Hey gang !
For about 12 months between 2011 and 2012 I was part of the Vancouver Polyamory community. I have commented on my experiences in other threads, but after I saw the hilarious "open relationship" thread this morning I prompted me to get around to the FR write up a few of you have requested.
So grab a beer and get comfy and I shall explain what I experienced, as best I can.
For various reasons I was looking to get some information and context on open relationships so I though it would be a good idea to join the local poly groups here in Vancouver.
I attended monthly meetings on and off for about 1 year as well as getting to know a bunch of the members of the community. It was a very eye opening experience and re affirms everything I have been reading here in Red Pill.
So, starting very broadly the poly community is broken up into two very distinct age groups, under 30's and over 40's. There is a substantial group of older poly people, but really they don't factor into this report. I'll just summarize them in that they are mostly fat, old, married/divorcees and there is a lot overlap with the swinger community there. They guys were nice enough to talk to but the women were swamp donkeys and well past the wall.
For this field report, I am going to focus on the younger crowd.
Even before I joined this group I was an avid "people watcher". People in groups fascinate me and it's always interesting to see how the group dynamics work. They way it worked in the poly groups was straight out of a fucking red pill text book.
You had;
Women (mostly Straight, some bi, a few lesbians)
Men (Mostly straight, a couple of Bi guys, but strangely NO gay guys)
They would have their meetings and have a group chat about various issues that were of concern to the community or relationship discussions about communication, etc etc etc... then it would break up into the social side of it.
This was always the interesting part, because every meeting you would have 4 / 5 new people and a few new couples. The couples were always guy / girl where they are exploring the idea of and open relationship. The guys were always kind of chubby beta looking guys.
There were a number of alphas in the group and when we broke up into the social side of the meetings they would always be swarmed with women. These guys were always
Tall (around 6ft)
Good looking
Cocky alpha types
It was always hilarious to see that the newbie women would flock to them on the meetings and start flirting with them. These guys always had a constant harem of new pussy as well as the usual women who were constant in the community.
The women were awful. They were the sluttiest sluts, and the worst examples of female hyperagmy. They would ride the cock carousel on extra fast and have a new cock every night. A lot of them identified as "pan sexual" which is really just a nice way of saying "I'll fuck anything" Some of them were borderline nymphomaniacs.
They were also the most horrible exploiters of men. There were a few of them who cottoned on to the fact that I was good with computers and tried to lead me on. I gave them a couple of chances but when it became very clear they wanted me for my IT skills, and nothing else I deleted their numbers. They'd flake constantly and really only contact me when they wanted something done.
I never took my wife to these meetings because she wasn't really into meeting large groups of people who were pretty much obsessed with sex and cock hopping. For my wife, sex is almost an alien language to her on a count of her being asexual. She is also an introvert so a room full of strangers making small talk is her idea of hell. To her credit, she gave it the best try she could.
She did join me at one dinner event at a local pub, and she pretty much hated the whole night because of one asshole. There is a lot of cross over between the Poly and BDSM community as well, and we were at an poly event where one of the BDSM guys was loudly voicing his idea for a semi consensual fire play scenario involving a rag with gasoline and fooling the sub into thinking she was doused with it.
Multiple people told him to STFU but he wasn't listening because he was;
A sadist, so he was getting off on making people feel unconfortable
He was DRIPPING with chicks.
Seriously Almost every woman there made an excuse to move and sit with him, and you had many of the girls dripping in their panties at this dark triad alpha. I later found out this guy was a fucking COP with the VPD.
My wife got sick of his shit, and so did I, so we left early that night.
I attended a couple of house parties in that community over that period and while they were fun they were really just "all you could fuck" buffets for the alpha's and the women. The one memory that stands out for me is one party where you had some new guy come with his GF and it was clear that she was trying to steer him to an "Open relationship" by laying to him that he was going to get fucked as much as she was. (lol)
Well she fucked about 5 guys that night, and he sat on the couch trying to strike up conversations with cute women and getting completely ignored. Instead he got pounced by the swamp donkeys, and you could see his visible revulsion to them, and the idea that his GF was getting nailed by guys way hotter than him.
The next community meet, she was back but he wasn't
So yeah, that was my experience with the poly community. I learned many valuable lessons, chief of which was that I really wasn't going to have any luck there, and really I didn't want put my dick near any of those women anyway.
So guys, if you're GF ever suggests having an "open relationship" and you aren't a top tier alpha.... next the bitch, because all it will get you is pain and misery.
Crackerjacksurgeon 11y ago
Fixed.
Pro tip, if your girl suggests open relationship, it's proof you're not a top tier alpha. A girl might tolerate sharing an alpha, but would never volountairly start sharing if she has him all to herself to begin with
the_red_scimitar 11y ago
Fixed.
KJL13 11y ago
You didn't even fix it right
26ounce 11y ago
Absolutely true. I must find that famous reddit post about the girl who suggested an open relationship to her long term BF - he immediately nexted her with surgical precision. That guy is a role model.
[deleted]
FEMINAZISCUM 11y ago
It's one of the top TRP posts of all time and for good reason
Kalepsis 11y ago
Did you notice the very first descriptor she used for the boyfriend in that post was "he has a great job"?
I want to have that dude on my friends list, as well.
[deleted] 11y ago
A sadistic cop? Well I never.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Well it's an aberration in Canada and places like Australia because they actively screen to keep people like that out of the force.
I was of a mind to report him to VPD for further investigation, but I don't need all the shit that would entail.
zeroday22 11y ago
Wow he pulled chicks and was into sexual stuff that you were not. Better report him to the cops! Sad.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
It was the sadistic streak that put me on edge. I have no problems with BDSM, but you essentially had someone who was charged with looking after the public, talking about fooling a person into thinking they were covered in gasoline, and that he was going to set them on fire.
He was talking about actively ignoring the "safe word" which is something you DO NOT DO in the BDSM community.
This is NOT someone I want with a cops badge.
zeroday22 11y ago
Hey I don't really want anyone with a cop's badge, but you can't get people in trouble just for talking about weird sex shit, unless you're a cop of course....
[deleted] 11y ago
Yes you can, a police officer is held for higher standards than your average citizen. That's the reason they are given so much power and authority.
If your wiev of them is common in US I can see why your cops are so bad.
MockingDead 11y ago
One of the reasons beta me dropped out of the scene. If I can ever alpha up, maybe I'll go back to it.
iluminatiNYC 11y ago
As someone with a background in the swinger community who is tiptoeing back in post-divorce, I can cosign Ever. Single. WORD! Now, don't get it twisted here. I did a few of those "swamp donkeys" as you called them because they could fuck like nobody's business. Plus, by and large, they are good people, and I can legitimately count on them as friends because they came through in the (vanilla) clutch when they didn't have to. Also, after what was a 7 year break, I had people stepping up to me in meet and greets saying they remembered me when I hadn't seen them or thought of them in years. That gave me on hell of an ego boost.
I do have one question to the OP though. Did you notice that the alphas tended to drop out suddenly and turn up in relationships in a hurry? In my experience, the alphas would just not show up one day, and the women would mourn how so-and-so got into a serious relationship with a hotter, younger looking woman. They also threw themselves at the guys higher up on the food chain.
ayjayred 11y ago
eye-opening post. Thanks for the field report. I thought swinger couples get laid equally (maybe for some couples, but not to the majority).
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Yeah swingers are a slightly different breed that the poly crowd.
ashion101 11y ago
Claude's wife chiming in.
Yes I'm introverted (not as bad as I once was), asexual (understand sex, but can't apply it in context with myself if that makes sense) and am also a people watcher in that i like to study how people move and unconsciously/consciously pose themselves and read people from that to help establish first impressions when meeting someone for the first time and... yeah. What husband said is pretty much the overwhelming first impression I got from these people that never dulled or changed all night. Only got increasingly stronger.
Most of the young women just made me cringe over their all but jumping the bones of the few good looking alpha guys, the googly eyes and silly girly giggling and arm petting was on overdrive! Some even were bold enough to sit in these guys laps while doing all that as if the guy they came with didn't exist.
I thought that kind of leave the brains in your purse and titer on like you like you're a teen again and your intelligence has left the building all in the pursuit of dick, thing was only in movies and TV shows... nope.
Their boyfriends tried to chat up the other ladies, but really got nowhere from what I was seeing. Most gave up by the time we were ready to leave and had grouped together downing their beers and chatting amongst themselves.
With the older couples there was at least one couple sitting near me (easily mid 50's) who looked as put out by the whole thing as me, just sitting there sipping their drinks and nibbling their meals eyeballing all the young people, attempting to start amicable chatting or basic flirting and not getting anywhere. They left not too long before we did.
I generally don't care what people get up to in their bedrooms be it vanilla or all out kink fest that would make satan blush, but Mr. Pyro maniac cop set off my red flag radar almost immediately after being introduced to him and as things went on those initial pings of warning turned into all out blaring fog horns of stay the fuck away from this guy at any cost.
Seriously he was scary in how insistent he was of MAKING someone play this twisted 'trust' game with him - he even talked about numbing the subs sense of smell with stuff like powerfully scented vapor rub cream under the nose so they couldn't tell by smell or lack there of of what he was pouring on them - and how awesome it would be... and then he added the cherry on the sick, twisted BDSM cake and admitted there was a high likelihood he would ignore the safe word. You know cause it would ruin the fun of testing trust!
EDIT TO ADD: Also remembered Mr. Pyro was funnily enough getting a LOT of attention from the ladies despite this talk, propositioning quite a few who he apparently knew to try it by starting with something like "So you know me and trust me right? Would you let me play and do [explains his idea] to you?" None of them took him up on it, many pointing out the extreme levels of trust required did not exist there, but strangely they didn't stop pawing over him all the time we were there. Even as he kept pushing at least 2 of them over and over on the whole "you trust me, why won't you play my trust game with me? It'll be fun!" they didn't back up... I would have bolted for the doors LONG ago if that was directed at me.
Overall summary of the night: Left me incredibly put off all the people involved (not the poly idea) and felt more like a, I guess, a group for people to use the term Polygamy Relationships meeting as an easy excuse to get as much pussy and dick as possible over developing actual friendships and possible poly relationships as I'd been naively expecting.
I'm still all for the poly relationship thing cause I want my husband fully happy and it would be just nice to have someone else in the relationship we both like and get along with. Just that one meeting proved that our definition of a poly relationship and this so call groups definition are way WAY different.
[deleted] 11y ago
Seeing as you are asexual and introverted, would the third person you'd like to invite to your relationship need to be hyper sexual and outgoing?
Is that what would make your husband fully happy, and thereby, make you fully happy?
This is all very interesting/confusing to me.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
As long as she had a sex drive that matched mine (more or less) I'd be happy.
As far as the outgoing thing ? well Wife and I are both introverts so having an outgoing person would be good, but at as long as they understood that I need "me" time to recharge my batteries.
Some of my wife's best friends are extroverts (one I am thinking of in particular), and while we adore them to bits they can drive us to the point where we need to escape for a bit.
I am sure she'll have her own 2 cents to add.
ashion101 11y ago
No they don't need to be hyper sexual or highly extroverted since my husband is a bit of an introvert himself and being an extreme opposite would be a bit much for both of us I think.
Husband can talk to people easier and much more smoothly than I can, but like me gets mentally burned out quickly with large groups of people or people that are extreme extroverts. They can be a bit much for either of us to deal with in extended periods of time.
Finding a person who fits with us and could be equally happy with us as we could be with them is what we agree will make all parties happiest.
We currently have a good friend who may become a third to us in the future but we aren't rushing things, just letting it all evolve as it will. She's not hyper sexual, but is outgoing to a level that compliments with us and she is fun to be with and joins in with our playful teasing.
Kalepsis 11y ago
One thing about the Pyro cop: if you can prove he has ignored safeword protocol, you need to give his information to others in the bdsm community and he will be severely dealt with, cop or not. The entire foundation of the community is consent, and violating a safeword brands him a rapist, among other things.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
The sad thing is, he is will known within the BDSM community here in Vancouver, and has no shortage of ladies who want to play with him.
He is a regular dom at the big monthly fetish event here in Vancouver.
He is a classic dark triad type of person.
ashion101 11y ago
I understand that completely and knew right away his idea was breaking the most basic of rules for bdsm play, but for me this was the one and only time I met him.
Thankfully the woman who had been organizing all these meetings actually listened to us after we made it clear he really left us feeling incredibly uncomfortable and was one of the big reasons I in particular wouldn't be coming to a meeting again. She apologized for the experience and apparently spoke to the guy (apparently we weren't the only newer people he drove off and upset that night) but we don't know what if anything else came of it.
Trust me if I knew how to put a note out there about our concerns with him to the bdsm community I would.
Kalepsis 11y ago
He probably has a Fetlife profile. That's the best place to start.
zeroday22 11y ago
Give the poor guy some handjobs, blowjobs, and sex. If you really don't feel anything about it then so what? Consider it a massage, or like mowing the lawn. I give my SO a nice back massage a few times a week, it doesn't bring me any pleasure except that I know she likes it. Do the same for your HUSBAND. Like are you just too lazy to make him happy or will you physically puke if you have sex? If not, then give a few minutes of your time to the guy and he wouldn't have to skulk around weird sex meetups where he doesn't get laid.
MockingDead 11y ago
She's letting him sleep around. I think that qualifies.
still_very_alive 11y ago
Chill, man. I don't think Clauderoughly needs anyone's help with his relationship.
[deleted] 11y ago
[deleted]
zeroday22 11y ago
She should be just as into it as any other woman who is giving a BJ without incorporating sex for her after.
FEMINAZISCUM 11y ago
Nothing worse than a starfish who just lays there. I'd prefer my hand tbh
Clauderoughly 11y ago
No head is better than bad, unenthusastic head
monsieurhire2 11y ago
Very interesting read. One question regarding your asexuality, not that it's any of my business, but what's your experience, if any, with masturbation?
ashion101 11y ago
Its no problem. I've tried a number of times over the years, even tried some basic toys hoping that might do something mostly in attempts to feel something normal like girls are supposed to. All attempts did nothing except leave me feeling bored and frustrated. I always felt nothing more significant that if I was to apply the same things to my knee or arm.
I'm no prude and I've perused the internet for whats out there out of curiosity and interest to see if I could find something that could get a rise outta me, but outside of somethings sparking an intense interest in the brain, there was no reaction anywhere else.
monsieurhire2 11y ago
Hmmm... interesting. So no sexual fantasies then? I wonder if it might be a hormone thing. Have you looked into stuff like bioidenticals, or sought any kind of medical or professional opinion?
On the bright side, now you don't have to worry about sexual urges distracting you, nor do you have to worry about not being able to satiate them. But if you've never experienced them, that would be frustrating.
ashion101 11y ago
I think about fantasy type stuff now and again, but it generally goes no where and I have no real sexual fantasies as such. Even sex dreams kind of fizzle off once they get started or turn blank.
We've seen a sex therapist a couple of times and I've had 3 full hormone tests over the last couple of years to check for any imbalances (partly due to no libido and my periods becoming problematic) and all came back normal.
zeroday22 11y ago
Why did you get married if you don't want to have sex? What is the difference being friends (except taxes)?
ashion101 11y ago
Friends had been saying for years even before we got together that we carried on like a married couple and in the end it became a why not thing. Also looking at what we want to do in the future being married just makes it that bit easier.
We have known each other for over 12 years and you have to bare in mind it was about 8 months after we got married (and after years of tests and doctors) I was finally diagnosed with with mild depression, arthritis and massively inflamed nerves from fibromyalgia (couldn't touch most of my torso or neck without it feeling like being stabbed with electrified icicles) and went through a battery of meds before I found the right ones.
Because of this I wasn't 100% sure if I was asexual (before meds trying to figure myself out on the sexual front I kept hitting a wall that drove me insane with frustration and a overall lack of arousal or much sensation down stairs upset me a fair bit) or if the nearly 20 years of near constant lower back and joint pain that steadily grew worse as I got older (I've just hit 30 for perspective), bouts of apatite loss, fatigue that would smack me down without a moments notice and insomnia were the cause of a lacking sex drive since I've been dealing with this so long.
It was only once I got my meds managed correctly and could think clearly and concisely for the first time in god knows how long I realized the wall that was there regarding me and sex wasn't caused by my pain and health issues. I simply had no sex drive and more than likely never did.
We suspected as much long before we got married (communication was and is a HUGE part of our relationship can't stress that enough), saw a sex therapist to help get things straight in both our heads and Husband decided he wanted to stay together and get married anyway. And I'd be a lying twat waffle if I said I didn't appreciate all that he has done and how long he has stuck beside me despite everything every day.
Me not being a jealous person helps with being in an open relationship to ease the hiccup of my asexuality.
zeroday22 11y ago
I understand that people can have no sex drive, sometimes people don't feel sexual and you feel that way all the time. However, why don't you just do sexual things to your husband even though they don't make you aroused? I mean I do shit 8 hours a day that I don't want to do, and it isn't for people that I love. Is there a real reason you don't "suck it up" and do some sexy stuff for your husband for a little while?
key402 11y ago
I dated an asexual girl years ago, and the whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. We had a pretty serious relationship and were definitely best friends at the time, I've still never connected to a girl as well as I did with her. I tried to make it work, but she was just so unwilling to attempt any kind of sexual activity. I remember telling her the same thing - I dress up and go to work every day, I don't see why you can't dress up in something sexy once in a while and blow me (lol). Eventually I realized it was just never going to work. We talked about it all the time and I've read more literature on asexuality than I care to, but I think as a straight person you can never truly understand it.
Eventually I broke up with the girl and it broke her heart. I think to this day she'd still love to get back together and have some sort of weird best-friends-forever platonic relationship type thing, but there is just no way in hell. One part of me still wants to be close to her but I know she can't give me everything I need. Not to downplay the relationship between the OP and his wife here, but I honestly think you two are insane for getting married. I remember everyday was mental torture because I didn't have an outlet to release my sexual energy on the girl I really loved. But I guess now that you are married, the only thing your husband can do is find an outlet to do so...and in my experience he will probably never be completely satisfied, because just fucking random women doesn't bring the same type of fulfillment. So ideally, he is going to be looking for a wife #2 who he has both a strong emotional connection with, and who he can also fuck. Anyway, done with my rambling.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
I am sorry things didn't work out for you.
Pretty much what I am looking for but also someone who my wife can treat as a really good friend.
I full admit that there is nothing I would love more than to be able to jump my wife on a regular basis, but I can't resent her for the hand she was dealt. It's not that she doesn't want to, she just physically can't. We have had many a wishful conversation that if there was a magic way of solving her problem she'd be all over that like a fat feminist on cake!
This is the hand we have been dealt, and we are making the most of it.
I went to the relationship with a pretty clear idea that this might be a possiblity and before I asked her to marry me I agonized long and hard about whether it was the right thing to do. I freely admit if an open relationship wasn't an option I would have walked away from the relationship as much as it would have torn me to do so.
Walking away is always on the table and if I ever found myself deeply unhappy then I would.
That isn't the case, and hasn't been the whole time we have been together. I am happier than I have ever been with her in my life and I can't picture life without her around. She is my partner is the truest sense of the word.
zeroday22 11y ago
I still don't understand why she can't do sexual things for you unless she is utterly repulsed by you.
key402 11y ago
Thanks for responding. Reading about you and your wife made me think of all the strange feelings I was dealing with in that relationship. There is always this question in my mind what it would have been like to stay with that girl long-term, so sorry if I side-tracked your thread.
I totally respect your decision, because I recognize that after dating plenty of women, a lot of them are dense as hell and I'm probably never going to find a partner who I connect with on that intellectual level. So it's definitely worth it if you guys connect well.
For me, I eventually came to the conclusion that the relationship wouldn't work because we didn't view each other in the same way. It would be like marrying one of my guy friends. I was looking at her as a sexual-partner-soulmate type of deal, whereas I think in her mind I was more of a best-friend-forever...and I have male friends I would consider my best friends, but there is no way in hell they are on the same level as how I feel towards a romantic-sexual partner...I was always questioning the dynamic, because of course everyone has best friends they would do anything for, but I think the sex drive between a couple really changes something in a way that a typical platonic relationship can't compare. Was this something you struggled with?
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Yes it is. There is always going to be a gulf between us in that respect, but we deal with it as best we can. I still have intimacy with my wife, it's just different.
Her and I have regular showers together for example, and it's awesome to know I am the only man who will ever have that experience. I would dearly love to have sex with her... a lot... but she isn't denying me because some sort of lack of attraction, but because she just doesn't have that neural hard-wiring.
If I take the "glass is half full" approach, I am the man she has been most intimate with... in her entire life. I am the alpha and the omega when it comes to that, I am the only man who will experience that sort of closeness with her... ever.
So that is something that helps bridge the chasm. Some days can be a bit harder than others but overall I am extremely happy.
kol15 11y ago
because the husband would feel it was inauthentic, detracting from the experience
plus, sexual stuff is pretty much never good when the woman's lacking enthusiasm about it
zeroday22 11y ago
So she can't just enthusiastically suck a dick for 10 minutes a few times a week, or give a good "massage" (handjob)? She must not love him that much. You really think girls just love shoving a meat stick in their mouths if they aren't having sex too? Every independent blowjob you have had was a one sided deal man. Are you seriously telling me that you think your GF loves giving you hand-jobs and blow-jobs? The only reason she does it is because she knows you like it.
kol15 11y ago
I can't understand a woman's perspective, but at least from my POV: if I'm going down on a lady, for example, part of why I enjoy it so much can surely be attributed to it making me feel good to make her feel good, but an equally substantial portion would be hot fucking damn does it turn me on to partake in that breakfast of champions
If it didn't make me horny, I don't know if I'd enjoy it so much. I could probably feign enthusiasm, but it wouldn't be authentic
zeroday22 11y ago
Oh so you need authentic artisanal blowjobs, what a fucking retard.
kol15 11y ago
I never said that, I just said it ruins the experience if the girl is obviously viewing it as a chore
[deleted] 11y ago
Taxes.
BenchPress400 11y ago
Good post. I can't help but feel for most guys in that situation. They hate the thought of their girlfriends getting plowed, but they are in a situation where if they say no they'll lose their sweet sweet princesses. Fucking ridiculous.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
This is why you need to "next" women.
Getting too hung up on the wrong women, is a recipe for pain and misery
[deleted] 11y ago
Sounds disgusting.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
It's why I don't associate with them any more.
rdaily207 11y ago
i would imagine it was pretentious as fuck. you screw around and your wife is ok with it, so it's not as if you need to improve your deal. you're a lucky guy.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Yeah, they were pretty preachy, as well as being all for "poly rights" which was relevant as there was a case before the BC courts about poly relationships.
It's still a legal grey area here in BC, mainly because we have a number of Mormon cults out in the mountains.
deptii 11y ago
Goddamn... this shit just pisses me off so much. Both her being the ultimate slut and this guy being the ultimate beta. I want to kidnap him and teach him the RP way so he doesn't get walked all over like this.
How the fuck did it get this bad? It makes me wonder if we should stop trying to fix this fucked up shit and just let it implode on itself later on down the line. It might be better to just start anew instead of bandaging what we have.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
A nice idea but practically impossible. The best thing you can do is focus on what YOU can do for yourself. The poor beta bastard in the story needs to find is own way.
You can't recruit people to a place like this because some of them are so hopelessly brainwashed by feminism that if you try and explain this shit to them they just shut you out, as their ego goes into self preservation mode.
It's the same as trying to tell someone they have a shit relationship / shit gf / shit bf.
People in bad relationships never listen at the time.
The single best thing you can do, is be the change you want to see in the greater world. Trying to change the world and save everyone, especially in the realm of gender relations, will just leave you bitter and angry.
Take a look at the sheer level of bitter and angry over at /r/mensrights and /r/MGTOW and you can see.
widec 11y ago
Sad to see that MGTOW is taking such a negative stance. If you're going to stray from the expectations of society, then you should be ready to logically accept that there will be consequences. I've been down that path lately and haven't been bitter, to me it just seems like a set of circumstances you can slowly work change.
DanReggins 11y ago
It seems to me like young men are strongly being pushed into one direction or the other.
But just what benefit is there to being beta, at all? An omega who goes to the gym and pays for sex seems better off.
feelsbeforereals 11y ago
unless you're an alpha you're always paying for sex
DanReggins 11y ago
Exactly. But it seems to me that a omega who pays for it directly gets more sex and a better deal overall (e.g. cheaper plus no dramas) than most betas in N. America.
feelsbeforereals 11y ago
oh yeah. i agree.
[deleted] 11y ago
Even as alpha you are paying for it with time.
feelsbeforereals 11y ago
with that logic you pay for literally everything with time. you paid for that comment and my reply with your time.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
In some cases they are, but it's a personal choice. If given the choice it is better to tend towards the alpha and self improvement side of things. All the qualities that are espoused on that end of the spectrum have applications outside of chasing girls.
There are a number of things I have learned here, that I use in my daily work life that produce results.
ayjayred 11y ago
Tell us more...
Clauderoughly 11y ago
That'd be a whole separate FR, but I'll get to writing it up.
ayjayred 11y ago
please do.
zeroday22 11y ago
You honestly think there is some kind of end of the world scenario coming down the line because of slutty women? That is insane dude.
[deleted]
deptii 11y ago
No, nothing like that. I'm talking about plummeting marriage rates, men dropping out of the workforce, more and more stories about this man or that man getting screwed by alimony, or child support, or finding out his children aren't really his. It's all coming to a head. Read The Misandry Bubble if you haven't already.
zeroday22 11y ago
I have, but when you say things like "implode" and "start anew", that most certainly implies that the previous set up collapsed.
deptii 11y ago
Doesn't it seem like that though? The social dynamic has stayed roughly the same for many many generations, and now it's all coming unraveled. Feminism is pushing us one way, the Manosphere is pushing back. It just seems like we're delaying the inevitable though. When the Misandry Bubble collapses, wouldn't it be better if it went with a bang instead of a slow deflation? The former ensures it's heard by everyone. The latter, not so much.
zeroday22 11y ago
Eh... Shit is going to keep on the way it always has, slow and not noticed by the people experiencing it. Robots/Compuers are going to do ALL of the work inside of 100 years anyway, so what the fuck?! Right?
[deleted] 11y ago
We will run out of oil in next 20 years, even if we did find out a new energy source most of our commodities are made from/with oil.
Our current lifestyle will not hold.
zeroday22 11y ago
Haha they said that 30 years ago. We have more oil resources now than ever before even as we use less of it. There is no "Oil Crisis" coming down the pike, pick a different disaster to fill your post apocalyptic dreams with.
[deleted] 11y ago
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Clauderoughly 11y ago
They were certainly fit. No pot bellies, or signs of fat.
They ladies seemed happy with them.
ayjayred 11y ago
were there any short-statured alphas?
thecajunone 11y ago
Lol
Clauderoughly 11y ago
No.
Even if there were, they'd lose to the taller guys because 99% of women want a guy taller because it makes them feel safe and secure.
ayjayred 11y ago
note-to-self: stay away from poly groups.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
being a guy under 6ft is game on "hard mode" it will suck most of the time but if you work on the things you CAN improve you will achive a lot.
[deleted] 11y ago
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gekkozorz 11y ago
Yep, imagine a world where being poly is broadly accepted throughout the entire western world. You'd have situations like OP and his wife describe - women sitting on alpha's laps with their beta provider boyfriends sitting right there and watching.
Alphas would enjoy the arrangement, I'm sure, as sex would now fall like mana from the sky, but betas would MGTOW on a massive scale.
The more feminism drives the "women should be able to live life and express themselves AKA be megasluts" deep within our cultures' dogma, the closer this scenario comes to being a reality.
monsieurhire2 11y ago
I once met this dude who joined a Tantric sex cult.
Me: "What was it like?"
Him: "Every morning, the men would give the priestess a 30 minute orgasm."
Me: "Did you get laid?"
Him: "No."
It was all about the woman.
PokesHoleInCondoms 11y ago
/u/madstatistician had one of the best summaries of the Poly community I've ever read. (Can't link the original post, unfortunately.)
"It's not an unusual situation at all. Right now there is a post on the front page of /r/polyamory by a girl who recently got involved with a man in an open marriage. The man's wife has THREE other boyfriends, and he finally found this one (younger) chick willing to date him. And guess what? The wife is throwing the brakes on it. Surprise, surprise.
Being into bdsm myself I've observed the poly community from the sidelines for years now... it's sugar-coated cuckolding and 95% of the men involved are pressured into it and totally out of their depth."
iluminatiNYC 11y ago
Hey, I was offered an open relationship once, I found a woman quickly, and my then-wife literally had a nervous breakdown over it. Apparently she didn't think I'd get someone that quickly.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Yeah, my wife and I had lot and lots of discussions about it before we started down that path. I am lucky that I am married to someone who is very open and honest about her mindset.
None of that passive aggressive female bullshit with her (part of the reason I married her)
the_red_scimitar 11y ago
As a RP guy who also is in open relationships, I can tell you I have no problem finding good looking, interesting, and very sexually capable partners. The real problem is scheduling everything.
This week, I have dates (read that any way you'd like) with three regulars and a second date (and possibly third) with a new lady. I easily have 4 or 5 others that are very interested, but frankly, even though interested, there just isn't the time.
For example, my OKCupid profile clearly states, multiple times, that I do only open relationships, and even links to my primary partner's profile (i.e. it's not "in code" or otherwise hidden or obfuscated). More on the primary just after this paragraph. In the last two weeks, for some reason, poly girls in their mid-20's (I am near twice their age) have been interested in me (all from OKCupid). Met two, another is messaging very strongly. Both the girls remained interested after our meetings, but I didn't find either quite to be the physical type I like. Also, some "crazy" red or yellow flags went up at these meetings.
I currently do have a primary partner (we aren't married, nor do we live together) who is one of of those regular dates. She has 2 others she sees, with a new one starting up this week.
The point: there is no imbalance in my open relationships, of a gf having lots of hot guys, while I languish hopefully. One of my gf's dates only me (i.e. is monogamous to me), although she knows I am non-monogamous, and that I actively see others.
Note: I'm not talking about random pickups or ONS. I'm talking about people whom we connect with emotionally, physically, and intellectually, and have, or intend to have, an ongoing relationship with.
Age ranges are from 30 to 45. Two of my four are into BDSM, but are totally cool that I'm not.
All of them are fit and good looking. One is and has been for some time professionally a model, and is an easy 8. 9 if you dig eclectic fashion. Another is a life-long athlete, only recent trading 20 years of body building for boxing.
I think the terms "poly" and "polyamorous" have strayed significantly from their original meanings, and more often than not now seem to mean, "married couple with an open relationship, probably involving some BDSM, that operates within a clique of local and similar people, with a few non-marrieds for variety in the clique". There tends to be a lot of formalizations and rules, and each clique jealously guards itself as a separate group. Usually there are regular get-togethers for play and swapping within the membership of the group.
The origin of the word - simply having enough love to give to multiple people - is pretty much lost, as it's become a social thing now rather than merely a sort of orientation.
Anyway, thus I prefer "non-monogamous", as it encompasses the reality without all the baggage of "poly".
As I haven't attended these sort of parties, I really haven't seen the kind of beta-brings-hot-gf thing that people are talking about. I have my relationships. My girlfriends have theirs (and one is married, in a poly relationship). I've met a few of the GFs' other partners (at parties - not the poly kind). It's all fine.
I think all my rambling above is just to give another perspective. I'm absolutely sure that there are extremely hypergamous women within the poly community, and I'm also sure some are there specifically to get what they don't get from their boyfriend. And quite probably, most are not doing non-monogamy for actual relationships, but just to get fucked.
But, at least so far, this has not been my experience. Perhaps the emphasis on relationships weeds them out. You know, it's within the RP lexicon that men "cheat for sex" while women "cheat to find a better mate". Cheating works differently in open relationships, and it does happen (the more rules, the more cheating, I suspect). But what I haven't seen (yet) is any of my gf's looking for partners so as to "move up" from another partner (or partners). Instead, they have operated more like what is expected from men - they simply want something different than their other partners. Each partner is different, and gives something different.
With the people I see, we tend to seek a new partner because either we find scheduling or other circumstances leaves us alone too many nights when we'd rather not be, or just to add (not replace) someone new we really like. Usually a combination of the two.
I have seen one poly couple (married) get ripped apart by obvious hypergamy on the woman's part. I don't consider that true "poly" or "non-monogamy", but rather, more like the scenario others described - she was using the open status to hunt a better mate.
So there you go. Another perspective.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Yeah, it will vary from city to city, group to group. The experience I posted was my own.
closetothesilence 11y ago
I was at a random party two nights ago hosted by a casual acquaintance from college and it was full of this type of people; mostly unattractive "nerds" that bragged about their multiple relationships, the fact they're burlesque dancers (although most of them I would never want to see outside of a brown burlap sack) and all-around insecure; the weird kids who hung out in the same, small incestuous anime club style groups in high school.
There was one girl there who was a solid 9 (before I started drinking) and very quickly singled me out as "the one she was going to flirt with" that night. Every other guy there; with their gf or not, was into this girl and had no clue how to interact with her aside from stroking her ego and "defending her honor." And she was eating up this ego stroking while bragging about her multiple "poly" partners but she was clearly just a young, attractive girl getting off on all the free attention these betas were tossing her. And I was ignoring her; focusing instead on menial conversation breaking a douche-beta's frame and watching him rebuild, and she kept vying for my attention. I didn't let her have it.
These "poly" types are just how you say; and I've known plenty. And in the nerd community it's so much more depressing and sad. The women have every scrap of power and these little betas scramble over themselves and bend over backwards for these girls. And they don't even question them riding a nerdy cock carousel; hell, they even encourage it as empowerment or something like that. Before TRP I used to think of myself as being poly but the more I read and experience in the real world the more I realize that what I really want is to fuck someone if I want to fuck them and not worry about the bullshit that comes from relationships. This post was just one more nail in the coffin for me that people are crazy and the only person I can really rely on is myself.
[deleted] 11y ago
I was hooking up with a girl who was in the community and an avid party of the fetlife poly scene, she introduced me to a bunch of others.
What you are saying is true the difference when you are attractive or not in the group is massive, the amount of times I have seen beta guys pretty much forced into letting their wife slut around is crazy.
great times and I honestly miss the girl, but keeping plates like that long-term is bad news.... we still hook up sometimes though.
[deleted] 11y ago
This is really interesting. I had a similar experience bringing my (bi) GF to the point where we were having threesomes with other girls. We live in SF, like every chick here has "poly" written on their OKC account, so our first experiences were with these self-identified "polyamorous friendly" bisexual girls I found online. Often these 25-26 girls in black leather, attractive but already showing signs of smoking / alcohol wear n tear, who were heavy into the fet / bdsm scene. They wound up being crazy bitches, I found out this one chick had been in a CL threesome where she had sex with two guys in return for PNP (party and play, you all do tina then fuck). Disgusting; thank god I wrapped mine. This other girl was just the girl you described - she is in an "open" relationship with an pharmacist, while she is 2-3 different girls and guys' slampieces.
Then I realized, I needed to man up, and I was being a little bitch. I was searching for bisexual girls on the internet, because I didn't feel comfortable going out to clubs and actually picking up with my GF. We were in LA for my brother's graduation and I made it my goal for us to get a straight club 9. Go after the hardest girl, not the girl who is the easiest (who participates in fet communities). After failing all night, we finally pulled this one 19 year old UCLA freshman. It's so, so much better to just go find an attractive girl, and then induct her into your scene, than it is to do the reverse. Don't find a BDSM chick, find the hottest girl you can and turn her into that.
I will say though, that spinning threesomes occasionally is the BEST way to keep your GF motivated in the gym and sexually. It is amazing - even straight girls will get off on it because it physically feels good, they get to be the center of 2 people's attention, Katy Perry sings about it so they like it, etc. So you're GF will enjoy it enough to override her "don't let him fuck other girls" response. She will constantly be working to stay ahead of the competition, and get these spikes of happiness whenever you reward her with signals that she's still #1. Great frame.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Dread game wins again !
sir_wankalot_here 11y ago
Are you still TRP if you are into MFF threesomes? As in your LTR partner is allowed to bonk other women providing she brings them back so you can bonk them at the same time. When you are not honking them, LTR partner and other woman do stuff like clean house and cook food.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
As long as there are no other guys involved, it's fine.
Yes, it's a double standard but hey, men and women are different.
I fuck women other than my wife, I she is 100% a OK with it.
No men get to touch her but me though.
zeroday22 11y ago
*no men; and you don't need the word though.
When things are worded like this it just makes the author sound dumb. I also take the fact that the poly community didn't work out for you to mean that you are not all that attractive to women. You clearly state that the poly thing was working out for the alphas, and not for you.
Edit: you fixed men but still need to get rid of the word "though". There is no exception, no men get to touch her, what are you "thoughing"?
Clauderoughly 11y ago
I knew when I am outclassed. There are always going to be people better than you, so I will freely admit that I didn't have much luck with the women in the poly community. My heart wasn't in it as the more I learned about the women there, the less I bothered.
I have enough luck with other women to keep me happy now days.
I am not bitter about the poly experience, far from it. It helped me learn a lot about poly relationships and helped my wife and I figure out what we wanted in OUR relationship.
zeroday22 11y ago
There is lots of good advice in this sub, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.
I guess I am taking out some of the frustration I feel when reading about "out alphaing" others and holding frame and whatnot. I feel as though posts like yours help put the truth to the lie that you can just game your way into sex by telling weird little stories and by treating women with disdain. You also need power or money, looks and some game, if you want quality women, and not just ones that can be tricked for a night.
Also, I have to imagine you get some points for bringing your woman there as a sacrifice, you might get better results bring your wife along.
iluminatiNYC 11y ago
I fully understand the frustration, but you have to let it go. Detachment is the path to enlightenment and all that. :)
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Naah because it's the women who control who has sex, not men. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, and in a group with essentially no rules the women will just default back to "share the alpha, ignore the beta's"
Well that's kind of a truth but at the same time you need to have the looks and physique to help you. There is a fair amount of genetic lottery involved, but it really depends on the type of woman you want to attract. "Quality" has different meanings for different people. Some people just value looks, other value looks and other things. "Quality" Is entirely subjective for the most part.
I am short (5'8) and somewhat burly, so my looks are only going to get me so far but I do have enough luck because I have a decent set of conversational and other skills that make me attractive to women.
I am in the process of building a relationship with a woman I hope will be the 3rd person in our relationship. It's all about picking and choosing your battles.
If you didn't roll well in the genetic lottery, well there is nothing you can do about that but you can focus on all the other aspects of yourself that make you attractive to women.
zeroday22 11y ago
I am really surprised that in this group that you didn't need to bring a partner along, otherwise I would assume it would be dominated by men looking to score; like all other social settings where sex is the PRIMARY goal.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
That's more of a thing from the swinger community. The poly lifestyle really favors women very strongly, and it's kind of un surprising that women are drawn to it heavily.
Well, a certain type of woman anyway..
zeroday22 11y ago
"Quality" Is entirely subjective for the most part.
NO.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
What I consider a "10" someone else would consider a "5"
so yes, it is.
Kalepsis 11y ago
The only way I can reply to this is to relate my own experience. My girlfriend and I have been together for (nearly) two years, and we have been poly from the start. We both entered the relationship with non-exclusivity laid out clearly as a permanent facet of being together. While this may sound like a flawed notion to most people out there, it works for us. Polyamory is not for everyone, clearly. With that being said, I think you just found a horrible example of a swinger's club. I agree with your assessment of the women, men, and couples depicted (I've seen it myself before) but I will say that, like most of those "speed-dating" events, and "singles cruises", etc., it is nothing more than a thinly-veiled attempt by sluts and alphas to get extracurricular tail.
Here's my advice: stay away from group events. Don't touch clubs, or parties, or trips with a ten-foot pole. Just start dating as if you were single. There's no need for a community, or a support group to tell you how you should handle your relationships; just be straightforward and honest, and consider any failures a stepping-stone toward your future significant relationships.
Since you're much like myself (introverted, probably socially-awkward, intelligent but not suave, prefer to watch behavior and take notes rather than interact) I suggest that you push your personal comforts a little to find another relationship. Your wife seems like a very accepting person who genuinely wants you to be happy, so don't let her open-mindedness be wasted. Start a conversation in a bookstore, help a cute girl reach the top shelf in a supermarket, buy a woman a drink and chat her up. The best way to find your ideal sexual dynamic is to develop a real relationship and integrate it into the one you already have.
Avoid those groups; they don't necessarily represent us poly folk very well.
the_red_scimitar 11y ago
Extremely good advice. I'm an open-relationship guy (unmarried) and doing very well with it, but never have gone to any of these group things. The invites have always come from people I find extremely unattractive on either a physical or personality basis.
Exactly as you say: date and integrate.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
That is exactly what we have ended up doing. :) Thanks for the advice though.
James_Coook 11y ago
Finally. Thanks for putting this up man. I've been looking forward to this for awhile.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
yeah sorry it took so long.. I have been busy with... stuff
James_Coook 11y ago
No man. In my opinion, its not long enough. Its interesting stuff!
[deleted] 11y ago
Let me guess: The Alpha guys are all there by themselves and didn't bring their gfs? :D
Clauderoughly 11y ago
The Alpha guys mostly didn't have Gf's. Some of them had a steady "primary partner" but they always had a harem going on
the_red_scimitar 11y ago
Interesting. I only consider myself alpha in some ways (particularly about knowing and holding my frame), yet that's exactly my situation. I have a primary (not married or living together, but definitely an acknowledged primary), and my other regular gfs. Heh, one of them actually calls it my "harem".
Clauderoughly 11y ago
You know you are alpha, when women are willing to share you :)
the_red_scimitar 11y ago
Some gfs are more into the sharing than others. A couple pretty much expect it (and even ask "Did you see X (another gf) this week? No? Why not? You should see her.")
(yeah, I know in a monogamous context that would sound suspicious, but since we all know who's dating whom and when, that isn't the case here.)
That's just to make a point: some really see open, multiple relationships as healthy. Others see it as a sort of necessary thing. Others understand it intellectually, but not emotionally. It runs the gamut.
James_Coook 11y ago
So Clauderoughly did you get any action from your time hanging out with these folks? Also what type of IT skills did you have that these chicks would keep hitting you up.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Nope, but I did get to meet some interesting and strange people.
The usual "Can you fix my computer cos it's slow and virus filled" crap.
BooksofMagic 11y ago
I work in IT too and this is one of the reason I don't have many friends. I think that too many beta's are out there spreading the word that 'working on computers is easy' and getting easy validation by being helpful. These people then spread this message and soon enough I have people who dislike me because I won't fix their shit for them - I only tell them what they need to do. Fuck them if they think my time is worth less then theirs. Only my mom, wife and kids get 24/7 IT support from me.
RebootedMale 11y ago
Monthly meetings? Anything that needs monthly meetings is too weird. Sex should be more natural than that.
So for ten years all the polys stop being polys and then start again. Smells like bullshit.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Well that was the nature of the group. I did find it weird that there were little to know 30ish people there.
might have been one or two, but for the most part the group was cleaved along those age brackets
[deleted] 11y ago
I viewed your invitation as reason to pour a drink at 9am. Otherwise, good FR
zeroday22 11y ago
Why did you marry a woman who is not interested in Sex? Tax reasons?
Clauderoughly 11y ago
because apart from the sex thing, she is my best friend and partner in crime. We have been through some serious shit over the last 10 years and come out stronger than ever.
She is the woman I truly want to keep in my life for the rest of my days.
I did an ama about the subject here.
http://www.reddit.com/r/NSFWIAMA/comments/1pxey3/iama_man_who_is_married_to_an_asexual_woman_and/
zeroday22 11y ago
You say she feels nothing when you have sex, but you still have only done it a few times. If my SO felt nothing I would still pressure her into putting out. It is no different than a handjob or a blowjob in which she gets nothing truly pleasurable out of it besides pleasing her man. Also you should be getting those all the time! Offer to make dinner or download a movie she likes in exchange. I really don't get it! Like why doesn't she Jerk you off every morning, it would only take a few minutes of her time, like making an egg for breakfast.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
Yeah I am not going to debate this with you. I suggest you do some reading in the AMA I posted, and do some general reading on Asexuality.
I am not going to pressure her into anything. I like her too much for that.
zeroday22 11y ago
Really? Like a handy every day is a huge sacrifice for a married woman? WTF is going on!! Honestly I am giving you some good Redpill advice here, ask her for sexual favors! If she doesn't feel anything sexual then so what? It should be like any other task you ask for help with, except that she knows this brings you pleasure and should do it because she loves you. That is so much of a better reason than doing the dishes because they are filling up the sink and getting in the way.
I get sexual favors all the time when I know my GF is too tired for full blown sex, or I am not up for a good performance and just want to be lazy. She might not get anything out of it except a sore wrist, but she does it because she loves me.
BooksofMagic 11y ago
TRP describes relationships between normal, healthy people. In OP's case, asexuality is a known disorder and well outside the norm that we normally see around here. He's far more versed (and closer) to the subject than you are.
I think the problem here is you see TRP as a tool for getting more sex but in reality it's a set of tools for getting what you want out of life in general. Everyone takes what tools they need to use and then go forth and mold their lives as they see fit. If OP is happy with his marriage then who are you to be saying he's not doing it right?
zeroday22 11y ago
He isn't happy with it, he goes to shitty sex meetups where he gets no sex. Why not just get some sex type stuff from his wife, and also work on getting some outside of marriage if that is okay with his wife. I mean for fucks sake a hand job would take 10 minutes of her time.
iluminatiNYC 11y ago
Back off dude. He's OK with it, and apparently she doesn't give him grief about him going out to get his. Let it ride, man.
zeroday22 11y ago
But seriously, there is something wrong with not pleasing your partner! It is easier than most household tasks, and brings them pleasure. Why NOT do it?
[deleted] 11y ago
[deleted]
Clauderoughly 11y ago
it was the one group, and I am sure that every group is different.
I got what I needed to from the group, and now I am happy enough just having my normal circle of friends.
A lot of my friends know about my setup, and are very accepting and encouraging of it.
LonelySkull 11y ago
Pansexual isn't a nice way of saying somebody will fuck everything. I'm a pansexual male and it's attraction boundless of physical form. You're either severely ignorant or mentally challenged- or both.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
It is the experience I have had with anyone who self identifies as "pansexual"
So you'll fuck men, women MTF trans, FTM trans.... pretty much anything.
So how exactly am I wrong?
Tactless != Wrong
RebootedMale 11y ago
People will fuck anything. I'm sure some people will fuck pots and pans.
LonelySkull 11y ago
The way you say it, "fuck anything," is highly disrespectful and implies that it's solely about the sex when it's not. The attraction comes primarily from emotion and connection, not "Man, they're hot because of their physical attributes. I want to fuck 'em."
Furthermore, how could anyone do anything other than self-identify their sexuality? Do other people determine your sexuality? That's just silly.
MockingDead 11y ago
And yet, it's true. They will fuck anything.
Clauderoughly 11y ago
So essentially I am not wrong, I am just an asshole.
You must shag an awful lot of fat / ugly women then. Good job, taking one for the team !
LonelySkull 11y ago
You know, I don't really fuck a lot of people, because it's not about the sex. Is the pussy you're drowning in fucking up your vision so severely that you can't read correctly?
Clauderoughly 11y ago
yeah.. must be my eyes.
I think I shall head off to bed. I have you tagged as "Pansexual Chubby chaser" so I don't forget.
nite
LonelySkull 11y ago
I hope one of the people out of the multitude you plow gives you a venereal disease.
MockingDead 11y ago
No need to insult a man for speaking truth.
Or maybe you are jealous?
LonelySkull 11y ago
I'm not jealous of a tactless, wantonly ignorant douche.
MockingDead 11y ago
then why do you sound jealous of him? He is tactless. He's not particularly ignorant.
You want us to say "pansexuality is a thing". Ok, maybe for some fucked up brands of mutation in the brain. Maybe for people too damaged for regular sex.
Also, have you ever thought about how disrespectful pansexuality is? If I date a pansexual (and I did) she basically is saying, I'll fuck anything. So how am I valuable sexually to her?
Should I trust the opinion of a food critic that loves every meal?