Here is the story.
So the guy fucked up in his teens and knocked a girl up. 15 years later, this kid who might as well be alien to him, rocks up on facebook demanding a relationship and demanding his money.
He chooses to not respond, especially after she becomes hostile, and looks instead to protect his assets and his own family, whom he's actually known and cared for his life.
Now whether you agree with this action or not, look at the response in the comments.
The women are raging. Absolutely furious. How dare this man refuse a girl his money? They act almost as if its not his money, but her rightful money. Like, how dare a guy protect his assets, a man's money only exists to pay for women.
Look at this answer her:
So, to answer your question... this dude, like my father, helped create a life and now has an obligation - even if it's expensive, inconvenient, or harshing his mellow with his newer, better kid. If he can't manage emotional support, he should stay away, not jerk her around, and do the bare minimum by giving material support. Help with college tuition, pay child support, throw cash at the "problem" if he can't be a dad. If you can't be a parent, be a benefactor. Life is expensive and the kid didn't ask to be born.
So like, even if we don't want your emotional support or an actual fatherly relationship, we still want your bucks? Notice how they offer no leniency towards a man, a man has no right to regret his past decisions. He must forever be held accountable! Or so they think.
Imagine if it were a woman. A woman is always allowed to regret her decisions. Even if she didn't bother using protection. Even if she's had five abortions, she should still be allowed to have another one for being careless. If a woman doesn't want her baby, she can throw it up for adoption, even anonymously, so it will never ever haunt her again! Can you imagine any one of them for a second daring to criticise a woman who makes such a decision? Of course not. A woman should never be held responsible.
But a man who makes one mistake must pay for it out of his pocket, because that money is a woman's entitlement! Look how they so easily self-insert into the daughter in the scenario. They can so easily see themselves hungrily pawing after the money.
If this story is true, then props to the guy for looking out for himself and his family, and not letting some stuck up teen brat screw him over for dollars.
Burner1701 8y ago
Take a moment to remind yourself, and your sons, not to have unprotected sex with strange girls. It sounds like with his lifestyle back then that this was inevitable and the mother has actually been unusually responsible in raising the child by herself without chasing him for child support. You also can't blame the daughter for being butthurt with him posting pictures of his new adored kid in a great car. Yes the mother could have had an abortion but he could also have not had unprotected sex. If his mistakes can be written off as "young and dumb" then so can hers.
I don't think blocking the daughter is a grown up response.
rundownweather 8y ago
It's honestly a very sad state of affairs. This man had no intention of having a child at the time and he clearly told the mother to get an abortion, which the mother didn't do because women are FUCKING STUPID AND JUST LOVE TO FUCK THEIR LIVES UP APPARENTLY sorry lost frame there, but i speak from experience.
The sad thing about this situation is that he still comes out as the monster for a decision that was ultimately completely in the mother's hands. And of course the mother made sure to tell all about it to the child, who is now out for blood. I'm reasonably sure the man is never going to be completely off the hook. The daughter (raised by a single mom, likely bereft of a father figure, and guided by her hormones) will contact him again over the years. His son will learn about it, and who knows how that will go... it may well drive a rift between him and his dad, or cause him to question whether he was wanted or not. In short, it's a recipe for disaster.
Without even going into the child support money thing (which by law he wasn't required to give) and the fact that he could claim he wasn't informed of his daughter's existance, it's a really bad predicament. I think the best course of action would be to go and have a stern talk-to with his daughter and explain to her his point of view and how he does not want her in his life - or at least this is what looks like the ethical solution to me. Depending on the case, if I were this man, i could go as far as being willing to allow limited contact with her, but NOT with the mother. Of course, depending on the law, this could possibly screw him even worse, in which case he's really better off without her.
The fact that women can screw up a man's life so easily is no many ways will never cease to astound me.
Stayinghereforreal 8y ago
If a kid showed up at a woman's house, having been left at the hospital years ago by the birth mother, my guess is those same posters would not be insisting that "mom" open up her checkbook without restraint.
Nah. There would be plenty of empathizing with the "mom" who made a painful decision--likely because of a man, of course--to leave the child, and that was something we cannot judge her about. Because obviously the "mom" only did that because of some external force making her do so.
And now the "mom" should not be expected to provide money, because there must be a man or some men out there who should be held to account for all this.
Etc. r/ relationships is particularly prone to such lopsidedness in such matters.
NoFap_Newb 8y ago
It would be fun to put up a post in that sub worded completely gender-neutral to see how many hamsters insist on knowing which party is male before deciding who is right and who is wrong.
bsutansalt 8y ago
It's why /r/RelationshipsUncut exists.
[deleted] 8y ago
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bsutansalt 8y ago
Make some then! It's brand new and needs your support.
Eurasianpersuasion01 8y ago
I loved reading the post. This is one of the most cold and calculating stories I have seen on reddit. This man is pragmatic to the core, which I absolutely respect.
We can debate for days on the morality of his choices. Whether he made the "right" decision to give up on his previous daughter in favor of protecting his current family. This would come at the cost of the daughters emotional well-being.
Personally, I would have taken a similar course of action but would be open to providing some form of support to the daughter in the future if I was in fact the biological father.
Overall, I think he made the most pragmatic decision available to him. It's unfortunate for the daughter but that's life, it's not fair. I find it amusing how strongly reddit reacted to this, they are so caught up in doing what's "right" they can't see that there is no good and evil, only power.
fittitthroway 8y ago
Your comment is really underrated
BowlOfCandy 8y ago
I'm franky disgusted with this, despite it being the typical TRP success story where the man is free of any legal obligation because logic. Obviously it's a very messy situation and there quite possibly is no way to fix it. But this story, and the comments I see here, is an example of the hypocrisy of this subs TRP mentality at a high level. This teenage girl is going to have such tremendous daddy issues that she will never be able to have a healthy relationship with any man in her life. She is going to be a wrecking ball of emotion, likely to ride the CC per usual circumstances and never value her femininity in the context of pairing with a masculine counterpart. She will embody the very core issues in gender relations that produced this sub
I would like to hope that TRP values the strength of the family unit, but a majority of the members here seem to think that a child is somehow responsible for the mother's actions.
collidoscope 8y ago
I read the original post and the update and at no point does the daughter ask for money. At no point does the mother ask for money or complicate this man's life. If every man who had a child he didn't want ended up in this guy's position, they would be thankful. This guy is a huge pussy.
fastball21 8y ago
And at no point has a DNA test been done to determine paternity. He's owes nothing to anyone until that's confirmed, and that should be a conversation between him and the mother, not between his Facebook account and an aggrieved 15 year old he's never met. In all seriousness if a 15 year girl started contacting me through social media, I'd shut everything down because there's no way anything good would come with contact like that.
[deleted] 8y ago
That is absolutely true, people saying the opposite thinking they sound redpill or alpha or whatever word makes them feel happy are like those religious fanatics, taking an ideology from its ass and forgetting about the core : in theredpill's case = being a man. The man of the story is a greedy asshole. Past mistake or not, a man takes responsibility for his actions, past or present, especially if it involves his biological child.
fittitthroway 8y ago
Uh read the part where she says that his son gets a mercedes and she, the first born gets nothing. Read it again.
Wilhelm_Stark 8y ago
Yeah, that's the bottom line. It's really not about the money. If it were, it would be a different situation.
No. This man is literally running away from a little girl, who is probably his daughter, who probably just wants to have some sort of relationship with her biological father. It's another thing if he was never a father before, and never had that planned in his life, but no. He already has a son. He understands what a child is.
And he immediately blocks everything about her as soon as she makes contact. He essentially makes her out to be an enemy as well. This man is a giant fucking pussy. This has nothing to do with Red Pill stuff either. This dude fucked up and didn't take care of his shit.
fittitthroway 8y ago
The way child support laws are.... I dont think hes being a pussy.
Smart.
Yeah. Smart. Smart fits.
Generati0nY 8y ago
So glad I don't have a Facebook.
RedSugarPill 8y ago
Boo hoo hoo... every kid says that to his/her parents when they are teens. Welcome to life kid. It gets worse (but for you, it'll get better for oh, about 10-15 years, then it will suck again. Buckle up and enjoy the ride!
CptDefB 8y ago
The double standard is clearly there... but...
... this guy is making a mountain out of peas. A 15 year old who is apparently across the country says she's going to be a better person than you and your son.... where is the intent to convey any actual harm? She damned him? Oh no.
I don't get how this is a big deal, outside of the double standard itself, which is comical in the snarky ways it manifests itself on reddit. People say these things not even knowing what they don't know, with such pride too.
It's sad, seeing these people be useful idiots for the destruction of society... even if schadenfreude is kinda nice. Not sure I'm down with my experience happening at the end... but, these are the cards, so...
[deleted] 8y ago
Well why wouldn't women want this? It's a lovely little ka-ching for them if they find out their Mom cucked their dad and it's a load off for when their daughter figures out that daddy was cucked. A woman get the finances of two fathers, her daughter gets the financing of two fathers, and everyone wins! Well, at least everyone that feminists consider to be human.
wayoftheright 8y ago
This and many other reasons is why so many men can't respect women. Notice i didn't say dont, they mentally and physical can't because most women do not deserve it. In fact most want to but it's like rewarding a child for throwing a tantrum for not getting their way. That's bad parenting, just like giving shit to women who think they are entitled to stuff makes me a bad human being and not much of a man.
Sir_Shitlord_focker 8y ago
"demanding a relationship and demanding his money."
Not true. Read the fucking thing, she insulted him and then blocked him, she asked neither of those things. Facts are facts.
randombrodude 8y ago
Guy didn't just "fuck up as a teen" either, he was 19 when got the girl pregnant. That's an adult and he should know to wear a fucking rubber if he doesn't want a child to support.
Honestly, this guy comes across like an insecure baby fuck. All he does is complain about "how hard it is", and that "he's really a nice, responsible guy", despite being a dick with no sense of responsibility to his own daughter. Basically, running a male hamster so he can feel like he isn't a dick even while acting like nothing but a dick. It's no wonder he fucked up his marriage either.
Sure, there's a double standard. Women are given way more leniency in running from their mistakes. But this bullshit should be infuriating no matter who's doing it.
Yeah, this guy should be held responsible for his one mistake. Sometimes one time is all it takes, tough shit.
Sir_Shitlord_focker 8y ago
To me it smells like bait. I could be wrong but the way it's been written, the style, my radar just goes off.
merodiaj 8y ago
Nowadays, TRP is an ugly hybrid bastard child of MGTOW/JusticePorn.
The days when it was about discussing uncomfortable truths are gone. Now we just want stories that comfort red pillers and would cause normal blue pill people to cringe.
These stories serve the same purpose that inside jokes, handshakes, songs and stories server: our 'non-normal' reaction signals to the group that we are a part of the group.
Sir_Shitlord_focker 8y ago
Now let's not dramatize, I enjoy justice porn as much as the next guy, but I'm not willing to make shit up to get it :D
TRP has saved my life, It's got a lot of good about it, but yeah there's groupthink in every group, thankfully I'm immune to it, usually making me a fringe member in any organization.
There's a lot of truth in the side bar, a lot more than in everyday life. I'm watching this new TV show called "I am Jazz" about this transexual teenage ladyboy.
She's upset because the boys in school won't flirt with her, and her family/doctor/friends are ALL selling this as normal, it will come, you'll see, it's all about personality....
It sounds exactly like what people would tell me when I would never have a girlfriend growing up and be turned down by all the girls. It's a lie.
And it tears you up inside.
When it's so simple to say the truth, then people know where they stand at least, they can move if they want to. Lies create a state of paralysis where you are forever doomed to repeat the same pattern of failure.
TRP is build around breaking that pattern, so of course there's a lot of "splash" around the edges, but that doesn't invalidate the need for TRP.
Any yeah this post was stupid and misleading, should have been edited at least.
[deleted] 8y ago
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ROFLME 8y ago
It's a shame its about how alpha you can appear to be on reddit more and more as the sub number goes up... I don't remember TRP being a parody of itself at around 60k subs
phrostbyt 8y ago
I'm convinced that half the posters here are just nerds fantasizing about being macho
Sdom1 8y ago
DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!
Talon1212 8y ago
Eh the whole situation sucks to be honest. Looks like theres no winner here.
128bitworm 8y ago
As the lyrics go... "A restless eye across a weary room A glazed look and I was on the road to ruin The music played and played as we whirled without end No hint, no word her honour to defend I will, I will she sighed to my request And then she tossed her mane while my resolve was put to the test Then drowned in desire, our souls on fire I lead the way to the funeral pyre And without a thought of the consequence I gave in to my decadence One slip, and down the hole we fall It seems to take no time at all A momentary lapse of reason That binds a life for life A small regret, you won't forget, There'll be no sleep in here tonight..."
Or ever again. For the guy anyway.
666Evo 8y ago
I think the accurate test is to switch the genders and see how it reads.
"Abandoned son, demands money from birth mother."
Some people may support the kid but those people will be in a stark minority.
Moldy_Gecko 8y ago
I dunno.
The woman that chose to keep his/her mistake has been financially supporting their daughter for 15 years. I'm not saying he should have to backpay child support or anything, but it's clearly not only one-sided. She told him she was pregnant, he ran away and now wants to act like "it never happened".
As a father of 2 girls and a man that had the same situation until I was 8 (Father booked when Mom got pregnant (and many many other reasons)), I don't see why you wouldn't want to see your daughter now that you are financially stable and in a position to have a relationship with her. My dad couldn't even wait that long. He found my mom, agreed to paid child support as long as he got custody over the summer.
And thi guy is kind of a tool. He thought that his daughter "Threatened" him and his son by saying she'll be better than them. What a pussy! I say I'm better or will be better than people all the time, that doesn't mean I'm going to harm them.
ALL THAT being said, he did the right thing finding a lawyer and cutting communication until it's all sorted out. But his mindset for doing that is fucked. He should want to make sure his feet are planted on the ground and both sides know what to expect going ahead. Not, "It's in the past, I want nothing to do with it". Just my 2 pennies.
fittitthroway 8y ago
Is he really a pussy knowing what child support laws are like?
Moldy_Gecko 8y ago
I feel like you only read to there. I also mention he did the right thing the way he followed up. The reason I called him a pussy is because he took a 15 yr. Old girls self motivation/reasoning comment as a serious threat.
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reisli 8y ago
Women have an out if they don't want their mistakes. They just give it up for adoption.
Men apparently are a wallet for their mistakes.
rebuildingMyself 8y ago
Hell, women can freely drop the kid off in designated "drop zones" like a bag of empty beer cans if they don't want to deal with the adoption paperwork.
NoFap_Newb 8y ago
And there is an endless supply of people looking to adopt any baby that isn't obviously broken.
relationshipdownvote 8y ago
Guy never had anything to do with child that's biologically his
It's still your child you need to support it
Guy wants to leave after raising a child that ended up not being his
You're still the father, you need to support it
fittitthroway 8y ago
The comments to his posts are absolutely rage inducing. Holy fuck Im so pissed reading them. Those fucking delusional selfish cumdumsters are unbearable.
Sdom1 8y ago
Wow, and we talk about women being solipsistic! Your thread title is misleading. The girl never asked him for money. In fact, she never asked him for anything. She's angry because he threw her away, and now she sees photos on the internet of him being a father to a new kid. The remark about the toddler getting a Mercedes and her getting nothing wasn't an attempt to get money out of him. It was about her being completely unwanted.
Just put yourself in her position. Fuck yeah, you'd be angry! You'd want to beat his worthless ass down. I know I would. What, you think she hasn't been told her father's words to her mother on finding out she was pregnant were "have an abortion, I'll pay for it"? That her father wanted nothing to do with her? All completely true, by his own admission.
And now, his reaction to all this was to delete all her comments and lock down his account? She's right, he's flat out cowardly. He didn't respond, he just ran away. And what's more telling is that his only thought was for himself. Am I going to deal with drama? Am I going to have to pay? At no point did he go, "Oh God, this could actually be my kid! How must this make her feel?"
Do you realize what not having a father does to a kid? That's the basis of the whole Father's Rights movement.
Listen, I know everyone talks about Chad Thundercock here and cuckolding and hypergamy and all that. The problem with a lot of that is that, not only do they give women way too much credit as evaluators of men, but this sets up the dynamic that a bum is a good thing to be. And the logical conclusion is that any man who is a good father and is there for his kid is just a weak little sucker who is dumb enough to let a woman tie him down.
This is all bullshit.
You can be an alpha male without being a bum. Even in the wild, an alpha male protects and/or provides for his offspring. Without fathers, society breaks down.
athrowawaytothrowawa 8y ago
I absolutely agree with you. TRP is not realizing the importance of obligation. As men in this society, we have an obligation to take care of our offspring.
Trail_of_Jeers 8y ago
Someone ought to tell empowered women, who don't need no man, this.
You are absolutely ignoring that women broke the marriage contract dead long before men did. It's been over 60 years since women decided to walk away, and here you are mewling that the man do his part.
No. The bridle is off, the contract broken. Enjoy the decline.
Sdom1 8y ago
They tell themselves whatever they have to so they can live with their mistakes, but believe me, most of them know the truth deep down.
Hard words, from a soft man. Yes, I am saying that a man does his part. That's what makes a man. Duty is the essence of manhood. Your problem is you equate duty with servitude. My point is that you can't reclaim your rightful position of leadership in society without being able to shoulder the obligations that come along with it. Power without duty is tyranny, and you won't command the respect you have to to lead.
No one beat us. We surrendered! All of this "enjoy the decline" bullshit is just sissy talk.
Trail_of_Jeers 8y ago
And what a good horse you are. Yes, such soft fur, such strong limbs. I am certain you will pull the plow well. And maybe, if you do so well, the princess will feed you apples and let you sniff some vag.
Your problem is you don't
You can say men need to step up all you want, but unless you can offer incentives (and you can't, Feminism won't let you), then find some other schmuck to die for your cause.
Call me a sissy, call me soft. I don't listen to the talk of slaves.
RPthrowaway123 8y ago
I love how a man's past is totally relevant, but a woman's past "has nothing to do with who I am now!!1" It's such a bullshit double standard. fuck, shit like this pisses me off.
All these people calling him a piece of shit for literally doing what women do all the fucking time - try to ignore their past while they build something in the present.
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[deleted] 8y ago
I never understood the logic behind "her past doesnt matter". Your past (experience) is who you are now, without your past you dont exist.
shhRP 8y ago
I didn't see in the post where they were asking for his money - simply for him to be involved.
And I'm sorry redpill, but part of being a man means being accountable for your actions. Lawyering up to keep your child from their father because you are too scared/whatever is in no way commendable.
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trp_ta 8y ago
Meh... double standards abound. I can sleep with several girls, and they can't do the same. I get to be the leader, she has to follow. But, I am on the hook for a lot of shit, because I'm the leader.
I agree the legal system is fucked, but I'm not mad about the double standard. It's just fucked for everyone.
rebuildingMyself 8y ago
In order for a woman to have that privilege, she needs a man around to clean up the messes behind her.
Denswend 8y ago
Probably the most important thing I've got from TRP is that you never take what a woman and female-like creatures says out of context, and then try to apply it generally.
"Oh, silly, it's the who raises them that's important" when it comes to banning paternity tests while at the same time "It's your sperm, so pay shit up" when the topic of child support comes up. A person might ask "but isn't that hypocritical - cause you support cultural thesis in one instance, but deny it in the other".
Dead wrong. It's not hypocritical at all. They don't use ideas for the sake of ideas, let alone themselves for the sake of their ideas. They use their ideas to benefit themselves. Female Imperative is the embodiment of Briffault's Law and it has no loyalty to any ideology but itself.
So you see, in the both examples above, Female Imperative was loyal to the Female Imperative - not culture or genetic based ideologies. Nothing hypocritical - even though they are not exactly conscious of that - and you'd never get women to openly admit that - they'd lose all their moral superiority and thus look bad.
Icaria25 8y ago
U can define it "not hypocritical" only by starting by the root female psychologic defense mechanism ( hamster ). Isn't this entering female frame ? i'm well aware that there, it's not bad at all, not "hypocritical". While i can agree that it's stupid to pretend same standards for different genders, conceptually this is confusing. I think it would be much better to consider it hypocritical as definition, since that's basically the definition of it in male behaviour. If you would take everything u said ( less the gender part ) and put it on a male, it would result extremely hypocritical. I find a better approach not to change the keyword ( hypocrisy ), but rather the ethic framework ( acceptable/not acceptable ), pointing out the differences in gender evolution that bring here.
MHOOD01 8y ago
You should've seen the TIL thread about Billie Piper refusing her husbands money when she got a divorce.
HOLIDAY_headcase 8y ago
That drove a bunch of people here.
anomanderrape 8y ago
Yep, can you imagine if a guy refused to date a girl who had 5 abortions in the past or who had anonymously dropped him off at an orphanage and never given him so much as a cent or a post card his entire life. "HOW DARE YOU ITS MY BODY YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME ITS MY BODY ITS IN THE PAST I WASN'T READY"
cheddarpenquincracka 8y ago
"My body doesn't want to be in your used up body"
spicedncoke 8y ago
What's ironic is how feminists claim their right to abortion because it's "my body, my choice", but they are only responsible for 50% of the creation of the child, the other 50% being the man's sperm.
If a woman has a unilateral right to having an abortion without any input from the man (which happens more often than you'd think), than the man should be allowed to give up parental rights.
...oh sorry, I forgot, this is feminism. Equal rights only apply when it's convenient for them.
BenjiFranx 8y ago
100% Equal rights == Equal. Not pick and choose... Pick low paying jobs then complain that they are paid less... still expect men to pay for everything... IF a dude don't kiss her ass and call her a princess then he is an extremist, or a hater... fucking nuts.
Red_August 8y ago
This is correct. Your biological hazard goes as follows: if you're a man, and your little community in Buttfuck Idaho is invaded by a band of raging Mongols on horseback, it stands to reason that it will ultimately fall on men to take the brunt of the attack as men are stronger, faster, smarter, built-for, and simply better at the task. Sure, some women may stand, and fight, and some might be tolerated in doing so if they are not an overall net loss to the initiative, but most would contribute otherwise such as mending the wounded, logistics, etc. If you lose, you're dead - too bad - and most of your women would soon after start tingling, and spreading their legs for their new alpha Mongolian conquerors, and life would go on without you - history repeated countless times.
That's just the way the cookie crumbles, too bad you're dead.
Should a woman become pregnant, the biological hazard falls on her to deal with it. If they don't want the responsibility of a newborn then they should either not fuck, fuck only if they have a 'safe harbour', or get an abortion. Having an abortion is not ordinarily a pleasant procedure, nor is having a baby alone, but - too bad - it is their biological hazard. Your mileage may vary according to your morals, but I think it's high time we pull that thick nonsense safety mat from under their feet, and return to some natural fundamentals.
[deleted] 8y ago
Anyone who wants to invade Idaho, well good luck. Bring lots of ammo and lots of friends. Like millions. Lol.
_ItNeverEndsDoesIt 8y ago
Exactly.
Women in our society basically have the RIGHT to abandon their children to whatever fate the world has in store for them, and it's perfectly fine and no one says anything. And keep in mind she's the one who carries the child for 9 months and gives birth.
A man donates a little sperm and suddenly he has DUTY, and OBLIGATION, and MORAL BLA BLA BLA for 18-25 years, regardless of anything, and if he doesn't "man up" to it, everyone loses their minds.
RedBigMan 8y ago
A woman only has to carry a child for 9 months. A man has to carry a child for the rest of his life.
Sdom1 8y ago
Oh, so now my tax dollars should go to clothing and feeding and perhaps incarcerating this kid (single motherhood is the single greatest driver of crime rates) so this douchebag can buy a Mercedes and post pictures of it on Instagram?
FUCK THAT.
However you want to dice this, that guy made a human being who he never even acknowledged. Even now, he has absolutely no concern for her, he's just worried about "drama." Seriously, what a little pussy he is!
Are you so solipsistic that you can't even understand there's a kid here who has to see, in pictures, that her father never wanted her, but he sure wants this new kid!
You can't see why that's wrong? Nobody ever asked this douchebag for money, that's just what he's worried about. Gotta make the payments on that Benz!
SpartiGaz 8y ago
Totally off-base dude. He didn't want the kid, told her to get an abortion, told her he would pay for it, he put the ball in her court, she decided to roll with it.
You are holding him responsible for her decision.He made his stance clear, should be end of story for him.
Doesn't make someone a pussy to not deal with a problem that isn't his. She's an angry little bitch, and he is walking away from it. Maintaining his family and his life, looking out for himself. I've seen this ideal all over RedPill, look out for number one first.
Why does her possibly being his biological descendant change that?
Maybe yeah, he could have taken care of the child, but reading the content he didn't even know she carried to term or kept the baby until after those things happened, so why would he have any attachment that leads to caring?
_ItNeverEndsDoesIt 8y ago
Still in the anger phase, I see.
Sdom1 8y ago
No. Getting angry at a scumbag for being a scumbag isn't a phase for me. I just have no tolerance for bullshit, no matter the gender.
_ItNeverEndsDoesIt 8y ago
He's not a scumbag, dude.
He told her "We're not a couple and I have no interest in being a father. You cannot count on me."
She then decided to bring a life into the world. It's on her dude.
RPthrowaway123 8y ago
It's very similar to the man not having the right to financially abort a child if a woman decides she is having it without his consent/against his will. Men are expected to be the world's god damn piggy bank. I hope someday that men say enough is enough about this shit.
Where is the girl's mother in all of this? What about this situation makes people think that him being involved in her life would even be a positive thing for either of them? They literally want him to just give her money so that she will shut up.
TekkomanKingz 8y ago
Nope cause if he caves in and gives her money she will take him for everything he has. And that will endanger the welfare of his LEGITIMATE son. He is doing the right thing by keeping his distance.
interestedplayer 8y ago
I have posted this before and I'll post it again, because it perfectly fits todays world for a (white) male:
If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier the world bore down upon his shoulders - What would you tell him?"
I…don't know. What…could he do? What would you tell him?"
To shrug.
Thats whats happening. Men are carrying the world on their backs and their effort, and the more they do it the more is expected off of them.
IllimitableMan 8y ago
To continue with your metaphor, MGTOW is shrugging. Thing is, plenty of men want a family (kids.)
[deleted] 8y ago
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merodiaj 8y ago
Get real. If this guy doesn't pay to raise his hoodlum, then I'm gonna have to pay through taxes or charities. I thought TRP was about owning your shit. This guy ain't owning nothing.
I have swallowed the red pill, but I will still support child support laws. (though fuck alimony and fuck giving 100% custody to mothers).
She's a dimwit. Who the hell sleeps with punk musicians?
They were both stupid and they should both own their shit together and carry the cost.
TRP has published many, many articles that fatherless girls end up worse. It's accepted scientifically too. So yes, I would prefer prosperity over decline and I - as a member of society - want fathers and mothers to take responsibility. We should force them if necessary.
If you read the article, neither the mother nor girl wants money. Only the TRP 'hero' deadbeat dad is thinking money.
But I - again as a member of society - want him to pay up and own his shit.
I guarantee you that the dimwit mom is not rich. That means mom and child are probably being supported by taxpayers and charity.
I'd rather deadbeat dad be forced to own his shit so that taxpayers and charities can invest their money in the real problems, like orphans.
darkrood 8y ago
So, is it safe to say: "Free love is never free"?
free sex seems to be the most expensive
tudy77 8y ago
I've been lurking in this sub for quite some time and most of the posts I see provide really good information and present an interestingly different perspective.
I don't believe this is one of them, though. I agree with your view and I've done a bit of thinking: it's somewhat unfair that women get two "chances" of not having a child, one when they have sex and can use protection and the other when they find our they're pregnant and can have an abortion. Men only have one of those options and even though it's not really "fair", I think it's the way it should be. I can't see a moral way in which a man can have a veto on the choice of his former sex patenter to have an abortion. It's somewhat unfair but I guess it's one of those moments in life where it's just not fair and that's it. Fairness is a concept that we invented but biology and morals are in no way obliged to abide by that concept.
Some other commenter said something around the lines of "if women can have abortions, then men should also be able to financially abort a child" but I can't for the life of me find any justification for that. That "solution" does not deal with the problem that there is a human being in this world who exists as a consequence of your actions, while a real abortion does.
phrostbyt 8y ago
Thank you for being the voice of reason in this reddit circlejerk
confuseacatlmtd 8y ago
Yeah this post is really terrible. What is this guy's main point? The dude didn't know about the kid before so he has no obligation to take care of her? Or is he saying that men shouldn't have to take care of their family at all?
With the lack of accountability this guy wants for men, he's really coming off like the worst kind of feminists in reverse.
RedBigMan 8y ago
There are only 2 reasons women would contact a man after 15 years of staying the hell out of his life.
The first one is daughter needs a kidney, in which case they should have lead with that.
The second one is that they've hit a rough patch in terms of money and need some beta male provisioning. This would make sense since he said he was like 15 when this happened so mommy dearest would be hitting the wall pretty hard at this point and the girl makes an excellent way into his pocket that the court would even force on him if need be.
There seems to be a statute of limitations for a man to contest paternity. There should be a statute of limitations on a woman to assign paternity and/or collect child support.
Really if you cant understand how a man would think this way when his 15 year old daughter pops up on his facebook then you haven't been around here long enough to know that as a man you need to look out for #1 because noone else is going to be looking out for your best interests.
PS: Clearly she was able to raise the kid for 15 years without child support BUT if it goes to court it can (and likely would) assign child support retroactively since birth so imagine getting a bill for 15 years of child support showing up on your facebook page... That's pretty much what is happening here and the man is acting accordingly.
_ItNeverEndsDoesIt 8y ago
Don't blame the dude for the choices women make and the society feminism has created dude.
jinougaashu 8y ago
You are probably the only one making sense in this thread, a lot of people here just take posts on TRP as gosbel, without actually analyzing what's being said.
Man makes a mistake and fucks Bitch, Bitch gets pregnant, Baby Girl is born and Man wants nothing to do with it under the excuse of protecting his family and his money. Well fucktard, you shouldn't have got Bitch knocked up in the first place and now you have to fuckin support YOUR Baby Girl, its not rocket science.
As I first glanced this post I was furious because I thought the baby wasn't his and he was about to get fucked, then I actually started reading.
MagneticJohnson 8y ago
having an abortion is pretty quick and simple. this should have been the obvious solution to this situation 15 years ago. instead, we incentivize for a teen mom, who doesn't have the commitment from the father, to have the baby.
instead of incentivize for happy families, we incentivize for single mothers and children with deep issues.
darkrood 8y ago
He is just getting the 15 years delay kick in the nuts.
In a civilized society where men don't push women down the stairs,
women will decide whether or not a child will be born.
Now, I don't blame OP's choice to acknowledge this kid or not.
What I blame him is:
Let a young girl alone to determine whether a child will be born or not, which better or worst, is a kid making decision for another kid. Hence the seed of this shit show. If he really want the child be aborted, FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THAT SHIT. He gave the girl full trust on "doing the right thing as he said" without providing a coat hanger.
Mind you, this guy claimed to have MBA and is quite successful. However, his course of actions seem to scream other wise. The way he conveys the whole situation seems purposely give an indifferent tone to purposely piss the r/relationship redditors off.
SO....might be a really good troll?
jinougaashu 8y ago
I understand where you are coming from, and it is obvious that the fault is also (mostly) on the woman, but the girl is 15 years old, her issues are because her father wasn't there for her, I will never encourage him to pay child support for this kid unless she's living with him, but to completely and utterly ignore her like she's not your own blood? That's just messed up. All he has to do is tell her that she has a father that will help her emotionally and with everything else except for money, point made, legal repercussions alleviated, and everyone is happy.
[deleted] 8y ago
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.
QQ_L2P 8y ago
It doesn't matter if she's you're blood or not. Family is determined by people you trust, people who would go out of their way for you, while this is usually found in people with similar genetic information, it is not strictly limited to it. He has had no interaction with this woman and girl, he stated that he wanted an abortion and they went their separate ways.
This situation is very similar to something that this sub talks about a lot, releasing of paternal responsibilities is you want an abortion and the woman doesn't. He said he wanted an abortion, the mother didn't and had the kid and now the kid is approaching him for money. And what is the subs reaction? "Own up to your mistake, be a man hurr durr".
It's the same as if you remove paternal responsibility when the mother keeps the baby, do you stick to your guns and act like the kid never existed or do you bend over to her whim and whatever sense of duty was instilled in the man and become an unwilling provider.
The guy did what is best for him and his family, he put his kid, the kid he was involved with and wanted, first. He has no responsibility to that girl and he certainly has no responsibility to give her any money.
This is the hard reality of when people talk about legislation for the father giving up his paternal rights. There are going to be kids out there who are spurned and people out there who are going to insult you for not policing your brass. Written words saying "he is not your father" pale in comparison to the fact that you share an X or a Y chromosome and the innate biological drive to know your parents.
jinougaashu 8y ago
What you said would've been true if he actually gave his daughter sometime to prove if she is trust worthy or not, what I understood was that she reached out before and he blocked her, she reached out again and he blocked her again. She's 15, she's a kid, whatever she said was probably because she's an angry teen that "hates life because she doesn't have a father or a mother that love her". Her mom must have fed her with all kinds of bs about her father and of course she's going to have an attitude when she talks with him, like I said, don't give the girl any money, that will actually make things worse, just take her to lunch, talk to her, let her know she has a father. He can't wish her to go away, he made a mistake and he has to own up to it.
QQ_L2P 8y ago
Does it really matter? Her first thought about approaching him was posting on instagram:
"Niiiice. A toddler gets a Mercedes and your first born dont get anything" [sic].
The first thing out of her mouth to the father who she has never met is "look at what he has, I want it too! Give me things of significant monetary value" (note, she says Mercedes, not "car"). That's all anyone needs to know. That's what this entire situation is about, money.
He made it clear when the mother said she was pregnant that he didn't want anything to do with it in no uncertain terms, the mother had the baby anyway and now he has to pony up cash to a baby he explicitly stated he didn't want? Fuck that. The kid got dealt a hand of cards at birth, a hand where her mother decided to have her without her father in the picture. He has nothing to own up to. He wasn't even aware of the existence of this child till the online messages.
So now what, because the mother has kept the child he's supposed to "man up" and be her father. You realise that this is the same thing people get pissed about on here with regards to child support? Father doesn't want a child, mother gets pregnant and keeps it and locks in for the child support. He doesn't have to wish her away, he made it clear that he didn't want her and walked away from the relationship 16 years ago. That's it. As far as he is concerned, that child may as well be another begger clawing at his purse strings. Just because she exists doesn't mean he has any responsibility to her.
We always talk about this situation on here, well here is the real world result. So what happens? At the drop of a hat everyone charges to chastise the dude because the mother decided to keep the child without telling him and expects him to be her provider now that she has reared her head.
What a joke, lol.
razorwan 8y ago
It's kind of funny, from a legal perspective. Kids are the genetic property of both parents, yet due to biological functions that one parent was born with, she has all the cards just because she carried around the kid for 9 months. It really goes to show how perverse feminism has gotten, to infiltrate its way into law.
PlayerXz 8y ago
2000 years ago it was exactly the other way around. The father had ownership of the baby. He was the one who created the baby after all, his seed was the child. The woman just served as a tool to develop those few cells into an actual living baby.
People tend to think we have come a long way since then, but instead of equality we have just moved to the other end of the chart. Nowadays the mother has complete ownership of the baby. In a way this is even worse than 2000 years ago. Back then the father provided for the baby but at least in return had a pretty big say in what happened to the child. Whereas now the father has no say whatsoever in what happens to the child but is still forced by law to provide financially for the child.
Neither ways is fair and something has to be done about this. A father and a mother are both important to the children in their own unique ways and therefore should both have an equal say in what happens to the child.
Let's say a man and a woman have sex and the woman becomes pregnant unintended. Then they should both sit down and discuss if they want to keep the child or not. You can't force a woman to get an abortion, but you shouldn't be forced to pay child support if you don't want to keep the child.
Just one last thing that stung me about this story:
Basically the bare minimum means paying for everything in the eyes of a woman.
Sdom1 8y ago
And the funny thing is that is not what the kid needs most. She's not bitching about college tuition, ya know?
RedBigMan 8y ago
2000 years ago? Try like 200 years ago... hell as little as 100 years ago the courts would assign custody to the father as a rule rather than the mother.
Look at what happened to society in the last 100 years of active feminism. Something needs to change and it's not men.
Moldy_Gecko 8y ago
Except it's the child, not the mother, reaching out.
razorwan 8y ago
Which has fuckall to do with the statement you're responding to.
Moldy_Gecko 8y ago
It does, because not once in the whole damn post did he use her more than a reference. While I agree feminism has infiltrated the law (and has for many years). But, what the fuckall did your statement actually have to do with the post? The child made contact, the child harassed, the mother, child support, etc. weren't even mentioned by the child.
razorwan 8y ago
My response was to RPthrowaway's post in the comments regarding a man's (lack of) say in abortion, not directly to the OP's thread. Not to sound demeaning, but are you new to reddit's format?
Moldy_Gecko 8y ago
I don't get why the Mom is brought up nor the money issue. The daughter (The only one to contact the man) didn't ask for money. The Mother didn't ask for money. Sure, people in the thread said to give her money, but that has no bearing on the mother or daughter's view. I mean, I agree with the perversion of feminism and the law, but I don't see where this tangent is going except beating a dead horse.
And no, I've been on reddit for a very long time. Is your account a throwaway?
razorwan 8y ago
So you took the second paragraph, which had nothing to do with what I said, as what I was replying to? No-- just to be clear, it was this:
You don't need too much context to understand that this was the only thing relevant to what I was saying. So before you question why someone brings up something like genetic property into the discussion, try looking at what is being referred to. It's not a tangent at all, and in fact, it could be argued right back into OP's discussion. The father is being selectively held responsible for his genetic property, while being denied the rights to the property in the first place.
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farnsworth_esq 8y ago
To back you up, from a legal prospective, this man has zero obligations to this child. It was on the mother to petition the court for child support. She didn't. End of discussion. No obligations are owed by this man.
occupythekitchen 8y ago
yes but the law is not on his side, he gives her a car (which is probably what she wants) then he sets a standard of being able to afford this, then they can go after him for 15 years of missed child support and jail him. The law is what is making him have to not have any obligation not his own moral.
TheHeroReditDeserves 8y ago
Ill say it again if they were not on welfare he might get off ok but if they were hes gonna be in deep shit.
LeFlamel 8y ago
I disagree. It's the enforcement of accountability that permits sluts to be sluts. Hell it fucking encourages it. Why the heck would a knocked up chick even bother with an abortion if she can have the kid and know that the father is going to be forced by law to take care of it? The same child support laws that incentivize divorce rape also enable this shit. Zero accountability environments have the paradoxical effect of making people more accountable. If chicks have the right to withdraw maternal investment via abortion, guys should be just as free to withdraw paternal investment.
RedBigMan 8y ago
There are women who you know have the abortion because they know Deadbeat Dan can't and won't ever improve in life and will never be able to get a decent job to pay a decent amount of child support.
Of course before that happens she'll try to pin the paternity on Beta Benny.
NidStyles 8y ago
Exactly. Accountability is not something a society can enforce, because once it does, it extracts that accountability and projects it onto someone else. It essentially invalidates itself.
FUBARtheinsane 8y ago
Your comment was the diamond in the rough :D
RPthrowaway123 8y ago
Oh I understand that. I don't want a zero-accountability world, quite the opposite. It just pisses me off that these bitches can support such an obvious double standard. But that's my logic talking again!
NidStyles 8y ago
Accountability is nonsense though. How do you hold a person accountable for the choices of another? You can't without plainly violating the idea and concept of accountability.
1independentmale 8y ago
No, he doesn't. Especially not the way she's acting. This girl is almost a legal adult. She reached out to him in the shittiest way possible. Her mother has likely spent the entirety of her 15 years running this man down and blaming him for all of their problems. Whatever relationship they may have been able to cultivate is permanently broken, poisoned from the moment that child was born. The girl will never respect him and will continue to act like an entitled little cunt toward him
Would you hand out money to an entitled little cunt who treats you like shit and wants nothing to do with you? I sure as fuck wouldn't. Not even my own daughter. I can say this with absolute certainty because I do have a teenage daughter, I did raise her and care for her and have spent more money on her than anyone ever has or will, and yet she decided about a year ago to follow in her mother's (my ex wife's) footsteps and began treating me like shit. I gave her multiple warnings that her behavior wouldn't be tolerated, then I kicked her ass out of my home and cut her off. I'll always love her, but I won't reward her pissy attitude.
You don't have an obligation to put up with shitty behavior from anyone. Not your friends, nor your family and definitely not your children.
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Hideydid 8y ago
In this case, his behavior is by far the more shitty because he's a father who never contributed to the development of his own child, so her issues are his own failure.
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1independentmale 8y ago
Get the fuck out of here with your "fucktard" bullshit. That's not how you talk to people and I won't engage you in a discussion if you're going to resort to insults.
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KyfhoMyoba 8y ago
Nope. He has obligations to his legitimate children. A woman wants to have a kid out of wedlock? The kid is her problem, no one elses. No marriage contract? No support.
This is how you stop out of wedlock births and single motherhood.
merodiaj 8y ago
OK, but then as a father I want the right to have any man arrested who dare defile my daughter without wedding her.
It's a two way street. No marriage contract? No sex.
That was Marriage 1.0
It was created by fathers and it was fathers who made it work.
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[deleted] 8y ago
You mean we stop incentivizing and subsidizing behavior we don't like? But misogyny!
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weiry6922 8y ago
Your first comment was good, no need for that "fucking retard" shit. We don't play that.
How do you know it's just the daughter though. It seems suspicious to me. I feel like the mother has to be getting some benefit from it, like not wanting to pay for whatever it is she wants. She's never contacted him before which makes me think maybe she didn't know who he was before, and now she needs something expensive the mother has handed over his contact details.
Kid asks mum for a car, mum doesn't want to keep giving out money now her wants are becoming more expensive, tries to exploit dad for cash.
Ojisan1 8y ago
It's not whether the mom is a cunt or not. It's that he had no say in the birth, it wasn't equal. Since the decision rested solely with the mom, so does the responsibility.
If we lived in a world where abortion was illegal, you might have an argument. If the mother consulted with the father, then you might have an argument. But the woman had a choice, she made it without the man's involvement, he should not be held to account for it.
You also ignored the valid point made above regarding adoption. If the mother chose to give the child up for adoption, nobody would be claiming that the kid can show up on her doorstep 15 years later and start making demands of the mother for her money and other assets.
Edit: seeing your "fucktard" comments further down ITT, I regret taking you seriously enough to reply to you, but I'll leave it here anyway because I took the time to write it.
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Ojisan1 8y ago
You truly are worthless. Whiny bitch? Ok tough guy.
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NidStyles 8y ago
You're wrong because none of your crap fits the topic of this sub, which is the red pill. There is no morality involved in any of this.
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NidStyles 8y ago
Morality is some shit made up by the Catholic church some ~500 years ago.
The Red Pill has nothing to do with morality, it's about virtue, which means self-worth in real world application. Build your virtue through self-improvement, and therefore have a higher value in social exchanges. Morality has dick to do with any of this.
My_Post_Is_On_Topic 8y ago
Your first statement "you're fucking retarded" is unnecessary, it's better to converse level-headedly. But the main issue was the fact that this daughter could very well be not his, or even a fake profile. She contacted him solely for money, and when he declined to give it, she threw a tantrum. He did the smart thing and blocked her, but I'm expecting the next update to include her finding his phone number and calling in an attempt to extort money from him.
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My_Post_Is_On_Topic 8y ago
I recommend to converse with someone without insulting them. You don't actually need to constantly posture in a discussion. It's actually beneficial to attack the argument instead of attacking the author.
Essentially, condescension does nothing to improve the discussion, and usually results in the other person immediately going on the defensive. It may be a key reason why you were downvoted.
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zyk0s 8y ago
Why? Because of rules of morality? Whose morality? We have abandoned all rules of morality for women, how do you suggest we hold women accountable? They can abort or abandon as they see fit, and the social climate is pushing hard to make sure every single weed of criticism and non-compliance to that imperative is pulled out and shamed.
Philosophically, perhaps it is better to hold everyone accountable, and I do believe that throwing away personal responsibility can only hurt a society. However, practically speaking, there is nothing you can do to hold women accountable, so if you stubbornly maintain men's accountability, you're just keeping the status quo and the unfairness of the current situation.
Accept that men will simply stop caring, eschew their responsibility, and you'll start enjoying the decline. That's, perhaps paradoxically, the best way to return to a social enforcement of personal responsibility for everyone: abandon it, and let everyone realize how fucked the situation becomes when men start behaving as women have.
merodiaj 8y ago
FTFY.
Women are held accountable for children. If you don't take proper care of them, CPS will take them away from you.
So yes, dads should be held accountable too. Both financially and as parents. There are already enough girls wandering around with daddy issues.
zyk0s 8y ago
Yes, CPS takes them away and the parents (this one applies to both genders) don't have to care for them anymore. So in effect, no responsibility.
But that's not what we're talking about, this is specifically about the gap between the options of women who don't want to be a parent (abortion, adoption, abandonment) vs those of men (none).
RedBigMan 8y ago
I'm willing to bet if CPS gave out statistics that a vast majority of the 'take the child away' situations would be against men too.
As for girls running around with daddy issues. The kid hasn't been in his life for 15 years. Showing up for the last 4 years before she becomes a legal adult isn't going to change the course her mother already set her on... and that course is probably directly to the Cock Carousel. If I was the father I sure as shit wouldn't want to have to watch that and have my heart break every time my offspring took another chad's dick and ends up with half a dozen pregnancy scares by the time she's 21.
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cariboo_j 8y ago
Unequal reproductive rights complicate things.
In the West, women have complete control over their reproduction. Hormonal birth control, on demand abortions and adoption. Abortion and adoption basically allow them to abdicate any responsibility for unwanted children. Sure, men have condoms, but they have no equivalent option of completely abdicating responsibility for unwanted children. Furthermore, women can terminate a pregnancy or give the child away with or without the consent of the father. This is important.
I think men need an equivalent method of abdicating responsibility for unwanted children. Maybe they could sign some document where they permanently renounce all claims to custody or rights to visitation, but also any obligations for child support. If women don't want to raise a child by themselves, well they can use their FEMALE PRIVILEGE of abortion/adoption.
Right now women can say "I'm pregnant, I'm keeping it whether you like it or not, and you're on the hook for 18 years of child support." They can also say "I'm pregnant and I'm aborting it / giving it away for adoption whether you like it or not, you'll never meet this child." They have all the options and all the power. These days there's really no excuse for an unwanted pregnancy anyways.
I could see holding men responsible for supporting unwanted children if women were truly stuck with them. But women have so many options... using the state to hold a man responsible is just one of many. They can easily use their female privilege to make the problem go away without involving the man.
tudy77 8y ago
I agree with you that this is an unfair situation, where the female has way more choices than the man, but I don't agree with the unfounded assumption that it should be fair. Biology and medicine have given women more options, yes, but do you really see a moral way in which a man could have a veto in the choice of his former sex patenter to have an abortion? I don't. It is unfair, but biology and indeed life in general have no obligation to be fair to us.
If a woman chooses abortion, the problem is gone. If a man however chooses "financial abortion", there will still be a child out there who potentially suffers that only exists as a consequence of his (and her) actions, so the two "options" are not really comparable IMO.
I haven't thought much about adoption, I'm not from the US and I don't know how the law works there so I don't have an opinion on that.
It's a very complicated moral situation, but I don't think it's responsible to just say "if the woman has more options out of a situation like this, then men must also be given more" if they are not equivalent in terms of the consequences.
cariboo_j 8y ago
That's the word I was looking for, financial abortion.
The possibility of men opting out would discourage accidental pregnancies. It would definitely take away any incentive for deceptive "accidental" pregnancies, ie the woman "forgetting" her birth control and railroading the man into being a father.
Also since the woman can unilaterally decide to terminate the fetus I think it's fair to give men the option of unilaterally terminating any financial obligations, under certain circumstances. Like maybe only in the first trimester so as to give the woman a fair chance to decide if she wants to carry the pregnancy to term without the support of the father.
I'm not suggesting we give men veto power over women's choice to have an abortion. But I think we should give men the option of walking away under a limited set of circumstances. I think it would discourage a lot of irresponsible and exploitative behavior on the part of females.
OR a way to circumvent all these moral grey areas would be vasalgel. That way men would really have no excuse for accidentally getting a girl knocked up. I think these days there is an excuse because of women having so many more effective birth control options.
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blue_27 8y ago
I am adopted. My mother and father are the people who adopted me. The sperm and egg donor owe me nothing. I hold no ill will towards them, but we are completely separate entities.
What you say is incorrect.
EDIT: In fact, my parents don't owe me shit.
zyk0s 8y ago
I ask you again, why? And why apply it only to men in that case? You might very well say "well I think it should apply to women", I'm sure that will help.
It's harsh on the kid, sure, but "what's best for the children" is what got us into this mess. Women fuck up, then "let's do what's best for the children" and you have men compelled to fix stuff up. Wife decides to divorce? "Best for the children" and the man has to pay and gets to see them every second weekend. Got cuckolded? "Best for the children" and you have to keep paying for those kids too.
It's not a fix, it's a band-aid solution that just cements those attitudes and makes it harder on everyone in the long run.
And spare us all your moralizing. I don't recognize your moral code, it has no authority beyond that of some guy on the internet. "The child has a natural right to his father", but not his mother, correct? And only in cases when he hasn't been given up for adoption? Give me a fucking break.
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NidStyles 8y ago
Aww,, your fweelings are hurt.
Women wanted no responsibility, so now they have it. Guess what, men don't need it either then. Fuck your TradCon bullshit.
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TheHeroReditDeserves 8y ago
Im just curious. If she decided to kill him in a fit of pique that would be ok too right? I mean morality doesn't apply and I see no practical issue in getting rid of my dead weight father if he provided no use to me other then the satisfaction Id get from killing him.
zyk0s 8y ago
You'd probably have a point if it was now legal to kill people. But it isn't, that law is enforced for both men and women (albeit women get off much more easily for it than men, but that's a different topic).
NidStyles 8y ago
Aww, I did hit a nerve, didn't I?
TheHeroReditDeserves 8y ago
not really actually I'm just taking your point to its ridiculous logical conclusion. After thinking about it for a while I actually believe that the OP of that thread is just havin a giggle. OP might be describing a real situation but on the other hand you have to admit the whole thing is a bit TOO perfect for generating rage and triggering feels.
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Interversity 8y ago
DON'T TONE POLICE ME BLUE PILL SHEEP
terranovatn 8y ago
I think what really gets me is the abortion thing. If he wants the abortion, and she doesn't, he shouldn't be responsible. If she's taking it upon herself to keep the child and he doesn't want to be a father then why the hell is he responsible. Of course we all know the answer to this, the feminists, the women saying he's horrible for knocking her up and "gasp" having the nerve to ask for an abortion! This man did a very good job of protecting himself and hopefully his situation doesn't turn ugly.
zenkibudo 8y ago
A couple posters have dogged you for misrepresenting the situation -- saying the kid never asked for money, etc.
I think yours was a fair assertion, and this comment allegedly made by the kid (taken from that dude's archived post) surely implies it like all fucking get out:
Immanent financial request/demand is a foregone prognosis, imo. Some scholarly may argue that her alleged comment in itself constitutes a (belligerent) request, and I'd be inclined to somewhat agree. Other indicators are probly there in the archives too, for the willing and perceptive.
Only caveat: that dude's whole post may be a scam, just to rile a few emotionally inclined souls. If that's so, he succeeded enormously. I'm on the fencepost with it...
Sheeni_curse 8y ago
You guys are missing the point. Everyone is raging because he's an absent father (not a deadbeat, the mother obviously didn't want any financial support or contact, good for her) that is looking for sympathy that his abandoned child is pissed at him.
As the son of an absent-ish father, the only part that pissed me off is that he's scared about his money but played it off as if he felt attacked by a 15 year old. All men's rights issues aside, the mom did right by the father for not going after his money, the daughter is rightfully pissed, and the dad is a greedy flake.
makethemsayayy 8y ago
The way child support is, call me a greedy flake.
[deleted] 8y ago
"A fool and his money are soon parted."
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nofaprecommender 8y ago
Dude, wtf are you doing? Paying attention to the whole story? FOH with that noise. That's just your logic hamster spinning bruh.
Venicedreaming 8y ago
Damn right! He is a coward. Both the mom and dad screwed up, but the child is innocent. Tough luck for the girl. Now she will grow up like her mom pumped and dumped. At the end of it, his own offspring is suffering and he could care less. Meanwhile the rest of us are picking up the tab for his mistake
nages21 8y ago
He might not be a greedy flake, just a guy with a family who doesn't want something from his past to disturb his white-picket-fence life. Though he's an absent father, the mother did not try to involve him in the daughter's life; it's really not his problem.
Cloughtower 8y ago
By your logic, women should be able to slut it up in their 20's without detriment to future married life.
Sdom1 8y ago
White picket fence life? He is already divorced from that woman, and just gets visitation with his son. Nothing white picket fence about that. He's just a huge turd.
vandaalen 8y ago
No. You need to understand that it is always the child who is entitled to support. Regardless of wether the child stays with the mother or the father, the parent is only managing the child's assets as long as the child isn't of age.
This dude fucked up all on his own when he knocked up the woman. It doesn't matter, what actions the mother took. What did he do to maintain contact? And I don't mean just calling or stuff. The child is also entitled to contact to both parents, as well as a father is entitled to contact to his kids, and you can go to court over it to claim your rights.
Guys like these are the reason why we have to deal with shit like having to go to jail if you fail to pay child support.
The girl did not ask to be put into this world and it is his fucking responsibility to pay if he can pay.
This asshole just feels disturbed in the world he has built himself and is also a greedy fuck for trying to get his assets out of the way.
I have no sympathy for such decals of a man. In fact: Fuck him. I hope he gets himself a new asshole ripped.
nages21 8y ago
Personally, I think you're right from a moral standpoint, but that doesn't change the facts of what actually happened. The mother chose not to get an abortion to his dismay, she did not label him as the father, she did not contact him and he's currently not legally obligated to pay child support. He didn't even know the kid existed a few months ago and he still doesn't know whether it's his. The mother chose to bear that burden, so once again: it not his problem.
-rubashov 8y ago
So for every one night stand you have, you make sure you stay in touch with them, check in every so often for 9 months to see if they are pregnant.
I see.. congrats for you but I personally have better things to do.
vandaalen 8y ago
For every ONS I make sure that I wear a condom and sure as fuck I would never blast my load into strange unknown :pussy.
[deleted] 8y ago
Do you think a woman has the right to give up her child for adoption? If a woman gives up her child for adoption, do you think that she has a responsibility to the child, financially, emotionally, or otherwise?
1independentmale 8y ago
That's a great point. Giving a child up for adoption is perfectly legal, even celebrated, and the mother has zero rights or responsibilities to the child after this is done.
Why can't a man decide to give his child up for adoption to its mother, thereby relinquishing his rights and responsibilities? That's effectively what happened here. Guy said "I don't want it", girl kept it anyway, now 15 years later the kid he's never met is pissed and everyone is up in arms, calling him a worthless deadbeat. Yet if the mother had chosen adoption, these same people would be singing praises from the rooftops about what a strong, empowered woman she is.
Double standard much?
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fittitthroway 8y ago
Holy fuck are you serious? The mother did NOT contact him for years, did NOT pursue support, did NOT keep him in the loop, did NOT FUCKING CLAIM HE WAS THE DAD. It is in HER it is HER actions. You do not get to go SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER 15 years later trying to get some sweet $$$ after doing that.
vandaalen 8y ago
How is any of that the child's fault?
fittitthroway 8y ago
You said "the dude fucked up all on his own"
merodiaj 8y ago
Exactly.
What people here miss is: because this guy isn't paying for his own actions, we, the taxpayers, will be subsidizing this girl.
And I'm not just talking welfare. As a society we give all kind of other benefits to low income families: low income housing, lower income taxes, scholarships, etc. And there are the opportunity costs: the money he spends on a Mercedes could have been invested in this child's education, which would benefit society as a whole down the line.
I don't know about the U.S., but in Europe and Australia people actually commit welfare fraud by pretending the father is unknown. I'm sure it happens in the U.S. too.
Bottom line: I support mandatory paternity testing and parents being held financially responsible for the children they create.
1independentmale 8y ago
What about the mother? She chose to have the child and lied about giving it up for adoption. She is every bit as responsible for this mess, if not more so. Why the hell is she having and raising children she can't afford? Where's your outrage for her actions?
Education is "free" in this country, unless you're suggesting he has an obligation to fund a college education for an adult child, in which case I'm going to politely suggest that you've lost your fucking mind.
To have parents willing to pay for your college is a very nice thing, but college students are adults and that education directly benefits their future prospects. Parents are under no obligation to finance this education and very few do. To suggest this man is a bad person because he used the money he earned through hard work and sacrifice to buy himself a nice car instead of financing the post secondary education of a girl who hates every fiber of his being... That's nuts, man. I don't give a damn if she is his daughter. The girl can get herself a job and put herself through college just like I and countless other adults did.
merodiaj 8y ago
So if she gets a scholarship and an actually poor Johnny doesn't get one, you think that's fair?
Here in the west, both parents are equally responsible for children. I never said the mother wasn't.
Want to see a society where only mothers are accountable? Go to Africa.
I very much prefer what we have, thank you very much.
1independentmale 8y ago
No, it's not fair, but life isn't fair. There are many children who will never attend college due to unfortunate circumstances in their lives. Some of us are more privileged than others. That's life, man. I don't think forcing bio-dads to foot the college tuition bill is okay. What's next, he has to buy her a car, too?
(when I saw your comment, the score was 0. I felt you expressed your position politely, so even though we disagree, I bumped you back up.)
merodiaj 8y ago
I didn't say life is fair, but please follow your own logic.
The thing that makes us civilized and prosperous (versus Africa) is that we try to mold society to get better outcomes for all.
It might not be fair to force a rich bio-dad to drive a less expensive car (a deprecating asset) and invest in the human capital (an appreciating asset) that carries half his DNA, but society benefits.
Both directly - the girl is more likely to be more productive than otherwise - and indirectly, since taxpayers and charities now have more resources to invest in other worthwhile efforts, such as poor Johnny (opportunity cost).
1independentmale 8y ago
We don't disagree on the big picture. "Society benefits" rings true; it is better if everyone has the opportunity to get a college education, buy a car and so on. However, I find "make the dad pay for it" far too socialist for my tastes.
Child support is one thing, assuming the mother can demonstrate a need I support that. I have kids, I pay my child support on time every time and while I have strong opinions on the amount of support mandated and total lack of accountability as to how it gets spent, I wouldn't deny there's a need here. That said, the state needs to start demanding these baby mamas find a source of income and contribute to raising their kids instead of saddling the father with everything while mama sits on her fat ass sipping $8 lattes and doing fuck all.
What this country needs for success are economic policies that encourage a healthy job market and ample opportunity for anyone who is willing to put in a little effort. Everyone in this country should have the ability to get a job that pays enough to put themselves through a decent state college. I know that isn't reality for most kids, as minimum wage and college tuition just don't work together, but I'd much rather see this problem fixed vs. just stealing the money from daddy and handing it to an overpriced college all so his dim witted daughter can ride the college cock carousel, graduate with a 2.0 gpa in some nonsense degree and avoid taking financial responsibility for herself for an additional 4 plus years. Let's make it possible for every newly minted 18yo to help himself become successful instead of playing Robin Hood with daddy's money.
Sheeni_curse 8y ago
He is greedy; when this girl started to contact him, he ran to a family lawyer to see if he was culpable for child support. Family? Three year old son he probably sees on weekends. He's a flake, that's not up for debate. He's greedy because when his daughter stuck a toe back in his life, his question wasn't how he should approach the situation without hurting his daughter further, but how can he minimize his liability? Why stick up for this guy? He's not doing anything morally or legally wrong, but he's still kind of a douche.
TheHeroReditDeserves 8y ago
If they were on welfare at any point and hes the father hes gona get crucified in court
Dark_Shroud 8y ago
I honestly hope this guy is trolling just to screw with these people. Just watching these people freakout at the idea that he doesn't feel anything let alone responsibility for the child he never knew existed.
But again this is the reality because men do not get a choice in abortions.
Let's see if Planned Parenthood offers Vasalgel.
happeningpodcast 8y ago
This guy is a goddamm sociopath and all you degenerate faggots supporting him deserve to be hanged. That girl did nothing to deserve to be treated like that. She needs a father in her life.
Sdom1 8y ago
He's definitely a functional sociopath. Seemingly fine on the surface, but no empathy whatsoever.
[deleted] 8y ago
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happeningpodcast 8y ago
The guy had a chance to make things right.
He didn't.
Stop trying to find someone to blame and see his flaws for what they are.
[deleted] 8y ago
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happeningpodcast 8y ago
Not saying she is immune you dense motherfucker.
If you can't see what a tremendous asshole this guy is being, you've been drinking the TRP kool-aid for too long and just get a rush from being a cruel degenerate faggot. Go outside.
[deleted] 8y ago
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happeningpodcast 8y ago
I'm not talking about laws and courts here you pedantic bitch. The girl is his daughter and she wanted a father in her life. He said no and crudely and cruelly dismisses her. It's cold-blooded and sick. Stop quibbling about "the rules" like a bureaucratic kike.
[deleted] 8y ago
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happeningpodcast 8y ago
No, he's not legally required.
But...
And this has zero to do with the stupid slut of a mother...
But to turn away your progeny when they want you in their life is dishonorable and immoral. I know degenerate "PUA" fucks like you don't know what that means, so look it up.
[deleted] 8y ago
Simple advice wrap it up and flush it afterwards.
BattleDrillOneAlpha 8y ago
Honestly, the guy was a dumb ass when he was younger. He was immature and decided that the "out of sight, out of mind" approach was better than knowing for sure that the kid is his or even if the kid was born. Now he has to deal with the consequences.
With that being said, if you read the first post, you will know why these women hate him so much and aren't giving him any advice before telling him that he is a shit father for his 3 year old son. He was the "douchebag" rocker that a lot of these chicks fell for and got dumped by, or the archetype of the guys they all wanted to hate. He epitomizes everything that these Reddit crusaders have conditioned themselves to not like.
Being that it is the Relationships sub, it is full of females that love "sorting out" these problems. They all seem to forget the mother's role. She was a groupie for a shitty rock band that never made it; that tells you something about her. While the OP made mistakes, the mother also made some big mistakes by never contacting OP again, even after he said he didn't want anything to do with a kid at that time. She still should have told him that the baby was in fact born and that he needed to sign the birth certificate or w/e. She should have made sure that he knew and was liable to for support.
Instead the mother probably sulked and said "woe is me". She probably had religious convictions or something that stopped her from getting an abortion, so she had the child. Rationalizing that the OP didn't want anything to do with the child after the initial shock and awe conversation they had, she never went to him. The mother spins that story for 15 years, it is now the father's fault 100%, and you know have a teenage girl that only knows what the mother said of him.
Both sides did wrong. But I think it is insensitive and stupid for the people in that sub to act like OP is somehow a terrible father or selfish. All he wants is for his current family to function. He should confront this situation head on, get a paternity test, keep seeing his lawyer, and deal with any consequences because really that is the only thing that will settle this.
NakedAndBehindYou 8y ago
Or more likely, she went looking for beta bucks, because she knew that OP was alpha fucks who would never take care of the kid.
new_alpha 8y ago
Yeah, he's acting exactly like the women we describe here. "It was my past!! I'm not to blame"
I don't know what the fuck is happening to the red pill, but people here are angry because we can't do the same women do, that's not the point. Women do this stupid thing of running away from their responsibility, it is not right and we shouldn't do the same thing, it's not because they are wrong and society let them be wrong without consequences that we should bitch that we can't do the same.
This guy should be responsible for his mistake and stop bitching. That's it
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cariboo_j 8y ago
If she wanted child support she should have hit him up from the very start.
The guy would have had a chance to plan his finances and life accordingly.
Showing up and saying "surprise!" 15 years later puts him in an unfair position.
anomanderrape 8y ago
If he adopts a fatherly role at this point, he could get screwed and set up for years of backlog of child support. Who's to say the mom isn't engineering this and getting her daughter to play at his symathies?
Chinkibus 8y ago
Everyone is attacking this guy for not giving money to a stranger. You don't give money to every stranger that calls you a dick on the internet
Ayy_1mao 8y ago
It's absolutely unreal. They're attacking a guy who:
And now because he has built his own life elsewhere and the mother has reneged on several promises (lying about the adoption, obviously letting the father's information slip to the daughter which she couldn't wait to do until she was 18 and more mature, presumably because she was dumped by whoever she was with), he's obligated to do something? The people telling him that his toddler will be fucked up because he's a douchebag are really something else. Even if she is his own daughter he has zero obligation to either of them, especially if it endangers the family he actually built.
Chinkibus 8y ago
I agree but all i had to say was fuck em. Kindling a relationship and him deciding to help is one thing. no matter how entitled women are, if you verbally assault a man demanding his money you're getting a no. I would say this but I've been banned from relationship for uttering the auto ban phrase "you should check out the red pill"
_ItNeverEndsDoesIt 8y ago
Anyone else catch the part wherein some woman says it's his child, and everyone automatically takes her side and shits on OP? My question is WHERE'S THE DNA TEST?
Sdom1 8y ago
He said she bears a strong resemblence to him. Sure, get a DNA test, but it sounds like she's probably his.
Trail_of_Jeers 8y ago
A whole lot of morality shaming in this thread.
Look, he earned that money, he earned his life. Squirting a load inbsome woman's vagoo does not obligate you to raise the twat spawn. She wants to keep it, great. It's her responsibility. Her body, her choice.
He doesn't want to be connected to that. His wallet, his choice.
truthiesttruth 8y ago
The situation sucks.
Assuming its not a scam:
I would not want my genetic offspring struggling, but at the same time the bitch he knocked up willfully chose to exclude him from the childs life, that includes financially. I dont buy that 'pay to raise the kid but gtfo if you actually want anything more to do with it' mentality society has granted women. He should have the right to sue mother cunt, shes the only person in this situation that deserves hate.
Then again it is team womyn over in that shitdump subreddit, so I am not surprised.
If it is a scam: lols.
zenkibudo 8y ago
Thanks for highlighting that little detail. It's the first 'step back and take a deep breath' marker. There are others, and mentioned here by other posters, but this one trumps all.
gggh0st 8y ago
Fuck that either way. He wanted an abortion. A man should never have to support a woman who disregarded his wishes like that. I wish there were a legal precedence for this.
Belvorus 8y ago
I personally have had thoughts on this, I am an older married guy too, that if we want true equality men should be allowed to have a "financial abortion" before a child is born if they are not married to the woman. It will never happen, but I think that would be a sign that the culture valued man's lives. Of course the need goes out the window with male contraception.
merodiaj 8y ago
If guys are allowed to financially abort children, then taxpayers and charities will have to foot the bill.
Look at the ghettos. Look at the Brazilian favelas. Look at Africa. That's how society will end up.
It sucks for the individual men, but it's good for society. I do think, if you have to pay, you have just as much right to be involved in raising the child, unless you're a total screw-up (e.g. drug addict)
MagneticJohnson 8y ago
no, it will mean there would be more abortions and women being more careful with protection. a fine of some sorts, which he pays to her, would be enough.
anomanderrape 8y ago
The mother didn't contact him for 15 years. If she is his daughter, he already missed out on the most pivotal years of her life and on raising her. At this point he's nothing more than a sperm donor, so he owes them nothing. If they want him to pay up, they should have atleast tried to involve him as a father when she was born. He owes her nothing. The only link he has with her is genetic material by chance. Are the women in /r/relationships next going to demand that all sperm donors pay up? I'm sure they will one day.
spicedncoke 8y ago
Not that I am defending her or anything, but keep in mind this is pre-fb. It was much more difficult to get a hold of someone then than now. I remember having an uncle and I didn't see him for over 10 years because of divorce...and I met him again because of his son through FB.
That said, the fact that there's no paternity test present is telling too...I'm curious if someone else is paying for that child?
RPthrowaway123 8y ago
If his name isn't on the birth certificate (which he doesn't mention but if he didn't even know she existed then it makes sense) why would he be obligated to pay for her?
SleepNowMyThrowaway 8y ago
Why? Because America.
Seriously - nothing matters in this Earth other than:
1 * A woman is in need
2 * A man is, even if tangentially related, responsible to hand her money.
And since money is earned by exchanging your life, he is required by our fucked up system to hand her his life.
He is slave to her, and the state.
GuitarHero07 8y ago
The OP provided an update. He consulted with an attorney who informed him that he could not be held liable for back child support because he never acted in a fatherly role and was not named as the father. If a paternity test proves he is the father, he could be on the hook for child support going forward though. I'm not sure about how it is in California but in NY you have to pay until the "child" is 21.
spicedncoke 8y ago
Even worse, some states/provinces you have to pay until the child is done post-secondary education (i.e. first degree/diploma).
1independentmale 8y ago
In some states you have to pay for the "child's" college education, too. That can put you on the hook for huge money until the "child" is 24. It's called "post secondary educational support" and it ought to be illegal.
RedBigMan 8y ago
I'm surprised someone hasn't challenged it in an actual court of justice. After the child has hit the age of majority (18) you shouldn't be forced to continue a relationship with said child because they're now a fully responsible and legal adult.
RPthrowaway123 8y ago
So a paternity test could put a man back on the hook, but it can't take him off the hook when the kid isn't his? Real nice.
zyk0s 8y ago
The law follows what /u/Denswend remarked above. It's not about principles of the nature of fatherhood, but how to rationalize the need for particular men to pay.
GuitarHero07 8y ago
Yup, that's exactly right. In most jurisdictions, you only have a limited amount of time to contest paternity. Beyond that, you're on the hook regardless of whether or not you are the biological father. That's the case even if you were the victim of paternity fraud.
In France, it is illegal to even test your kid in the interests of "protecting the cohesion of the family."
MagneticJohnson 8y ago
if I'm ever in France banging a married chick, remind me to not use a rubber.
trp_ta 8y ago
Could he refuse to participate in a paternity test? Without a court order, obviously he could. With one, what is the typical consequence for contempt of court? And, can paternity be ruled even without a paternity test?
GuitarHero07 8y ago
If the court orders a test he had to take it or he will be held in contempt and he could possibly be jailed. He could also be presumed to be the father and a child support order would be issued. Fortunately for him, it doesn't look like he owes back child support.
trp_ta 8y ago
Ok, so he spends a night or two in jail. I'd rather that than 5+ years of child support. Personally, I'd take a few sick days from work, or do community service or something.
Could he really be presumed the father for refusing a paternity test? I don't think so. Without evidence, I don't think that would be legal, much in the same way that we are able to "plead the 5th." Of course, in reality the judge could make an illegal order, and then you'd have to pony up serious $$$ for an appeals lawyer, which I've heard is a lot more expensive.
GuitarHero07 8y ago
unfortunately the system really is that shitty. You can refuse to to take the paternity test but the judge has the power to declare you the father and slap you with child support. Somebody has to pay for those bastard children and the State would rather it be some man rather put another mouth on the overflowing welfare rolls.
TheSchnozzberry 8y ago
So I read both of his posts. No where does it say that the daughter-in-question wants any sort of financial retribution. In fact the dude hires a lawyer for just in case that does happen but so far the only ones asking for anything monetary are just the commenters on the thread. Also we aren't even sure the daughter is his. She's probably just been told that her whole life and the only way for certain to determine now would be a paternity test.
Even if it turns out he is the father I wish he didn't have to spend a dime in child support he was fully for termination of pregnancy and then was told for years that she put the child up for adoption. Only after a decade goes by does he see that the mother kept the child. It'd be a pretty malicious thing to do to make this man support a child that might be his after he expressed he didn't want it and was lied to about what happened to it.
But then again we live in a country where a boy can get raped and then be forced to pay child support to his illegitimate child that is a constant reminder that he was basically raped twice. Once by a woman and once by the government.
[deleted] 8y ago
Apparently according to the law they can get back child support if he now starts acting in a fatherly manner.
Unpopular_But_Right 8y ago
Until there's a paternity test, the kid isn't his. Period.
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BlueFreedom420 8y ago
He is right in ignoring her. She didn't even bother to pretend to want to know him, she just went straight for the money.
He just needs to hold out for 3 years and live his life.
[deleted] 8y ago
Can they not come after him for back child support even after the child is 18?
JeanValjean197o 8y ago
Fuck that little shit.
Her mother is a bitter bitch who's been dripping poison into that kids head for 15 years.
I wouldn't want a relationship with her either. She so rancid and jaded it would never be a healthy relationship or a safe one.
It's sad she didn't know her father, but that wasn't his fault.
And I agree totally that women get a pass when they fail to be accountable for their actions.
The high standards women set for men and the very low standards they keep for themselves tells us all quite clearly that women think men are better than women and women are not equal to men in any way that matters.
[deleted] 8y ago
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anomanderrape 8y ago
I meant to write "promptly". That was a typo. And I was sleepy when I typed it out. My mistake.
Psychoprozac 8y ago
Did I is something in the post or the update to the post where the "child" was trying to get money? I do not recall reading that in either post....
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RedSovereign 8y ago
No moralizing on TRP.
[deleted] 8y ago
What a bunch of flowery bullshit. Protecting yourself from skanks and their progeny is what men do, not give their money out willy-nilly to any stranger with a sob story.
Cloughtower 8y ago
Maybe it's different to be poor? You'd better believe I'd get a paternity test.
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SkorchZang 8y ago
Originally, the moral goodness of the obligation to one's progeny was based on one simple thing. Men who said "that's my blood, and whatever else, she will not suffer the indignity of being left to fend for herself on the street while I live, let her in the house".
This sentiment was seen as praiseworthy, and men derived great pride from it in their community. In other words, it was all about the magnanimous generosity of men, and the displays they made of it in front of one another.
In our degenerate times, it's all been flipped around on its head. The morality of the entitled hens has fast become dictatorial, and they do not see the man's generosity in play, nor appeal to it - they see only his obligation, which they the hens, will determine. Now it's all "he should this", "he must that", "the kid is innocent, didn't ask to be born you asshole, pay up". Bitch, how about no?
raceAround126 8y ago
There is a sci fi author called Lois McMaster. She said this at some point which is strikingly relevant for all of life. I usually think on it when it comes to me and my music. But it's thoroughly relevant here.
I read that as never ever suggest women do not have to respect you for your generosity, protection, whatever else. What they get for free they will take for granted and demand as a right. It kind of resonates with what you were saying regarding men being praiseworthy from looking after their own and in today's society, it's now somehow a right.
It's the same as music. People stealing music has decimated the music industry and the effects are most prominent from the bottom up. Once an artist rises from the ether of nothingness and gets to a certain level, usually they will find that they cannot afford to exist. Yet suggest for one minute that people are acting immorally or in any way negatively for engaging in piracy, the backlash is similar to what a rapist may expect.
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aussiezman 8y ago
He specifically told the woman that he didn't want the kid. She made the decision to have the child knowing that. Then he is called irresponsible for getting her pregnant and an arsehole for not wanting anything to do with the kid now that it has been born.
I despise the use of argument "It's my body, It's my choice", and then demanding the father to accept responsibility for the child's life, what about his choice? If a man wants to keep the child and a woman wants an abortion then she gets to have an abortion and there isn't anything he gets to do to stop her. The double standard is ridiculous.
100% I agree that it is the woman's choice whether or not she wants to have the kid, however if the father says he doesn't want the kid whilst the fetus can be aborted and the woman chooses to continue with the pregnancy; then he should be acquitted of any obligations.
This guy did exactly that! The the females comment with "the child didn't ask to be born", "the child has a right to a father", "life is expensive, you should give material support as a minimum".....
FUCK THAT!! Life isn't fare, we are not entitled to anything, you get the hand you're dealt and tough shit. I grew up without a father because he passed when I was young, I didn't grow up feeling sorry for myself or with the illusion that if he was alive my life would be better.
lizzardbwain 8y ago
So, long story short. They ran out of money ? Option one: BBucks dumped her and her mom Option two: Girl got pregnant (woops)
The level of ... mental incoherency.
Wants access to bank account = broke What does she need access for, to put money in ? LOL
mrsensi 8y ago
she never asks for money, and 15yr old emotional girl = mental incoherence edit : 30yr old emotional girl also = mental incoherence
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AFPJ 8y ago
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Obligations come with rights and in a country where men have right to neither paternity nor choosing whether a kid should be born, we ideologically have no obligation of any kind unless the child was conceived with our agreement.
We don't even have rights over our own nuts: trying to get a Vasectomy in your 20s demonstrates it. With that in mind, book a vacation overseas with a side goal of getting S/RISUG and consider expatting permanently while there.
[deleted] 8y ago
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Trail_of_Jeers 8y ago
Can explain why we have an obligation to that life? It continually comes up, but is never explained.
AFPJ 8y ago
A man and a woman both choose to partake in actions that, perhaps for entertainment, perhaps to indulge urges, have the potential to conceive a new life - but were not explicitly agreed or even implied to be for that purpose.
In the aftermath of what was clearly not an agreement to conceive, the following happens:
To reiterate, your argument is basically:
In what fucking world do Person A & B having equivalent responsibility for dice outcomes make sense?
The reason pregnant out of wedlock women were killed or homeless in the 1700s was precisely to stop bullshit like this from happening, because back then people had common sense and understood that the weight of supporting children falls onto the woman for choosing to get fucked by a man who hasn't committed himself to her.
If a guy commits to a woman and then goes back on his word, that's a very different conversation. But to say that the act of sex today implies a man committing to a woman is retarded. It was even retarded 300 years ago as all women were taught to not fuck men until they were sure the man would stick around to raise their kids.
Whore wants to open her legs without securing commitment? Cool, but that means the outcome is her problem.
It's her problem because it's her choice. This has been globally, explicitly recognized for thousands of years & even the sanctity of HER CHOICE was protected: those violating it by rape were historically punished by death or fatal torture.
Because female function is birth / nurture & male function is provision / protection, males forcing females to perform their function involuntarily is as equivalently heinous as females forcing males to perform their function involuntarily.
Historically, females forcing males to do anything sounded silly ...but not in today's society. Now, every surprise daddy is subject to forced provision: the ideological equivalent of forced conception by rape. Think about that for a second.
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AFPJ 8y ago
...Literally nothing you just said has refuted or even addressed any of the points I brought up. Focus on these parts:
occupythekitchen 8y ago
jesus Christ they are tearing flesh from bone. It's not like the mother didn't include him....hamsters will hamster. Her mother only told her daughter about her real father because and I'll bet money on this she wanted a car so she told her to go ask "her rich dad". Seriously the mother robbed the father of his fatherhood and now he owes that child or that mother something?
Fuck off, he owes them nothing and a stranger is a stranger even if it's blood related
favours_of_the_moon 8y ago
He's actually being a good father here by not indulging her and not teaching her that this entitled attitude is OK.
The FACT is, she gets to make the decision to have that child or not. The FACT is, she can kill that baby even if he wants it. Yet she can also make him pay for HER decision.
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justusinthesystem 8y ago
Hate the system not the player. This guy did exactly what he should have done. He is lucky to pretty much be clear of the law, but he must absolutely protect himself and his son. This girl sounds like a spoiled brat at best. Lots of kids have rough lives. Maybe someone should tell her that if she's that upset perhaps her mother should've planned a little better or had an abortion. Her biological dad didn't ask for her to be born either.
sardinemanR 8y ago
Ordinarily I don't comment like this, but this is way too much anger phase and really doesn't have much to do with TRP. Sometimes anger phase posts can be good, you can get some lessons from them or understand how males are devalued in society. But not really in this case.
Also probably not his kid anyway.
AvoidinAnalBeads 8y ago
Reading the response to this guy's update gave me virtual cancer.
razorwan 8y ago
I could understand the plight if it happened early on-- but this far down the road, it's not even your daughter in any way other than genetics.
MustTry 8y ago
This guy's a cunt. He should man the fuck up and take responsibility for his shit rather than leave it to the state.
TheRedThrowAwayPill 8y ago
It's supposed to be THE OTHER WAY AROUND. "If he can't give material support, he should then at least give emotional support".
dickinlipss 8y ago
This comment thread is worth masturbating over
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TRPtruth 8y ago
I agree with the sentiment, but if bonehead was too stupid to put a rubber on, my tax dollars shouldn't have to go to his kids college tuition. She will get every grant, tax break, and benefit funded by my tax dollars if he does not pay up. Someone's going to pay for his bastard child. Better him than me. It's not my problem and wasn't my cream pie.
[deleted] 8y ago
I'm pretty sure the father didn't have a say either.
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[deleted] 8y ago
In todays world where men can wear a condom and women have hormonal birth control and abortions? Sure. The kid chose not kill itself too, that's some say.
NakedAndBehindYou 8y ago
A 15 year old girl wouldn't be harassing the father she's never met just out of the blue. She's only doing it because her mother has been spewing venom in her ear about what a terrible person her dad is for not giving her the free beta bucks that she wants.
Sdom1 8y ago
This doesn't make sense, considering the story. The mother has never contacted him. If she wanted those beta bux, all she'd have to do is fill out some paperwork and his wages would be garnished. Is it incomprehensible that a girl might grow up bitter because dad never even cared to meet her, not even once?
let_terror_reign 8y ago
What's everyone pissed about?
That the woman would be let off the hook? Yeah, we know that. I don't think he's some good guy either. I mean, that's like saying hey I'll put a baby in you, just deal with it, chill.
I'm not condoning the answers on the relationshit sub, but yeah, he chose to have unprotected sex, right?
One of the commenters is right on this point: Life is expensive, kid didn't ask to be born.
Yeah, he is a deadbeat.
Only thing that seems fishy is the "never came to me until money ran out" part. And even then, I don't really blame the girl. Some people don't want to ask for help until they have to.
This is damn shady even on his end. We shouldn't be supporting the man JUST because he's a man, that's retarded.
SkorchZang 8y ago
It'd be great if the guy's present wife (with whom he has a legit family) could come over and read that thread.
Hell hath no fury like a woman who thinks provisions are about to be taken away from her children, to be shared with other women's. Oh how she would rip, no doubt, into these self righteous "pay upppers" from r/Relationshits, as if a shark had been unleashed on some bleating, pathetically floating lambs. It would be a spectacle to behold!
[deleted] 8y ago
I love the abortion comparison. a man or society wants to force a women to keep a baby and it is horrible. A woman or society wants to force a man to pay for the baby and its ethical
stringerbell 8y ago
Well, that's a blatant misrepresentation of the facts! How honest of you!
If you read the threads, she didn't demand a relationship OR money. She just made bitchy posts saying this guy abandoned and never gave a cent to his biological daughter (she being the biological daughter).
SexistFlyingPig 8y ago
I like your reference to adoption.
Oh, I'm your father am I? Well, come on over, and I'll take you down to the adoption agency to get you a new dad.
ThePedanticF0x 8y ago
Consider the mother's decision to willingly exclude this man from the child's life, there are a few reasons why women do this, all of which poses strong cause for suspicion in terms of paternity.
MajinMew2 8y ago
I've been lurking on the red pill for a while now and this is one of the viewpoints that I can't seem to agree with. Wouldn't a real man own up to his past and have looked after his daughter from the start? To me this argument seems to be "a woman wouldn't be held accountable so neither should he". Surely both women and men should be held accountable in situations like this, (regardless of how young they were when they fucked up).
Trail_of_Jeers 8y ago
Why should they?
Remember, don't argue from morality. Should, Right, Wrong are all invalid replies.
MajinMew2 8y ago
Sorry, I'll rephrase that if I can, I'm saying that if you were to support a woman being held accountable then it's purely illogical to support a man not being held accountable. I'm not saying that morally anybody SHOULD be held accountable at all (I'm not saying whether this man is right or wrong in what he did). I'm just saying I don't understand the belief that a man being held accountable is different to a woman being held accountable (or a dog being held accountable for something it does wrong or a cat being held accountable or a...).
Trail_of_Jeers 8y ago
The woman isn't held accountable. So you must agree that men ought not be.
Yet you say otherwise.
MajinMew2 8y ago
The woman SHOULD be held accountable therefore the man SHOULD e held accountable. You might as well say "X got away with murder so you must agree that every other murderer ought not to be punished as well. Yet you say otherwise".
Trail_of_Jeers 8y ago
Strawman much?
Ok. The man and woman should be held accountable. Why? You want to make the claim, then you ought be able to back it up.
MajinMew2 8y ago
Please reread my comments, I'm not saying that he should be held accountable. I'm saying that the belief that a woman should be held accountable for things should imply a belief in men being held accountable for things too. Do you understand what I mean? I think that at the moment you think I'm saying something completely different to what I'm actually saying.
Immediate edit: I'm saying that (a) => (b), not that (a) is necessarily true.
[deleted] 8y ago
RedPill or not, a real man takes care of his children, legitimate or not. Upvote or downvote me but being redpill is not being an asshole, it's being a man, who will not take shit from anyone, women or men, but your children carry your genes and they need to receive the best chance of survival.
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Uolj 8y ago
Steve Jobs did something like to this.
[deleted] 8y ago
if the kid wants any money she's going to have to go through the court system to do so.
amnotagain 8y ago
Im with you guys on most, but this kid is an embarrassment to manhood. What a streaming bloody douche. We can bob and weave with the best of em, but, as men, when we have responsibilities, we take care of em. This guy is cowering in a corner from his 15 year daughter! Thats not a RP or BP scenario. That's just not a man.
tksmase 8y ago
His responsibility is his son and his healthy family, not a random hoe from his teen years (come on all of us had sex with bitches we don't even remember today) and their mistake.
The guy doesn't want to get into this shit and he's right about it. Notice how in almost all cases it's about the money and brings nothing but shame and dismay to the family of someone who "went out for cigarettes"
If that's the best decision he can come to without making his rightful family be involved he should go ahead and drop a shit on everyone who goes all-emo blabbering about what is right, protecting the double standards.
jimjackjoe 8y ago
The point is this: society is all about abortions and adoptions and shit like that because it empowers women. A man has no say in those decisions, yet is expected to pay up for the woman's decision. Men are held more accountable than women.
And indeed, men should be held more accountable than women. But there's a reason behind why we should be held more accountable. The reason is that we are more accountable. This society doesn't recognize that man is accountable, while simultaneously holding him accountable for everything.
OP's point is more that society/the-comment-section demands payment from this man. Yes, he phrased it as the daughter demanding payment, but we all make mistakes. Writing is hard, have you not noticed?
Knowing that writing is hard, you adjust for other people's mistakes in your head so you can still get the main point.
And to those who are deriding the man's morals: I agree with you conceptually. But what I conceptually believe and how I actually act are two entirely different things. This guy had to actually act; he couldn't just form a conceptual opinion on whether it's right or wrong to keep your illegitimate child out of your life--he had to live it out. It's different than having an opinion.
HellbillyDeluxe 8y ago
I think the point made is a fair one. It is bullshit for women to be able to toss away their responsibilities, while a man is forever held accountable. However, I also think that men should support their children, either from wedlock or not. If not you're throwing your responsibilities on society, which is what children do not men. I also think women should not be allowed to shirk their responsibilities and freely choose abortions and the like. Everyone should be held accountable to their offspring. A a certain level of personal accountability is crucial to a healthy society, the lack thereof is a major contributing factor to the decline we see around us.
jeffwingersballs 8y ago
I'm not posting this to hold it against him or bring the lynch mob here into r/TheRedPill. Those posters suck. I don't want to be associated with them. I get why he made his decision. It's risk adverse and with him having a son, I understand trying to avoid a potentially toxic person entering their life.
With that disclaimer put forth, I think he made the wrong decision. If I were him, I would have looked into the situation a little more because, as long as he can protect his family and assets, I think he had a chance to have positive impact on someone else's life. Particularly his own daughter.
grachuss 8y ago
So the woman refuses abortion, then the guy should have to pay for her refusal. No thanks.
I wish we had a way to notarize a document that says "I hereby ask this woman to get an abortion" that would absolve men of "Their responsibilities". I think the birth rate would drop by %30.
How dare I insist children are raised by two parent households with parents that love them.
nofaprecommender 8y ago
Shit, bro, why not just write down "I hereby absolve myself of all responsibilities," notarize that, and then not have a goddamn thing to worry about at all?
grachuss 8y ago
If he was willing to pay for an abortion he WAS being responsible. It was the woman who chose to keep the bastard not him.
ston3cold 8y ago
Not really. The abortion is just a bonus option after you already fucked up. Not getting a chick pregnant is the responsibility part. Getting away with it via abortion is not something you can expect or count on.
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Geney 8y ago
Dumb people get caught up in this sh*t. Too stupid to use contraception correctly? No plan B? There's a huge gap between their ears in those types.