Background: My father, wealthy entrepreneur from nyc, married my mother at the age of 38 with a prenup (she was 27 at the time), has been very well off financially since his mid 20s. He's always been a pretty red-pilled guy throughout his life: red-pilled father, dominant male figure, wealthy social circle, constantly had plates, had a body count of over 300 (the guy had a textbook sized photograph album of nudes of his past plates lol).
Story: My dad, married for 19 years then my mother pulled some shady stuff and ended up leaving him for one of his good friends who turned into a drug addict. She filed an order of protection shortly after, claiming my father threw a ceramic pot at her (this was false, I was there). Father was kicked out of his mansion (house under his name) for 3 years. Mother proceeded with the divorce, publicized this "assault" on social media, gave up custody of my younger siblings, fought the prenup and ended up with $1.5M in the settlement (wasn't close to half his net worth but still a considerable amount) and finally my dad was able to live back in his mansion after 3 long crippling years.
I don't think I'd ever get married unless the court system cleans up their biases.
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TLDR: Father married my mother with a prenup, mother divorces and runs off with my father's close friend who turned into a drug addict, gets my father kicked out of his house for 3 years, files a false order of protection, publicized false assault claim, gives up custody of her children, father had to pay her $1.5M.
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anti-hypergamist 5y ago
46 years old and decided to branch swing, life too boring being married to a millionaire. Did your mom at least have the looks to do that or was she delusional?
andreas-mgtow 5y ago
But couldn't he hold frame, or maybe lift more, or guide his unicorn or practice more dread?
There are no married "Alphas". There are no retarded "techniques" that "work". Just don't marry.
I know I'm in for a shitstorm of downvotes, but this is truth. TheSystem is designed to fuck you up.
trpthrowcatch 5y ago
It doesn't matter what the law is, judges can do whatever they want. Sure, they're supposed to follow the law, but they don't have to if they don't want to.
If you get legally married, you're putting your financial life in the hands of a judge that you don't even know. Is it really worth it to have that sheet of paper?
SeasonedRP 5y ago
This comment most accurately reflects the U.S. legal system. Much of the time, the way things work in prenups and in other types of cases is the judge picks which party he or she wants to win and issues rulings favorable to that party. Judges have a wide degree of discretion. Precedents are easy to distinguish. In family court matters, the outcome of a prenup and most other issues is highly dependent on the particular facts of the case, and guess who gets to decide what the facts are if the parties dispute them? That's right, the judge, the same judge who decides whether precedents apply or not. Any judge worth his or her salt knows how to issue decisions that will stand up on appeal. A prenup will get upheld if the judge thinks it is fair and sides with the party relying on it. If the judge doesn't like the prenup, he'll find some way to invalidate it. There are very, very few areas of law where the judge's hands are tied and he has to follow the law whether he likes the outcome or not. Prenups aren't one of those areas.
universalabundance1 5y ago
Can you go more in depth on the court/lawyer situation so we may learn from it?
1.5 doesn't seem that bad compared to most of the divorce-rape bills I've seen.
ZeppKfw 5y ago
Probably because of the prenup. At least he had a discount.
McVaghunter 5y ago
And there are still motherfuckers in this sub who'll tell you it's ok to get married especially if you're a red pilled man.
NEVER!
TheDevilsAdvokaat 5y ago
Prenups haven't been %100 for a long time.
That said, this is a stupid precedent for judges to follow. Once men realise that even when they do everything in their power to legally protect themselves they still get fucked, men are just going to stop getting married.
And guess what? Less and less men are marrying.
In the short term, this probably looked good for individual women. In the long term, it's a fucking stupid idea for womankind.
Memus_Vult 5y ago
They'll just appropriate men's money via the state. They'll be miserable, but won't ever recognise why.
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Less men marrying means more corporate debt slaves toiling away in one bedroom apartments with cats and dogs. It dilutes the labor pool, drives down wages, and prevents solidarity from existing. You have the individual, then the family, then communities. If families don't exist, then communities don't exist. Married people tend to shun single people, and single people are constantly rotating through friends as people move away, get married, or get sick of each other.
NormalAndy 5y ago
Bang on the mark. Atomising society, divide and conquer. Population is destined to eat itself rather than support itself in order to survive
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Well, it's the elites who have their own "society" that want to divide everyone else so they can't form rival, upstart, challenging societies.
I mean, you have humanity, and then you have civilization, and then you have society / societies. The Society at the top is informal, and they get together and rule everyone, and we live in their civilization that makes it hard to form a counter-Society to compete with them. People mostly form ad hoc social groups that lobby for some concession from Society in exchange for not causing trouble. Usually it's mediated through the court system.
BloodSurgery 5y ago
But can't one live together with a LTR, as if she were a wife, without both marrying?
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Sure. But then you also have common law marriages that result from cohabitation. Also, some jurisdictions will literally construct a marriage or marriage-equivalent legal relationship just to take your money and redistribute it. For instance, if you have a live-in plate, and she washes your plates for a few years, they'll treat as your waifu, and then you'll have to give her back pay.
LordDunderhead 5y ago
Cohabiting couples are far more likely to separate compared to married couples (which considering the lack of commitment makes total sense lol).
I guess it doesn't really matter if you don't want kids. But if you do, marriage is the way to go. Children from married couples grow up to be more emotionally stable and well adjusted.
drakehfh 5y ago
Sure. Still, it has an expiration date especially if you are living together.
Original_Dankster 5y ago
Holy fuck - that's been the last two decades of my adult life. No long term connections since I left university. Depressing really.
LordDunderhead 5y ago
That's the lifestyle you sign up for when following trp
Your_Coke_Dealer 5y ago
It’s not so much “sign up for”. It’s the way life is. The alternative is a fantasy that can at any point collapse and ruin your life entirely.
youareshandy 5y ago
Long term, women will realize that less and less men will marry, so in order to circumvent this system, women will advocate increases on taxes specifically allocated to subsidize their lives; and they'll do it under the guise of freedom from oppression.
Let's face it. System's rigged with no end in sight.
SalporinRP 5y ago
Oh I’m just bracing myself for the bachelor tax. Some countries are already mulling it over.
TheDevilsAdvokaat 5y ago
Yep. A few people have suggested this.
Women are already net tax receivers. Of course, even though they claim to be all about "equality" not one woman in the world is protesting this inequity....
RedPilledGodEmperor 5y ago
exactly. You rarely hear any women talk about how since men don't want to marry due to divorce laws, we should change them. They just amp up all the "man up and marry" talk
_Anarchon_ 5y ago
Guess who rigged it? Men. Statists have no one to blame but themselves. Remember that shit next time around fellas.
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FACEandLMS 5y ago
Govts will soon consider that dating a woman effectively means you are married and owe her half of your net worth. The only way to avoid a woman having a negative impact in your life -- false rape, divorce-rape, spermjacking, cucking, her making you raise another man's baby, false assault at work -- is to stay away from them unless witnesses are around. There is a philosophy around this that you may have heard of...
Immortus1 5y ago
I assumed as much also.. did you hear the BBC segment were they were literally talking about regulation of dating and sex and information; i.e. if sex under false pretences occurs, you can get FINES, etc.
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The thing is though.. Under a democracy, MEN can vote too and with men being 50% and women to busy shopping with mens money and such laws will eventually start being more sensible, and IF not, men will emigrate to places like china / russia / australia / etc...
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Gona be interesting either way. Grab the popcorn boys
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Immortus1 5y ago
A fair point. But something WILL happen. Note you GTFO plan..
Of course, I was generalising..
There are countries out there that would accept you, or were you could dodge border controls and just live on a farm or some crap hole haha.
Though if I understood your tone correctly, you are right, in that, maybe not running away is the solution, but damn it will be a difficult ride and most men have been beaten to wazoo already. kind of like asking someone who has just finished climbing a mountain to bench press weights for 30 minutes and then do a 9-5 . It's a crappy situation all-around. even worse for uglies or disabled / medical conditions etc.
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Imperator_Red 5y ago
The problem is that these things take time. Like marriage is a pretty fucking strong social convention. These things take about 100 years to come to fruition. Marriage got fucked in the 60s, so we probably won't see the absolute final effect of all this until the 2060s.
TheDevilsAdvokaat 5y ago
That's true.
Social movements are kind of like pendulums. They slowly gather momentum. By the time they swing down to the midpoint (true equality) they have so much momentum they cannot stop and always swing past true balance (Which is where we are now with feminism; Western world is unbalanced in favour of women)
All movements gather momentum; all of them wind up unbalancing society before a new stable point is eventually found.
And yes the 60's is too early for us to have found the new balance point yet.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
Nope. This is the pendulum fallacy that conservatives love to jerk off to in order to make ourselves feel better about constantly losing. In reality there is no "pendulum force" that moderates social change. It may have periods where it accelerates or pauses, but I have seen absolutely no evidence that there is some natural blowback that occurs.
The 100 year social change I refer to is simply how long it will take men to fully internalize the new paradigm and adjust their behavior
TheDevilsAdvokaat 5y ago
Completely disagree. First off I've never seen anyone mention a "pendulum fallacy" before. (Do you have a link?)
Second off it makes absolutely no sense. It's not just a metaphor; social change occurs BECAUSE social pressure is applied. No pressure to change, then no change occurs. Now imagine that all that "pressure to change" stops exactly when conditions have changed to the point that equality now exists - how does this happen instantaneously or even quickly? Do people everyone say "ok it's time to stop now". Did feminists say "ok we got equality let's stop now" and all stop together?
It just doesn't work like that. The pendulum is not just a metaphor, it's actually a pretty good match for what happens. Social pressures start off small and gradually built up momentum as people's ideas of a perceived unfairness grow - and again, they die back slowly as people decide fairness has been achieved. Neither of these things happen instantly or coordinatedly. They happen spontaneously as a reaction to people's perceptions.
"The 100 year social change I refer to is simply how long it will take men to fully internalize the new paradigm and adjust their behavior"
As for the 100 years, it's hard to assign a number to how many years it takes a culture to adapt to a change (And when you're talking about 100 years you're not talking about a person anymore, you're talking about an entire culture) and 100 years is probably too slow. In addition it's a nice round number and whereas round numbers are definitely appropriate in some contexts (for example, when it comes to prices, people do tend to think in whole numbers about prices which is why $1.99 looks much cheaper than $2 when it isn't) it's not really the way social change works; social change isn't organised into 100's. It can be organised roughly into generations but how long a generation is varies from culture to culture and even within a culture over time.
I have never seen anyone else refer to a pendulum when talking about social change before but perhaps they have. However, I completely disagree with your idea that it is a fallacy.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
That's because I just coined the phrase today. Why do you need a link? I explained what it is pretty clearly in my post.
TheDevilsAdvokaat 5y ago
Then why did you say "that conservatives love to jerk off to" ?
How could they be jerking off to something they doesn't know exist, as you just "coined the phrase" today?
And you ignored the rest of the points...
GAndGMethod 5y ago
This is why my plan is to marry a women with considerable more money than me.
In Cali no less, I’m the one that’s going to be getting them alimony spousal support checks.
use there own financial advancement and broken marriage laws against them.
LapsedLuddite 5y ago
I have a Cali friend who got wrecked in his divorce. He turned around and is now sponging off an apparently hot, big -boobed physician.
You have to be a tall, confident, good-looking guy to pull this off.
The smarter play, if you’re a tall, confident, good-looking guy, is to never get married in the first place.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
Can confirm this is possible. I used to bang a divorced cougar (no kids) in California that was paying alimony to her ex. Strangely, she didn't find this situation as amusing as I did.
LetsSaveTheFirsWorld 5y ago
Good luck man. I don't know many women who make a lot of money
rpbanker 5y ago
That goes contrary to female mate selection, but good luck.
monsieurhire2 5y ago
If he's good-looking enough, and knows how to slang the D, he can easily get that. All he has to do is run the same con they run: "Baby, I LOVE you! I want to BE with you! Only you can have my dick!"
Thotwrecker 5y ago
It's doable. Because you're not expecting or worrying about if they give you the boot after a few years. We know logically women try to maximize what their SMV can bat for, but always remember it's still women's judgment piloting this hypergamy drive. Basically, yeah they have "female mate selection strategy" but women do retarded shit and justify it after (aka hamster).
Spit29 5y ago
It will be an older woman with more money and lower sexual market value.
Bigspartandaddy 5y ago
Who the fuck cares if she's loaded? Make sure you set your price high though
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DiSysmic 5y ago
I love this trend where 8 line posts have a TL;DR while 8 paragraph posts don't.
That being said, sucks for him. Least we can do is learn from his experience. Also, what exactly did your father do during the whole process? Did he file anything on his side or did he just take the shitstorm?
Churningaway 5y ago
Ok. Damn.
So if prenups arent the solution for those who want kids but have considerable assets pre-marriage, what is?
I've had a wealthy uncle who quit claimed most of his property to his brother before marriage just in case but I dont have such an option. And I looked into trusts but I feel like they only make sense in the 1M+range
[deleted] 5y ago
Realistically, trusts only make sense in the 5M+range mate
NathanHollister 5y ago
The solution is don't get married, because it doesn't benefit you in any way
GeminiSix6 5y ago
I'm no expert but I guess its either having your money and assets to somebody else's name, or nothing.
Here in Mexico we call that "Presta Nombres" (Name Borrowing)
Naitra 5y ago
Set up offshore corporations, that are tied to offshore trust funds, with you being involved only few offshore companies/jurisdictions down the line.
So a simple example would be, you would have a British Virgin Island Company, that is owned by another company in Bermuda. The company in Bermuda would be the beneficiary of a trust that is set up in Cayman Islands, and you would have the power of attorney(you would need nominee shareholders and a nominee director) on the Bermuda company, while also being the trustee of the trust fund. This is a very simple setup, and it will take millions of dollars and going around the laws of 3 different jurisdictions for someone to even figure out how much money you have.
[deleted] 5y ago
Could you link a formal write-up on this? Seems like there should be a less convoluted way but what do I know. Sounds fascinating.
Naitra 5y ago
This is one of the simpler ones. There is a reason this whole setup is called "creating complex structures" by wealth managers. It's also very good for tax evasion purposes :)
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throwlaca 5y ago
you can have kids outside marriage you know.
TheDroogie 5y ago
If you have the money, then you do a discretionary trust where all assets are transferred to a new legal entity that dispenses ‘allowances’ to your family when it chooses to, but cannot be legally compelled to (so it can ignore a court order). The trustees appointed are you and your male trusted friends. The money keeps flowing until the marriage hits the rocks (which may never happen), and then the money stops.
juggernaut8 5y ago
Will this really work? No counter strategies against it?
TheDroogie 5y ago
It’s the same strategy elderly rich parents have been using when their kid is either as bankrupt (where the creditors could demand payment) or a drunkard (where he’ll drink himself to death unless supervised). In those situations the trustees are people the parents trusted.
So yes. It’s been around for over 300 years in some form or other. Get a local lawyer to draw up the correct paperwork.
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_PM_ME_UR_LINGERIE_ 5y ago
This. Living together for long enough is even worse than doing it while married. You still dont get any of the tax benefits but you'll still have to pay out your ass if there's a split if she sues for child support(also worth remembering that she can almost always just take the kids and leave but in some circumstances, the father can be charged with kidnapping for doing the same. Implication of the Duluth model attitudes).
Try find a girl thats already born into money. Or a girl that was poor-ish who will be happy just to be in your frame if you are a guy that has made something of himself and get her to sign a prenup as well as semi-regular post-nups updating/reaffirming the prenup. Harder to make the case for coercion when she has signed 5 times in 5 years. Also if you are really doing well, have the house paid off and in your name. Might be easier to have her sign away any rights to the house if she never paid towards a mortgage. Im just spitballing anyway. I could be wrong on the efficacy of all of this haha
ZeppKfw 5y ago
I've found that poor girls are more into your ability to pull money out your butt than girls that aren't. Once had one and she would always pressure me to buy drinks/dresses/sandals/etc... Probably because she hasn't experienced any of it.
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NathanHollister 5y ago
It's a common misconception that marriage gets you a tax cut. The reality is it won't be a noticeable difference. Unless one of you makes way more money than the other, in which case your taxes will be WAY higher.
[deleted] 5y ago
Easier said than done. The only women I know earning more than myself are fellow physicians or entrepreneurs. And we know how hot and feminine those women are ;)
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[deleted] 5y ago
Hmm.. I see where you're going with this. But, I think a smarter chick will be more likely to screw you over financially (smarter, more well read) given a divorce or something like that. Smarter and more wordly girls would be more likely to have the connections or wherewithal to do something like this. Just a thought. I do like 6s and 7s though. They make some great meals and are usually pretty giving in bed.
NathanHollister 5y ago
That's literally almost every state. It's called common-law marriage, and basically is you live together 8-12 years (depending on the state), gubbermint says you're married and then she can
~rape~ divorce you.Original_Dankster 5y ago
1 year in most Canadian provinces.
rpMadler 5y ago
Only 8-10 US states (two states are unclear) plus DC still recognize common law marriage, and in all cases, cohabitation is not enough. A necessary requirement is for both spouses to hold themselves out to the public as being married (e.g. introducing the other person as their spouse). I'm pretty sure that there is nowhere in the US where you can be legally considered married only by cohabitation, regardless of the duration.
celtiberian666 5y ago
It is 6 months here in Brazil. Crazy shit.
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celtiberian666 5y ago
You don't have to be that extreme. But you can't live togheter without a "contrato de união estável", thats like a "living together agreement" that separates assets, like "pre nup" before living under the same roof.
traditional_goose 5y ago
Hell with marrying. Get a maid if that dolla bill is itching yo ass. The more you slide the monetary component under the rug, the less control you have over your relationship with a woman. Keep it clearly defined and they won't come to bite you on your ass later on.
That's why women hate prostitutes and maid, but mature ones love them too. They know they are easily replaceable, but often men don't know.
_Anarchon_ 5y ago
Never get married. Don't have children. Maintain your own residence. Don't let them move in with you. Make sure there are no common law marriages where you live. Have security cameras both inside and outside your home that record and maintain videos for a good length of time. Same thing with your vehicle. Have your phone set up to record video and audio quickly and discretely. Gotta protect yourself these days.
VasiliyZaitzev 5y ago
This was in order to get him tossed from the marital home, and therefore more likely that she would keep it.
The effectiveness of pre-nups vary from state to state. Ofc, the best move is, don't get married, and don't co-habitate, especially in states that permit "common law" marriage.
Maintain sexual relationships with multiple women, don't get married, enjoy life.
moneystackin108 5y ago
Jesus. I agree with the guys below. Get the vasectomy and don't have children. There are plenty of fatherless kids out there who need mentored or coached. I'm not saying be a step dad, but maybe donate a bit of time by volunteering here and there if you really want the whole kid experience. I've had my fair share of women, no where near what your old man pulled in but they just aren't worth committing to.
tunsku 5y ago
I'd rather not have my country collapse due to low fertility rates, and I'd rather care for my own bloodline than someone else's, thanks.
bigbadbuleh 5y ago
You could do it the Cristiano Ronaldo way and just pay a woman with great genetics to be your surrogate mother.
moneystackin108 5y ago
It's all good til divorce happens. I was a family man, literally everybody in my family on both sides has been divorced at least once. All except for 3 people including myself. It's all bullshit unless your some kinda royalty then maybe I could understand your "bloodlines" like the Rothschilds or whatever. I'm sure there's a ton of people you've never met out there that share your same last name lol. Hope it's not Smith or Johnson! haha.
bigbadbuleh 5y ago
You could do it the Cristiano Ronaldo way and just pay a woman with great genetics to be your surrogate mother.
tunsku 5y ago
Yeah, if I had a lot of money.
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BrownGummyBear 5y ago
BUT MAH DNA! BUT MAH KID MUST BE MA BLOOD THEREFORE MARRIAGE IS WORTHWHILE
gets divorce raped
aDrunkenWhaler 5y ago
Didn't you say anything in court about this?
curiouschipmunk1010 5y ago
I can imagine his situation; I was in a similar. It's hard, especially if you were or are young to out a parent.
TheDroogie 5y ago
Quite often these are ‘ex parte’ meaning the other side has no notice of the hearing and is just delivered the signed court order by the police, usually in a humiliating manner at their place of work.
Most of the time they aren’t worth the massive cost and time to fight them, but best to await the ‘big day’ in court.
<sarcasm> Such a thing would never be abused by a manipulative woman of course </sarcasm>
NathanHollister 5y ago
Even if he did, it woulldn't matter. Courts believe women automatically.
FirstLastMan 5y ago
Get snipped and don't get married, boyos.
But seriously, get snipped. I caught one in the bathroom scooping cum out of a condom and trying to ram it up her holiest of holies. The look on her face when I told her I had a vasectomy and only wore condoms for STD's
NathanHollister 5y ago
I wouldn't have told her. I save the surprise of "I'm snipped" for when she claims to be preggers.
throwawaytrpguy 5y ago
Can you please describe the look on her face and what she said when you told her
VinterBot 5y ago
Probably a mix of "oh shit" and "meh what can he do anyway"
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lurkingtacopiller 5y ago
Haha doubt it would protect anything. But it would certainly light the girl's pussy on fire
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BrownGummyBear 5y ago
Get snipped AND apply the hot sauce
FuddPacker1928 5y ago
Yeah get snipped if you want to die alone in an old folks home
stoicbotanist 5y ago
Fuck this idea. I think it's a ridiculous idea to try to not die alone. WE ALL WILL DIE ALONE. Even if you have a loving wife and a dozen kids by your bedside while you drift off into the abyss, you're still dying alone. Don't change your life to help yourself on your death bed.
Only work towards a life that you're satisfied with on your death bed.
NathanHollister 5y ago
90% of people die alone in an old folks home anyway. What makes you assume your kids are gonna care about you?
stoicbotanist 5y ago
When you think about it, we all die alone.
odaklanan_insan 5y ago
My father is not gonna die alone as long as I'm alive. My only concern is if my boys will say the same for me.
But again, this whole discussion would bring us back to the elephant in the room.
NathanHollister 5y ago
You boys might not do the same. What if your wife leaves you? If she gets custody she will brainwash them into hating you. People just have this idea that they will die peacefully at home surrounded by loving family, but it's not true. Life sucks. 95% of people die alone. Having a wife and kids doesn't change it
RedPilledGodEmperor 5y ago
Also, many people die or get killed when they are alone. It's not common for someone to be around people when they do actually drop dead. There was a story about a young woman getting into the wrong uber car and the driver killed her.
swiddie 5y ago
You sure of that? Most people die alone, even if they've got family. They'll get visits and family will spend time with them, but most pass away at some random time in a home, hospital bed or operating/emergency room. There is no 'social' death, no painless death, no dignified death. It's gonna suck 99 out of a 100.
odaklanan_insan 5y ago
At least he'll know, that I'll always know him as a fine man and will honor his memory. He won't have down feelings when he thinks about me before his last breath. Anyone can go instantly. Instant death in traffic or something is always possible, that's not the point.
NathanHollister 5y ago
Will he think about you? Or will he get dementia and think about nothing for the last 15 years of his life?
Also, no matter how good your intentions may be, many old folks get to a point where they need more care than their kids can give, and they end up in a nursing home. Or, they run out of money and end up in a state run nursing home (very bad).
flyinghorse1 5y ago
I think euthanasia will come about legally so we can opt out before we need a care home.
swiddie 5y ago
I'll do it if that means I can opt for a payout of the huge chunk of money that will save the health insurance company. Been paying for health insurance all my life, I intend to use it!
LetsSaveTheFirsWorld 5y ago
Yikes. Just taking yourself out
flyinghorse1 5y ago
Better than dying of cancer or als
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circlingldn 5y ago
Why didnt your dad put most of his assets in your name?
FACEandLMS 5y ago
How are you and your dad only just learning about this? Prenups have been toilet paper for years.
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RedPilledGodEmperor 5y ago
There just honestly is no benefit to marriage anymore. I will go to weddings and "support" people who want to get married, but I will NEVER do it myself. Why even take the risk?
I don't want kids and kids would honestly be the only reason I would even consider marriage. While my parents are still married and going strong (about 30 years), I have seen plenty of people my age whose parents got divorced when young.
Also alimony because she was "accustomed to the lifestyle" is complete bullshit. If I ever get fired from a job, I can't demand the new company I work at to pay me my previous salary just because I was used to making a certain salary.
MachoToughGuy 5y ago
Looks like pops was never red pill, he was unable to keep his woman in line.
lol, as if you wouldn't lie to protect your father.
What happened to that red pilled, dominant, wealthy father you have? He couldn't hire a high profile lawyer to prove the skank he foolishly married is a liar so that his client, your red pilled, dominant father can be welcomed back to his own house?
That's some red pilled alphaness right there, a blue pilled man would have been able to live in his mansion after three and a half years.
Obviously you never read a newspaper, prenups were never considered 100% effective, they are routinely thrown out because society infantilizes women, only a fool would believe that prenups were 100% effective.
frostdrachen 5y ago
Just so you know, nowhere is safe. Not even places such as Finland, where false rape accusations etc. are comparatively rare.
As is stated by two lawyers (both vice judges):
"Avioehtosopimus ei kuitenkaan ole ehdottomasti sitova. Sen määräyksistä voidaan poiketa tai se voidaan jättää kokonaan huomiotta osituksen sovittelussa, jos avioehtosopimuksen noudattaminen johtaisi kohtuuttomaan lopputulokseen. "
Official translation: "A prenuptial agreement is not necessarily binding. It may be derogated from, or it can be entirely ignored when mediating the division of property, if the prenuptial agreement would result in an unreasonable result. "
In a given example, Anthony And Riley get a divorce after 16 years. They have two children, aged 12 and 14. Anthony earns 4000€ per months and Riley 2000€.
Riley has wasted 10 years out of the workforce taking care of the house and children, even though they had the possibility of taking their children to a nursery school or equivalent after three years or even earlier.
They live in a 400'000€ condominium, which is in Anthony's name, and have only marginal assets apart from the home and no debt.
They have a prenuptial agreement station that neither have any rights the each others' property.
As a result, the prenuptial agreement will be ignored since it would lead to an unreasonable result and Anthony and Riley will equally split the property.
​
TL;DR Do not get married. Prenups are meaningless.
TheDevilsAdvokaat 5y ago
Of course, what is an "unreasonable" result is entirely subjective.
When law is subjective...it leads to miscarriages of justice. And lack of respect and faith in the law.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
And Anthony has "wasted" 10 years paying for it, and "wasted" 10 years not being with his children. Where is Anthony's compensation?
Women win every which way: paid to not work and then paid again for the time they missed in the workforce.
Unreasonable result?
Well let's look at what happens if they weren't married: Anthony keeps his house and Riley has to get a proper job rather than working part time in the tea shop where she gets to yabber all day long.
Of course in this situation Riley will think "Anthony is actually a pretty good guy, and he's getting in shape these days. Maybe I don't want to leave as badly as I thought".
Marriage = paying her to leave
DONT_reply_with_THIS 5y ago
Raising your own children is wasting your time...
Lego_My_Alter_Eggo 5y ago
would an effective strategy be to establish a """reasonable""" prenup, where you explicitly make monetary concessions at a manageable level in order to avoid the entire prenup being over turned? seems reasonable to me - although of course retarded as contracts between two consenting adults should be respected regardless of anything - however we live in a fucked up world...
TRP8myfeels 5y ago
I like everything you are saying except that Riley wasted years raising the children.
My parents split early. My mother and father are non stop workaholics while my step mother stayed home while my father worked.
The level of attention my step mother gave me cured hundreds of my social issues when I moved in with my father.
Things my mother's side never had time or energy to notice
bakamoney 5y ago
Are their any cases of debt being split?
jackandjill22 5y ago
Whoa. That's scary.
tengo_una_pregunta 5y ago
Everywhere is safe if you just got the Dexter skills.
Pyropiro 5y ago
This is crux of the problem. If a woman sacrifices her career to bring up her kids and has absolutely nothing in her name, a divorce would pretty much wreck her. Combined with the fact that she's older and will find it much harder to find a new mate, her life is pretty much over. These laws are meant for protection, but when a bitch gets millions of dollars in pay out in order to sustain her lifestyle that was financed by the husband that's where I draw the line. Judges can often be unfair in these cases, so its best to just not marry at all.
thewrecker8 5y ago
But if a woman does do that then decides that she wants to fucki some dude. Or "falls out of love with him" why does the guy need to pay for her lifestyle? She had a lifestyle before she decided to branch swing. The bottom line is when the government decides what you need to do with your personal life, they fuck it up.
Deus_Vultan 5y ago
The problem is that women see having children as a "sacrifice". It fucking scares me to think that there are women actually thinking they are "giving something up" to have children.
Planner_Hammish 5y ago
The whole point of a prenuptial agreement is to avoid an unreasonable result!
xiaodre 5y ago
exactly this! if its not worth the paper its written on, what's the point?
Planner_Hammish 5y ago
Seems like the courts think women aren't capable of understanding the implications of a contract.
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Yes, spend a king's ransom sending the kids to an expensive nursery school just so mom can help dilute the labor pool in exchange for the validation of being a corporate serf.
If people are together over a period of years, and they have children, the law reasons that the assets acquired by the bread-winner were enabled by the domestic support provider. So, while the hubby focuses on work, wifey makes the food, cleans, takes care of errands, manages the house, manages the children. Not having to think about all those things frees up the hubby's cognitive surplus to do better at bread-winning, but then wifey develops an equity interest in the bread-winning, thru all of her unpaid labor that helps support the bread-winning. I mean, you can live with a woman for 10-20 years, and she makes no money, and then... you boot her out after she helps make you rich and she gets nothing?
That's the reasoning anyway.
Now, if the guy is super rich, and wifey just out-sources everything, and the guy was already rich, and didn't really need wifey because he could just have hired service providers, then the courts reasons that wife was deprived of her earning potential while being married.
The only way, it seems, that wifey doesn't get to take half, is if wifey works and makes her own money, or if they weren't married that long. Different states have different laws. The longer you are married, the more equity could exist, and the more likely that you deprived wifey of her prime working years.
That court doesn't want impoverished spouses on the public dole, so it tries to create situations where people stupid enough to divorce get punished.
If people were smart, they would just come to some arrangement that didn't involve using the courts. Instead, they do prisoner's dilemma stuff and fuck each other in the ass.
jackandjill22 5y ago
Fantastic explanation.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
By that rationale I owe my dishwasher and toaster a fucking fortune.
triavatar 5y ago
You paid for them upfront when you bought them from the store.
That's why in Arab world, the would-be husband typically pays the father of the would-be serf an amount of money that is basically agreed to be the value that the wife would provide as a manager of the estate.
It's basically a dishwasher+toaster+etc. That you can fuck.
So usually end up paying a handsome sum.
daymi 5y ago
In many cultures the father of the girl gives you cows and sheep etc in addition to the girl (dowry).
I keep seeing it referred to as "pay for the wife" but that's usually not what happens. As a man, you get the money and the wife from the father of your wife.
rpMadler 5y ago
But it's a known sum, as opposed to the unknown (and possibly much higher) cost of divorce rape. Plus, in those countries it comes with legally enforceable rights, because you bought that dishwasher+toaster+sex.
triavatar 5y ago
Yes, however, I fail to see your point tho, I sense you're just making the same point I'm making. In which case, okay.
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Just wait until they become sentient by being connected to the internet of things, and then sue you for reparations for your enslavement of them.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
I got this covered: I refer to my appliances by boys names. That way they are disposable with no rights.
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LetsSaveTheFirsWorld 5y ago
No one is saying she deserves nothing. The man is offering her his home and no one talks about her paying rent for those 20 years. In my opinion, women normally get too much. Was Mrs. Bezos really contributing *half* of the work the Bezos family to Amazon?
​
I think 20% is a decent number to work with. She is living in a fucking mansion after all
monsieurhire2 5y ago
I agree that much of it is bullshit, but they have their reasons.
Also, there is an intangible component to it.
I can tell you from experience, that when you are in a couple, people are nicer to you as a man, your status goes up, you get invitations, women treat you better, etc. When you go back to being single, you experience a bit of a drop. Of course, there are people who are jealous, and there are guys trying to get with your girl on the sly, etc.
But, when I was with my last GF, even though she was a lemon, just being with her really motivated me. It was like having the wind at my back. So, I think the courts are mindful of the effect that being a in relationship can have on wealth, and so they give women some. On the other hand, they can really fuck things up for you. I think they assume that the women should get the kids, and the man should work to pay for it all.
Magnum994 5y ago
That’s what she would have to feel when she would be with you in public, not you. I am not saying she didn’t, but you shouldn’t have these thoughts at all. If people treat a guy dramatically better and respect him way more when he’s with some random girl, then he should work on himself and the way he carries himself so its the girl who can feel lucky that she can keep that guy for even a day.
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Eh, true in theory, but as you age, you have to deal with people's petty judgments.
Think people who are trapped in crappy relationships, but are afraid to leave for religious or petty socio-economic reasons. They see a middle-aged single guy in his thirties and forties and they see what they think is the greener grass, and they are resentful.
Also, think about women who are just hitting the wall and looking to lock down a beta bux. It doesn't matter how gently you spurn their desperate advances, they are still going to resent you because they have been told their whole lives that THEY are the prize. They see you spending time with younger women, or even just not committing, and playing the field, and all they can think is "Peter Pan! Manchild!" instead of "Maybe if I presented myself as a better deal as a person, he would be interested." Then you have the dudes with girlfriends and wives that are worried you're going to try and screw their partner. The wives and girlfriends are trying to maintain appearances, so they may look for side-dick in married circles, so as to avoid suspicion, also reasoning that those guys are "higher value," even though that isn't necessarily true, as it may just be circle of interchangeable beta bux, whereas you the single dude, are the wild stallion who can't be tamed.
Then you have all the people who think you are "gay" or a "child molester," or else why aren't you married, hmmmm???
Or people think you are an asshole, like in The Departed.
Or poor.
Or bad in bed.
I could go on and on.
I learned in middle school not to let other people's opinions affect my view of myself. It was a matter of survival. If I caved in to the collective frame of my peers, I would have to accept their arbitrary judgment of me, as the "new" kid as at the bottom, when to me, it was pretty obvious that they just needed SOMEBODY to scapegoat and kick, and I just had the misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But that taught me early. So now, when I see the pattern repeat itself, it is just a mild annoyance. But also, it saddens me to realize that MOST people don't mature socially beyond how they were socialized in school. You literally will see the same petty dynamics play out... but with people in their 30's thru 50's or even older! They age, but they don't mature.
Anyway, so when I was with her, I noticed two things:
Insta-respect, because she was younger than me, and also looked even younger than her age, so it was like I was dating a girl half of my age, lol.
Resentment from the women in my social circle, but also it was mixed with renewed interest and competition;
New female acquaintances were way nicer;
So, it was the weird mixture of increased admiration, but also jealousy and hatred.
Then, when it fell apart, some people were gloating, and others assumed the worst about me, that it was my fault, etc. However, they eventually realized that she was crazy. But by then, they had already outed themselves.
So yeah, it was an experience in the transient nature of social esteem, lol.
It kind of reminded me of the maxim, that people like you if you are high value, but they don't like it if you are lower value and then "improve," because of how it makes them feel about their situations.
Magnum994 5y ago
It’s interesting to see your perspective and I agree with the things you said.
I just remembered I was in a restaurant with colleague last month and I was positioned so so I could see who was entering the restaurant. Suddenly a very good looking short blonde girl around 20 years old with a big smile on her face enters, behind her entered her father, a man near 50 years old, looking like some broke artist, totally uninterested and with a sullen face. But the girl was so happy and smiling at the guy it was obvious by the next second that the guy was some other daddy of hers lol In the same moment I saw the guy totally different, like he wasn’t some broke creep but instead some cool bloke who would be fun to hang with to hear some of his life stories.
The problem occurs when a guy needs attention, respect, etc. the most when he has no girls in his life, so he could attract them easier. If he relies on this, it is a problem.
Regarding social circles and public, when others see you care about their opinion, they will train you like a dog to be obedient. You do as they want, youre good boy, you wanna fuck some bitches, bad dog, bad dog... Pussy feels just as good when they talk shit about you... I had girls in my classes back in the day try to disrupt me once saying I should get a girlfriend like my classmate, and said he is so romantic (usually they didn’t even care about him, yet they suddenly talked so highly of him), I said back: “Yeah, he is total alpha Romeo now. “ When they saw I couldn’t care about their opinion, they just shut up and went away angrily, because they couldn’t get me,the friendzone guy,to stop messing around with new girls. They get a little bit competitive during this process, but if they know you as a beta from the past, that’s the place they want to put you in a heartbeat.
askmrcia 5y ago
Everything you said is 100% spot on. I've said numerous times on this sub that one of the main benefits you get when being married or ltr is that it's simply does boost your status among peers (I don't want to get married, but this is one of the benefits).
You broke it down into more details and provided personal experiences. But yes, everything you said is spot on. I was single for most of my life. Didn't have shit all through high school, college early twenties.
Sure I was charismatic, good looking, in Shape, two sport athlete for nationally ranked programs, had a good social circle and had girls from time to time (short term); it wasn't until people saw me with a girl who could be considered my actual gf did I notice people around me interacted with me differently on much more positive light.
This is college and my twenties I'm talking about, so I know it's there for guys who are older and it's much more open. Get togethers? People hesitate when bringing you around especially if it's a couple's thing. It makes the whole vibe feel weird when they see you by yourself or with a girl no one knows and won't be there for long. People judge while you're single, especially when you get older. Now this isn't a problem if your peers are single as well.
Yes, guys don't have it as bad as women, but remember, people tend to sympathize far more towards women then they do for men. You can be an overall great dude, but people will judge, especially those in long term relationships will judge you for being single behind your back.
I want to preference my comment by saying yes you can be the guy to not give a fuck. I don't when I'm the only single guy there. I'm simply saying that this is what goes on.
RStonePT 5y ago
That's not why you're putting her back to work.
It's so you void the argument that she sacraficed things to raise her kids for you.
You don't have to like it but in modern times it's required
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Eh, then she's exposed to constant temptation, depending on the work setting. It's one thing if it's a setting of bitter old broads, gay dudes, and beta-herbs. But if it's a setting where there is alpha dick floating around, then you have a whole different set of problems. "Winning" ain't easy in this modern civilization set up.
RStonePT 5y ago
Look, I'm not going to play this game, where we have to have a 100% bubble wrapped solution with 0 risk. It's never been a thing in human history, and this risk aversion is a byproduct of our femenized society.
You plan a solid risk analysis, act according to your best interests, and have outcome independence over the things you cannot control. Mitigate where you can, accept risk or don't engage where you cannot.
Or go MGTOW and get a sexdoll, either one works
monsieurhire2 5y ago
Yep, no such thing as a risk-free life. A lot stuff on here is trying to order what is essentially chaotic. You can everthing-max all you want and a woman can still leave you for someone else. C'est la vie.
Also, what if the sex-doll attains sentience?????????
RStonePT 5y ago
Then they will leave MGTOW chad for a more attractive guy in his basement lol
g0dfather93 5y ago
No, they're not. Prenups ARE still the best solution. The trick is to not be a greedy fuck and accept the fact that the woman that you are taking as your wife - implying that you found her fit to be a life partner in all spheres of life - is going to be responsible for your financial successes post marriage in a big way and that she deserves a cut of it if you ever have to separate. If she is the house handling, kid rearing type of woman that you, as a moderately rich person found a perfect fit for you, you owe her reparations. Man up, FFS.
Had Anthony not inserted the bullshit "no right to each-other's property" clause and instead co-owned the condo 70-30 from the get go, the court would have just allowed him to pay Riley €120k and keep the condo. That's a decent amount of seed cash to start a new life, you see. Instead, the court saw through the asshole design - sure, he wouldn't have rights on her property, but how the fuck is she supposed to buy property earning half as much as him, and none for the last decade? - and gave her half the condo. Good luck paying off her half now, because now he'll have to pay her interim rent, and property prices will go up by the time he arranges the €200k.
This is why reasonable lawyers know that an unfair-looking advantageous prenup is just going to be summarily discarded in a court and formulate a prenup slightly on the generous side. Because, giving her 50% extra of what she deserves is much better than getting divorce-raped and losing half of your family's century-old wealth. Wives are made part owners of all property acquired post marriage, family's old wealth is in a separate estate and she is co-signed on your personal stuff. And if and when you divorce she deservingly gets her share of the co-owned stuff. This is how old money folks do things, and courts never contest them because they're already giving a great deal and she has no case to fight. The Bezos case is an oddity because he was a tech guy and then a wall street guy, and he made all his fortune through Amazon - the idea for which he literally conceived sitting with his wife in a car. Is she owed a substantial part of it? Definitely. Half? I don't know, man. This isn't an exact science.
Sure, being a man is about winning, but it's also about not being an asshole just as much, if not more.
truthserum23 5y ago
The best solution is to not get married. Prenups are misleading, obvious by the uproar in threads like this when they are challenged. It makes no sense for a man, or a woman for that matter, to marry when they earn exponentially more than their spouse, because cutting things in half in this dynamic results in a huge win for the lower earning spouse and a huge loss for the higher earning spouse. The contributions of the lower earning spouse in the form of household duties etc. are not worth what 50% of a high earning spouse yields for them.
triavatar 5y ago
If You want children and a real career, marriage is the only realistic option we have. Long gone are the days of communal childrearing.
[deleted] 5y ago
What? I already have a "real career" in medicine. Being married or not married won't influence my success or salary. The only thing, I can probably save 75% of my income if single and a lot less if married.
Please tell us how marriage is required in order to have a real career.
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truthserum23 5y ago
Yes, but that doesn't make it a good choice. The higher earner, especially when male, will be 150% responsible for the child financially. The surplus is profit for the mother. When having children is elective, one should be aware of this reality.
triavatar 5y ago
I said 'only realistic option' not 'good'.
askmrcia 5y ago
Real career? Mind expanding on this? Are you saying you're more likely to be promoted or hired because of the marriage status?
triavatar 5y ago
Not only the increased social standing. But the fact that a proper woman will invest her time in the childrearing while you invest your time in working hard.
[deleted] 5y ago
I'm thinking of giving up my lucrative career in medicine and real estate investing here in the US because I want to have children down the line. I plan on moving to Japan or Eastern Europe and starting my family there.
I don't know what to do anymore. it took me 14 years of training to be board certified in radiology and I'm about to throw it all away due to the legal system in this country. Don't see any other choices as I want children when I'm around 40.
If anyone has some thoughts or resources for me on this I would most appreciate.
g0dfather93 5y ago
Dude, you do not need to change countries and give up your profession to settle with a wife and have kids. If you have a lot of money and property as of now, cordon off most of it as your private estate and co-sign your wife on all new property so she co-owns all of what you earn post marriage. Prenups or not, if courts see a clear demarcation between what you owned irrespective of the marriage and what you earned after the marriage, they are more than happy to let you keep the former if you part with half of the latter amicably (and it is enough to maintain her "quality of life"). Most prenups are argued because they're unfair as fuck, the rich guy (or his lawyers) get greedy and essentially leave the divorcee wife on the pavement. It does sound cool, "if you cheat on me you're on the road, bitch!" but that's exactly how your hard earned money gets raped by courts, lawyers and your ex-wife. Be fair, be understanding and be fearless in settling with a woman you feel is right. And be ready to part with a lot of your earnings in case shit goes south. That's what it is.
[deleted] 5y ago
Thanks for the suggestions. I definitely will read up a little bit on trust and estate planning. The thing is, I've asked some people I think of as mentors if I should marry in the US / in their West and they immediately answered "Hell no!"
I think if I get married in the Ukraine or in Japan I will be better off. Russian is my native language and I should be fluent in Japanese in a few years. Should things go south in those countries I don't think it will be that easy to confiscate any US based assets. I could be wrong in this but this is just my thought.
A related option may be to practice Radiology for four or six months out of the year in the States then spend the rest of the year overseas. Not sure how kids would play into this though.
ARE YOU MARRIED OR HAVE YOU BEEN MARRIED? HAVE YOU DONE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING? (sorry for caps - audio to text does that sometimes)
g0dfather93 5y ago
I am in fact married and while not uber rich to have prenups I have my finances sorted with the same thumb rules I mentioned above. My wife earns half of mine and has roughly half the assets to her name too. She's co-signee on my salary account and CC and I'm on hers. Assets realised pre-marriage are owned or co-owned by dad/mom. It's all logical and doesn't strike as odd. Mind you, this is your life partner so you have to be delicate in this matter.
What I have told you is the practice followed by my friends, who are sons of rich businessmen getting married, mostly with daughters of equally big businessmen. Those marriages are no less than business deals, mind you, as everything is vetted before marriage - I mean everything. Anyway, that's another story. They have a vertical or two named to themselves, whereas the others are named to the dad, brother, mom, etc. She's made EVP of the verticals he owns and made a stakeholder. To manage the business and the woman is now the son's job, and if he fucks up either of them, he loses them. If the woman maliciously fucks him over, the financial damage is limited. Both the bad scenarios have been known to happen, but more often than not these things work and they live to be a rich, comfortable, happy old couple.
The gist: your money belongs to both of you, old money belongs to the family; she gets half of the former and doesn't see a dime of the latter in case there are irreconcilable differences and you have to split. That's as close as you can get to having your cake and eating it too.
[deleted] 5y ago
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g0dfather93 5y ago
Family image is a big thing in these circles. Can't hang with you if you have members of disrepute in your family. "Disrepute" is defined differently by the very rich than us commoners; bankruptcy and stressed companies are bigger factors than say, an affair with a model. Their folks have to appear super close and friendly all the time despite them being on usually not so good terms on a personal level. Basically, they're looking for "gentlemanly crowd of people you can be seen with at a political fundraiser" types. Other than that, both the guy and the girl need to be highly educated, typically having done a masters degree in Europe/USA or a higher economics/finance degree. Grooming in general behaviour is a given based on the upbringing but mannerisms matter.
Apart from this, the businesses of both parties are typically unrelated or at least non competing. Exceptions are made when the girl is the only child, in which case her father slowly passes the mantle to the guy and the two entities kind of merge (this particular thing is very reminiscent of the kings of olden times who married away their girls and the kingdom used to be bundled with her). In this case either the businesses overlap, complement or the guy isn't from a business background at all but is super intelligent and charismatic. Business folks have covert ways of knowing the real financial conditions via informers on the inside, because every single person behaves as if their business has never seen a boom like they're currently in, and hunky-dory is an understatement of a forecast. Note the word behaves because they will only behave like that - they will talk as if they're out of cash for tomorrow's paper, the potatoes on their dinner plates are thanks to lenders and there is absolutely no avenues for their business. Peculiar people, to say the least. Only they understand their conflicting signals. And they will vet not only the family's, but the maternal side's, her brother's and their cousin's businesses too. They want businesses to have clean books, political connections (but too tight) and diverse sectors.
I only know as much as I have gleaned observationally from my friends and whatever little one of them divulged on his bachelor's trip. In short you can say they're a cross of Victorian era high society with modern Wall Street players.
fgts4trmp 5y ago
If you are married in Japan you can get real fucked real fast. Just in different ways than in the west.
Japan never signed the international treaty against child smuggling that pretty much all other countries have. If your jap wife decides so, she can get a divorce within a week without you knowing, and can bugger off with kids and never let you see them again. And you have no legal recourse re: kids.
Lots of military guys stationed in Japan get fucked over like this.
[deleted] 5y ago
So, possibility of not being able to see your kids, giving up 60% of your net worth, and maybe even paying alimony VS possibility of not seeing your kids? I think there is a clear winner here ;)
fgts4trmp 5y ago
All of those can happen in Japan too.
I think you didn't get my point.
[deleted] 5y ago
You can get your international assets outside of Japan seized if you're married to a Japanese woman?
Can you definitely confirm this. Most of that stuff is very illiquid and very hard to get to, if you could at all.
It seems like it would be much safer than in the US. I've gotten advice from many entrepreneurs to go to Eastern Europe.
cafeitalia 5y ago
1.5M is literally pocket money for NYC standards. Probably your dad was intelligent enough to distribute his assets to various instruments that were untouchable. In NYC, 4-5M net worth is nothing to talk about. A condo with 3+2 runs for 2M+
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Pooptrition 5y ago
Did your mother have her own separate legal counsel when they were signing the pre nup? That’s the most common way they’re challenged.
wanderer779 5y ago
This is also a good example of the importance of money.
Poor man: gets divorced, loses all his net worth and then some, moves back in with family (if he's lucky), is undateable, back in court every month for back child support, ends up mentally ill/imprisoned/dead.
Rich man: gets divorced, has to move out of his mansion for a while.
Not to diminish what your dad went through, but I've known guys who fared way worse.
divine_pizza 5y ago
I get your point, but he was definitely dealing with far more than just moving out of his mansion.
Glocks10mike 5y ago
Your last sentence said you won’t ever get married unless the court system cleans up there biases. Remember that even if they did, and you got married, the court could always change their biases again back to the current state, and you would still get fucked over.
uglynihilist 5y ago
When I see posts like that I have one question. How are you planning to have kids? Women can do all this stuff even if you are not officially married. Or I am missing something and this group is also child free?
Plenty of activities involve risk but it doesn’t mean that you have to hide from them. There is a chance to get your plate pregnant even with a condom. She can accuse you of raping her as well.
Divorce statistics are huge I agree, but how many of them are just because of financial problems, early marriages, men being beta in their relationship. I believe that if you have a red pill man in his mid 30’s that has his shit together and continues to game his wife (other women?) everything about him will demonstrate value that not many girls will want to leave behind. Finding right wife material is also important. Her background, her behaviour, her family, her values. It all has to be screened in order to minimize any risks.
replicaplater 5y ago
Screening works up to a point, you can't always be 100% objective about the situation, especially when you've invested enough in a LTR to where marriage is being considered.
The real problem is that the legal system is so skewed towards the female side that its almost incentivizing divorce. I mean, why should she stay with you (prenup or not) when she can get assets from you AND find someone else to leech on?
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GeminiSix6 5y ago
How does this happen if you are not officially married? You mean if you have kids out of marriage?
NathanHollister 5y ago
Also in many states if you're in a serious relationship with a single mom the state can declare you responsible for the kids
oholandesvoador 5y ago
What the fuck dude? How was your relationship with your mother after that? What did you said to her?
I seriously cant believe any mother would do that to the father of her son. My parents divorced when I was 9, my mother never took money or advantage of my father.
divine_pizza 5y ago
I haven’t seen her in years. She reaches out to me through text but I never respond
oholandesvoador 5y ago
Man, this is fucked up. My parents are divorced for 15 years, my mother never took anything from him, I cant imagine a mother doing this terrible thing in front of their children.
CalmPassenger 5y ago
I was wondering, since official prenups are bullshit, could a couple create their own legit legal document that says clearly the wife cannot take any money from the man in the case of a divorce that she initiates? If she signs it in front of a judge or attorney would that work?
Raknith 5y ago
Do not get married
Dontneedflashbro 5y ago
Private marriages are the only option to go now.
divine_pizza 5y ago
What is a private marriage?
markinsinz7 5y ago
See you father was and still probably is like most Chads today. they tend to have it easy with women and then meet someone who they think is different. But monogamy is a damn long hard work. Boredom gets to anyone.
Still though 19 years till either of them fucked up which is still a good run these days. Although him losing that much money I don't know - worth or not. he might feel it's worth it cause he got you. But still 1.5m is just too much.
Surprised your in this sphere though. Wealthy kids dont really go looking for stuff like this cause they are usually at top of hierarchies and have abundance.
divine_pizza 5y ago
As told by him, having his kids was his only great thing about the marriage. He’s still living very comfortably and has been dating milfs since the divorce.
As for me being in this sphere, I’d definitely say im up there but not at the top of the hierarchy, especially living in NYC. I’m 22, fit, good looking, good social standing, have a good track record with attractive women, living with my dad, just graduated college, about to take over my father’s million dollar small business in 2-3 years but only worth about 60k currently. I’ve got a long way to go until I’m at the top.
MatrixofLe3adership 5y ago
Everything's relative man. Your head-start is further along than some redpillers—who may still do nearly everything right—might ever make it. The journey never ends and it's great to strive for that, but I think if you/me/anyone lacks a sense of gratitude for the present, they inevitably lose all sense of proportion.
whatdidshewrite 5y ago
Prenups get thrown out all the time. Tell us something we don’t know
WiseMonkeyGoodMonkey 5y ago
In CA the only thing that needs to be said on her part to get it tossed is "I felt pressured into signing it". She can say it was you, a family member or your lawyer and round bin storage it is.
Synthetic_Citizen 5y ago
"I don't think I'd ever get married unless the court system cleans up their biases."
Unfortunately not, the way i see it is that gynocentrism would stir up mass uprisings from men in the form of passive resistence, civil disobedience and boycotting. If things were to become so bad that family coirt and marriage laws were to change to favour of men, it would not last long.
Like i always say, the blood is already in the water. If women were given such agency over men before they will never stop nagging and moaning to get it back, and men will probably never really trust the court system and biased laws again unless there is major incentive and assurance for men to do so.
If the laws change dont trust it for a second.
[deleted] 5y ago
Pfff. Use this as an example to protect yourself. And if this happens to you, go scorched Earth on the bitch and everyone close to her even the judge, her lawyer, the police, any one involved. Make sure she doesn't get a dime. Sue her for libel for posting on social media with no proof. Sue her for custody because she hangs out with drug addicts and has poor judgement.
Your mom sounds like a bitch and you should tell her this every time you speak to her. Call her a fucking cunt. She's not your mother.
ggggggggee 5y ago
I used to be an optimistic Traditionalist when it came to marriage. Even with the redpill I thought I could snag a lower smv female to wife up, have some kids, go to church with on Sundays etc. Now that my mom filed for divorce, I'm never getting married. The shit women can get away with is crazy. Definitely an eye opener.
throwlaca 5y ago
Why get married, why?
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It's just a piece of paper and it gives you nothing, nothing! not a single advantage to you, nor your kids.
You can have kids without being married. You can live with the girl without being married. Don't worry, god doesnt care about that, if you believe in him.
celtiberian666 5y ago
In some places you'll be considered "de facto married". Here in Brazil you have to do a sort of "living togheter agreement" (kind of a pre nup to live togheter) to avoid being raped.
NathanHollister 5y ago
This has been known for 15-20 years now. They're not worth the paper they are printed on.
The trick is not to hand a woman a loaded gun. That's the only way to prevent her from pointing it at your head.
sadomasochrist 5y ago
Don't make any agreements you can not or are not willing to personally enforce.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
DO NOT MARRY
Marriage has changed drastically in the last 50 years, and it's retrospectively enforced, and has gotten worse for men in almost every conceivable way.
Even if they make marriage magically perfect and fair today, who knows in the future? It's not the state of the laws when you marry, it's the state of the laws at divorce that matters.
Prenups can and will get thrown out. This means that the law will not protect you even when you use the law to protect you.
What's a man to do? Well, let me reason this out for the chucklefucks who can't think for themselves:
peeng_newt 5y ago
And he's not suing for libel?
TheDroogie 5y ago
Libel cases are notoriously hard to win. Super expensive and lost >95% of the time.
If you are going against a newspaper that invented something against you itself and you are not a public figure, you have some chance. Otherwise forget about it.
civilizedfrog 5y ago
Prenups don't work because of stupid shit on it eg. sex 4 times a week, stipulation on weight gain etc. Also, don't try to make her sign it on the week of wedding. Try to get it signed as far from the wedding date. She should have her own legal counsel and it is better if you do it in front of a judge.
Varsel 5y ago
Isn't it interesting how so many different sorts of contracts are considered unbreakable and 'written in stone', but prenups are always seen as unconscionable or adhesion contracts....any judge may feel free to ignore? Never marry, never cohabitate, and never give a bitch any legal advantage over you. Hopefully your father learned his lesson, and will not be repeating this mistake. Some learn, some never do.
InsidiousCurve 5y ago
How do guys here cope with the inevitable rage that sometimes consumes you on female behavior. While I can act stoic in public, I'm still a fucking human being.
daymi 5y ago
A woman is a being with her own agenda. It's her nature.
I'm not angry at a snake for biting people either. It's a shame (and I think it's terrible), but that's what snakes do. They bite. Tilting at windmills does nothing productive.
Likewise, there are people keeping tigers as pets. One day the tiger could eat them. And it would be the person's doing - and it would be silly to get angry about the tiger. It's what tigers do.
No matter how hard it is, if I let myself be in a situation where a woman could seriously hurt me, I remind myself that it's my doing at the end of the day. I shouldn't have gotten into that situation in the first place. It's my responsibility to not compromise myself.
If you want to be angry about something, be angry about all the people that lied about the tiger's nature so you felt safe erroneously.
A woman is a dangerous plaything.
Thunderbird93 5y ago
This is why TRP seems to be going bad. The Prenup held up and he paid some cash although it wasn't full proof. Lesson is pay higher lawyer fees and get a judge to notarize it. This shit is victim mentality, lets all whine about how women have it better. The system is so rigged lol. TRP seems to be about bitching about life, smh