Summary
I’m sick and tired of reading shitty, half-assed, rinsed-and-repeated posts about lifting and nutrition written by DudeBros who think because they’ve completed six months of Strong Lifts that they’re now an authority on the subject. Thus, I’m going to take the time to actually write a decent one in the hopes the Mods will see fit to sticky it for a duration and we’ll see fewer half-witted posts on the subject.
Why Training Is Important
Physical training is an integral part of the Red Pill ideology and there are two primary reasons for this. First, it instills discipline in you as a man. By consistently hitting the gyms a minimum of three times per week and keeping a training log, you create accountability in your life and develop a diligence that bleeds over into other aspects of your life. Weight training strengthens your mind simultaneously. A training log is essential to genuine long-term growth. Whether you choose to use an old-fashioned notebook and pen or a smartphone app is up to you. Either way, train with a purpose, record every set and rep, and hold yourself accountable.
The second reason why preach the iron gospel is that regardless of what women hamster, visible muscle mass has powerful, animalistic effect on women. They claim it doesn’t matter, but present them with broad shoulders and muscular arms and they can’t keep their hands off you. It’s takes nothing more than a gym membership and your time, yet presents you with an excellent and cost-effective method of increasing your SMV.
There will inevitably be some faggot that chimes in, "What about calisthenics? I much prefer that to lifting weights." I don't give a shit what you prefer, and fuck you for being a delicate little snowflake who just has to chime in to feel good about yourself. This guide is about lifting weights. If you prefer to do gymnastic routines on bars in a park, more power to you; no one claims it doesn't work and that gymnasts aren't jacked as fuck. However, the principles of volume and overload discussed immediately hereafter still apply.
How Training Works
Bodybuilding is an expression of muscular super-compensation, a process by which the body prepares itself to manage more physiological stress than its already experienced. We lift weights, which constitute as an external stress on our muscle tissue. This stress is sub-lethal (meaning it doesn't fucking kill you), but it still alarms the body nonetheless and initiates the super-compensation process. During rest and recovery, the body attempts to adapt to the stress and assuming the body's adaptive capacity has not been overwhelmed, we see an increase in bodily performance proportionate to the level of stress. I'm simplifying this process drastically here, but the basic take away is you must overload the body, let it recover, then overload it again without overwhelming the body's capacity to recover. This process is also referred to as progressive overload.
In this process, the most efficient way to consistent achieve overload and adaptation by increasing overall training volume. When it comes to muscular growth (hypertrophy), volume is king. Volume can be approximated by multiplying (WEIGHTxSETSxREPS), so a squat at 225-lbs for 5x5 would be 5,625-lbs of training volume. You can track volume workout to workout, or on a weekly, monthly, or even annual basis. As long as you are increasing volume across whatever interval you choose, you will see gainz.
How to Train for Volume
There are many methods of consistently increasing volume, but I'll touch on what I think are the simplest/best ones here.
The first method is to increase the weight. The most efficient way to do this is with a linear progression, or LP. A linear progression calls for the trainee to use the same SETSxREPS each workout, but increase the weight (thus increasing the volume). As a new lifter, this is where you should start, as your body will physiologically adapt quickly making an LP the most efficient means of gaining new muscle tissue. Strong Lifts, Starting Strength, and GreySkull LP are all linear progressions.
The second method of increasing volume is to do more work in the same amount of time. This style has been popularized of late by CrossFit and the AMRAP (As Many Reps As Possible), and is also referred to as density training. An example of this might be to do as many pull ups as you can within a 10-minute time limit. If you get 50 reps the first week, then repeat the workout and get 54 reps in the same amount of time, you've increased your training volume for that session.
The third method of increasing the volume is simply to do more reps with the same weight. If you did 5x5 at 225 the previous week (25 working reps), simply keep the weight and go for 28-30 working reps this week (4x7 or 5x6). It's a slower, more calculated process, but picking a weight that you can do for 4x6 and then staying at that weight until you can do 4x10 with it allows you to very slowly load volume (individual reps) and achieve consistent results. Another way to do this is to target a specific number of reps then strive to hit that same number in progressively fewer sets. For example, targeting 32 reps you might start off with 8 sets of 4 reps, but end with 4 sets of 8 reps at the same weight. You're not technically increasing overall volume per workout, but instead increasing volume per set.
As a beginner, you should be focusing on quality reps under solid tension and perfecting your form. Biomechanics and position should always come before pounds. You should not be chasing failure with drop sets and so forth until you've built a strong foundation. This is the biggest mistake new lifters make. There's no point in attempting to do the complex shit Arnold did in his prime at age 30 without doing the 15 years of foundational work he did before. This is the equivalent to thinking because you drove a Mustang on the Autobahn that you're qualified to drive Lewis Hamilton's Formula 1 racecar.
I'm going to stop there, as getting heavy into periodization is beyond the scope of what the average TRP reader needs. Additionally, most complex periodization schemes are simply managing intensity around the body's recovery capacity to ensure small jumps in overall volume over the course of the micro- or meso-cycle.
Programming Suggestions
A beginner should start with and run a linear progression until they fail to progress workout to workout. However, I'm not personally a fan of either Strong Lifts or Starting Strength. I think Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training is a fantastic book and a resource every man should own and read for its insights into technique, biomechanics, and injury prevention. However, I felt better and achieved a more pleasing, masculine physique with John Sheaffer's GreySkull LP program (http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/greyskull-lp/). That's my personal recommendation on the subject, and I'll leave it at that.
As a natural, drug-free lifter, you're best suited to training 3-4 times per week, and most LPs are configured as such. In each workout, you should focus on the complex movements first (bench press, overhead press, squat, deadlift, pull ups), then finish your session with assistance work (curls, flyes, calves, shoulders, et cetera). Isolation work cannot replace complex movements, but there's also nothing wrong with some curls for the girls.
On Nutrition
Diet and nutrition is a touchier subject, one in which people love to argue over. The main thing every man should understand is there is hierarchy of priorities when it comes to fat loss or muscle gain.
Total calorie count per day and per week is the most important factor in gaining or losing weight. While hormones, food quality, and sleep with have an impact on fat loss or muscle gain, at the end of the day you cannot escape the energy equation. To lose one pound per week, a trainee should aim to achieve a 3,500-kcal deficit. How you achieve that deficit is largely up to you. You can shoot to eat 500-kcal less each day, or try an "Eat, Stop, Eat" method where you fast for 24-hours twice a week to achieve for deficit. Both work, so pick the one that you prefer so long as you hit the 3,500-kcal deficit.
Conversely, to gain weight, do the opposite, and shoot for a modest caloric surplus. Bulking too quickly leads to "dirty bulks" where fat gains outpace muscle growth, and lead to a flabby, shitty looking body. Again, shoot for slow, controlled growth. I would recommend simply reversing the deficit guide above, and aim for a 500-kcal a day surplus.
Understand the body is a complex organism with a myriad of systems and influencing factors. You might not gain or lose exactly one pound per week as outlined above, and may have to tweak accordingly. This is OK, so long as you remain diligent and focus on making the minimum number of changes possible; if a 500-kcal deficit works, don't do a 650-kcal just "because."
With regards to macronutrients, people respond differently to different configurations. Some people achieve mind-blowing results on low carb or ultra-low carb diets, while others like myself just get flabby and flat. Some people look at carbs and get fat; others find a good starchy meal makes their muscles look large and full. Experiment with low, moderate, and high carb/fat diets yourself, and figure out which works best for you (stay on each for 4-6 weeks at a time).
For optimal results, you will need to track your calories. There are any number of apps and websites with which to do this. However, be aware that people are fucking stupid, and tend to enter alarmingly incorrect nutritional data on even the simplest of foods. As such, it's best to get a scale and weigh and measure your own food to ensure accuracy, or at least double-check the stats on something before you put it in your log.
On Macronutrients
There is no magical macronutrient ratio for ultimate alphaness. You will likely have to experiment and tweak based on your ability to consistently his your numbers. Protein and carbohydrates are both 4-kcal per gram; fat is 7-kcal per gram.
Men over-estimate their protein needs and under-estimate their carb needs, especially during bulking. Above 0.8-grams per pound of bodyweight, protein has diminished returns (http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/). Both Layne Norton and Menno Henselmans have written extensively about this.
For gaining weight, carbohydrates are more your friend than protein ever will be. Protein does, however, help you feel full which can be especially useful when cutting. Fats are essential to healthy testosterone production, both saturated and unsaturated varieties. Much of the literature indicates that for optimal health, men should keep fat intake above 20% of total daily calories.
On Supplements
They're generally a poor use of your money. If you wish to supplement your diet, whey protein and creatine monohydrate is about all you should invest int (maybe Vitamin D and Zinc if you work a desk job indoors), and given how poorly regulated the industry is, if money is tight you'll be better served by buying a few extra pounds of chicken or beef versus powders. Diet always outweighs supplementation for performance.
My Credentials
US Army Infantry Officer for 5 years. Certified Fitness Trainer under the International Sports Sciences Association (ISSA). Level 1 Trainer under CrossFit, Inc. Two years of full-time experience as a personal trainer at both Gold's Gym and Equinox. I no longer train clients, so if you want more personalized consultation, contact /u/GayLubeOil
Lessons
1. Training is an integral part of developing yourself physically and mentally as a man and increases your SMV.
2. Volume is king when it comes to growth. Lift with a purpose: to systematically increase training volume. Record everything in an app or notebook.
3. Chase perfect form, not failure.
4. Caloric intake takes precedence when bulking or cutting. There is no perfect diet or macronutrient ratio; experiment as necessary.
5. 99% of supplements aren't worth the money. Eat real food.
Jswiizle 8y ago
The goal is to increase volume daily. Works best on bigger lifts such as deadlifts or leg press
52576078 8y ago
So basically, fight hypergamy with hypertrophy.
Redasshole 8y ago
I don't understand this kind of war between those who lift and those who do bodyweight exercises. Lifting weights and doing bodyweight exercises are two different tools. There is not one which is inherently better than the other one, it depends on your goals. For instance, I do martial arts so being big would be a disadvantage for me. I need small but strong and flexible muscles. That's why I do bodyweight exercises and I stretch a lot. Hell, I would love to be bigger, it would get me more ass but I consider my passion (martial arts) to be more important than getting pussy. If lifting is the right tool for you then more power to you but denigrating people who uses different tools is telling them their goals are not valid or that they can't choose the right tools.
VincentPrice 8y ago
Kettlebell and clubbell training will add strength and flexibility, without massing you up to much.
cascadecombo 8y ago
The only weight lifting threads on this sub that are worthwhile are from GLO
musclehacking 8y ago
This thread says otherwise.
ErasmusOrgasmus 8y ago
Surely your 4th method of training for volume doesn't actually fit your description of what training for volume is. You described it as
but then included
Assuming there is no increase in weight (as it's not mentioned) then you haven't actually increased the volume there. Doing 8 sets of 4 reps at 100kg and doing 4 sets of 8 reps at 100kg are equivalent in terms of volume.
Ronin11A 8y ago
Good point. I clarified a what I was going for.
blandwondersock 8y ago
It partly does. He listed doing the same amount of work in a lower time as an increase in volume. Doing 4 sets is faster than 8, but that's a technicality. If you make that Set-Rep change you're still getting stronger.
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ChowkingKRool 8y ago
The value of increasing volume over time is actually to determine that your max strength is increasing, and when max strength goes up, all manners of good things happen. In regards to the OPs explanation of "volume", pragmatically, you should think of volume as a sort of score that relates to your max strength. With this in mind, 8 sets of 4 would have a lower "score" than 4 sets of 8 for the same weight. This would be due to the fact that 4 sets of 8 are more difficult to perform than 8 sets of 4 for a specific exercise at a specific weight under specific conditions. Following this line of thought, 1 set of 500lbs for 1 rep would have a much higher "score" than 5 sets of 100lbs for 1 rep, again due to the differences in difficulty. If you keep most variables (rep x sets x weight) the same, but one increases, this has a positive effect on volume, and thus overall strength.
ErasmusOrgasmus 8y ago
You seem to have missed the point. I understand that 4 sets of 8 is harder than 8 sets of 4 - but that's a change in difficulty, NOT volume as was originally stated.
That's the point, none of the variables were increased in this case, the number of sets and reps were simply swapped so again, there was NO increase in volume. OP has edited his post to clarify that in that case he meant increasing volume per set.
Snivellious 8y ago
So I'm not OP, but the answer is that this isn't more volume if you keep the sets x reps the same. It still works, though. Volume is king, especially for beginners, but it's not the only thing you can work towards.
Decreasing rest is another way of increasing intensity. If you're moving the same rep count into fewer steps, you're putting more intense demands on your muscles, which is the absolute core of gains.
But yes, from what I know you're right, and it threw me off also coming right after "always volume". That step isn't a recipe for more volume.
Ronin11A 8y ago
Good point. I clarified that the last one isn't increasing volume per workout, but volume per set.
Snivellious 8y ago
Thanks! I should have mentioned that in my reply, I'm glad you did - it is a volume increase, but you have to measure over a shorter time span to see it.
GunsGermsAndSteel 8y ago
Quick question, if you have time: I can't handle whey protein. Puts me on the toilet for hours. Instead, I use casein protein. Do you see any problem with this? Is it as effective?
musclehacking 8y ago
No problem with this at all. Casein digests more slowly than whey, but it's been shown that so long as you have your daily macros on point then the timing of your protein is insignificant. Thus the speed of digestion is not important.
If you can't handle whey, casein is a more than viable alternative.
GunsGermsAndSteel 8y ago
From what I understand, in people who are lactose intolerant, whey is the part of milk they can't tolerate. So taking whey protein is... Well... It was pretty brutal.
MotchGoffels 8y ago
Can you recommend an app for tracking lifts/gains?
Ronin11A 8y ago
I use a notebook, but Fitocracy has a good rep.
CrackityDiggity 8y ago
A lot of shitty posts about lifting on TRP from obviously inexperienced people pretending to know what they're talking about--this isn't one of them. Great post.
BarbellFlies 8y ago
When I clicked in the link for this post I looked away for half a minute, bracing myself for yet another Stronglifts circle jerk.
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oldstrangers 8y ago
I immediately knew to ignore the post when he listed crossfit as one of his credentials.
rpscrote 8y ago
he's not confusing the two. He's using terminology pulled from the scientific literature on the matter. Strength focused high weight low rep and "hypertrophy" focused higher rep lower weight schemes can be equalized in terms of "total volume" which is defined in much of the literature as set x rep x weight.
Its how they equalize the workouts for purposes of comparing them apples to apples.
I didnt get the impression he thinks those two types of strategies are the same, rather, that you should focus on total work volume by pulling on any/all/some of the available levers (those being, sets - reps - weight - density)
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rpscrote 8y ago
I'm not gonna read you bedtime stories. Either you've read any amount of the literature, or you haven't. I'm not going to hold your hand, since you sound like a faggot anyways.
Here's one example. A research review comparing volume training versus strength training, on a volume-equated basis. Guess how they equated volume? Yup. Total reps (reps x sets) x Weight. http://ge.tt/3PFOh5Y1/v/0?c
Page 5, first sentence, last paragraph.
Ronin11A 8y ago
Percentages of WHAT? Your 1RM, which is measured in WHAT? Pounds or kilograms.
Which are measurements of weight.
EDIT: See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl8v6frDJHc
Ronin11A 8y ago
Mark Rippetoe, Layne Norton, and a lot of other people smarter than me would disagree with you. But what do they know? I didn't say that volume and weight are the same thing, but that weight contributes to overall training volume as a driver of adaptation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24714538
"Seventeen young men were randomly assigned to either a hypertrophy-type resistance training group that performed 3 sets of 10 repetition maximum (RM) with 90 seconds rest or a strength-type resistance training (ST) group that performed 7 sets of 3RM with a 3-minute rest interval. After 8 weeks, no significant differences were noted in muscle thickness of the biceps brachii. Significant strength differences were found in favor of ST for the 1RM bench press, and a trend was found for greater increases in the 1RM squat. In conclusion, this study showed that both bodybuilding- and powerlifting-type training promote similar increases in muscular size, but powerlifting-type training is superior for enhancing maximal strength."
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Ronin11A 8y ago
How does that study contradict me? One group used higher weights, more sets, and fewer reps. One group used lighter weights, fewer sets, and more reps. Overall "VOLUME load was equated" (that's from Lyle), and overall levels of hypertrophy were the same. All of this just reinforces my overall point that WEIGHT is a factor in measuring overall training VOLUME, and that volume drive hypertrophy.
See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD3KxvQ9_KY
Shabbatai 8y ago
It is tho, what he wrote about the nutrition aspect of it is complete broscience
DikIn1HandPenInOther 8y ago
Menno is a fucking idiot. Norton is a fucking idiot.
Plenty of research shows >0.8g/lb is beneficial.
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DikIn1HandPenInOther 8y ago
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Tipton+KD+AND+RR+Wolfe.+Protein+and+amino+acids+for+athletes.J+Sports+Sci.+%282004%29+22%281%29%3A65-79.
Also, you're thinking of KIDNEY damage, not liver. Kidney damage has been the go-to against eating high protein for years, and has been all but proven to be wrong in the literature, but it isn't the official stance of the AND yet so few 'experts' have the courage to say it.
P.S. If you're going to use a source, use original studies.
JORGA 8y ago
Definitely, who recommends a 500 cal deficit per day lol.
And the first bodybuilding guide I've ever read that says don't use protein powder
Operator216 8y ago
He's not said -500kcal daily for cutting. This is for fat fucks who want to look like actual humans.
Shabbatai 8y ago
I agree with the no protein powder, but that's because I developed a diet that doesn't require me to take protein supplements.
Protein powders do have their use tho, as long as you go for premium poducts (no soy, soy lechitin, low quality aminoacids etc)
JORGA 8y ago
Yeah if you can get all of your protein from good foods then bravo to you. I couldn't imagine having 3/4,000 cals per day of all good food
And I can get nearly 100g of protein in a single shake so why not
Shabbatai 8y ago
Of course, it depends where you live, budget constraints, time constraints etc.
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trp-lurker 8y ago
https://youtu.be/_93yK9QiwGE?t=171
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DeathByTeaCup 8y ago
What's wrong with a 500 cal deficit if cutting? I thought that's the upper limit of cutting without losing muscle.
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JORGA 8y ago
Depends how drastic you want the cut to be, most recommend aiming for a loss of 1/2 lbs per week
DannyDemotta 8y ago
Bruh, most of the fatties and skinnyfats around here could probably lose 2-3lbs per week and gain muscle at the same time.
This isnt the misc. This is Reddit. Know your audience. Probably 70% of the subs here read this shit and then dont do it.
Unless you have a 1000+ total at <200lbs bodyweight (which is barely intermediate level), you can likely lose 2lbs per week and keep every ounce of your strength. For you to be limited by .5lb/week you'd have to be not only shredded but actually fucking lift heavy - not just be some Crossfitting CardioBro.
JORGA 8y ago
skinny fats don't even need 1% of this post tbh. Pick a weekly routine, lift heavy as you can, get your protein in. That's it, that's all i've done.
From 0 training history skinny fat to doing 160kg dead/100kg bench/120kg squat in 6 months. Noob gains are insane
IllimitableMan 8y ago
Are those gains natty? That's some immense progress.
JORGA 8y ago
yep, i started weighing approx 196 lbs and 6'1. I go to a gym with some close friends, 1 is an ON sponsored athlete, another is an amateur competitor and another is the NABBA north east UK heavyweight champion for this year. I've had it easy in terms of learning from good people
[deleted] 8y ago
"record every set and rep"
Not disagreeing, but is this really that important? I usually just do 3 sets til near failure (usually 3-10 reps). I kind of just wing it in this regard.
rporion 8y ago
"The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds."
-Henry Rollins
Lesninore 8y ago
"For no one can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts... this, this you can trust (lifts a sword)" -- Conan's Dad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz2DknROaI8
DarkExecutor 8y ago
Yea but if you weight lift you know that sometimes gravity is just heavier on some days and some days is just lighter.
Claude_Reborn 8y ago
/slap
Gravity only varies by location not day!
The iron will be ever so slightly lighter at high altitudes.
DarkExecutor 8y ago
You actually thought I was serious?
200 pounds may always be 200 pounds, but your body can vary wildly from day to day.
Claude_Reborn 8y ago
No, I didn't think you were serious.
I'm just a science pedant.
pireone 8y ago
I'm with Claude gravity's effect on mass decreases with altitude but it is almost negligible unless your up around 40km above. -aerospace engineer
nzgs 8y ago
I agree with 99% of this, apart from the volume bit. I believe intensity > volume, it's just that most people don't really understand what intensity means and think it means lifting like a powerlifter. But the nutrition and supplements bit is bang on. nzgs stamp of approval.
(To expand, for bulking protein is less important since the body has more than enough energy to not catabolise muscle tissue. Carbs (and fat too) are important for packing on muscle. When dieting down however, protein does get extremely important.)
And no, you don't fucking need protein powder.
Ronin11A 8y ago
I agree with a single caveat: Most novices don't have the technique or coordination to handle higher intensity training sessions. There's no point in going for broke if it leads to degradation of form and injury. Even CrossFit refined and revised its doctrine to acknowledge this.
For the beginner, volume should be the priority. After a year or two of blood and sweat under their belt, intensity can take the lead.
nzgs 8y ago
Ok, I'll agree there. No one should touch intensity training with less than 6-12 months serious training. My perspective of intensity is the Jones/Mentzer school of thought, which arguably places greater emphasis on form than the high volume Weider/Arnold approach however. I think crossfit is just recklessness rather than intensity.
UnlimitedEgo 8y ago
Any real easy way to track calories. I cook a lot, and am not really good at ballparking.
Ronin11A 8y ago
Weigh and measure everything until you learn to "eyeball" it. As for apps, I use MyNetDiary, but MyFitnessPal works as well.
UnlimitedEgo 8y ago
So do I measure before i put it all together?
rpscrote 8y ago
Read this: http://rippedbody.jp/how-to-count-macros/. Consistency and tracking are absolutely most important
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Source1311 8y ago
Mark Rippetoe, Bill Starr, and Pavel Tsatsouline.
Ronin11A 8y ago
Bill Starr is a legend. Would have loved to have met and trained with that man.
Futdashukup 8y ago
Full body, 3 times a week. Squat,leg curls, dead lifts, BO rows, abs, Bench,dips, OHP,
2 weeks light, reps of 15, sets of 3.
2 weeks medium, reps of 10 , sets of 4
2 weeks heavy, reps of 5, sets of 5
Rinse and repeat, bumping up the weight each cycle.
Sleep
Drink water
Eat good food.
DaphneDK 8y ago
I'm about to start on some travelling for 3+ months in SE Asia, where I'll not find regular fitness centres. Any tips on how to at least maintain current strengt with non-equipment excercies?
deadtfil 8y ago
I joined the gym 2 days ago after 3 months of inactivity. My seasoned gym friends say I should be doing their workout, because if it worked for them, it will work for me. Personally, I don't think its a good idea to go 6 times/week hardcore so soon. However, I've been peer pressured into it. I was thinking about Stronglifts, but my friends use a more bodybuilderish approach of 4x12. I want to get big, then focus on strength after I put on some mass.What do you recommend?
Ronin11A 8y ago
Do what YOU want. Fuck the rest.
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Ronin11A 8y ago
Fuck, man, I did 6ams for about one month. Then I when people asked, I just said no. I still billed people if the no-showed me, 'cause fuck 'em.
WellHungMan 8y ago
If they no-showed you, and you could still bill them, why not keep doing it? Free money and all that.
Ronin11A 8y ago
Because I still had to be there, and fuck that.
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RedPillDad 8y ago
It's the Integrity Gap. It's a very common pattern that people have good intentions and don't deliver on them. Then they forgive themselves because they think their good intentions were suffecient excuse.
Integrity involves closing the gap between what you say and what you do. No fucking excuses.
People need attitude training. Weak flabby bodies often reflect weak, flabby mindsets. You and OP probably could say a lot more about this.
abXcv 8y ago
Because they're imagining how great they'll feel once they get up in the morning and get a workout before going to work.
Imagining all the gains that are going to come and the feeling of wellbeing you get after a good workout.
And then the alarm clock goes at 5:30 and an extra hour in bed feels infinitely better than a hard workout.
I'm the same, I'm a dedicated gym goer but you'll never see me at the gym in the morning.
Ronin11A 8y ago
Because this time is going to be different, man. This January, they're really going to make it a lifestyle, you know? If they have a trainer at 6am, that'll totally hold them accountable! /s
reigorius 8y ago
Shitloads of money can be earned as personal motivator. If you like yelling people out of their beds early in the morning.
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Shabbatai 8y ago
I started reading, seemed quite informative, then I read this:
HAHAHAHAHAHA
You clearly are the dudebro with no idea, please abstain from giving nutritional advice if you're going to spout out this calorie in calorie out bullshit.
Better information as far as nutrition and strength training go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdJFbjWHEU - Paleo Diet & Strength Training Biochemistry | Doug McGuff M.D. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nIZ4Yih_88 - High Intensity Training Workouts | Drew Baye https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52A3ayfxfTs - The Paleo Diet Explained (Dr Leon Cordain) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l59YyXpCT1M - Why we get fat (Gaury Taubes) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM - Fructose, the bitter truth
If anyone requires more in depth reading on the subject feel free to pm me and I'll post studies, papers, or more videos.
OP has obviously NO CLUE on how the body actually works and what calories are, difference between macros/micros, etc.
So much bro science it hurts.
Ronin11A 8y ago
I'm a big fan of Paleo. For the average person, it's a great nutritional model.
But even Robb Wolf himself has stated on the record that Paleo was hijacked by asshats. Paleo was never intended to be an ultra low-carb diet. Cordain and Wolf instead intended to replace processed, refined carbs with natural ones (like the sweet potato). But Wolf himself has stated that the dietary needs of an overweight couch potato and the dietary needs of an active weightlifter are NOT the same.
You demonize insulin without taking into account its powerful effect in muscle growth. Is a ketogenic diet useful for a person with Type-II diabetes and hyperinsulinemia? Absolutely. Is it equally useful for an athlete at a healthy weight training 3-4 times a week? Fuck no.
Shabbatai 8y ago
Whilst that might be true, it doesnt imply that a paleo lifestyle is inherently bad/not optimal for an active weightlifter.
I mean, it's obvious that a couch potato and active person will have different dietary needs, no one is questioning that.
The literature on insulin is more than extensive, we are not arguing tinfoil material here.
We disagree, you've said your part, I've said mine. Now it's up to the people to make an informed decision.
prodigyx 8y ago
Wow, we should call the nobel prize committee. This guy figured out a way around the first law of thermodynamics.
Shabbatai 8y ago
Hahaha. You behave just like a woman would. You cannot refute what I say so you resort to ad hominems.
musclehacking 8y ago
Are you fucking serious?
You call /u/Ronin11A a "dudebro with no idea" and then proceed to promote and spread the videos of Gaury Taubes and Dr. Lustig - two of the biggest culprits for spreading pseudo-science on the internet.
Get off your self-made paleo pedestal and educate yourself on the topics that you pretend to know something about.
Read:
The bitter truth about fructose alarmism which breaks apart all the leaps of faith in Dr. Lustig's youtube hit.
Summary of debate between Gary Taubes and Alan Aragon at the epic fitness summit. Gary was arguing that carbs make people fat. Alan argued that caloric excess make people fat (why this even needed to be debated is beyond me, but I guess your comment sheds light on that).
OP tried to make his section on nutrition as straight forward and clear-cut as possible and you still had to come in and nit-pick with your paleo/keto nonsense.
You laugh at the idea that "total calorie count per day and per week is the most important factor in gaining or losing weight"? Seriously? He didn't say only factor, he said most important factor.
If you really think it's not the most important factor, please call fox news and eat 10k calories of fat/day in a metabolic ward from whatever "paleo" sources you like and see how you look afterwards.
The last thing a beginner needs to see/watch is the garbage you just posted. Except maybe to contrast OP's point -
Jaereth 8y ago
Yeah i'm a pretty strict Ketoer, but even if you eat nothing but Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato, if you eat 4 pounds of it a day you are still going to get fat. Calories are king. Everything else is meant to refine you into awesomeness.
musclehacking 8y ago
Glad you actually pointed that out, because the number of arguments I've had with people in the keto community over this was starting to make me believe keto = quack.
Must be hard being grouped in with all this crap as soon as someone hears that you're "keto".
Keep refining that awesomeness brother.
Shabbatai 8y ago
Yes I am serious. You clearly seem to have little clue as well, I suggest you spend more time educating yourself.
A blog post and a cherry picked video adressing only half what I posted, you sure showed me.
PS: I don't pretend to know, I actually run a succesfull fitness website that also sells raw products and nutritional supplements. What about you?
musclehacking 8y ago
Then please provide counter points to the arguments raised in both the article and video I just posted.
You're laughing in the face of the energy balance equation without any evidence to back it up, yet you have the audacity to accuse me of only addressing half of the four youtube videos you spat out? You're a new kind of special snowflake.
Is that your evidence? No studies, no debate, nothing? Just "I run a successful fitness website that sells stuff - do you?".
My god man. You sure showed me. Because "fitness websites" are well established to only being made by knowledgeable individuals who would never take advantage of the public's ignorance.
The fact that you couldn't even spell "succesfull fitness website" correctly really solidifies your argument.
Shabbatai 8y ago
My friend, I am Italian, and I can safely say I speak and write in english much better than you do.
Also, nice of you to attack spelling, like a woman that starts throwing around "virgin neckbeard" when she knows she is in the wrong.
Found something that should make it easier for you to understand:
Question: I have a question that may be related to this.
On several low carb forums right now, there is a debate going on about what happens to the extra fat calories if carbs are kept extra low so that insulin is kept low. Some say it will be stored as fat anyway, others say it will be burned as heat and still others say it will be excreted. One member even did near-zero carbs and very high fat for a week (4500 calories instead of a normal 2500, with an average of about 80-90 g of protein). He lost a pound off of his already lean physique.
So, where does that extra fat go? Is it excreted? The detractors say that fat is completely digested before reaching the colon but I am not sure. If it is excreted, could you go ultra high fat, zero carb for a week or so and get the same detox results as the cosmic pizza grease?
Answer: Hi Ryan–
Your comment raises an interesting question. Where does all the excess energy go?
I’ve had a number of patients and countless letters from readers who have had the same experience. They consume a ton of fat, but don’t gain weight…or even, as with the guy you described, lose a little. Mostly the letters we get are from people who complain that they are following our diet to the letter, yet not losing weight. When we investigate, we find that in virtually every case these people are consuming huge numbers of calories as primarily fat. We always ask them if it doesn’t strike them as strange that they’re eating as much as they are, yet not gaining.
In order to lose weight, one must create a caloric deficit. This can be done in a number of ways. People can burn more calories by increasing exercise; they can eat fewer calories; or they can increase their metabolic rate. Or they can do any combination of the above.
Most people going on a low-carb diet decrease their caloric intake. A low-carb diet is satiating, so most people eat much less than they think they are eating even though the foods they’re consuming are pretty high in fat. Some people, however, can eat a whole lot on a low-carb diet, and, can in fact, eat so much that they don’t create the caloric deficit and don’t lose weight. But the interesting thing is that they don’t gain weight either. They pretty much stay the same. They are eating huge numbers of calories and not gaining, so where do the calories go?
First, I don’t think they go out in the bowel. If they did, people would have cosmic pizza grease stools whenever they ate a lot of fat over a period of time, and they don’t. And a number of studies have shown that increasing fat in the diet doesn’t increase fat in the stool.
Eating a very-low-carbohydrate diet ensures that insulin levels stay low. Unless insulin levels are up, it’s almost impossible to store fat in the fat cells. With high insulin levels fat travels into the fat cell; with low insulin levels fat travels out. So, it’s pretty safe to say that the fat isn’t stored. So what happens to it?
The body requires about 200 grams of glucose per day to function properly. About 70 grams of this glucose can be replaced by ketone bodies, leaving around 130 grams that the body has to come up with, which it does by converting protein to glucose and by using some of the glycerol backbone of the triglyceride molecule (the form in which fat is stored) for glucose. If one eats carbs, the carbs are absorbed as glucose and it doesn’t take much energy for the body to come up with its 200 gram requirement; if, however, one isn’t eating any carbohydrates, the body has to spend energy to convert the protein and trigylceride to glucose. That’s one reason that the caloric requirements go up on a low-carb diet.
The other reason is that the body increases futile cycling. What are futile cycles? Futile cycles are what give us our body temperature of 98.6 degrees. Futile cycles are just what the name implies: a cycle that requires energy yet accomplishes nothing. It operates much like you would if you took rocks from one pile and piled them in another, then took them from that pile and piled them back where they were to start with. A lot of work would have been expended with no net end result.
The body has many systems that can cycle this way, and all of them require energy. Look up the malate-aspartate shuttle; that’s one that often cycles futilely.
Another way the body dumps calories is through the inner mitochondrial membrane. This gets a little complicated, but I’ll try to simplify it as much as possible. The body doesn’t use fat or glucose directly as fuel. These substances can be thought of as crude oil. You can’t burn crude oil in your car, but you can burn gasoline. The crude oil is converted via the refining process into the gasoline you can burn. It’s the same with fat, protein and glucose–they must be converted into the ‘gasoline’ for the body, which is a substance called adenosine triphosphate (ATP). How does this conversion take place? That’s the complicated part.
ATP is made from adenosine diphosphate (ADP) in an enzymatic structure called ATP synthase, which is a sort of turbine-like structure that is driven by the electromotive force created by the osmotic and electrical difference between the two sides of the inner mitochondrial membrane. One one side of the membrane are many more protons than on the other side. The turbine-like ATP synthase spans the membrane, and as the protons rush through from the high proton side to the low proton side (much like water rushing through a turbine in a dam from the high-water side to the low-water side) the turbine converts ADP to ATP.
The energy required to get the protons heavily concentrated on one side so that they will rush through the turbine comes from the food we eat. Food is ultimately broken down to high-energy electrons. These electrons are released into a series of complex molecules along the inner mitochondrial membrane. Each complex passes the electrons to the next in line (much like a bucket brigade), and at each pass along the way, the electrons give off energy. This energy is used to pump protons across the membrane to create the membrane electromotive force that drives the turbines. The electrons are handed off from one complex to the other until at the end of the chain they are attached to oxygen to form water. (If one of these electrons being passed along the chain of complexes somehow escapes before it reaches the end, it becomes a free radical. This is where most free radicals come from.)
There are two parts to the whole process. The process of converting ADP to ATP is called phosphorylation and the process of the electrons ultimately attaching to oxygen is called oxidation. The combined process is called oxidative phosphorylation. It is referred to as ‘uncoupling’ when, for whatever reason, the oxidation process doesn’t lead to the phosphorylation process. Anything that causes this uncoupling is called an ‘uncoupling agent.’
You can see that the whole process requires some means of regulation. If not, then the electromotive force (called the protonmotive force, since it’s an unequal concentration of protons causing the force) can build up to too great a level. If one overconsumes food and doesn’t need the ATP, then the protonmotive force would build up and not be discharged through the turbines because the body doesn’t need the ATP. The body has accounted for this problem with pores through the inner mitochondrial membrane where protons can drift through as the concentration builds too high and by proteins called uncoupling proteins that actually pump the protons back across. So we expend food energy to pump protons one way, then more energy to pump them back.
One of the things that happens on a high fat diet is that the body makes more uncoupling proteins. So, with carbs low and fat high, the body compensates, not by ditching fat in the stool, but by increasing futile cycling and by increasing the numbers of uncoupling proteins and even increasing the porosity of the inner mitochondrial membrane so that the protons that required energy to be moved across the membrane are then moved back. So, ultimately, just like the rocks in my example above, the protons are taken from one pile and moved to another then moved back to the original pile, requiring a lot of energy expenditure with nothing really accomplished.
This is probably all as clear as mud, but it is what happens to the excess calories on a low-carb, high-fat diet.
Cheers–
MRE
musclehacking 8y ago
I'm also Italian - what's your point? I was simply pointing out the irony in you misspelling "successful" while claiming that you were successful.
Another statement without any supporting evidence. You're on a roll tonight.
Oh god what a read that was. A full 10/10 for pseudo-science and fitness-guru talk.
So calories matter now? But you laughed at OP for mentioning it?
Okay. So more satiating -> less calories consumed -> weight loss. Got it. Calories still matter.
Not huge as in way-over-maintenance huge. You think otherwise? Please provide evidence. Anecdotes don't mean anything in this context.
Pseudo-science bullshit. It's safe to say fat isn't stored? From that statement? Who are you fooling? So I can eat 5k calories of fat a day for a year at 2k maintenance and not gain weight due to the lack of insulin then right? Wrong.
This effect is tiny. This is not the huge levels that are continuously put forward by the keto community. Not only that, but all this is based on the calorie model. This is still calories in vs. calories out. You're just claiming that calories out has gone up. You are literally fuelling the argument against your own claims.
The rest of your post is over-exaggerated bullshit. This is not evidence. You don't know what you're talking about. It's as clear as mud because you're throwing mud on the binoculars which are seeing straight through your bullshit.
Provide actual evidence that these effects are going to be any more meaningful than well over 300 calories - like some of the claims made by the paleo community.
And even if you could do this (hint - you can't) you'd still be acknowledging the fact that it's all just an energy balance - i.e. calories in vs. calories out.
I sincerely hope the people who actually believe your pseudo-science clue up quickly, for their own sake. You seem to be too deep within your own confirmation bias to be helped, shame.
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Shabbatai 8y ago
Amico mio, you clearly lack some basic knowledge of biology and biomechanics.
There is no point in going further in this discussion. I mean your even arguing against the accepted pharmacology of insulin. And you clearly haven't looked into futile cycles, am I right?
[Citation needed]
Yes, your body adjusts your metabolic rate in a high fat diet, adapting it to the number of calories you take in. Hence the futile cycles.
So you basically read the post with the only intent of proving me wrong, and not learning instead. Good job.
Nice ad hominems tho. Please take an online course on evolutionary biology or something, will help you in life/10.
edit: saw this on my twitter feed, seemed relevant:
https://twitter.com/drjasonfung/status/645794406759575552
musclehacking 8y ago
You believe that you can consume 3000 calories over maintenance (in a 5000 calorie diet) because "the thermal effect of food" and "because insulin".
Even thinking about that from a modest stand post of logic makes zero sense. You're obviously lacking in that department, so instead I'll address the elephant in the room.
You can't critique a well established system (the energy equation) with nonsense such as above and then say "Citation needed".
It doesn't work that way. If you're going to make outrageous claims (like 3k calories over maintenance on a keto diet for a drug-free athlete won't get you fat) then the burden of proof is on you to have supporting evidence to back that claim. Works in nutrition just like any other field.
Good luck finding anything even slightly controlled or relevant. I won't wait up.
Shabbatai 8y ago
Again, you show complete ignorance of basic biomechanics and pharmacology.
You are assuming every calorie is treated the same way by the body regardless of the source.
A grade 6 biology students knows better than that.
musclehacking 8y ago
No I'm not. Now you're just attacking straw men.
I've already wasted enough time trying to educate you and give you some perspective. Good luck on your fitness-guru journey.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
Excellent broad brush strokes piece.
I'd like to see you do a more detailed piece on nutrition if you had the time. I would also be interested to read your thoughts/analysis on IF since you only give a cameo to Brad Pilon's approach.
Hiimusog 8y ago
I see you recommend training 3/4 days a week and as a newbie to lifting I have a few questions. I've been lifting for 3 weeks now and so far have went from 58 - 61kg while retaining my low body fat level, however my training regime has just been following a friends routine (he has been lifting for 9 months, fairly well built). Our regime is currently much harsher than anything I read online or hear from friends, (usually 2/2.30 hours at the gym) with many exercises ranging from 8 exercises per muscle group all being 4x8.
Since I have recently graduated from school, I have much more time than I know what to do with and I want to maximise the amount of gains I make. I see some people recommend training each muscle group 2 times a week which for me would be 5 days a week, is this over training?
I've been working to eat much more, using protein supplements to help me reach 1.5g/kg protein if i'm not getting it from my diet daily as well as creatine 5g daily.
Would training each muscle group 2 times a week, lifting 5 days a week, be too much? Is my current regime already overtraining?
Ronin11A 8y ago
Honestly, there is no such thing as "overtraining" but simply under-recovering. For each person, that will be slightly different, and will require some experimentation to figure out where your limits are.
You can train each muscle group twice a week, and there's research that indicates this is actually beneficial as frequency is huge for growth. However, overall intensity during each workout will have to drop slightly; you can't do burnout sets and drops sets and other bullshit every single time and expect to actually recover and grow.
If your friend has been lifting for 9 months, he's a novice, and it sounds like he's a try hard too. I would hop on GreySkull LP and let him continue his on his own. A year from now when you've long surpasses him, he'll wake up and smell the coffee.
Hiimusog 8y ago
Haha thanks for the belated reply, funnily enough i've already implemented most of the advice you've given.
Dropped the friend, took on a PPL rotating split ( each muscle 3 times a fortnight), upped my calories and have made significant gains.
Most people don't bother to research and just hit the weights as hard as they can, I appreciate your knowledge and hope to use it to achieve my physique goals :)
reigorius 8y ago
What can you do on rest days? I love indoor climbing or rock climbing. And still have 9 lessons of yoga. Should I do those on rest days?
rpscrote 8y ago
agree with musclehacking. if you're an intermediate lifter, look into RPE autoregulation. It helps you account for active rest days where you mightve not recovered as much as usual and accounts for shitty days in general.
musclehacking 8y ago
You can do whatever you like on rest days. You don't need validation from others on whether or not you should do rock climbing/yoga/walk your dog. If you enjoy it, do it. Active rest is good so long as it's not exhausting you.
Personally I think rock climbing is the shit. Go for it.
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keytoimmortality 8y ago
Great read. a question with squats: I get a serious pinch in my hip flexors when I break parallel, any suggestions?
I believe my form is sound, would you just recommend hip mobility exercises before squatting?
Background info: 20 years old, been lifting a couple years - only been taking legs seriously the last 6 months and currently squatting 200lbs 5x5
An_All-Beef_Engineer 8y ago
See Mark Rippetoe's instructional on Squats
Metalgear222 8y ago
15 reps on each side x3. Increase it per week. you go to 20 reps x3, 25 x3 and so on.
tino125 8y ago
Possible hip impingement. Lets hope its not. I had it, and the surgery isn't fun. I'd go to parralell
slay_it_forward 8y ago
Check out mobility wod on youtube
NPIF 8y ago
A lot of people who squat have this problem and it's often due to your foot position. Make sure your toes are pointed 30-45 degrees outwards to allow yourself to get deeper into the squat. Pointing your toes forward or not outward enough will put excess pressure on the hip flexors.
keytoimmortality 8y ago
Unfortunately this isn't my problem, always have the toes pointed outwards
Metalgear222 8y ago
Human ergonomist here, back off the weight and start isolating your hip flexors. Lay on your back, put your arms above your head. Make sure you're resting on your TAILBONE (sacrum). NOT your lower back. Contract abs, squeeze butt, and slowly move one leg as high as possible while never letting off the sacrum. This will strengthen your hip flexors over time. I'd recommend 1 month of this before squatting heavy again.
keytoimmortality 8y ago
sounds good, I'll give these a try
rpscrote 8y ago
make sure you are stretching the hips out (google some stretches) after warming up legs. I end up doing 1 warm up set, 1 stretch set, 1 warm up set, 1 stretch set etc. until I reach work sets. My hip mobility is significantly better since I started doing this
keytoimmortality 8y ago
I'll give this a try, sounds good. Cheers
dustyterran 8y ago
tight hip flexors most likely, look for dynamic stretches to do before squatting (I always do some leg swings to open my hips up) and also foam rolling never heard anyone.
keytoimmortality 8y ago
I do leg swings and they help a bit, but the discomfort is still there
Zebleblic 8y ago
I debating on going to the gym, but I have an a/c separation in my left shoulder. Does anyone have any experience with this? I used to be in competitive swimming, but I can't really swim due to the shoulder. I mainly just tread water when I go to the pool.
Does anyone know if I can strengthen my shoulder, or just need to get the surgery?
[deleted] 8y ago
if your acromioclavicular ligament is broken, then it would seem you need surgery. If it's just a partial tear or something I don't know. I'd get a surgeon to do an assessment and also get a physiotherapist to do an assessment. You may find they give different opinions.
Zebleblic 8y ago
I think they are all torn. It sits on top of my shoulder.
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Ronin11A 8y ago
So 4x10 at 185-lbs is exactly the same as 4x10 at 225-lbs because the 4x10 is the same? LOL.
drallcom3 8y ago
I do 3x10 and increase the weight once I can do the first set to 10 with perfect form. No idea what you call that. Made some great progress that way.
Before I tried this linear progression thing where you increase the weight every week, but I didn't really progress with it.
TrenAcetate 8y ago
Good post.
What is missing however is that there are two huge factors that contribute to great physique that have not been mentioned. I am in no way advocating drug use, however it needs to be said.
Everybody who is serious about training increases their training volume over time, eats for their current goal(surplus or deficit) and gets adequate recovery time. Those things are a given. However the "bodybuilding elite" the physiques most guys aspire to - Mens physique competitors, guys on magazine covers, the handful of jacked guys in your local gym all possess those two factors - Genetics and drugs
Plenty of guys will never look even halfway good simply because they have inferior genetics for building muscle. In one study 25% of lifters "failed to yield any measurable hypertrophy" Google the Hubal and Petrella studies to see that I'm not just making this up.
The drug factor goes without saying. Most people will just straight up lie about their use for obvious reasons and heavy users will always downplay their use.
musclehacking 8y ago
Bullshit. Plenty of guys half-ass their training and diet and that's why they look like shit. The minority of guys who actually have genetics that completely prevent them from looking good is so insignificant that it's an injustice for you to mention it. You're just setting the wrong expectations.
I highlighted the important part.
And yes, men do lie all the time about their use of steroids, but that's not supporting evidence for your claim. Steroids make the process of gaining muscle a lot easier and quicker - but that doesn't mean TRPer's should all start injecting.
As mentioned by OP, part of the beauty of building a solid physique is the discipline it installs in you as a man. I'm not trying to bash the use of steroids all together, but at the same time it shouldn't be the first go-to option.
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bhooooo 8y ago
About having more than 20% of calories from fats: that's 77 grams of fat. Which fat to go for? AFAIK 300g of processed meat gets you there but it's not something good for our bodies!
musclehacking 8y ago
There are plenty of sources of fat outside of processed meat.
If you're genuinely curious, some good sources of fats are eggs, dairy (milk, cheese, cottage cheese, yoghurt), nuts and seeds (almonds, walnuts, etc), avocados, fatty fish (sardines, salmon), and non-processed meat such as scotch fillet/T-bone steak/lamb/pork etc.
The rest you'll get from "tag-along fats" from your other foods sources.
Goldfulgore 8y ago
Great post. You covered everything. I have been working out 10 years now and I have reached a very very slow progression rate. Any tips on how to maximize results for experienced natural bodybuilders?
Gotmilkyy 8y ago
Did you ever have problems with Overhead press? Every time I try the workout at the lowest weight possible, like even 25 lb bar my left shoulder has a sharp pain in it. I've googled it, asked others, and they all just tell me to keep trying.
boredguy93 8y ago
your not doing it behind the neck are you? that'll snap your shit up real quick.
My advice for beginners is always take shit slow, warm up, and dont injure your back or shoulders! that'll stay with you for life!
metallica11 8y ago
Great easy to digest, relevant advice
Point #5 cannot be re-iterated more. I dropped supplements (even whey) over a year ago and I noticed NO change in progress. I used freak about getting enough protein and in a certain time window, so I would buy whey protein to get my 1gram per pound of body weight. I dropped the whey, moved down to .75 gram per pound of body-weight, and stopped caring so much about eating windows and NOTHING has changed.
kaledius 8y ago
Yep Exactly, there are a lot, A LOT of widespread myths in bodybuilding universe. I simply just tried nearly everything out therefore by myself to see what really is right and wrong. I went against all the common myths to test everything, yeah and I got much better results than average.
What a journey.. one of the things is real protein sources are "wheeeeey" better than whey. I noticed that immediately and I track everything. Muscles are fuller and bigger, you also feel fuller even if it is the same calories. So yeah Whey is only good if it is necessary., it can get real expensive to eat a lot of real source protein too. My final question now is: how much protein do I really need and I must test that soon.
This is no easy subject as there are literally ZILLIONZ of contradicting advice on this very critical issue. I believe it is 1,8grams per kg but Only testing with my own body can tell ... I started a couple of days ago
luloalonsete 8y ago
I agree 100% that food is way better than whey protein. They are called supplements for a reason, they do help a bit but they won't do miracles. However for some people like me it is hard to count protein grams or eat a lot so protein shakes help a lot in that regard. In my experience (beeing an ectomorph and having gain around 15 kgs of weight) supplements do help, not by a mile, but they they really do stuff.
PushTheBigRedButtons 8y ago
Personally I don't notice more gains, but I definitely started having less muscle pain the next few days after I started taking protein shakes. It really helps my recovery.
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Draki1903 8y ago
Protein window is IMO a myth invented only so that people don't actually forget to eat their protein.
rpscrote 8y ago
its not a myth, but the "1-hour window" totally is. Alan Aragon has a research review dedicated to the topic. It's pretty conclusive. The TL:DR; is that a trained athlete (= intermediate lifter and up) will see increased protein synthesis as a result of the workout (e.g. the so-called 'anabolic window) for ~24 hours after properly lifting.
Novices have the window stay open as long 3 days.
Steroid use can make the window stay open for much longer but the particulars aren't quantified due to the difficulty is studying naughty things like roids.
The only caveat is that if you're lifting 100% fasted, you should get some protein near the work out period.
DarkExecutor 8y ago
I don't think we fully understand it so it's a bit false to call it a myth just yet.
Redasshole 8y ago
As a nutritionist, I can assure you science does.
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metallica11 8y ago
My calories increased a little (since I actually gained some muscle mass- not noob gains). Fat % remains around 10-12%.
Time and Money is why. I have other goals other than lifting that consume vast amounts of time (and require saving money). There is a certain cut-off point. Every bit of time I save adds up.
Purecorrupt 8y ago
If you mix whey with water it's only what... 160 calories? Multiply by 3 or 4 workout days that's 480-640 calories. I would think that would be unnoticable to someone that isn't counting all of their calories.
If you consume 20k calories a week 640 is only 3% of your weekly calorie consumption. Or if you say you have 21 meals a week.. 30 calories spread over 21 meals.
So as long as he still consumed enough protein I can see how he didn't notice any changes.
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Purecorrupt 8y ago
I'm not a nutritionist... But isn't protein more of a use it or lose it thing? It would not matter if he was at .75 or 1.00 if he was excess at .65.
ycthrow 8y ago
Just so I understand this correctly.
Greyskull LP is made up of the 2-3 exercises per session. yes?
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Zebleblic 8y ago
Keeping a log of what you did isn't for two days ago. It's for two months ago. It lets you keep track of how you are progressing.
LionLaw 8y ago
Bookmarking this, excellent read and good information
Donny577 8y ago
"If you wish to supplement your diet, whey protein and creatine monohydrate is about all you should invest in" I don't know how to quote my bad. I wouldn't say that is all you should invest in but depending on someones financial situation and age if you're lets say 20+ and you work a job that includes standing thats physically demanding, or maybe you didn't sleep much one day. Get pre-workout and make sure it has NO CREATINE. Creatine isn't necessary to buy honestly just makes you look bigger if thats what you're aiming for sure go ahead but if you want the aesthetic look don't get it. If you get protein and you're bulking get Whey Protein with a good amount of carbs. If you're cutting and you want to put those macros in get Isolate protein with a 1 or 2 grams of carbs. But like I said it depends on you're financial situation.
[deleted] 8y ago
I knew all those meat heads were supercompensating for something.
Nice write up. You do anything with trigger points? I roll like crazy and have developed a ton of ways to release knotted tissues which can kill your form.
magus678 8y ago
Good post.
I realize it is a bit out of the scope of what you are saying, but I could use some advice on 2 (possibly related) issues. I seem to be having trouble getting my right scapula to (I think) upwardly rotate. It has always been a little wonky for me when overhead pressing, but lately I have had significantly reduced mobility. As in, one arm can be completely vertical shoulder to ear, while the other is more like 2 o'clock.
There's no pain, and if I simply move that arm with the other, it can go into position as long as I hold it there. So it seems to be some kind of weakness/tightness somewhere, but I cant seem to nail it down; face pulls and serratus work doesn't seem to be doing the trick and I have tried to lacrosse ball to loosen up the area to no real effect.
Second problem is that one side of my back is significantly thicker than the other; the thicker side also happens to be the side with the scapula issue. I have some mild scoliosis, not sure if that is to blame. I don't notice a massive strength difference between the two when doing dumbbell rows, which is actually a little surprising considering the visual difference between the two.
I realize it is probably tough to know just via text, but you or /u/GayLubeOil have any words of wisdom?
Ronin11A 8y ago
Outside the scope of what I can appraise. I would see a medical professional.
rockumsockumrobots 8y ago
Great post, thank you for this.
Instead of increasing my weight 5lbs each session, could I just do 1 more set for total volume, or will that stunt my progress by not increasing actual strength?
Thanks.
Ronin11A 8y ago
I answered this in my OP. Both would work, though as a beginner I would lead with increasing the weight.
[deleted] 8y ago
I know the benefits of lifting, but I'm pretty overweight atm. Should I concentrate on dropping the excess first, then building? I'm 6'1 / 270 if that's any indication how fat I am. I did a super low carb / high protein / mod fat diet for a while last year and dropped from 300 to 270 pretty quick, just kind of been hanging out there.
nuferasgurd 8y ago
Keep cutting. Start Lifting and On your off days do either yoga/some form of stretching, swim, or hiit.
coolwords 8y ago
I am by no means an expert, but I was 6' / 220 and dropped to 170 over about 6 months with nothing but 3 minutes of cardio to warm up and a shitton of lifting heavy things in my program. Factor in the few pounds of noob gains I made as well and that's a whole lot of fat loss. I kept on eating a lot too. Just focused on eating well and cutting out excess sugar and useless calories which provided no meaningful nutrition in general.
My two cents: focus on building the lean mass underneath. The fat will go as you start burning more calories just by being, and keep at it with your new lifestyle.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Damn thanks man. That's a shitload of info!
[deleted] 8y ago
I would recommend focusing on weight loss first. You will build muscle while you loose weight. Usually you will start losing then possibly plateau or gain back weight, but that is muscle weight. Keep your goal at a 500 calorie deficiency per day.
fullhalf 8y ago
yea you're way too fat to start lifting. it would be pointless. you should diet like crazy with low calories and do HIIT. i used to know some fat guys who say they can lose weight by lifting but of course you can't. they say that because lifting is way easier and less painful than cardio but it doesn't burn that much energy compared to HIIT. you can lift and eat less and lose weight but your muscles won't grow without extra calories so whats the point? there are a lot of beginners HIIT programs out there that you can do but HIIT is one of the hardest workouts out there. that's why it's so effective. basically, do it until you feel like you'll die then stop. don't worry about reps and time limits. get down to about 220 then start lifting. don't confuse HIIT with cardio like jogging. both will hurt your chest and can make you feel like you're dying but only one of them makes your muscles tired. the tired muscles is what's going to burn fat while you rest.
Interversity 8y ago
You could try keto (ideally 0, potentially up to 10-20g carbs/day). Well known for solid fat loss results. If that doesn't work out, you can also look at other stuff like intermittent fasting and fasted cardio.
rpscrote 8y ago
IF and fasted cardio can be done in conjunction with keto if you want too
Snivellious 8y ago
The general rule promoted on places like r slash fitness calls for "strength first", bulking before you cut no matter what. I think that's wrong for you.
Losing weight is harder the further you have to go (you build up more fat cells, among many other hurdles), and you see more side effects and maintenance issues (e.g. skin sag if you're cutting super fast). If you cut first, you can avoid all that.
You can improve form and refine a diet no matter what your calorie balance is, and a lot of the early part of lifting is making that progress, totally aside from muscle mass.
For someone in your position, it's also possible to get improve strength while losing weight. "Beginner gains" come fairly quickly, and you can probably see them even while cutting. You have stored energy that you can free up (i.e. burning fat), and the energy from both food and fat can be expended filling those newfound needs for muscle.
So my advice, and I'm not OP, is that you're likely best off focusing on weight loss first, while building habits the habits of eating right and working out regularly.
[deleted] 8y ago
You guys are fucking excellent, thanks. It's gonna be tough, no lie. I've been hiding in pc games for the last 15 years, so I'm pretty much starting at the bottom. I did remember to take a day 1 pic so I can see progress (forgot last time). I love me some beautiful women, and just "being myself" isn't going to do shit for me. Time to get off my ass and put in the time to improve my self. Even if I never get laid from anything I do, I'm still healthier and feel better about myself. It's win-win.
fydorm 8y ago
Stick with that diet and start lifting. You may not see your weight change, but you'll be slowly changing your body composition. It's a lot harder to gain muscle than it is to lose fat, so get started now. The increased testosterone levels will even help with taking the fat off.
[deleted] 8y ago
Sounds good. Co-worker is a part time trainer, gonna have then show me proper forms for stronglifts later this week so I don't kill myself. My plan is to do those 3 days and then on my off days bang out a couple miles to help keep up the deficit.
rpscrote 8y ago
If you are pressed for time (which it sounds like you are) cut out cardio. It's very time consuming for very few calories actually burned and impedes muscle gain if you do it too much. It's the least time efficient way of working out bar none.
Lift heavy 3-4x a week and maintain a calorie deficit. You can't outrun a bad diet so you have to fix it one way or the other.
ThisShitRules 8y ago
Don't run. It's a misconception that you need to run if you want to lose weight.
It's actually a bit counterproductive in your state, because you are overweight and running is high-impact activity, which means that the force of you with all your weight impacting the ground is absorbed by you knees.
Just walk.
If you want someone with authority behind this read these blogs form Lift-Run-Bang. (also follow him on fb, he's spewing gold all the time. About training on this page and some RP shit on his personal acc)
Top 4 things you could be doing better pt. 2. Also read pt.1, it lays out the diet pretty well.
Conditioning.
[deleted] 8y ago
Oh no, I walk. Running is tough on the knees if you're tall as it is, being fat just exacerbates it. I turn the speed and incline up enough to keep me around 140 bpm.
w4rtortle 8y ago
Really good plan man, hope it works out for you!
el_superbeastooo 8y ago
Good call on the off days cardio. I did the same thing and dropped about 65 pounds, then added about 15 of muscle, currently at about 210 at 6" 1 right now. Only tip I can give you is not to drop too much weight before really lifting heavy.
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slay_it_forward 8y ago
Youre going to be weak sore and pathetic...but stick with it. In a month you wont want to miss a day.
[deleted] 8y ago
As my good friend Peter Gibbons said, Fuckin A.
fullhalf 8y ago
sounds like you're goin to go the lifting route. i can guarantee you that you will achieve your goal faster with dieting and HIIT everyday compared to lifting 3-4 times a week.
ProductivityMonster 8y ago
HIIT might hurt the guy in his current state. Also, he'll be left looking flabby without weightlifting simultaneously. He's changing body composition more with this (aerobic+weightlifting) way so it will take longer. More focus should be on aerobics when you are very overweight, but you also need to weightlift 2-3x/week so you don't lose too much muscle mass. Then when he gets his weight under control (overweight but not medically obese), he can switch to HIIT + weightlifting without hurting himself.
theseanteam 8y ago
Why did you stop the diet?
Also it's never too early to start working out. You can wait forever for the right time if you don't start today.
[deleted] 8y ago
Got super busy with work, moving across town, and starting school. Shitty excuses.
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[deleted] 8y ago
15 credit hours + 40 hours work week is a lot, especially if you haven't been to school in 15 years. But as I said, shitty excuses.
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[deleted] 8y ago
I am not letting myself make them anymore. I'm scaling back a touch on my classes, I can't pay as much attention to everything as I like with that many. I was close to not getting As in everything. Now I blow off steam in the gym for an hour (30 mins on my 14 hour work days) instead of the vidya.
fullhalf 8y ago
umm yea. i think i'm gonna pass on that one.
Claude_Reborn 8y ago
I have been lifting for about 6 months and I feel that I am hitting the limits of what Stronglifts can do for me in terms of gains.
Reading your method descriptions I think I might drop the weight 10% and double the reps for each set. I did that a while back when I realized I had picked up some bad form habits and had to re correct things. Overall this will increase my training volume by a substantial amount, without the issues I am currently having. Mainly I am developing soreness between my shoulder blades due to a genetic spinal condition.
I am close to body weight squats now (110kg of 115kg) but I am having issues with my OH press as I can't seem to crack 50kg. Struggling with Bench increases too, as I am stuck at 67.5kg.
So I'll drop back to 100/45/60 and double the reps. 10x100x5 is 5 metric tons, which is better than 2,750 in a set of normal stronglifts.
I've made leaps and gains (See what I did there?) with just having a really good diet. I have used zero supplements and just make sure that I eat plenty of slow burning protein daily so I can build gains as part of the recovery phase.
Also, everyone should get their Vit D tested. I was shocked at how low mine was. I was 32 out of a possible 100, which was critically bad.
In the weeks after starting high amounts of Vit D supplements, my weight went up nearly 2kg, in muscle and bone mass. You NEED vit D for bone mass. You'll end up with injuries if your D levels are low and you start lifting.
Sepean 8y ago
Stronglifts is a beginner's program.
Claude_Reborn 8y ago
which is what I was / am.
Now I am changing to keep improving.
MrDruid 8y ago
Are you affiliated with Ronin Tactics? Just a guess from your username, and that guy's fucking jacked.
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[deleted] 8y ago
This guy comes off knowledgeable, but fails to reach the margin. Whey protein is 100% worth the money for those of who can't reach those meal margins. Very inexpensive alternative.
Ronin11A 8y ago
It's not worth the money when half the powders on the market a jam packed with fillers and don't actually have the amount of protein on the label. MusclePharm recently got hit with huge lawsuits for spiking their Iron Whey.
AndreNowzick 8y ago
it's worth it for convenience. When you're tired and don't feel like cooking and want to reach your protein requirements for the day. When a good sale comes by, you can get quality protein for cheap – say $30/5 lbs for instance.
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Peow_peow 8y ago
keep your mouth shut and do something productive faggot
648262 8y ago
You need to use your words to tell us exactly what your problem with these things are.
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Ronin11A 8y ago
Aw, I'm sorry, did I trigger you?
NiceTryDisaster 8y ago
Hi great post.
I have a question though for /u/Ronin11A and /u/gaylubeoil
How should I program heavy lifts with accessory work?
A system like PHAT or PHUL with separate days for heavy lifts and separate days for volume work?
Doing heavy works + accessory work for a muscle group in the same workout. For example 5 x 5 heavy bench followed by db pressing and cable exercises on a chest day?
Thank you guys.
Ronin11A 8y ago
There are any number of ways to do it. PHAT has you split it into days; I used a model from Eric Cressey where I did 3x3 on the big lifts (squat, bench, dead, press), then did 3x8-10 on assistance work in the same session.
I'm not a fan of block periodization (heavy month, followed by high volume month). By the time you begin to achieve some meaningful adaptation to the heavy work, you go and fuck it up with the volume work. By the time you return to heavy stuff, you've lost that previous adaptation and start from scratch. I personally prefer the PHAT or Texas Method model, where you have a volume day and a heavy day in the same week.
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pm0ney 8y ago
I'm going to lay out my situation, and maybe someone will have some advice more me.
A few months ago after finding this place, I was very overweight, 6'3 and 350lbs. Since then, I'm down to 280lbs simply by changing my diet, not too much exercise. I cut my daily intake to about 1700-1800kcl, maybe less somedays, more more. I mostly just added guidelines to what I ate.
I'm afraid I lost the weight to quickly and too carelessly, and now my body has adjusted to this lower calorie intake. I'm determined to fix this problem by regularly lifting and sticking to a plan.
How would you structure a diet while lifting, and trying to lose body fat?
w4rtortle 8y ago
Find the maintenance calories for the weight you want to be at and eat that every day. Try to make each meal: 100-200grams of a lean protein source, 1 cup or so carbs and healthy fat. Eat enough small meals to hit your goal. Green stuff is optional. Dont eat sugar or fat. Drink lots of water.
Eloni 8y ago
It's pretty simple and straightforward (though not easy ). Since you've found your maintenance level, stick to it but add lifting 3x a week. When you stall again, or around 12 weeks later, add 2 hiit days (I'd recommend 4 sets of tabata with hillsprints, battleropes, kettlebells). When you stall again, or around 12 weeks later, add 30 min of steady state cardio before breakfast. Start with one day the first week, increase by a day every week.
Schedule a deload/rest and recovery week after the first 12 weeks, then every sixth after that (the eight weeks after you add cardio.)
Get a minimum of 7h of sleep, aim for 9.
Slow and steady increase all the way, don't get over eager, especially when doing hiit. Injuries will set you back more that a missed day.
After nine months take stock of how far you've come, and decide where to go from there. The recalibrate every 3-4 months.
w4rtortle 8y ago
That is not simple or straight forward and literally has no information about diet.
Eloni 8y ago
?
That's pretty much the diet advice needed, when that's his maintenance level without training, and he said he's gonna start training. Doesn't get much simpler than that.
FallenHighSchoolJock 8y ago
Honestly training for a martial art with intense sparring like BJJ or Kickboxing would probably benefit you more. Doing those things have taught me far more about myself and built my confidence way more than just lifting weights. Just check out bodybuilding forum's misc, there are tons of incels who lift.
musclehacking 8y ago
My favourite section by far was the one on diet. Not a single mention of the whole "sugar is evil" crap or any other over generalized rules ("carbs are the devil").
This is exactly what a beginner needs. A hierarchy of priorities. There is no use advocating keto/fasting/whatever to a complete beginner - it's just going to confuse them. Let the basics sink in and get them on a running start before you get into the nitty-gritty.
Don't overcomplicate shit, just do it.
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Ronin11A 8y ago
Hypertrophy levels will end up approximately the same. Strength levels will be higher on the 5x5, but your workouts will go a lot more quickly on the 3x10 or 4x8.
PaulAJK 8y ago
Great read.
I don't want to de-rail the thread, but did anyone else have aching pain in their knees when they started squatting? I've been lifting for a while but only started squats a couple of weeks ago. My knees have developed a kind of dull ache.
I might have over-done it, and I'm in my forties so I have to be a bit careful. I want to know if other people have experienced the same thing and the ache went away, or if they haven't andI need to drop the squats and deadlifts.
dmagne 8y ago
FYI ignore all the other bullshit, you're going to hear a lot of crap about how squats are great with the right form etc. etc. Behind every story about how squats can be done safely without permanent musculoskeletal damage is a guy with 2 disc herniations and a blown out knee. I had to get a double discectomy after herniation, worked with one of the top orthopaedic surgeons for almost a year and his assessment of squatting and deadlifting was keep doing it because it's making him rich.
Seriously at your age there is 0 reason to take this risk. The ramifications for a major injury (which are common for those exercises) are LIFE CHANGING. After everything I've been through after my injury I can't think of anything less worth the ordeal and permanent maiming than having "big thighs" or being "jacked" or whatever the fuck.
There is no magical lifting form that is going to save your joints from the massive stresses you're going to subject them to. It's not worth it.
Cum_on_doorknob 8y ago
Check out Alan Thrall's squat video on YouTube, he goes into amazing detail.
An_All-Beef_Engineer 8y ago
See Mark Rippetoe's instructional on Squats. OP may be right in that your form may be off.
Praecipuus 8y ago
If your knees hurt, the problem is most certainly your form.
You know all those videos on youtube teaching how to squat "properly"? They are great, but everyone is a specific case and your hips/knee structure might be that much different from the average that forcing the "template form" on them makes things hurt.
Try squatting in front of a mirror, the way it feels natural to you (without the bar), and check whether that's too far off the way you have been doing. If that happens, you might want to reconsider adapting your form to what feels "right" to you.
Moneybags99 8y ago
Its also possible you are experiencing some muscle soreness near the knees. If you're not recovering properly then consider more rest, more protein.
king_of_red_alphas 8y ago
I had this exact issue as my work weight approached my body weight a couple of weeks ago. I'm also in my 40's.
What it was for me (as others have said) was my tendency to over project my knees over my toes. As soon as I focused on favoring my heels as much as possible on the way up and down the pain was gone within a week.
Flexibility helps a lot with this as tight musculature is going to make keeping the right form harder. In my case my hamstrings are ridiculously tight. I absolutely have to do a solid stretching warm up or I just don't feel right doing squats or deads.
I also found that light foam rolling around the knees has helped.
It's good to keep in mind that, although your goals are the same, you will need some slight adjustments in a routine based on your age and lifestyle. In your 40's I would imagine form is even more important.
I'm doing SL but probably going to have to switch to only squatting twice a week because the impact on my CNS is so intense and I do 2 of my 3 weekly workouts over long lunch during the work week.
Anyway, tldr - keep the weight off of your knees and as others have said, when dropping down with the weight always stick your butt out first before the knees do anything.
Primemale 8y ago
Seriously try some glucosamine (hydrochloride, ideally) and some omega 3. countless people I know I have advised this to and it completely vanished (me included) Your welcome.
Edit: post your results with it after a couple of weeks, will help out others who see this thread in future.
PaulAJK 8y ago
OP here...
Thanks for all your responses, and, yeah, I was letting my knees go too far forward and not concentrating on putting the weight on my ankles. And I'll get some omega 3 oil.
Gelu_sf 8y ago
If you experience pain in the front of the knee below or near the patella check if you push on the middle or tip of your sole when getting up from a squat.
You should have the whole foot flat on the ground and actually push on the heel area to do it correctly. Pushing it on the tip will shift the whole weight of the body on your patellar tendon instead of using the upper leg and gluteus muscles.
Finally, check if your feet are on the ground parallel and at hip distance when you do squats, or else you will stress either the lateral muscles or any lateral tendons.
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Metalgear222 8y ago
make sure your butt goes backwards first (bend from the hip) before your knee bends, feel the hamstring stretch. Your weight should always be on your heels with your knees hovering in a straight line directly over the ankles. Never let your weight shift forward enough to where you're on the balls of your feet.
rpscrote 8y ago
disagree on butt backwards first as a hard and fast rule. I understand this is the stock advice but it doesn't work for all body types. I did it this way for literally about 4 years. My squat kept plateauing and my low back would get extremely sore while my ass and quads were only lightly sore.
I started squatting breaking at the knees first (but NOT shifting weight forward -- stay on your heels). The knees just for a second go slightly forward then stay in place. The end result is you can squat to depth with your back staying much more upright. I also turn my toes out ever so slightly more. Low bar position on shoulders too, btw. My squat more closely resembles a powerlifting squat now where you really drop down into the pocket. Width of the stance seems more important with how im doing it now compared to before. Too narrow and too wide both feel like more pressure at the knee so you have to find the goldilocks spot.
Literally the first time I did this my lower back soreness was completely gone and my squat is finally progressing again.
I'm narrow chested, narrow hips, lanky and tall by nature and the youtube video that led me to fix my form was by a similarly proportioned guy.
tl:dr; butt back first is not always best. You have to try a few tweaks to narrow in on what is mechanically best for your particular body
Ronin11A 8y ago
If your knees are aching, something in your form is off. You've probably given yourself patellar tendonitis, and will have to back off for a bit. As you get older, you really have to watch your volume and form, especially if you're coming from a long, drawn out sedentary period.
Without evaluating your form in person, my suggestion would be to back off, focus on your joint health and mobility (yoga is a good resource here), and then start again. Mobility WOD also has a lot of resources for improving movement.
ErasmusOrgasmus 8y ago
OP is correct, most likely a form issue /u/PaulAJK. Bad knees run in both sides of my family, all of my immediate family suffer to varying degrees. I suffer quite badly when running or playing sports on hard surfaces and my brother dislocated his knees almost 10 times. Yet I have never had any problems squatting. It is a mechanically efficient movement for the knees.
Obviously it's impossible to diagnose what's wrong remotely but I would suggest looking at the angle of your knees when you squat. They should be pointing outwards slightly (as should your feet) rather than straight forward. Starting Strength covers this well. Failing that, perhaps you are triggering the upward phase of the squat incorrectly by pushing down against the floor from the knees when you should rather be 'pulling yourself upwards by your arse as if there were a pulley attached to your coccyx pulling directly upwards' (again, read Starting Strength. Rippetoe's explanation is fantastic and I'm just paraphrasing him here).
fullhalf 8y ago
why do everybody and their mama point to form being the problem? he's probably just squating too much. his muscles maybe strong enough but his joints and tendons aren't used to it.
Cyralea 8y ago
Going off this, this is doubly true for naturally thin guys. Very easy to get tendon tears as you're bulking, there's only so much load you can put on them.
Good way to avoid injury for a lot of workouts is to simply avoid hyperextension. Some people swear up and down that you need the full range of motion to get the benefits, but it's not true, and it's safer.
mrdobie 8y ago
I'm a skinny guy with weak legs. Wondering should I do leg presses with machine first to increase my quads and thigh muscles?
rpscrote 8y ago
no. go straight to squats. Not because the squats are per se better but because guys who "start on leg press to build up for squat" never end up squatting. They just keep coming up with excuses why not to, or they get too ego invested in the appearance of big numbers on the leg press machine.
the primary benefit of the squat is mental imo, its tough and doing it to proper depth with proper form is tougher still. So it feels great when you get it. dont deny yourself the achievement
Ronin11A 8y ago
No, you should do goblet squats until you can squat the barbell, then progress in barbell squats.
CQC3 8y ago
Abso-fuckin-lutely. I can't stress enough how correct that is. I'm also a pretty skinny jointed guy, and I've suffered a decent amount of aches and pains and distress from having my shit fucked up from going too hard too fast--even in amounts that normal people would probably get off okay.
The issue is sedentary living and tight muscles. If you're going to start squatting I also recommend doing goblet squats as they teach you proper form and by nature of the exercise you learn to keep your back tight and not rounded.
Don't try to start with something even close to your max, pick a weight that you can do at least 8-10 safe reps with for 2-3 sets. The first two weeks or so I'd play it safe and just do the movements and condition your body to use those muscles in that way. Then, start cranking the numbers up.
The barbell should be about 45 lbs but I'd take your goblet up to 50 or 55. I personally think the goblet squat is easier, the weight distribution was kinder, at least to me. I have long legs though.
Also: invest in a foam roller, saved my life.
mrdobie 8y ago
Thanks ronin. Never even heard about it till now. That's awesome. So I shouldn't even bother with Leg presses?
Ronin11A 8y ago
Leg press is fine for pump work, and will help you build overall mass because again volume is volume. But any strength you gain on the leg press won't translate over to your squat.
RubbeRNL 8y ago
What is your view on doing "lower reps" at "slow speeds" with "higher weights" regarding isolation exercises like curls ? One could increase the weight faster, because your doing less reps, but your also increasing the time you put tension on the muscle and completely avoid "momentum" ?
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11cupsofcoldbrew 8y ago
You HARDLY study biomechanics.. GTFO!! ♂
Geleemann 8y ago
I'm currently doing my Master's involving those topics. What are your thoughts on recovery times for hypertrophy, and strength?
From the scientific readings and lecture notes I've been reading It doesn't seem necessary to really have 90s, or less for hypertrophy. You can do those interval times, but it isn't better necessarily.
blacwidonsfw 8y ago
Maybe you can help me out. Most posts on here are for beginner weight lifters. I already got most of this covered and I would say im intermediate.
My problem is I am starting to peak out. I am not increasing weight every week but maybe a few pounds a month (besides squats). Im 176 pounds 6'1, Bench (5x5: 200, 1rm 225), Squat (5x5 200, 1RM 225), Deadlift (5x5 315, 1rm (=385).
I have been changing up my workouts. I eat a lot of carbs and protein (free b/l/d at work so I pig out). I definitely look stronger and people notice, but I am getting discouraged I am not making steady strength gains.
Any advice? Should I switch to High reps for a bit?
11cupsofcoldbrew 8y ago
I highly recommend Sheiko programming. If you have an iPhone, there's an app that will do all the number crunching and programming for you. I use it for myself and never plateaued.
If you can afford it, I'd recommend finding a qualified strength coach in your area.
Itslegday 8y ago
Strength is usually achieved at lower reps, higher weight (85%+ 1RM) hypertrophy if I remember correctly will be between 65-85%. Some strength coaches might go higher depending on the person. Look at Jonnie Candito's strength, Smolov, Jim Wendler 5/3/1, MadCow 5x5, Texas Method. All of these are strength programs.
Ronin11A 8y ago
An intermediate lifter is defined as by their inability to progress from workout to workout. I would look into a program like 5/3/1 or The Texas Method and run that for 3-6 months.
blacwidonsfw 8y ago
Thanks for the advice. I think I will try the texas method.
I looked up this page for texas method and looks like it has good info if anyone is interested:
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Ronin11A 8y ago
I would step it up slowly. Add 100-kcal each week, hold at maintenance for 2-3 weeks, then step into the surplus.
[deleted] 8y ago
Funny. You suggest people use whey powder in the same sentence you accuse the supplement industry being poorly regulated. If you truly thought that through, you wouldn't have suggested people to use whey AT ALL because there's plenty of other ways to get your daily protein.
But still you suggest people take whey powder. Lol.
Aside from creatine and Vitamine d3. I would recommend Omega 3/6/9, ZMA (highly potent combination of zinc, vitamin b6 and magnesium), Arganine + citrulline malate (cheap as fuck, boosts erection + semen volume if thats your thing, also gives you a better pump and will lead to increased vascularity)
Cum_on_doorknob 8y ago
Whey is food, yes, it's a "supplemental food" but I think he means things like some plant chemical extra, blah blah...
Ronin11A 8y ago
No, I suggest that if you are going to take supplements, you limit it to whey and creatine.
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Ronin11A 8y ago
Fair point. I'll clarify that.
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musclehacking 8y ago
Unless you have something to add to that statement, he's already covered your point (see below).
McLarenX 8y ago
A little too much AMOG. Calisthenics can give you some serious gains. Pull ups and push ups at various angles can work your muscles good as well as burpees. Don't be so cocky when you write posts like this. Lifting is great but there's more than just that to being physically fit. Honestly I get more girls looking at me when I do my 3 mile run than when I do my weight training.
A lot of guys just do weights because, honestly, it's easier than running and doing pullups. Overall athleticism is a better long term goal in my opinion.
Edit: I am not advising NOT to lift but to focus on overall health and athleticism instead of reading dumb bro-science stuff. Lifting is very good but you should be doing some cardio and calisthenics too.
TheJedi_Lied 8y ago
I've trained calisthenics for a while and wanted to put in my two cents:
Calisthenic exercises have their place and purpose, just like weights have their place and purpose. One arm pullups, (freestanding) handstand pushups and front lever rows are difficult exercises. Pressing exercises on rings are surprisingly difficult to people that have never tried them b/c of the stabilizing component. If you want to try something new, I'd recommend some dips on rings.
I discovered that pistol squats and various jumps/running/sprints are not a good substitute for squats and deadlifts when it comes to building strength/bulking. I prefer a bar and iron. Plus, there's something about bench pressing heavy weight that's a lot more visceral than one arm pushups.
If you want to vary your routine or feel weights are at/near a plateau, give it a try. It's a good place to start if you've never lifted weights as well. Calisthenics are different in a good way. A well placed handstand pushup might even get you laid (from experience).
Exercising is the most important, thanks for preaching the word OP.
ItIsMyPrivilege 8y ago
I do weighted pullups, dips, etc. Calistetics don't really generate enough muscle growth. Weights allow you to target specific muscle groups and put them under more stress. Body weight workouts are good as a base, but there is no reason to skip weights.
That's also great people look at you when you do your 3 mile run. They look at me when I jog to the gym too, doesn't mean I should stop lifting.
I hate faggots who knock lifting for whatever reason. There is no better way to build muscle and being more muscular enhances the way the vast majority of people treat you.
That's great it works for you, but posts like this lead newbie lazy bitches to think they can fuck around with a lame body weight workout instead of brutalizing their body in the weight room. I wanted to reply and say that is not the case, call me gronk but go lift weights or go fuck yourself
McLarenX 8y ago
Oh no, lifting is awesome, i lift 4 days a week. However I hate cocky dudes who say lifting is the end-all and everything else sucks. That's simply not true.
It's much better to focus on overall athleticism than anything else. There's plenty of fatties that lift big weights and never get laid.
musclehacking 8y ago
The post is titled "The Red Piller's Guide to Weight Training" for fuck sake. He even specifically pointed out special snowflake replies such as this - and you still went and wrote out a couple paragraphs to pat yourself on the back?
Jesus Christ.
McLarenX 8y ago
Quit being a beta and supporting your alpha.
CoyoteeBongwater 8y ago
if you are not a troll, u really need to reevaluate how you see yourself. Stop for one second, read that as just a statement not an insult. now,
You created an entire argument for no reason, like a woman...
You wrote about op's "cockiness" but wrote several replies involving your very impressive lifting 4 days a week and sprinting 5 a week, seeming hypocritical, like a woman...
You responded to op's very straightforward replies in a bad way, he was very logically explaining why you just made a fool of yourself and you took it personally, like a woman...
i wrote "like a woman" to try and make it more obvious these were all bad things. this is why i say evaluate what you think before saying it, you can't really defend any of this and were oblivious to how dumb you acted.
McLarenX 8y ago
Learn basic sentence structuring.
CoyoteeBongwater 8y ago
http://i.imgur.com/DfFAZMF.gif
Ronin11A 8y ago
I wrote:
You wrote:
Congratulations. You are the textbook example of why I wrote that whole paragraph.
[deleted] 8y ago
Saying that calisthenetics will get you ripped as fuck is like saying sprinting will get you big like Usain Bolt.
These gymnasts you're thinking of are going at it for hours and hours every day, they LIVE to sport. Also, they probably roid.
If you want to get big, just lift & eat big.
McLarenX 8y ago
Cool. I will bask in your knowledge. You are much more knowledgeable than the combined knowledge of the US Marine Corps and several Olympic sports, all of whom do calisthenics. This was never an attempt to make yourself look good and brag about how much you know and attempt to be funny in an asshole-ish way. Of course not.
Ronin11A 8y ago
Wow, butthurt much?
I specifically wrote that this post was not about discussing the merits of lifting weights versus calisthenics, and that I didn't want the discussion derailed with that tired argument. If you want to contribute a post of equal detail on why I'm wrong and calisthenics are the shit, go for it...just not here.
And as a five-year veteran of the US military, do you want to know why CrossFit exploded in popularity amongst Marines, Rangers, and SF? Because it was superior to just running 4-6 miles a day and doing lots of pull ups and push ups.
I'm glad you're happy with running 3-miles and doing calisthenics. But that was never the point; your lack of reading comprehension was.
McLarenX 8y ago
I do lift 4 days a week but calisthenics and running are just as important to my workouts. Lifting will ultimately be the core of your muscular gains but cardio is extremely important for overall health and calisthenics are also very important for building bodyweight strength and flexibility. To be honest telling beginners to lift if they can't even run or do push ups is a little self defeating. Having beginners do heavy powerlifting if they can't do bodyweight squats or situps is a bit silly too. I'm really not planning on arguing further because I just got off working 20 hours but I just thought I'd clarify my point.
Eatbig-getbig 8y ago
He wrote a guide on lifting so it's about lifting..
648262 8y ago
Sleep on this, come back and read the OP again, then clarify what you're on about. In a new post.
That's how we grow.
TheWittyWarlock 8y ago
This guy does so much cardio he won't give up...
McLarenX 8y ago
Try it sometime. Might lose your beer gut.
McLarenX 8y ago
I do 25 minutes 5 days a week at high intensity according to the standards of the Marine corps officer program
[deleted]
Veganski 8y ago
Just shut the fuck up, nobody cares you twat
McLarenX 8y ago
"Twat". Very creative insult, I suggest you become a contributing author for the encyclopedia brittanica with such a powerful intellect.