There have been 2 periods in my life.
The first period when I was being indirect with girls. I was still picking up girls and not being a complete AFC but I was doing all kind of PUA shit, not telling them I am into them. escalating very slowly on dates. the main thing was that I didn't reveal my true intention to them in a direct way.
The second period I was being very direct with my sexual intentions. basically going all sauvage cave man style. letting girls I want to fuck them right from the start and escalating like a motherfucker.
Few observations I have:
Rejection:
What I felt in regard to rejection was probably the biggest revelation I had.
When I was being direct rejection didn’t feel bad at all.
It was weird but I actually felt good inside. it was like I did what I was suppose to do as a man, she was simply not interested. Awesome and next. no time was wasted, no energy was spilled.
Being direct make the panties wet
Plenty of girls I been with later told me that just the fact I was being very direct with them about my intention to fuck them - turned them on sexually.
I read an interesting article about this lately that made sense in regard to this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201308/what-do-women-really-want
to quote from the article:
Women see the man, set aflame by uncontrollable lust for them, bringing them to ecstasy. Men want to excite women. Women want men to excite them. Being desired is the real female orgasm”
Being true to yourself
Regardless of success or failure. it just feel good and right to be bluntly honest about your intentions. Yes I'm a sexual creature and I want to fuck your brains out.
this honesty shift also changed my life on many other levels. made me more honest and direct with people in general and made my core self stronger.
Destroying my inner nice guy
Even when going redpill a few years ago, my inner nice guy got weaken but he was still lingering in the background. making an appearance here and there.
Going direct caveman style completely killed that little bitch inside of me. who knows he might be still lingering somewhere in the shadows but just from being very direct he doesn't have any real chance to show himself.
In conclusion
go direct and don't look back.
Edit: have to send a shut out to 'Alan Roger currie, author of the book "Mode one" that had a huge influence on me on this journey of becoming direct.
iSwallowedTRP 6y ago
To echo your point, i noticed if I went to a club with my frame being, “escalate, escalate, escalate”, I’d hook up every night.
Do you have any suggestions or could you provide examples of the dialog in your last day game cold-approaches (failures and successes)?
STFUIDGAFUCK 6y ago
Great post. Been thinking about the idea of being direct and show your intention early on. Do you have any example of you being indirect early on VS now being direct with the girls about your intention?
How exactly do you make it sexual early on and be honest with your intention?
Thank you !
zealanderx 6y ago
But look OP-
You are cutting off the portion of women in which are the top 3% of women with this approach. When you tell a girl you barely know, first date status that you just, "want to fuck her"... you are in a way taking away all of your power.
The highest quality woman only fucks with men who can fuck women as hot or hotter than her. The highest quality woman screens man to be screening hot women for a quality, character and intelligent woman. By going direct just because this girl is cute, she knows you aren't shit. When you can show a woman that you are very sexually interested in her, that you are an aggressive and direct man... BUT you are also very carefully screening her to look for reasons not to fuck her, this is when your game sky rockets.
So as of now, you are screening out for girls who are just DTF, YOU AS YOU ARE RIGHT NOW- jn my opinion the equivelant of an AFC for cute girls. You are doing this rather than finding what in my opinion what the Red Pill is all about-
Getting the highest quality women,
If you are trying to get down and fuck a girl before you demonstrate your value, show her how cool you are or whatever... and she's down to fuck, this girl isn't shit and I wouldn't waste my time. You shouldn't either, if you want great things from a woman who can add value to you.
smirk_addict 6y ago
Great post but I don't think it's a one size fits all kind of a thing though. I'm a muscular black dude. If am dealing with non black women, going direct works for me once i've established some attraction. Or just having social proof. But i've had some women literally run away or make a defensive posture. So I have to able to "disarm" them first. If people perceive you as non-threatening or you are exactly someone's type then I think going direct is best. RSDTyler from real social dynamics always goes uber direct. But there is nothing threatening about his demeanor being a shorter balding white guy. No offense. If I did, or just went direct caveman I would get tasered or maced. You got to calibrate.
Still though, terrific post.
TimmyTurnersNuts 6y ago
Say it for the people in the back. Muscular black dude with an intense resting face, in a white dominated college and community. Indirect with the “southern belles”, somewhat direct with white chicks who fucked black dudes.
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[deleted] 6y ago
That article covers a lot of what is discussed on this thread. What is apparent though is the initial reaction you get from a woman should dictate how you proceed. Having a girl say she wants to take it slow or worse “be friends first” is her way of keeping you around as an orbiter and any guy who buys into this bullshit is blue pill as fuck. But as the article suggests it is also about how the guy communicates with the girl. If he approaches with caution then he will probably get the above mentioned response by default, but if he makes it very clear from the start his intentions are sex then the girl could respond positively based on her initial attraction toward the guy. So you are correct. Be direct and cut your losses if she’s just not interested. No big deal. What you’re looking for are the ones who are.
[deleted] 6y ago
Always always always be direct and be bold. Good post thanks for sharing.
atifhere 6y ago
Sex for women is mostly validational. You might be making her wet by telling her how badly you want to fuck her, but in that way she have already gained what she wanted and now there is no need for her to fuck you.
There is no right answer to it. You have to approach her and set the context that the exchange is sexual in nature, and nothing else. You don't want to be her friend, you are only interested in her sexually. But at the same time you have to make her know that not any girl can satisfy you, and she would be lucky to do so. And she gotta fuck you hard to prove that.
All this don't have to be conveyed through direct words. Its through your frame
Lambdal7 6y ago
Do you have proof or how do you make that claim. It might be for girls who have multiple guys they find attractive to fuck, but for most girls that isn't the case.
S-Blaze 6y ago
This. It's best to build some tension first and show some restraint and then you go cavemen style and sweep her off. It has to be earned both ways. Quick club lays are not my thing though.
TheReformist94 6y ago
It's rele not validational.tgey enjoy it,just not with u
AlQWEffos239 6y ago
What should be said to make it sexual instead of coming off as a gay best friend.
redhawkes 2 6y ago
You don't have to say anything. Just escalate, that's how women communicate.
Don't verbalize attraction.
omega_dawg93 6y ago
say... "if i EVER get my hands on you..." while you are actively in the process of putting your hands on her.
420KUSHBUSH 6y ago
This may not go the way you want it to, especially if done with other people around
Nocryingok 6y ago
if you do it with the right tone (and right situation ofc) it's cool man
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greenlittleman 6y ago
It doesn't really matter in day game. There is only one thing you should do - lead her to your place within 30-40 minutes after meeting and you can do this as a gay best friend without touching her altogether. And then make her horny as fuck when you are already at your place.
atifhere 6y ago
Read my comment again and you will find out that asking a girl about pet store so she doesn't get scared is not the advice I would endorse, I have told to set the context sexual.
It can be an opener though, actually an opener can be anything. Mine has always been "Hi, how its been going". I think we both don't agree on the same definition of direct. To me direct means that you straight away tell the girl in words that you want to fuck her. Even if she wants to fuck you, saying yes will make her of a low value. Even if you are a chad, she will call you out and will say that you are being too direct and let's take thing slow. The point is verbalizing your intent and giving her instant validation is not the best advice. If it worked for you, then good for you.
magx01 6y ago
"To me direct means that you straight away tell the girl in words that you want to fuck her."
NO. With women nonverbal is king. It's all about body language. You can tell her you want to fuck her brains out with your body while your mouth says "I like apple pie, how about you?" She'll understand you perfectly.
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atifhere 6y ago
Where did I say that he is wrong?
atlantique16 6y ago
I think that first statement is wrong. If you make her wet she is going to be horny and want to fuck ????????♂️
atifhere 6y ago
I wish women worked like that
atlantique16 6y ago
They do. Why do you think some women keep guys in their life that give good dick? Girls are just as horny as guys.
Mike_3487 6y ago
This is not true. The most influential hormone in sexual desire is testosterone. Men have more of this.
atifhere 6y ago
Your arguments are coming off as autistic. My point is simply that if a woman is attracted to you doesn't necessarily mean she is down to fuck you. You have to cross few hurdles before getting her into bed. If saying to a girl that you want to have sex with her, worked then everyone would have been doing that. You will be getting a yes or no answer and you will just keep asking till one of them says yes. It simply don't work, even if you are a chad. Even though she wants to fuck you, saying yes to your direct words will make her feel like a slut and of low value. She don't want that.
And I am talking about approaching a complete stranger. Not plates or LTR
PresidentOnFirstTry 6y ago
No idea why you're being downvoted or why people think that women IRL are simulation video game, this sub of all subs. I appreciate your points.
atlantique16 6y ago
You sound like an angry child that doesn’t get vagina
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ar4s 6y ago
we (too) use sex for validation. It's a moot point.
Let's turn off the blinders. I feel this sub is getting to dogmatic, and we should edge more towards philosophy than principals.
hi-i-like-coding 6y ago
Yeah, it does seem incredibly dogmatic. I mean, come on, women must enjoy having a dick in them to some extent. It isn't purely about validation...
ar4s 6y ago
schrodingers penetration equation.
atifhere 6y ago
The problem with your armchair philosophical postmodernism approach is that it is simply a waste of time. In your approach, any explanation of female mind can be replied with "hey we(too) do this".
Principals have helped me in getting laid. To me such knowledge is waste of time that don't help me get my desired result. You can write a book about how wrong I am and how wrong my approach is in seeking the truth. But I won't be reading that book.
ar4s 6y ago
My point is that everyone uses sex as a form of validation. Do you disagree with that outright?
I get what you're saying. If we were having a different conversation, I'd be promoting physics while you say engineering is a more worthy discipline. Once we've pushed the limits of engineering, we must then go back to physics so we can achieve more. See the forest through the trees.
atifhere 6y ago
My point is that if I will make any point about a female behaviour then you can raise an object for almost every point and say that "everyone do that. Do you disagree with that outright" and of course I won't be able to disagree.
In this process the only thing acheived is waste of time. No information is exchanged. Only post modernists follow this insanely stupid approach to win arguments. Things are not black and white and are in spectrum. If validation gained from sex is a spectrum then women lean towards more to it than men. If sex done because of hormones and your cum producing in insane amount so you have to release it, is a spectrum then men lean towards more to it than women.
You already were aware of this, I didn't need to spoon fed u this spectrum things. But just for the sake of winning arguments so you can stroke your ego, you raised object
ar4s 6y ago
You're projecting. Regardless, I understand what you're trying to say. Cheers.
atifhere 6y ago
A women's SMV defines her survival chances while a man's SMV defines her reproductive chances.
The more attractive a woman is the more likely a man with more strength, status, and resources she can attract. Hence coupling with such male increases her chances of survival.
For woman the attraction is for large part validational. Knowing that she can attract a high status male make her high status. That is the reason when a low status guy approaches her she will say thing likes that it made her depressed and gave confidence issues.
Sure they have some testostrone too, which is responsible for horniness, and they do fuck because of hormones. But they are nowhere as near as an avergae male
ar4s 6y ago
I think the reason you were downvoted is because you missed the punchline. You were making a point (maybe) related to my comment and it was building, then you veered off.
if you werent maybe intoxicated on something and this is a template of how you communicate, think on it.
atifhere 6y ago
Perhaps the downvoters realted to the low smv remark. And found the truth bitter. They are on the wrong sub if thats the case. Information shared here is not desgined to make you feel better for yourself
ar4s 6y ago
So you're a self-rationalist eh. I see why you got the downvotes now.
atifhere 6y ago
As if downvoters know my history or I have a reputation or something. I believe half of the people dont even bother looking at username. And I am pretty sure that downvoters downvoted for my comment only. But hey anything that helps strokes ur ego and make u feel smart. Keep doing
ar4s 6y ago
Not everyone who disagrees with you is wrong ;)
atifhere 6y ago
Where did i have implied that? You are putting words in my mouth. If you have nothing to contribute then stop wasting others time
StanDando 6y ago
Direct vs indirect is an interesting debate, until it is resolved through experience. The above is false advice. Let me give a scenario. Say a man posts his experience of having much better results with direct versus indirect game.
For the first phase, when he was an economics student say, he was indirect in his approaches. It is hard yes, it takes a lot of investment to grow and to apply, and rejections can be a big let-down.
After he graduates, he gets an assistant-level job in a department of a prominent risk-management company. He still goes out and meets women, and he still uses indirect game. But the longer he is in the job, and going through the ranks, the less he feels the need to be indirect with women. Eventually, he just cuts out the game altogether, and approaches women asking to fuck them.
What has really changed here? He has gone from using game to not using game. He has also gone from a student to, eventually say, a CFO of a market-leading subsidiary, making upwards of 70,000 per annum. What has really changed, is his financial status. Now when he approaches women, they actually Do want to fuck him.
We could also paint a simpler scenario where the guy has been rich all his life, and the reason that he resorted to game in the first place is because he was very socially inept. That's not a criticism - its just what several who come to me for advice are like. Once they fix their social weaknesses, they instantly become more successful with women than the most experienced and skilful master out there - through money and social status alone.
Back to the poster - this is false advice; if you could just get sex by going up to women on the street and saying 'nice shoes, wanna fuck?', then no-one would be here talking about game.
When I share my 'secrets' and skills with other men, it is because I know that if they worked for me, theyll work for them. Therefor, its valid advice. If I'm Charlie Sheen and I give men the advice 'just go out of your door, turn left, find the first woman you meet, say hello, and fuck her', it's going to be useless for almost 100% of people reading it.
Im not busting your balls mate, its just bad advice. Even though I really like how you frame it as a male confidence thing, where we should all be honest about our sexual needs. I completely agree with that.
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mishasam89 6y ago
doe this actually work? lol
omega_dawg93 6y ago
wasn't that direct quote in pulp fiction?
mishasam89 6y ago
it was in Jakie Brown, but the girl said it to Deniros character.
Alleycat0 6y ago
Great movie, Bridget Fonda.
luciagarcia8818 6y ago
So, when you stated your intentions clearly led to a clear development unlike an insidious approach?
Fedor_Gavnyukov 6y ago
god these comments are autistic as fuck. obviously he's not coming up to girls saying "hey wanna fuck?", although it can work in certain situations. he's talking about being direct by making his intentions known and showing he's interested. instead of approaching like an autist he's approaching like a man.
420KUSHBUSH 6y ago
Being direct is when you don't care about the outcome and just take the risk of going for it. So be direct
randomperson123321 6y ago
Seriously, the majority of people here should at some point realize a very simple fact...
Being indirect, manipulating and playing mind games are approaches used by weaker people in order to gain power and control over someone stronger. They are feminine traits, used extensively by women. That's just it.
Seeing through all these and calling them out is the most masculine approach, and gets women all wet.
scissor_me_timbers00 6y ago
Depends. Yes most mind games are female bullshit. But on the other hand, women enjoy the push/pull of the mating dance. So as a guy you gotta sorta game them. But that should be distinguished from PUA “tricks”.
ar4s 6y ago
you seem smart, find a better way to express yourself. this comment is shit masquerading as diamonds.
randomperson123321 6y ago
I still stand by my previous statement.
Sub-communication (ie: power talk) and underhanded/underground tactics are meant to shift power and control over to someone weaker, someone below, someone under you.
Call them out, block them, make female pants wet.
ar4s 6y ago
this comment was supposed to be ironic, based on a previous comment.... the context/continuity of which I probably only got. You're right.
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SKRedPill 6y ago
I conclude that this, especially media advice, is just a device for filtering betas.
hawkeaglejesus 6y ago
You can't be all push or all pull, you have to balance it within the current context.
Just met a nice girl at a friend's wedding? Little pull to get her interested, but mostly push so she starts chasing.
Bar slut that's DTF and you're on the way to her place? Mostly pull, with a little push to get her riled up before you fuck.
BorisJohnson4PM 6y ago
Curious to know what you mean by push and pull in this context?
hawkeaglejesus 6y ago
It's basic PUA terminology, you "push" her away by acting distant, uninterested, negs, etc. Then you "pull" her back in by being nice, little bit of validation, maybe a compliment, or just downright showing her how much you wanna fuck her. It's all largely context dependent.
Take for a example a night club approach. After opening and establishing baseline comfort, you decide to go dance with her. A "push" would be teasing her by lightheartedly joking "wow you're a terrible dancer" (don't sperg out and actually insult her). Then later in the night you "pull" by saying "I had a good time tonight, you're very fun to talk with". Then you push again by not replying to her texts for a day or two.
You play the Game by women's rules and that means playing mind games to keep your opponent in a semi-confused state. "Does he like me? Does he not like me?" Like a drug dealer you get her hooked with a little bit of validation (pull), but then you withhold anymore (push) until she starts chasing.
Betas are all pull, new guys who take "girls like jerks" literally are all push. She wants to ride ups and downs of the emotional rollercoaster, and push-pull is the method to do it.
If you really want to get advanced with it, research [variable-interval reinforcement] (https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/mcat/behavior/learning-slug/v/operant-conditioning-schedules-of-reinforcement).
Basically, reward her completely at random. She'll be hooked like a gambling junkie, using pussy tokens to play the validation slot machine.
BorisJohnson4PM 6y ago
Thanks! Familiar with the concept and have been trying to employ it with some success just never heard it in these terms before
bluedragon2388 6y ago
What would be an example of direct vs indirect?
Just something to wrap my head around
fortuitousmonk 6y ago
Ok, you're at a bar and your friend brought someone to watch a sports game. Your friend's friend obviously has no fucking clue what's going on, so you make a bunch of gestures at it:
That's an indirect way of saying, "you have no fucking clue what's going on and why are you here." It would only be indirect communication if what you're really doing is escalating each time the level of detail in the question as a way of confirming that you're sure the person in fact has no fucking clue. It would not be indirect if you were sincerely asking the questions. I call it a communication style that goes in through the side door instead of the front door.
Most of the shit I read on TRP basically seems to suggest you start off with indirect communication with the objective of questions like, "did you know that you are fuckable?" "are you here to fuck me?" "why are your friends so annoying, let's get away from them?" "are you ready to fuck me yet?" but all said indirectly.
If you were being direct you might ask direct questions with yes/no or simple answers that confirm/deny the thing you're after.
newls 6y ago
Yes. In other words, direct with intention. "Do you want to come back to my place?" She knows what you mean.
Contrast with overt with intention. "Want to fuck?" or lower-hanging fruit, "Ey bby I send dik pic?"
The former does the job and speaks a language that women will intuitively understand. Intentions communicate everything to them.
Make your intentions clear and keep your sexual agenda intact.
dustman83 6y ago
Very interesting article with some good points. With my experiences, I have tended to get better outcomes when I hide my cards. Women are truly messed up in the head and want to figure things out themselves. Its like they perceive you as high value if you don't let them know you are sexually interested. If you're telling em you want to knock boots right out of the gate, they'll most likely lose attraction to you since you have already validated their ego. Women always want what they can't have as well.
This direct tactic probably works the best at the club around closing time though when all the vodka crans, cosmos, and AMFs have kicked in.
skyhermit 6y ago
Exactly. Based on my experience, I have done better with indirect than direct. And the fact that I am in Asia and approaching Asian girls, indirect might be the best in here
coolasice007 6y ago
Simple cure, tell them u wanna tag team them
scissor_me_timbers00 6y ago
Yeah it’s funny there’s different strategies that work. It’s kind of all a frame game. But I’ve found your comment to be more accurate of the everyday reality for most guys. They enjoy the chase. The mating ritual of push/pull. So just presenting them with the blatant “lets fuck” kills the mating dance of it. That may occasionally work, especially if you have very high SMV. But otherwise it’s good to show some interest but also maintain an aloofness as well.
ChadTheWaiter100 6y ago
Please provide an example of “being direct.”
How direct are you- do you walk up to a girl and say I want to fuck you? Do you introduce yourself and then say it? Do you just say something like - you have a nice ass? What’s a specific example? I’ve considered this approach based on some extremely suggestive looks I’ve recieved from women that I don’t even know.
suaressi 6y ago
try those out and report back
ChadTheWaiter100 6y ago
Will do. I see it like this - if the girl is eye raping the shit out of you; just fuckin go for it.
I went to a breastraunt with my buddy a while back and I had always seen this nice piece of ass looking at me. I didn’t think too much of it but one time she told my buddy- I wanna fuck his face. He asked me - did you hear what she said? I said no. He repeated. I was kinda surprised bc no alcohol was involved on her end. Her defense was- what, you have pretty eyes.
My point in mentioning that is, if a girl is eye raping the shit out of you, go ahead and shoot. BUT I believe that some girls require a little more game. Just my two cents.
ninoamatore 6y ago
I think here we are talking about beta-men and beta-women. For alpha-men and alpha-women the situation is the opposite: Women want to excite men and men have more important things to do than to excite anyone.
N1CK_0F_T1ME 6y ago
The opposite would be that men and women want to depress each other.
Zormut 6y ago
What are the changes you applied to your game that made it possible?
wisty 6y ago
Failing fast (by being direct) gives you more chances to improve your game.
Having good game doesn't let you be direct. Being direct is what lets you learn better game. This (and the vanilla self help crap like lift, be confident, etc) is all that's really important on this sub.
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[deleted] 6y ago
This is why not jerking off is good for game. Uncontrolled thirst can be a problem but skillful eye contact communicating primal lust captivates bitches.
[deleted] 6y ago
I’m surprised they even published that article.
It could be on the red pill side bar.
Why wasn’t this information taught in school, I will never understand.
ar4s 6y ago
because its better for people like you to fuck your hand.
samraat65 6y ago
how to apply in highschool:
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fortuitousmonk 6y ago
I was raised British which is a totally indirect communication style.
Fact is true too, sometimes being direct is very effective to open the door. However, you have to be direct when you want it. There's something to be said for indirect communication keeping the bullshit afloat.
As a man more or less terrified of commitment, to me being overly direct with any one partner would mean the worst -- life-and-death consequences :P
I have made out with random women before asking the question exactly as follows, "I'd like to have three kids some day, can you have three kids? Would you like to have three kids with me?" on one occasion that led to a make-out within maybe 2 minutes of meeting.
I have no idea why that works, but my Uncle gave me that advice and I thought it was so hilarious I felt like repeating it when out. Women usually take a moment or two to sincerely think and then they usually come back from their brain noggin' and say, "OK".
fischbrot 6y ago
hi there. care to share a sentence or two about your personal cave man style journey?
thanks for the insights ...
cheers
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VickVaseline 6y ago
"Even watching sex among Bonobo monkeys stimulates physiological arousal in women."
Sublime!
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