About me: Red Pill 5+years. Age: 33. Confirmed Kills: 84
I had been spinning plates successfully for years, until one day a unicorn appeared. After a thorough screening process and with close reference to HumanSockPuppets; Bitchmanagement, the unthinkable happened – promotion to LTR.
I have to ask myself, why, if I know and understand the risks am I willing to enter in to an LTR? Answer; after cost benefit analysis, the reward is worth the risk (to me) CURRENTLY.
Anyway, I was answering a question on askTRP about the concept of “being in-love” and love and the concept of actually loving a girl is a bit of a taboo subject around here, so I think it may be worth discussion.
Thesis; the concept of “being in love” is for YOUR FEELZ.
I have these thoughts when I’m with my girl that I want to tell her how much I love her and care for her. I rationalise to myself, it’s for her, so she knows, because she needs to know, and I’m doing this because I’m such a NICE GUY. But really, it’s because I want to hear those words said back to ME, to reassure ME.
If I accept the above; that it’s not for her, it’s for my own dumb emotional rush, my own chance to indulge myself in the dopamine Disney fantasy. Does she on some level, conscious or not also understand this? Which would make my move dishonest and beta, and therefore a turn-off.
If I am actually red pill and understand that being “in love” to me, is not what it is for her, and that by expressing that emotional instability or reliance is a suicidal move for the relationship.
I know in order to actually be in a healthy relationship then indulging in this is NOT SOMETHING I’m allowed to do. If that is true, then what is an honest and true expression of love?
The true way to love your girl is how your father loved his daughter; kiss on the fore-head, calm love. The rock. Not some emotional junkie wanting to get his endorphins, or some retard on the phone, endlessly repeating, no you hang up.
If you want to express how much you love your woman, the correct way is to improve your SMV, thus making her respect and desire you more <-which is in part, the response you wanted from telling her you "love her".
Therefore perhaps, the desire to "express love" for a woman should be done on a micro level towards SMV improvement; go for that run / to the gym -> eventually leading to improved physique which in turn makes her desire you more than currently.Or, studying for that exam, eventually leads to passing the exam and qualification = improved status, thus making her respect you more.
Thinking about it, the "cheap" and easy way of expressing "love" is VERBALLY. In this case ACTIONS definitely speak louder than words, and it makes sense, just telling a girl how much you love her / are in love with her, requires 0 effort, therefore why would you expect her to value it?????
What takes real grit and determination would be to take your own SMV to the next level. Whilst hers is very likely to be stagnant or slowly declining - the difference you make in yours should result in furthering her - dating / marrying up - which is a woman's true imperative: to cling to the branch highest in her reach!
When to say “I love you”??? – another thought; if you are going to say the 3 magic words, when is a good time? Hollywood / Disney would have us believe it’s after some relationship breakdown, then re-construction OR in an extremely beta “you’re the only one” type Disney way.
I can only think of two ways that saying “I love you” are ever appropriate;
Firstly, in that Dad love way, calmly with 4head kiss, as she sits in your lap like a child. It’s a reassuring comment. It doesn’t require a response, you are still outcome independent.
Secondly, after completely degrading her sexually, again she will naturally come to you in a childlike manner, at which point saying the magic words I think would be OK. Someone once said, that the more degrading you are sexually to a partner, the more she will hamster her “love” for you, otherwise why would she allow you to cum all over her face and lick it off?!?
Other thoughts; women desire mystery, and understand that this is a game, and, in general understand the rules much better than men do (see divorce invitation rates, and surveys on whether genders consider themselves married to “the one” for reference). If I then say “I love you” have I just ended the game and removed all mystery? Is it fair to assume women like playing the game, and that by essentially saying you’re “in-love with her” is like letting her win?
If that is true, and women hate losers, how do I win? Maintain 2/3 text rule, with regard to the magic words.
Criticism 1: Why would you want to express love for a woman by improving your SMV, shouldn’t you do EVERYTHING for YOURSELF ONLY?!
Response: I’ve been grappling with this in my mind for a while now. I don’t want to present myself as a beta-bitch provider, but if I’m in an LTR I certainly want it to be as good as I can make it. Does trying to improve my own SMV, IN PART to make my woman respect/desire me more, make me a supplicating bitch?
Criticism 2: Why would you waste so much time thinking about this? What are you a beta?
Response: No. But I do care, that much I have to admit and be honest with myself about, and more importantly understand that, I’m putting myself in harm’s way INTENTIONALLY. Therefore continuous cost benefit analysis must be conducted to be sure that this disregard for my own health is still worth the risk / reward, and be willing to walk away, if necessary - if you feel the HEAT (see the MOVIE) gotta be willing to walk away. (side note the way De Niro describes this in the MOVIE is a pretty good way of thinking about a relationship and the whole walking away idea)
Conclusion: Only say the magic words sparingly, maintain the 2/3 text rule. Try not to “end the game” and remove all mystery by over elaborating on HOW MUCH you love her. Only express love from full on Dad-mode or, after sexual degradation. If in doubt, keep your mouth shut and improve your SMV.
Cosmosus_ 5y ago
True love is not reciprocal.
TacoFalconSupreme 5y ago
Hey Man! This post is Gold, and just what I needed after getting out of a hellish relationship 3 months ago. Do you have any further reading that you recommend?
Jampak_5000 5y ago
Humansockpuppet wrote; bitch management. It’s one of the most important pieces on trp. Find the original post and the expanded one.
OfficerWade 5y ago
There’s two sides to the game. Red pill or blue pill. Just be aware of which frame you’re operating in.
KanDeMan2 5y ago
I've been thinking about this a lot...but in the opposite direction...
I'm a recovering Beta that has been married for 20 years.....I've had to learn one thing the very hard way from this forum and that is that you can never listed to what women say...you can only rely on what they do....
If that is the case.....and it is......Once a woman stops fucking you, she stops loving you....period.
So while men can only express their love by improving their SMV....Women can only express their love by physically loving their man.
rpsheepdog 5y ago
This is a good post. I think the biggest problem for most guys getting into the LTR game is going to understand that the way you love her, she fundamentally doesn't understand what you are doing for her. OP describes improving yourself which is 100% accurate, but your girl won't see it like that, it's a long-term strategy.
Gotta fight the urge to go billy-beta when she is asking all those "do you love me and only me" type questions, especially when she is on her period. As TRP states, women love a mystery, so let that hamster work for you instead of against you.
[deleted] 5y ago
I agree, but I fail to come up with any appropriate response for "do you love me and only me" or other similar shit which indicates we "were meant to be", especially when she's in one of her bitchy emotional moods.
Any ideas on how to respond to that appropriately without triggering her shitstorm? Usually sarcasm or agree and amplify strategies would be my favourite, but I can only deflect it for so long before she notices.
Jampak_5000 5y ago
I think just hold frame & agree and amplify- if it’s constant it sounds like a shit test. So, just , hold , frame.
fischbrot 5y ago
allow for the shit storm to happen
avoiding it is beta
accepting the course is alpha
imho
[deleted] 5y ago
I feel like you're on to something there, but I'd like for you to elaborate on what you mean by that, if that's okay.
fischbrot 5y ago
sure buddy
let's say you go to a concert with your chick
she says
I want to sit at the center slightly higher. with a martini and a good position to take pictures and post on social media.
you want to be dead center. wall of death. stage diving and shout your guts out.
honey naah I m going in. c u later. maybe I come by your location if i bla bla bla
i am not sitting around like that
guess what happens
you either have a blast and you should have
or you play her pussy power game
when you play your game guess who has a moaning bitch and no sex?
are you YOU?
substitute any social interaction to the above example.
it is you you have to put first
if she ain't down with it then it's her problem. yolo
[deleted] 5y ago
I get what you're saying. Thank you for taking the time. :)
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Field_Of_View 5y ago
no, in case she starts taking it for granted or reads it as a sign of neediness.
bot256 5y ago
This is absolutely a post I needed right now - it focuses on a side of inter-sexual dynamics that is rarely covered by TRP posts. I used to be a very beta BP person and for my Disney love was nearly the objective of my life (guess what that led to). Understanding how to hold yourself when in any kind of lengthier relationship with a woman is really important cause there are a lot of guys who are RP that, for whatever reason, don't want to endlessly spin plates and live the bachelor life. That said, LTR really seems like a difficult shit and there's not too much TRP coverage on that.
iamtheswoop 5y ago
Go to MarriedRP, lots of LTR advice from guys in LTRs and how to maintain them. There is actually a treasure trove of information
omega_dawg93 5y ago
my girl wants to hear it all the time... like when we hang up: "ok bye... i love you."
i NEVER reply in kind and rarely tell her that i love her. instead, i tell her that when those emotions arise, i will be verbal about them... and ONLY at that time so you know it's genuine.
that's simply my truth and my way of being. i believe in being authentic.
she replied, "but what if i just need to hear it?" to which i replied, "then, you are asking for performative emotions; i am not an actor."
Master_Elrond 5y ago
I like this idea, thanks. I've been dropping too many "I luv u 2s" recently (she just bombards me with them and I can only deflect so many) and need to sharpen up.
omega_dawg93 5y ago
if you feel obligated to reply and it's not a genuine response, i wouldn't do it. but that's my way.
you can "fake it till you make it" with other stuff (and some can with their emotions) but i can't do it.
Minhha0510 5y ago
Expressing your love for a woman by raising your SMV = spot on man.
1) Rollo said: Men do, women talk.
2) It reminds me about an old social contract: if a man wants to go from good to great, then he must have a reason greater than himself to fight for. Often enough, that reason will be important people in your life. At the surface, it might look contradicting to the first principle of TRP: “Make yourself your own mental point of origin.” But it is not, in my opinion, it complements to the old social contract. Throughout the course of history, men build and invent stuffs to make his life, the life of people around him better. This plus with the white-knight impulse built in us and the fact that human is a sociable animal makes sense that men can fight stronger and better when he has a greater reason than himself. Now where it could go wrong is that reason is centred around a particular girl (ONE-itis) rather than a collective of important people to the man. That where the core principle of TRP “make yourself your own mental point of origin” comes in nicely.
KilluaKanmuru 5y ago
Great insight. To be a high value man and finding the time in all your world crusading glory to still give her attention is the love she wants.
AlfredKinsey 5y ago
Re: Criticism 1. According to JBP, men are motivated by images of beautiful women. I embrace that about myself and don't see any harm in being motivated, so long as I am being rational about how much I am entering another person's frame or sacrificing for them.
In b4 anti-JBP shit... I get it.
neonsweaters 5y ago
This post is right in line with JBP's male and female archetype so I think this is a great post. The male focuses on himself to reach his "goal" or whatever; the female gets her "beast". I don't think the beast is only referring to a dangerous or unruly man, but in general, to a man with power. The part in this post that makes him 'unruly' is his improving for himself. This makes peace with both sexes imperatives.
TheTrenTrannyTrain 5y ago
Great post, I remember saving your response from the askTRP question because it's a different take on LTR.
I remember there was an old post by a user named ultimatecad or ultimatechad, that he only says the 3 magic words during sex with his wife. That was his way to train her to fuck for comfort, which seemed to have worked for him.
As for improving your SMV to increase the gap, I don't believe it's beta as long as you understand that you're also happy to see yourself improve. I love hitting the gym, bang out that last rep to see my lifts go up, as well as put on more mass. Does that make me beta if my LTR inadvertently finds my SMV goes up? I don't believe so because I'm going to the gym for myself.
Jampak_5000 5y ago
I’m happy you liked it, cheers. I thought there would be a chance I’d get ripped to shreds for writing something like this, but as it turns out, most comments have been positive or at least constructive.
I’m pleasantly surprised that a concept like this is alive and well amongst us and it confirms again; we dnt hate women, if we did the comment section for this post would be completely different
the red pill continues to be one the most active and best idea sharing places on the planet, were so lucky to have it.
the_toxic_bug 5y ago
am i the only one who use the magic words sarcasticaly, when she was bullshitting I just say "yeah yeah i love you too"
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Jampak_5000 5y ago
I think this is a gem; something I hadn’t thought of at all. sarcasm is something I use constantly with girls to flirt. The magic words don’t have to be serious like you say. Nice input.
Edit: the more I think about it, the more I think this is true. No need to make “I love you” such a serious thing.
Incorporating it in to normal flirting And keeping it light seems like a great idea. I think it’s a dad mode variant; dads have definitely said “I love you” playfully to their daughters.
ghosts_of_me 5y ago
In one of my old relationships we never once said "i love you", but we said "i hate you" instead, and we both knew what it meant. It was a really nice way to dodge the woo-woo-ness of the L word and stay funny and flirty at once.
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redd_reality 5y ago
"indulging in love" is actually placing emotional dependence on another person. It is a fundamental unwillingness to bear the weight of your own traumatic experience and integrate them mentally, emotionally and physically.
If you ever feel like you just wanna curl into a ball and latch on to anyone, it is because you are suffering internally. The only reason you're suffering is because you cannot connect to the stillness in your body. You can't do this because your unconscious mind is rousing you to ensure whatever trauma that occurred, doesn't occur again.
So, clear out your trauma. Meditate, breathe, listen to the nagging inside you. Let it claw its way to the surface and foster it's release by not holding anything back. Scream, puke, cry, choke, flail, punch, kick, drool. Do whatever the fuck you need to do to lift the weight of the trauma.
Afterwards you will be able to enjoy the moment to a greater degree. You will be able to be happy with the silence and stillness of the present moment. Show me a man who is alpha, independent, resilient, tough, compassionate, enduring, strong and even ruthless when he has to be and you will show me a man who has stricken himself to his core, emotionally. He has released and integrated all of his traumatic experience, rendering himself no longer burdened by it and able to understand it on and in every level of his being.
So, when you say "indulge in love" what you mean is relying on external, sources to sooth you from your own torment. You're right, don't do that. That is weakness, that is dishonesty, that is cowardice.
Do the emotional work so that you can look at all others, especially women, who have endured much suffering, with compassion. You can do this because you have treated yourself with the ultimate compassion - you've given yourself the space to heal and become whole.
The compassionate man is he who is truly content with silence and stillness and doesn't want to leave it because he knows nothing is as good as the feeling of his own being, without distraction. This is the pinnacle of alpha. This is the source of all frame. This is your own manifestation of your truest self. This is the starting point all the other things you want in your life, including women will flow in abundance as a result of this.
relaxed-focus 5y ago
I've been in a funk all day and this is exactly what I needed to snap back to reality. Thank you for understanding.
Master_Elrond 5y ago
As long as you understand that an LTR is still just a turn (albeit more of a season's pass as opposed to a wrist stamp), maintain outcome independence and keep her hamster's cardio on point you'll be fine. You're obviously a seasoned redpiller and know what you're doing.
tikitheman 5y ago
You can love bomb the shit out of woman especially ltrs. Expressions of love work the same way as attention. You reward them with it when they are being good and you take it away when they are not. 2/3s rule make them earn it rinse repeat.
TheEagleAndTheSnake 5y ago
This. Look up intermittent reinforcement & apply.
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chomponthebit 5y ago
Yesterday I binged on youtube videos about van camper/minihome conversions. A minority were single folks travelling on their own. The majority were younger couples who’d already done the year of backpacking together and were now married. The delight such couples find in one another is palpable, none are obese or unhealthy, they look ALIVE. Granted, they’re producing these videos for youtube hits, but they’re absolutely frank about the downsides of van living, being in that close proximity, how they find places to shit and piss, questions about feminine hygiene, etc.
Some things I noticed: the man does the vast majority of the building and maintenance. In the case a woman is traveling alone, she had fathers and uncles help her build it, if she didn’t pay to have it done. Women do most of the cooking and having a larger, more efficient kitchen is more important to them than to the men.
Even after a year or more of living so close together, let alone the time they’ve been together before then, these couples remain incredibly demonstrative, touchy, giggly.
Maybe it has something to do with actually forming a team and succeeding together. Or maybe they’re all fake. But damn, they’re so fit and happy
KeffirLime 5y ago
Women operate based on their feels. A camper travel lifestyle full of adventures is a sure way to evoke feels in a woman.
A woman with an abundance of feels is generally quite attracted (therefore touchy, giggly)) to the man providing the feelz.
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tempolaca 5y ago
A miserable and shitty couple don't do youtube videos.
[deleted] 5y ago
I gotta admit that it's true.
RightOuttaLeftField 5y ago
new idea for youtube... "The Shit Life". Buy 100,000 fake hits to start it off. Hire two obnoxious Fatties. Hilarity ensues.
[deleted] 5y ago
More like "The Validate My Existence Trough YouTube Videos Life" ?
LiveAFTSOV 5y ago
Best paragraph of the entire thread. Love it.
womans_algorithm 5y ago
My opinion is that, as always, not the words, but context matter. Saying i love u can be goot or bad, depending on why you are saying it.
From reading op's post, i got a feeling he is overthinking the whole thing. What about this, what about that, why such and not alfa? Am i beta for tginking this or that?
Chill out man.
[deleted] 5y ago
Nevertheless, you can't deny there's some solid takeaways from this post.
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StillHigh09 5y ago
I always go trough that cycle: end an LTR - > start spinning plates for couple of months -> LTR comes up(not with a former plate,they dont get promoted) -> end LTR - > start spinning plates...
I never understood why LTR would be a no-no. Just show abundance mentality from the start and let the girl know she can be replaced at any time. Keep doing your thing and let her just enjoy the ride. If it doesnt work out who the fuck cares,you got other options.
Im currently in an LTR and still focus on myself. Spinning plates takes too much time and energy from me. Keeping up an LTR on my rules is optimal. I get my food prepared,house clean,bills split,as much fucking as I want and still got time for myself. I like this girl and enjoy her company for now. Im aware it might end anytime and I couldnt care less. I dont treat her bad tho. Her girlfriends alyways whine about they bfs when they compare them to me.
My only problem with LTR is that I have to fuck one girl(or cheat on her).
dcmcmd 5y ago
Thought-provoking. TRP has a poor rep but there is a lot of good thinking and communicating going on here, often around topics that men are reluctant to engage with in depth with each other in real life.
I think your point about Disney love being a male self indulgence is bang on the money. I can see RP love expressed moreso in your ability to be the sun at the centre of her universe; its workings unknowable to her, a constant presence that she wants for and worships. And the key as we know is to be this because it befits you as a man, not to please her. The sun doesn't burn for any one individual, it just burns.
thepesterman 5y ago
Up vote for confirmed kills
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[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah man, solid post and solid analysis. I think you've got it right. Improving your SMV is always the best course of action when in doubt. It just makes sense, and it just works.
Getting those huge muscles and dressing very well gets you laid, period.
Fear is the root emotion of love, and of hate. Love and hate are essentially the same emotion; fear. You fear losing her, so you "love" her. You fear that guy will beat your ass, so you "hate" him.
Truly indifference is the only emotion that doesn't work in your favour. If she is indifferent about you, then she has more power, and can walk away easier.
But if shes always saying how much she loves you, you have more power, and she needs you to survive. True dependance. Note that you don't have to return the "i love you" for her to keep loving you.
Don't say those words. Express it in action. If you really loved her, aka feared losing her, you'd be improving your SMV so she never lets go of you.
BerserkerBE 5y ago
Nice read. You seem like an intelligent and respectful fellow. I can agree with your responses to the criticism.
I believe you are on the right track and have steered me a bit more to where I want to go mindset-wise. Thanks.
Have a nice day
EDIT: typo
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ebaymasochist 5y ago
It's easier when you become more expressive of other positive emotions at the same time.. You feel secure enough to say "It's a really beautiful day out here" and other things that may seem feminine.. It just shows you have a passion for life. "I love this song" "I love my friends" Food is delicious, not just okay, not "fine".. That movie was fucking amazing.. It's like adding spice to your speech. A guy who talks with passion will not be vulnerable by saying "I love you" to anyone. It's part of being aware of yourself and living life to the fullest. And the guy who loves multiple parts of life has real abundance, the girl cannot break him and will not try.
DeontologicalSanders 5y ago
Good post.
In regard to to critcism 1, I'll admit that's the first thing that jumped into my mind. I think the entire question rests on a false premise. The correct premise is this:
Fuck anyone who tries to make you justify improving yourself.
Men aren't judged on the justification or purpose for their mission.
Men are judged on fucking results. Your quest to maximize you value as a man is nothing you ever have to justify to anyone, for any reason. It's literally no one's business but yours.
swiftexistence 5y ago
Whoever taught people that "unicorn" women were robotic in their responses was misleading, in my opinion. Speaking from the perspective of a woman who has tended to be popular with males (and not a slut), in my present relationship, when my bf first told me he loved me, although I appreciated it immensely, I didn't say it back right then. We stayed in the moment of his loving expression in gratitude. Some days after that, I told him I love him and he didn't reply with words, only gratitude in his eyes and embrace. We have continued in this manner when expressing our feelings towards each other, taking care to not reply with a "me too" or any variant thereof. We have found that it is not necessary and I believe that seeking replies gives power to the ego.
We never discussed this revelation between us, only both inherently realized it, which to me reflects the maturing of our innate human wisdom in this partnership. I wasn't sure that love could be real between two people in a sexual relationship--I assumed it was all a sexual power struggle. And now I think that we are capable of moving beyond this; when both halves of a relationship are working to better themselves (as you suggest you want to do to increase your SMV), with daily training of the mind, body and spirit, then words are only reflections of what both halves already experience in their union: pride in partnership.
jdutches13 5y ago
You said women will let you do more degrading things sexually when they start to love you......maybe.... but if I had to get my next paycheck I would say girls always wanted that kinky shit from the beginning. They just don't wanna come off in the first month looking like a slut....which they are! They are all hoes
iBchyllen247365 5y ago
Just be the shit and do dope shit with your life.
As long as she understands that you come first and you love and respect yourself more than anyone, she just feels an inclination to do the same.
Just be a great version of yourself and you will have a role model/dad vibe in her eyes. Unless she completely has a fucked relationship with her dad.
She could only ever “love” you as much as you love yourself.
Aesthetic_God__ 5y ago
You just helped me find answers to what I've been struggling with for some time now, having the same questions.
I've been doing what you say is right all this time, but my mind kept raising these questions and I wasn't sure if I was on the right track. Thanks.
freshoutofgravitas 5y ago
When my plates that want to be my LTR say "i luvz you"
I reply with "yeah... I love me too"
Jampak_5000 5y ago
This is what I was missing - keeping it flirty - taking the seriousness out of it. There’s another comment here somewhere saying something that he says it in a bullshitting / sarcastic way. Almost like a shit test, with correct answer being agree and amplify, or cocky funny response which is basically what I think you’re doing.
whatsthisgarg 5y ago
and for /u/freshoutofgravitas also
I have had the great pleasure of actually being able to do this more than once:
She says: Tell me you love me.
I say: You love me.
Jampak_5000 5y ago
This is cocky funny, I like it.
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ghosts_of_me 5y ago
Then say whoops i missed and spit it into her mouth
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novalentineforyou 5y ago
Please learn to write better.
gerfen008 5y ago
And human better. These guys are fucking idiots.
And lonely.