Intro: To begin, it's important we all understand that without the social, economic, and religious pressures that existed in the past, monogamy/marriage is a losing prospect. At some point I'll do a write-up/review on Sex at Dawn, but here's the TL;DR--women evolved to be incredibly promiscuous. That doesn't mean they weren't selective (looking for alphas), but it means that when push comes to shove, they want dick, because #evolution. Additionally, more recent evidence has shown that women become bored with long term relationships and lose sexual attraction for their BFs/husbands, sometimes in as quickly as a few months.
This is why I've chosen the path of non-monogamy and plate spinning, and ultimately, it's why you should too.
Body: OK, so suppose you've done your job--you've read the sidebar, hit the gym, learned some game, and have become the sort of man women want to be with, to the point where you're seeing 2-3 (or more baller?) at the same time. Anyone who's done this knows what happens next: at some point, after a few weeks to a month (two if you're lucky), the girl will want to move from the "lover" arrangement to the "BF/provider" arrangement.
The "why" is simple: hypergamy. You're the best/most-alpha guy she can get--you've fucked her good and proven yourself by holding strong frame--now she wants to lock you down, because that's what our society says she should do and it's the most comfortable and easy situation for her to be in. Also, keep in mind, the hotter she is, the more she's used to getting her way, and it's probably been super easy for her to lock down every other guy she's been with up to this point.
However, that's not what you want--because you know that in the long run she'll lose attraction to you yada, yada, yada. At the same time, you've invested some time and energy in the girl, and hopefully, she's hot right? So you want to keep that going. The question is, what's the best way to do that?
This happened to me recently, so we'll treat it as sort of a field report and you guys can tell me where I fucked up or could've done things differently.
Q: So how do you know a plate's going to break?
A: Sex either becomes less important to her AND/OR she becomes more subservient during sex and stops caring about having an orgasm--it's all about you getting what you want and she'll tell you that explicitly. She'll also want to hang around more and extend dates, sleep over, and stay in your presence as long as possible.
So, what do you do when she asks about the relationship?
1) Whenever she brings it up, treat it like a shit test, but in this case you can't agree and amplify.
For example, if she says, "we should spend more time together" and you A&A you'll end up saying something like, "yes, let's go to Vegas and get married this instant," and bitches be crazy, so who knows? At the very least she'll have license to ask for more commitment and that's not what you want.
So you have two choices: disqualify or ignore.
In my case, my plate wanted to hang out on a particular day and I was busy (with another plate), so she got all jealous and asked how many other girls I was sleeping with and if I was seeing a girl that night. I chose to disqualify, texting back, "um, just hanging with a friend--jeez, didn't see you as the jealous type (crazy face emoji)."
Of course, she then responds, "I bet you're getting your dick wet right now."
At this point, my only choice was to ignore: 36 hours--and yes, she sent a few other texts, but I just didn't respond. When I finally did, it was as if nothing happened: "hey what are you up to tonight--you should come over for dinner." She did and we banged and she didn't bring it up that night or the next couple times we hung out.
However, you obviously can't ignore or disqualify forever, because eventually she's going to want to have a straight up conversation about your relationship and try to pin you down on an answer. Understand, this is the beginning of the end, but you can potentially extend the arrangement if you:
2) Give her a reason why you can't or don't want to be monogamous AND she accepts.
TL;DR--the less you explain, the better.
Probably the best reason here is: A) I'm leaving for work/school/some other reason in 6 months or less and I don't want to promise you something I can't deliver. Why? Because you're giving her a reason that's beyond your control, so she knows she can't blame you (not that it won't eventually stop her from doing so).
OK, the other thing you can do is give her the true reason, but understand, very few chicks are going to be able to handle this--basically it's what I said at the beginning: B) you are non-monogamous/don't believe in LTR's.
Regardless of what reason you're giving, always come back to this refrain: I like you, I think you're beautiful, we have fun together, and I want to keep seeing you. Or something like that. In this way, you're not committing to her, but at the same time, you're showing her that you're willing to give her at least some of what she wants, that being time, attention, and affection.
Initially, when my plate brought it up in a straightforward way, I tried reason A: "hey, busy with my writing and watching my son, etc., so just not sure I can give you the time you want." In this way I was able to stall a few weeks, but eventually she kept pushing, so I gave her reason B.
At this point, she said she didn't mind me being with other girls, but she wanted to be the "primary" girl. LMAO--once the hamster starts spinning, it doesn't stop.
Anyway, up to you guys what you want to do once you get to this point. If you want to make her the "primary" girl, good luck with that, but I'd steer clear of anything that allows her to pull rank/priority. In my case I just laughed and said, "I don't think that's how it works." followed with the: I like you, blah, blah, blah...
Conclusion: I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but rule #1 of spinning plates or being with women in general is never, ever be the one who's bringing up the status of the relationship. Assuming you haven't done that, treating it as 1) a shit test when she does, and then 2) giving her plausible reasons why you don't want an exclusive LTR are really your only options when it comes to prolonging a plate from dropping.
Understand ultimately that eventually every plate is going to drop--I mean, if any of you have figured out a fool-proof way not to have that happen I'd love to hear it. But the inevitable truth, even with a seemingly perfect fuck-buddy/FWB, is that either at some point she decides you're the alpha she wants and tries to lock you down, or she ends up fucking someone else and becomes disinterested in you. Remember: the wall is coming, and they all know it. Even for older women who are past the wall, at some point they want to find a beta who will commit rather than wasting her time with you.
With my plate, I finally just told her: "look, it sounds like you really want to be in a monogamous relationship heading toward marriage. That's not what I want. I really like you, care about you, etc., but I also don't want to keep you from finding what you want."
And she said, "Well, OK, I appreciate your honesty, but that probably means we can't be friends anymore." That's where I left it last night--I guess we'll see what happens.
But no way am I giving up the frame or compromising my beliefs. I also don't think it's a good practice to lie--not because of any moral obligation--but because it's incongruent. Additionally, if you fuck a girl over through dishonesty and she figures it out, that is NOT a good situation. That's the kind of scenario where women literally go crazy, steal your stuff, threaten you, make up false rape/abuse accusations, etc. This is especially true if you're stringing her along telling her she's the only one and promising her an LTR.
The way I see it, I want her to be the one who decides to walk away, takes responsibility for the relationship ending, and I want her to think of me in as positive a light as possible, because at least some of the girls who walk away will definitely come back later.
Like I said, would love to hear what you guys think and/or any additional advice on this topic.
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Wolveryn 5y ago
Why prolong it? If it ends it ends, that effort has the opportunity cost of some other girl.
I prefer to diversify my stock portfolio thanks
GAndGMethod 5y ago
People don’t like it when I say this but it’s a strat that works for me.
I propose and do a fake engagement that I have zero plans to follow up on.
Which comes after I make them my “girlfriend” after the whole “what are we speech” delay that speech as much as possible, eventually make them girlfriend, and fake engagement when it starts to get to the stage of talking about kids and marriage.
Which gives you what? 2-3 year plates.
I just try to delay the plate breaking as much as possible. Just tell them what they want to hear and give them what they want. Even if it is just a fantasy.
Not for everybody, but works for me. I still see other girls through this whole process.
If they love you they will forgive you and let you do whatever the fuck you want as long as they don’t lose you. Which is why they don’t break up with me. They break up with me they lose me. It’s win win for me, lose lose for her.
nadolny7 5y ago
You should do a post detailing your more extreme strategies, never seen such a dark triad example here
GAndGMethod 5y ago
I'm working on making most of my comments full posts. My inbox has been getting blown up with people wanting mentorship and how to guides.
How to get free housing
How to extract any resource you are after from her (4ktvs, pay off your dept/college tuition, driving her luxury cars, buying you a car, etc) whatever you can think of you can get.
My sexual strategy of having as many kids as I can w/o paying child support.
How to have plates last years with fake engagements.
Since there is demand ill write the free housing post first. If that does numbers ill commit to writing more for the red pill.
A lot of my game goes against the red pill, I show emotions, I love creating drama, I don’t care about self improvement or men’s rights, I believe you should always shit where you eat to move up and have more power at work I’m not scared of rape charges in fact I invite them.
All I care about is what I’m doing works. No morals or ethics. Those are nothing more but self imposed social conditioning mind prisons.
nadolny7 5y ago
It’s pretty red pill since there isn’t any morals or ethics, just what really works or not. And hey, if fake engaging leads to 2-3 year plates, that’s by far the best results I’ve seen around here, can’t complain.
If you could write more about your mindset and how to let loose of the social conditioning that would be fantastic as well.
Redpiller77 5y ago
This is some next level fucked up shit. Not moralizing, but what the fuck. Worst is that I might even try it, can't deny the results.
BloodSurgery 5y ago
That's actually an amazing strategy, morals aside. Gonna save it for when I can apply it, seems very effective.
ChrimsonChin988 5y ago
This is pretty fucking twisted but I like your honesty and not giving a fuck..
Small question though; why do you still consider them plates? From what you say (living together with them) this sounds much more like an LTR. I interpret it more like you LTR them for 1-2 years while holding the carrot in front of them (marriage) then when their blinds come down (no longer blind love) you cut them off. Or are you 'fake' engaged to 2-3 woman at a time? If so, how do you manage that?
Doesn't seem like a plate situation to me (I assume fake proposing to her means spending more time with her, dinners, meeting her family; which is all commitment). So with regards to spinning plates and giving 0 commitment you confirm it's impossible to sustain this for longer than a few months as well, just like OP...
GAndGMethod 5y ago
Because I still see other women is why I still consider them plates.
A ltr I would only be seeing her.
I don’t actually call them plates, I call them primary’s and give them rankings.
It’s not hard to pull this off with multiple women at once when you keep your own place and move into there’s. I can be living with multiple women at once.
Again once you realize you can get away with anything as long as they love you you don’t have to worry and trip out about cover stories of why you are not around as much etc.
I just don’t care. I don’t change who I am during this process. My girls don’t care if I fuck other girls, they know on a deep level I’m still fucking other girls.
I do this for years, not months. So no. I don’t have the same problem as op.
warlordchad 5y ago
That’s fucking savage bro—not sure if I have the balls to pull it off, but if it works, good on you. Sexual strategy is amoral right?
GAndGMethod 5y ago
Pretty much for both genders.
Women sleep around and get married to extract resources as long as possible.
I fuck them and dangle that carrot on a stick as long as possible.
They are trying to use me, I just beat them to the punch.
And yeah I’m pretty heartless when it comes to game, just a natural Machiavellian. Like I said it’s not for everybody, but the results I get speak for themselves.
Changing what works all to please society and to uphold someone else’s view on “morals” is stupid to me.
I just choose to be free of morals along time ago in my mind and what I can get away with is endless. I don’t have any voice in my mind telling me something I’m doing is wrong and to stop. It tells me now what I’m doing is right because it will achieve the goal I’m after. That’s all that matters.
It’s a very liberating feeling to not have your mind locked in a social conditioning cage.
nadolny7 5y ago
Wow. And how do you manage to get rid off all those years of society imposed morals? I feel bad just thinking about “wasting” a couple years of a woman prime when my intentions are just having them as plates.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Morality is interesting, it's a sort of social rule set, that granted benefits the masses but sucks from the individual. Breaking these social norms used to mean ostracization or banishing from the tribe, today not so much. The network is so big that we aren't isolated to a selected group.
Fucking over your friends and family would probably isolate you fairly quickly, but fucking over the odd women here and there who your allies have no close ties to probably wont do too much damage.
The biggest hurdle for most in exucuting behaviors agains the "moral code" is being raised with one set of values that benefit the masses, which makes it harder to divert to another set of values that benefit yourself. We also have empathy, which plays a huge role in our ability to display selfish behaviors over group behaviors.
Women are inherently solipsistic, which allows them to actually believe what they do, making them far more effective machiavellians. They will rationalize even their darkest aspects if it furthers their evolutionary imperative. Men struggle more because we can logically see it's wrong and hence, following through is far more difficult.
[deleted] 5y ago
I'm actually with you on your analysis, but I simply cannot pull off what you're saying here. I just can't do it, wish I could. I prefer women out of my league, either up or down, rather than have to face any question of a permanent LTR.
HistoryChad 5y ago
Sounds selfish and miserable to go that low. You're more of a woman than any crazy bitch I've met
[deleted] 5y ago
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GAndGMethod 5y ago
I agree and that is the exact reason it works so well.
The best game you can learn is from women, especially ones with bpd, apsd, bi polar.
I try to find women like those, watch the game they run and copy them and run it back on them and other women.
I actually game 100% like a women.
I plan to marry for money also. There are so many rich 30 year old women just desperate to spend and spoil their money on a man like me.
Again my sexual strat is that of a women’s.
I have gotten jewelry, expensive trips, I get to drive there spare luxury cars, gotten them to invest in my business ideas.
I’m always in the female role in my relationships. That is the place to be. Just like a lion. I set back and make the women do everything.
analbac 5y ago
I'm just wondering where the self-respect has room in all that? I know a lot of people who think they're super alpha and all that but aren't humble at all, have no class and aren't really respected by anyone. Some people just seems like drug addicts when it comes to sex and even if they're getting some it's not healthy at all.
GAndGMethod 5y ago
I’m not sure I understand your question.
For me I don’t have any model/need to have self respect for myself. I don’t have any ego/morals/ethos.
For the others around me I give them more value than I take. So even if I do something crazy that SHOULD fuck up any other relationship, it has no effect because I give more than I receive.
I have extra social capital to blow. I can get away with whatever I want.
I will destroy my own social circle just to accomplish whatever goal I have for it.
Relationships can always be repaired.
Self respect is over rated and not needed at all. Everybody is selfish and just want to accomplish their individual goals above all else. I help others accomplish their goals, in exchange I get whatever I need from them and they give me a lot of leeway on my behavior.
It’s all transactional, every relationship there is a value exchange below the surface.
Friendships/relationships are formed off value exchange, not real friendship.
It’s just nobody wants to admit that because of social conditioning.
TheScarletScholar 5y ago
This is the nihilistic- realistic perspective I've begun to garner. I know religion is a hot topic but the longer I've been alive the more likely I have come to realize the likelihood of a "God" existing is extremely low. Morals and ethics were put in place to control the behavior of individuals for the benefit of society. The way to force people to adopt these is primarily through fear of a higher power. Absurdism seems to be the most pragmatic belief theory right now which pushes me towards individual moral relativism.
I can see how this would be viewed to be extremely unpopular and dangerous for people to accept, but so is TRP.
ProofPear6 5y ago
I'm an atheist. And I think many morals and ethics are genetic in origin. A lot of these rules have very real survival benefits. Religion just co-opted them and twisted them. Religion is very good at making you believe they are the source of things, be it morality, community, good fortune or meaning of life.
TheScarletScholar 5y ago
Which morals or ethics exactly are genetic? I disagree. I think that we have tendencies to avoid the taboos of the specific society we are born into. This way we avoid rejection from our tribe which thousands of years ago would result in death. However since these taboos differ from group to group there is no universal moral or ethic to be followed.
kenpachitz 5y ago
How do you handle the inevitable request to move in together?
What happens when the illusion finally breaks?
How sustainable is this, really? I get the feeling that word will get around and you'll be considered scorched earth soon enough.
GAndGMethod 5y ago
They just move in/or I move into there place, while still keeping my place. I don't mind living with women, so not a big deal. Keep separate bedrooms and the whole "never cohabitate" red pill nonsense is not a big deal.
The illusion never breaks because I start a fight than break up the engagement, after that they just get stuck on you wanting you back, knowing they came so close to getting that happy ending. Never getting closure, which is a major key to also being the one that truly owns her mind.
You give a girl closure there is no reason for them to ever to see you again, don't give it to them and you keep them in a continuous state of alpha widowhood.
I just make them earn there way back into my life and start the cycle over again, its endless tell they come to their senses and realize what is going on, that only happens when they fall out of love. Which last about 2-3 years, in science experiments and in my own reference experience that is the max amount of time that blind love lasts.
Which lines up perfectly with the amount of time I want to keep them around. 2-3 years. After that is when everything breaks.
All relationship breaks, not just plates, my method is just about extending there shelf life from months to years.
I don't care about my reputation, I want my repetition to be the most mentally fucked up sadist, controlling, "abusive", "bad boy" a women has ever come across. Her spreading the word about me only makes the others want me more, it benefits me because they all want to be the one to save and rescue me from my demons.
ScoobySquats 5y ago
Jesus Christ dude this is some D.E.N.N.I.S. system shit
CasualPlay3r 5y ago
you are onto something
i have come across some simmilar experiences before, women really just fall for the savior complex.
the more fucked up you come as and maintain frame (while remaining alpha, im talking about aggresive behaviour, drama which gives her emotional rollercoasters and unpredictability in your mood, your typical psychopath) the more they fall for it.
GAndGMethod 5y ago
yeah thats pretty much what i do/am and then some.
there are two ways to play it, let them try to save you, or corrupt them enough they become as bad as you.
The second option is what they really want, the savior part is just a naive front/lie they can use, so they have an excuse when you have her doing things she said she would never do in every aspect of her life. Very bad things.
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wildtimes3 5y ago
Do you see any commonalities to what they think they would find closure in? To what they actually would find closure in?
I once had one ask to fuck me for closure.
GAndGMethod 5y ago
Yes fucking for closure is the most common one.
my line is
"you'll never be able to move on, you will always be thinking of me when you are with him(her new guy) its not fair to your boyfriend that you're thinking of me when your with him, you deserve a fresh start and a chance to have a real relationship, we need to see each other so we can talk more about what happen between us in person" blah blah blah I fuck her so she can get closure, so she can finally give her new boyfriend a real chance. She gets her closure by cheating and fucking me while she has a new guy.
twisted creatures. You will never be able to truly know them and be on their level (game wise) tell you become as twisted as them.
Her initiating the closure is her dark triad way of trying to get you hooked again on her pussy to get you back. I initiate it sometimes too for the same reasons. I wont allow her to move on tell i'm completely done with her, tell then shes a little slave, she wont be able to move on tell i give her that last pity fuck.
wildtimes3 5y ago
Upvoting. Thanks for the reply. I agree with you, especially the middle paragraph, and the above poster. Savage af. They are too, no doubt.
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WoodleyWarrior85 5y ago
Have dealt with many of these issues myself. Plates inevitably issue ultimatums for exclusivity. Here's what I've found is helpful.
Don't over verbalize. You aren't obligated to explicitly answer questions like: "What are we?" and "Do you have commitment issues?"
It's usually best to deflect these questions in a playful manner. Another option is to imply she's overthinking things, and then calm her down with light touching.
Also, bring up the feasibility/practicality of marriage. Like, what does she mean when she asks where the relationship "is heading?" Is she trying to imply this is a dry run for marriage and kids? If so, you are years away from wanting either of those.
To keep such questions from coming up in the first place, be careful about doing boyfriend activities with plates. I used to think that going out to dinner was a neutral activity (especially if you split the check), but I've since realized dinner dates suggest more of a committed LTR frame.
BitcoinFan7 5y ago
I've just told my girl straight up that I'm not getting married again. "Fool me once..." et al. She has accepted that this is my stance and I'm not changing it but sticks around anyway because I am high value.
Chesehead5 5y ago
Yup. I've made this mistake before, particularly the one regarding boyfriend activities, because it only inevitably puts you in their frame if they desire long-term commitment.
Metalgear222 5y ago
I noticed that as well, so when I go out with plates for dinner it’s only after I’ve fucked them that day and when we get to the restaurant I sit on the same side of the table as them to keep kino going and take away from the provider/date feel, always splitting the check.
GodOfDinosaurs 5y ago
You're one of THOSE people
Sonny_Luna 5y ago
You are an ULTIMATE douche.
Also, on a serious note, that's a very beta move and I suspect undermines your original intent immensely.
Locko_O 5y ago
someone doesnt like to pay her part of the check
Sonny_Luna 5y ago
Someone doesn't know what's going on at all.
memphisjohn 5y ago
Which part is "beta"?
Kino, splitting the check, or sitting on the same side?
And why?
Sonny_Luna 5y ago
Sitting on the same side. I'm half joking. If it works for you that's cool.
memphisjohn 5y ago
I never used to do it back in the bluepill days, but it's one little tip that I picked up from one of the pickup guys. I don't do it every time, but when I do it definitely sets a different tone to a date. Have never heard any commentary on though, until now.
wildtimes3 5y ago
No holds barred. This just makes sense at certain restaurant tables.
In the documentary about his life the girls called Biggie Smalls a big lovable teddy bear. You never heard that about Tupac Shakur.
Sometimes you’re Biggie; sometimes you’re 2Pac
Sonny_Luna 5y ago
Yeah it's just a small thing. No offense intended.
warlordchad 5y ago
Good stuff. I mean, the only thing I’d say is that at some point the girl is going to want to tie you down no matter what you do. It’s pretty hard to plate a chick for a year and for her to never ask the, “where is this going?” question.
But absolutely: the longer you can avoid that frame, the better.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
The problem with plate spinning is that it is an evolutionary dead end in modern society. I do not want my genes to get cucked by the contra pill or the rubber. I ll spin plates, and eventually have a family.
xesup2 5y ago
The natural solution is polygyny. That's really what women need.
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Gaboyski_ 5y ago
I've been thinking if this could be a valid LTR strategy in the modern era: spin plates in your 20s and 30s, then settle down with a young low n-count woman. It's the reverse to the female AF/BB tactic of riding the cock carousel in her prime years and then lock down a provider beta when she's about to hit the Wall.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
That is the best way for a complete life imo. But find a virgin and also implement polygamy if you can. A man needs abundance. Although I dont think this is legal in the West. But you dont even have to get married. Just reproduce.
ProofPear6 5y ago
I feel that spreading my genes around is a bad deal for me. Evolution works at the genes level, my genes want to continue to survive and they are using me and manipulating me into behaviours that suit them. Basically, I am their temporary tool to be used and discarded. The discarding part will happen especially fast when a newer younger copy (i.e. a child) comes on the scene.
So I feel that for me to get the most out of my life is to actively resist my genes manipulation and prevent reproduction. Does that mean that future generations will be less equipped to do the same? Sure, but I don't care about the genetic health of the species.
ChrimsonChin988 5y ago
I agree with you that your genes are only using you and I don't care about the future of the species/earth too much either... However, how do you see yourself at 35-40 when most of your friends will be getting kids etc. To me it seems so much fun to teach a mini version of myself how to go through life. Also, where do you see yourself at 60/70/80/90? Current life expectancy is like 85 years, if you're "fortunate" enough to live to like 95 most of your friends will be dead by then and without kids I think those last 25 years will be lonely as fuck.
If I've learned anything from old people it's that family is one of the most important and meaningful things. So although i agree with you from a strategic perspective that it's smarter to never have kids (expensive, time consuming, you need a (preferably 'good') woman to get them etc etc) it seems like an incredibly dull life to me.
Even though we, our children and eventually the entire species will die and nothing really matters in the end it still feels completely meaningless to me to not have children...
augustopinochet27 5y ago
I agree @ ChrimsonChin988. 90% of these “chasing my purpose” bros will hit their mental wall at 60 and have a miserable 20-30 years past that.
ProofPear6 5y ago
I'm 36. I feel fine. Those friends and colleagues getting married and having kids all find the thing horrible. Take a look at the childfree and antinatalism communities if you want some stories about how it can also turn out. Also note that you have the choice of getting married, you don't have the choice of living happily ever after. Many marriages fail and those that stay together don't have to be happy. And then of course it's perfectly possible to have a life long LTR without marriage. I never said I don't want to stick with only one girl one day.
As for what happens at 60/70/80/90. Well my grandfather lost his wife somewhere in his seventies. He got a new girlfriend and lived happily with her until he died. There is a persistent myth that long standing relationships are somehow worth more and contain more happiness than young relationships. This is complete nonsense. The story about family being very important are a combination of the genes making you, self delusion and chasing sunk costs. Friends can be made at any moment in your life if you so choose. My parents are retired and they have more friends now than when they were still working. Mom has started doing fitness and made a bunch of younger friends.
[deleted] 5y ago
Bingo. This stuff isn't rocket surgery.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Its not the relationships bro. Its the children. I am for polygamy and can even do it in my country. As Napoleon put it, women are just baby making machines. I want a son and a grand son. Not another nice car and a HB8 at 80. Edit:
I do not care for women nor relationships except for my mother and sisters. Isnt this what “ a man with purpose” supposed to be? Even thoughI believe this purpose is a bluepill buzzword.
ProofPear6 5y ago
You know what you want and that gives you purpose. This is great and you should strive for what you want. But this is still a personal preference, you cannot from this now say; all people should live this way, or; this is the only good and right way to live.
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augustopinochet27 5y ago
I am for polygamy and I believe its the best scenario for men. However the sperm bank thing isn’t enough as I do not care for having 3000 bastard children raised by cucks or lesbians. I want sons that I can train, teach, pass on my legacy , culture, heritage and my family line. This is not entirely materialistic on a genetic level. But letting your offspring be reared by some foster parents or a single mom is as bad as cuckery. A boy needs his real father for the best outcome. Think kratos and boy, who doesn’t want that?
ProofPear6 5y ago
How much do you care about your fathers legacy? your grandfathers legacy? great-grandfathers legacy? Do you know your great-grandfathers name?
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Yes I know my family line going back 600 years. And I know my genetic lineage going back 4000 years. I care, they cared and fought for it. I owe it to my forefathers to ensure their survival.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
But you do not even have to know. You only have to look in the mirror and read their texts and traditions to see them and respect them. I happen to be lucky to know their deeds in history, as they were high level officials for the monarchy.
ProofPear6 5y ago
I think its amazing that you know this much about your families history, and I believe this makes you an outlier. And if this family line is important to you and gives you meaning in life then all the more power to you.
However, I believe that what I choose to do with my life is up to me. When my ancestors decided to reproduce they did this knowing full well that the line could end one day. What they did in their life was up to them. I owe them nothing.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Everything becomes better when you think your ancestors and gods watch you at all times. You do not have to regulate your desires but always compare it to a higher being that is wise and judgemental yet loving and proud of you. Appreciate it for acknowledging the merit in my beliefs.
KeffirLime 5y ago
One of the perks of being a human being is that we are able to transcend our evolutionary imperative in order to better serve ourselves.
It ultimately comes down to a choice, it's a decision each person needs to make individually.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Complete bluepill enlightenment hyper individualist thinking. You are not just an individual. You are not some special trans human buddha. You are a man part of a tribe and a family, you owe being a good father to your ancestors.Its not a choice for human beings not to reproduce and interact with children. It is natures essential.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Of course you are, you have agency over your own actions, the results of your actions may vary, but until you are unable to make decision by yourself, for yourself, you are an individual.
You don't owe dead people shit. You owe yourself decisions that make you happy. If that's kids great, if it's a life without kids, great too. You'll be far more proficient at living a life you desire to be apart of over one you feel you "owe" because of some outdated moral code.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Those you call “some dead people” are the reason any of this including you exist. How degenerate can you get to call your ancestors “some dead people”? Happiness is overrated.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Those that were alive, I treated with respect as they did men, our relationship was great and I aided them as much as possible until they passed. They did not burden me with any expectations of how I should life my life.
Those that have passed have lived their lives, the same way I will live mine.
When I pass I will not burden my offspring with the duty to live a life as I see fit, I will endorse their own agency to life a life as they see fit.
No it's not, happiness is the result of a life functioning as you want. You're basically endorsing suffering to live a life that's been prescribe to you by external entities.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Suffering is what gives your life meaning and real “purpose” that your false idol redpill always advocates as primary . You cannot find purpose in the material or the job or any joy. But only in suffering and struggle namely in the name of the Divine.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Life comes with a degree of suffering. You do not need to endure an entire life of suffering to have purpose. Enough to appreciate joy, bliss and happiness is enough, it also does not need to be tied to a deity.
​
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augustopinochet27 5y ago
I have had enough of your heretical objections heathen. Begone
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augustopinochet27 5y ago
Goodluck with this bluepill nihilism. You are not an individual. No one is. Living a life of desire is hedonistic and is for weak men. Not Stoic or strong at all. Live a life of purpose, which in reality for 90% includes a family. I know its hard nowadays but 90%+ people here dont know what they want and will have a miserable and unaccomplished childless life where they will drink fuck and “lift” themselves to a lonely grave. This is no way for men to to act think or behave.
ProofPear6 5y ago
Don't tell me what is and is not stoic. I've read the discourses and the meditations and the Enchiridion twice. There is nothing in stoicism that says you must have offspring. However it does clearly say; "Follow where reason leads".
augustopinochet27 5y ago
I can tell you what I think. It is not stoic to follow your desires. Reason is jot about maximizing joy or desire. I read them too. I do not even consider myself a stoic but I used it as an example so people can grasp it.
ProofPear6 5y ago
This is where stoic philosophy gets pretty nuanced. Stoicism says that you should not let your happiness be dependent on your ability to satisfy desires. But that doesn't mean you are not allowed to satisfy desires if you so choose.
Stoicism also teaches that external outcomes are not under your control. You for example might fail to accomplish your goal of perpetuating your family line. And you wanting to have offspring is just as much a desire as someone wanting to pork HB9s.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
No. They are not equally noble nor equally difficult. HB9 is easy compared to raising good men.Wanting to even mindlessly penetrate meat with rubber and chase numbers in your bank account for eternity is the most part of the matrix bluepill shit I have seen. You are getting cucked by modernity and are robbed off any actual self realization. I do not desire women inherintly. But that’s probably why I have always had an excess of them even as a blue pill.
The reality is if your desire is pussy , you do not possess the warrior or the noble aristocracy soul. You are a metaphorically reincarnation of the lower caste aka the societal betas. For higher men legs open automatically
Rupturednutsack 5y ago
The Sunday school is strong with this one
augustopinochet27 5y ago
I am a pagan you peasant. I was never even christian.
Rupturednutsack 5y ago
Is that the religion pretty much in line with mental illness or is it the nature-boy kind of revived one?
Consider that those who do not believe in religion spent their time on better things, after all by worshipping your god(s), you’re just another servant..
By the sound of things you’re a free man.. except you’re bound by the word of a god who might not even exist. So you don’t want to do what you say you do because you want to, you’re compelled to because your god ordered you to do so.
ProofPear6 5y ago
In christian teachings anything that isn't christian is pagan. So he could literally be any religion other than christianity.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
No it is traditional and honourable belief system. I sacrifice animals with my own hands every year, hunt, wrestle as a tradition and part of the religion. So it is not some hippie new age paganism. Its a religion based on the principle Sky-god( like zeus, Woden, or Jupiter) but with a lot of other gods, spirits myths and mainly in traditional rites of passage/ rituals. It is not exactly polytheism as hierarchy of gods is recognized but you can try to see it metaphorically if you want to understand and appreciate paganism of any kind.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
I am happy to be a servant and the scourge of God and his champion. So was Ceaser, Genghis Khan, Atilla, Charlamagne... They are just betas right? Lmao kid.
Rupturednutsack 5y ago
You got me wrong, they aren’t betas at all, but believe it or not, all of those leaders likely had someone who was down to earth enough whispering into their ear to remind them that “you are only human”.
You are no exception
KeffirLime 5y ago
Labeling shit and saying shit without backing isn't exactly an argument.
How so? Many individuals make up a collective.
Why? Living a life of desire means you are adequately able to provide yourself with a desirable life, meaning you are skilled at navigating the challenges of life to provide for yourself.
Being able to fulfill your desires is exceptionally strong. Such a large portion of society is miserable because they are unable to do what they want with their lives and are forced to live a certain way, but hey, at least they're doing what they owe the world.
I'm not disputing that having a family gives most purpose, I'd disputing whether it should be a personal choice or some obscure duty to some vague entity that will not reward you for doing so.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Desire and joy and happiness is what deteriorates the soul. Look for challenge, difficulty and accomplishment, and yes that includes having a family and raising children even in todays fucked world. You will get spiritual relief from working towards God, family and your forefather. In my religion I worship my ancestors partly. This is what the Romans did and they conquered the world. Their goal was always to work and surpass their ancestors to honour them. They didnt fight and die for pussy and money for dignitas. This philosophy makes strong men and a powerful life. But you have to let go if strictly materialist and atheistic axioms to grasp and feel it. This whole fullfilling your desire to fuck and make money is peasent level slave mentality. That I refuse to subscribe too. But maybe that why I fucked dozens of women and dated models even when I was a bluepilled beta, is I never cared for joy that women or anything brings me. I only focus on what makes a good man and strive for it. And religion+ the myths of your ancestors are the best place to start. Not lifting or money. Even though I lift and am financially well off from birth.
KeffirLime 5y ago
How so? Accomplishing difficult challenges that you desire and set for yourself bring you joy and happiness which in turn enriches the soul.
You will get spiritual relief from constructing a life that serves you and brings you content.
I'm not suggesting you be a useless slob, setting challenges and accomplishing them bring you great joy. I'm simply saying ascend the mountains you set for yourself, instead of pre prescribed tasks that you do out of duty.
It's fulfilling your desire to do whatever the hell you want, instead of what your told. Blindly doing what you're told instead of thinking and living for yourself is the very definition of slave mentality.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
“You will get spiritual relief from constructing a life that serves you and brings you content.”
No you will not get spiritual relief from this life my friend. You must seek it in metaphysical ideals. The ones you cannot reach and tire.
I do not mind being looking to my ancestors and being told what life is. You are your culture and lineage. You cannot and should not fight against your nature. You cannot figure out the milennia of collective work of your ancestors on your own. Its ridiculous to even try and pretend. I would rather be a glorious patriarch who lives for his ancestors and god rather than a free and happy individual boomer. I have enough money and fucked enough women to realize it is in fact not fullfilling to pursue these desires first. You will see when you get there. I am not enslaved to my ancestors, I AM THEM. I choose to be their and God’s Champion. You and most others-here and in the west are enslaved to money, women and material things. This is no great way to achieve any greatness.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Spirituality is not exclusive to the bible/Christianity, it can take many shape or form, be it mindfulness, Buddhism, Islam etc. There's thousands of religions and thousands of Gods out there and some without gods at all.
Your ancestors lived in a different time, different culture, different norms, different lifestyle. Using outdated ideals in a modern society will only leave you miserable.
Culture and nature are two very different things. Culture simply spawned to enhance our biological imperative. To get large groups of members of the same species to co operate.
You should use the foundations they have built, you should not stagnate. If you want to navigate your era effectively you have to evolve with the times.
You keep going back to this point yet it is not something I have endorsed. I'm simply saying do whatever you want and not what some century old book tells you to do.
Greatness by who's standards? You get your's fed to you by a book based on no evidence. I and others get it from ourselves.
entrep4 5y ago
If you're really worried about evolutionary success then just become a sperm donor
augustopinochet27 5y ago
What good is some distant offspring who does not carry your name?
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Fixed reply *
Sperm banking isn’t enough as I do not care for having 3000 bastard children raised by cucks or lesbians. I want sons that I can train, teach, pass on my legacy , culture, heritage and my family line. This is not entirely materialistic on a genetic level. But letting your offspring be reared by some foster parents or a single mom is as bad as cuckery. A boy needs his real father for the best outcome. Think kratos and boy, who doesn’t want that?
_Last_Man_Standing_ 5y ago
this made me lol...
but you are completely right...
MacNulty 5y ago
That is a life of desire too, just FYI. And you are setting yourself up for failure because your son will be an individual too and he might choose to tell you to go fuck yourself and refuse to learn from you or whatever. So I highly recommend you rethink your perspective on self-ownership and individuality because life might gravely disappoint you.
Actions have consequences but nobody "owes" anyone anything, that's just delegating responsibility for your choices to someone else.
Until you own YOUR choices, it means you don't fully understand why they do them, that includes starting a family. It needs to be your choice not your ancestors'.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
The difference is my “ desires” are aligned witha a higher purpose and is not pleasurable. I choose path according to the hardest desires I can conceive of. This is why I served in the military, took and still do care of my retarded brother and will have a family in this incredibly fucked world. What do you think is easier? Raising a son or fucking some 50 year old cougar or the hookers I hire at 60?
I do believe I am an individual to an extent. But I am not only that. There is a high order than me( not the government ). In my country if my son does that I can and will gladly disown him and kick him out. But if you are a good father, your sons will respect and never abondon you. I do understand its hard for this if you have a deterioration of society to a point where people can abondon their families with no social consequence but that is thankfully not the one I live in. However the appropriate response isnt to say “fuck it its too difficult to have a family” but to face the challenge with the knowledge of a high chance of failure.
MacNulty 5y ago
I admire your moral principles, but I believe there is a danger in going too far into one direction. Being too strict and purpose-driven erodes the soul just as much as excessive indulgence in material pleasures. You need both. Perhaps in todays society we have gone too far in one direction, and this extreme focus on conservative value is no doubt a counterbalancing act, but that is the macro level. On a micro level you can definitely loosen up a little sometimes. You are not Jesus, no need to deny yourself completely. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pleasure.
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Fair . But I am for deserved pleasure. The kind that is like a feast after a battle or a days work. My ancestors believed and I agree, in a dignified level of joy but always in the name of and gratitude to God. Thats what I believe as well. When I say I do not seek desires I do not mean I never eat some good meal, hunt, read a book, play an instrument. But these are rewards and also rewarding endeavors on their own right which can be spiritually enriching and bonding with your own brothers.
MacNulty 5y ago
From my experience this kind of attitude ends very badly when one needs a little kindness and forgiveness from oneself. Too much focus on God often makes people inflexible and perpetually guilty which just invites depression and lowers performance. It' just my perspective though, I have been raised rather liberally and had to discover virtue on my own, not the other way around. But what I learned is that it's better to be "sincere" than "serious".
augustopinochet27 5y ago
Bro I do not worship the new age ( original Christianity like the Byzantine Orthodox Church was better) weak cucked Christian God of eternal guilt and submission. You need to research Indo-Aryan or Altaic Paganism to understand my mindset. I am not guilty at all. My belief teaches me to be proud, strong and honourable. I was raised very conservatively but still in a blue pill egalitarian abrahamic world view. I rejected that long ago. I
MacNulty 5y ago
I am not talking about religion per se, just idealistic thinking in general. If you can still be spontaneous in your life then all the power to you, otherwise you are inviting disappointment and people around you will never be able to relax and they will be miserable. That's no way to live your life. And I know because at times I have been that overbearing person. Reality will never be perfect, so you've got to be able to relax about it. Just my .2c
KeffirLime 5y ago
Not necessarily. Promiscuity is a function of the contraceptive, which has enabled women to sample hordes of Alpha cock without the consequence of childbirth, not necessarily an evolutionary development.
The evolutionary development is more hypergamy at play than promiscuity. Their attraction is generally fairly singular, they go from one guy to the next. The issue is most guys or furthermore, most guys who are keen to settle down for relationships are fairly beta and hence a women loses interest fairly quickly.
Men on the other hand would rather horde women, they don't lose attraction for a women because they like another women, they just wanna fuck them both. This results in men often holding attraction for a longer period of time.
[deleted] 5y ago
It also leads to some one way monogamous relationships, right? If you don't give a shit what a plate does, that extends to them not fucking other dudes, or just trying on the occasional BB for size. I spent some time away from TRP and reading more mainstream stuff....this is a major, major sticking point, this idea that if he can do it, she can do it. Perhaps she doesn't want to. Perhaps getting properly railed once a week by a player is not only better than nothing, but better than the race. I mean, this is more for post wall, where have all the good men gone types, but hey, not all of us are in our 20's. Their body. Their choice.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Essentially if we were to tap into only our nature and push culture aside, yeah, one way relationships technically are more representative.
A mans attraction is multiple, while a females is singular, meaning if she bags a high value man, she'll be far more content with monogamy than gen he is. He'll have to constantly resist his sexual urges whereas she'll only have to resist them when encountering a man of higher value than her current.
Male and female attraction works differently, holding them to the same standard only leads to unbalanced results.
[deleted] 5y ago
I was talking open on his side, closed on her side. Once you get past the wall and the protestations of some of the kids around here.....I dunno, I struggle over shooting for the stars vs. banging women easy to keep in rotation.
OutsideTheCage3 5y ago
I like to take her to sex clubs and see how she handles it.
If she can keep up, great, then I can keep seeing other women.
If she can't, it wasn't meant to be.
warlordchad 5y ago
Dude, to be honest I have no idea how to get into that scene—but if I could that sounds like the ideal gambit.
OutsideTheCage3 5y ago
Read the free book, in the header and sidebar.
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[deleted] 5y ago
I see no reason to break up with a cooperative woman. Let them do it. It's too much work to get new snatch to give them up unless you have to. If they are a pain in the ass, that's totally different. That said, Frame Frame Frame. They won't keep coming back for nothing.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
This book is straight up retarded. It makes the "monogamy is stupid argument," but the authors just replace monogamy with the even dumber idea that humans are meant to be completely promiscuous like chimps or bonobos. It does not at all acknowledge any of the red pill ideas that we know are true like women's dual mating strategy or hypergamy. Humanity is just a giant fuck fest. Men passed women around and there's no jealousy or conflict or choosiness. Lol what a joke.
Trenned_out 5y ago
Yep, buy into that book's brain washing and you end up like Aubrey Marcus. Constantly rationalizing all the emotional pain of your fiance railing other dudes and going on vacation with a boyfriend as you just "letting go of your ego" and being so #woke bro. No surprise he cites that book as the genesis of his non-monogamy journey. The book is blue pill AF.
warlordchad 5y ago
Yeah I didn’t agree with the conclusions of the authors, because they’re obviously operating from a blue-pill/feminist perspective. However, the scientific studies they cite show that humans evolved as a polygamous species and that women are highly sexual by their nature.
TL;DR—they still want to fuck alphas, but more than that they’re just driven to fuck period. That’s why sometimes being the last dick standing works as a sexual strategy.
[deleted] 5y ago
At 46, I have a normal BMI, what with all the running and lifting. I recently stopped drinking, for many good reasons, with better boners being near the top of the list. I'm not the last dick standing, but I might eventually be.
Fuckovski 5y ago
Would you say your boners are still good without viagra?
[deleted] 5y ago
Never needed viagra. Still get boners. Keep your BMI low into your mid 40's and you, too, can experience this wonder.
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memphisjohn 5y ago
keep fit (aerobically) and you can still pound nails into your 50's - that's what I'm doing
[deleted] 5y ago
What's your fav hunting ground?
DancesWithPugs 5y ago
In my opinion if you feel the need to lie you have no true frame
warlordchad 5y ago
Agree 100%. That doesn’t mean you always tell the full unadulterated truth, but outright lying should be unnecessary if you’re holding frame.
Robster25 5y ago
You guys are overthinking. Just be honest with her. "I like what we have and I don't want a relationship right now/I don't think we can have a good relationship". If you fucked her good she will stay, because she can't get that sex elsewhere and if she wants to leave, that's fine, there is more than one girl on the planet.
vfb14 5y ago
When they bring the talk, I personally tell them I'm not looking to get in a relationship. Most of them are okay with my decision initially. If they don't have a better option than you,they will stick with you for as long as you don't cohabitate with them, hold frame, keep the dread high at all times and pass important shit/comfort tests. Depending on the phase of life a certain girl finds herself in, you can make an estimation on how long you can spin her.
DouglasPR 5y ago
Be vague, don try to be logic and rationalize, doesnt work with them. They are attracted by silent and misterious, and above all, they want to be led and believe they will lock you down, even if they already know you wont cave. Dont say no, but never say yes, get silent, she will try other tactics and this will buy you time before the plate ends. If the sex is good and there is no other alpha on her sights she will keep going for a while even after it gets clear you wont commit.
anymouse22334455 5y ago
TL;DR, who cares if a plate breaks? NEXT. Focus on abundance not one-itis lite.
mcsween411 5y ago
Had a similar experience last semester in college. Had a plate that wanted a LTR because she realized I’m fucking other girls. Had to sit her down and told her I’m leaving in 6 months and an LTR is not an option, because I’m a senior. I still continue to fuck her whenever I want, to the point my boys are literally confused how stupid this girl is. The I’m going to be gone in (insert time) and I can’t invest in an LTR seems to work very well. The easiest plate I’ve gotten.
saveTheFirstWorld 5y ago
Cringe People on this sub have 0 idea of what morality even is. Surprise surprise