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- Hide Preview | 120 Comments | submitted 11 months ago by Warped_Mindless [Post Locked]


Often Red Pill men will ask such questions as:

Will dread game work here to get her chasing me again?
How do I create competition anxiety in my girl? Its not working!
She keeps testing me! Shes relentless! Why?
This girl is always hot/cold/hot/cold, what gives?
No matter what I do this relationship always seems like a power struggle, why?!?

Difficult women tend to remain difficult.

Yes, knowing how to create dread, competition anxiety, controling the frame, and other techniques and strategies are important but whats even more important is choosing the right girl.

The Solution

While men are biologically designed to be naturally dominant and women are biologically designed to be naturally submissive there are plenty of men and women out there with screwed up biology.

When it comes to women you have to think of it like a scale. On the far left is Absolute Dominance (AD) and on the far right is Total Submissiveness (TS).

AD --------------------- TS

Every single women you meet will be somewhere on that scale. While it is possible to train, over time, a women on the left side of the scale to become much more submissive its much simpler and less of a headache to simply screen out these Left-Scale women as potential LTR candidates.

Again, it is possible to eventually train most of these women if you have good game and excel at Operant Conditioning but with so many women who are naturally submissive, why bother?


So many men would have less trouble and stress with women if they would simply avoid the ones on the left side of the scale. The more left they are, the more of a headache they will be.

Yes, you will still need to know game and still need to know how to keep her chasing and investing in you no matter how submissive she is but don't fight an uphill battle when you don't need to. Feel free to keep dominant women as low effort fuck buddies but never promote them to LTR status.

With all that said there is one exception to this: When you are first embark on the Red Pill journey and are still learning relationship management techniques, find a very dominant woman and make her one of your main girls for a short while. Why? Because it makes for damn good training. Once you learn how to handle a very difficult woman the more submissive ones are cake.

[-] KeffirLime 174 Points 11 months ago

Truth, unless you enjoy pushing uphill avoid Feminists, Party Girls, Career Woman, Lots of Male Friends

Go for the Introverts, Family Girls, Don't Party too much, Submisive types

[-] reddit_already 67 Points 11 months ago

To add to the list, I'd add points for women who...

  • Were raised with siblings (even better if she has experience caring for younger sibs)
  • ...Where some of her siblings were brothers
  • Come from an intact two-parent home
  • ...With parents who have patterned good communication and how to get along
  • Has respect for her father
  • Had to work to earn what she's got (e.g., put self through school)
  • Have some experience/exposure to foreign cultures
  • Grew up with some religiosity or a value structure
  • Has a low partner count
[-] redpill_quest 10 Points 11 months ago

Why no career woman though?

[-] hawkeaglejesus 61 Points 11 months ago

I find that a woman should want to spend her time raising kids. Biologically speaking, that's literally her ultimate purpose in life.

So when a woman goes "Oh yeah, I'd rather go spend all day with a bunch of strangers and pay someone else to raise my child during the most critical years of mother/child bonding."

I can't but come to a conclusion that there's something at least a little wrong with her. Her job is worth more to her than her kids.

The kind of woman you want is a ride-or-die bitch that would rather have her arm cut off than be separated from her children.

Lastly, it shows a lack of faith in you as a husband. A woman that's dedicated to her children is also dedicated to you as a father to provide. Her having a career is a Plan B that's built upon the idea that one day she's gonna have to leave rather than be dependent on you. Basically, she doesn't believe 100% in your ability to provide.

[-] beginner_ 8 Points 11 months ago

Lastly, it shows a lack of faith in you as a husband. A woman that's dedicated to her children is also dedicated to you as a father to provide. Her having a career is a Plan B that's built upon the idea that one day she's gonna have to leave rather than be dependent on you. Basically, she doesn't believe 100% in your ability to provide.

BS. That's just common-sense. Also submissive women know relationships don't necessarily last forever for whatever reasons. For example her partner can die in an accident. This is especially problematic if you are not married, at least here because she will get nothing. Or simply for retirement. Good luck in todays climate paying for a wife/LTR, kids and having enough saved for rent. Depending on where you life, that quickly needs a >$200k salary. Also again if you are not married and you die, depending on where you work (country / company) she will get nothing from your pension.

And so forth.

[-] The_Chiselnator 10 Points 11 months ago

That is why life insurance exists, guy. And trusts. You are hamstering your need to have a career thot for a wife. In the year 2018 you can plan for the sustenance of your children post mortem.

A woman who has bought the lie that spending 14 hours a day making strangers richer is empowerment while staying at home raising kids is oppression is not wife or LTR material.

My kid's mother has two degrees, was running her own business and was in charge of an entire continent for a global financial conglomeration.

When I asked her to spend the first 5 years at least with the boy she quit her jobs and has never wanted to go back. She says that she never actually wanted to work anyway and was waiting to be prompted to quit. You think women enjoy working? They are not built for it. They are built to raise kids.

If you need a woman finding resources to take care of your kids then what the fuck is your problem?

[-] beginner_ 7 Points 11 months ago

Just lol.

There is obviously more than black and white. Career thot vs housewife. Like working part time. Life insurance needs to be paid for. money for a trust needs to be there. Not everyone inherited his millions from daddy. The only reason she dropped her career is because you married her and you either have already bank or make bank. Her life insurance is the marriage.

[-] The_Chiselnator 11 Points 11 months ago

More excuses.

You don't need billions to get a life insurance policy that assures your family of the same lifestyle they are currently ACCUSTOMED to when you are alive. If you live in a trailer you can assure them of life in a trailer after death.

One of the things that amuse me is the inability of supposedly redpilled men to understand the simple fact that a woman's place is in the home raising kids until they are autonomous. It is not about money. It is about optics for strangers (@beginner married some finance twat. he is amazing) and also just weakness (I need a woman's money to run a family)

Anyway, I wish you all the best as you pursue your career thots. Ultimately they will be postwall, insufferable, high testosterone, career grrrls who have total inability to either pair bond or raise kids.

The red pill is wasted on you.

[-] beginner_ 5 Points 11 months ago

We agree to disagree. I rather not marry and hence having my LTR work at least part time so she a) later has a pension (the main reason seh does it) and b) can pay for her car, health care,... (not US, here everyone pays HC themselves, it's never part of benefits). Remember, it's just your turn. even if you have kids. Nuclear family is dead and while having a stay at home mom would be ideal, these times have passed. In fact them getting bored at home is a main reason that leads to cheating. With current appliances, housework is barley a part time job.

[-] The_Chiselnator 1 Point 11 months ago

Yeah sure. I am pretty confident my woman is a potential slut and I am not deluded enough to imagine that my dick is the only dick she will have poking her the rest of her life (hell not even this year). But if I catch her she is gone.

The only thing I care about is my kids growing up strong. And that is why I wanted all of her efforts focused on their upbringing in the most demanding phase of their life. Once they are out of the formative stage she can fuck off. She will have served my need to not only reproduce but also to have kids who know can go through life without too many neuroses.

If you choose a woman to breed with, it helps to have planned ahead what happens when.

[-] [deleted] 11 Points 11 months ago

You sound like a miserable asshole who needs to get the fuck over yourself. I bet your wife leaves you soon and you blame her when its your narcissism.

[-] [deleted] 4 Points 11 months ago


[-] beginner_ 1 Point 11 months ago

Well of course that doesn't apply to Montana or anywhere else in the middle of nowhere. More thinking of NYC or Silicon valley price level.

[-] Shaman6624 3 Points 11 months ago

Lol for 200 k I can support 4 family's

[-] beginner_ 0 Points 11 months ago

Agree if you live in Bumfuck, Montana.

[-] Shaman6624 1 Point 11 months ago

Haha, well Lets say its 105.000 after taxes. And they are you, 4 wives, 2 kids each. where I live a nice house in one of the bigger cities costs about 1000.000 that's a mortgage of around 3600 a month. Then food will be around 2000-2500 a month if you eat luxuriously. Basic insurance for everyone including health is 520 a month (yes its that cheap where I live for 13 people). Then gas water and electra will be around 700 a month so. After all that you'll still have 1680 for clothes a car and gas.

[-] beginner_ 1 Point 11 months ago

I assume 1000.000 i suppose to mean 1 million? You won't find a house for that here unless well you are not anywhere close to a city. In the city that will net you a old, small 3 bedroom apartment. very conservatively you will need $1500 per wife/children and month for housing so that is $6000.

Food & groceries is about $400 per person so that alone would be 4 + 8 + 1 = $5200 a month. health care for an adult is easily $350 per person. So that is 5x$350 + 8x$150 = $2950. I guess you can see were this is going...

[-] Scrub_TLC 1 Point 11 months ago

lol, What the fuck do you eat $400 per person, Organic Gold?

I eat about 3000 calories per-day on 160 per month in America...

[-] beginner_ 1 Point 11 months ago

Not America and I clearly stated "food & groceries" meaning stuff like shower gel, washing powder, stuff for shaving, jadajda.

[-] Shaman6624 1 Point 11 months ago

Yeah living in america sucks

[-] reluctantly_red 0 Points 11 months ago

Basically, she doesn't believe 100% in your ability to provide.

Reality check #1 in today's world two incomes are often required to live in a minimally comfortable way.

Reality check #2 if the guy has supported the woman for a significant period (i.e. over 10 years) and they divorce she is much more likely to get a big alimony award.

[-] VikingOverlorde -7 Point 11 months ago

Maybe she enjoys working hard and enjoys her career. A career shows that she is capable of dedicating her time to something and able to complete it. The ability to get knocked up and be a stay at home mom isn't rare or special.

[-] hawkeaglejesus 15 Points 11 months ago

Maybe she enjoys working hard and enjoys her career.

Great I'll marry a man then.

The ability to get knocked up and be a stay at home mom isn't rare or special.

Good strawman. Let me rephrase that for you. It is rare to find a woman who loves her children so much that she is willing to sacrifice her career for them, and trusts her husband so much that she is willing to put her financial well being entirely in his hands.

You know, a woman who puts her family ahead of herself.

[-] ROFLME 1 Point 11 months ago

Great I'll marry a man then.

The more masculine a womans thought process the less irrational she acts. I'm pretty sure S1 -> S4 tends to fantasize WIAMB

[-] monsieurhire2 10 Points 11 months ago

Being a stay-at-home mom isn't about getting knocked up and having a child. It's about proper child nurturing and education, which is a full-time job that really only an educated person who loves their child and wants what's best for them can do properly. Otherwise you are rolling the dice putting them in a system that is really just designed to turn them into servants to the monied interests. Also, at a certain point, if you do it right, the children become semi-autonomous, and then the mother can do a career. I told my ex-girlfriend, "You have the whole rest of your life to pursue X career or Y hobby," but you only have a few child-bearing years. She kept insisting she could leave it to the last minute; one of her many faults. So I had to next her. She wasn't even really interested in her "career," she really just wanted a credential that would prove that she was accomplished and a position in a power-structure.

[-] KeffirLime 5 Points 11 months ago

Generally lots of masculine traits. These are needed to compete in the business environment. Careers as teachers or secretaries are fine, but those near the top of corporate ladders are undateable.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 11 months ago


[-] KeffirLime 1 Point 11 months ago

Most women aren't career driven anyway. They prefer jobs they enjoy, that give them more time off, and the pay is enough so that they're comfortable. She could be a doctor and thats great.

Career women in the sense that you don't want a woman who's goal is to climb the corporate ladder.

When I was 20 I banged the CEO of a company, had been divorced 3 times, and was cheating on her husband with me, her comment "I just seem to walk all over the men in my life"

She shouldn't ever be reliant on you for money unless you're married(which is never recommended) and even then, that comfort needs to be constantly earned.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 11 months ago


[-] KeffirLime 1 Point 11 months ago

Financial security is no problem, If she's a doctor, or a skilled designer, then great. They pay well. Providing for themselves and family is encouraged.

Career woman implies that their career is their focus, these are the dominant types you speak of, will choose their careers over family. For most women this is not the case.

A teacher, doctor, nurse, secretary to name a few examples are jobs that comfortably secure a financial future. A woman can comfortably support herself on these jobs and not be financially reliant on her SO. These jobs are not "Career Woman" jobs.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 11 months ago


[-] KeffirLime 0 Points 11 months ago

Well think of it this way. There needs to be a benefit to do something. If i go to work i get paid. If i go to gym i get a better physique. What benefits could i get by marrying a woman that I'm not already getting.

Basically you have a ceremony, sign a paper, and then continue doing what you were doing before, only now you are legally tied to her, making you somewhat responsible for her if/when she leaves you. Especially if there is a kid involved. To add to that, the psychological playing field of the relationship has changed. She has you tied in in a court of law. Previously if you didn't like her behavior you simply left. Now it's an extremely tedious process involving lawyers to simply be rid of this woman.

Men are the gatekeepers of commitment, so once you give this up, women tend to stop trying to win over your approval, they wallow in their comfort, start giving up sex, put on weight, because they know the process to rid yourself of them is so tedious.

Just based on stats alone you have a 50% chance of getting divorced. If you were to jump out of a plane and your parachute only opened 50% of the time, would you still do it?

As for the man leaving well thats the risk of any relationship, women face it and so do men, they do not get a pedestal in this regard. If you make an investment you have to be willing to lose it. Seldom will someone just up and leave a great partner, male or female. But if someone is not a great partner then they deserve to be left. Everyone is responsible for themselves in that regard, which is why it's recommended to rather spin plates, little to no investment, with practically the same rewards.

[-] [deleted] 0 Points 11 months ago


[-] KeffirLime 1 Point 11 months ago

Moms a doc, recently plated a teacher.

Mom took time off to raise the kids, works as a GP, very casual hours

Plate is constantly making plans with me, seems to get off work early.

Anyway not the point, it's not that they can't have a working career, like my mother did, but family came first.

A "Career Woman" is generally associated with a woman, who's focus is work, career comes first, she will choose her work over family. She has strong masculine traits needed to compete in the business world. You don't want to LTR this. Obviously theres exceptions to every rule.

It's terminology, Google it, an explanation should pop up immediately.

[-] Warped_Mindless 8 Points 11 months ago

Yep. I'll still keep them as fuck buddies but they never get promoted above that.

[-] Revo_Luzione 2 Points 11 months ago

I'm to the point where I don't want to waste my time with thots and feminists (but I repeat myself) unless I'm in a dry spell. Even then, the answer is approach more, and continue to screen hard & qualify.

[-] TheReformist94 2 Points 11 months ago

Men are not the gatekeepers of commitment. Women,and high SMV women are the gatekeepers of sex and commitment. Any woman who is half decent holds all the cards,and according to briffaults law,the conditions of the family (read: commitment) are dependent on the female.

Women can fuck who they want when they please for no effort. So she will be committed to you for as long as she wants.

I had an LTR for 4years,who treated me very well, but that wasn't because of me.thats because of her being like that because SHE wanted a relationship. She could have gone on the CC if she felt like it, but has the SMV AND RMV to pursue SERIAL MONOGAMY (COMMITMENT ON HER TERMS) as she not try to lock women down. With jobs they don't want commitment

[-] Gaydolf1932 2 Points 11 months ago

That’s very true. And even if you change the feminist party girl, she will probably go back to her old habits eventually and end up getting railed by some dude at the club. So keep your guard up and remember it’s just your turn.

[-] 88VILLI 1 Point 11 months ago

this should be written in stone.

[-] Lambdal7 -1 Point 11 months ago

Why lots of male friends. I've met a few women who didn't like to hang out girls, because they were themselves rather boyish, not dramatic, not complicated and were just too annoyed by women to hang out with them.

[-] KeffirLime 14 Points 11 months ago

That's their hamster talking, generally attention whores. Love the male validation they get constantly. Most men are friends with women because they wanna fuck her, or they wanna fuck her friends. She knows this.

[-] Lambdal7 1 Point 11 months ago

I get that, but what about the part of not wanting to hang out with girls. The male equivalent would be a guy who has always hung around with girls since childhood, but can't stand hanging out with guys.

[-] KeffirLime 7 Points 11 months ago

Shes a smurfette. "A "Smurfette" can be defined as a girl or woman who purposefully puts herself in an uneven environment of men in order to obtain attention and easier hypergamy. They are known to infiltrate men's groups or gatherings, activities mostly done by men, and sub culture social circles".

Any woman who cant get along with her own kind is a red flag. She wants to be the only girl in the world, devoid of competition.

[-] Flintblood 2 Points 11 months ago

Any woman who cant get along with her own kind is a red flag. She wants to be the only girl in the world, devoid of competition.

So true. Even moreso if she claims she historically didn't hang out with girls, but is a party girl. Now if she's just shy all around and has mostly male family members, that's another issue.

[-] LiveAFTSOV -10 Point 11 months ago

Uphill... Party Girls

I have to disagree with this based on anecdote.

Party girls and rave girls, because of their history of being the centerpiece of a bukakke, are eager to serve their man and are extremely submissive.

They cook, they clean, they suck - anything - all on command.

Just make sure you never cuff that slut.

Rememeber, centerpiece of a frat house bukakke.

^^All ^^of ^^those ^^are ^^red ^^flags, ^^but ^^Party ^^girls ^^are ^^submissive. ^^I ^^was ^^plating ^^a ^^party ^^girl ^^who ^^had ^^a ^^myriad ^^of ^^guy ^^friends ^^she ^^would ^^attend ^^parties ^^with ^^- ^^it ^^slowed ^^down ^^when ^^she ^^found ^^out ^^I ^^dont ^^approve.

[-] KeffirLime 6 Points 11 months ago

I've found different types of party girls:

The "Premium": HB8-10 Beautiful, Entitled, go to most parties to look good and get off on all the attention they get. Mostly a tease and only put out for the highest status men, if you fall in that category enjoy. Can lure with cocaine.

The Nice Girls: HB6-8, Cute, generally has lots of guy friends, most girl friends are hoes and party girls, nice personality, not easy, but could hook up with and take home if you game right, average in most aspects so n-count is no different, make for the best plates. Not too dominant but not entirely submissive.

The "Cumdumpster":HB0-6(mostly 0-4) These women go to parties with one thing in one mind, to find a nice warm sausage to slide inside them. They are so loose that fucking them is like a teaspoon in a tea cup. Regular participants in bukkakes. Get involved in the bukkake and fuck in the toilet, but make sure you wrap that shit up.

You wouldn't date Cdumpster for obvious reasons, Premium is entitled, lacks substance, gets constant attention, is concerned with your status and what she can extract from you.

The Nice Girls you could date, but they need some training, their hoe friends pose a problem, if there's drugs involved avoid.

Personally I'd say just go for more of a sweet blank slated family girl

[-] LiveAFTSOV 0 Points 11 months ago

I dig the list, however the bukakke girl I plated is loose as fuck, gang bangs, partner swaps, everything - but she is a 6/7 in looks.

Very easy - required no work to have sex with her. No game required -- but high N count.

I only think looks affect behaviors in the highest of echelons, everything below that "Super Hot" threshhold is subject to normal slutty party girl behaviors.

[-] Vox-Triarii 162 Points 11 months ago

This is solid advice, it reminds me of things my father told my brothers and I when we were young. It's important to become immediate judges of whose worth the effort and who isn't. I got married decades before I ever heard about RP, but we're still married to this day with 6 children. Why? Because she would definitely be much closer to TS than AD. Almost an outlier on the right-side of the scale.

She was raised in a very traditional environment, as was I, and was an extremely feminine woman overall. There were other women who I could have pursued as well, but my father taught me a series of, "tests" you can do yourself to tell whether someone is, as my father would say, a, "family wife" someone you could build a healthy long term family with. I've considered making a separate post on here about it, even though I know most people on here are more about plate spinning.

[-] rightknobhead 117 Points 11 months ago

Tell us about the tests your father taught. I would find it very useful in my current situation.

[-] SunnysideMorales 69 Points 11 months ago

One of the way I test for "family wife" is what i call a chopstick test. Take her to a Chinese restaurant. Separate the chopstick, then fold the paper pocket that contains the chopstick into a chopstick holder for her, then go to the bathroom. if you come back and she did the same for you, she cares about you too. if you come back and your chopstick is still in its pocket, a plate is a plate.

I am holding you to making that post about test.

[-] rednailz 57 Points 11 months ago

I recall a movie that had something similar, maybe Goodfellas. The guy said you open a woman's door to get in the car then go around and get in yourself. If she popped the door for you before you got there then she's a keeper.

[-] RedPilledGodEmperor 27 Points 11 months ago

The movie where that happened is called A Bronx Tale.

[-] 187oddfuture 10 Points 11 months ago

Can't really work now because practically every car has power locks.

[-] beginner_ 1 Point 11 months ago

Exactly. makes no sense with a modern car.

[-] bitopansad 2 Points 11 months ago

The car test is real. For someone who's used to helping people etc, it would be subconscious. For someone who's used to having their own way in life, they wouldn't. Not just women, it tells you about people in general too.

[-] reluctantly_red 1 Point 11 months ago

The guy said you open a woman's door to get in the car then go around and get in yourself. If she popped the door for you before you got there then she's a keeper.

My ex-wife passed this test. On our first date she slide across the seat of my old 1987 F-150 and unlocked my door. As a bonus she stayed in the middle of the bench seat and snuggled up once I got in. Unfortunately AWALT kicked in six years later. It was nice while it lasted.

[-] reddit_already 42 Points 11 months ago

Take her camping / backpacking / traveling. Observe her challenged and out of natural element. Can she cope? Does she take discomfort in stride? How does she handle inconvenience and stress?

[-] monsieurhire2 10 Points 11 months ago

I have heard this also from other dudes. In my experience, how a woman reacts to any kind of stressor is a good test.

[-] Vilizo 13 Points 11 months ago

I'm not entirely convinced by this. I once dated a girl who was extremely sweet and caring, but often didn't follow politeness cues like this simply because she was absent-minded. I'm not so different either, sometimes I'll not be focusing and forget to hold a door open for a women for example.

[-] SunnysideMorales 20 Points 11 months ago

So she is so absent-minded she forgets about the man she claims she loves? Dont rationalize her behaviors for her. That's how BP men forgives women who absolutely dont appreciate them. When you are in a girl's mind, you can't even breath faster than normal without them noticing. Dont give her excuse.

[-] Vilizo 27 Points 11 months ago

I sometimes forget to open doors for the woman I love. I forget to help with her coat on before putting on mine. I don't neglect this because I don't love her in those moments, I do it because I'm a flawed person and I'm not always on the ball. I'm sure there are many women who are the same.

I'm not saying this to make excuses for women. I'm saying it because I don't think guys should be placing so much stock into small gestures which may say more about their current attention in that moment than their submissiveness.

[-] boundarychimps 7 Points 11 months ago

I've gotten in my car to go to work, and realized I don't have my keys.

I've been driving to work, and realized part way there that I'd forgotten my laptop (yes, I'm in IT).

I've locked myself out of the house.

So she is so absent-minded she forgets about the man she claims she loves?

This is garbage.

[-] SunnysideMorales -2 Point 11 months ago

Context...there is a difference between forgetting your key and being absent-minded on a date. She shouldn't be absent-minded around you.

[-] bitopansad -1 Point 11 months ago

I'll tell you why this is hamstering, and nothing else. Tell me of the times the BP cucks would do everything there is to be done for a girl, stuff new and old alike, while a girl would just blame it on her absent-mindedness. Hell, my LTR (who I'm trying to plate) used to be absent-minded or so I think. TRP and 8 months down the line, she's doing things she'd never blink an eye for earlier. Sometimes, it almost becomes a master -slave kinda situation too. Absent mindedness out of the fucking window.

[-] stonepepe 8 Points 11 months ago

I would love to learn these tests!!

[-] trpgeorge 5 Points 11 months ago

Would also love to hear his "tests"
At that point in my life where im looking for exactly this kind of guidance

[-] MrAnderzon 5 Points 11 months ago

Make the post. The people have spoken

[-] GarandTheftAvto 3 Points 11 months ago

Please share your test or other thoughts and analysis on family wife stuff. The board is younger and skews towards plating which is fair (and I’m young myself). But in addition to my mission and family, plating is important to me as a game to find a wife eventually to start a family of my own. I would love to hear your thoughts on this- PM, response, post, whatever.

[-] monsieurhire2 2 Points 11 months ago

Yes, I think you should talk about these tests. Plenty of us fools who still want to start a family on here, even if it means not getting married.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] Vilizo 4 Points 11 months ago

They'll be everywhere, but we're speaking particularly of girls who have been raised with traditional principles so you'll find a higher concentration in more rural areas, and church.

[-] BeeBopJoe 1 Point 11 months ago

I am very intrigued by these tests bro. You should for sure make a post on it.

[-] Flintblood 1 Point 11 months ago

Yes. I think you’ll find a lot of people here interested in your “family wife” tests, even if they weren’t looking for marriage.

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 11 months ago

Wow your father sounds like a great man. Do you think it is difficult to find women like this in the west? I say this because of feminism and other social constructs etc.

[-] Poutvora 0 Points 11 months ago

Can you please notify me when you do the post? Thanks

[-] SunnysideMorales 23 Points 11 months ago

it is possible to eventually train most of these women if you have good game and excel at Operant Conditioning but with so many women who are naturally submissive, why bother?

That, and seriously, do you really want to spend the time of your life fixing a woman? While taking on the risk that if you fail to fix her you are subjected to a lifetime of misery? Be rational. Taking on a challenge is one thing, taking on a stupid challenge is another thing.

Yes, you will still need to know game and still need to know how to keep her chasing and investing in you no matter how submissive she is

I argue that your game has to be even more on point with submissive women. Think about it, if you are giving into someone's frame, would you rather give in to a strong frame, or a weak frame? Look at all the betas orbiting around an AD, while alpha men take on the nerdy girl that no one looks at (yes, alpha men tend to have LTRs with "lesser" women, girls no one notice, if you don't see that already you are not spending enough time in the real world). An AD woman can date a beta (although she still wants to fuck an alpha, but AD won't date alpha) because her strong frame allows her to manipulate the beta into doing things for her. But a TS girl will only date & fuck alpha, while absolutely repulsed by beta, because since she has weak-frame, her happiness depends entirely on the dominance of the alpha. The TS mentality doesn't allow her to think that she can manipulate the men she date, only validate herself to him. She is like a beta man, orbiting around the strongest frame she can find, and find happiness in validating herself to alpha. The more submissive a woman become, the more she hates it if her man turns out to be a beta. Why do you think men were more alpha back in the day women were more submissive? A submissive woman won't tolerate leakage of emotions, signs of weakness, because that tells her that she submits to a lesser man. A dominance woman will encourage you to be more emotional, because that allows her to manipulate you.

How many men have found joy in dating a submissive woman? Now how many of those men one day wake up next to a dominant? All women are submissive at the beginning. It is up to you when she will become the woman you hate- when will you let yourself become the kind of men she hates?

[-] The_Phoenecian -1 Point 11 months ago

I'm curious as to what you mean about alpha men tending to have LTRs with "lesser" women. Could you elaborate?

[-] SunnysideMorales 3 Points 11 months ago

Guys who are high in SMV date girls with way lower SMV. Guys who hook up with beautiful women but once he dates you look at him as if he's out of his damn mind. Alpha men is more experienced with women, so they judge women better. They know that beautiful women have the world at their feet so they are too entitled for a LTR to work. And they know it's a fool's errand spending time trying change a woman (you can do it, just not the best use of an alpha's time). they know by heart that looks are like makeup, only last for a night, the most important thing is she obeys his will. So you end up having alpha settling with the girl even betas dont pay attention to. Of course not all submissive women are less attractive, but what i am saying is that alpha prioritizes submissiveness over look. If you have an alpha dating a smokeshow in the long run it's because she's submissive, not because she's beautiful.

[-] ARUKET 3 Points 11 months ago

Anecdotally I can confirm that lots of the natural alpha guys I know hook up with really hot chicks but when it comes to finding an LTR it's usually a really timid and sweet girl who might not be as hot as the others but sure as hell is a way better companion.

[-] The_Phoenecian 1 Point 11 months ago

Thanks for the reply, idk why I got downvoted lol I was genuinely curious about your point. I think what you're saying is very true. The looks are great for a while, but you date the person, not just the face.

[-] Warped_Mindless -2 Point 11 months ago

Not that you are wrong but the way I train women is though operant conditioning and more specifically interment reinforcement. A big part of that is removing attention from a women when she acts up so back when I did fuck difficult women I actually had tons of free time because I was constantly soft nexting them for days at a time. But yeah, just don't bother with difficult women

[-] Revo_Luzione 17 Points 11 months ago

Once you learn how to handle a very difficult woman the more submissive ones are cake.

Good advice. Maintaining frame with a difficult, domineering woman is indeed akin to a mental-emotional jijitsu match.

Ideally, it is your unshakable frame that blows up the relationship when it inevitably detonates. Most of these difficult and domineering women will never submit to a man. She taps out when you force her to withdraw on your terms, while you maintain frame. This is excellent training in maintaining boundaries and standards of behavior.

Of course, sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and it's better to tap out, take the L, and charge it to the game.

[-] pisspoordecisions 16 Points 11 months ago

100% on point.

Deal with a psycho girl for a little bit and you can handle ANYTHING. It’ll make any problems you have with a low maintenance girl minuscule in comparison.

I had a psycho chick as my main plate for around...5 months. Chick was absolutely delusional, selfish, and mean - but a fantastic lay. She continues to blame her attitude problems on depression and anxiety - sorry but those aren’t excuses for being a shitty person (and I’m not just saying that. Chick was a total bitch to me all the time, and I’d call her out for it). When I finally couldn’t deal with it anymore, she suddenly wanted to be nice to me - too little too late.

I’m in a LTR now with a chick who’s about as low maintenance as it gets, no issues with her whatsoever. Couldn’t be happier. It takes a lot of patience and filtering to find someone worth being with

[-] MattyAnon 10 Points 11 months ago

Absolute Dominance (AD) / Submissiveness (TS). / Every single women you meet will be somewhere on that scale.

Sexually speaking, 99% of women are submissive.

I've tried for decades to find and date more sexually dominant women, and found almost none. All that I've met fall into two categories: old and/or fat using fake dominance to get into a niche with more choice of men. These are common in BDSM circles that are desperate to attract women, any women. These women are still sexually submissive at heart, but by adopting a sexually dominant persona they can hook in more men than otherwise, and enjoy being in a position of being desired within a sexual niche despite their otherwise lack attractiveness. The second type is the suffered-massive-trauma-and-scared-to-submit type, ie extensive physical abuse. These women do get genuinely turned on by dominating men. And they're fucking crazy.

Of course this is sexually. Plenty of women are controlling/dominant socially and why the fuck any man would put up with this is beyond me.

[-] MiniChipper 9 Points 11 months ago

I'd add home schooled Christian girls. They value Male leadership. My LTR (wife of 16 years) owned her own business but when we had kids she cut back, and I (also self employed) put in more hours to grow my business so we could maintain a good standard of living.

Many of her women friends are jealous because we never used day care. Her motherly duties came first. I give her dad credit he raised her right because, she isn't a push over, but in our house "Father knows best"

[-] dulkemaru51 1 Point 11 months ago

Did you present yourself as AF from the beginning and threw in some BB as you, through the vetting process, realized that she was LTR material?

AWALT AF = tingles BB = commitment

Did she make you wait and was she the type to make everyone wait because she was brought up to appreciate BB or was it some kind of mix?

I'm interested because I want a family one day.

[-] MiniChipper 2 Points 11 months ago

This will be a long answer, but I'll try to keep it simple and expand if needed.

There was no red pill back then, and internet was still in its infancy, if I had access to all this info then I may have played longer.

When we met I was just out of college, and had continual girlfriends (plates today) but never more than 2 and usually it was one with an overlap with another.

When I asked her out I was banging someone, but my wife was/is much hotter than the girl who was my gf at the time. During the first date my wife reveals she is a home schooled Christian girl. I think this was her shit test. To see if I'd leave. For whatever reason I was intriqued. Partially because I was out of college and had considered settling down, but knew if I did it wasn't going to be with any of the dumb bimbos I'd been seeing.

Back then it seemed every chick was deep in debt and was trying to fuck their way out. AWALT. AND my wife is a legit 8-9, now and back then she was a 9-10 depending on whose scoring.

Yes she did make me wait, but in a strange way. She never asked if I had other girls. I didn't hide it, but I didn't throw it in her face. For the first six months we would see each other, but never get more than a kiss, and I would if needed find a random here and there. During this time I decided that if I was going to have a LTR this would be the one.

So we started talking, and she brought up that we hadn't discussed me seeing other girls. She didn't care about it, but if we were going to go down the path toward marriage that ended now (I haven't been with anyone else since)

I still had to wait another year until we were married to have sex, which I self admit was nuts, because what if it sucked. I always kept the divorce option in my pocket if that would've been the case. But we pretty much did everything else and she was/is wild (kinda like those catholic school girls are rumored to be) so I wasn't too worried.

The one thing that I might have changed had I been more aware and older is, I am very sure she had decided on me almost immediately and I could've probably kept it up just casually seeing her for another 4-5 years and having side gals. Even now I think I could go get some strange and she'd get over it, but;

  1. I don't have the energy
  2. I like to keep my word

Lastly this isn't for everyone. I can really see the "plating" side too. You really need to be sure you want a LTR, but just my two cents if you want an LTR, home schooled Christian girls are the way to go. FYI she has two sisters that are the same as her and they've been married 22 and 25 years respectively and they serve their men too.

[-] dulkemaru51 1 Point 11 months ago

Thanks for the response!

I've been trying to find out what others think about this. This is the core of my question, if it wasn't clear already:

Women are sexually attracted to Alpha traits, that is one of their innate needs. They also want commitment, giving commitment is a Beta trait. Sexual attraction is never to the Beta, meaning that commitment simply isn't sexual, it's a NEED just like sexual attraction, but it isn't sexually attractive in itself. Women don't usually look for both AF and BB in the same man because of today's culture.

So, what I'm trying to find out is if girls who are raised by a primarily Alpha father who is also committed to their mother, like the home schooled christian girls you mention for example, become programmed in their childhoods to look for AF and BB in the same man.

I'm wondering if your wife making you wait means that she saw you as an Alpha who gave her tingles, but that she was prepared to let you walk because she demanded commitment before sex or if she automatically saw/sees you as a Beta because you indeed waited. No offense.

I get that there are women who will make pretty much everyone wait because of their value systems or whatever it may be, but my preoccupation with that is that it may entail them to be destined to marry Betas only... Like, she makes you wait but therefore you are a Beta in her eyes (and that is what she wants) OR she sees you as an Alpha but still makes you wait.

I've been seeing this girl for almost a couple of months. No sex. She's had one LTR in her life and he's her only sexual partner this far. She says that she refuses to fuck outside of an LTR. I think that I've been gaming her well; she is giggly, touchy, following me around like a puppy, made me food the time we were at her place and all that shit that would imply that she is deep in my frame and I keep it sexual and light, taking as much action as I can every time. I've been getting advice here saying that she'll peg me as her BB if and when I commit and that she's probably lying about her N = 1 and about her "sex is for relationships".

I don't know... No need to answer this but how's your sex life nowadays, after having been together for 16 years? Do you reckon that you're her hawt Alpha after agreeing to putting a ring on her finger before getting sex?

I'm wondering how the "high quality" women with low N-counts stay that way unless they make even the Alphas wait. I mean, if they weren't capable of resisting tingles, they'd be used up by the time they're 20.

Plating is fun but I definitely want kids someday, it's one of my main goals in life, BUT, I absolutely refuse to have any outside of a stable LTR (no legal marriage). I'm willing to give that dream up unless I'm sure (as sure as one can be) that it's going to last. No split home for my kids, fuck that.

[-] SteveRogersPill 8 Points 11 months ago

Really good post... my first LTR was a fuckin headache and she was AD. She used to tell me “you don’t run shit I do” which I would respond with “that’s cute, you think you’re in charge” but she honestly would be a pain in my ass all the time

[-] tteabag2591 5 Points 11 months ago

This reminds me of a small complaint I had been meaning to bring up with the plate spinners. Something I've noticed that happens sometimes is the plate spinning types will purposefully spin the submissive types who would have otherwise made good spouses and spin them into the aggressive and dominant types when they inevitably reflect on how they let some guy use them like that. This naturally results in less options for the guys looking to start families.

So the dilemma is, is plate spinning fucking with the pool of sumbissives? I think so and that presents a bit of a problem. The solution is likely to just screen really hard and be picky about women to avoid the used goods. Sad but that's just how it's going to be these days.

[-] SpaceEnthusiast 4 Points 11 months ago

I've heard of it being described as the "camp ground rule" - leave her at least as well off as you found her. So if she's more fucked up than before she met you, you've fucked up.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] Poutvora 4 Points 11 months ago

If anyone is interested more about this topic, David Deida in one of his books: The Way Of The Superior Man talks about this. His theory is that you should pick one these women types based on your type. That way, you keep a balance in the relationship. If you are dominant and also is she - you are both going to have a hard time.

[-] Your_Coke_Dealer 3 Points 11 months ago

AWALT, but some women behave “like that” a lot less frequently or readily.

[-] Entropy-7 3 Points 11 months ago

I recall this first date I went out on a few years back. She was smart, pretty, sexy, and funny. However, there were this little things that popped up over the course of the evenings. To call them "red flags" would be an overstatement. They were things I could handwave or gloss over for an evening, but I could tell that there was no LTR potential and an STR would have been more trouble than it was worth. So the moment of truth happens as we are wrapping things up and she says "So where do we go from here?" or something to that effect.

I said "I like you but I think we would annoy the hell out of each other."

She said "Ya, I guess you are right."

We parted on good terms but never communicated again.

Sometimes you just have to say "no".

[-] sadomasochrist 2 Points 11 months ago

This post falls for a number of "purple pill" (blue pill) tropes. The first of which is using her as your mechanism of control, rather than you. This is an external locus of control disguised as an internal locus.

Secondly, you're "hunting" for some fraction of 1% woman. It's better to just assume she doesn't exist.

She won't be naturally submissive for a limp wrist, and even the most dominant women fold for the right guy.

The exceptions to the rule are women who are personality disordered, and they'll give you enough red flags. So many that at the end she'd easily say "what did you think was going to happen? didn't you see the spikes and the bright purple hair?"

Lastly, this is all positioned in a way that puts her into an investment paradigm rather than her being part of your mission.

Ultimately, if she's a plate or she's properly sorted within your life, how she acts is less important than what she brings you. If she stops bringing you want you want or need out of the relationship, you let her drift away from your boat.

Vetting is close to useless. You basically get no assurance, of anything, when you go long. The best you can do is avoid red flags. And then what? You can find skeletons in the closet.

More or less, this thread is a sign to me that you haven't entirely digested the content. The more you understand the content here, the less you care about frameworks and mechanisms for a relationship.

This is not red pill theory. If you want to rebrand this for the LTR tag, I suppose there'd be some minimal, remedial applicability to readers. But ultimately this is feel good material for guys that don't want to put the needle down.

[-] Rian_Stone 3 Points 11 months ago

Naw, I say you nailed it. Unicorn hunting, plain and simple

[-] Warped_Mindless 1 Point 11 months ago

Not unicorn hunting really, just recognizing that some women are more trouble than they are worth and that its not a good idea to do anything more than use them for quick sex.

[-] Rian_Stone 0 Points 11 months ago

None of your post reflects that sentiment. Why not?

[-] mambo_matt 2 Points 11 months ago

Damn your last sentence hit home like a mother fucker. My ex is far left. I keep her around for this exact reason. Straight practice. Everytime we hang out, I apply what I learn on her. And it works, tbh. Long story short after reading trp for a few months, I've been noticing changes in how I act around woman. The ex definitely has noticed too. She saw me get a couple messages from some Tinder bitches and tried to make me feel like shit. Old me would've coward in the corner. Present me said, "were not together, I do what I want. Get over it. I'm not stopping you from doing the same." She fucked my brains out that night.

Thing is, being able to hold frame towards someone you used to let bring you down is very helpful. To me at least. Some say that's orbiting well I say fuck you, I do what I want. I have other girls that want me and that I've also been with but I keep still keep her around. If it means having that friend that's around for a shag every now and then and some good trp practice, I'm all for it. Plus she's cool lol especially now that I don't give a fuck what she thinks.

[-] CreatedItJust2Saythi 2 Points 11 months ago

Very good advice.

Regarding this I suggest that you save a special place within your mindset for implementing the following logic:

"Female inferiority requires hypergamy and monogamy (inferiority is linked to hypergamy and monogamy, since 'there can only be 1 male winner'). Female inferiority's hypergamy and monogamy ('there can only be 1 male winner') require MALE SUPERIORITY'S HYPOGAMY AND POLYGAMY ('the 1 male winner will have to breed all the hypergamous, inferior females')"

Women pick superior men. So be a superior man and pick inferior, submissive, sexual, superior man-picking plates for your harems.

Copying myself:

"Your male genes are programed to want women just for sex cause your male superiority doesn't need anything better from them.

If it's you and not her on top of the pedestal, then your self (own)-sufficiency will need no else pedestalized self-sufficient one on your side, so you will only be interested in her as long as she's a mere worthless cumslut.

That is, in order to win your attention and sexual interest, she'll have to pay a price: that of being a worthless cumslut. In order to win her pedestal in front of you, she'll have to pay another price: that of losing your attention and sexual interest, since you're already on top of another pedestal as well and you need no one's superiority or self-sufficiency but your own (you only accept her pussy)."

Make yourself happy and forget about 'superior', dominant women, since THEY ARE NOT SEXY, and so they aren't worth your interest or time, and your male superiority only wants sexual women. Male superiority's attributes (hypogamy and polygamy) ARE NOT SEXY IN WOMEN: this is why promiscuous, high n-count women ARE NOT SEXY.

As well as trying to convert a 'superior', dominant woman to female submissiveness might even be illegal. However it's not illegal to PREFER and select submissive, sexual women.

So let your male superiority select inferior women, just like female inferiority is hypergamous and selects superior men. Be the female inferiority-preferring superior man female inferiority's hypergamy prefers (and needs).

Just like your observation determines and creates your observed world, your preferences and choices determine and create your preferred world.

(Read my comments).

[-] illumi019 1 Point 11 months ago

I agree, agree, agree! Infact you’ve made me realise I’ve been doing this subconsciously!

There are really hot women out there that I just wouldn’t like to settle with even if she wanted me bcos I know with her character they’ll be trouble down the line. Even if I’ll be able to deal with it well, bcos I want a stress free life!

[-] NormalAndy 1 Point 11 months ago

I like the career woman. She used to be dominant- now she works for me!

[-] HumanSockPuppet 1 Point 11 months ago

Relationship management is mostly a bitch's problem.

The only things you need concern yourself with are promoting women correctly through the Bitch Management Hierarchy, and then executing good "control game", which Whisper and I will cover in an upcoming theory post.

[-] Warped_Mindless 1 Point 11 months ago

Kinda what my post says :).

Some women are more trouble than they are worth so you don't ever get into any type of LTR with those girls while you promote women who are less maintence.

[-] Alpha_Jedi 1 Point 11 months ago

Learning your Game efficiency is critical. It saves time, effort and energy. It's a parallel to how predators hunt in the wild, one must have focus, persistence, learn from failure and master their efficiency. Cheers.

[-] metallicdrama 1 Point 11 months ago

I think you mean not choosing the most wrong woman. There is not right woman.

[-] mrybczyn 1 Point 11 months ago

Where were you 25 years ago?

[-] Fedor_Gavnyukov 1 Point 11 months ago

i can attest to this. my very first relationship of a few years was with a very strong personality girl. we loved each other to death but also every fight was a fucking nuclear holocaust. she would never budge and me being a wall myself created a lot of conflict

[-] GhostVanguard 1 Point 11 months ago

There is no right wommyn. Only interchangeable wimmjns

[-] [deleted] 0 Points 11 months ago

Pro tip, be careful not to turn her into the one that left you.

[-] RedPillAtNight 0 Points 11 months ago

I’m dealing with this a bit now. My gal has an Ivy League finance degree, MBA and then got her MD. Super high emotional intelligence. Her dad raised her to be dominant and in charge, and she’s always picked men she could dominate (and is then surprised she lost attraction to them). Her ex husband is a typical left wing beta male Prius driving pussy. Smart dude, but she just got sick of having to do everything.

Now she finds how wonderful it is to have someone take charge and it’s making her schizophrenic. She loves how it feels with me but her logical brain is driving her crazy not being in charge.

She’d be perfect if she’d just relax but I’m not sure she can get there. We have a great time together but when I’m not around she rationalizes a 1000 reasons it’s not right. Her social conditioning is fighting her biology and winning.

[-] SpaceEnthusiast 0 Points 11 months ago

What if you let her dominate in some areas of your relationship while you dominate in others? Or you can play switch. You can be dominant the majority of the time, but say, one day a week you are like, ok hunny you take the wheel now.

[-] RedPillAtNight 1 Point 11 months ago

Might be fun if we can get there. I can really only see her on the weekends so she’s in charge at her place most of the week.

At this point she’s still too uncomfortable with the whole thing to commit to a real LTR. It’s all stuff just in her head. I tease her about her indecision but in reality it will kill the relationship if she doesn’t figure it out soon. If she decides that this is really for her we can try these variations but until then we sort of “get in our cocoon” on the weekend and fly solo during the week.

[-] SpaceEnthusiast 1 Point 11 months ago

Do you think you might be pushing a little too much for a LTR? Maybe if you pull back somewhat she might start to come closer?

[-] RedPillAtNight 1 Point 11 months ago

I actually have lately. We are both nearly 60 and I’m looking for someone to grow old with. Long story short she may not be the one. It would work for me but she is still unsure. We are almost a year in and I’m not waiting forever.

[-] Tiberiusaurus 0 Points 11 months ago

Great post. The only wrinkle is I have known a lot of women who seem like they are extreme AD and even think they are AD but once you get to know them are actually extreme TS.

You can’t always tell a book by its cover in this case

[-] CypressSmallz -2 Point 11 months ago

I don’t think this is entirely true. The girl I’m currently seeing is almost 95% dominant, but I broke her rather quickly. She’s still a dominant person but she is obedient to me.

A better scale would be Obedient vs Disobedient

[-] TheEnglishman28 -3 Point 11 months ago

The best relationship management is abundance, not choosing one.