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- Hide Preview | 114 Comments | submitted 2 years ago by ItalianLawyer [Post Locked]

So my fiance is one of the most submissive girls I've been with, which is why I felt OK proposing to her. She has all green flags (Low n-count, good family, religious, cooks for me, never withholds sex, etc), or did until this past weekend.

After she got home last night, we were in bed together when she got a text from a random number. She had previously mentioned that there was a group of Australians on a bachelor party that the group had seen. When I saw the text, I quickly saw it said "mate."

I asked her point blank if she gave out her number to any guys. She said yes and then I took the phone and read the texts. She said she gave out her number to this guy who sat down with all of them at dinner so they could get them into a club or pay for their drinks. The thread started at 2 AM with him saying that the club he was at was better, meaning she had deleted an earlier message with her telling him where she was. She then said she was back at her hotel, and then sent a wince face selfie. She didn't respond to any more of his messages, until the morning, when she said she hoped he had a good night. He then said to hit him up if she's ever in New York, which is the text I saw. I checked her phone log for calls and didn't see any. She said the guy was short and she felt sorry for him.

She also gave her number out to two other promoters, which she only responded to about getting her group into clubs.

I know everyone will probably say I should next her, but she is begging me not to, asking for forgiveness, admitting she was wrong, promising to never do it again, etc. She said her intentions were only to get her and her friends free drinks or club access, and that she was never alone or isolated with any guy. She offered to let me call her friends and verify she was never alone. Perhaps she really was just using this guy for free booze.

Or am I delusional? Is there any other answer besides calling off this engagement?

EDIT: She said she deleted the text when she got into the club and realized she didn't need this guy. She has offered to download an app that can recover deleted messages so I could see.

[-] [deleted] 166 Points 2 years ago

Deleted texts & gave out her number three times (and these are the things that you know of), this isn't fiance material. This is plate material.

[-] jb_trp 43 Points 2 years ago

Yup. With all the access any man has to just about any chick (snapchat, texting, IG, etc.), if a woman can't set good boundaries with men, she's not even LTR material. Giving out your number to strange dudes is not GF material.

[-] refusewool 25 Points 2 years ago

Is any girl fiancé material? The answer is no.

[-] aDrunkenWhaler 13 Points 2 years ago

Ding Ding Ding... we have a winner.

[-] MuhTriggersGuise 4 Points 2 years ago

You're saying that because by definition, a fiancé is male, right?

[-] [deleted] 0 Points 2 years ago

They exist. It's probably <1% of the female population, though.

[-] thefisherman1961 12 Points 2 years ago

You're thinking of GF material. No woman is worth marrying.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

Touche Touche

[-] MuhTriggersGuise 1 Point 2 years ago

Ah yes, the elusive unicorn that proves NAWALT /s

[-] [deleted] 18 Points 2 years ago

Verifying a relationship ending situation isn't "mate guarding" maybe op set boundaries in the beginning that said if you give your number out to anyone other then workmates I'm ending it. I'd do the same thing if she knew the rules from the getgo to verify the situation. More like mate disposing lmfao.

[-] [deleted] 3 Points 2 years ago

Ya it’s common sense. She knew what she was doing.

[-] PurpleDrank88 3 Points 2 years ago

To be fair, I wouldn't say the promoters are an issue if she was just setting up the club deal. That's how it works. You out in your reservation request and you and the promoter set up the deal via text. Not a big deal. Obviously, promoters do fuck girls they bring to the club, but they also text to set up bottle deals with tons of girls they don't fuck.

The Australian guy though, that's another matter.

[-] McVaghunter 101 Points 2 years ago

Come on man, come on! Don't do this to yourself, you already know how this marriage is gonna end.

Of course she's begging now, she's asking for forgiveness because you didn't sign the contract yet, once you do she ain't gonna ask for shit, she'll tell you it is what it is and if you don't like her sucking dick when you're at work providing then she'll ruin your life with a divorce.

But do as you like, sometimes a Man needs to hit rock bottom to learn his lesson.

[-] ioncehadsexinapool 23 Points 2 years ago

Just keep postponing the wedding lol

[-] krefnasterploc 14 Points 2 years ago

My first thought lol ????

[-] [deleted] 95 Points 2 years ago

Steal the ring back while she is asleep and ghost

[-] VasiliyZaitzev 73 Points 2 years ago

which is why I felt OK proposing to her.

So you were going to use TRP to pursue your blue pill dreams?

She said the guy was short and she felt sorry for him.

This is hamster bullshit. She liked his Aussie accent or some other shit. If girls gave out numbers to guys they "felt sorry for" then there's be a lot of gorks getting numbers.

promising to never do it again

Of course she won't.

She said her intentions were only to get her and her friends free drinks or club access, and that she was never alone or isolated with any guy.

So the Aussie guy was a promoter? Or was he just some guy she gave her number to because she "felt sorry" for him?

She offered to let me call her friends and verify she was never alone.

Please. Like her friends won't lie for her. And they'd start telling her what a controlling jerk you are. Her friends' backing her up is completely useless to you.

Perhaps she really was just using this guy for free booze.

Greaaaat.

Or am I delusional?

Do you think she was a Special Unicorn? Because that's how you tell if you're delusional.

Is there any other answer besides calling off this engagement?

You could delay the date (assuming shit isn't already set). Or Dread the Fuck out of her by telling her you have to think shit over. Of course, she will blab to her her friends and they will say "CONTROLLING JERK!! COME PARTY WITH US! FUCK FOREIGN SHORT GUYS THAT YOU FEEL SORRY FOR!"

So here is something to think about: if you get married, what is your policy going to be on "Girls Nights Out"? Because she will come to you and whine and beg about "how nothing will happen", etc.

[-] Love8Death 3 Points 2 years ago

Yup...

Zero way to know a woman is faithful.

[-] moorekom 56 Points 2 years ago

//She said the guy was short and she felt sorry for him.//

I don't believe this for a second. This goes against the very nature of girls. If you don't want to deal with her, dump her. If you still want to fuck her, back to square one she goes. She is now only good for fucking. Anything else, she needs to earn it back by hard work. And even then, never let her go above gf status. She just proved to you she can't be trusted with anything more.

[-] Westernhagen 20 Points 2 years ago

She should at least come up with a less insultingly stupid, low-effort lie!

[-] moorekom 21 Points 2 years ago

Ha ha... I don't think she should at all. It is easy to identify and deal with stupidity like this than to find yourself in the webs of a professional manipulator. When your enemy makes a mistake, don't correct them to validate your ego. Let them do it and use it to your advantage. OP should be glad this happened. Now he gets to fuck other girls with impunity due to her stupidity and she has to work to get back her position.

[-] devilslittlehelper 11 Points 2 years ago

When your enemy does a mistake, don't correct them to validate your ego. Let them do it and use it to your advantage.

Excellent point.

[-] moorekom 2 Points 2 years ago

Thank you.

[-] Westernhagen 5 Points 2 years ago

she has to work to get back her position.

The only position she deserves to get back is "girl on the end of Australian Chad's dick" -- and that shouldn't be too much work, unless he already flew back to Oz.

[-] thefisherman1961 3 Points 2 years ago

she has to work to get back her position.

Wrong. Once a girl has been demoted, she should never be promoted again. Especially not if she's being demoted two levels at once (Fiancee to plate)

[-] MuhTriggersGuise 1 Point 2 years ago

You said it. Not only is she not wife material, she isn't even girlfriend material.

[-] thefisherman1961 1 Point 2 years ago

Yeah if she said that to me, that would have probably caused me to end the conversation and demote her to plate status on the spot.

[-] MuhTriggersGuise 1 Point 2 years ago

Just think of a pathetic short guy. Now think of how many numbers he gets a night from attractive women who aren't engaged. Now think of how many of them he carries on a text conversation with, including things that she deletes worried that her fiance will see.

Now that we've established there's no way he was pathetic to her, and she's just saying that to placate her fiance, we can start to consider what was really going on.

[-] LiftOrGTF0 51 Points 2 years ago

I know everyone will probably say I should next her, but she is begging me not to, asking for forgiveness, admitting she was wrong, promising to never do it again, etc. She said her intentions were only to get her and her friends free drinks or club access, and that she was never alone or isolated with any guy. She offered to let me call her friends and verify she was never alone.

Of course she "regrets" it now since she got caught. I guess you could see all the regret in her face and attitude before you found out, huh? She's so close to be financally safe once she gets the ring on her finger and knows that this might be THE deal breaker for her. But since I can imagine what a little bitchboy you are, go ahead, marry her and have fun while it lasts before you get crushed like an ant.

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[-] hawkeaglejesus 1 Point 2 years ago

The only thing she learned was needing to hide her tracks better.

[-] BestSC86 50 Points 2 years ago

"Perhaps she really was just using this guy for free booze"

Your fiance virgin unicorn knows the game pretty fucking well for all those supposed green flags you listed.

I suspect that a former CC riding club slut found her a gullible betabux to finally settle down with.....

Just so yeah know......true fiance material would NOT try to use other dudes for drinks and free club shit. They intentionally do not do such shit so as to not put themselves in awkward situations with random dudes that would keep texting her and she would have to reject because of her true love finding out. Your girl was handing out her number to any guy who came within pecker distance to her pussy and frankly didn't give a shit that you might find out later.

She was grinding and showing that ass and tits to at least one of those short Australian dudes (6-4 ripped more likely), if she wasn't making out and fucking his brains out which is a possibility.

Dudes don't ask girls that they just talked to at clubs and shit to "hang out when they come to NY" unless she was giving that dude the full "I might wanna be your slut for the night if you play your cards right" treatment. Tits all over him, grinding that ass, coying smiles, giggling, kissing, blah, blah, blah...everything she did to get your attention and attraction was what she was doing with this "short" Australian Chad.

Think with your mind...what would a chick have to do with you or how would she have to act for you be asking her to meetup when she was in your town few months later and still constantly texting her repeatedly the next day? This Australian dude is pretty certain that your GF's pussy was offered and is on the table for the very next time that she is in his vicinity. She was having the time of her life with this "short" Australian dude.

[-] asktrpthrowaway91 15 Points 2 years ago

Brutal honesty right here. Take note OP.

[-] recursoinominado 8 Points 2 years ago

This is the best answer.

[-] Docbear64 39 Points 2 years ago

She's already starting to peak / flirt outside of the relationship and you're not even married. You would feel better splitting up after you've signed the contract and had a large ceremony telling your friends and family you two will love each other forever and ever?

It's your life but I would hope ( and maybe I'm naive) that in the engagement period your girl would be so crazy about you she would shut shit like this down ASAP . It's just stupid and irresponsible. Think about it chances are your relationship will never be as strong and filled with positive possibility as it is right now, if things get worse will her intentions get worse as well ?

Good luck .

[-] BlueAdmir 1 Point 2 years ago

Peek, not peak.

[-] Docbear64 1 Point 2 years ago

whatever you know what I meant

[-] RPStone 36 Points 2 years ago

Is this the same 25 year old girl you posted about a year ago for snapchating other guys?

You never learned did you.

[-] HappyMexican 13 Points 2 years ago

hahaha shit TRP has a long memory.

[-] ItalianLawyer -7 Point 2 years ago

In all fairness, that dude turned out to be a homo

[-] [deleted] 23 Points 2 years ago

Duuuuuude

[-] krefnasterploc 10 Points 2 years ago

Hoooomo

[-] lordkrink 19 Points 2 years ago

Oooh boi

[-] [deleted] 11 Points 2 years ago

Hopeless, just make her a baby and cuck yourself. And give us her snap bro.

[-] GreenPiller 9 Points 2 years ago

HAHAHAHA

[-] ReddingtonsShitList 3 Points 2 years ago

Are you an idiot? I'm engaged too and it would have been a hard fucking next if she was snapping another dude. Homo or not.

You have that situation and now you have this shit. She is playing you and using you as her meal ticket.

If she is doing this shit repeatedly now imagine when you two are married?

Edit: I read your last post and holy fucking shit. Next her! Open your eyes!!!

[-] MentORPHEUS 32 Points 2 years ago

This is exactly why TRP is wary of "girls night out." Too much opportunity for things to "just happen" with guys there.

Specifically because this was a special event and not a routine GNO, my minority opinion is that you've set a strong precedent about unacceptable behavior; a shot across her bow so to speak. Now, let it go, but watch what she does.

If she takes this boundary seriously, and refuses to put herself in this type of situation (GNO), much less ever give her number to random guys, then this is an example of successful leadership on your part.

OTOH, if she keeps trying to push this boundary, or worse mocks or otherwise disrespects this rule of yours (later when she's feeling secure again) THEN you can call things off decisively.

This is the "but verify" phase of Trust, but Verify.

[-] falecf4 3 Points 2 years ago

My friend pretty much uses "Trust, but verify" as his life mantra. Most people just trust what is told to them without much, if any, further investigation.

[-] [deleted] 20 Points 2 years ago

Admitting she is wrong is respectable but she knew what she was doing was wrong when she did it and she did it multiple times. She knows what the other guy wants she gave him her number anyway. And why is your girl going to clubs? Clubs are for single people or women in relationships who aren't worthy of relationships. Most cheating happens in the workplace or on girls nights. Your fiance is trash you aren't delusional. Have some self respect. I got married yesterday my girl has never given her number out to noon work related dudes. Never done a girls night even when she's invited and refused to have a hen night out of respect for me. Maybe shell do dumb shit down the road who knows all I know is awalt and o have enough self respect to dump that bitch if she does

[-] Westernhagen 10 Points 2 years ago

Well damn I can fake an Australian accent pretty convincingly, because I used to live there, and I'm tall, so now I have an excellent formula for banging easily impressed low n-count submissive girls. Australian Chad Game FTW!

[-] brootzkrieg 21 Points 2 years ago

Friend of mine has a story where he woke up from a blackout drunk with a girl in bed next to him. He says good morning to her and she starts crying, gets dressed, and leaves. He shows her out and asks his roommates what had happened. They say, "oh you were Australian last night."

[-] Poptart318 3 Points 2 years ago

Lol this is funny

[-] imn0tg00d 10 Points 2 years ago

Ok guys, dont gang up on me, but the text log doesn't necessarily show that she deleted any messages. OP isn't accounting for any conversation had in person. She could have told him what club they were going to when they split ways.

This is honestly nothing to worry about dude. Bachelorette parties are just a bunch of girls out flirting, but 90% of the time the other girls will cockblock each other. They are all just out seeking as much attention as possible, it's the whole point of the party.

Trust me, i live in an area where there are tons of bachelorette parties and I avoid them and any girls in them. Also, girls go weak kneed for a guy with an accent.

In the end im saying that i dont think she deserves a next, but getting married is fucking stupid. Why do people who are on this sub get married?

[-] askmrcia 7 Points 2 years ago

I honestly thought I was the only crazy one here.

I don't think this is NEXT material. If this is the only time it happened with no other issues going on, I don't think I'll next here for this.

Like you said, are we sure she deleted the texts? They could have just continued a conversation from when they saw each other that night.

Why do people who are on this sub get married?

Because they use this sub to make them be better men, and once they become better men, they believe women will want to marry them. I believe most users on here are like this. This is why we keep getting constant LTR posts/comments.

Most people here never had a LTR. They don't care too much for plates and casual relationships. Most users here want a LTR and get married so they can impress mommy and daddy and all their friends and fill out their blue pill dreams.

[-] _the_shape_ 10 Points 2 years ago

Or am I delusional? Is there any other answer besides calling off this engagement?

  • You can invest loads of money on a private investigator who reports to you with a daily report of her whereabouts

  • You can also tie her up and never allow her to leave the basement.

  • You can also rig your house with cameras, her car with audio recording devices.

  • You can ask her to report to you every 15 minutes when she's not with you (or confirm with the private investigator; see first option)

See? So many wonderful "answers" besides calling off the engagement! And, she will love you all the more for going in any of these directions.

I guess you can call off the engagement, but you've made it this far, and what, are you going to be the weird, pathetic bachelor who called off his wedding at the last minute? Don't be one of those misogynistic red pill dicks and wife her up!

[-] EseVato2017 8 Points 2 years ago

Any other answer? No!

[-] throwitdownman 8 Points 2 years ago

I’ve had a plate like this once and please take my advice - not worth it. Same traits - she is submissive, religious, and all you detailed. I can see her in your fiancé.

You will soon find out she is a habitual liar. Girls like these are disconnected with reality and is unable to comprehend boundaries.

[-] BusterVadge 8 Points 2 years ago

All of these "special unicorn" posts start out by trying to win the reader over to her "unicorn-ness". Re-read your post and imagine that someone else wrote it. Dude, you know exactly what you have to do when you take emotion out of it.

If and when my LTR gets caught doing this, it will be over. Because for every time you find out there is 20 more times that you didn't.

I'm sorry about your fiancee. It's hard to find quality people who won't do things behind your back.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

Fuck..

"For every time you find out, there's 10 you didn't"

Fuck that's some shit. Thank you

[-] blackedoutfast 7 Points 2 years ago

in my experience, women are most likely to cheat on their boyfriends in the period of time between the proposal and the wedding.

proposing to a woman is the most beta act possible. you literally kneel before her and ask if she will let you promise to never leave her. then you give her a piece of jewelry. so an engaged woman feels secure about the BB part of her sexual strategy, but has a lot of anxiety about not being able to get the AF part in the future. even women who didn't slut it up in the past have always had that option available to them, and the lower n-count (but not virgin) engaged women seem to be worst about cheating on their fiance. during that engagement window before the marriage, her subconscious is going nuts telling her to get as much alpha dick as possible before it's too late.

[-] DubbleFUPAwitCheez 6 Points 2 years ago

Marriage for a man in the US is nothing short of going out on a limb. If she doesn't understand that and make sure you have no reason to doubt her then maybe you need to reconsider.

The only girl I ever thought about marrying knew damn well my views on it. Though she was religious she never pressured me because of that.

[-] Nergaal 5 Points 2 years ago

She said the guy was short and she felt sorry for him.

This has the potential to be the biggest red flag to me. In my past bad experiences, a girl tries to be overly dismissive of threats (guy is short, he has a tiny penis, etc) to make you not feel threatened. But there is a reason she is doing that. IMO if she knew she did nothing wrong, there would be no reason to exacerbate how unthreatening this guy is.

Don't necessarily dump her. Withdraw and downgrade to a plate. Chances are if she did this thinking she wouldn't get caught, who knows what she did and didn't get caught with.

Here is a test you can give her: ask her the exact number of messages she deleted from this guy; then tell her to show you her phone bill; there you get to see the exact number of times she got messages from that specific number. But that might be you proving extreme case of mate guarding, which will dry up her panties. Yet it would be an indisputable proof of how honest her word is.

Do you even have proof for stuff like her low n-count, or you just took up her words?

[-] YouLoveThisBTW 5 Points 2 years ago

I agree with your first paragraph completely. Seriously, OP don't overlook this insight.

[-] banica24 2 Points 2 years ago

Isn't he the most beta if he starts interrogating her? She'll start rambling how he is jealous / insecure and drop more lies. He should just drop it or drop her

[-] tenXten 4 Points 2 years ago

Sorry to hear that you're going through this. I just went through something very, very similar. I came to this subreddit and got most of the same advice: "next her ass", "not worth the time", etc...

I gave her, "it" another try and guess what? It ended up horribly. My girl was very "innocent" and "freaky-ish" too and when I gave her another chance, it back-fired in my hometown of all places. And in our departing...she told me ALL of the things and ways she TRULY felt about me: name calling, sex-related, etc.

I didn't propose, but still, her application was in! It was my fault that I ignored all of the red flags. So, while she was out of town on business, I packed my shit up and moved out. Best decision of my new TRP life.

And yes, WE don't know your girl. and yes, WE don't know your relationship. You'll miss her. You'll miss the pussy and blowjobs. You'll be angry that you put in so much time into reviewing her application, even offering her a position--plus benefits--with ItalianLawyer & Co.. But I would like to offer you this one perspective: If this situation was YOU texting a woman...multiple times...while in bed with her. Would she truly forgive you? Or would she neatly package up your balls and put it on the shelf...only to dust them off occasionally all while branding you with a scarlet letter.

... I wish you the best.

Re-read the sidebar for your next steps.

[-] quicklogaccount 4 Points 2 years ago

You should be aware of your country's marriage laws. Around here it's pretty easy to untangle lives if you don't have children, that's not true everywhere.

Personal opinion here. If a chick is so good I decided she's marriage material I'd hardly bother with texts.
I say this shit here a lot, cheaters don't hide shit, they tell you and tell you to pretend it is ok or to pretend you don't know. And you can't be cheat-o-phobic, as long as you retain your capacity to leave or act in whatever fashion you deem necessary, you're cool.

Now, your situation isn't the same as mine. Your relationship strikes as imbalanced, and you as naive.

  • A chick that takes the lead in gaming guys for free drinks, VIP access and the alike isn't an inexperienced chick, and it seems you believe you're committed to one. You're not. Experienced women can make good partners but they're way harder to handle and their primary sexual strategy is antagonistic to her committed parter's, which makes them terribly hard to handle and fairly red flag-ish.
  • I don't give a lot of shits to texting either way. If you'll get obsessed and worried about that, end the engagement. Some shit that's pretty harmless to most folks are deal breakers for me, each with his own issues.

Honestly, looking at how you put the whole thing, I honestly believe you can take two roads.
To end things because trust is broken and unless you have children or a few years worth of money in a place together, it's never worth to repair it (by the way, even if it is worth it, some people just can't repair it). I'd take this road if I were you. You seem to have severely misjudged your partner and this is a bit you can't fix.
If your trust isn't broken, think of a price tag for her fuck up that will make it up for you. It's not "calling her friends", the fuck up is done and it's pointless to look into undoing it, she has to make it up for it (and if you're smart, for the extra hassle you just learned she'll be).

[-] TeachMeTheWaysOfRP 4 Points 2 years ago

“She offered to let me call her friends and verify she was never alone.”

&nbsp;

LOL

&nbsp;

Holy fuck. I’ll let you call my boys and they’ll tell you I’m the second coming of Jesus Christ himself!

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

Lol fucking A

[-] MattyAnon 3 Points 2 years ago

which is why I felt OK proposing to her.

Do Not Marry

If you do, you're doing this to yourself. It's a dumb idea. Don't do it.

The thread started at 2 AM with him saying that the club he was at was better, meaning she had deleted an earlier message with her telling him where she was. She then said she was back at her hotel, and then sent a wince face selfie. She didn't respond to any more of his messages, until the morning,

How do you know? She could have deleted hers. Like she did with the earlier one.

She said the guy was short and she felt sorry for him.

Women are incapable of compassion towards men, so you know this is a lie. Women lie most of all about their own motives. "I felt sorry for him" is a lie, and you know it.

I know everyone will probably say I should next her, but she is begging me not to, asking for forgiveness, admitting she was wrong, promising to never do it again, etc

Because she got caught.

This woman is not wife material. She's not even gf material.

You want to believe she's a unicorn. Here's a clue: no horn, no unicorn.

She has offered to download an app that can recover deleted messages so I could see.

Agree to this.... but do it all in front of you. It might well be a bluff, and I don't know how well this app can work.

[-] GreenPiller 3 Points 2 years ago

There are people here who read the sidebar and still get married?

[-] mrpCamper 6 Points 2 years ago

I know right? My excuse is that I was married for 15 years before I discovered any of it. To have this knowledge beforehand AND a fiance with this behavior and still question going forward with it? tisk tisk.

[-] failberry 3 Points 2 years ago

You are going to think of this for all your life and you will hate your life. Chop the limb off now.

[-] dr_warlock 3 Points 2 years ago

Considering marriage was your first problem.

[-] mindplaybyneo 3 Points 2 years ago

This is gona hurt really bad

[-] [deleted] 3 Points 2 years ago

If you have to ask, you shouldn't do it.

[-] vicious_armbar 3 Points 2 years ago

Why would you risk being divorce raped by getting married at all?! List one thing that you need to be married to do; that you can't do while cohabitating.

[-] Rudeyyyy 3 Points 2 years ago

She's sad that she got caught. Nothing new. Next

[-] ReddJive 3 Points 2 years ago

I've never liked the trust but verify mantra. To me it's putting me into the frame of someone else. Alludes to the fact that I am afraid of being cucked, or cheated on.

I am not. As a RP man I know it could happen, but it would be my fault for letting my foot off the gas. So why be angry at a fish for swimming?

Trust is a weapon. It's also unprovable and cannot be earned. Earning trust is a myth. You can't earn it. It's given. You give trust until you determine you can no longer give it. Then it is irreparable. Ever notice when someone says you have to earn my trust again and suddenly you are a hamster on a wheel? You are constantly working towards some secret checklist that you will never know the details of and never truly met all the demands. It can go years and years, but your dedication in completing this magical checklist will result in...what exactly?

Trust is a weapon. It's the carrot dangled in front of you to control you (or others).

I prefer loyalty. So where trust is something I give. Loyalty is what others give me. It can be demonstrated. It is action. Sure you can say you trust your submissive girl. Your beautiful damn near unicorn. You can trust her to go out and be with her friends. But how far do you trust? Do you let her go right to the line? No problem she was talking with dudes. It was just talk. They were betas any way. She came home to you. What's the issue? Don't you trust her? How far exactly do you trust? Do you trust her to go right up to that line?

Now loyalty? Loyalty is where she doesn't. She doesn't get that far. She knows the boundaries and doesn't cross them, not even near them because she knows what happens. She knows that slippery slope. RP says women know, they just choose to follow their emotions. OK. Then it follows that they know where that line is. They know how to demonstrate loyalty. Allowing that each man has a different threshold here, she knows and won't go that far. She also demonstrates loyalty. She shows you. She knows how to remove an orbiter.

Sure she can do all the things to show you that she can be trusted which only means she has figured out other ways to go underground OR she will wait for another moment. BUT has she demonstrated loyalty to you? She may have been making contacts to get free stuff. I don't know only you do. Women manipulate. They do. Why do you care if a beta was thinking there was more at the other end? Only you know if she has demonstrated loyalty.

Most would say women are incapable of loyalty. I disagree. They are. They just need to be shown what it is. The boundaries and the consequences of being removed from your presence. You are the prize here.

[-] [deleted] 2 Points 2 years ago

She gave out her number to at least three different guys, and she's deleting texts and all of this other mess.

Or am I delusional? Is there any other answer besides calling off this engagement?

Yes, you are delusional. She's saying all of the right things to keep you on the hook because she got caught.

No, there is no other answer besides calling off the engagement. She lost her ability to be fiancee or marriage material with this.

[-] banica24 1 Point 2 years ago

Shit happens, at least she talked about it and wasn't sketchy trying to hide it. Do you expect OP to date a nun who doesn't leave the apartment or speak to anyone?

[-] HappyMexican 2 Points 2 years ago

Hmm... Tricky. I would say if she is letting you look at everything and anything you want to look at (Email, IMs, and such), then your probably ok to keep the relationship going. As much as TRP loves to say "Next her", to everything, in this case you should show some more patience.

It is good that you are willing to walk away though, there in lies your red pill power. I would say become a bit stalkerish and keep tight tabs on her. Keep checking her texts, emails, and IMs. If she does not like it, you can next her then.

I was in a similar situation and just gave her a second chance, then did not watch her that closely (Blue pill thinking). That backfired bad, so keep tight tabs on her. Maybe set up text forwarding (as anal as that sounds). If shes submissive she probably go for it.

Bad as it sounds with submissive girls, you gotta watch them like children. They will still cheat easily because they give in to peer pressure. All it takes for them to be depressed, drunk and around the wrong person. I am dating a submissive girl too right now, and keeping much firmer tabs on her. I read her texts, and IMs (She gives me permission of course), and so far things are good.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

Horrible advice. Life is too short for that

[-] HappyMexican 1 Point 2 years ago

Maybe, but I am a firm believer in LTRs are necessary. TRP big argument is that gender roles are biological and traditional, and feminism hopes to wreck that but will never succeed. Women are programmed to always act a certain way and have for centuries.

Marriage has been around for thousands of years as well, men with power still often marry. So LTR management is still a important way to live. If you believe in classic gender roles, this is something that shouldn't just be ignored. Can't just NEXT every chick forever. To most guys that would get kind depressing.

The world is too complex to do everything alone.

[-] TheRedPillMonkey 2 Points 2 years ago

.... But she didn't delete all the texts from him. She wanted you to find out. It's a big shit test.

Ignore the promoters for a second because they aren't a threat. She wanted you to find out about this Aussie guy. She wanted you to know she got hit on. She wanted you to know she has options. It's also only an option because she would pursue it if you weren't around, so yes, she got moist off this Aussie. If she really wanted to hide it she would have deleted all the texts and you would have never known.

So how do you respond to this shit test? If we nexted every chick who shit tested us, we'd all be virgins. So that's just dumb. What you need to do is make her realize you also have options in a way that makes you pass the shit test and puts dread in her mind.

Because you already discussed it, I'd go back and say something like you're not concerned and were being hypocritical, because if she got as upset as your getting, over the girls you met at your bachelor party, you wouldn't like it..... Or something to that affect. Essentially make her realize "me too" which both dismisses her shit test, and adds dread that while she was trying to say she has options, you do too. Girls really get dread when their man has options. She was hoping to get that rise out of you, which she seemed to have accomplished.

[-] neveragoodtime 2 Points 2 years ago

If she's been fully cooperative with your questions, instead of getting diffusive and gas lighting you, it's not a complete loss. You let her go on this bachelorette party, so take some of the responsibility that she may have had to communicate with guys. If you completely bitch out with jealously, you're not even going to have a plate anymore. You've got to trust but verify, especially if you're trusting her enough to propose. If she lets you verify, there might be nothing there. Girls with something to hide act pretty differently than how you describe your girl.

[-] strangekitten 1 Point 2 years ago

Wtf is with the hesitation? That is hoe behavior. Flip the script, would you ask some girl to come thru who you don’t have a hellz chance to make your cum bucket? Common now. Fucking chode....

[-] krefnasterploc 1 Point 2 years ago

The fact that she was STILL texting with him when she got home and didn’t come out herself first and admit it and call off the dogs herself like any respectable person??

HUGE ASS RED FLAG

BE CAREFUL

Suggestion: Postpone wedding at least 6 months for this

I mean bare minimum

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

She gave you conflicting excuses. She said she gave the guy her number cause he was short and she felt bad, then she said she just wanted to get club access/free drinks.

If she is pulling this kind of shit now, imagine how emboldened she will be once you sign that dotted line and give her all the leverage in the relationship.

It sucks but you have one very clear course of action...

[-] Big_Daddy_PDX 1 Point 2 years ago

The only reason you’re asking here is because you already know the answer but you’re too much of a pussy to follow through with what you know you need to do.
I’d immediately put the brakes on marriage plans and rigorously re-evaluate your life choices.

[-] dontgiveupcarib 1 Point 2 years ago

Lol dude next this girl, trust me you're making a huge mistake if you marry her which will end in a bitter ugly divorce that will ruin your life.

Why are you even getting married?

[-] AlphaGrad 1 Point 2 years ago

Call it off. Get the ring back first. ASAP!

[-] nummas 1 Point 2 years ago

Good guess about knowing everyone will tell you to next her. OP hasn't replied to any of the comments, I'm wondering if he knows what's waiting here and doesn't want to read the truth. I'm guessing he will be a bitch and forgive her and let the marriage go on. Because, you know, she promised never to do it again.

[-] tyler1009 1 Point 2 years ago

I’m sorry man. I read a lot of these and honestly I’m usually on the fence about what to do. But those texts are plain as day to me that she wanted to fuck him or possibly did. If she didn’t, she was opening all the doors for it to happen.

[-] nofilmynofucky 1 Point 2 years ago

You've clearly got a decent knowledge of trp: the reason you're asking us is because you already know the answer and don't want to pull that trigger

Dude. Come on. You know what's up.

[-] SovereignSoul76 1 Point 2 years ago
  1. How would she respond if you went on your stag party and came back, receiving friendly texts from a chick saying "Reach out if you're ever in my city!"? She would LOSE. HER. SHIT.

  2. The whole thing about "feeling bad for him bc he's short"....yeah that is a HUGE fucking red flag. As someone else noted: women don't feel empathy for men. ESPECIALLY not over height. This is her hamster, in action, convincing her that she didn't find him attractive.

  3. Why would she even need his number? Were there no single women at this party? Shouldn't one of them be the one taking digits, not the fucking bride-to-be?

  4. The fact that she was deleting texts (and likely calls - review the records with verizon for calls from that number, dude!) is a mega red flag. If there was nothing bad, why did she delete them? Again - how would this excuse fly if the roles were reversed?

  5. What you SHOULD have done is snatched the phone at that very second, and just called him right there on speakerphone. Still an option I suppose.

  6. I'd be curious what her physical reaction was when she got the text. That would be very telling for me.

  7. Bottom line: This does NOT look good. Do NOT gloss over this. Maybe flex a little dread and not break up with her, but call off or delay the wedding. If you apply some heat to her, she may very well snap and tell you the truth.
[-] nightmancommeth 1 Point 2 years ago

Everyone is missing the biggest red flag. It’s the friends or her squad. If she’s willing to put her friends over her relationship then it’s never gonna work. You will worry about this same situation every girls night.

[-] IonianIdol 1 Point 2 years ago

Do yourself a favor and call off the wedding

[-] daveofmars 1 Point 2 years ago

Yeah, I'm going against the grain, but I'm married RP so I live against the grain. Maybe what I say will help, but ultimately you do what you think is right.

If she doesn't hesitate to give you an upfront answer to a straightforward question then she doesn't think what she did was wrong. That could be because she's a hoe and hoe behavior is normal to her, or it could be because it was an innocent exchange and she didn't think much of it, forgot about it, and went on with her night. The question is: which is she? You've known her for how long? Take that into consideration.

It sounds like she was apologetic, and not the anxious kind where they've been found out. That's a good sign, but you be the judge. You were there.

Nexting has its place, but make sure it's for a good reason. You don't want to go full Borderline Personality Disorder and split over every bump in the road.

[-] mistood 1 Point 2 years ago

It's gonna hurt, but trust me it's gonna hurt more 5 years down the line where she goes all the way. The decisions up to you. Do u make the smart logical decision or do u follow ur emotions(love chemicals that deceive you and blind you from the true nature of women). I know u will make the right choice

[-] linso28 1 Point 2 years ago

AWALT gonna be the first words coming out my sons mouth..

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

Lol you keep telling yourself it was for free booze, You're fucking delusional and no.

[-] banica24 1 Point 2 years ago

Hate defending the woman but if you had an opportunity to score free drinks wouldn't you? Or you prefer to pay $15+ a glass? There's a reason why guys who buy girls drinks at clubs are losers

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

Except the likelihood it was just free drinks is low. She was most likely rubbing her ass on his crotch while dancing which is the reason why he told her to call her when in NYC.

[-] John-PaulMagyari 1 Point 2 years ago

You said it yourself, you know what to do.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

Dont get married. Regardless of what your fiance did. It doesnt benefit you in any way

[-] oldslut 1 Point 2 years ago

at least she gave you an early warning to bale out. marriage is for chumps--but you should have known that already

[-] clint_bronson 1 Point 2 years ago

The wedding is off, and let this be a lesson next time you decide to propose to someone.

Also, don't be a stranger and keep us updated.

[-] billybobjoecarl 1 Point 2 years ago

She has breached your trust in the past and has once again. Although this particular case isn’t horrible, it’s worth not marrying. She clearly has poor impulse control and does not deserve a ring from any man let alone you. I’d say demote her to girlfriend permanently and if she fucks up again then ghost or plate. What she is doing is bullshit and you know it. Cancel the wedding plans pal, save yourself some money

[-] Ivabighairy1 1 Point 2 years ago

Low n-count and never turns down sex?

Sorry, doesn't match up in my book.

RUN!!!

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 2 years ago

This is going to be your life, worrying and searching for excuses for her.

"Is there any other answer besides calling off this engagement?"

You already know dude. Ghost this ho.

[-] QPRCHOC 1 Point 2 years ago

I think what might help you in this situation is putting yourself in her shoes.

Imagine giving out your number to 3 different chicks, then deleting text messages in the hope (I can only imagine) someone close to you who can access your phone won't read them.

How would you feel doing that? Dishonest? Sneaky?

Red flags are there for a reason mate. I learned that the hard way.

[-] Aktiv8r 1 Point 2 years ago

Next, she'll tell you she was just caught up in a dicksucking situation.

[-] StrongAffordance 1 Point 2 years ago

Alright so things like this happened with my now ex wife. I wasn’t red pill at the time and convinced myself nothing was wrong even though my gut said otherwise. Needless to say the behavior didn’t end. It’s only going to get worse from here. You need to get out before it costs you years of your life and half of your shit.

At the very least I would call off the engagement and see how things pan out. You need to remove the promise of commitment from this girl.

[-] Yizzy101 0 Points 2 years ago

Lmaoo @ everybody's response. Read this shit long enough, and you'll start to believe the only way to solve any problem is to next the girl.

Shit ain't black & white. We don't know you're relationship like you do. She did whatever she did for one of two reasons, something is lacking in her life, therefore she was seeking a thrill of some sort (Doesn't necessarily mean it's coming from the relationship, could be from a dull life rountine) or she was living in the moment and fell to temptation, and made a mistake like a NORMAL human being, like we MEN do sometimes.

I already know you meatheads can't wait to downvote, tell me I'm a beta, etc...Guess what? FUCK OFF! All in all, my advice to you is to have an honest conversation, understand more from her perspective why she did what she did, set the standards/rules moving forward, pay attention to her actions not her words from now on. She fucks up again, then demote her to plate and move on.

[-] RememberWhenEye 3 Points 2 years ago

This made the most sense. Guys here are very bitter and quick to generalize a strangers relationship and LOVE when they can put a girl I to the normal negative channels of understanding. This place is more MGTOW then MGTOW now.