True love is not reciprocal.

Hey Man! This post is Gold, and just what I needed after getting out of a hellish relationship 3 months ago. Do you have any further reading that you recommend?

There’s two sides to the game. Red pill or blue pill. Just be aware of which frame you’re operating in.

I've been thinking about this a lot...but in the opposite direction...

I'm a recovering Beta that has been married for 20 years.....I've had to learn one thing the very hard way from this forum and that is that you can never listed to what women say...you can only rely on what they do....

If that is the case.....and it is......Once a woman stops fucking you, she stops loving you....period.

So while men can only express their love by improving their SMV....Women can only express their love by physically loving their man.

This is a good post. I think the biggest problem for most guys getting into the LTR game is going to understand that the way you love her, she fundamentally doesn't understand what you are doing for her. OP describes improving yourself which is 100% accurate, but your girl won't see it like that, it's a long-term strategy.

Gotta fight the urge to go billy-beta when she is asking all those "do you love me and only me" type questions, especially when she is on her period. As TRP states, women love a mystery, so let that hamster work for you instead of against you.

This is absolutely a post I needed right now - it focuses on a side of inter-sexual dynamics that is rarely covered by TRP posts. I used to be a very beta BP person and for my Disney love was nearly the objective of my life (guess what that led to). Understanding how to hold yourself when in any kind of lengthier relationship with a woman is really important cause there are a lot of guys who are RP that, for whatever reason, don't want to endlessly spin plates and live the bachelor life. That said, LTR really seems like a difficult shit and there's not too much TRP coverage on that.

my girl wants to hear it all the time... like when we hang up: "ok bye... i love you."

i NEVER reply in kind and rarely tell her that i love her. instead, i tell her that when those emotions arise, i will be verbal about them... and ONLY at that time so you know it's genuine.

that's simply my truth and my way of being. i believe in being authentic.

she replied, "but what if i just need to hear it?" to which i replied, "then, you are asking for performative emotions; i am not an actor."

Expressing your love for a woman by raising your SMV = spot on man.

1) Rollo said: Men do, women talk.

2) It reminds me about an old social contract: if a man wants to go from good to great, then he must have a reason greater than himself to fight for. Often enough, that reason will be important people in your life. At the surface, it might look contradicting to the first principle of TRP: “Make yourself your own mental point of origin.” But it is not, in my opinion, it complements to the old social contract. Throughout the course of history, men build and invent stuffs to make his life, the life of people around him better. This plus with the white-knight impulse built in us and the fact that human is a sociable animal makes sense that men can fight stronger and better when he has a greater reason than himself. Now where it could go wrong is that reason is centred around a particular girl (ONE-itis) rather than a collective of important people to the man. That where the core principle of TRP “make yourself your own mental point of origin” comes in nicely.

Great insight. To be a high value man and finding the time in all your world crusading glory to still give her attention is the love she wants.

Re: Criticism 1. According to JBP, men are motivated by images of beautiful women. I embrace that about myself and don't see any harm in being motivated, so long as I am being rational about how much I am entering another person's frame or sacrificing for them.

In b4 anti-JBP shit... I get it.

Great post, I remember saving your response from the askTRP question because it's a different take on LTR.

Secondly, after completely degrading her sexually, again she will naturally come to you in a childlike manner, at which point saying the magic words I think would be OK.

I remember there was an old post by a user named ultimatecad or ultimatechad, that he only says the 3 magic words during sex with his wife. That was his way to train her to fuck for comfort, which seemed to have worked for him.

As for improving your SMV to increase the gap, I don't believe it's beta as long as you understand that you're also happy to see yourself improve. I love hitting the gym, bang out that last rep to see my lifts go up, as well as put on more mass. Does that make me beta if my LTR inadvertently finds my SMV goes up? I don't believe so because I'm going to the gym for myself.

am i the only one who use the magic words sarcasticaly, when she was bullshitting I just say "yeah yeah i love you too"

"indulging in love" is actually placing emotional dependence on another person. It is a fundamental unwillingness to bear the weight of your own traumatic experience and integrate them mentally, emotionally and physically.

If you ever feel like you just wanna curl into a ball and latch on to anyone, it is because you are suffering internally. The only reason you're suffering is because you cannot connect to the stillness in your body. You can't do this because your unconscious mind is rousing you to ensure whatever trauma that occurred, doesn't occur again.

So, clear out your trauma. Meditate, breathe, listen to the nagging inside you. Let it claw its way to the surface and foster it's release by not holding anything back. Scream, puke, cry, choke, flail, punch, kick, drool. Do whatever the fuck you need to do to lift the weight of the trauma.

Afterwards you will be able to enjoy the moment to a greater degree. You will be able to be happy with the silence and stillness of the present moment. Show me a man who is alpha, independent, resilient, tough, compassionate, enduring, strong and even ruthless when he has to be and you will show me a man who has stricken himself to his core, emotionally. He has released and integrated all of his traumatic experience, rendering himself no longer burdened by it and able to understand it on and in every level of his being.

So, when you say "indulge in love" what you mean is relying on external, sources to sooth you from your own torment. You're right, don't do that. That is weakness, that is dishonesty, that is cowardice.

Do the emotional work so that you can look at all others, especially women, who have endured much suffering, with compassion. You can do this because you have treated yourself with the ultimate compassion - you've given yourself the space to heal and become whole.

The compassionate man is he who is truly content with silence and stillness and doesn't want to leave it because he knows nothing is as good as the feeling of his own being, without distraction. This is the pinnacle of alpha. This is the source of all frame. This is your own manifestation of your truest self. This is the starting point all the other things you want in your life, including women will flow in abundance as a result of this.

As long as you understand that an LTR is still just a turn (albeit more of a season's pass as opposed to a wrist stamp), maintain outcome independence and keep her hamster's cardio on point you'll be fine. You're obviously a seasoned redpiller and know what you're doing.

You can love bomb the shit out of woman especially ltrs. Expressions of love work the same way as attention. You reward them with it when they are being good and you take it away when they are not. 2/3s rule make them earn it rinse repeat.

Yesterday I binged on youtube videos about van camper/minihome conversions. A minority were single folks travelling on their own. The majority were younger couples who’d already done the year of backpacking together and were now married. The delight such couples find in one another is palpable, none are obese or unhealthy, they look ALIVE. Granted, they’re producing these videos for youtube hits, but they’re absolutely frank about the downsides of van living, being in that close proximity, how they find places to shit and piss, questions about feminine hygiene, etc.

Some things I noticed: the man does the vast majority of the building and maintenance. In the case a woman is traveling alone, she had fathers and uncles help her build it, if she didn’t pay to have it done. Women do most of the cooking and having a larger, more efficient kitchen is more important to them than to the men.

Even after a year or more of living so close together, let alone the time they’ve been together before then, these couples remain incredibly demonstrative, touchy, giggly.

Maybe it has something to do with actually forming a team and succeeding together. Or maybe they’re all fake. But damn, they’re so fit and happy

What takes real grit and determination would be to take your own SMV to the next level. Whilst hers is very likely to be stagnant or slowly declining - the difference you make in yours should result in furthering her - dating / marrying up - which is a woman's true imperative: to cling to the branch highest in her reach!

Best paragraph of the entire thread. Love it.

My opinion is that, as always, not the words, but context matter. Saying i love u can be goot or bad, depending on why you are saying it.

From reading op's post, i got a feeling he is overthinking the whole thing. What about this, what about that, why such and not alfa? Am i beta for tginking this or that?

Chill out man.

I always go trough that cycle: end an LTR - > start spinning plates for couple of months -> LTR comes up(not with a former plate,they dont get promoted) -> end LTR - > start spinning plates...

I never understood why LTR would be a no-no. Just show abundance mentality from the start and let the girl know she can be replaced at any time. Keep doing your thing and let her just enjoy the ride. If it doesnt work out who the fuck cares,you got other options.
Im currently in an LTR and still focus on myself. Spinning plates takes too much time and energy from me. Keeping up an LTR on my rules is optimal. I get my food prepared,house clean,bills split,as much fucking as I want and still got time for myself. I like this girl and enjoy her company for now. Im aware it might end anytime and I couldnt care less. I dont treat her bad tho. Her girlfriends alyways whine about they bfs when they compare them to me.

My only problem with LTR is that I have to fuck one girl(or cheat on her).

Thought-provoking. TRP has a poor rep but there is a lot of good thinking and communicating going on here, often around topics that men are reluctant to engage with in depth with each other in real life.

I think your point about Disney love being a male self indulgence is bang on the money. I can see RP love expressed moreso in your ability to be the sun at the centre of her universe; its workings unknowable to her, a constant presence that she wants for and worships. And the key as we know is to be this because it befits you as a man, not to please her. The sun doesn't burn for any one individual, it just burns.

Up vote for confirmed kills

Yeah man, solid post and solid analysis. I think you've got it right. Improving your SMV is always the best course of action when in doubt. It just makes sense, and it just works.

Getting those huge muscles and dressing very well gets you laid, period.

Fear is the root emotion of love, and of hate. Love and hate are essentially the same emotion; fear. You fear losing her, so you "love" her. You fear that guy will beat your ass, so you "hate" him.

Truly indifference is the only emotion that doesn't work in your favour. If she is indifferent about you, then she has more power, and can walk away easier.

But if shes always saying how much she loves you, you have more power, and she needs you to survive. True dependance. Note that you don't have to return the "i love you" for her to keep loving you.

Don't say those words. Express it in action. If you really loved her, aka feared losing her, you'd be improving your SMV so she never lets go of you.

Nice read. You seem like an intelligent and respectful fellow. I can agree with your responses to the criticism.

I believe you are on the right track and have steered me a bit more to where I want to go mindset-wise. Thanks.

Have a nice day

EDIT: typo

It's easier when you become more expressive of other positive emotions at the same time.. You feel secure enough to say "It's a really beautiful day out here" and other things that may seem feminine.. It just shows you have a passion for life. "I love this song" "I love my friends" Food is delicious, not just okay, not "fine".. That movie was fucking amazing.. It's like adding spice to your speech. A guy who talks with passion will not be vulnerable by saying "I love you" to anyone. It's part of being aware of yourself and living life to the fullest. And the guy who loves multiple parts of life has real abundance, the girl cannot break him and will not try.

Good post.

In regard to to critcism 1, I'll admit that's the first thing that jumped into my mind. I think the entire question rests on a false premise. The correct premise is this:

Fuck anyone who tries to make you justify improving yourself.

Men aren't judged on the justification or purpose for their mission.
Men are judged on fucking results. Your quest to maximize you value as a man is nothing you ever have to justify to anyone, for any reason. It's literally no one's business but yours.

Whoever taught people that "unicorn" women were robotic in their responses was misleading, in my opinion. Speaking from the perspective of a woman who has tended to be popular with males (and not a slut), in my present relationship, when my bf first told me he loved me, although I appreciated it immensely, I didn't say it back right then. We stayed in the moment of his loving expression in gratitude. Some days after that, I told him I love him and he didn't reply with words, only gratitude in his eyes and embrace. We have continued in this manner when expressing our feelings towards each other, taking care to not reply with a "me too" or any variant thereof. We have found that it is not necessary and I believe that seeking replies gives power to the ego.

We never discussed this revelation between us, only both inherently realized it, which to me reflects the maturing of our innate human wisdom in this partnership. I wasn't sure that love could be real between two people in a sexual relationship--I assumed it was all a sexual power struggle. And now I think that we are capable of moving beyond this; when both halves of a relationship are working to better themselves (as you suggest you want to do to increase your SMV), with daily training of the mind, body and spirit, then words are only reflections of what both halves already experience in their union: pride in partnership.

You said women will let you do more degrading things sexually when they start to love you......maybe.... but if I had to get my next paycheck I would say girls always wanted that kinky shit from the beginning. They just don't wanna come off in the first month looking like a slut....which they are! They are all hoes

Just be the shit and do dope shit with your life.

As long as she understands that you come first and you love and respect yourself more than anyone, she just feels an inclination to do the same.

Just be a great version of yourself and you will have a role model/dad vibe in her eyes. Unless she completely has a fucked relationship with her dad.

She could only ever “love” you as much as you love yourself.

You just helped me find answers to what I've been struggling with for some time now, having the same questions.

I've been doing what you say is right all this time, but my mind kept raising these questions and I wasn't sure if I was on the right track. Thanks.

When my plates that want to be my LTR say "i luvz you"
I reply with "yeah... I love me too"

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