In the RP circles it's often theorized that, through evolution, women have developed this sexual strategy of seeking an "alpha" to fuck, and a "beta" to provide for them. In this post I'll try share a quick thought I've had recently (which, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't been discussed anywhere) which tries to explain women's behavior from a different point of view. I am not saying that the prevailing theory is wrong. I am saying some more complex things might be hidden under the surface.
CONSCIOUS ATTRACTION
A conscious attraction is something a woman can rationalize about. When you ask her to describe the ideal guy, these are the things you will often hear her say. When it comes to marriage or LTRs, which are a calculated decision, women will often seek out this sort of attraction since they will know, on a conscious level, that it will benefit them in the long term. This includes:
- Loyalty
- Kindness
- Intelligence
- Emotional intelligence
- Sense of humor
- ...
SUBCONSCIOUS ATTRACTION
A subconscious attraction is a primal, animalistic form of attraction which is rarely beneficial to modern day women in the long term, but still exists as a sort of evolutionary relic. These are traits that used to be critical when choosing a mate, and thus have been engrained in women's subconscious, primal mind. They will often have a hard time rationalizing just why these things are attractive. When it comes to sex, which is inherently an animalistic, irrational, short term thing, women will seek out these traits. This includes:
- Height
- Symmetry
- Strength
- Confidence
- Social status
- ...
CONSCIOUS/SUBCONSCIOUS SPECTRUM
This isn't a black or white kind of thing, every attractive trait you can think of will probably fit somewhere on a conscious/subconscious spectrum. I would argue that where in the spectrum a trait lies, correlates with when in the evolutionary process it became beneficial in selecting mates. For example, having good facial symmetry is probably very far on the subconscious side (exists in virtually every animal), while having lots of resources (money) is somewhere in between (women are instinctively drawn to it, but they can also rationalize why it's important to them).
WHEN IS SOMETHING ATTRACTIVE
Instead of asking "is this alpha? is this beta? is this attractive?", I think we should ask "when is this attractive?". When it comes to making rational decisions, which require a lot of thought (like deciding to get married) the conscious attraction traits will be crucial. But when it comes to something like having a one night stand no one will ever know about, then these are thrown out the window, and are replaced with the subconscious traits. And then of course, you have everything in between, when a varying mix of these attraction types is taken into account, depending on the context and how much thought is put into the decision.
ALPHA FUCKS BETA BUCKS
Back to women's sexual strategy and "alpha fucks vs. beta bucks". We often put men in these 2 buckets. The beta provider is this loyal, friendly nice guy who brings in the resources, while the alpha pool boy is this young, shredded and confident guy who ends up fucking his wife. In this scenario what we have is one guy who has a lot of conscious attraction (which got him the marriage) but lacks any subconscious attraction. The other guy has a lot of subconscious attraction (which got him the pussy) but lacks any conscious attraction. I would argue that this is not a binary thing, rather, every man has a mix of several attractive traits, some are conscious, some are subconscious, and the mix each of us has (or displays) is evaluated differently, depending on when (or, in which context) it is evaluated (and to some degree, who does the evaluation). Of course, some guys will have very little of both (incels), while others will have a lot of both. I think that, in order to maximize our success with women, we should try to have as many attractive traits as possible, both conscious and subconscious ones.
ANALOGY
Let me explain this with a non-sexual analogy. When I buy my food for the week, I purposely get only the healthy stuff: vegetables, chicken, eggs, oats, etc. I do this consciously, because I know that this is good for me. I've read about it. I've seen the effect on my body. I know, rationally, that this is what I need in my kitchen. But, I'll admit, every now and then I'll indulge myself in a bucket of ice cream. Why? Fuck if I know! Perhaps, our ancestors needed sugars as easy-to-consume energy sources, and as a species we have developed a reward mechanism for it. It tastes fucking great! And even though I know I shouldn't eat it, I still do when I feel like it. Now, this doesn't mean that I have a strategy. There is no subconscious algorithm here telling me "step 1: buy chicken, step 2: eat ice cream" (although, an alien examining my behavior might theorize that there is a hidden strategy). There's nothing like that. There's just me being human, and as my levels of conscious decision making change, depending on context, so are the things I choose to eat. Now, if I had ice cream that was also healthy for me... I would eat the fuck out of that, every day, all day. This is what we should aspire to be.
LotBuilder 5y ago
We all know girls that will be vegetarians or vegans and 95% of the time they make conscious decisions on what they are eating... but while drunk at 2am on Saturday morning they are double fisting cheese burgers or eating a whole pizza.
That’s how they are with men. 95% of the time they are looking for a really nice guy that will worship them and put up with their bullshit. You want to be the guy they are thinking of the other 5% of time when they want to get playfully manhandled.
latinasonly 5y ago
id say its far greater than 5% of the time that girls are looking for alphas over betas, especially when girls are young and out looking for "fun". many girls in their younger years associate exclusively with alpha men.
LotBuilder 5y ago
Oh, they all want an alpha that they can train to behave like a beta when it suits them. When they realize that doesn’t work they change gears.
Pezotecom 5y ago
That's how we men act too (at least on the blue pill spectrum).
95% of the time men want to fuck, the other 5% it's them thinking to have a true emotional bond that doesn't require sex and it's unconditional.
ethical_pa 5y ago
This is what I wanted to say. This "mix of strategy" to attract women is still playing into the BB game. The whole appeal of being AF is that you don't have to play into that game. Freedom. Sure, women might hate you, spit vitriol at you, lack "respect" for you, shame you, etc.... buuuut they'll fuck you with NSA. It beats the shit BBs have to deal with. They REALLY get fucked over by women, in the long run.
The idea is to get good at capitalizing on the 5%, as you mentioned, so you can have a lot of sex from many different women. Let the BBs deal with all of their other bullshit 95% of the time.
Also, I know you were just using it as mostly an illustration, but I would argue that it's more than 5%. There are many different triggers, either social or based on how she is feeling at the time, that will inspire her to cheat and go for the AF. The "sluttier" she feels about it, the more the poor BB will have to suffer. Remember, it's never her fault so it must be because of something the BB did or is lacking.
LotBuilder 5y ago
Your last sentence is an ice cold glass of truth. They way they spin and justify anything is comical. As I have taken TRP and am evolving from a BB to AF I notice the girls I am fucking treating their beta orbiters and “boring boyfriends” like shit. The way they talk about them like they are an annoyance is sad. The poor guys are giving a misguided effort to “be nice”.
ethical_pa 5y ago
It is a hard truth. And a bitter... pill to swallow ;) I'm slowly evolving too and starting to see this shit first hand. When you read about it at first, you sort of accept it as theory, but figure it's not actually THAT bad. When you start to see it for yourself, you die a little inside. C'est la vie... death, rebirth, growth.
To be fair, some girls are nicer to their BBs (and AFs for that matter). They still do what they do though.
[deleted] 5y ago
These girls also snort cocaine... like..." hey, save the animals!.. and lets ignore the humans that died in the process of getting this cocaine up my nose.. "
LotBuilder 5y ago
Totally, I know girls that are extremely health conscious 99% of the time, but will swallow pills from random strangers at a music festival.
ReformSociety 5y ago
Tip: Don't use "Totally" ever again.
Red90210 5y ago
Yeah u/reformsociety is totally right.
__uwotm8__ 5y ago
Edit: I put this as part of the original post.
ANALOGY
Let me explain this with a non-sexual analogy. When I buy my food for the week, I purposely get only the healthy stuff: vegetables, chicken, eggs, oats, etc. I do this consciously, because I know that this is good for me. I've read about it. I've seen the effect on my body. I know, rationally, that this is what I need in my kitchen. But, I'll admit, every now and then I'll indulge myself in a bucket of ice cream. Why? Fuck if I know! Perhaps, our ancestors needed sugars as easy-to-consume energy sources, and as a species we have developed a reward mechanism for it. It tastes fucking great! And even though I know I shouldn't eat it, I still do when I feel like it. Now, this doesn't mean that I have a strategy. There is no subconscious algorithm here telling me "step 1: buy chicken, step 2: eat ice cream" (although, an alien examining my behavior might theorize that there is a hidden strategy). There's nothing like that. There's just me being human, and as my levels of conscious decision making change, depending on context, so are the things I choose to eat. Now, if I had ice cream that was also healthy for me... I would eat the fuck out of that, every day, all day. This is what we should aspire to be.
songone2 5y ago
Try keto ice cream, and as a whole, try to get on the keto diet, its fuckin fantastic.
__uwotm8__ 5y ago
Other than oats and vegetables (occasionally fruit), I hardly eat any carbs as it is. I thought of trying keto, but it seems way too strict for my lifestyle and I don’t think it’s worth it. It’s the “all or nothing” aspect of keto that is just way too much for me.
songone2 5y ago
You could have a cheat once a week technically, but I get what you're saying. I just feel like I need to have a regimen that benefits me together with training, so keto fits the picture.
Ezaar 5y ago
I heard sugar is important for the brain.
Zarathustraliver 5y ago
The brain runs better on ketone bodies. These fuels increase mitochondrial density (more energy), and increase Brain-Derived-Neurotrophic-Factor ('brain fertiliser' that causes brain growth). Breastfed babies are naturally in ketosis because ketones are a reliable near-limitless fuel source unlike sugar which can swing up-and-down. The brain can get Alzeimers otherwise known as 'diabetes type 3' from using sugar too much. Basically your brain cells become insulin resistant.
Ghyslain333 5y ago
Can you give links to support these claims regarding the causality between Alzheimer and insulin resistance in the brain cells? I'd be very interested to learn more about it.
[deleted] 5y ago
Its well documented and you can feel the effects immediately after switching to ATP/fat as your fuel source instead of just sugars.
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Zarathustraliver 5y ago
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213453016301355&ved=2ahUKEwiNjNmHnpzdAhUkIcAKHSz1CagQFjACegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2-XzVoLEaPTRCTcmjH7vTy
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[deleted] 5y ago
What is in the ice cream that your body is craving? And how do you get that thing in a more natural form?
Zarathustraliver 5y ago
Ice-cream is very energy dense. Also the casein in dairy can be addictive. Making homemade ice cream with stevia could be an option. 'Themusclephd' website has good recipies for low carb high fat high protein options.
beatsbystrad 5y ago
I came from all... I stumbled into something serious, didn't I?
Sirkisskindofman 5y ago
Yes and no. Depends on what you make and take from the material provided here. Sometimes it's comedy, sometimes it's real shit. It all comes down to your abilities as an intelligent person to find the truth yourself. Enjoy the show
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JOHN_MOLESTA 5y ago
Yup and welcome to the party!
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ethical_pa 5y ago
MOTHER FUCKER THERE AIN'T NO GOING BACK! YOU IN THIS SHIT FOREVER NOW! FOREVER!!
THE CONSEQUENCES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!!!
eccentricrealist 5y ago
Welcome to the first day of the rest of your life. From here on out every day you'll be better than the last.
Anthroider 5y ago
Weird.. I thought they banned trp from reaching /all
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cimsoc 5y ago
Good post— I agree that it’s important to maximize every attraction factor.
I’d argue that two most easily improved and important factors are strength and income.
ezray11 5y ago
Income is very hard to increase while still in school/college but strength is definitely very easy to improve and is very effective when you’re up against practically no competition.
Bhunnah 5y ago
For manlets:
A model using only linear and quadratic selection on the shoulder-to-hip ratio accounted for 79.6% of variation in relative attractiveness scores (centered to remove differences among women in their average attractiveness scores). The explanatory power of height and penis size when added separately to this model was almost identical. Both traits significantly improved the fit of the model (log-likelihood ratio tests: height: χ2 = 106.5, df = 3, P < 0.0001; penis: χ2 = 83.7, df = 3, P < 0.0001). Each trait, respectively, explained an extra 6.1% and 5.1% of the total variation in relative attractiveness.
So dick size is more important than height. But what was interesting is that height accounted for only a 5.1% variation. It makes sense because one on one male fighting is essentially wrestling and who can straddle the opp first wins, and world class wrestlers are compact and stocky.
Women with higher BMI’s preferred bigger flaccid penises. Which makes sense because bigger flaccid penises distribute heat better and bigger bodies produce more heat.
Arabian_Wolf 5y ago
I believe manlet height range differ from country to country.
I'm 5'11 and above average at my place, where I'd be below average at say somewhere in Scandinavia.
__uwotm8__ 5y ago
I honestly don’t understand how this is relevant
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FlabbergastedLGBTQ 5y ago
Yeah brah good thing I'm jacked af and alpha af always hit that ranch
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LotBuilder 5y ago
Good point. As we get closer to 50/50 we make better decisions. We still dabble with dirty girls but our eyes are wide open and we are not putting them on a pedestal.
kylerosa21 5y ago
This is similar line of thinking to what one of the Vanguards says: alpha is exciting, beta is comforting. The key is to find a balance of both. If we elaborate on your theory, the key should then be to find a balance between subconscious attraction and conscious attraction.
eye_engineer 5y ago
Conscious attraction = forebrain / cerebrum mediated - it is dependant on higher level thinking (this nice friendly person has a lot of resources which will put my children in a good position)
Subconscious attraction = limbic system/hindbrain mediated - automatic subconscious attraction which is dependent on whether or not a person stimulates the limbic system by portraying perceived dominannce
__uwotm8__ 5y ago
Thanks! You seem familiar with what I was getting at, are there any relevant studies or something? Doesn’t have to be about gender dynamics.
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Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
Low key avoiding saying 'good looking face'
__uwotm8__ 5y ago
Saying “good looking” kinda begs the question of “why is this good looking? What makes X attractive?”. I was trying to distill attraction to the bare minimal elements. You can throw in other things like strong jaw, full hair, etc. If you ask what makes those attractive, there really is no way to break it down further. It just is. Why is ice cream good? Because it has sugar. What makes sugar good? It just is.
Pilliam66 5y ago
It's a dense source of quick release energy
ZeppKfw 5y ago
Don't you think this is a bit useless? Most girls would be like "I want this" yet not really knowing what they fucking want.
__uwotm8__ 5y ago
It’s useful if we learn how to use it
indeydius 5y ago
Rollo has covered all this. Attraction vs. Arousal.
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