Several people wanted to hear my story after reading my recent comments so I thought I'd oblige because it is probably helpful to others. It's long but I wanted to show you what life is like if you follow in my footsteps.
I'll start with the disclaimer that I'm in my current situation because of my own actions. I allowed every bit of this to happen and I take full responsibility. I was blue pill/beta bucks to the extreme until I said fuck it and drew a line in the sand. Now I'm divorced and giving her a ton of money every month. I'm broke but happy. You don't have to end up in the same position.
How I Got Here
I met my now ex-wife when I was a junior in college. She was the exact opposite of me. Extroverted, life of the party, always seeing the positive and ignoring the negative. I was much more reserved and didn't need to be the center of attention.
I was a year ahead of her in school so a few months before I was to graduate, she said "Where is this going? I'm not going to waste my time if this isn't going to lead to marriage."
I bought the engagement ring the next week with my student loan money.
At this point of my life despite being a former college athlete, a stellar student who was nominated for the highest academic award for graduating seniors, and starting student groups on campus I was depressed and had no self esteem. When she gave me what was essentially an ultimatum, I had just been put on the waiting list for the graduate program I wanted to attend. I was told to apply to medical school instead because it was easier to get into but I didn't want to spend the next 10 years in school because I was getting married to this great woman.
When we first got married, we were 22 years old. I worked 4pm-1am and she worked temp jobs from 8-5. It was the mid 90's just before the dot com boom so jobs weren't as easy to come by. She got bored quickly and started to spend her time in the evenings shopping. When I got the credit card bill, I was pissed and cut up the credit card. When she found out, she told me that I couldn't do that and that it will take time for her to adjust because her dad would buy her anything she wanted when she was growing up. She used shopping as therapy the rest of our marriage.
After being married a year, she tired of working temp jobs because her sociology/women's studies degree wasn't very useful in finding a job of substance. She decided that she was going to go back for a Masters degree to become a teacher. It was her life's calling, she said. I was completely opposed as was her entire family. She quit the job she had at the time and went to school full time. I paid for her degree in addition to the house we had just bought on my salary alone because I had just self-studied my was to becoming a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. At the time, this certification was a license to print money. In reality, it made it so that she'd never have to work the rest of our marriage.
By the time she finished the degree, our first child was born so she was in no hurry to get out there and work. Eventually, she did get a teaching job and quit after one week. That was the end of her teaching career. It was no longer her life's calling and I was supportive because I was the breadwinner who was supposed to support his family. Over the years, two more kids were born and she took a job here or there that never lasted more than a few months at a time.
Our third child was born by the time I was 30 and I had become extremely resentful because she made it known that the world revolved around her. And I let it continue. She told me one day that it was just expected of me to go to work so that didn't count when comparing our responsibilities. I was expected to do just as much around the house as she was and she let things sit until I was home. Her days were spent with her friends and their children or dropping the kids at mothers morning out so she could have some adult time. Cleaning and cooking could wait until I was home to help. Any time I mentioned that the situation was unfair was met with a list of all the things I didn't do right in the relationship. She could do no wrong.
By year 15 of our marriage, I was done. I had become nothing more than an ATM for her and she did anything she wanted. She decided to finally get a full time job because she was unhappy with life too. The truth was that we were constantly stressed because of money because the credit cards were always maxed and we had no money despite my excellent salary. My hamster was working overtime thinking about how great life was going to be now that we had two incomes!
That ended quickly when she wouldn't get home until after 7 each night and I had to do all the cooking, cleaning and homework as well as listening to her complain about her "horrible" coworkers who "didn't know how to run a business" every night for two hours. So I did what a lot of guys do. I got a blow job from a 24 year old who showed some interest in me. I deserved it, I thought. My ungrateful wife didn't care about anything other than my paycheck and she never gave me blow jobs.
The Road to The Red Pill
I had what could best be described as a come to Jesus moment after I left blow job girl. I don't know why it did, but it hit me that I had been rationalizing my own actions in order to cope with my miserable life at home. I had been depressed for a long time and kept blaming my wife for it. If only she'd do A, B and C, I would be happy. This is when I saw the bullshit in my own head for what it was.
Blow job girl continued to text and I kept blowing her off so I could deal with my own shit. She started getting crazier and more ballsy by calling and texting when she knew I'd be home with my family so I told my wife what happened. We started marriage counseling a week later and I got on an antidepressant and went to therapy on my own as well.
I went into couples counseling and fell on my sword and took responsibility for everything. I essentially handed any little shred of control I might have had in the relationship to my wife and I would never get it back. Over the next two years, we went to counseling off and on. I thought we had worked through everything because the ex would constantly say that she had forgiven me. Even the counselor was pissed because I would say "I hear her say she has forgiven me, but I don't feel like she has." The counselor asked me what more I wanted, she said she forgave you. I told her I wanted to FEEL forgiven. So at every session, I was given something else the wife wanted me to do to be a better husband and I would do it only to be given another task at the next session.
I finally realized that the man my wife said she wanted was not me and that the marriage was probably over so I took what could best be described as the nuclear route. One night while sitting in bed I told my wife that I wasn't satisfied with the relationship and things had to change if we were going to be together. I told her that she was getting all the benefits out of the relationship and I was getting none. She exploded and told me that I was getting many benefits. When I asked her to name them she said "I raised our children to be great people." I laughed and told her to take the kids out of the equation and then tell me what benefits I was getting. She had no answer so she asked what I wanted.
This is where I put the final nail in the coffin of our marriage. I had been reading TRP extensively and decided at this point that I didn't care if I stayed married or not so I told her that I wanted blow jobs, a clean house and dinner when I got home. Needless to say that didn't go over well and was the subject of our final counseling session. The therapist was digusted with me and I simply sat there and said that's what I want. At this point, my wife said her now famous comment, "if we get divorced, I'm going to rock my next husband's world!" I started interviewing divorce lawyers the next week knowing what was coming.
Divorce
When my wife finally said she wanted a divorce, I simply responded "ok" because I knew it was coming. I then waited for her to file papers so that I'd be the one who got served but she never would. She demanded I move out of the house before she filed. I have no idea why that was her requirement, so I filed instead. I also cut off her access to my paycheck and didn't give her any money at all. She had a part time job that could cover her own stuff.
She kept demanding that I move out and I told her I wouldn't until she agreed in writing to 50/50 parenting time with the kids. She wouldn't agree. She wanted $1000 a month temporarily and to have a 60/40 split on parenting time. I ended up living in the house with her for almost six months until we ended up in court. When we left court, I left with 50/50 parenting time and only had to pay her $800 a month. She isn't very smart.
The divorce dragged on for another few months all while she was running around town messing with several different guys. The main guy was on probation and worked at a second-hand store. She loved telling all her friends about her escapades and her friends husbands would sometimes tell me.
The divorce finally ended when we made an offer that her lawyer couldn't ignore without risking that he might not get paid. She tried to keep fighting but eventually agreed when her lawyer threatened to quit on her. Her lawyer was willing to walk away without getting paid because of her insanity.
In the end, I'm paying her 25% of my salary over the next eight years. It could have been worse, because we were married long enough that I could have been on the hook for lifetime alimony. In addition, I had to pay my lawyer, her lawyer, 50% of all my retirement funds and give her another few thousand dollars to make her go away. It cost me $20 to get married and will cost me over $220,000 to get divorced. I got the only thing I truly wanted which was 50/50 parenting time with our kids.
Lessons Learned
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Don't live life how others think you should
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You come first in your own life and everyone else will be better for it
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Don't forgo your own happiness for the happiness of others
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Don't get married young. In fact, don't get married
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Marriage has almost no benefit to the person with the higher income
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Deal with your own problems NOW!
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AWALT
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What she says is irrelevant, only her actions matter
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Be diligent, gaslighting is real. You naturally want to believe everything told to you by someone who loves you
- If you're headed for divorce, you have to be two steps ahead of her to be able to get a fair deal. The courts are still far more favorable to women.
I hope this helps some of you see what happens if you are Beta Bucks. Don't let this happen to you. Let me know if you have any other questions I can answer.
d4rkj4y 10y ago
You missed one thing. Don't ever, EVER let a woman know about your finances, at least completely. EVER. Not even if you are married. Am eagerly awaiting arguments, comment your response below
tk425 10y ago
it disgusts me that even in this day and age a woman with a masters somehow still "deserves" alimony. make your own god damn money with your education.
epileptic_bear_fur 10y ago
I'm still young, can anyone care to explain why and how she gets money she doesn't deserve. It's a hazy concept for me, I only get it that when you divorce and split all costs that you have to buy out your wife if you want to live alone in your house. But paying her 800 a month seems so weird.
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Darthstacker 10y ago
I think you have a really good plan but it's not foolproof. Don't tell anyone about these assets and don't tell the future Mrs. should you decide to get married. I work in asset protection. She can do a discovery deposition in the divorce and you can't lie. If they catch you in a lie you can go to jail and lose everything. Just keep your cards close to your vest is the best protection.
coochiesmoochie 10y ago
Wouldn't any trust fund be immune to litigation? Have you heard of kiss trust?
On another note, can you do an AMA?
jamesez501 10y ago
Thank you so very much for this information. I hope all goes well for you, you deserve it.
WishfulTraveler 10y ago
What type of lawyer/accountant?
watersign 10y ago
Got any particular websites/books that you reccomend looking into? I want to do this immediately
beginner_ 10y ago
Where I live you can before the marriage make up a lits of stuff and it's worth (including plain money) and in case of divorce it will be given to the one which owned it prior to marriage. So if you have 250k it will be yours again...UNLESS you buy a house with it and but both names on it.
EDIT:
In fact I got it wrong. Above is the default.I f you choose the option I meant, each person will have to manage their own money and you will not get any of the others in case of divorce. But it excludes pension which must be shared.
demoneyes905 10y ago
I am not very well versed in offshore trusts. Isn't this illegal in some way since even the IRS can't touch it (tax evasion, etc.)? Or is this aftertax income that you just put in a series of international accounts?
Glenbert 10y ago
Sad thing is this: if I ever opted to divorce a SAHM, I would be willing to pay alimony. But given the way thong work now, I would need to consider this before being married.
NakedAndBehindYou 10y ago
If you're going to all that work to prevent being divorce raped... then WHY STILL GET MARRIED?
drcross 10y ago
All it takes is one crazy plate hitting the wall and you have child support, you don't necessarily have to get married
aguy01 10y ago
My GF was telling me recently about how her mom hired a PI and he found that my GF's dad had $8 million in offshore accounts. I believe the guy put it there several years after they were already married (he got the money from a big contract which he lied about how much he made from it). Is it possible her mom could steal this money in a divorce?
[deleted] 10y ago
Quite possibly. Money put there BEFORE the marriage (2 years before to be safe) should be relatively safe. But any income during the marriage is considered a shared resource. It's joint income - he closed the deal when they were married - meaning it's 1/2 hers in the eye of the law, no matter where it is.
It really depends on who's lawyer is better, what state, what was their prenup if any, and so on. If she can prove those assets are joint assets, which might be hard (say the PI found this out through a method that wouldn't be admissable in court) or it might be easy, I'd say he's going to have to pay some.
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systembreaker 10y ago
Why in the world are you posting details about your plan?
At the very least you're possibly folding your hand on the blinds.
Worst case scenario is that there is one tiny aspect of your plans that are not quite legal. One little aspect that you missed or don't understand due to not being a lawyer. Yet here is a posting of your intentions before you're able to solidify them. And here is a possible history of those plans associated with a personal motive, for after you solidify them.
Most likely your post is harmless. I'm just being paranoid in a strategic/pragmatic kinda way. Overall, seems like it'd be most wise to remove the details from your post (e.g. the country name), if not delete the entire thing.
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systembreaker 10y ago
I don't think you're breaking any laws. But divorce court is a different system than the courts that mediate on criminal law. You can still get screwed without breaking any laws.
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[deleted] 10y ago
I'm thinking of slowly buying gold coins and hiding them in various places. Do you think that might work?
FagCocoOil 10y ago
I was thinking of writing a guide for Red Pill newcomers. Yes, they have the sidebar, but what if they had a condensed post that covers a couple of topics - women, health & fitness, marriage, career, assets.
What do you guys think?
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BluepillProfessor 10y ago
A 10 page primer compiling all the sidebar complete with links would be...sidebar material.
FloranHunter 10y ago
A primer would be a good resource to direct people since "read the sidebar" rarely works. It would also provide newbies a place to skim to get back on track.
Nerf_Circus 10y ago
A strong into into asset protection is something I would be interested. Fitness, women, marriage(and the idea lack of it) are covered pretty often here.
[deleted] 10y ago
Do it. It would be great if we can get 5-10 RPers with real experience in this to all chime in and give some perspective. Across the rest of reddit and even in TRP, people don't really know what they are talking about and are just parroting what they heard in whatever book they read of story they heard about a guy who avoided divorce rape by moving to Armenia or whatever.
jackbauer634 10y ago
OK two general principles:
(1) A bad asset protection plan might be worse than no plan at all. (2) Offshore/foreign trusts/entities/accounts are only as useful as your willingness to relocate to those jurisdictions.
There are some other things to consider:
(a) Assets before marriage are non-marital property; however (b) A judge might order you to pay spousal/child support, even if you don't have a job, in which case non-marital assets become de-facto marital assets when the asset seizures start. (c) Retirement accounts, protected from almost all creditors on public policy grounds, since these represent your future income when you can no longer provide for yourself, are fair game in divorce, and in general cannot be included in an asset protection plan. (d) The IRS gives you a long rope, and you can easily hang yourself trying to protect assets, only to end up owing Uncle Sam huge amounts, which will be used to provide entitlement benefits for single mothers.
Read this book five times:
http://www.amazon.com/Asset-Protection-Concepts-Strategies-Protecting/dp/0071432167
Then you need to understand the law in your state, since state-specific things are very important. What works in some states does not work in others, because some state's laws are more hosed than others.
The basic strategy is to organize your affairs so that insane family law is thwarted by, for example, sane business law.
For example, the single best asset protection structure out there is probably an LLC when used for a legitimate business purpose with one or more business partners. This is because assets in a partnership-type business have been protected under English common law doctrine for hundreds of years. Just need to do your homework.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
That is totally 100% incorrect. US judgements are not enforceable overseas. A guy can get a judgement against you in the US all he wants, he can't go offshore and seize your assets without filing his case offshore (which if you structure it right is multiple jurisdictions)
Which is why as much of your assets as possible should be offshore.
(c) Retirement accounts, protected from almost all creditors on public policy grounds, since these represent your future income when you can no longer provide for yourself, are fair game in divorce, and in general cannot be included in an asset protection plan.
True enough, but this is why you should be using your assets to fund a trust (ideally offshore)
(d) The IRS gives you a long rope, and you can easily hang yourself trying to protect assets, only to end up owing Uncle Sam huge amounts, which will be used to provide entitlement benefits for single mothers.
How so? An offshore asset protection trust is tax neutral. There are only problems if you are trying to not pay taxes.
Another reason to go offshore. In the US a ruling in one state can be enforced in another state, which means that a state that doesn't recognize certain trust benefits can try to pierce your trust.
Agreed.
Yes, and it is even better if that LLC is offshore (if your business allows it) and the LLC ought to be owned by a Trust as well.
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jackbauer634 10y ago
A couple of things to consider:
Most of the things that can be done offshore can also be done onshore. Unless you're actually involved in an international business, an offshore entity might not be a good choice. That's because there are tax implications, the costs are much higher, and judges have civil contempt powers:
http://www.assetprotectionlawjournal.com/tags/anderson-relief/
The example I give, using an LLC with a legit business purpose and business partners, has been protected under common law doctrine for hundreds of years. The book I linked is plenty up to date, since it was written within the past few hundred years. Of course, some aspects of the law are likely to change, especially as they are abused. However there are some legal protections that exist for important public policy reasons that are unlikely to change.
The biggest problem with trusts are fraudulent transfer laws. Most states have adopted the UFTA, which is an insane law. You can commit a constructive fraudulent transfer before a creditor exists and yet still have those transfers set aside under a statute of limitations of 4-10 years, depending on the state. You can attempt to transact with the trust for value, but these will be non-arms-length transactions--not ironclad. In contrast, an exchange of assets for LLC membership interests is an exchange of value, usually not subject to fraudulent transfer concerns.
With your offshore trust, if you don't get everything right when transferring assets to the trust, and the statute of limitations hasn't run when litigation begins, then a judge will just order you to repatriate on pain of civil contempt. Now you're in a much worse position than if you had become an entrepreneur with a properly structured business entity. Trusts can be useful but they aren't a silver bullet.
Maybe you know what you're doing--but does that scale to everyone else on TRP? Are they going to get things setup correctly or will they just have a false sense of security? When they get sued, will they understand that a judge is a human being with broad discretionary powers?
You don't want to thumb your nose at a judge. You want a judge to agree with your position, since there are important public policy grounds for doing so. If a family court judge makes a insane ruling, you want to be able to go over to a normal court and get it quashed.
You can achieve all of these things by using one area of the law to buffer yourself against another. Legal, ethical, and effective.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
What tax implications? You can just have your offshore company be a pass-through entity. If your business has non US sourced income you can potentially save on taxes as well.
That's not a problem if you don't fraudulently transfer assets. It's also a reason to go offshore as the fraudulent transfer provisions are generally less.
Which is why you should go offshore.
I agree they are not a silver bullet, nothing is. But if you transfer assets to a trust properly, which is not that hard, then you don't own them anymore. There is always a threat of a rogue judge citing you for contempt for something, but isn't it better to have the laws on your side when dealing with a rogue judge than it is to have the laws against you when dealing with a rogue judge?
I can't answer for OP, but doesn't this apply to onshore asset protection plans as well?
Yes of course, but I don't see how that works against offshore asset protection.
Yup, and it is legal, ethical, and even more effective to do these things offshore.
Derjenige 10y ago
Up vote for you, I'm interested as fuck in this kind of stuff.
[deleted] 10y ago
While I think this is all good, I think the better advice would be to get a good attorney before you are married. One thing I made sure to do before leaving college was to make friends with a lawyer, a doctor, an accountant and a banker.
blazingcopper 10y ago
No the problem will be when blue pill and women catch on and read it. That will open a whole fucking can of worms. You think they don't lurk?
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BadgerBurger 10y ago
I hate to break this to you, but any future wife would be able to touch it in a divorce as long as she knew about the asset and brought it up in a divorce proceeding. Doesn't matter where in the world your assets are.
You're just protecting your business from tax liability, which is smart.
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BadgerBurger 10y ago
I work in this field directly. I'm a lawyer. That's all I will say about my career. But don't tell me to do research on a subject you admit not being an expert on.
You're not bulletproof. A judge can order you to give over the equivalent amount of, say 50% of your assets. If your now-angry ex wife knows about those assets, do you think judges just say, "Oh good job! You sure tricked us with that offshore trust!"? No. You may not have to surrender the asset itself, but if a judge rules that you owe 50% of your assets, he's going to include whatever you have de facto ownership of.
FATCA. The IRS. Contempt of court. These are just some of the tools the government has. You protected your assets from tax liability. You have not insulated yourself from the long dick of the government should you find yourself in a divorce.
Listen to me or don't -- won't affect me a bit. But my advice is this: you are not bulletproof in a divorce.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
I work in this field directly, and have decided to chime in here. Every time there is a discussion of offshore asset protection a bunch of domestic lawyers always come to point out that offshore asset protection is not bullet-proof. It's a straw-man argument.
Of course it is not bullet-proof, but it is BETTER than the domestic solutions for a variety of reasons.
First of all, everything above applies equally to onshore asset protection plans, so what you are saying is not a criticism of offshore trusts, it is a criticism of asset protection in general.
The point: you can always have a crazy judge that doesn't follow the law. Sure, you could have properly alienated the assets years ago and a judge can still say "fuck you, pay her".
The response to that is multiple. First of all, if the law is on your side (assuming you didn't fraudulently transfer marital property and such) then the law is on your side. You can appeal to hire courts.
Second, if for some reason that doesn't work you have the option of leaving the country and/or taking the contempt citation. The contempt is going to be tough to do because in a properly set up trust there is the provision which allows the trustee to remove the settlor as a beneficiary and such. Therefore, a judge would have to order you to do something you cannot physically do.
Now, all these things apply to domestic trusts as well with the exception though that the only pressue a US judge can put on you with an offshore trust is the threat of the contempt citation. In a domestic trust the judge can order that the assets be seized.
How is FATCA a tool? Nobody here is talking about cheating on taxes. This is another common straw man. An offshore trust for an American is almost certainly going to be set up to be tax neutral and fully FATCA compliant.
No, you are not.
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BadgerBurger 10y ago
It is fucked. Here's how it works:
In the divorce, you'll have to declare all of your assets. Your soon to be ex wife notices you didn't mention the offshore stuff. Now you'll have to list it, and you've found yourself on the judge'a bad side.
So after discovery, it comes out that the value of all your assets is worth $10m, for example. And say the judge says you're gonna split it all 50/50 (a very bad result but just an example).
You don't have to hand over the asset itself, but you'll have to hand over an equivalent value. Ignore the court'a order at your own peril.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
I don't seen anyone suggesting that anyone lie to a judge. As to how to properly address this you would want to discuss with your divorce lawyer, but in the meantime it is perfectly fine to point out that you have properly settled a trust.
Unless of course they are not your assets. The whole point of a trust is that they are not your assets anymore.
Your argument seems to be that "the judge might wholly ignore the law". That is true, but that is not a reason not to have the law on your side.
BadgerBurger 10y ago
Yeah, kinda. Depends on your state, but they usually decide based on equity.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
Sure, but if something is not yours it's not yours. I understand that people get in trouble because they spend 2K buying a trust in Belize and openly flout that they are still in control of the assets... people get burned by that all the time. But a Trust is a Trust. I have a buddy going through a divorce right now... the wife is totally fucked. He set his trust up properly before he married her and there is zero indication that he has any control.
Prattler26 10y ago
Check out bitcoin. It's the ultimate offshore account in your pocket or in your brain.
niczar 10y ago
It's a huge risk in itself. If you have money, you should put it in many different places.
Birdoftruth 10y ago
couldnt you have just saved a lot of time and money just doing a prenup?
blazingcopper 10y ago
Those get thrown out by judges all the time
Birdoftruth 10y ago
is this true? Not debating but I am not educated on this topic.
Why do they get thrown out?
blazingcopper 10y ago
Look it up. They throw them out on frivolous reasons like she signed under duress or it's too one sided. Not even joking.
MartialWay 10y ago
This can be of surprisingly little protective value unless your body is also in Antigua. Family courts most common and most devastating weapon is "X amount of money a week or you go to jail". Then it's up to YOU to get the money, or you go to jail.
coochiesmoochie 10y ago
You're talking about payments made from FUTURE INCOME. Asset protection funds are used to protect your PAST SAVINGS like retirement accounts, savings accounts, house, car, etc. And they're quite effective at that.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
The family law judge is going to rule the way he is going to rule. It is better if your assets have been given to a trust that is overseas. A properly set up trust has a provision where if you are under legal attack the trustee removes you as a beneficiary and you are in no position to do anything.
MartialWay 10y ago
I fail to see how being in jail with no access to your money is a positive. I'm not saying this system offers no protection, I'm just advising that Family Court is pretty damn dangerous, like a cross between a Mafia loanshark and and a rabid pitbull with AIDS (only less merciful) and they've sidestepped a lot of these measures with this brutal, brutal weapon.
Even if you DID in reality lose all your assets, business and ability to make money, they might STILL throw you in jail if you don't come up with the money. Look up Imputed Income...there are law firms that SPECIALIZE in assigning high potential incomes, even to people that have NEVER made that kind of money. One guy never made more 30k a year as a musician, and they assigned him an income of 90k as a "Web Developer" because he had once designed a website for a friend.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
I agree. The point though is that this exists for both onshore and offshore asset protection plans. The point is: Yes, a judge might fuck you regardless, but the point is to have the law on your side. If you have a properly set-up trust then the law will be on your side. That trust should be offshore because the judge can't issue orders seizing assets. He can only issue orders directing the guy to repatriate them. In a properly set-up trust the guy has no ability to, which hopefully keeps him out of jail.
Yes of course, but I still don't see why this is relevant. Everyone seems to be arguing against setting up a trust because a judge might flaut the law and be a total prick. got it. No asset protection plan can fully predict against a judge who operates outside of the law. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do what you can to have the law on your side.
MartialWay 10y ago
The law ain't on your side. The law is trying to redistribute your assets, you're trying to stop them.
Except this is simply not true in Family Court. Judge can order you to come up "X dollars a week or you go to jail". How you come up with it is your problem.
Family Court routinely jails people for not paying with assets that never existed, nevermind difficult to access. You're making the classic mistake of attempting to apply common sense to Family Court.
Everyone seems to be arguing against setting up a trust because a judge might flaut the law and be a total prick.
Strawman, I'm not even arguing against setting up a trust, I'm arguing that you should have a realistic perception of it's limitations and the common tools used by Family Court.
Second, if you move to a country that has a law for 90 lashes if convert from their religion, and a judge give your coworker 90 lashes for converting, he's not flouting the law, he's actually enforcing it. In the US, the law wants to redistribute your assets, and can toss you in jail (without a trial in my state). It's meant to be a terror weapon...and it is.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
OK, and so it is better to have a properly set up asset protection plan than it is not to.
Please re-read what I said. I said a judge can't seize your assets. I did not say that a judge can not order to you to come up with X dollars per week. Your criticism is not a criticism of offshore trusts. Your criticism is a criticism of any/all asset protection. This criticism in no way takes away from the fact that you are better off with a properly set up offshore asset protection plan than not.
I am not making any mistake. Again, what you are saying in no way says you shouldn't have an offshore asset protection plan. What you SEEM to be saying is "just throw your hands up in the air and give up". Nothing that you have said takes away that you ought to have an offshore asset protection plan.
When did I say you should not have a realistic perception of it's limitations?
I never said otherwise. In fact, I am not sure what we are arguing about.
MartialWay 10y ago
Well, a good part of it has been you arguing with the Strawman you invented.
Pardon my snark, your comments have been mostly very intelligent, knowledgable and educational, I'm just trying not to ignore the 300lb gorilla in the room. If your high school basketball team is going against a monster 7 foot center that makes most of their plays, and you've got got a perfect game plan to deal with all their players except him...he's probably still dropping 40 points a game on you.
Palmer_Cortlandt 10y ago
I don't recall inventing a straw-man. I thought that was you.
Good2Go5280 10y ago
Nothing good can come of admitting to infidelity. Nothing.
rebuildingMyself 10y ago
Unless you're the wife who cheated. You still get your beta bux via divorce-rape, and can even hamster it as his fault for your slipping (not enough attention, etc)
tedcase 10y ago
don't get married
Marriage has almost no benefit to the person with the higher income
I wish this could be put in bold and double sized.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
I made $1740 a month gross, having two kids stuck me with $1000 a month in support. You make much more than me and paid less support while having three kids. I was military and it left me living in my car and crashing on couches. There was no way in hell I was going to tell them when I was promoted, because they would have simply raised the support to 68% or more which is allowed by state law.
The point is, you could afford a lawyer that was willing to fight for you, I couldn't. I had to take out a loan to pay mine. that was 14 years ago. Three years ago I hired a female lawyer to switch custody of my youngest, fix some shit the state fucked up, and she screwed me over.
End point, never get married. There are no unicorns, the laws are designed to fuck you and reward her. You're not special, it will happen to you as easy as he and I.
rp_divorced 10y ago
I'm sorry that happened to you. Your support payment is outrageous.
The $800 I payed was only temporary. It is much higher now that the divorce is final.
I could do another long post on divorce lawyers but it wouldn't be fitting for this sub.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
I only have until April or May then I am done paying her. I can't wait to get all my income, it will be the first time since 2001.
30303030303030 10y ago
That patriarchy and oppressed women...
Fuck me. This is horrible. I feel embarrassed I ever whine.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
I was oppressing the hell out of her since she left, because her receiving $1500 a month because of me should be criminal, it should have been over $5000 a month so my kids might have gotten something new occasionally. I just couldn't earn that much, so I was oppressing her something terrible.
tsotha 10y ago
Right at the top of the "Lessons Learned" section you should put "Never, ever, marry a woman with a Women's Studies degree. The type of person who signs up for that major will never make a good wife.
Cyralea 10y ago
Worse, that kind of woman is trained on how to make your existence a living hell. May as well rename the course to Marital-Friction Studies.
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
Blowjobs, a clean house, and dinner on the table is the bare minimum reasonable services the SOHM should be able to provide. Anything less than this unreasonable. Interesting how the therapist takes her side in the face of a totally reasonable demand!
trudatness 10y ago
I was a 35 y/o bartender/waiter/computer tech and my divorce cost me $250K which I am still paying out on. You didn't end up in jail, I did. Not saying you got off easy, but it could have been worse.
To summarize and paraphrase your entire story - when women get married they often think is full license to treat you like shit. They have you locked in and believe you exist for their benefit. It's solipsism. Your emotional state is not a concern outside her ability to manipulate you into giving her what she wants.
This is a part of the game these cunts play. They abuse you emotionally. If they can control your emotions, they can control you.
They push you to the brink of sanity where you have one of two choices - fold like 7 high poker hand, become utterly servile and completely capitulate your free will - or - seek relief outside the marriage to regain your manhood and self esteem.
The former will give you daily access for your children and the latter will give you chance to stave off a life of being broken and depressed.
If you were anything like me, I tried like hell to do the former, but finally the excrutiating madness of daily life drove me to the latter.
When you ultimately recoil away from your asshole spouse and into the latter choice, they completely lose their shit and enter a vow of lifelong hatred against you, because you had the audacity to not stay in a nightmare of a marriage with a spouse who had zero concern for your happiness and well being.
My ex-wife told me she never wanted to marry me in the first place, but only did so out of obligation, but yet she loathes me over our failed marriage. It makes no sense. But, then again it does make sense when you understand that they see it from a perspective of it being all about them. Narcissism.
You and I we handled our misery wrong. We cheated. We just couldn't take it anymore. We were in miserable, loveless marriages. We were long suffering and were desperate for something to salvage what little self-respect we had left.
We let ourselves get brow beat until something had to give. Why? Because that's what we thought we were supposed to do. We didn't know how to draw proper boundaries and deploy dread. We didn't know how to valuate ourselves properly. We put the happiness our our marriages into the hands of people who had severe narcissistic personality disorders.
We paid the fucking price.
Now... We have learned.
Rise from the ashes like a phoneix brother. The worst of it is behind you.
PlanB_pedofile 10y ago
My marriage was approaching the cheating zone. Things were spiraling out of control and it was my own doing. The husband is the captain and I'm ramming this ship into ground. I began looking.... I ended up fucking my ex wife (2nd time married guy)
It was great. God damn best awesome sex. Kinda put in perspective what all that previous marriage was about was just sex and when sex dried up, we didn't have anything else. Luckily I was a redpill reader at the time and I told the exwife that we can fuck, but don't go falling in love with me. (She's on the okcupid carousel). Our fling lasted 4 months as I returned her texts less and less plus she found another money bags that she's trying to convince to raise her two kids.
I began to look inward and deeper into the redpill on mostly endgame. Endgame isn't talked about often here. I did the marriage consoling but with a church pastor. Being biblical, he was traditional in what a husband and wife should be. She was raised religious with conservative traditional parents so she swallowed much of the advice well. It was more on my end. I was failing as a husband because I wasn't leading. I had to step up my game in all areas.
A side hobby of mine is model photography so I'm frequently talking, networking, and working with hot 22 year olds. I don't game any of the models because that will land me on a shit list in the industry, but I have developed a few friendships and connections with a few on various social levels.
This was me pulling dread game. Wife knew about my hobby and I clue her in everything. I began to develop an abundance mentality. I wasn't afraid of divorce. Wife knows I have options, plus even if I'm single for 3 years I'll be fine and happy as a clam while she'll be alone and miserable.
Redpill clued me in more on her teenage maturity. I treated her like a teenager. Using punishment/reward system. She would get praise when she cleans the house, anger when she doesn't. I make the plans. I stopped asking her what to do and instead I began to say "Let's do this". I made plans that will make me happy and stuck with them. My leadership has really began to grow.
My wife's problems were my doing. I wasn't leading her. Wasn't training her nor reward or discipline. It really is like dealing with a 14 year old at times but as a husband and a man, I need to lead by example.
RAL9000 10y ago
That's a big Truth in there. Thank you for pointing it out.
rp_divorced 10y ago
I'm happy you made it through. Keep moving forward.
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lesbianDREAMS 10y ago
How do you tell apart the women with narcissistic personality disorders from the 'normal' women?
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Birdoftruth 10y ago
Check out Dr. Paul Dobransky's MindOS program. Teaches you how to develop as well as screen character qualities. Is expensive but can be downloaded from places on the internet.
Basically the gist of a woman's personality can captured in how good of boundaries she has. Picture a Big imaginary circle with all of you inside of it. Inside this circle is your personality, values, emotions, and reptillian instincts. A woman with a good boundary has a solid circle and while she may have shitty days or thoughts of fucking other people (we all have this), because she has a good boundary you don't need to worry about cheating or bad displacement of emotions. This boundary protects no only what is inside her from leaking out into the environment, but also protection from elements of the environment from leaking in. Which means, just because Mr. Alpha at the work place works with her everyday doesnt mean she is going to be seduced by him.
But your narcissist has several holes in her boundary. Ultimately, a hole in a boundary is the inability to say no (to others or herself) or to hear no in a situation. Obviously she will not come out and say "Yes, I am liable to cheat on you" You have to pick up on this by detecting the holes in her boundary. Does she complain a lot? This means negative energy of the environment enters her boundary and is displaced on you. Does she have entitlement issues like pussy pass (not to be confused with preferences)? Inability to hear no. Does she have a high partner count at an early age with little amount of relationships? This is more of a fault on her behalf in the courtship process (lacks potential of a wife)
This Subreddit would have you believe every girl is going into a relationship with a modus operandi to treat a man like shit, cheat, and take his assets. Its a small population that is truly this sinister and if they think like this, you can screen this out. Two problems. if you notice (not referring to OP here) majority of the guys here that have had this happen to were really young when they got married and don't know how to screen for this kind of stuff (while also not being developed at the same time). The other problem is confirmation bias due to the guys this subreddit attracts.
I can make a bigger post on this if someone wants but it's helped me have good relationships
lesbianDREAMS 10y ago
Dude I would love a post on this. If you go ahead with it please let me know when its posted.
Also that part about confirmation bias is becoming more and more rampant with the increasing amount of users on this sub.
[deleted] 10y ago
In the OPs post at least, he very clearly ignored a huge red flag right in the beginning - a marriage ultimatum. Any chick who says "marry me now or I'm gone" obviously has her eyes on something more than just you.
cheekybarstard 10y ago
Yup. This times 1000. Sorry dude.
tsudonimh 10y ago
At the risk of making a joke that the normal ones are narcissistic, you can't really. Not 100%.
How they were raised is a big factor. The kind of friends she has is another.
My wife was raised by her father and 3 brothers after her mother died when she was in primary school. She is as close to thinking like a guy as a woman can get, as she wasn't permitted to get away with shit as she grew up. She is disdainful of the sort of behavior that gets discussed here.
[deleted] 10y ago
This, so much. If you wouldn't date a girl's friends then don't date her. She might be a "nice girl" but if most of her friends are party girls and sluts then what do you think she's like when you're not around?
youreunbelieveable 10y ago
Good job buddy! I just closed my divorce too it cost me a quarter million worth every penny
commandliner 10y ago
annnnd this is why im staying single!
commandliner 10y ago
the hell with my family telling me i need more "game " to get bitches ,i excell at that game fools!
TVTestPattern 10y ago
I posted this to another thread.
As soon as the judge found out what kind of money I make, it was on like Donkey Kong. Nothing else mattered... not how much mom makes, or the circumstances of our respective homes. My (female) judge saw she could award the max support and bam... done. Not only that, but my ex claimed we were split 6 months before we actually split and was awarded back support ($10k). Then almost 1 year after the judgement she went back to the judge claiming I never paid the "back" support, despite the court seizing that money from my employer. Without batting an eye, the court ordered me to pay it again, plus interest and penalties. When my attorney challenged this ruling my judge threatened me with contempt including jail time. So I paid the fake back support including interest and penalties, then did it again... 25K. Add that to the monthly support for the last 5 years, and attorney fees (mine & hers) and where am I today? $155,000 and counting gentlemen. After all is said and done I'll have paid this bitch $350,000 by the time my daughter is 18. Of course this doesn't include all the "other" expenses along the way... the insurance, tuition, vehicles, clothing, etc... easily $500k. This sad situation is why it's the max... the judge could care fucking less about my daughter's welfare... but she's getting paid yo. You have been warned...
the_real_chronos 10y ago
Sickening and disgusting. Have you considered leaving the country?
thibit 10y ago
Good luck. One of my family's friends was denied his passport due to outstanding support debt.
[deleted] 10y ago
rescind citizenship, move to whatever shitty third world country will have you, be happy.
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lesbianDREAMS 10y ago
I've always been curious as to which countries have the best divorce laws in favour of men.
vandaalen 10y ago
Definetly the ones who also practice the sharia...scnr.
the_real_chronos 10y ago
Suddenly Islam doesn't seem so repulsive.
[deleted] 10y ago
Blue Pill me really hated the way women are portrayed in the Koran. But now? There's actually a lot of wisdom in there about female behavior and what it takes to find and keep a good one.
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Misterlulz 10y ago
Really? I didn't know that a judge could just throw you in jail for simply wanting to appeal a court decision?
TVTestPattern 10y ago
Then you have not been to Conroe Texas.
Misterlulz 10y ago
Wow. Guess I won't be going to Texas anytime soon . . .
TVTestPattern 10y ago
Just don't get married here. Well... or anywhere...
notmyuglyside 10y ago
Judge's name? Considering a move to Conroe or Frisco.
TVTestPattern 10y ago
Frisco is better... Conroe is a fucking pit. That would be this man-hating cunt.
[deleted] 10y ago
Wow, quite the piece of work, that one.
Just another reason it's godawful stupid we elect judges in this state. The most boneheaded, incompetent, and corrupt judges get into office because they can convince a plurality of the voting public to like them.
TVTestPattern 10y ago
Oh yes... she is a nightmare. She sentenced a guy caught with meth to LIFE in prison. I'm not defending meth, but sending a 20 something to Huntsville for life is pretty brutal.
The attorney I hired required a $20k retainer and is friends of hers. Took almost 2 years to litigate... included mandatory hair & urine testing and supervised visitation (the kind with an armed guard) plus a mental health evaluation all of which lasted for the duration. Didn't require any evidence of drug or alcohol abuse or mental problems.
Funny coincidence... the drug testing, mental evaluation and visitation companies are all very expensive & within walking distance of the courthouse.
Hmmm...
Worth noting... this was a simple custody case... No police involvement & we were not married.
[deleted] 10y ago
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robesta 10y ago
Agreed. This would be a great sidebar addition.
MrMagwitch 10y ago
.
rp_divorced 10y ago
I missed my chance for this setup. Don't miss yours.
Unfiltered_Soul 10y ago
The things you would imagine while going through something like this will blow peoples virgin minds.
pabloe168 10y ago
How do you set that up legally speaking?
JP_Whoregan 10y ago
This is so succinct, it should be driven into the brain of every American male before they get any delusions about walking down the aisle. And you're right, she absolutely gaslighted the shit out of you.
Women know exactly what the fuck they are doing when they turn off access to their body in a marriage and start denying sex. If women actually had agency or a shred of honor, they would just be honest, file for divorce, take her half of the shit, and leave. But they don't do that. They KNOW DAMN WELL you will eventually seek out sex where you can get it, then BAM! "Marital Infidelity", it's divorce rape time. She can't get that lawyer on the phone fast enough.
It would be absolutely clever if it wasn't so sinister. Anyhow, at least you avoided the lifetime alimony. Thanks for sharing.
manwhy 10y ago
Women absolutely have agency. Not over their emotions or their actions, really, but you can bet your ass they'll kick and scream if they think their agency to choose where, when, why, how, and who they fuck is in jeopardy. Hell, that's what marriage once did--remove the wife's sexual agency!
HULKx 10y ago
I was worse off after getting divorced... Same amount of bills and nobody splitting them with me.
Jillianmd777 10y ago
I don't understand women like this. When your man wants to fuck, how can you not want to? Like, sex is fucking great. I wish my boyfriend would let me give him blowjobs more. God. I cannot understand women who don't find happiness in making the one they love happy. What the fuck is wrong with them? It's mutually fucking profitable, you stupid bitch.
I don't know if this qualifies as a rant post, but I just cannot fucking understand what possesses a woman to act without dignity, honor, and pride in her relationship. Why do women lose such respect for their men? I just don't get why this happens. How can you love a man without respecting him?
Or maybe they don't, and there are just a lot of cold-hearted, mean-spirited women out there who don't care about anything other than themselves.
JP_Whoregan 10y ago
It's actually a topic discussed often here. It basically goes like this:
Woman likes man. Maybe she likes his rugged good looks, maybe it's the tone in his voice, the way he dresses, the "I know what you're thinking" look in his eyes when he looks at her. Who knows? But for whatever reason, woman says to herself "I'm going to be fucking this man, and soon". Women, remember, are the gatekeepers of sex.
But over the course of time, be it weeks, months, or years, woman starts trying to "betafy" her man. See, woman is nothing if not pragmatic, and she knows that the very things that attracted HER to her man could (and will) also attract other women. Woman does not like this. So she starts a slow process, albiet with complicit cooperation from her man, of turning him into something less desirable. Poker night with the boys? Romcoms on the couch is better, right? Saturdays at the beach drinking cold ones? Come shopping with me instead, baby! 5 days at the gym? Isn't that a little much when you could be spending more time with ME!?! Don't you think you should be doing more household chores, honey?!?!
Then over time, what woman fails to realize, is the very things she's doing to secure her long term provisioning is also simultaneously reducing HER ATTRACTION to him as well. Who wants to give blowjobs to a loser who's slowly putting on weight, pushing a vacuum cleaner around the house, and holding his woman's handbags at the mall? Woman starts finding man a pathetic excuse of his former self.
So eventually, woman starts seeing her man more like one of her woman friends and less like the man she was thrilled to have marathon sex sessions with on a Sunday afternoon.
And through it all, the man is truly oblivious as to why his woman won't fuck him anymore. I mean, he's been doing everything his woman has asked him to do, right? I do half the chores, I cook, I clean, and my woman won't fuck me!! Why?!?!
It's because he's become an emasculated bitch in his woman's eyes. And women don't find emasculated bitches "hot". They treat them like, well...bitches.
tl;dr - women create what they think they want their man to be, then become disgusted by their creation.
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KissTheBridesmaid 10y ago
This is a very good explanation. I should add to this that this ‘betafication’ process as you call it is not primarily to avoid other women becoming attracted to him. Women do this to check if their man’s spine is intact. The example: ‘why play Poker with the boys, stay home with me’ is a subconscious fitness test.
Remember, women do not want to win arguments, they want to be with someone who wins the argument and refuses to be a puppy dog. Most men fail these tests. We are taught that to make a women happy you must give in to her needs. Unfortunately what a woman thinks she needs or says she needs is more often than not the opposite of what she actually needs.
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Marsupian 10y ago
I don't think it's always an active process like this.
I think it's often just an instinct. When a women is with a guy for a longer time she will get some doubts on whether he really is as manly as she first thought. To verify his manliness she starts throwing out the occasional fitness test. Ask him to do petty shit, ask him to make small sacrifices for her and being a bit more disobedient. What she is looking for here is to be put straight, to be called back in line and for her man to show his dominance. Problem is the guy in question is fed bluepill nonsense his whole life and rolls over like a little puppy. Que dead bedroom and a drawn out divorce.
I could be wrong, maybe women do generally try to turn their men into puppies to reduce attractiveness and safeguard their paycheck. It's probably a bit of both mixed with their own warped view of what a happy marriage looks like due to modern media and education.
RedPillDad 10y ago
I've lived this and it's never too late to get your mojo back. Better still, always hold onto your nuts (maintain a masculine frame).
♂
trpbot 10y ago
Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/JP_Whoregan by RedPillDad. ^[History]
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Jillianmd777 10y ago
That's horrible. The moment anyone tries to change their partner things are bad. If a woman is insecure enough to think that just because other women are attracted to her man, that she has to change him? then she shouldn't be dating anyone. She's too immature and not ready for that. It's gross to believe that would ever be okay.
I will admit I felt those insecurities about my boyfriend in the beginning. And I realized the only thing I can change is myself. So if I was insecure because an old female friend was pretty and fit, then I would diet and work out and be prettier and fitter than her. That actually ended up in me being a total fucking hiking junkie (which in turn helped eliminate my insecurities), and I can say with confidence that I don't care if pretty girls talk to my boyfriend. He's not with them. He's with me. He comes home to me every night. He wakes up to me every morning. He helps me build my hearthstone decks, not them. He takes me to France, not them. There's something about me that he loves, and all I can do is be the best me I can and have the discipline to follow through.
KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
The worst part of this is that these changes are almost all completely unconscious. Women have better connectivity between the brain hemispheres than men do, but much worse between the cerebral cortex and the limbic system, hence the nuclear powered [rationalization] hamster.
Jillianmd777 10y ago
I don't think it's happening to me. I find true happiness in pleasure in subscribing myself to the slave part of a master slave relationship. He doesn't know he's master, he just does it. It's natural to him to be dominant. So I just practice my submission all day; but it comes naturally to me, too. I love deferring to him; it's just part of who I am. I don't intend to, but I do, by nature, defer to men around me. It's not something that I am general conscious of. My boyfriend was the one who initially pointed it out to me. But I find really happiness in it.
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
Yes it is horrible and as conscious and conscientious as you are, you yourself have already started this process unconsciously. Very few women are even aware of the constant shit tests that they throw and betafication is a slow process. The good news it is not inevitable and the woman being consciously aware of her nature helps- but the real key is the man's frame.
[deleted] 10y ago
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Jillianmd777 10y ago
Yeah, I guess. I mean, he doesn't really do these things anymore. I think he did them more to motivate me than to get me to stay attracted to him. I will never not be attracted to him. I still watch him naked like it's the first time. Excited and nervous. And admiring. I don't know. I just don't believe in taking anything for granted, least of all a significant other. You just shouldn't treat the person you love that way.
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kenatogo 10y ago
Last paragraph is absolutely accurate.
arrayay 10y ago
I think you found the answer.
Or maybe for most women cash and prizes is greater than love.
KasperskyEmployee 10y ago
Wanna get married?
please spare me oh bot overlord :(
Jillianmd777 10y ago
Haha. Thank you, but by the honor of my girlfriend status and station I will have to decline. What bot are you referring to, though?
The mythical downvote fairy?
YourKarmaMeansNothin 10y ago
Yeah, it's the last paragraph.
They don't fall in love with the MAN. They (that type of woman) fall in love with his money / social status etc etc.
Jillianmd777 10y ago
What horrible nasties. I hope they learn the error of their ways. :(
drfatpanda 10y ago
You're a rare breed. American culture and current society grows women in different ways. The modern feminist ideals have turned men into just tools of living life better.
Jillianmd777 10y ago
That's so horrible. That's not... That's not how things should be.
drfatpanda 10y ago
It is what it is. That's what I use trp for, to learn how to prevent myself from just becoming another tool for women (which I was completely before finding it), and to do what I can to change things for the future and my possible children.
[deleted] 10y ago
Welcome to The Red Pill. That's the entire point of the philosophy.
Jillianmd777 10y ago
No wonder all the basic bitches at /twox hate this sub. It threatens their basic bitch (aka shitty human being with shitty morals) way of life.
BoyMeetsHarem 10y ago
No offense, but you are obviously with a man you look up to and respect. He turns you on, makes you feel protected and supported, and probably gives you status with your social circle.
Things would be a lot different in your mind if you felt trapped in a relationship with someone you didn't look up to, who you felt was holding you back, and who made you feel embarrassed to be in public with or talk about with your friends. (OP: I'm not saying this directly applies to your post, it's just one possible example)
What if you felt stuck with someone who you felt lied to you? Tricked you into being with them by misrepresenting what kind of man they really were. Do you really think you would want to fuck someone you felt total resentment and revulsion towards? Would you really want to put that liar's dick in your mouth?
That's what post-wall women feel like after they have settled for someone they think is beneath them in the interest of financial security and domestic companionship. And it gets worse and worse because society tells those men to double down on being a supplicating wimp to try and make their unhappy wives happier. It's a vicious downward spiral.
Maybe not what happened in OP's situation exactly, but a very common scenario when husbands try to follow the "happy wife, happy life" mantra along the modern feminist script.
Jillianmd777 10y ago
I get that explains it a little better, if the woman feels lied to and this justifies her actions by that. It's still super fucked up, but it makes more sense.
I'm definitely with a man I respect and love. He's definitely alpha. He doesn't give me social status, though. I guess technically in that regard by society's stupid fucking standards he does the opposite. He's the smartest person I've ever met, but by society's standards I could be dating a doctor or a man that "provides(betabux?)." I find that stupid though. I make more money than him, but I don't care. He forces me to continue to better myself by his sheer awesomeness. I don't know. He was my first kiss when I was 13, and even though we dated other people before getting together when I was 18, it's always been him.
He just has so much charisma and the best bullshit meter. We've lived together for 5 years, been to Europe and road tripped together. He's just like the fucking best thing that's ever happened to me. He opens my mind and challenges me. And I like to think I challenge him.
I guess I subscribe to the idea that being a 50s housewife is ideal as fuck. Men and women should play to their strengths. And both should always Strive to be classy.
When women stop trying to be classy and elegant creatures, you get the trashy, narcissistic, money-grabbing sluts. At least, maybe that's the case. That's what id like to think anyways. That those women simply lost their way because they didn't learn the proper way to woman. That it's okay to want to be submissive, to enjoy a relationship where your husband/boyfriend calls the shots. That you should be a good, generous, giving partner in bed and out. That giving him a blowjob doesn't demean you.
I just wish women would fucking learn that feminism is teaching you to lose respect for yourself and your significant other, and that it should be abandoned. Because if you think it's okay to treat a man like OP's ex wife treated him, you are a fucked up woman. It goes against what it means to be a woman.
KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
Are you on /r/RedPillWomen ?
Jillianmd777 10y ago
I recently joined over there! I commented on an introduce yourself thread, and nobody commented. :(
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Maxxxz1994 10y ago
Your man is lucky to have a woman like you.
cashmoney_x 10y ago
There's her end goal. "Look at how different I am" validation. Trp equivalent of the "I love videogames" chicks.
fl3wy 10y ago
I am so grateful for two things. One is the internet, which makes discussions like these possible. The second one is people like OP, that take time to share these warnings. I was going to end up so Beta Bucks if it wasn't for guys like you. Thank you.
theredpillacct 10y ago
Same, I was raised with the whole mentality that i should get a job and pay for my wife. I love you guys, thank you for opening my eyes.
cover20 10y ago
But if you hadn't gotten married you probably would not have 3 kids, nor would they be fairly well raised.
So you paid, but you got also. By saying "don't get married" are you willing to say "don't have kids"?
rp_divorced 10y ago
I find your comment loaded with assumptions and stereotypes. There's no sense in playing the what if game, my life is what it is. My post was meant to educate others so they can make their own choice.
Why not? I find this statement silly.
It's not a requirement to be married to have kids. Yes, it opens you up to a whole different way of getting screwed as an unmarried father but its a valid choice.
PrisonerOfLife 10y ago
Jesus, the next time I have the urge to get married (which will likely be NEVER after reading anecdotes like this), I think I'll take up cocaine instead.
rp_divorced 10y ago
might not be cheaper, but it would be more fun!
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lesbianDREAMS 10y ago
Now your just rubbing it in to OP
Unfiltered_Soul 10y ago
...but then youll be hooked for life.... again and eventually it will get worst.
Panzer_Geist 10y ago
It's not crystal meth. I do blow every now and then - I can have months of dry spells in between. It's nowhere near as addictive as Hollywood makes it out to be. It actually makes me extremely productive.
niczar 10y ago
Addiction is extremely dependent on genetics. For instance I know I basically can't get addicted to alcohol or possibly even opiates because I have an otherwise fucked up brain chemistry (hypersomnia) whereby downers make me extremely sleepy very fast. Similarly asians are much less likely to become alcoholic because they get sick from it rather quickly.
So why you're lucky enough to not easily become addicted to meth, it's very likely many people consuming the same amounts you do would.
Panzer_Geist 10y ago
Daymn you must be snorting some exclusive Colombian snow laced with unicorn horns off a mafia boss' wife if your blow is that expensive.
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elevul 10y ago
Min character limit. If your post is shorter than x characters the TRP bot deletes it automatically. So he padded his post with insults to the bot so it doesn't get deleted.
TheGodWalrus 10y ago
The bot auto deletes posts under a set amount of characters.
DexterousRichard 10y ago
I don't get it. Lots of my comments are short and don't get deleted. Yours didn't.
__KnighT__ 10y ago
That guy probably overestimated the character threshold.
TheGodWalrus 10y ago
Maybe not banned. Maybe just flagged. Either way, it's a bot that moderates small comments.
ioncloud9 10y ago
I guess thats the price of kids these days.
whitey_male 10y ago
You may as well cut your balls off if you get married. Its simply a prison sentence under a female warden.
bugman7492 10y ago
The therapist was disgusted with you? Hah, so only her desires matter to the professional comforter?
alarmclock000 10y ago
As a young guy who recently swallowed TRP, thank you for sharing. This is all very helpful.
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Average_Black_Man 10y ago
Prenups are thrown out more often than not. Not worth the risk
cover20 10y ago
You can't have a prenup regarding CS or other issues regarding kids. But other prenups are generally honored from what I've read.
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lesbianDREAMS 10y ago
What is gaslighting exactly? I've heard of it before
rp_divorced 10y ago
gaslighting
lesbianDREAMS 10y ago
Oh righto. How did your wife gaslight you?
rp_divorced 10y ago
The most common way was when I'd try to bring up concerns about the relationship she would begin telling me all the ways I fell short as a husband. Hear it enough and you start to believe it.
Revel4ti0n 10y ago
Thank you, and i highliy appreciate the strory you've shared with us and your experience.
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watersign 10y ago
damn, sorry to hear this. im living my life for me!
MagisterD 10y ago
Some days I'm glad that I'm both single and sterile....
rp_divorced 10y ago
Me too. I just did things in the wrong order.
ClownBaby90 10y ago
wow you're really a piece of shit.
rp_divorced 10y ago
Lol. I'll play along. Why exactly am I a piece of shit?
alarmclock000 10y ago
You're a piece of shit because you let someone suck your dick because your wife has been emotionally abusing you and financially raping you for years.
wait wut
Misogynist-bydefault 10y ago
I saw beta to the end. Where is the red pill you said you took.
rp_divorced 10y ago
That's probably a better question for the plates I'm spinning.
we_r_legun1993 10y ago
Why did you have to pay her lawyer? Was that part of the deal that you made? I'm kind of confused.
rp_divorced 10y ago
I agreed to it in order to get the deal done. I ran the risk of paying alimony for the rest of my life if we went to court. At least this way I knew the limits of the damage.
[deleted] 10y ago
A smart play from the looks of it.
Rougepellet 10y ago
I'm at least a decade away from marriage and every time i read these divorce rape posts, the thought of ever getting married seems to get farther and farther away. The guy could make 95% of the income in the marriage and he'd have to pull out tens or hundreds of thousands from his ass to cover costs and pay the wife for making his life miserable. Fuck that shit.
3rt41 10y ago
Man i am sorry to hear what happened to you.
It's a fucking war that the majority of us don't even know is taking place, until your face gets smashed by a flying bullet.
[deleted] 10y ago
Any guy that sits back and observes his friends and their actions right around 26-28 will tell you that. Once 30 or so hits, it gets messy.
chairmobile 10y ago
Another thing. Any woman who majors in women's studies or in fact anything non technical is not worth a shred of your time outside of fucking.
Worthless ltr material, not only because they will never get a job to support you but because anyone going into those fields is dumb to begin with.
williamwilliam2 10y ago
I married a woman with a technical degree. Doesn't improve the man's odds, I know.
chairmobile 10y ago
Well ain't saying tech degree = good, just that non tech is bad.
8jh 10y ago
Not dumb but just intent on being lazy. They know there's no real prospects in the field so it suggests that they intend to leech off their current or future life partner
DexterousRichard 10y ago
What?
Just because they are not educated as highly as you doesn't mean they want to be a leech.
Haven't we talked at extreme length in the red pill community about the income dynamic between men and women? You want a woman to support you? Good luck maintaining that LTR long term.
8jh 10y ago
But they are educated highly, just in a field that isn't relevant. So irrelevant, actually, that you can make the argument that they intended to live their life on easy mode. What woman who wants to live an easy life is going to just sit back and support a man and not expect rettibution if the gravy train stops flowing?
DexterousRichard 10y ago
Yes, we're just talking about two different types of women. One type already is determined to leech. The second type may make less or want to be a housewife, but if she is decent and attracted, could make a great LTR.
[deleted] 10y ago
I think they just decided to get a degree in something that interested them, because a degree = $$$ right? Sadly that's a common disbelief among this generation.
neveragoodtime 10y ago
It has nothing to do with education. I'd date a high school graduate over a college graduate with a degree in literature. Taking on a loan for $50,000 for a five year career before her promotion to SAHM is just dumb. Sure, a woman could work while the babies are in day care, this isn't a mysogynyst sub, but the would you want to have kids with a woman who puts her job before your kids? The more men wise up, the farther the marriage rate will drop.
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blarggggggggggg 10y ago
Man I regret so much getting married. I really think we're headed for divorce and I'm fucking terrified at all the money my wife is going to leech from me. Am an so disgusted with myself and afraid for my financial future. Marriage is a bad joke. Thanks for a great post.
rp_divorced 10y ago
Every day that passes will mean more money you have to give her. You can't change the past so if your marriage is done, get out now, take the hit and move on.
If you bought a stock and it tanked, holding it on the hope that it will rebound is not a very sound strategy.
blarggggggggggg 10y ago
Thanks for the real talk. We have such an entwined life in so many facets, I'm in a really tough place and have spent the past year trying to redirect this relationship back to positive.
You're right though and I'm aware of sunk-cost fallacy. I logically know I'm probably just hamstering myself. I have talked to a divorce attorney, my family and my councilor - struggling to build the psychological momentum I need to do what needs to be done. If I could remove my emotions from this decision I would be gone yesterday.
Posts like yours and this sub overall have been a big help.
cover20 10y ago
If there are no kids, it's relatively simple. But it's not obvious that your obligations increase by staying longer in the marriage. Try to "trick" her by having her get a job (which would reduce your alimony) and stuff like that.
OP's wife was trying to game him this way, well done in not falling for it. But women don't think of everything either, and they may not feel accurately that you've given up and are trying to game them. So be strategic.
myotheraccountisa911 10y ago
I don't want to be that guy but fuck off. Fuck right off. Even as the enormous pussy I am I'd tell her to get lost, get her stuff and go.
Scoundrel_ 10y ago
A battle-ax in the making... Being with you is a "waste of time." No "I enjoy your company," "Spending time together is fun," etc. This college junior demands that the relationship must lead to marriage — otherwise YOU Mister are wasting MY time!
neveragoodtime 10y ago
I think this is somehow comforting to women who take the beta bucks route out. I'm not in love with my husband, but at least I have these nice shoes. The last satisfied they are with the AF, the more they milk the BB.
I cannot emphasize this enough, do not settle for being the beta bucks in a relationship. Women may have two sexual strategies, but ever since no fault divorce marriage 2.0 men only have one. If you find yourself as BB, there is nothing you can do but eject, work on yourself, and find a girl that sees you as AF. BB used to be the strategy only of desperate women, but now, the primary strategy is to get the house, the kids, the divorce, the alimony, and then look for AF.
Incubuns 10y ago
Can we please not buy into this pop psychology bullshit? The idea that shopping is EVER "therapy" is just a meme created by women to give a patina of justification to spending joint marital funds on things they want. That's all it is - I want it, I bought it, how do I justify it?
cheekybarstard 10y ago
Yes, it's not therapy, it's just a fucked up coping mechanism for not having a interesting life.
Jillianmd777 10y ago
except studies have found an endorphin release the moment women shop and swipe their card, giving evidence and credence that retail therapy can be an addiction much like for adrenaline junkies and nymphos. They become addicted to the act and the chemical response of their own bodies to it.
no_face 10y ago
I believe its oxytocin, not endorphin for shopping
FLFTW16 10y ago
Good posts in this set of comments. We should refer to it as "shopping addiction" and acknowledge that the gynocentric superculture erroneously labels it "therapy."
malmn 10y ago
Bingo! My ex used shopping therapy every time things went rough between us. She even called it shopping therapy. The good thing was that it was her money not mine.
Incubuns 10y ago
Everything that feels good releases endorphins. That's what "feeling good" is. We can call it "retail therapy" and consider it acceptable when we can also call punching people in the face for hamstering frivolous spending "stupid cunt punching therapy". I mean, it's releasing endorphins, right?
Jillianmd777 10y ago
I didn't say it should be accepted. Please don't put words in my mouth. Only that it is possible for individuals to become addicted to it. You don't see me saying it's okay because it's an addiction? That's like saying heroin is cool because it's not they're fault. It's not cool. It shouldn't be acceptable.
liljenz0 10y ago
Sadly the latter is hardly legal
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Gavlan_Wheel 10y ago
When someone makes something up and then tries to convince you that it's real.
"Remember when I made dinner for you?" "No." "You must be getting senile. I remember it clearly."
whitey_male 10y ago
So this "patriarchy" that feminists keep on talking about, ie that your average male schmuck and everyone like him is oppressing women, is epic gas lighting. Its exactly the same as the Nazis blaming Jews for every single problem in the world.
rockymountainoysters 10y ago
One of the most marvelous words in the English language.
rp_divorced 10y ago
gaslighting
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[deleted] 10y ago
In Canada (when last I inquired) a prenup gets tossed the moment a kid is born.
Otherwise it's kid of silly to have lawyers fight over it when you can get an accountant to write up the fair market value of all the assets the day before you get married. Any gain is divided between the 2 parties. Shit like alimony though is a bit harder but if you're a CEO of a company and you marry a stripper then you've got bigger problems than alimony.
youreunbelieveable 10y ago
More prenups are thrown out than enforced
__KnighT__ 10y ago
This is untrue. Most prenups are honored as long as it is done properly - some time before the marriage and under the guidance of legal counsel for both sides.. Please do not post misinformation.
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YourKarmaMeansNothin 10y ago
I still don't understand how anybody rationalises having the man pay $??? per month - and the rest - to the woman. Surely, if the argument is the woman needs it for the kids then the man should have the fucking kids.
Uck, I wish every man in the world could read this story. I'm just glad you didn't leave your own house when she told you to, that woulda made me sick.
neveragoodtime 10y ago
Exactly this. Most men could afford a full time nanny for the amount they pay the ex to watch the kids. All divorces need to start with 50/50 custody, which can only be given up voluntarily by one parent. It's easier for the courts to take away a divorced dad's kids than a single mother drug addict. If the wife wants to claim he's criminally abusive, have her prove that in a court of law where it belongs, not a kangaroo family court.
rebuildingMyself 10y ago
Funny how NOW actively fought against this kind of thinking. Women are oppressed, except when they aren't.
IAmTheIlluminatiAMA 10y ago
My friend had tons of character witnesses to vouch for him, excellent job reviews, was intelligent, well spoken and dressed nice for court, took regular drug tests for work, had proof his ex wife would leave for days at a time to smoke crack and fuck other men, had video of her smoking crack one room away from her son, and the bitch even admitted to the judge in court that two days prior she had smoked crack and the judge STILL gave temporary custody to the woman until the end of the trial. Even with all of that he barely got majority custody and had to continue to fight her for years. He finally just started paying her off to leave lawyers out of it since it was cheaper.
neveragoodtime 10y ago
If genders were reversed, that father would never see his kids again. The math in my case worked out to paying the ex $100/month more for each additional day. ( 15 days = $400/month, 19 days = $800/month ). Of course she fought me over every single day with my kids. So yea, I could get a nanny for 1 day per week for $400/month. More dads have to start doing this. It's not worth it to pay your ex to have more time with your kids. My biggest mistake was to let her pay for the day care, which she then claimed for more child support. Now I pay her half the day care to pay to day care whether she pays it or not.
kick6 10y ago
but, but, but. Women don't do this! All they want is to get married and have a husband who splits things equally and they'll love them forever! /s
I just don't see how anyone can read this, and still believe that marriage isn't a huge risk. But I guess everybody thinks their snowflake specialprincess would never do that..
In the end, 25% of your salay to make the misery go away, while expensive, is fucking worth it.
SupALupRT 10y ago
Had a guy drop the "bombshell" on me that people are starting to realize marriage is a shitty deal for men. I smirked and said I could of told you that years ago. :[
Deano101 10y ago
lol reminds me of Dumb and Dumber: "We've landed on the moon?!"
Meknes88 10y ago
Thanks for sharing your story man!
Wheatspin 10y ago
Oh my god everything about this woman sickens me.
What boggles my mind is why does she deserve any of your money? She dug her own grave and now it's being filled with gold bars just because she's a woman.
IAmTheIlluminatiAMA 10y ago
The precedence for this was set back when women actually did contribute to the housework and take care of their man while he worked. Not only that but women's quality of life could truly suffer in the event of a divorce because she didn't have the same earning opportunities a man does. Now that we have spent two generations listening to and creating laws revolving around feeeeellllliiings, women can get away with doing jack shit and you are a piece of shit husband who is asking too much of her by expecting someone that sits at home all day to, you know, actually do stuff while the man works.
When my marriage was at it's worst my wife didn't work but would let dishes set for a week, food wrappers everywhere, all kinds of nasty shit, if I didn't clean it. When I calmly told her she was expected to actually contribute she hamstered so much shit about it being my fault and then her family hamstered a bunch of excuses for her. I was working a minimum of 14 hour days six days a week and even though she never cooked, cleaned, had sex with me, emotionally abused me and broke shit during angry outbursts, I was seen as a demanding husband. It worked because I was just too tired to fight back. Women are children. They will constantly test any boundaries you set for them and then be mad at you when you point out what they have done wrong.
Cyralea 10y ago
Just go over to any female-dominated sub and try throwing around the word 'obligation'. You literally could not get them to froth harder if you suggested that Hitler was the greatest force of good in the 20th century.
Western women are completely broken. They literally don't understand the concept of working towards something, everything has to be given to them on a silver platter.
IAmTheIlluminatiAMA 10y ago
I am not obligated to anything for you, shit lord! We have been oppressed for centuries, how about you do the god damn dishes?!?! This isn't the 1950s! Oh, wait...go into a STEM field where all the money is at? Lol no thanks I got my bachelors in Womyn's Studies with a minor in Cis to Transgender Intersex Communicational Language in the Mid Rennaissance. If it weren't for the patriarchy I would totally make more moneys than you. And I probably could have been in the NBA hall of fame if it weren't for people making fun of Womyn's Sports and oppressing me. I am beautiful on the inside and you should love me even though I gained 80 lbs. I eat because I am depressed because you are gone all the time! Just don't work so much! It's your fault I am fat, you abusive fucking bastard. Fuck you, cook your own god damned meals. Like I am your slave or something.
johnnight 10y ago
My friend complained recently that he has to do the vacuming when he comes back from work. His wife told him she is too tired from babysitting/playing with their single child :)
IAmTheIlluminatiAMA 10y ago
Because this generation of women are spoiled whores. I wished I would have found TRP before we got married. I will continue to post about it to educate younger men on the reality of marriage, though.
Xythar12 10y ago
Reading this was very... uplifting for myself that I started with the Red Pill early in life. I am sorry it took you 220k to find the Red Pill... but you are here now and probably the most happy you've ever been
Thanks for the advice!
cwschizzy 10y ago
Sorry it happened to you, but at least you're past it now. The past can serve as a great motivator.
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JP_Whoregan 10y ago
I'm 33 and my parents have just recently stopped bugging me with the "when are you gonna give us grandchildren" speech. I decided to be brutally honest with them, and I told them that "today's generation of American women are not respectable, and they have pitiful morals that aren't worth the investment of marriage."
I didn't say what I really wanted, which was "today's American women are trashy whores who aren't feminine, and are good for nothing more than being a cum dumpster", because my mother is basically the only woman on the planet I still have respect for.
Jillianmd777 10y ago
I think this generation of American women are mostly trashy whores who aren't feminine, but I want you to know there are still some out there who don't meet this sweeping generalization. Most of them, yeah. But there are some of us who believe in having integrity and respect while maintaining the elegance and class that should define femininity. There are still some who take their jobs as gatekeepers to sex seriously, and will "open the gates" as long as their man maintains his to commitment open, too.
JP_Whoregan 10y ago
Well, I'll grant you a little crack at a NAWALT, there. But I always refrain to my classic analogy when this topic is discussed, when someone invariably says "not all women are trashy whores".
Say I had 10 cages at the zoo, each of them with a ferocious tiger inside. Good looking tigers, too, strong, fast, all great specimens of the species. Now we've done some extensive behavioral studies, and we've come to conclude that, for the most part, there is a high probability that the tiger will maul you to death given the opportunity. However, we have determined that 2 of the tigers have demonstrated a docile streak, and have shown a passivity towards humans and won't maul you.
I'll pay you $5000 to climb into one of the tiger cages and hang out for 15 minutes. Are you getting in?
This is what many "RP outsiders" fail to understand about the concept of "AWALT". Of course, we're grown adults and we do know that "not all women are like that". But it's just safer, in today's day in age with the family court system the way it is, to assume that they are "all like that".
dantesrage13 10y ago
I work at a blood bank. We have whats called "universal precautions". It mean treating each blood product like its potentially infectious (even though its been tested). NABALT (not all bloods are like that), but always wear your gloves regardless.... thats how i see it... maybe we can use the term "universal precautions" in RP?
Jillianmd777 10y ago
Uh, I would probably get in because tigers are fucking cool, and it's so worth it man. But I also tend to have terrible discernment, and this is why I am so thankful for my boyfriend and his wisdom. He completes me: and helps me from doing stupid shit like trying to hang out with the animals that will kill me.
But on a serious note, I definitely get what you're saying here. I think if a woman proves herself otherwise, though, you should keep her. Put a ring (figuratively, you don't actually need to buy her shit, but I like to subscribe to olden time customs) on that gem of a woman because if you want a life partner who actually does the things I said, you shouldn't let them go.
But I get why a man would not want to jump in a relationship when most women seem to be crazy. This is probably why I have a hard time finding female friends of my own. I just don't get this basic bitch culture.
JP_Whoregan 10y ago
I'm sorry, the diagnosis is "basic bitch" lol. http://youtu.be/PaghIdSJKvQ
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heeb 10y ago
Oh, I would love for you to become my wife's friend :)
Jillianmd777 10y ago
Ugh. It's really very difficult to be a woman who doesn't agree with the status quo. I slut shame (this is a stupid term. Women should feel bad for being shitty gatekeepers to sex. No one should fuck without real discernment) and other women try to shame me for slut shaming? Like, don't defend a girl who has fucked 100+ dudes by 24. Esp if the last time she was tested for STDs age had only slept with 6 dudes and that was 4 years ago. That's not right.
Anyways, if your wife is on reddit, I would love to befriend her.
heeb 10y ago
Nooo, she's not really very active on the internet… She does some Facebook, we Skype when we're away from each other, and she uses it to do research for her studies (Masters, mental health nursing), but that's about it…
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williamwilliam2 10y ago
Consider getting a surrogate mother to produce a child for you, and have sole custody. Your parents might even pay.
_and_a_PhD 10y ago
This, and adoption are essentially impossible for men as you are assumed to be a child molester.
If you were to get a surrogate, and in highly likely chance she takes your money and runs, the court will not look in your favor. Even then, if she changes her mind later she can easily get 50/50 custody.
For adoption. Yeah right. No adoption agency in the country would let a single man adopt a child. EVER. Even for gay couples, it is very rare for this to be allowed. At best, some of the foreign agencies may allow it.
It is only recently that men even have a hope of getting sole custody in family court and even then the woman has to murder one of the children for a court to grant sole custody. Drugs, ok for a woman. Sleeping around, ok for the woman. Leaving the kids with a criminal boyfriend, ok for the woman. None are ok for a man and will lose custody instantly.
MrMagwitch 10y ago
.
williamwilliam2 10y ago
I google'd the options. As little as $10k to do it in India. $50-$100k in America. I think it's possible. It should become common.
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Mans_Right_To_Choose 10y ago
What did they do when they "eyed them suspiciously."
lightfire409 10y ago
I have one big problem with this, and its my kid is going to have half his genes from a surrogate mother. No, thanks. If I have to search the earth for a gal who's worthy of giving me kids I will, but I'm not going to cop-out by buying a surrogate mother.
Edit: To expand, I really believe a child needs a mother and father present for a proper development. If your just single fathering things you can't give them the constant love and care a mother can.
williamwilliam2 10y ago
You can get egg donors.
I don't think it's a cop-out under the current legal environment. Don't under estimate your ability to raise a child. It's too easy to consider yourself a cop-out, yet millions of women will chose to parent alone without having their abilities questioned.
PlusGoody 10y ago
Egg donor. 5'10" 125 lb girl who rows crew at Harvard. Yours for $15k. Use same donor eggs so your kids are full siblings.
Good healthy surrogate: $50k per kid.
Chinese nanny with a degree from a respectable Beijing college so your kids grow up respectful and speaking Mandarin. Yours for $50k a year.
Not my way of parenting but not too shabby either.
Apollo1982 10y ago
You give me hope sir.
Although I'd rather personally plow the 5'10" Harvard rower...
elevul 10y ago
Agreed, you actually have the possibility of getting much better female genes from donors than from impregnating a woman.
MrMagwitch 10y ago
.
LAMFF 10y ago
Are you the same guy who keeps suggesting this silly idea or are there more than one of you?
williamwilliam2 10y ago
There's more than one. Should be many.
Nerf_Circus 10y ago
Never considered something like that. What do you have against it out of interest?
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Average_Black_Man 10y ago
Why exactly is it silly? Are there a bunch of pitfalls or something
the_real_chronos 10y ago
It will impair the development and well-being of the child. If you haven't read enough, most of the reasons of our societal decline is due to the collapse of the American nuclear family.
Love them or hate them, a woman is necessary to start a family. Ignoring that reality will just contribute to the problem.
williamwilliam2 10y ago
Grandmother is in the picture, maybe some aunts. Impairment may not be eliminated, but it's not a guarantee. And, you may marry a stepmom, but be more likely to have custody following a divorce.
MrMagwitch 10y ago
.
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FloranHunter 10y ago
I highly doubt that nuclear families are particular important. More like, nuclear families are the smallest familial units that still raise children well. Extended families are more normal for humans and seemed to have done well for our entire history up until the early- to -mid-1900s.
the_real_chronos 10y ago
Yes, an extended family would perhaps be even better. But that is a rarity in today's modern world, so the nuclear family is pretty much the only feasible concept of a successful child-raising machine that I can foresee.
tallwheel 10y ago
True, but I seem to recall seeing some evidence that children of single fathers tend to turn out better than those of single mothers. Sorry I can't find anything to cite right now.
the_real_chronos 10y ago
It's worth exploring but children are extremely attached to their mother early on, so it would be interesting to see how not having a mother would impact their development and upbringing.
Average_Black_Man 10y ago
Ah right. What about adoption at the age of 5-10?
kick6 10y ago
still plenty of years left to fuck them up by not giving them a normal view of how men and women are supposed to interact. This is what's wrong with the current batch: they're all raised by single parents, and have no idea what the dynamics of a healthy relationship look like.
Average_Black_Man 10y ago
So how are you supposed to have kids? The only way I can think of off the top of my head is to find an RP woman, have kids, just never marry.
darthsmokey 10y ago
Thanks for sharing. As a young and unmarried, it is nice to see all of you married guys on TRP giving us heads up on relationship and marriage.
papadop 10y ago
I just don't understand how the legal system is so blatantly sexist. You got a "good deal" but 25% of your fucking salary is fucking outrageous!!!
If a divorce is coming, isn't there a way you can transfer out all your money to a secure bank (outside the US)? Before it can be seized? Can you cash out and store it in cash somewhere?
What happens if you just don't pay her (and leave the country?)
It's immoral for her to take your assets -- why should you even obey a court that is unjust? I understand laws are laws, but honestly, stupid and discriminatory laws should be broken.
learningBen 10y ago
This part isn't sexist. If she was making way more, she'd be paying him. Marriage is agreeing to a partnership, when the partnership ends you split the assets.
rp_divorced 10y ago
Immoral or not. The law allows it.
If I don't pay I'll eventually go to jail. I'm thinking divorce rape still isn't as bad as ass rape.
If I tried to hide the money, her attorney would hire a forensic accountant to track it down for a cost of $20,000 and the judge would make me pay for it. See how bad this can get?
[deleted] 10y ago
I have hear about signing a prenuptial agreement to walk away with your separate bank accounts, etc. in the event of a divorce.
Why arent more people trying that (if thats how it works)?
MorgensterHaze 10y ago
Fake your own death? I've considered this when looking at how much I (already) owe in student loans.
papadop 10y ago
Assuming you know/suspect divorce is coming, could you give it as a gift to a friend/family member to take posession over it?
rp_divorced 10y ago
The courts have seen every trick in the book so you wouldn't get away with it.
This is just one more risk you have to be willing to take if you get married.
MorgensterHaze 10y ago
The more I read these types of stories, the scarier marriage seems to me.
Does anyone have information on how this is handled outside the US, like western-europe for example?(I take it OP's from the US? seems that way from how you type)
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iiMSouperman 10y ago
Can someone explain to me what makes it so the guy ends up paying the chick money each month after divorce?
Absurd.
Average_Black_Man 10y ago
Outdated laws. Women used to not be able to get jobs, so they would take care of the house and shit. Obviously you can see how a separation from their husband could put them on the streets. It used to be necessary, now it's just extra privilege for having a vagina.
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stemgang 10y ago
Wow! Excellent write-up. Thanks for sharing.
whitethong 10y ago
Indeed. It was an awesome post.
ben0wn4g3 10y ago
Do you think she was cheating during the relationship? How was your sex life?
rp_divorced 10y ago
I'm not 100% sure but she was with two different guys within 2 weeks of telling me she wanted a divorce. Seems like she had them ready to go if it wasn't already happening.
kjvlv 10y ago
if it flies, floats or fucks,, rent it never buy. I shudder to think what mine will cost.. Just started to lawyer up. The 50/50 child visitation thing is what is stopping me. I could not take being a part time dad. kids are legal soon then it is game on.
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cheekybarstard 10y ago
I still cannot understand how the woman in a divorce walks away with so much? In a 50 / 50 parenting split, why does the woman get so many $$$ ? It boggles the mind, and completely turns me off marriage.
rp_divorced 10y ago
The quote below is the basis for alimony awards in my state. It comes straight from the appellate court.
It essentially means that the standard is to add up your combined incomes, divide by two and the higher earning spouse gives the difference to the other in order for things to be "fair".
cheekybarstard 10y ago
Marriage is really "throw it in, stir it around, and when you're done, you get half'
cover20 10y ago
So if you're headed for divorce but it isn't quite "on the boil" yet, would it make sense to get fired from your job?
Cyralea 10y ago
Print this out, laminate it and post it above your bed. I can't think of a more encompassing sentence to take away from TRP.
You will never be happy trying to make others happy at your own expense. Thinking that your partner will naturally reciprocate making you happy is how you end up miserable.
polyesterthong 10y ago
Don't worry. I can never be you.
learningBen 10y ago
Let me preface by saying I'm an advocate of making relationships work when they are salvageable.
It seems like this might have turned out better if you had been able to draw some lines in the sand earlier.
It sounds like the kids are important to you, so why would you suggest she take something important out of the equation?
Relationships shouldn't really be about control. Next time you might focus on compromise and win-win situations.
These were really the most important things in your relationship that you weren't getting? This sounds more like you want a prostitute and a housekeeper than a partner. I would have thought stopping shopping therapy and appreciating the contributions you make would be higher on your list.
Keep in mind that you're coming out of this relationship a lot better off financially than she is. You've got a big income and established career you created while part of this partnership, she got little to no career as part of the partnership. Her career may have sucked for you both when it was a partnership, but now it just sucks for her.
I'm by no means trying to say the failed relationship is your fault, only that there are some things you could probably do differently next time to get better results. Good luck!
evilmonster 10y ago
I've tagged you as "PussyPass Enabler", congratulations!
learningBen 10y ago
I think it was clear she did a terrible job at life and their marriage. I'm only trying to help OP do better next time.
rp_divorced 10y ago
My kids weren't spending all the money I made. My kids weren't telling me I was a bad negotiator when I didn't get a bigger raise.
We're talking about a woman who wouldn't call 911 when I had an irregular heartbeat and ended up in ICU.
A relationship can't be only about the kids. She didn't fulfill my needs and I wasn't fulfilling hers. The difference was that we went to counseling and she felt she didn't have to change anything.
Tell that to my ex wife. Lol.
Like I said in the original post, I took the nuclear route because we had been in therapy for two years and told her a hundred times what I wanted and never got it.
You're only getting a very small piece of a very large story. I understand the point you're trying to make and I don't disagree with it. It just wasn't reality for my situation.
learningBen 10y ago
Thanks for the responding. If I was talking to your wife I'd probably have a thousand pages of things she could do better next time or I wouldn't even talk to her because she seems beyond help.
If it's what you decide you still want, I'd like for you to enjoy a thoughtful, caring, and emotionally connected relationship with someone who appreciates you. As Red Pill / Alpha / Captain it seems to me we should take control and responsibility for addressing problems and making our relationships the best they can be. You're a great person and deserve it.
evilmonster 10y ago
Kudos for keeping cool after that comment.
Wheatspin 10y ago
How's that blue pill taste?
Seriously though, how was he supposed to salvage this relationship? Give his wife a strap-on so she could fuck him in the ass both figuratively AND literally? He wasn't happy. There was no reason for him to continue the relationship. Able to be salvaged and worth salvaging are different.
learningBen 10y ago
By the end, the relationship would have been very difficult to salvage, but it's possible he could have salvaged the relationship by behaving differently early on and had a much better previous decade. My thoughts were more on how he might have a better chance next time.
To me, blue pill is watching the relationship you chose to commit to, deteriorate and not doing anything about it. Red pill is influencing your relationship to be successful and being accountable for the results.
JP_Whoregan 10y ago
It "sucks for her" because she passed on and fucked up many different opportunities that she was given, due to OP's financial stability and financial commitment to his wife's masters degree. She didn't see the urgency to keep the teaching job, or any job for that matter, because she thought her
husbandATM would never run out of money for her to shop with.Let's not excuse the wife's liability, as society is so often wont to do. To blame OP for his wife's refusal to work excuses her of any agency in the relationship.
Wanting blow jobs, a clean house, and dinner on the table are not unreasonable demands, particularly and ESPECIALLY when OP's wife consciously wasted away employment opportunity after employment opportunity. What the hell could she have been doing all day while OP was working? Dishes, laundry, and housecleaning can all be completed within 2 or 3 hours. What about the other 5 hours?
Based on available information, I don't really think the relationship was salvageable. OP obviously didn't want a broken family, a huge chop in his income, and 50/50 time with his kids. I'm sure divorce was the last resort.
learningBen 10y ago
Absolutely. I was mainly trying to emphasize for OP that he is coming out of this much better off than she is. She is definitely responsible for her choices. However, they were committed to being a partnership, one unit, when her career and motivation floundered and she made bad choices. While she definitely wasn't doing her part he's taking a lot more from their time as one entity than she is. So good for him.
I agree wanting chores done is reasonable if a partner isn't working, but she's his wife, not his prostitute and blow jobs are something that is given by a partner, not demanded. It is unreasonable to have a bad relationship and expect your partner to sexually satisfy you. In this way, nature is sexist because most men want sex more than most women.
My point on his demands was that there are things that probably were more important to him like being respected and appreciated that were more important, but as OP said, he went nuclear.
Probably not at that point, my thoughts were more about how he might have a better chance if there is a next time.
[deleted] 10y ago
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learningBen 10y ago
She is definitely responsible for where her choices led her. But at the same time, they were a partnership, essentially on entity, and he is ending up better off. OP is a good person, but he wasn't a great partner.
[deleted] 10y ago
The question he asked about benefits happens to be the crux of the issue. Kids were a huge benefit, but as he stated, she's reaping all the rewards. His salary, his work around the house. She claims she's raising the kids and that the benefit of her raising the kids happens to be his. What she's doing (and very clearly attempted to do with the divorce proceedings) was using the kids she loves so very much as collateral. If it's such a benefit and "win-win" as you put it, why did she attempt to lord the children over his head, as so many women and family courts tend to do?
learningBen 10y ago
It definitely sounds like she should have contributed more, but her contribution to raising the children is valuable.
If my wife were to raise great children mostly on her own, I'd consider that more important than the mountains of cash I bring home. If I raised great children mostly by myself while my wife brought home tons of money, I'd certainly bring that up in court because it was a very valuable contribution.
Afronaut0 10y ago
Wait, so you are the cheater here?
rp_divorced 10y ago
I cheated, owned up to it and went two years of marriage counseling where I was repeatedly told I was forgiven and did everything she asked.
Is your argument that my cheating gives her a free pass to take me to the cleaners?
[deleted] 10y ago
Hang on, I keep reading that blowjobs don't count when it comes to a chicks "Number" so obviously blowjobs don't count right? /S
Afronaut0 10y ago
Well yeah, I wouldn't have sympathy for her if she cheated on you.
rp_divorced 10y ago
Cheating or no cheating, the outcome is exactly the same because I live in a no fault state. I'm merely pointing out what you have to look forward to if you end up getting divorced.
Don't miss the actual point of this post because of your righteousness.
Afronaut0 10y ago
Sorry, male or female, I think cheaters are scum. Fact is, your reasoning is the same for so many women who cheat themselves, that they "deserve it".
rp_divorced 10y ago
I'm starting to think you didn't read the whole post
Afronaut0 10y ago
No I read it. You started weak, stayed weak, resented her for your weakness, cheated, divorced, and its all her fault.
No wonder she didn't forgive the cheating, she probably thought you would do it again.
neonoir 10y ago
Maybe there's a time and a place for that reasoning, but this isn't it.
When I read that she wouldn't even call 911 when he had an irregular heartbeat and ended up in the ICU, I thought, "Goddamn, that's cold!"
That was really the cherry on top of the rest of her mess for me. After that point she didn't deserve anything, not even a shred of common decency.
Oh, and I'm female.
Afronaut0 10y ago
So that gives your perspective more merit? Cheaters will always try to rationalize their actions and gas light the past. We complain when women do it, and celebrate when men do the same? Fuck that.
You all need some standards in your life.
neonoir 10y ago
Being female doesn't give my perspective more merit. But it removes one reason that realistically, if not logically, might lead someone to side with him and/or TRP advice. It's equivalent to saying that I have nothing to gain from sticking up for him.
I've experienced being cheated on, so I might normally agree with you. But her behavior was so cold at that point that it sounds like it was already a relationship in name only. There was really nothing left to violate.
Yes, there were better ways to deal with this. But, it's easy to be a Monday-morning quarterback. Have a little compassion. This guy sounds like he's being very honest about the types of mistakes (such as failing to set boundaries) we all make in one area or another - in romantic relationships, at work, with our families, etc. He paid a very heavy price for his mistakes. I didn't read this as an attempt to blame everything on her, but as an attempt to prevent others from making the same mistakes.