I notice an increasing abhorrence towards masturbation and porn on many manosphere sites. Its claimed men who abstain will achieve almost superhuman powers at times. I found this amusing that such a harmless thing as jerking off could be given such significance.
But after reading "sperm wars", there may be another sinister element to this "nofap" fad. Sperm is at its most fertile 1-3 days after being produced in the testicles, new sperm is not made until the old sperm is ejaculated.
Sperm quickly deteriorates when not used, and if you have sex with a woman with "old sperm" she is less likely to become pregnant. In the book its claimed that men are shamed by other men about masturbating so their sperm is less healthy which leaves more unfertilized woman out there.
Something to think about when reading about all the porn addiction crap.
[deleted] 10y ago
Masturbation is NOT the issue.
The issue is masturbating 9 times a day while watching porn
The issue is not being able to control yourself and to rub a little one in the bus on a school trip with someone sitting next to you.
The issue is wanting to spend your night looking at some porn and jerking off rather than going out and enjoying life.
You may be right, but I don't think the creator of Nofap thought of it like a sexual strategy. Maybe, it sabotages men, but Nofap was not created to reach that goal.
I do think orgasm has some benefits. But too much orgasm don't. Fuck, jerking off every time in a tissue at night, looking at your computer screen also sabotage men, even more than semen retention I think.
Xbitz 10y ago
I look on nofap and non of those poor bastards are jerking 9 times a day.
Theyre trying to go months without jerking, its like religious self punishment. All for nothing
[deleted] 10y ago
That's like saying "I went to AA and not a single one of those guys had started drinking at 11am." read the stories and you'll find a lot of them HAD BEEN jerking off 9 times a day.
23490865243879526487 10y ago
Daily or semi-daily ejaculation is good for your prostate, until that is scientifically disproved I say nofap benefits (if they are real) are not worth the potential health risk. I bet most people who claim nofap helped them were either jerking off compulsively or it's a placebo effect. Masturbation is a natural bodily function of the primates (as seen in monkeys) just like eating, you can do both excessively with a detrimental effect or by necessity and in moderation for a benefitial effect.
[deleted] 10y ago
that is literally who nofap is created for. the people who had masturbation and porn severely affect their lives
23490865243879526487 10y ago
Yes I'm aware, I'm saying that people who weren't doing it compulsively but still claim that nofap helped them in some way experience a placebo effect.
oldredder 10y ago
That's a very small number of men compared to everyone else. So everyone else should ignore nofap as nonsense.
markasstrick123 10y ago
That's what the beta monkeys do. watch the alphas get it in and stroke their cocks to it.
RedPillSafe 10y ago
Testosterone peaks at 7 days.
So the chances your approach is a success is maximized by a 7 day fap cycle.
If you have a regular girlfriend then you need to go at it (sex) during her 4-5 hormonal peak anyway and that will maximize conception. (multiple ejaculations, fresh sperm)
Fapping is really only a problem if it's done MORE than once a week.
kanaduhisfruityeh 10y ago
Nofap has zero benefits. I've "tried it", mainly because I didn't have the opportunity to jack off for a while. It never got me any pussy.
[deleted] 10y ago
Nofap doesn't get u pussy lmao. It just doesn't provide aN easy outlet for sexual fulfillment, aka the easy road, aka the beta road.
kanaduhisfruityeh 10y ago
If denying myself pleasure doesn't provide me with any benefits, why should I do it? I'd rather take the "easy road" than subject myself to unnecessary BS.
alreadyredschool 10y ago
OP stop being so fucking dense and accept some of the arguments in the comments.
Xbitz 10y ago
Nope, because its junk science.
That Sperm declines in health after 3 days is a fact.
That men shame other men for masturbating is real and has been done for millennia.
Its all about reproduction, pass on the DNA, reduce the other guys ability to reproduce, its unconscious.
alreadyredschool 10y ago
I too dislike nofap because it is 90% broscience. But your way of thinking is flawed too. Sperm quality is not as important as a healthy lifestyle where you don't waste several hours a day masturbating and actually get to meet and fuck girls. Many guys mention a spike in motivation and confidence while nofap. Where nofap is most certainly wrong is when they talk about rising T-levels. Those go down after 7 days.
Xbitz 10y ago
If someone is masturbating several times a day then its obviously too much.
But every day or 2 is natural and healthy. This nofap thing is extreme.
HalfPastTuna 10y ago
Porn induced erectile dysfunction is 100% real and nofap may be a nuclear option that is necessary to get over it.
oldredder 10y ago
100% fake.
What's making men lose their hard-ons is that fat fucking girls or ugly girls is all the cowards are going for. I can't get a hard on for those ugly fucks either but put a hot girl in front of me and we're all good.
Ryohazukisan 10y ago
How will you get a girl pregnant by mastrbating?
Xbitz 10y ago
Men who masterbate regularly have healthier sperm, so when they do have sex its more likely to impregnate them
markasstrick123 10y ago
See you just brought in another positive aspect of nofap. Less chance of getting some bitch pregnant. Lol the benefits of abstaining never end.
Locastor 10y ago
I concur in part (largely), and dissent in part (slightly).
To get the disagreement out of the way first, some men really do have an addiction to pornography and masturbation, and probably should take say a 2 week break while they focus on getting into real life pussy.
For the most part, however, I do agree with you. Orgasm has many health benefits, not least for the prevention of prostate cancer, and pornography is quite often very creative and artistic, and should be celebrated as a field of human endeavour.
mistermorteau 10y ago
The brain needs 90 to 180 days for rewire correctly, and wipes the damage of porn addiction. Give a look about the great porn experience on youtube.
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SeekingTheWay 10y ago
I am currently about 3 weeks on nofap mode and I feel more sexual drive to approach. Plus, I don't want a baby so the possibility of the sperm being ineffective is actualy good for me.
[deleted] 10y ago
the increased sexual drive part is insane, and anyone who hasn't gone 3+ weeks doing it has no idea what they are missing. it affects all parts of my life, including the drive to approach women (as you mentioned)
markasstrick123 10y ago
For me, my physical strength went up, oily skin went away and felt like it could finally breath for the first time in years, was really motivated in general. People that just write off nofap as nonsense are the same as people who write off TRP as nonsense. You can't help buy feel sorry for them.
oldredder 10y ago
I went nofap 90 days. It erased my sex drive. If I continued I would be asexual until the day I died. It's not good.
markasstrick123 10y ago
If you get bones and have wet dreams, you can do nofap forever
oldredder 10y ago
not me - nofap destroyed this, all sex drive completely. Nofap is nosex for me - erases all sex drive.
markasstrick123 10y ago
You get horny as hell. You need to expend energy physically through working out and mentally through studying or you won't make it.
SeekingTheWay 10y ago
I lift every day and I don't study, I work.
markasstrick123 10y ago
Work, school, study, whatever. Same shit
oldredder 10y ago
Nope. It erased my sex drive. Almost lost it forever. Took weeks of sex & masturbation to restore it.
markasstrick123 10y ago
Everyone is different. For me it turned me into an alpha on the prowl
oldredder 10y ago
for others reading then be warned: if this doesn't happen, if sex drive goes down instead of up, stop nofap before it's too late.
markasstrick123 10y ago
As long as you're working out, getting boners, wet dreams... you're good.
oldredder 10y ago
Yup. Had a nice hot dream about that nice young actress Nina Dobrev the other night. You wouldn't believe how many dreams I normally have that are all things about weapons, travel, crazy weird abstract shit that does have some purpose but I won't remember by the time I wake up... it's nice to actually have a decent sex dream.
Sadly, despite there being "leaked pictures" of her in the Fappening, every single one of them is a public picture where she's cute but out with friend, partying, swimming, etc., so I'll have to leave it to my imagination what she looks like under those tight outfits.
tuxidomasx 10y ago
I used to be addicted to porn. I couldnt sleep until i beat one out. I liked the variety that porn provided, but it didn't make me a better man-- it just made me feel good temporarily. Like eating some unhealthy pizza for the taste.
Nowadays, I only masturbate occasionally, and I do it as a form of physical training and self improvement. It's like eating a plain chicken breast for the protein, not for the taste. When I fap, I attempt to train myself to achieve multiple orgasms.
There's a lot of info on the interwebs about this-- getting close to climax and orgasiming without ejaculation. This prevents your dick from going limp, and you can keep going. The more cycles you do in one session, the more powerful each mini-orgasm becomes. After 3 or 4, your dick is rock hard and you have full control of your ejaculation. (if you do this without finally busting a full nut, you'll feel... different... for a few hours. its hard to describe, but its like the un-busted nut energy has a positive effect on your mind and body).
This is a type of training that can make sex way more enjoyable. You'll be able to fuck for as long as you want, while still getting orgasms (without the jizz). And when you finally bust a full nut, it's like the most amazing orgasm ever, you'll be shooting jizz like a pornstar.
I dont know about this no-fap thing, but I think you can use masturbation to improve yourself instead of just going for the easy nut.
kanaduhisfruityeh 10y ago
Since men produce sperm continuously throughout their lives, the sperm was probably meant to be expelled regularly. Women have periods to expel unfertilized eggs. Men need to clear their pipes as well for optimal functioning. Optimal chances for reproduction are at about 1-2 days after last ejaculation.
[deleted] 10y ago
Well, if they are tricking you into not knocking up a bunch of sluts, they're doing you a favor.
rubberbandnot 10y ago
You're like the guys making fun of TRP while never ever having tried it.
If you're willing to believe the countless positive reports and success stories of people who apply TRP in their lives, why wouldn't you believe the numerous testimonials of people on NoFap who have more energy, become more confident and who cured their ED?
TRP has been around since thousands of years just like the benefits of not masturbating, mainly in ancient asian and indian texts.
Porn addiction is real, it fucks your dopamine receptors and one characteristic of dominant monkeys is that they have higher dopamine receptor availability. When people cut the porn, they go through withdrawal symptoms just like drug addicts and begin experiencing more dominant behaviors. (less anxiety, more confidence, deeper voice) These 3 benefits have been experienced by hundreds of people whose stories you can read on NoFap.
Have some critical thinking. and spend some time there instead of sticking to one book that does not even talk about NoFap.
oldredder 10y ago
critical thinking: evidence.
Evidence: nofap makes men weaker, not stronger, and more desperate in their younger years and therefore easier slaves to demands of pussy (hamsters will win).
markasstrick123 10y ago
It made me stronger. Your one size fits all approach is childish. It's like scolding an ectomorph for not dieting like an endomorph, or scolding a BUD/S student for being weaker than a football player. Everyone has different needs and no one is stimulated the same.
Can confirm Nofap made my voice deeper, come at me bro
oldredder 10y ago
It's not one size fits all: it's a warning you might cut your balls off for life & there's no turning back.
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rubberbandnot 10y ago
Being temporarily weak IS part of the process everyone goes through while trying NoFap. Every one who did it has been in a flatline where they feel depressed, want to sleep all day, have no energy, have no sex drive and can't get a boner
after it's over though, everyone reports feeling stronger, mentally and physically.
you just lacked the discipline and willpower to go through the flatline and think nofap makes everyone weak. Flatline makes us weak but once it's over, people feel great but you have never known that feeling.
oldredder 10y ago
It's permanent harm.
I just saved myself in time before I lost my sex drive forever. I never, ever had a problem where it would take more than 30 minutes to get hard with a girl I'm attracted to. That only happened because of nofap. Nofap is bad news.
If I had gone 180 days instead of 90 I would never get an erection again in my life. My body forgets what sex is. Your nonsense-ilk keep saying you get built up sexual tension and higher sex drive. No. This is not the case. I lost all sex drive, no more erections, no more thoughts of sex, it's like sex was a mythical thing which didn't exist - it was erased completely from my drives because of nofap.
Even drugs that are well known to destroy sex drive if abused, like cocaine or morphine, didn't do that to me, in fact, morphine & meth amplified my sex drive. Coke: not so much, and that should be no surprise.
I have more willpower than all people on Earth. I can literally reprogram all drives to do anything I want, and if I decide it shall be so, I shall never stop, not for decades.
Bottom line is I am too smart to do a bad wrong thing to myself over and over like a stupid robot. Nofap is bad and I stopped it because I have good willpower, smarts and know that it will erase my masculinity forever. It will make me a ken doll with no penis.
rubberbandnot 10y ago
Flatline is not permanent so everything you wrote is wrong.
Everyone eventually recovers and their sex drive and rock hard boners come back.
oldredder 10y ago
will be super long-term. I'm not willing to take the risk to find out it's gone forever.
My sex drive is good enough to do 3 to 5 fucks a day with no use of nofap so you can keep it.
[deleted] 10y ago
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oldredder 10y ago
Chasing women isn't normal - it's slavery.
You shouldn't be chasing them, they should be chasing you because you have value.
[deleted] 10y ago
I don't understand how people can fuck up their "wiring" like this. Real sex with a woman engages all of your senses. You have real ass and tits to grab, real pheromones to take in, etc. These are novelties that porn can never provide and they should trump any weird fetish you've developed throughout your fapping career.
The biggest factor of my drive to get hot women is that I get to, ya know, touch them. The visual stimuli of their hotness is just what gets you wanting to do that.
teeelo 10y ago
All sensations can go numb from over use.
I read a funny article about advice for Women using their Hitachi Vibrator, too much use and it doesn't make the same impression anymore. Few days off, good to go.
Without knowing any of the No Fap culture, I would assume they were more or less in an extreme habit of watching porn and fapping just because it was so easy.
Then it leads to the crazier and crazier shit.
I think a week with no fap is more than enough to set a guy straight again.
Xbitz 10y ago
Doubt it. I masturbate to my imagination as much as to porn. With my imagination I can put in real women I know, which makes it hotter
10,000 years ago men had vivid imaginations just like we do now.
A lot of hysteria over nothing, and probable subconscious sabotage of other mens reproduction.
thinktankman 10y ago
Sorry son there is nothing wrong with masturbating but when you do that above getting shit done its a problem. Jerking off is a lot easier than actually going out to find a chick to hook up with, that instant gratification. Not to mention when most of these guys finally do get laid they can't keep it up because the ability to switch girls midway is not there.
Growing up in today's world men will masturbate 4 times in a sitting and as far as using our imagination goes most of us imagine its our cocks being downed by the chicks in the video. Fap all you want, I only fap as a reward to something I accomplish and I make sure its just as good as sex if not better.
DrGmorkian 10y ago
You mention instant gratification and I think that is a big reason some dudes turn to nofap.
There have been longitudinal studies conducted on resisting instant gratification with results that correlate to the pros that nofappers preach.(google/youtube Walter Mischel and the Marshmallow Test, Philip Zimbardo)
I like your take on only fapping as a reward, as after all, sex is a reward of living your life in a confident, assertive, alpha manner.
mistermorteau 10y ago
You should give a look about sane or healthy masturbation. Robert Glover wrote about this in NMMNG.
When you masturbate on fantasy, you are more focused on what happens in your brain than about what happen in your body/sex.
I know it's hard to imagine but it is possible to masturbate without porn or fantasy.
oldredder 10y ago
It is but it depends on how distracted you are by other really important things in your life.
rpking 10y ago
You cannot be serious. This is the most outlandish and stupid tinfoil hat bullshit that I have heard of this week. Having been active in the both the nofap and redpill community for about two years, I can assure you that this is false. Why does temporarily less healthy sperm even matter outside of the context of marriage, do you really want to get a girl pregnant every time you bang her? If you are in marriage, you should be getting laid more than once every three days, and as a result the temporary infertility from nofap becomes irrelevant.
oldredder 10y ago
I can assure you your comment is 100% bullshit and harmful.
I tried it and it almost destroyed me. If I had gone 180 days instead of 90 days I'd probably be permanently disabled from having sex.
[deleted] 10y ago
Your report of almost losing your mojo from 90d of nofap is an N=1 experiment and you're being alarmist. This is your experience with it and calling someone else's criticism "100% bullshit and harmful" isn't helping your case.
By this logic if you didn't masturbate for the first 2920 days of your life if you learned to fap at eight years old you'd never be able to have sex, ever. There are many other variables that we don't know about your nofap experience, such as, what was your testosterone levels before and during? How often were you doing it before hand? What behaviors were you using to substitute in for fapping? We're these so extreme that you couldn't find any way to be aroused again? Really?
And finally, I'm unsure about your claim that new sperm aren't made until the old sperm are "spent." Everything I've heard about it seems to say that its a continuous process:
This would make sense because you would always be "baby-making fresh" if you were shooting or not. The average testes makes sperm cells at a rates of 85M/day, so 170M/day with an intact pair. If you were shooting 3-6 times a day fapping because you have no self-control, you would be less fertile than someone doing a 7-14 day "prostate maintenance shot."
The purpose of nofap is not not to fap, but to learn self-control. You've gone into panic and that is not self-control.
oldredder 10y ago
I don't give a fuck.
It's bad for me and I don't give a fuck what else you guys do with your dicks.
I have to be driven, I have to do things. If there's no masturbation there better be sex. By all means if I'm having sex 3 times a day I feel no particular need to jerk off. I've had all I need.
And yes, the very long period up to my first time having sex also meant my first time having sex was very difficult. My body wasn't into it yet and without practice that mean it was like my body just had no idea what to do. I couldn't get into sex until several more times.
I've got plenty of self control. No one here's pushed no-fap as "self-control", instead they've pushed bro-science Encyclopedia Bro-Medica nonsense.
Self-control by all means is fine but I found masturbation actually good for that: it's the only way I've learned to be able to get an erection again right after orgasm & to control the orgasm so it's like 70% as strong as it could be so I can just go again. It's because of that I can do sex for 10 hours solid. Without that I would finish like any other average chump and be done for the night.
I'm not in panic. I'm rejecting nonsense pushed as good science & good for sex life. It's bad science and no good for sex life.
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Xbitz 10y ago
Its backed by science, as stated in "sperm wars".
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oldredder 10y ago
like nofap - total bullshit.
markasstrick123 10y ago
Masturbating to pornography is for beta males. Look at ape society. The betas jerk off while watching the alpha in the distance getting it in. Oh, check out what three months of no flap, working out, and screaming did for this guy https://38.media.tumblr.com/d9e1163b3c488ebd4ea8e9a338760828/tumblr_mongx01r1F1soussso1_500.png
TED talk http://youtu.be/wSF82AwSDiU
oldredder 10y ago
Pornography is something interesting to see/hear.
Without porn or a girl to fuck all I can think about is everything else - hobbies, work, budgets, math, machines, anything. It takes all the fun out of trying to get hard and bust a nut.
Or worse... ex girlfriends. I'd rather erase them from my memory than think about them just because I get a hard on.
Calamash 10y ago
I feel this honestly just hamstering a reason to keep masterbating
oldredder 10y ago
Masturbating is physically healthy. Period
Calamash 10y ago
Masturbation has its down sides and saying it doesn't is just plain ignorance
oldredder 10y ago
Sure, just call out the downsides accurately. Masturbating to compensate for a fear of approaching women is cowardly & will never get you better at approaching.
Masturbating right before sex for some odd irrational impulse/reason will lead to an obvious end result of usually not being ready enough to actually go have sex right then & there.
Spending too much time not dealing with regular every day things, doing just one thing too much like video games, masturbation, sleeping, drugs, etc., are all bad for the same reason (wasting time) as well as more specific reasons (masturbation probably being the least bad of the short list I just gave).
The reasons typically given for this nofap nonsense are broscience Encyclopedia Bro-Medica nonsense.
Ignatius_Oh_Reilly 10y ago
Sperm wars is pretty much bunk.
As for no fap, and whether that particular claim on the book is righy. I have no idea. No fap does temporarily increase testorone. I tried it but got near random erections like I was in high school and couldn't focus.
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IVIaskerade 10y ago
Random erections in high school is pretty normal, it's a result of your body reacting to the huge changes (particularly hormonal ones) it undergoes during puberty.
Of course, ogling that fit teacher's arse didn't help either.
Ignatius_Oh_Reilly 10y ago
Yeah but it's not in your mid twenties, which happened when I tired no fap by day 3.
IVIaskerade 10y ago
Again, it's a result of your body re-adjusting. It settles down after a while.
Source: Went 3 months without because I wondered what it would be like to "just give up", and didn't feel the urge to get back into things for that long.
Ignatius_Oh_Reilly 10y ago
I don't doubt it. It's just I can't go to class, ride the subway, go swimming with random boners. Plus I couldn't study without thinking about tits. For me it got in the way too much. If I can take a long vacation I'll give it a second go, so I can go through that phase without getting in the way.
Exactly_what_I_think 10y ago
Nofap is a sexual strategy not a reproductive strategy.
[deleted] 10y ago
You're an idiot, it's about self control, it's about the absolute rush you get once you hit like 7 days.
You can't even turn your head a couple degrees towards a female without just wanting to ravage everything. It's just pure sexual energy, I mean after it starts to wane down, so I kind of clock it in to a good 7 days max or whenever I get laid if its before the 7 days.
If a guy is trying to get a woman pregnant, not having random unprotected sex, but actually trying to get a chick pregnant he will obviously not be masturbating, just fucking his wife/girlfriend every day.
If a guy is hooking up, he's using a condomn, so who the fuck cares if sperm is healthier in 1-3 days, it's 20fucking14 it's called birth control. This is the dumbest conspiracy theory I have ever heard of.
Xbitz 10y ago
its not a conspiracy, its evolutionary psychology, its unconsciously done.
[deleted] 10y ago
this is the dumbest shit i have ever seen, how it got upvoted on this subreddit blows my mind. people like OP give TRP a bad rep
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