Intro : I followed the PUA community almost a decade ago back in high school and I'd follow their advice which was centered around *CHASING women* i.e show "intent" / interest off the bat (like in many RSD videos), give compliments here and there, kissing at the club, pushing through rejections etc. I found that over time I actually wasn't get any results despite going out consistently for years. For the longest time I thought it was normal and my game just needed "work", when in reality the problem was that I gave women too much certainty and my interest actually turned them off. It was only after I recently discovered the Red Pill, Alpha male strategies on youtube and studying some of my natural buddies who were pulling girls like crazy did I start to change my behaviors and realized that LESS INTEREST IS BETTER.
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Observations: i noticed that whenever there was a girl that I recently started hooking up with that I liked I would eventually fuck it up by showing interest. i.e right after I asked a girl to spend the night she'd make some excuse as to why she couldn't and then slowly she started losing interest/ didn't hit me back up as much. Or if I said "I really like how you're X" (a genuine compliment) or was down to cuddle she'd not put out. Conversely, when I had girls in my rotation I didn't like at all, I'd pay them NO compliments, heavy tease them, kick them out after sex and take ages to respond to their text they would chase even harder. When you show interest and are available, you've put yourself in a position where women CAN'T and won't chase you. Looking back on my natural buddies WHO SLAYED WITH WOMEN who ranged from tattooed gauged skater, to asshole bartender to wallstreet preppy guy, they all had an air of indifference to them. Even me being their friend, they weren't always available to hang ( I had to make plans with them weeks in advance), never gave me any compliments, I didn't actually know if they even liked me as a friend back (yet ironically I chased them as much as girls did). I always saw female friends of mine talk among each other saying things like "omg I like natural buddy, I'm just not sure whether he likes me back..." and they would constantly chase. Meanwhile i was the pick up guy, even though I was always the guy with women with me and was preselected I never got anywhere close to the amount of ass my indifferent natural buddies WHO WERE LONERS got.
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Application: I started testing this out where I wouldn't give a girl any compliments, respond or initiate texts much later than I normally would (15 mins -> 5 hours), give 0 VALIDATION to girls. Just like my previous post on "how being an asshole got me laid" I noticed girls started CHASING ME HARD. On tinder for example, girls would go out of their way to find me on social media and add me first (when I would have normally killed the attraction by texting back and forth). I went to few parties recently and the PUA guy in me wanted to talk to every girl there. But I hung back and only talked to girls when they said HI TO ME FIRST. Sure at first nothing happened but towards the end of the night girls approached me, asked for my instagram (as opposed to the other way around) because I wasn't showing any interest so that put them in a place of chasing. In addition, I started kicking every girl out once I smashed on a first date and they started to reach out first within few days to a week .
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TLDR: being less available and showing less interest gets girls
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ChrimsonChin988 5y ago
You either read the wrong PUA advice or misinterpreted everything lol. No pick-up artist says to only pull and pull and pull. Most of them say you must DHV.
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Also, the problem is not showing 'interest' showing interest is completely fine actually. The problem is the neediness that often goes attached to it. The desperation. Cool, High SMV guys can show interest and girls will love it because it comes from a mindset/frame of abundance. The opposite is usually true for Low SMV guys, where interest comes from a scarcity mindset and is quickly interpreted as needy.
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Idk why you got 91% upvote, pretty shit post tbh, your TLDR is half correct (but not for the reasons you think it is) because yes, you should be available less (because you actually have an interesting life and are busy, not just pretending to be) and showing less interest is not standing in a fucking corner somewhere waiting for a chick to make a move (like you seem to think?). Showing interest is actually good as long as it comes from abundance.
xesup2 5y ago
You don't ask a girl to spend the night.
You never force her to decide to sleep with you. Women hate to take responsibility for sex. You have to seduce them. Not to convince them.
Why compliments fail? Because you are trying to gain her approval. You are trying to "convince her" of liking you.
Trying to convince her is the wrong procedure, because attraction is not a choice.
Attraction is not a choice, so asking her, to choice you, is pointless. Women get the message that you don’t get it.
lexileone 5y ago
Thanks i'm glad that i found this post today, recently i've found a channel RSDTyler where this guy name tyler attracts chicks like magnet and after watching this triggered my insecurities and i'm started believing him, but now i feel like those guys are just bunch of cucks selling us some stupid shit while they make huge amount of money
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source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x27wabHGCac&t=2872s
greenwaffulz 5y ago
I've seen RSDTyler talk to girls in person as well as attended few of his (free) seminars and bought one his programs a while back. The thing is, he DOES get girls and his methods WORK, but he admits that the crazy infield videos you see on youtube were from approaches later in the night after he's approached 10-20 girls (and been rejected by most of them). The direct high interest style he does can work BUT it is a numbers game and you often have to spend hours every week doing it.
javiercer20 5y ago
Good post....
Women will get wet for you when you treat them like objects. Yeah... you’ll be successful by not showing interest, I don’t know who brought the idea that men should be all fucking talkative and always trying to bring the attention around them, introducing themselves to everyone at the place... that’s more like women to me.
Men are strong, relaxed, firm and dominant, women know that ( and other men too )and that’s why they will surround you eventually, they know who’s in charge. Then you see them as your entertainment, make fun of them, treat them like silly slutty toys, touch them, tell them what to do, being indifferent to whatever they say or feel and voila, you have a dripping wet pussy begging for your dick.
Treat them like objects,that’s why you’re a man. They’re here to entertain you and they know it.
Auvergnat 5y ago
I really must have jumped off the PUA train before the wreck then because never in the Mystery Method, or De Angelo's Double Your Dating, have I ever seen it being advised to give compliments to girls, or anything else that reveal your investment. You'd approach, open and give a false time constraint. You'd open a set and talk to everyone to befriend them except the target. When the target would try to get your attention, you'd neg her. You'd pass shit tests by being cocky and funny. Then after DHV for a while, you would push and pull.
If more recent PUA such as RSD advised to pull and pull and pull and pull, then they really did fall far from the wisdom of their forefathers.
EDIT: wait I just re-read and see you were into PUA a decade ago? That's even before I got into it. Dude I really think that either you didn't get it at all, or you followed bad ones. The foundational Mystery Method was quite clearly stating that it's all about "demonstrating value while conveying disinterest".
LOL about the technique of being a plant at a party and hoping that girls are going to do the first step! Do you also wait for them to initiate a kiss? Do you wait for them to take the decision to bounce? Do you wait for them to ask if you'd like to have sex?
All of Game is walking that fine line where you take the lead in the flirting, without showing neediness. You spent many years not understanding the second part, and now you switched completely to not understanding the first part. Your Game sucks.
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wanderer779 5y ago
Bottom line is whether your method is working or not. If it works then who cares what some dude on the internet says.
inittowinit777 5y ago
Thank you for a very insightful comment.
Dunc0ne 5y ago
Well put. I can see why you are an "Endorsed Contributor".
bringer_of_glory 5y ago
My observation is, that this depands on the situation. At a party or a social gathering it can work.
If you seem interesting and confident enough and socialice with people, woman will start to talk to you. They will want your attention and beeing related to you. So they might approach and you can start from here. But why wait till they approach? If you want to meet woman you can also start the conversation.
If you do daygame or are at a bar/club, you should approach, because most woman for sure will not.
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In both ways I communicate in an implicit way: I would fuck you, but I dont need to because getting sex is easy and
I see your beauty, but every second girl here is beautiful so its nothing special and I don't really know if I like you that much.
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From here its push/pull and what ever feels right and fitts the situation. But I am no expert by any means, still learning.
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ToddV explains the "Showing interest without neediness" thing quite nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQGBDNdlU3I
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv-y7o6E3kg
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Battagliare 5y ago
This is like the essence of PUA. Very nice comment.
Fulp_Piction 5y ago
Bingo - opener, disinterest, dhv, hook.
ConnorGracie 5y ago
PUA has been infested with direct approach vs indirect approach people.
javiercer20 5y ago
Agreed.
Women are here to serve us. They go wet for a guy who will grab them and treat them like sexual toys, tease them, touch them, make fun of them and tell them what to do. That’s the only kind of interest they want from a man. Anything else is bullshit and should be avoided at all cost.
Zech4riah 5y ago
Oh, you already said it. I could have saved my time by not responding to this post. It's funny how a post which has many misunderstandings, faults and is most probably written by an inexperienced guy, gets upvotes close to 200.
Simpman4 5y ago
Good stuff man, is there anything in this sub that has good material like this? To be frank i haven’t seen it in a while and I’ve been a sub for like 3 years now
Auvergnat 5y ago
What I described is basically the original PUA material of the Mystery Method. It really is worth the read, autistically dissecting what to do and when, but most importantly why it works based on analysing women's behaviour. You can really see why it paved the way for the Red Pill. Now it's old stuff and really is for nerds so I wouldn't advise actually following that method. Rather, for a more mature (read TRP-aware) approach to game, read Roosh's books and the Chateau Heartiste blog: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-42283.html
KeffirLime 5y ago
"Intent" or "interest" in PUA terms is also not meant the way OP has expressed it.
It's not show her how amazing you think she is and how much you want her, it's meant to show her you're not there to orbit her and buy her drinks all night.
It's show enough so that she's aware of your intentions, which allows you to gauge her response and whether she's actually interested or not.
Depending on her response you either continue to game or realize whats going on and move on to other women so you don't waste your time.
Auvergnat 5y ago
In the old PUA stuff, interest is a dynamic thing. The amount you receive and the amount you show keeps changing. If you show too much interest for too long, she'll lose attraction. If you show not enough for too long, she won't be entertained and get bored. Mystery Method, although autistic as fuck, really clearly showed why it's a "game". You show no interest in her at first, and instead DHV until you get some interest from her, then you reward her with a bit of interest of yours. And from there onwards you bait her to show some interest and reward her with your interest. If she shows no interest, you show none. It was basically emulating the "frame control" of a naturally high value guy with abundance.
Redsqa 5y ago
You know, one can often read that women are good at empathizing and men are good at systemizing. And when I read stuff like this, I think how it hilariously proves it. Take a few men, in that case, men unsuccessful with the other sex, most likely because they've always had a harder time in social situations and lack social intuition. Leave them long enough and they WILL dissect, analyze patterns, runs tests, then find a system and a plan for anything, even getting girls. This is crypto-autism at its finest, and it has been powering humanity since the beginning of ages.
Auvergnat 5y ago
I agree and this is exactly why I love Neil Strauss's book "The Game" and I think its literary quality is underrated. He quite clearly wrote it with that angle: to show that a bunch of complete nerds decided to get together to dissect and analyse seduction just as they would have done for a computers or Dungeons & Dragons... and got laid beyond anyone's wildest dream... but they're still complete nerds inside.
The opening with Mystery getting completely wrecked, dramatic, and suicidal after his oneitis left him and telling the cute nurse at the hospital that had she met him in another circumstance, he would have picked her up on the spot, was meant as the perfect anecdote to convey that improbable combination: the greatest seducer in the world is still a pathetic loser inside. It was a brilliant introduction of the theme for the book.
awalt_cupcake 5y ago
In his defense I have an older relative who approached game in OP's way. Whenever I started talking to him about some daygame concepts on here he was taken back. He was dead set on "chasing them first" before letting them chase you. In my BP days this is exactly what I did but my numbers paled to his of course. Different styles of game for different people.
MilkMoney111 5y ago
That's one of the big takeaways here. Don't treat what works for one guy as gospel. The main idea is to go out and just do, experiment around, try different things, find out what works best for you
theRJMurray 5y ago
The biggest take away is that standing at the back of the room is considered game nowadays.
awalt_cupcake 5y ago
Hoodie- UP
Instagram- CLOUT
Tattoos- COVERED
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GAME CERTIFIED PLAYA
omega_dawg93 5y ago
wait... the approach OP talks about does work; i use it about 80% of the time.
at parties and other social events, i introduce myself to everyone but basically ignore the ladies, esp. the attractive ones. i just kinda wave, say, "what's up," and continue moving thru the crowd.
then, I chill with the fellas and observe... waiting on choosing signals as the night goes on. fewer signals mean i get more assertive... but i hardly ever have to do that.
the difference: i have a rotation of 4 ladies and i give zero indication that I'm thirsty in any way. iow, all the ladies there are treated as if I've already fucked them. and if they talk to me or if i just start up a mild conversation, they have zero pussy power.
the image: "he's conceited... he's arrogant... he must have a woman."
the result: i become the challenge as most guys come off as "try-hards." they use their introduction to try and start a conversation AT THAT TIME. WRONG! i NEVER do that. "hi... " then, shake her hand only if she extends it... keep moving. most guys get locked in right there at the intro... staring & drooling. you just gave her your validation for the night.
when you "intro/ignore" the ladies start competing for attention and validation upfront; i acknowledge their existence but it doesn't matter to me = immediate indifference.
one girl even said to me, "i had to see what you were about... bc i KNOW i look good... and you were the only guy that didn't try to talk my ears off or ask for my number."
my reply: "i still haven't asked for it."
you guys have no idea of how disinterest creates the challenge that women must have. no woman wants a man that's not worth competing for against other women.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Yeah I’ve found this to work excellently too. Show zero thirst. Give away zero power. A quick cordial hello and then aloof.
Double points if she’s with a guy/guys— you can ask a few further questions to the guys and establish acquaintance w them, while ignoring the girl standing right there, not asking much or anything about her. Almost like she’s a second class citizen or a child there with her parent. Although don’t do this too overtly or her feminist indignence will kick in and you may be labeled negatively in her mind.
This has come more and more naturally and worked better and better from chauvinist convictions. That’s the core. The more I’ve learned about women and interacted w them, the more I see the world in genuinely chauvinist terms. And it’s so fucking accurate. And my behavior flows naturally from this.
Even tho the entire life of these thots revolves around pedestalizing herself, deep down they are disgusted by being pedestalized by men cuz they know they are just a girl and aren’t the shit. Deep down they are wondering where all the REAL men are who will treat her like the inferior half of the dimorphic species that she is.
It’s about “phallic gravity”. An alpha is a leader, meaning power and followers orbit him. He has social gravity. This is fundamentally phallic. That’s why beta orbiters are enacting an inverted version of our social nature. Women should not be orbited. Men of true competence, ability, character, leadership, and all around strength should be orbited. Historically this has always been naturally emergent. It still mostly is but it’s been breaking down due to the insulation from Nature and her corrective measures that our wealth, ease, and urban dwelling have created.
Honestly most of this retarded feminism, leftism, and soy cuck beta behavior is rooted in those conditions. We’ve created a society which acts like a hot house for the growth of all sorts of strange and exotic beliefs, behaviors, and person types which would not otherwise grow in the wild.
But yeah women are eternal teenagers so show them aloofness, not thirst. Fuck their diva complexes.
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greenlittleman 5y ago
The key to game and to women is to be able to demonstrate your non-neediness and indifference actively. If you can't give a girl a chance to be with you, can't give her opportunity to chase you when you want, then you will get results only in certain circumstances.
omega_dawg93 5y ago
i agree... "intro & ignore."
i wait for choosing signals almost all the time.
current rotation + job = i don't have time to chase another woman. none. she needs to chase me... and indifference amongst a sea of thirsty guys usually gets them going.
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omega_dawg93 5y ago
at social events, i refer to it as "intro/ignore."
for choosing signals, i know i miss a lot of them, but i learned from watching women choose my friends... when my friends were totally unaware.
mouth and hand/arm movement give most ladies away... but the usual signs come out thru their leg/hip movements: crossing their legs while standing or sitting, shifting their weight towards you, one hand on one hip etc. both hands on both hips is typically the female "battle" position, unless she's naked. lol.
and definitely looking down and away when you're looking at her. to me, that is the #1 sign that she thinks you're alpha... bc that is exactly what happens in nature (without a fight, or after a fight).
empatheticapathetic 5y ago
I do this and just come off as some anti social retard. You’re ignoring the value of your looks if you are getting interest by completely ignoring them.
greenlittleman 5y ago
Being too shy to talk with girls isn't same as freely expressing yourself without care about them.
omega_dawg93 5y ago
not if you do it right.
looks only take you so far with women... you have to be confident & masculine more than you need to be a pretty boy.
what will your looks do when confronted on the street and you back down like a bitch? she's gonna dry-up like the desert when she's crying and you're crying too.
see that cool, calm guy over there chilling, enjoying himself, and having fun? he's being social but not drooling over every cute girl that says, "hi."
introduce yourself and acknowledge the presence of women... but don't make your existence at the event all about those women. you'll come across as a "try-hard," and that's a big turnoff to women... it stinks of desperation.
there's a way to stand-in with the crowd while standing-out amongst the crowd... it's called your, "masculine frame." you are responsible for setting that properly.
empatheticapathetic 5y ago
I don’t disagree with anything here but I’m just saying perhaps you pass a looks threshold that allows women to be more interested in your disinterest. Perhaps it’s not the case. I show no interest in women because as any redpiller, I just don’t care, I’d rather have fun with my friends. If they wanna have a fun interaction then that’s great but they usually just don’t give a shit and find someone else. Maybe it’s a case of everyone else at the party always being beta in comparison? I’m not sure.
TwentyEighteen 5y ago
Yup, this tactic only works if you’re considerably more attractive or popular than everyone else. If an average guy didn’t talk to any girls he’d be seen as shy. And there’s no way in hell girls would go introduce themselves to him. this guy is letting his SMV do the work and thinks it’s his game lol
greenwaffulz 5y ago
Both me and the natural buddy I learned being super aloof from are 5'7 with above average looks but nothing that turns heads. I think what also helps is HAVING A LOOK. My natural buddy definitely had a skater look (gauges, full sleeve tattoo, baggier clothes ,backwards hat). It made him stand out compared to guys who wore H and M clothes. I did a similar thing where I cut off the sleeves on my collared shirt to show off full sleeve tattoos (kinda likethis ) . It looks completely douchey but when I went to your average top 40s club or house party girls were intrigued because I stood out from everyone else and had a certain VIBE.
KillaJewels 5y ago
Agree with this guy. Hanging back and waiting for girls to say hi first is the ultimate chode behavior at the party. Most guys are doing that. It says you're too much of a pussy to put yourself out there to make the first move; hence, OP is afraid to lead and rationalizing it by using a false equivalence.
Nubenebbiosa 5y ago
So what the fuck is it? Say hi which clearly shows interest, or you wouldn’t be fucking talking to a stranger, or show “disinterest” by somehow finding ways for her to talk to you?
PopePalpatineTheWise 5y ago
You're not going to show "disinterest", you're clearly interested in her as you say. You only show that you aren't a needy fuck and/or completely sold in on her yet.
A good metaphor would be: "You're a buyer checking out the cars, not a car salesman going for a hard sell."
The Book of Pook actually expounds on this in detail, and the young man who was with the Pook asked the exact same question you did.
greenlittleman 5y ago
Saying hi doesn't show any sexual interest. Believe it or not, but girls can't be sure what you like them unless you are being way too obvious like giving compliments, being needy or directly telling her "I LIKE YOU". One of my jobs was related to giving "love advice" to women and most common thing they ask is "this guy flirted with me and was fun, but I'm not sure if he likes me". If a guy approached hot girl it could be obvious to you what he is interested in her, but she wouldn't be so sure because she don't know if he consider her hot enough for him and on same level as him, she don't know how many other girls he have and how hot they are. She never would be 100% sure unless he gives her definitive proof. And if he just tease her, command her and being a jerk then she wouldn't even think what he likes her, as long as his non-verbals not too needy.
swampbastard69 5y ago
Ask a hot girl if she gets hit on at bars and one of their biggest complaints is they rarely get hit on. Most guys are pussies especially with the 10's because they dont feel entitled. I would rather be a chode hitting on every girl in a clumsy way with zero game than 'sitting back'. You have to put yourself in the game before you can play the game.
bsutansalt 5y ago
I don't know where this comes from, but it's wrong. Those women get hit on ALL the time, but it largely doesn't even register. Only hot guys or very awkward dudes who make a (good or bad) impression and stand out actually make into their long-term memory because they deviated form their warped baseline.
There was a what's it like to be a hawt girl? thread posted years back on Reddit that an older woman posted in about how she didn't realize when she was younger that people don't act that way around other people, only super hot women.
swampbastard69 5y ago
That quote from the old maid is true....of course all hot girls get lots of attention from men. I should have been more specific - 7.5's and 8's get hit on constantly....ask a 10 how much they get hit on, they complain all the time that guys are too big of pussies to hit on them. This is of course a generalization but it is true, I have heard it over and over. I was recently at a club in Buenos Aires filled with hot women, there was one table with 4 tens at it alone - dancing. I kept glancing over the entire night and I didnt see one guy approach, and Argentinian guys hit on everything. I was even regrettably too big of a fag to approach 4 tens.
CPCPub 5y ago
I don't think its true, it's just females perception of it. One of my roommates is a 9. I was chatting with her and she complained about how when she goes out, no guys ever hit on her (even though we live with her boyfriend).
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Anyway, I countered this by explaining that I see guys hit on her all the time at bars. (She gets approached constantly)
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Her reply "I guess I just don't remember those guys because they aren't hot."
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bsutansalt 5y ago
My point is that they are getting hit on, but they're so used to that kind of treatment they don't see it for what it is.
odaklanan_insan 5y ago
So, you mean it is better to be more elobarate when flirting with them?
hiddenpersona 5y ago
I also believe it’s all about push and pull ratio. With no interest yes it could work to get them interested but a better way is called “fishing” where you basically put a bait out where you push and show a little interest, and when they are hooked you start pulling. So 1 push 2 pull. Show interest, then back off, this will get their head spinning they will find themselves gravitate towards you. The moment they recognize they are giving too much interest or being pulled to you most girls back off. This is the key, you gotta read them and the moment you feel a disturbance in force you push a little bit, get them hooked then start pulling them back again
party_dragon 5y ago
Yeah it's an old PUA concept of "two steps forward 1 step back". Also how you "seduce" a cat (i.e. keep her attention). (Also works amazing for sex; had a girl ask me if she can suck my dick because of this tactic (I was a newbie so I didn't really know anything else) and then want sex the same night after first date.)
greenwaffulz 5y ago
Yeah I agree with you there, the pullback is a great move for building crazy investment. But you obviously need to pull back from having *something* rather than nothing so that's where a *little* interest can work (i.e finding commonalities, agreements)
Auvergnat 5y ago
Commonalities? Agreements? For fuck's sake man that is really bad advice you've learned.
The only thing that makes a woman attracted to you is that you are high value, and particularly higher value than her. You demonstrate your high value (DHV) by being interesting, funny, cocky, mysterious, sociable, etc., and you demonstrate you're higher value than her (Neg) with teases, backhanded compliments, asshole flirting, etc. The later pullbacks are just more demonstrations that you're higher value than her.
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greenlittleman 5y ago
Regular dudes get pussy from their social circle and by committing to girls. Guys who get laid a lot have right mindsets and actions naturally, like OP's buddies.
greenwaffulz 5y ago
Actually I got the pullback from my natural buddies (who've never heard of puas/redpill etc.). They would build friendships/or get girls into them and then would become scarce by not answering their phones for a few days or not being as available to hang out causing the other person to chase. They just did it naturally because they were busy and focused on other things.
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henryblazer 5y ago
Can i DM you? I need some serious advice here. You rock
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Zech4riah 5y ago
Don't. He has no clue what he is talking about. Read a sidebar or ask from any of the ECs.
wobbleelbbow 5y ago
Rookie got laid. Starts to teach everybody how to handle women.
greenwaffulz 5y ago
I guess you forgot to read the part where I said I've been going out for close to a decade.
yomo86 5y ago
Don't try to come up with some personal science about abundance mentality. AM starts with improving yourself ie having more interest in yourself than in women.
Make your interest in a particular women known by taking risks like aproaching, invite her to your place, touching but as you have AM if no adequate reaction on her side occurs drop the woman. Let her feel that she is replaceable and will be replaced.
This is what drives them nuts. A high-SMV guy in demand, whatever demand here is, who can play the game, and was willing to play, drops her because something was more importent than that particular woman. In short exploit her solipsism by being focused on yourself.
Pick-Up uses pseudo-lingo to cover-up shortcomings. "It isnt that your SMV was too low or you came off as a beta, no, you just read those IOIs wrong and used one of those Mystery-lines wrong and she is a bitch anyway". Believe me when your SMV is high enough and you got own mission going most women will hamster shitty game or straight up abuse away.
johker 5y ago
This guy gets it. Tired of all this PUA nerd lingos. Shit ain’t rocket science, naturally focus on your mission and yourself and women will naturally flock to you. Obviously you need to take your shot but if you got your shit together, you can say whatever the fuck you want and they will eat it up.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Ha!
“Yeah so I arrived to the set and opened five HB7’s. I DHV’d and negged and closed 2 numbers”.
These fuckin dweebs.
party_dragon 5y ago
Do you even understand PUA?!
She can't see your mission or your SMV or how awesome you are (directly), she only sees your behaviour that lets her assume / deduce your high SMV and whatever (indirectly). PUA is based on the idea that the high-SMV-signaling behaviours can be mimicked (i.e. renting a Ferrari vs buying it, though this is a bad example because money doesn't actually matter for sexual attraction), and then the "nerds" backwards engineered exactly what those behaviours are and how to emulate them (and yes, "inner game" is part of that, but it doesn't need to be).
yomo86 5y ago
See and thats my whole point. You are right. Using PUA in a specific setting to achieve a lay is totally fine. It used to be along the lines of 'is it better to fuck at my place or hers'. Now it is about over-analysing issues that are not really issues covering their shortcomings by using pseudo-scientific lingo.
But why not invest your precious time in being the guy who can afford a Ferrari but has no need to instead of the guy who shows off but will be a debt slave when he totals the rental.
KillaJewels 5y ago
As someone who acted "too cool" in the past - as in, not chasing at all and putting in minimal effort - I can say that strategy does not work. The girl will think you have no interest (that she has no chance) and move on. Even worse, when I'd pick up on the girl mimicking my behavior and responding in kind, I began to show a little more (which is also very wrong, because now that would be rewarding her behavior and acting out of neediness).
What I've learned since I became genuinely busy in life is this: there's a balance. Girls like to feel special because it's like a little nugget you're giving them that gives them hope that you can be beta-ized. As much as men have this innate drive to conquer women, so do women with men. Except women do it as a defense-mechanism. They do it to test their man and secretly hope that he doesn't fall to it. She wants the lover to be ABLE to be a provider but wants him to be consistently more of a lover than a provider.
Remember not to be too rigid. Deliberately humble yourself before them to make them feel special, but always make sure they remember who holds the leash in the relationship dynamic.
blurkiller 5y ago
I ditto most of the comments i see, you want to get girls? Display high value > Social Calibration > Escalation.
It is that easy.
boy_named_su 5y ago
This is pure garbage. TRP should be endorsed contributors only
papunigga031 5y ago
Just ask yourself “if I had another girl just as hot who would be down to fuck right now, would I be doing this?” This will usually give you what you need to do
Zech4riah 5y ago
Pendulum swings back and forth. You have tried two different strategies. When you find the balance in showing intent and being indifferent, you will get the most results.
And please stop with that James Bond shit. "Please, just stand in the corner, play it cool and wait until girls approach you". And if you were talking about a private house party, it's another thing than clubs.
Also, how can you keep fucking up many sets in a row where girls open you and all you are left with is one instagram close which basically means nothing. You can do cold approach in a club and instagram close 99% of the girls which agree to talk with you longer than 30secs.
You have misunderstood intent. Showing intent works and it doesn't require compliments. Also compliments early in interaction requires advanced level of game and strong frame.
I'm surprised that you have had rotation going on. Many parts of your text tell me you might be inexperienced and wrote this post based on 2-3 successes.
110_percent_THC 5y ago
Can you shed some light on "kicking them out"? I'm curious how that goes exactly. Can you give examples of what you might say? I'm assuming you tell (or ask?) them to leave, but don't just say "Get the hell out."
greenwaffulz 5y ago
"hey I gotta get up for work tomorrow, but let's hang next week" they get the hint. Or I *playfully* say "I'm kickin' you out, I gotta go to bed"
GoldenGloria 5y ago
The best way to get women is to tease them without showing too much interest.
gabeangelo 5y ago
Yeah, sure, it works. But that's the easiest part that's been told ad nauseam. But the really challenging and hardest part will always be: how can you make her interested in you in the 1st place? Because the whole "ignore her" only works when she's already (at least a bit) into you.
Loze1 5y ago
Can't believe I'm reading this. Reading Models by Mark Manson and he talked about the same thing. Women can sense neediness. Enjoying the read thus far because his focus is on becoming a high value male. I've got a depressing life, it's high time I put the work in to become high value and thank myself later for it.
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Yes, it's pathetic how self-destructive the culture made them. They literally chase after guys who "signal" alpha, even if the guys aren't that alpha. There really isn't that much difference between mid to high beta and alpha, except in behaviors. I see so many guys who look alpha, who make a lot of money, who lift, who have all these talents, but their learned beta behavior repels women like lanolin repels water. Meanwhile, the beta looking guys who study the natural alphas, then adopt alpha behavior, or who were otherwise schooled by an alpha, like a father or uncle, will be slaying left and right.
It's been said on here before, but I'll say it again. They really don't have such good powers of discernment. They rely on things like confidence, clothes, their friends opinions, social status, etc. All these things can be faked pretty easily. You literally have to tell them who you are with these signals.... without being too blatant so they don't FEEL like whores.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
This is why patriarchy is necessary to civilization. Men discern much better between themselves who is legit and who’s not. And so in an all male hierarchy (or mannerbund, the foundation of civ), the right males get promoted up the ranks. And that patriarchy-approved status makes women wet.
Therefore you can establish a system of values that diverges adaptively from the system of values that worked in our caveman tribal past. The female hindbrain falls for those rudimentary values. And some are certainly still important. But to build a society and enhance group fitness you need to enhance group cooperation and promote other traits and values which may be highly valuable in a societal context but which may have been less so in our ancestral past.
Women have pretty basic wiring and fall for the evolved traits. But when a patriarchy bestows status on a different type of guy, he can still get laid and be treated w respect by women.
Think of these idiot thots who fuck thugs who will never be good long term options. Yes they can enact BB/AF, but many women are damaged because they are hoodwinked by their biology into falling for a loser thug.
I noticed all this from my mormon upbringing. Left the religion cuz it’s make believe but there’s a lot of insights in there. They have a formal patriarchy. And you get some pretty milquetoast square mormon guy types with these bangin hot virgin wives. And it’s because if they live the religion fully and go on a mission, they get a big fat stamp of approval from the established patriarchy.
This essentially raises the value and status of beta provider family man types, and lowers the value, basically erases the status of irresponsible and player/thug types. Hence how a pro civilization, group fitness enhancing, healthy social fabric enhancing set of values is established and maintained, with the full buy-in of the females, even tho it diverges from the brutish value system of our ancestral past which their hindbrains usually respond to. But their hindbrains still respond to status, even if it’s modulated by the patriarchy to fit new values which are more appropriate to a complex and civilized world.
Apologies for redundancy.
AstuteBlackMan 5y ago
Not sure I understand fully the reference between you and your friends. Even when you explained failing with women by giving them compliments all the time I'd never really do that with my friends. My friends and I roast each other more than we congratulate each other.
Regardless excellent post.
stedi-akk 5y ago
I think, it may work out only if you are good looking. Otherwise, it is a false key.
Liburnian 5y ago
" TLDR: being less available and showing less interest gets girls"
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No it doesn't. They just turn elsewhere.
strikethrough123 5y ago
Remember folks, the girl needs to be attracted to you first. She had to be interested first. Don’t think going into a bar and talking to nobody because of “don’t show interest” will get you laid.
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TheLeftIsNotLiberal 5y ago
"Women want what they can't have."
This applies to everything.
jonpe87 5y ago
There is only one thing that works with woman..., ... they don't like man, they like to compete.
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UnleashYourLife 5y ago
Treat a whore like a princess and treat a princess like a whore.
You need to know your target. A 23year old hottie that has seen more dick than an urologist, will/might fall for classic push/pull tactic, or in this case full on ignore bait. But a hot - yet fading in looks departementet, woman over 35, will end falling easier for attention crap people tend to advice against. My point here is that it is of benefit to be a bit more flexible when it comes to worldview on women and how to pick them up.
Learn instead to recognize situations and personalities. That is one of the - if not THE, greatest strenghts you can achieve when it comes to women and sex.
frooschnate 5y ago
This is what you notice when you start to understand the theory and shit you read here. It’s not about following rules and acting exactly “like you’re supposed to”.
I see it more as taking the tool that is our pill and applying it to fit your circumstances and options the best. You can be a huge asshole to some girls, you can be pretty relaxed and even sweet at times with others; some are complete hoes in bed and open to anything, others you have to guide em in and tap into their inner sexuality. Shit like that.
Not every girl is the same, and while there are underlying truths to all of it; AWALT, being less invested than her, AF/BB or whatever other principle we have, you need to practice and master the nuances. Not all of us are the same either, and that applies in the exact same way.
furcryingoutloud 5y ago
I just want to add.
Showing less interest is the KEY to crushing it with
womenLIFEThe Red Pill is not only about crushing it with women. Show less interest in general and you'll be obtaining things you'd never dream of in life.
/FTFY
robbiedigital001 5y ago
Can you put into simple terms how this can be adapted to other areas. Thanks
Wildlife-Solution 5y ago
This concept is Key in sales and business just the same. Think of a car salesman selling you a new vehicle, if he comes of needy and pushy, he wont do as well as the laid back and solid frame of a shark in the next office.
furcryingoutloud 5y ago
Law: 16 of the 48 Rules of Power
Edit: dammit, forgot to add the edit tag, but added the below paragraph It takes a lot of practice for someone not used to playing this game. But it is always worth the end result. In business for example, once you have established a business relationship, absenting yourself at the right moments will create a sense of fear in your partner, associate. Like I said, it must be done correctly. Actually, one of the hardest rules to learn to apply. As an example, in business, I only show up to close the deal. Then I'm invisible. Letting assigned employees handle the relationship and only appearing to save the day. It works. It works beautifully. Beware though, when it doesn't work, or isn't applied with surgical precision, it could be brutally damaging. Be very very careful.
I am always concerned about how kids here have tunnel vision about just using the red pill to "get women". It is not wrong per se, but it does cheat you out of all the greatness it can provide aside from getting pussy. If you haven't read The 48 Laws of Power, I strongly suggest that you make the time to go through it. It is priceless.
My point is always that the Red Pill works on everything. Business, friendship, women. Do not miss the opportunity to apply these ideas in every aspect of your life. You'll remember me when. Pussy is a result of applying the Red Pill, it should not be the "goal".
frooschnate 5y ago
I can think of plenty situations where it doesn’t apply.
furcryingoutloud 5y ago
As I said in my very recent comment, learning to use it takes time. Yes, you'd be painfully correct in your thinking it does not apply to all situations. It must be used very carefully.
spread_awareness 5y ago
how is it like to push/pull on Tinder ? When you say that girls will try first to find on you social media.. how do you do it ?
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abdout77 5y ago
How do you approach without giving approval ?
KeffirLime 5y ago
There is none. Unless she's retarded, if you're approaching her she's well aware that you're interested.
This should not be your concern, it's how the natural order has always been. Male competes, conquers and approaches his females and she obliges.
Your concern should be more centered around being better than everyone else in the room(competing and conquering) and then approaching in a manner that exudes your value..
She'll certainly test you, but if all checks out she'll oblige.
greenwaffulz 5y ago
I now take on more of a interviewer vibe so I'll ask questions about her. It does seem "boring" and counterintuitive compared to a push/pull or compliment method, but when you're the only chill, composed guy in the room full of guys trying to get her attention you actually stand out more.
INNASKILLZ2K18 5y ago
Yes, for me it's all about being 'non-needy'. I am my own prize, and I am completely non-needy of her validation.
Truly internalising that, not just using PUA tricks or tactics to appear as such, is a game changer. Truly valuing myself, and understanding that I am responsible for meeting my own approval, my own validation and my own self-esteem. Not searching outside of myself, and being more invested in other people's opinions. It kills neediness. With women, I can ask myself what my motivation is before most of my behaviour. When I was bluepill, most of my behaviour was drive by approval/validation seeking. The more I swallow the red, the more I kill anything motivated by that.
It's a big difference between saying 'I am going to do this, because I want her to think I'm not interested, and hopefully she is attracted to me', which is still needy, and 'I actually dgaf if you're attracted, because I don't NEED you to be'.
Sensing that a man is non-needy, and doesn't seek her validation, has a tremendous effect on a woman. You could write an essay on it, but to me a huge part of it is, it takes away her sense of responsibility. Every bit of interest, attention, approval seeking, is lumping more want for her to be responsible for your emotions. A woman thinks 'oh, I have to be responsible for this guy wanting to be approved, or knowing I like him'. 5 year olds don't like responsibility.
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The more a guy shows 'hey I don't really care whether you like me, or not. I don't NEED you to be with me', the less responsibility she feels. The less responsibility, the more she can run away with her hamster and feelz.
My whole approach is centred around 'I am the prize, and IDGAF about this outcome'. I may show JUST enough curiosity to approach and want to find out about her, then it's quickly into qualifying her. Teasing, push pull, disqualifying. No chase, no 'like me, please', no investment in her opinion. A very GENUINE attitude of 'you may have passed a couple of tests, but there is a long way to go'.
Dis-interest, non-neediness. A woman can smell that on a man, and it's a fresh change from the majority of betas all helplessly craving her validation.
ozaku7 5y ago
TL;DR
Dont be a thirsty beta. 50% of the population is female. Best is to keep low and let the attraction develop by her actions to prove herself instead of giving everything right off the bat.
Women aren't special, looks don't mean anything. Give it time, be your own person.
Bing_Bang_Bam 5y ago
Boy, it is sure is tricky with women, huh?
I remember one girl I sorta liked but didn't have time to deal with and she totally dodged me. Most women won't give me the time of day after the first date.
Camp_KillYourself 5y ago
Let's be clear, LESS is more but still show SOME -- if I don't show ANY interest they think I am stuck up or "too good for them"
redpillcad 5y ago
There is a fantastic book called The Pathway to Surrender that illustrates very well how our desires can block what we hope to achieve.
This doesn't mean dont have desires. This doesnt mean dont work towards your goals. That's the SoyDream. Soy hates 100% effort
It means that an acceptance of any number of outcomes is possible and it's ok.
Didn't close the deal? There is more work to do. Girl rejected you? There are 7b more. Let go of the pain of failure by just experiencing it without trying to block it or judge yourself for having it. The energy of that negative emotion dissolves and you will have clarity on the next steps
JohnnySixguns 5y ago
Hate to rain on your parade, but there are not 7 billion more women out there.
Right sentiment. Terrible math.
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undextrois 5y ago
The best way to get someone is to pretend that you dont like them - neil strauss
Blackphish88 5y ago
I show zero interest in women. Where's my harem? /s
billybetasnan 5y ago
I give women zero attention and they always seem interested in me. I don't do it so they become attached though I'm just generally not interested in a lot of women.
tchower 5y ago
PUA is silly compared to a good looking guy that conceals intent until she invests. I’m not saying you should never approach a girl if she’s giving indicators of interest, but one of the laws of power states that “the person or group that has the least amount of interest in continuing a relationship has the most power over it”.
I think PUA is useful in maintaining the interest, but how are you going to talk the girl into being attracted to you if she isn’t horny or attracted in the first place with so much thirsty dick all around her? I’m not sure what these guys are talking about that hot girls complain about not getting hit on. It’s the complete opposite where I am from, and these girls have egotistical bitch vibe because of it. In High School and middle school it wasn’t that way, but at the club or the College Campus the girls are getting hit on and chumps buy them drinks.
whutyomamado 5y ago
Might have lost a good one or maybe I wasn't alpha enough. Met a girl on tinder and we hit it off. But she lost interest in me after 3 weeks because we only went on one date and I didnt text her enough and thought i wasn't interested. Maybe i pushed more than I should have.