Links to my other LTR Game articles:
LTR Game Part 2: Building the Foundation
LTR Game Part 3: Unicorn Hunter Checklist
LTR Game Part 4: Positive Masculinity
LTR Game Part 5: Love and Power
LTR Game Part 6: Egalitarianism and Ownership
LTR Game Part 7: Permission and Privelege
LTR Game Part 8: Leadership and Support
You will be the calm. You will be the calm before the storm, the calm at the center of the storm, and the calm that inevitably destroys the storm.
As is often said here in every context with regard to women, maintaining frame is crucial to the stability and enduring attraction in a relationship. This will be a subjective account of my thoughts on the topic. If you are cynical on LTR's or don't desire one yourself, feel free to move along. Otherwise, feedback and discussion is greatly encouraged.
I'm a big supporter of LTR's for myself. I've never lacked in success with women and never had a thick set of beta traits that hamstrung my goals, but I also didn't always succeed. Some of the ways in which I absolutely failed before was maintaining frame. A man needs to be perceived as strong and immovable in what he wants, at all times, even if this sometimes ruffles feathers. The discomfort a woman may experience over your stubbornness is almost always temporary but comes down to the issues you're being stubborn about, don't be a stubborn jackass over anything and everything like a temperamental child. When your partner gets a feel for how single-minded you are in procuring and protecting your genuine interests, she will eventually link this to your desire for her. As an aside I wouldn't advise telling your partner how seriously dedicated you are to them unless you also detail the consequences for shattering your expectations with things like disrespect, cheating, and good old mutiny. You are the captain, and if your crew attempts to subvert your authority, you will decisively correct and/or obtain a new crew.
This actually begs a metaphor that I've enjoyed and may help you understand relationships a bit better. You are the captain, and each of your two dozen crew members are different aspects of your partners personality. You encourage some to work harder, correct any of them that get out of line, and you work as a team to achieve your goals. This said, if there is a failure in your crew, then you have failed them in some way. For those who believe that women have no honor, are immature in their mindset, that they can never truly love you- then you should agree with me more than others who don't. You are 100% responsible for the ships successes and failures. If you fail to have a clear mission, to be seen as a successful and competent Captain, to look after the needs (not necessarily the wants) of each of your crew members, and reward your crew commensurately- you should not be surprised if you find yourself vying for control, or they leave entirely.
As is also often said here, you must establish an accurate image of what you want early on in the courtship process. This usually includes a heavy emphasis on sexuality as that's partially a requirement for men who agree to be tied down even if they actively seek a long term partner. It's easy to find a bad relationship with an unpreferable woman, I'm sure a majority of us have experienced this, but it's much different to find an appropriate or near optimal partner and be sure she falls in line to the tune of your desired relationship structure and goals for it.
I'm a stoic man, not a lot phases me, and I find this to be CRUCIAL to success. Consistently pulling and keeping your partner inside the frame of your expectations is great, but maintaining your own frame is of the UTMOST. You don't always need to be leading explicitly or trying to nudge your partner into compliance, you need to be put together well enough on your exterior that she desires to follow and doesn't need implicit or explicit nudging to meet your needs and desires- you want the crew that wishes to honor all the strength you show and give to them by association. Stoicism does not mean you have to be unemotional, but my expressions are strictly constrained to positive and neutral emotional states. Stoicism consistently exhibits a quiet strength that people notice, and it has subtle effects on the people around me. If you slip into more neutral behaviors like being quiet or slightly withdrawn, it's taken very seriously by people who respect you because they KNOW by experience that you're not given to emotional displays. Without much expressive effort on your part, your partner or anyone else who knows you will begin to think about what may be going through your mind, and will often seek to address.
As I said, the biggest way I've failed before was because of losing my frame, and dropping my stoicism as well as my leadership out of weakness was an enormous hinge to why my partners had lost respect for me because they had come to rely on that strength. When I stopped exhibiting only positive and neutral emotions, this consistently ruined the feeling that our relationship was a net positive, she had little patience for the new contrast. Even if this was not at all true in an objective sense, the feeling that I was failing meant I was a failure. The feeling that I was weak meant I was weak. The feeling that I was acting unnecessarily emotional meant I was unnecessarily emotional. If, as this sub posits so often, the feels dictate the actions of women and form the content of their opinions (see: rationalization hamster), then anything she thinks or feels of you is YOUR responsibility to inform by example. Don't think women can be objective? Then you already accept that EVERY failure is yours.
You have to be immovable so that she feels safe when her emotions roam, and to heed your guidance. She will be tied to your centered disposition, and you can always tug her back toward you to limit her stress and emotional fallout. I've insinuated myself so well that I don't have to do much in order to have this effect on my current relationship. Something as small as "Stop it." or "This isn't a big deal" is enough to encourage my partner to venture back toward the center, and reduce negative emotional content. In my relationship I always get her to ease up, and to rely on my strength and reason to help her every single time.
Maintaining frame is a dynamic thing, one can't be told PUA like steps to making sure you're on the straight and narrow. There are two primary points I want you to keep in mind at all times.
TL;DR
You are a man.
You are her captain.
Treat your crew well, but do not tolerate insubordination. Your behavior matters first and foremost, you are 100% responsible. Failure anywhere on the ship is your responsibility. Once negative behaviors are largely curtailed in favor of mutually constructive actions and respect, you can navigate and achieve much more successfully as a unit.
DCLdit 11y ago
This is great.
Written very well.
It reminds me of a book I pick up from time to time, "The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire" by David Deida.
In section 21 it says, "Stay with her intensity - to a point. When a woman gets emotionally intense, a mediocre man wants to calm her down and discuss it, or leave and come back later when she is "sane." A superior man penetrates her mood with imperturbable love and unwavering consciousness. If she still refuses to live more fully in love, after a time, he lets her go."
Cheers.
[deleted] 11y ago
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OccamsUsername 11y ago
Based on the reading I've done on your situation, I think you should start again.
If you don't think that's possible, or if you're too devoted to be willing to do that, then you need to make sure never to get there again if your current relationship ultimately fails. When you are no longer happy and change or improvement seems unlikely, you must move on and you must always be willing to do so.
specter504 11y ago
The hard part is finding a woman worth the effort. Seriously, I've dated one "RPW" who happened to be the only one I've ever met. Where can you find them?
OccamsUsername 11y ago
I'll be following up with more posts in an LTR Game series, including some selection criteria and some other suggestions on the "where to" front.
It's a difficult thing, but you don't need to find a perfect woman on the front end, you need to develop as a pair to see how "red pill" she actually can be. How a woman treats you or defers to you can be a WORLD of difference to how she has conducted herself before. Unicorns aren't strictly born, they're developed and maintained.
[deleted] 11y ago
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DaedalusFinch 11y ago
I find that it helps to have a "first mate" (in keeping with the metaphor) who's not your LTR to deal with the fractures in your personal morale. It's never going to be smooth sailing without a compassionate ear.
OccamsUsername 11y ago
That can absolutely be valuable, yes. But you would not disclose doubts, fears, insecurity and the like directly to your crew.
ThatFurbush 11y ago
The biggest mistake I made early in the Pill swallowing process was just being a prick all the time about everything, and creating conflict out of simple shit where there was no conflict, in order to counterbalance the Nice Guy shit I had previously been guilty of. Instead of easing into it, and reading the required materials, I listened to 3 or 4 episodes of BP, and thought I was Patrice Fucking O'Neal.
Immediately.
This did not make things better.
Lately, I've been picking my battles... It's been tough to change such a natural pattern of behavior. I shouldn't even fight battles... The only way to win is not to play, but she knows where every one of my buttons are. I'm scrambling to deactivate the buttons, and consistently maintain frame, but she's pushing them before I have a chance to unhook the wire.
I'm getting there... Great post. I think I just need to take one thing at a time, and maintaining frame should be my focus, until it comes naturally.
OccamsUsername 11y ago
A foundation fractured, decayed, or built poorly in the first place is a hard thing to contend with. Do your best, and hopefully you won't have to dismantle or abandon your current foundation to acquire the type of relationship you desire.
trplurker 11y ago
Almost everyone who goes from BP to RP goes through a part where they overdo it. It's natural cause at that time we're not yet calibrated and tend to overcompensate for it. It's not really possibly to skip this phase though, someone's gotta fail a few times first and then they are set. I lost access to quite a bit of ass cause I played asshole too hard.
SoftHarem 11y ago
Pay attention. This is how you get the hamster to work for you instead of against. You are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT responsible for the success or failure of any relationship with a woman.
[deleted] 11y ago
Depends on you define success. If by success you mean your own satisfaction, then sure. If by success you mean sustaining the relationship, then nope. If she fucks up, she's gone. And that's nobody's fault but her own.
OccamsUsername 11y ago
Yes, your decision to drop a woman is her misfortune, not her fault. You made a decision to drop her. Placing blame on her for circumstances within your influence, including beginning the relationship in the first place- perhaps with an unsuitable woman or with improper leadership, that does not take enough personal responsibility for my liking.
This is why I addressed agency, honor, and love with regard to women. If you believe that most/all women are compromised with regard to or are absent one or more of those characteristics, then everything that happens within a relationship with a woman is your responsibility.
PhantomDream09 11y ago
Yes, but Occam's philosophy is that you (the man) have to be in control at all times, you prevent problems from occurring by defining boundaries and being a good leader. If a woman acts up, it's your fault for not being a better Captain. A woman will not rebel or otherwise "screw up" if she loves and respects her Captain.
Occam has always clearly defined the boundaries of our relationship. I know exactly what he needs in order to be happy, and I strive to please him because he looks after my best interests and tends to my needs as well. I know what lines cannot be crossed, and I don't act out because I respect him (and view him as my superior). I want to earn his approval and his affection - and my desire to please him inevitably overrides any impulses to act out or misbehave. Granted those impulses are few and far between for me, and they usually arise because of something outside of our relationship stressing me out. Regardless of the cause for my behavioral hiccups, Occam always settles me down swiftly and definitively. My emotions are an open book to him, and he recognizes any change in my normal demeanor. He cuts off any problems while they are still in the 'brewing' stage, and it has benefited our relationship significantly.
He also distinguishes between problems within my control and problems that are out of my realm of influence. I have a bad knee, and occasionally it acts up to the point where I can barely put any pressure on it. Occam asks what I need in order to tend to it, and he prevents me from getting upset over something that I cannot control. Sometimes, my knee is going to hurt regardless of what I do. That's a problem I cannot control, how I interact with frustrating clients however, is within my sphere of influence. When I feel frustrated about something regarding work, Occam helps me stay in control and dismisses any unreasonable thoughts I have. He guides me and provides various ways to deal with the source of my ire.
Kharn0 11y ago
C'mon guys, I get that women think differently then us, especially when I comes to sex, but women aren't robots, they share responsibility for their own actions.
OccamsUsername 11y ago
You are to conduct yourself and your affairs with the understanding that you are the only party responsible.
I see statements in this community about the capacity of women with regard to honor, maturity, and love. Those who believe women deficient in these areas should agree with me automatically. Those who don't agree with me, tell me what you have to lose from being the best, and most vigilant leader you can be? Where is the downside to taking full responsibility for your happiness and never relenting on this thought?
Cyralea 11y ago
Most women (and men) act predictably. If you know a woman will act irrationally to a situation, you can at least account for that.
If your house gets blown away by a tornado, yes, it's nature's fault, but you should only be blaming yourself for not doing something about if you saw it coming.
Kharn0 11y ago
Agreed. I'm just tired of hearing about women as if they have no responsibility for their actions.
trplurker 11y ago
Very few people are saying women have no responsibility, just that women assume they have no responsibility. You are responsible for yourself and how you act, that includes failures in judgement even when the failure was reasonably unavoidable.
[deleted] 11y ago
In the case of her cheating:
She is responsible for cheating. You are responsible for ending the relationship.
You are not responsible for her behavior, but rather how it affects the relationship. Which means, if you want to stay with her... stay with her. If you don't, don't. Either way, don't fucking whine about it because it was your choice. However, many would argue in this case that if you were good enough, she wouldn't have cheated.
OccamsUsername 11y ago
With cheating you either misjudged her character propensity for betrayal, misjudged the conditions under which she would betray you, or you did not display enough value to her for the actions to be unthinkable.
It is all your responsibility.
[deleted] 11y ago
I doubt every negative thing in your life is 100% in your control. I understand the benefit of thinking in this way, but in reality, you cannot control everything.
You can choose to take responsibility for it, but it seems unwarranted for things out of your control.
OccamsUsername 11y ago
You take responsibility for things out of your control by addressing any circumstances with the most complete understanding and most effective solutions or compensations you can manage. You always do your best.
The mindset is important, and that's why my posts are worded as strongly as they are.
Nobody benefits from ideas like "not my fault" or "not my responsibility" if your happiness is on the line.
Eloni 11y ago
While I'm not religious, I believe the Serenity Prayer to be a much better philosophy.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference."
Blaming yourself for some freak accident our of your control does not seem very constructive to mental health, nor very stoic at all.
OccamsUsername 11y ago
Acceptance of reality and a level head while you address newly risen circumstances is never unhealthy. I take responsibility for newly arisen circumstances by addressing the issues they present.
[deleted] 11y ago
But... understanding that the event was out of your control does not keep you from taking control by "addressing the issues they present."
What is the reason/benefit of this false dichotomy?
OccamsUsername 11y ago
It doesn't warrant any time dwelled on the matter. There is no point in looking for reasons to excuse yourself. If absolving yourself is your goal here, by all means, go ahead. It simply runs counter to the spirit of the point I am trying to make, and the motivation I am intending to provide.
Cyralea 11y ago
Spot on. Look at how girls in love talk about their husbands. "He's my rock. He's my anchor". Girls are emotional creatures. Even the hardiest of them are subject to hormonal fluctuations that men rarely deal with. They need us to be leading the charge when they start falling apart. Women are wired to be drawn towards capable, strong men, it's not hard to see how this would have favoured survival odds.
The key thing here is that even when you're unsure, you can't show it. You need to at least give them a reason to believe you're in control. Never let her attempts to escalate panic get to you, no matter how legitimate the issue. The better you get at actually resolving issues the more she'll trust in your unwavering strength.
CptConfused 11y ago
This is solid, and luckily I've been applying it with out realising. Maintain frame, set your personal boundaries and expectations, look after the person who matters most.
I can deal with my girl fine, but I have an issue with another woman in my life, my mother. I might need too make a post about this entirely, but I'm sure trp can help me here.
My mother may aswel be a single parent. My father is pretty blue pill, he ignores the family, and he is heavily resented by my mother for not working, he also fails all the (dare I say) "shit tests" my mother throws at him, leading to massive arguments which shake me up completely and I completely lose myself.
I'm with them for the holidays and I already can't wait to get back home, at home I have my studies, my gf, my own room, I'm very content and at ease, when I visit my parents however I just feel unstable, mentally emotionally all that, I completely lose my frame and become a depressed teenager.
So I'm left with a bitter resentful completely irrational mother who is always in a bad mood and talks to me like shit. I don't know what the fuck to do. In the past I've managed to maintain my frame as the Man and I've completely put her in her place with a few calm words, but I can't always do it sometimes I'm not in any sort of dominant frame as I might just be watching TV or something since I'm down for the holidays. There is no Man in her life, its clear that my father doesn't do his job, he ran away from the issue years ago and left me with and my brother with it. How the fuck do i deal with this? She's a fucking monster and every year it gets worse. I'm sure she could do with a therapist this shit is not my fucking problem to solve I'm not here to husband her.
BluepillProfessor 11y ago
Your story is not unusual and will become more and more common as TRP and especially MGTOW takes root. Nobody wants a bitter, angry, irrational woman who is always in a bad mood. Why do you visit your parents again?
Peoria3 11y ago
Continue to maintain that calm frame you mentioned. Let it set like concrete and even though it'll NEVER fix your Dad's situation (or your Mom's) you'll be well-positioned for the future. You're way ahead of most guys your age who come from families like that.
johnnight 11y ago
Excellent post.
lawlqq 11y ago
Thank you for this.
SwordfshII 11y ago
This is the best description and application of TRP I have seen
snwborder52 11y ago
Where can I learn more about stoicism?
[deleted] 11y ago
The pre-socratics. It's old school philosophy. This clown doesn't know what it is, and it has no relevance to 'the red pill'.
OccamsUsername 11y ago
I couldn't tell you. This is a trait I developed on my own, as a means to take life on more successfully. I actually don't fully understand how some people can get carrier away with emotion any longer.
My intent from the outset was only to exhibit neutral and positive states, true stoicism is the indifference to pain and joy. My intent and strategy is simply to tamp down what helps nobody, and would hinder my efforts for success. I use the word stoicism because it's easy enough to understand for most people.
MetacognitiveMan 11y ago
"...establish an accurate image of what you want early on in the courtship process."
As someone who has been married for over a decade, this is not possible with my wife. What has been working for me is evolving my behavior in the relationship over time (more than 24 months) toward this concept of maintaining frame.
What didn't work was being completely honest and upfront about what I planned to be doing and where I read about it, etc. That just made things worse. My first rule now is to not talk about what I learn here and elsewhere in the red pill sphere.
[deleted] 11y ago
What this means is, do you want a pump and dump? Tell her that (maybe choose the words a bit better...). Looking for LTR? Tell her that. You want a woman who cooks you dinner? Tell her that.
If it "doesn't work" because she disagrees with you, she isn't what you are looking for... therefore, take her off the pedestal and next her.
My guess is that your behavior has gotten significantly more RP over the course of your marriage, but started off not so RP.
-Anteros- Endorsed Contributor 11y ago
/r/redpillrelationships
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