I found this great quote by Charles Bukowski that seems to confirm the idea that men are the real romantics.
Don't wait for the good woman. She doesn't exist. There are women who can make you feel more with their bodies and their souls but these are the exact women who will turn the knife into you right in front of the crowd. Of course, I expect this, but the knife still cuts. The female loves to play man against man, and if she is in a position to do it there is not one who will resist. The male, for all his bravado and exploration, is the loyal one, the one who generally feels love. The female is skilled at betrayal and torture and damnation. Never envy a man his lady. Behind it all lies a living hell.
Charles Bukowski
karneadou 11y ago
Bukowski...a true poet and great thinker. My friend in Greece says.."men in relationships in Greece wake up crying and go to sleep crying...in between they are running around trying to please their girlfriend."
[deleted] 11y ago
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[deleted] 11y ago
A bastard in his own right. Ill take a shot of whisky when i get home from work cuz hes too dead to do that anymore
floor-pi 11y ago
Yeah. I like his novels as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't say that his issues and attitudes are admirable (pay attention to 5 minutes on)
[deleted] 11y ago
Paying attention 5 minutes on is like saying there's no reason to hit a woman.
[deleted] 11y ago
Hank Moody from Californication was actually based off Charles Bukowski, Charles had several women in his life and was as redpill as hell.
[deleted] 11y ago
It blew my mind when I first read that (in another context). It was when I realised all the soppy romantic shit I thought women truly believed was all just an emotional hypergamous circlejerk/charade.
Men have the capability to love a partner unconditionally, women just don't. Although I'm not sure if this is a good thing, it can lead to deep blue pill thinking on our part.
[deleted] 11y ago
Women in relationships are spoiled brats. Single women are a trap. (And some are even /r/traps)!
[deleted] 11y ago
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[deleted] 11y ago
No, a woman misses the emotion she felt in that period with the alpha, not the man himself.
[deleted] 11y ago
Yup this is exactly what i was going to say. Its not the man himself as an entity that matters to her, its the way he makes her "feel".
ihavespellingproblem 11y ago
alpha widow is more of a prolonged cycle of rebound ihmo
caius_iulius_caesar 11y ago
Everyone gets sick. Everyone has bad luck. Everyone gets old. Lots of people have worse things happen to them.
The alpha is only alpha for as long as he alpha.
[deleted] 11y ago
This is why they do things the way they do in the middle east. It's better for the women too as nobody wants to take care of or relate with beyond sex someone who's been passed around on the alpha cock carousel. You can liken it to zoo animals. They live better and longer lives than their wild counterparts. In the west we simply aren't allowed to properly take care of women. There zoo animals are offered better alternatives in comparison as they may be tamed, trained and controlled for their own best. It's rife with hypocrisy because we often step in and disallow certain behaviors in other aspects of people's and in particular women's lives. For example if a woman announces her suicide we don't go along with it usually, but step in and take control. Why not also for other bad choices? It's more humane. Or at least we should act in a consistent manner and let them do whatever they want.
IllimitableMan 11y ago
TLDR: women + freedom = destruction.
This is what happens when you give those whom are fundamentally irrational have a position equal or superior to those who are rational, irrational policies and social values become the norm and society degenerates. Single parenthood, about the shittest invention to come out of feminism.
[deleted] 11y ago
it's the opposite: there are several conditions for male love, and rarely, if ever is it permanent or without question.
Men give their sex unconditionally, women give their love.
IllimitableMan 11y ago
Tell the ugly girls that.
Nah, they don't. A woman's love is probably the most conditional thing in the world.
[deleted] 11y ago
Men are more likely to fuck an ugly/fat girl than women are to fuck a beta. Truth.
If a woman hit you with a pan and broke your nose would you stay with her and continue loving her? Fuck no my nigga you'd bounce. If a woman told you she wanted a harem with you and 2 other guys would you stay? Fuck no my nigga you'd bounce.
Women won't. Women stay with their violent husbands. Women stay with harems. Once a woman falls in love with your alpha she loves it til the day she dies or until she finds someone more alpha.
IllimitableMan 11y ago
See what you say isn't wrong but you're overlooking the nuances, which is why you came to the incorrect conclusion that female love is unconditional. Perhaps you know an abusive man who has controlled women rather easily and thus have this delusional idea that women give love unconditionally, but that is complete bullshit.
If you're interested, allow me to explain the nuances of although why you're not wrong in this post, your highly downvoted conclusion most definitely is wrong.
This is true. The ugly girls almost never secure commitment though from a high value mate, they too are hypergamous and they too hate betas. They are forced to settle for betas if they can't increase their SMV.
So they are fucked up, low self-esteem and depressed. They are pumped and dumped like fuck toys by guys out of their league or left to copulate with a beta. They are loathsome because they cannot fulfill their hypergamy.
These women are lower value than beta providers, a beta provider with enough cash although not respected can secure a 7/8/9. An ugly woman ,even with cash, cannot secure a high SMV male mate because a high SMV male by nature of his SMV would not need her money nor would he be attracted by it.
She's basically fucked. These are the women who comprise the core of the feminist movement, ugly, socially unaccepted women with money to throw around.
That's not unconditional love, that's an addiction to the dark triad. Men who are neurologically dark triad due to brain development issues are psychopathic/machiavellianist/narcissitic - these three core personality traits allow them to take women on the emotional whirlwind which they crave and feed off, this is what women are addicted to. Dark triad men are like crack dealers, they feed that addiction. Women thus associate these emotions with these dark triad men and form addictions to these men, that is not to be confused with "unconditionally loving them." They are literally slaves to these men, that is not "love" that is addiction.
If a womans love was unconditional, once you acquired her you wouldn't need to keep gaming her because you have her love now and thus under your logic, she unconditionally loves you now. Women fall out of love, if YOU ARE NOT A DARK TRIAD MAN, aka you are like the 99.9% of men who aren't pathologically neurotic/machiavellianist/narcissitic and thus you will not find women becoming addicted to you because of how you fuck with their feelings.
If you want to call an addiction to dark triad personality traits unconditional love, then fine, you can say socially degenerate men acquire unconditional love from women. But everyone else who is physiologically healthy will never receive unconditional love from a woman, in fact the entire nature of their relationship is completely conditional on what he can provide, how good his game is (subject to change because he doesn't have the innate physiological advantages which form the power base of the dark triad guy), what competition the guy has and so on and so forth.
When you said a woman's love is unconditional I immediately construed that as an incredibly blue pill statement, and I'm not saying its blue pill to try and frame you as weak, it's not personal - that is simply just very deluded thinking. On a personal level I don't think you're blue pill, I think you fail to distinguish the difference between what a dark triad man is and what the rest of human men are and perhaps you have seen a dark triad man mercilessly rule a woman close to you and thus believe women give love unconditionally. They really don't at all.
Also another thing, for the many people in this sub there seems to be this desire to want to "become dark triad." this is a delusion in and of itself and if any of you have ever known a man who is dark triad, you'd realise why. Researching the dark triad won't make you dark triad.
Psychopathy is not learnt, it's physiological/genetic, you're gonna need to go get brain damage to become a psychopath. You can study machiavellianism and strategy to become a borderline dark triad which will help you succeed in life, but you will never be full dark triad.
If you've ever known an individual who was dark triad you will see the level they operate at, they are cold people who command respect, their brain is operating in a way yours can't because the neurological structures are different, as I described earlier, when they do bad shit they actually don't care or feel like they care. A person proficient in practicing stoicism/desensitization to a stimulus tries (often successfully) to block out what they are feeling. An actual dark triad person has nothing to block out at all, they have no emotional hurdle to overcome or block out, that challenge isn't even present to them - hence their power.
[deleted] 11y ago
i don't even have to read this to make the ##betacomments
we're not writing thesis papers here, we're discussing experiences.
IllimitableMan 11y ago
You're a bigot with an ego. As my brilliance is wasted on you, other people can have the pleasure from learning from it instead.
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NeatoCogito 11y ago
All I see is someone too stupid to understand a well written argument trying to win by resorting to name calling.
It's pathetic.
[deleted] 11y ago
betacomments
IllimitableMan 11y ago
Lol at you trying to head fuck its cute. Lets battle with our egos and bullshit then and fuck the intellectualism because you're "above it." (read: beneath it)
You retreated when you refused to engage and address. Your mind is shut. You rebutted nothing, like a feminist you just screamed "I'm above this" by refusing to address shit. If you'd read it you'd know I was extremely humble, but as your ego is sensitive you probably didn't get past the bit telling you you were wrong, so you just shutdown and tried to frame yourself as superior with this dumb "betacomments" bullshit - that comment is pure red pill son, you're bigoted - that means close-minded. That is an observation of your lack of willingness to engage, not a shaming tactic.
There you go again, shame, shame shame. Shame I don't care.
You're explaining to a TRP endorsed guy what TRP is, hilarious.
[deleted] 11y ago
betacomments
magicalbird 11y ago
Funny this is the one quote feminists don't use on their online profiles
AbraxianAeon 11y ago
Lol, it is on mine.
[deleted] 11y ago
Even though he was known to hit and abuse women, even while on the watchful eye of film, Bukowski had his fair share of emotional love affairs. He may have felt this way at the time he wrote it, but depending on how drunk he was he could also be seen crying at the feet of his unrequited love-lust.
masterrod 11y ago
Charles is a cynical man. The tyrannical nature is what makes women wonderful. It's our problem that we want to control the woman, when she's in fact beauty incarnate.
It's more important to play with the energy, love it, or leave it. Because unfortunately it's all love.
jagrmeister721 11y ago
LOL. I thought you were joking but you appear to be serious. "It's all love" - hahahahaha. OK. Yes, of course. Acknowledge that a woman is using cro-magnon criteria to make opportunistic alliances with men. Then decide to use PUA to access her subconscious triggers and steer the animal around. Or don't and realize it's not worth the trouble --> MGTOW. But don't romanticize their f*cked up behavior.
masterrod 11y ago
Unfortunately, it as all love.. When you think of the play is all love, it makes it much easier to spank her when she's being her primitive cromagnon self.
floor-pi 11y ago
You might have said it more sappily than i would, but you're right on. The problem on TRP is that people respond to 'understanding' with anger and detachment, rather than recognising that 'understanding' evens the playing field. Once you understand certain aspects of relationships, the whole thing becomes more enjoyable, than less.
IllimitableMan 11y ago
I believe hypergamy and the disloyalty it spawns are the reasons for the outrage.
masterrod 11y ago
Right on brother.
BoyMeetsHarem 11y ago
More needs to be said on this - maybe some new material for the sidebar. I think a lot of us (myself included) get trapped in the detatchment, frustrated with struggling to change from beta to alpha, and in the end just end up going our own way because it feels so much easier.
Not that there is anything wrong with MGTOW either, but I think I would personally be happier if I could cross over to the happy understanding you're talking about and start participating in relationships again.
Right now I just feel bitter and terrified of having the rest of my life ruined even further than it already has been, and that's not a fun way to live life.
[deleted] 11y ago
The rest of your ego but when it comes down to it it doesnt matter if your girl cheats on you, youre judgong yourself by it.. and any dude that says ha that dumb dude is whipped has been thru or will go thru the same shit!
floor-pi 11y ago
To be honest, I feel that this is where the Pick Up Artist community takes over, if you want direction. If you go into PUA not understanding these things, you'll be frustrated, if you go in with the understanding, you can take lots from it. And i'm not even talking about 'game', but rather, the stuff on self-improvement. The whole jive on inner game and valuing yourself being particularly relevant.
BoyMeetsHarem 11y ago
Any recommendations for good sites to learn PUA without having to filter through all the white knight crap on Seddit?
floor-pi 11y ago
No man not really. I'd say that i read the material a lot, but intermittently, and with a healthy dose of scepticism. Tyler Durden, as weird a guy as he is, has some good stuff on inner game. The Blueprint is a good dvd series of his. Like his whole deal is about improving yourself and your mentality, irrespective of whether it leads to improvements with women almost. So i'd say that that'd be a good start. It seems to me that there is serious crossover between the community ideas here and on /r/seduction. Any white-knightism seems to generally be rallied against there.
sloaaron12 11y ago
Wow I can feel the bitterness through the screen.
IllimitableMan 11y ago
Bitterness doesn't make fact incorrect.
sloaaron12 11y ago
I don't think generalizations can ever be considered fact when applied to human interaction.
IllimitableMan 11y ago
It's a generalisation with a high degree of certainty and therefore a trend.
This kind of stuff is observed so much repeatedly in different women across different cultures and time periods that whether one learns it from bitter experience, watching someone else's experience or reading a book - the wisdom and intellectual outcome remain the same.
By focusing on the fallacy of say a "hasty generalisation" you imply that the generalisation is not valid because there are exceptions, however this is a generalisation that can be backed up by countless eyewitness testimony and observance.
sloaaron12 11y ago
I never said the generalization wasn't valid. But saying no good woman exists isn't true to any degree. Finding one is unlikely, but not impossible to find. This is where I see the bitterness. Too black and white.