in order is your social life, which is pretty freaking hard to get healthy in modern life. Do you have a healthy social life?
sensual_pineapple 10y ago
I was in your same boat, even going as far as to consider going on medication for it. Reading this book changed my entire perspective on why I was depressed. I thought that it was because I didn't have a girlfriend and I thought that nobody liked me. Definitely a difficult book to read, but after changing the way I think, lifting, and actually going out and doing things instead of being afraid to interact with people, I've found that I am simply not depressed any more. My depression was a symptom of acting like the "nice guy" described in that book. Going to a therapist may in fact help you, but I'd suggest doing some reading on the topic first. Definitely don't get on any medication, because that treats the symptoms not the root cause.
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HitlersCow 10y ago
It depends on the therapist. Blue pill thinking is pervasive.
I'd approach it with a large grain of salt. After all, it's your life - all they can do is try and influence it.
MrStinky 10y ago
Great read! Thanks
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HitlersCow 10y ago
Yes?
I don't have much respect for people who are that stuck up...You can't even take a little teasing?
If we just met, I don't respect you. That shit has to be earned. I'm talking real admirable respect, not common courtesy.
Yet, men do these things.
frequentlywrong 10y ago
What women say they want and what they actually need and respond to are completely different 90% of the time. So guess what, your opinion does not mean shit.
zenlike 10y ago
You should try smacking a guy on the ass some time. I think you might be surprised by the results.
DrinkyDrank 10y ago
So, my understanding from reading this article is that masculinity is defined by strong characteristics, i.e. high self-esteem, extroverted, highly motivated, etc.; and femininity is defined by weak characteristics, i.e. low self-esteem, emotional sensitivity, introverted, etc. My question to those who subscribe to this point of view: why do you desire females, other than for sex? Do you believe there are any positive, desireable aspects of femininity?
The author of the article talks about both genders striking a natural balance and helping each other out, yet mentions nothing of what exactly the feminine half contributes to the equation. In my mind, this sort of sets up a sexual hierarchy in which the "alphas" are the pinnacle of success, and climbing up the hierarchy means being as masculine as possible. This isn't balanced, it's completely imbalanced. It's a top-heavy system in which certain personal types are guaranteed failure. For example, I am a man but I am also a bit shy, I am emotionally sensitive, and I am not particularly motivated but I like to support others in their goals. Typical beta, right? But I like who I am! I don't want to have to become some macho hypermasculine douchebag just so I can date girls. Can't I just find a girl who displays alpha characteristics? I know they're out there, I've dated them before. What's wrong with that? I guess what I'm saying is that a little bit of androgyny should be considered a good thing, because it allows flexibility into the system such that balanced relationships can occur naturally.
bad_Clarence 10y ago
You have to consider the audience for which the article was written: men who believe attracting beautiful, feminine women is something to strive for. And for that audience, it's very good advice.
Your situation is different. You're not looking for the epitome of femininity, but for someone to take the "masculine" role in a relationship. It's fantastic that you're happy with who you are, and you definitely don't need to change so you can date girls. But if you wanted to date the kinds of girls that most people who read that article do, you would be better off following its advice.
attaxx 10y ago
desirable feminine traits are being empathic, nurturing, attention in details, manners, caring.
I think the article points out highly undesirable qualities in a man that actually don't matter so much in a woman, there are a lot of undesirable qualities in a woman that don't have much impact in masculinity if a man has them ( non-empathic, bad housekeeping).
heist_of_saint_graft 10y ago
There are a lot of guys who want to be submissive in relationships. Fine, but that is outside the purview of TRP.
DingoManDingo 10y ago
I think you're looking for a man.
DrinkyDrank 10y ago
I've entertained the thought, but I'm just not into penises.
someotherdudeagain 10y ago
Your ancestors prospered in a world where strict social gender roles and monogamy meant that most every decent man could find a wife. This was called civilization, and it allowed for betas to contribute towards society and be rewarded. Shaming of sluttery meant that people had few lifetime mates. This caused women to value long-term relationship characteristics in the men she dated. It wasn't necessary for you to be alpha to find a mate, if you were a "good man" there was a good woman looking for you.
Starting in the 1960s, we decided all of that wasn't fun, and that it was oppressive to women. We instituted no-fault divorce laws and made a social safety net to replace the role of men with government. In 1960, the average age of marriage for women in the USA was 20 years old. In 1980 it was 22. Now it is 27 and raising every year. Women aren't in any rush to settle down, they play a game of chicken with the wall in order to waste as little of their youth and attractiveness on a husband as they can get away with. Women now value pure attraction over stability and responsibility, until they get to their early 30s and start looking for a provider beta.
So all the beta sons of beta ancestors who built civilization have a choice - learn to be alpha, or settle for sexual leftovers. I'm also quite beta by nature and would have liked nothing better than to get married young to some nice woman and focus on my career instead of going to endless parties that I don't even enjoy to meet women. But that's not an option any more.
On the attractiveness of feminine qualities, I recommend Dalrock's post Feminists are ugly. The inverse of the qualities he discusses there are present in more traditional women and they are sublimely beautiful. Men and women complement each other - men by being more analytical and calculating, women by being warm and personable. Together, a man and a woman can form a team where the whole is greater than the parts.
DrinkyDrank 10y ago
Not sure how much I buy into this narrative. It seems like you're confusing an overall diversification of sexual practices with a unified social movement helmed by feminists. For me, more freedom means more choice, and more choice is better, even if people make shitty choices and the outcome isn't favorable to my "beta" category. And I think referring to women who prefer "betas" as "sexual leftovers" is a bit harsh, don't you think?
someotherdudeagain 10y ago
They prefer betas when they are 30+ and getting desperate. Seems an appropriate terminology.
Cyralea 10y ago
Right off the bat you're starting with preconceptions without realizing it.
You've assigned those values as being strong or weak. Note how innately you did that. This is because you're male. Emotional sensitivity and introversion aren't examples of being weak, they're examples of femininity. A male with those qualities would be perceived as being weak, because those are not qualities expected from a man. They're great qualities for a woman to have, because we're different and have different desires from a mate. A woman with masculine qualities is similarly off-putting (note how an aggressive woman is commonly referred to as being bitchy. It's not an attractive quality in a woman)
TRP espouses the idea that certain qualities are intrinsically masculine or feminine, but you'd be mistaken if you believed we think that amounts to us thinking male qualities are intrinsically superior.
That's because you've defined success by masculine success. Again, from a masculine-centric point of view this is forgivable. However, things like raising and protecting children, making your loved ones and close circle feel cared and attended to, maintaining organization, these are things you value less. They're still hallmarks of success, but they are feminine ones.
Too bad. It's not how the world works. That's akin to saying that you're happy to be lazy and sit at home playing video games all day, but you wonder why your career never advances. There's a system in place for success, you can choose not to play, but you can't expect any of its benefits. This also holds true for courtship, sexual relations are very much a marketplace. Getting fed up with the system doesn't lead you to success. Choosing to pretend it doesn't exist doesn't lead you to success.
Because eventually it'll end. Women, even aggressive "alpha" women, want a more dominant man. I've also dated such girls. They want an even more aggressive partner. That's how hypergamy works, they're always looking for someone of higher status. They're not attracted to meek, ineffectual men, even if they appear that way at first. They may be initially drawn to you for whatever reason, but their biology will eventually drive them to seek out someone else when they become dissatisfied with you.
TRP is the best place for introverts. You come to see how your passive qualities are really working against you. You don't need to become the crazy party-going frat boy, but you need to understand which introverted behaviours (eg fear of risk/rejection) always work against you.
DrinkyDrank 10y ago
I didn't assign anything, there is no way to interpret any of the above characteristics, taken directly from the article, as positive. If I was going to describe feminine characteristics myself, I would use adjectives similar to those you described. I was just commenting on their absence from the article that was posted.
The other problem I have is with the marketplace analogy, because like capitalism it relies on a bottom-line determinant of value, only for people instead of commodities. I don't know why, but this just seems spiritually wrong to me. People are complex, it seems narrow-minded to stick them on a single scale of value. I could play the game and try to find my highest point on that scale, but I feel like I would be selling my soul to the system if I did so. I know I won't find your definition of "success" by not playing the game, but maybe there's a different kind of success that's right for me out there. Maybe there's a girl out there that also feels like entering the "sexual marketplace" is selling out. Maybe it's naive to think someone else like that is out there, but I'll take my chances.
Cyralea 10y ago
The article is from a PUA source that hangs on flimsy feel-good bullshit. It's not what TRP largely espouses, look at other comments in this thread.
You're correct about this.
Economic markets are exceedingly complex, to the point that the best economists don't fully grasp it. But that doesn't mean that we can't determine a price/demand for any given commodity at a given moment in time.
I say this from a place of experience; you're only saying this because it's the easy way out. It's the comforting lie that you tell yourself so that you can continue taking the easier, lazy way. I'm telling you now, that's how you end up old and alone.
Success requires hard work. It's never been different in any aspect of life. Take your chances all you want, but recognize where you went wrong when you inevitably fail.
DrinkyDrank 10y ago
Is it easier though? I'm not so sure. I get lonely sometimes, but even when I do go out and make an effort to socialize, it all tends to feel shallow and meaningless. I feel like I never get to see what people actually are underneath the facade of strength and ego that they put up. (That goes for socializing with friends as well as flirting with women) Isn't it harder to stick with who you are as a person, even when that alienates you? Isn't it harder to understand people on more than a superficial level? Or maybe you can chalk all of this up to "over analyzing"? Maybe there's nothing deeper than the dichotomy of masculine and feminine characteristics? I don't know.
[deleted] 10y ago
I'm new here so it's possible many won't agree with this but I tend to see male and female like Yang and Yin. Complementary but also often at odds because they have different goals that require different talents to accomplish. I don't see maleness as better per se but it is different and it is better for men which is the point: Women want men who act like men and men want women who act like women.
I, like you, am an emotional dude. I lived my life putting women on a pedastal, being afraid of them, wanting to give them everything they wanted but saw them throw it away time and again. Emotional guys (let me guess, the ring finger and the index finger on your right hand are the same length?) have it harder because a lot of things that come naturally to other men don't come so easily to us and if we don't have a strong father who lays down the law and keeps us from lying/talking our way out of stuff, then it can be very hard for us to ever develop our own form of manliness.
I am convinced though the black jacks and david spades of the world have the ability to man up and be our own version of alpha. If we're willing to work at it. I completely changed my relationship with my wife and made us both much more happy by internalizing the principles of this sub. I believe that the red pill can be for all men, not just the jocks and bros.
[deleted] 10y ago
My index is about 2mm above my ring and I'm a dude. Fuck. Makes sense. Would it surprise any of you that I'm studying to become a nurse. Guess not. O and let's not forget before I came here to clocked myself on the head I was pretty damn beta. I have anxiety, have since I was a teenager, only just realized in the past year or so. And to be honest, with all this said and looking up the Digit ratio. I just feel like accepting it now. I can say the one thing RedPill has given me so far, which I am thankful for is the realization about how women think and a good reminder why having one in my life is not of a priority. But when it comes to being "alpha", I can try but in all honesty I'm fighting a losing battle.
[deleted] 10y ago
You are a rare bird my friend, a caregiver male. You don't have to BE an alpha but you can be more alpha than you are. Number one is to reign in talking about your feelings with any woman you're interested in, which I know from experience is hard because I could not shut up about my feelings. Share the good feelings, even share Anger (I've seen chicks get turned on by male angst/anger so many times it can't be a fluke), but save the sad ones for your male buds, your mom or a woman you aren't interested in.
What you probably do have going for you though is the ability to be funny/charming/good with words. Remember, men with even digit ratios wouldn't exist if our ancestors hadn't been able to get laid. One thing I noticed when I first started learning about 'Game' is that the Agree and Amplify response was something that I had naturally been doing since I was a kid. (Example: She asks: Do I look fat? You say: Hell yes! I can feel your gravitational pull, did you eat a small moon?) It's a great way to pass the female shit-test and you're probably already pretty good at it.
[deleted] 10y ago
Ah man, that was a feel good read! Thanks. Funny thing is, I agree with the amplifying response thing, and to make it even worse or in other words more hilarious. I have a terribly dirty mind and it ain't shy to show itself.... a lot. Completely agree with the sharing to deeply with female friends. They love me for it but ultimately it doesn't help with any sexual strategy.
Edit: Just want to add after thinking about it, you're right about have a natural knack for passing the shit tests, I can be funny rude to women without feeling bad, if that makes sense. It works of course, I can get women really into me for a decent amount of time but at the end of the day it always results in them withdrawing. I guess this is where my problem lies, being to open once I feel more comfortable around them. Been an enlightening night, awesome stuff.
[deleted] 10y ago
Glad to help man.
DrinkyDrank 10y ago
What's the deal with the fingers? You're right btw.
IllimitableMan 10y ago
Lol I just checked, my left hand has a very slightly longer index finger and my right hand a very slightly longer ring finger. So I don't actually have a dominant trait either way, I have 1 longer than the other on each hand. Does this mean I'm a perfect balance or what? Not sure how much stock I'd put into this theory.
[deleted] 10y ago
The ring finger is highly influenced by Testosterone in the womb. Look up Digit Ratio. Essentially it's a leftover physical trait that shows whether your basal brain formation occurred in a more feminine or masculine hormone environment. So most men have longer ring fingers and most women have even or a longer index finger. Some dudes are born with the female ration and surprise surprise we have better literacy than other guys, typically we're more in touch with our emotions, we like the arts more. It's not that we ARE women, it's more that we're a blend. It comes with some awesome strengths but also some weakness, especially when it comes to being manly, which we often completely eschew because it's "Just for those dumb jocks". The problem is, women say they love nice guys like us, but they just use us like emotional kleenex. If we take on some more manly characteristics... be a little aloof, be more focused on our own stuff than spending all our time trying to perfect our relationship with them.. then we can hugely change our prospects with the ladies. I WISH I had know this back in College.
DingoManDingo 10y ago
That's amazing, so you can tell who's a pussy by their hands.
For the record, I have a long ass ring finger, or I wouldn't be getting manliness advice from reddit.
[deleted] 10y ago
It works both ways. There are dudes with femme ratio and ladies with male ratio, not all of whom are manjawed mega feminists, but enough are that I figure it's worth checking. Also, us emotional dudes most definitely are often whiny, rationalizing, pussies, it's kind of our default setting, but we can man up it's just hard as hell.
taperman28 10y ago
Very good article your right this could be very life changing