A lot of AskTRP threads ask stuff like "how can I find the motivation to X," "how can I get in state" or, ironically "how can I get out of my own head," instead of tangible external questions, such as "how can I do X." If you're asking the former you just want to feel like you're improving yourself rather than actually taking steps to do it.
So when I'm on ask TRP I'm always looking for the guys who want tangible information. You know they're actually going to take someone's advice. "What program should I be doing?" versus "why do women like muscles?" The second guy is just looking for an excuse to not lift. "If I work on my game I won't need a good appearance." Bullshit.
How often do you hear a man irl talk about his feelings? That's because it's feminine behavior. Men play poker together, women go to tea parties. If you start thinking about your feelings all the time you start to see patterns. Now instead of being in the moment you're thinking about how to get into the moment. Positive feedback loops suck.
The entrepreneurs subreddit is always about methods to motivate yourself. You know these guys aren't making as much money as the autist who only thinks about his business. For him motivation doesn't exist. It's just business business business.
Fuck your feelings. They don't change the outside world in any way.
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Shanguerrilla 5y ago
Thanks for your perspective. I actually agree, I spent at least a decade with 'bound' feelings.. not in touch at all with 'how' I felt and seemingly 'not allowing' or accepting or letting myself feel,'break' (by losing control of my emotions: crying, angry, etc..) or even USE my emotions as the empowerment / guiding force they can now be.
I forget his phrase, but the book that helped me tremendously to get more in touch with myself, stronger, more whole and 'easier' to prioritize myself and my future and able to be more present was called "Healing the Shame That Binds," it seems silly to mention a book like that here, but it was incredibly helpful to my first survival and later thriving, being able to be more present in any present, and be more 'the man' I want/decide in EXACTLY the way you champion:
And nothing has helped my life, my son's, or even my relationships (or mindset and opportunities) with women--- NOTHING has remotely helped me as much as really getting myself balanced and MORE in touch with my emotions- as that let me NOT be as controlled by my feelings and be more mindful and present. The biggest benefit was not just that my subconscious wasn't hidden or driving me- but women, kids, bosses, family, strangers, catastrophes, surgeries, flat tires, car accidents, acts of God... whatever the fuck happens externally doesn't get to direct my feelings. I can't control all the uncontrollable in the world and future, I can't fix crazy women or save anyone from themselves.. Best I can do for myself or anyone is lead by example of how to save myself. So I do, but shit it was nice to not let people or situations manipulate and 'make us' feel or act.
I used to on some level behave like I was 'god'. Like I controlled and was responsible for people and things I don't. I NEVER again feel any tug to 'caretake' anyone's feelings. I think due to my ex I get klaxons for even the 'regular' guilt tripping normal people do. But the irony is women and children believe that things and people affect their emotions and their emotions are uncontrollable, in reality EVERYTHING women and children (and I used to) try to control- I had ZERO- and the ONE thing I control is myself (including my feelings).
Between that book, a couple years of therapy with a great therapist. I had to kind of go on a journey of my own path and distance to get from the 'numb' reacting younger man- unaware of his emotions- to really learning and directing who I am, awareness and processing (rather than being controlled by my emotions), and like a lightswitch 'manipulative' people or the external things we can't control in the world haven't been able to "make me feel" or "make me do" ANYTHING since 2015. I think we all need our own journey, I likened this as part of my 'right of manhood' even if I was in my 20's by the time it took root. For myself I needed to read that book, have that fucked relationship with a true blue Cluster B.. and luckily that therapist became really a mentor to me. Guy was a retired Navy Seal / then therapist until he passed unexpectedly right around my 8th year previously with my ex, Satan.
I really did learn how "emotions" are EXTREMELY necessary to get us in "motion" to fill our needs and be the men we are / want to be. I knew how easy it was to 'not react' or 'to react' (I was brilliant at either when I was more fucked up and more clueless toward my subconscious, motivations, or feelings). The hard part for me was to get through my own denial, face my insecurities and fears. Then I finally learned you don't have to 'face your demons' and to walk away.
It's weird that facing my insecurities and getting more in touch with my emotions- 'accepting' myself (as I am 'right now) made me stronger, more confident, and MORE able to actually act and improve myself. "Accepting myself" seems like stupid shit to talk about on TRP, but I've always had my best success and am personally my strongest when doing something out of priority and compassion. Doing something because I accept or love myself- faults and all- for me has always outperformed and been more pleasant than doing things "because I HATE, don't accept, don't value, or am disgusted by myself or something."
Going through hell and facing my shortcomings was NECESSARY (for me) to use to become stronger with each obstacle and setback. I've been certain I can always trust myself (now and in the future) which makes me able to be mindful and more in the present while preparing for any future I know I have ME to rely on and trust there/then too. So I worry less about things I can't control in the future, and similarly I trust what I do in the present to be the best I can with what I know and have available. (That's the mantra of what I do so I can trust myself). As a result though, that 'accepting myself' allowed me to not dwell in the past- I can't touch or interact with it! Maybe it stems from just accepting today, myself, the things I can't control, but I stopped having depression, regret, useless or unneeded guilt or shame... Every day of my past- as hellish the moment or memory- THE ONLY thing the past give me is assets and resources. Even the 'negative' is positive, because I accept myself today. Prioritizing myself and and being 'selfish' in healthy ways ironically also lets us be more able to not just be whole or myself, but is necessary for us to ever have healthy attachment and realer compassion for ourselves AND others- though 'others' wasn't my goal.
Apologies this is written so rambling and for the jumping around. I just wanted to say I completely agree with you, it's an odd topic to discuss here AND I was more fucked up with my emotions (and hopefully still am) more than 'most' men. As exaggerated or extreme my "men don't feel" and concentrated the experience of marriage and divorce to a woman with a Cluster B personality... It was clear I was both powerless and without a rudder when I 'bound' my emotions and tried to never react (insomuch "not reacting" was my unhealthy WAY OF REACTING!), and it was explicitly the emotions aspects in your post that took me from where I was to here, specifically learning to recognize and ANALYZE [and hidden in there is also "Accept"] our feelings.
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Shanguerrilla 5y ago
God, man- you are on point for guys on the path or track I was!
Yea, I really relate and understand every word of that, not because I know everything, but I walked (and am walking) that out.
The issue for guys like me... I am a bit of an introvert, but that's a pointless indicator once adults ('any' social stuff NOT small, one-on-one, or one woman, or my son-- drains me..), but as a busy man I've only got a few nights a week that others' can work to fit (and I'm not against compromise- but it's hard to be extremely social sometimes with our careers, being a single dad [even 50/50], and the regular stuff for our own physical, personal, financial improvement's we prioritize take time. It's still ALL overcomable, those aren't excuses, just the 'time/energy budget' I like.
That said, even an introvert like me can be 'the life of the party' (in fact, I love that shit, just in moderation... If I was in big social things 3 - 7 nights a week I'd never really 'be' that or enjoy it..
So it isn't the introvert aspect of me, but fucking hell your last line is REALLY valuable to people who need it (and unfortunately when I 'needed' it I may not have noticed it so strongly):
So I actually do have the tools, but only NOW- after fatherhood, going through hell to find the man I am and what parts can't be broke or burnt off, and I needed to read books, self-assess, be more mindful, work on anxiety and depression once I 'unlocked' my emotions, etc..... But now- I'm there and I've always flirted with it. The issue is that even though I 'feel' there is no chance of becoming dependent or reliant- I am smart enough to know how dumb I am. But that is a great quote to sum up and be discretionary; on all the rest of the comment I also completely agree.
I had to fail at that again and again and keep getting up before that 'lesson' really was how I live, but honestly, I very much trust and 'know' myself. Part of that is to realize that I CAN do this AND DO have the:
"tools and demonstrate that you can control your emotions, talking about your emotions with women can only build attraction. But if there's even a chance of being dependent or reliant, it's not worth the risk."
But I think what was most important was keeping the 'spectrum' over 'black and white' thinking- you are prescient there, I just recognize in myself the chances or risks of becoming dependent or reliant ahead of time (after PLENTY of failures, and likely some more). I have gotten better about doing 'both', more able to share or to not share, and to judge when or when not to. What was nicest though was the 'completeness' in that, it is so fucking relieving to live this way, we can have both once we have the tools. It's NECESSARY to have them, they vary person to person in use and usefulness- but we all need our own toolbelt. I really think that once you are competent with your growing toolbelt though, we can have both. Control and talk about what (emotions) we need to AND I HAVE seen it build attractions... but I'm mid-30's, got most my things under control or figured out or in progress and the light.. It was NOT that way before I had the toolbelt, I'm not a 'natural' like some likely are about that stuff. With that tool belt and ROUTINE practice using it and perfecting it- we really can learn to anticipate or cut anchor based on that chance of growing unhealthy attachment-- because THAT IS NOT WORTH THE RISK!!!! God, I wish I could save my son and godsons or any men from my mistakes, the problem is I was a very obstinate man even as a boy, and I had to purchase and earn my lessons with repeated failure. Hoping to save my boy from that!
Really great posts /u/feoen! Great content man, I really hope some younger guys benefit from it, but really nice regardless to find someone else with my opinion on this stuff (mine isn't academic, but anyone can notice a pattern after enough decades!)
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Shanguerrilla 5y ago
Jesus dude! You really are a great therapist, especially on this stuff!
You're 100% correct! I wish I could have learned it from an article and not from being "zeroed out" (AT LEAST 2 TIMES, arguably 3... but 18 year old me didn't have as much to lose when losing everything and my freedom then fighting back up.. so not quite 3). The one at 22-27 (was a hard climb) then again at ~32-33 were fucking killer..
Goddamn those are the times man. I expect that's why this last experience was as profound and life-changing... as the second or third time- and with all the new self-awareness and experiences of time and fatherhood and fucked and getting up.. That 'zeroing' out was the hardest of any, not at all for losing my ex, I left her.. but it was hard to have 12 years of accumulation / life / and then a son as one of my largest priorities throughout... Was a slow escalation that I could have (and should have) avoided, but I did the wrong thing for the right reason instead and thought I was hanging on as long as I could 'for my son'. I stood and took it without even stopping her since she held my son and I was certain her trying to hurt me as much as she can would be increased (and more importantly increase the CRAZY for my son) IF I tried to take him, since she was already in a psychotic state that night. Shit was scary, it's weird I didn't feel that, everything was math and reason, so I walked off and locked the door- deciding he's safer with CRAZY than me escalating it. She tried a couple times after he was asleep, then she called and lied to the cops and I was arrested and drug through the mud.
That whole marriage was a travesty of my own choosing and making. Sucked to literally and legally lose every possession to a woman that was for almost a decade nothing more than my dependent that never worked. Sucked that the police cared less about her getting into hit and runs WITH my then just barely 2 year old son, running.. driving no license.. (since she wasn't even arrested... and they left my son with her.. whereas her 'words' were enough even as an illegal to have me arrested and barred from my home and son..)
That zeroing out was the most fucking difficult since I had to "do the greater good" (thinking 'years' or 'lifetime') and leave my son with a monster I clearly couldn't or wouldn't 'handle' coexisting with as a BIG strong man. Losing all my money and possessions AND access to my home that I work a good career.. that was nothing next to the priorities of my life and my son's... and he was with 'satan' and outside my reach until I was acquitted a month later (then still until court settles or goes to trial a year+ out)... Until I was finally able to leverage her hit-and-run (not arrested, but she got a traffic summons) court coming up, and gathered my finances enough to scare / lure her to settle and give me 'enough' custody and 50/50 control that I can protect my son (her only alternative was I would stop paying her bills or giving her support, if she can't care for my son I'd call CPS, and I would continue toward that court date a year out and NOT stop until I had 100% custody). So she settled, fucking finally, that was my hardest zeroing out- unfortunately they have been logarithmic to an extent. We know how to 'lose everything' and build it back up from a pile of our losses- but the longer between the zeroing out- the more we have to lose.. Shit honestly gets harder and harder the more times we fall for the same shit- here's to hoping I'm taking notes and making the right changes.
So I've been zeroed 2-3 times, but that was the hardest. To go from having everything for a decade, home, multiple cars, bikes, dogs, the picket fence and awesome son-- to losing your freedom, name in the mud, (two years later, this Ex-cluster B is STILL obsessed with me and 'ruining my life' 'to get what's coming me' and that's fine, she's done her best to for years and years)...
I've always used or thought of Sisyphus related to the times I stayed, holding a line I didn't NEED to hold for women in my life. It's strange I've never felt that way the times I dug my way out of the HUGE holes I dug myself... times I felt I was (and in reality WAS) coming back from LESS than zero.
I'm not the regular overtly alpha-Chad obviously, but I've gone through shit- like everyone has. I feel blessed to have though, my past is my greatest asset today while all its debts I've already paid. I learned a shit ton about myself through every failure and knockdown.. by getting up and moving forward. Most of all I learned how to really "never give up." And that sometimes "never giving up" means to cut anchor and sail the fuck off from the shore and people or life you were- because the thing I can "never give up" is myself and my integrity. It's crucial to me, and for my son. "Not giving up" means to give up on the things NOT our priority (like Sisyphus's BIG ASS ROCK!).
The world can be on fire around me, but at the end of the day 'who' I am (that is growing/evolving/progressing) and my integrity (that has been constant and I'm proud of that) are the only two things I will/can never compromise. To me, my integrity and priorities are personal and for me- but damn near the top of mine just below me is my son; he's my hero or strength and teacher at least as much as I have (and do a decent job of) providing him. If the world's on fire, no matter what happens my life took me to a place of peace or acceptance with 'reality now'... If the world is going to burn down and it's out of my control, I won't be anyone but consistently me and I'm damn sure ESPECIALLY NOT THEN going to sacrifice my chosen integrities. I'm not perfect, but I fucking love myself and appreciate me. Like, the best thing I can do then is my best in that moment, model and live and die as best I can that honors my values and priorities (which strongly now extend to my 4 year old son).
I can't handle subjective shit or too many details. I've always (since ~2015) simplified who I am and my decisions into this: no matter the day, I will be able to look at the man in the mirror feel pride at the end of each day I'm alive-- it's that simple and then I've succeeded. I don't give a shit what people try to paint or judge (especially from past BS like the false DV charges, while I'm readily willing to share to boys/young men my failures and mistakes for guidance).
I've always thought and believed that if you took and locked me into a room with a rattlesnake, some water, and a heat source for long enough, you'll find me skinny, immune to rattlesnake venom, and some snake bones. Nothing can keep us down, nothing can win if we just keep getting up.
I used to feel like Sisyphus, always choosing Sisyphean tasks and staying WAY longer than I should. I agree that positive masculinity or 'maleness' (or the idea) that "I'm good" "I've mastered this!" is beyond ignorant- it's counterproductive. I didn't mean to portray that. I'm 'prepared' only by knowing how unprepared I am, by knowing to collect resources along the way, lighten my load where I should, and no matter what just keep progressing and moving forward on the path I choose until the end.
What's odd though, is you ARE right that I'm not ready for my father to die. I love my mom and she's alive and awesome, but of all this last post, the father thing is a good reminder to your point. WE NEVER are done learning or growing and building the men we are. We always need to progress, learn how to better use the tools we have, add tools, and sometimes (often) even lighten the load and get rid of the tools we use to misuse and have uselessly been carrying around since we used the correct ones... but always changing- that IS life, always healing and growing (and growing stronger)- that IS 'being a man' to me.
The 'argument' that you and I see, is that 'when you can'... sensitivity or mindfulness and awareness and even (selective) sharing of our emotions isn't just useful in the right way in relationships with women... It's fucking nice to be whole, feel whole, it's useful too in our relationship with ourselves, our children, family, friends, etc..
Great great posts man. I can't even comment on this part- I fucking just really loved this part and am still digesting it (that and the father part hit "even me" through my arrogance really hard!):
Damn man, really great talking to you. I'm fucking happy that somewhere out there YOU are a therapist a guy is going to go to for help. I have another really great old fashioned '50's' type guy that I still go see. Therapy is one of many tools we need to sometimes appreciate and apply (that Navy SEAL fucking saved my and my son's future- he was ONE HELL of a stick and stone to help me hold that rock up.. Until he mentored me into realizing I wasn't Sisyphus).
Edit- I've ALWAYS and STILL am REALLY BAD at "recognizing that we are getting tired and looking for resources to hold it temporarily" or lighten the load.. I'm good at not expecting or looking for others to help, but I'm shit at always keeping on top of that "I'm tired" gauge. We can't hang on until we 'can't' or we'll be unable to grab anything on the way down to save ourselves (or my son). Great reminder... I got through some things by focusing on "NEVER" giving up, brainwashing myself to an extent- there are still times I definitely need to remember that part. Great points!
daymi 5y ago
Man, you've been through hell. Glad to see that you are handling it as you are.
It's good that you understand that you don't have to do everything yourself. It took me ages to find people I could trust (within reason) - but I have them now. The load on me is now so much lighter. And all I had to do was talk. They were already in my life and were already prepping me up and supporting me like stagehands, I just kept them in the dark. Woe was me. Seriously... shakes head
What's more, wow, many things my male peers have to endure just like me. Talking with them helps, too. So many common things - and the events, they repeat over and over again, just with different names and dates. I should have been talking to them much earlier.
What I'm getting at: often there's a false dichotomy, "talk to oneitis or nobody". Horseshit! Talk to everyone.
Just a heads-up, your post is probably enough to find you (lots of blue pill at hospitals, courts and police). I suggest you to edit or delete it if that's a concern.
Shanguerrilla 5y ago
You are so damn right!
I definitely 'get' that way we look back and see the things we never could until after 'finding the solution' (it seems SO OBVIOUS after). "Woe is me" never helped at all, one-itis, or talking to (negotiating) or getting into 'emotional reasoning' with am SO or woman (or even 'man') never has been productive- yet was what I tried for years in my ignorance. It seemed so clear to me! LMFAO.
It wasn't until that one man I say became a mentor (I think he would too, I just feel like I'm 'cheating' to call him that when he was a professional I saw... but after a year+, if good, it kind of starts to go both ways- he did invest and mean a lot to me). Aftat that, fuck- no, DURING that first year with him... he wasn't on "TRP" but he fucking embodied everything we champion- that fucker was a God-damned natural and one hell of an awesome man... he really WAS the one who helped me 'shake my head' at the 'woe is me'. He would have slapped that the fuck out of me if he wasn't always so damn good at seeing through and speaking to, and helping me help myself. I swear to god, I don't get emotional at a lot, I don't even ever mention this guy a lot or except where guys might understand-- but whenever I do, holy fuck.. he meant and means a lot to me, he helped me open my eyes, see myself, and be the man I am--- Even the most 'blue-pill' that my thinking could have EVER become, would and did--- THAT is enough to 'snap me out of it' because he wasn't just offering my blue-pill ass salvation, he was giving me the tools, perspective, and ability to take care myself, be a man, and be the father I am to my son. It's like that simple idea that a man IS what he chooses to BE. I am forever grateful to him- I really wanted to say his name, but while I'm not 'worried' about being Dox'ed- I DO appreciate you warning. I took a little bit of the things most 'clarifying' out, not worried for the rest. Honestly, fuck it though- so I got out what I (wasn't worried about, but.... I do deal with crazy, and you're right TRP is targeted)-- I will never, ever be ashamed or afraid to say though- that you're right. The men are already there. Talk to everyone that you want to (except your one-itis if the case / need be). We filter what we say / share, but it is so important to and to find the few people that we can trust (within boundaries- boundaries are important here and everywhere).
But holy shit you're right. When I started talking to more men and more friends- MANY 'sane' women did crazier shit than my legit "Gone Girl" ex. Even some of the women I've been with since, they have seemingly 'sane' men ex's, that did or do as much or crazier shit than a legit psycho.. From the men around me, each time I do find that trust and share how I decide to, from my experience I've found INCREDIBLY relatable stories. The names, places, and times change- but honestly..... it's "scary" how similar many of our fellow brothers' stories- whether they are with "crazy" or not... We all have that capacity (and sadly most women don't seem to [statistically] find themselves 'forced' to cope with it to fit into a society or be imprisoned and ruined for it like men----- so even 'sane' women get away with acting crazy. What surprises me is how much 'normal' people men or women do "CRAZY" shit.. I'm still sorting that one out actually, I'm sick enough in my own ways where I can 'get' with women, yet seem to have a pattern of 'choosing' the demons from my past to bring home).
Anyway, I really related and appreciated your comment. I wasn't worried about personal info- I've said most this elsewhere over the years- BUT appreciated- TRP is targeted, you're right. Even if I 'don't care' now, I still prefer to avoid rather than feed drama- so on your advice (and after seeing the Illimitable Man's new post) I took out some of the specifici info. Thank you for reading, for relating (and I damn sure can to you), and your advice and comment!
sh0t 5y ago
Most of your problems stem from not being good-looking enough
dulkemaru51 5y ago
I don't know about thinking about your feelings about taking on a specific task but, I personally, take action far more effectively if I understand the nuts and bolts of the system I'm operating in/with. Understanding first principles allows for creativity much faster than learning as you go.
Apart from that, understanding something is, to me, fun as hell.
GodOfDinosaurs 5y ago
Moderating your emotions is one thing; outright trying to shut them down is a bit foolish. There's more to life than being a productive robot on autopilot. Don't lose what makes life worth living in your quest for self-improvement.
Vox-Triarii 5y ago
It would be better phrased as acknowledge and master your emotions rather than simply not have them. I have plenty of emotion, but I've always sought to cultivate discipline and self awareness in all things. That's the path to success, no man is emotionless, but every man can become captains of their own soul.
PM_ME_UR_1ITIS_SNAP 5y ago
Absolutely. It's rhetoric. It's not literally don't feel.
I can't qualify every statement I make thought. That's weak writing.
arsenal99 5y ago
A couple of good books for this - the inside out revolution and Clarity
Vox-Triarii 5y ago
My father always told me that an ounce of discipline is worth a pound of motivation and a kilo of inspiration. I've found this to be true throughout my life. When we think about things, even just talk about things instead of actually doing them it's harmful. By focusing too much on loftier goals, you're just using up energy that you actually need to make it a reality.
When we talk too much about an action before we have launched into it, we're letting all the good air out. We lose explosive force, like a motor with a crack in the cylinder, there is no compression because we have let it out too early. Knowing when to keep things to yourself to generate more force and fire, and when to crack it open and unleash it is key to getting things done, having tangible results in our grasp.
chrisname 5y ago
If you're obsessed with something you don't need discipline. I taught myself C++ when I was 14. I didn't need discipline because it was the first thing I thought about when I woke up, and the last thing before I went to sleep. I would sneak onto the family computer at 3am to program. I did it instead of homework and let myself nearly fail classes because of it. If I'd been disciplined I wouldn't have done that.
Point is, if you can find that level of passion for something you don't need discipline. You will be successful in it if you keep it going. Discipline is how you do things you aren't really interested in. If you can find a way to be obsessed instead, then you won't need it.
Denver_Luv4 5y ago
I think about the feelings I have to go deadlift. Those are good feelings.
conflagratorX 5y ago
Some level of discipline is required but also try to have fun while doing things. E.g. you are bored with 3 standard Power Lifts? Try some Olympic Lifts. You are bored with repetitive job? Try to automate it.
Imabout2be30 5y ago
That is an amazing anology, actually both those analogies, what your Pops said and the engine with a crack...Golden
PM_ME_UR_1ITIS_SNAP 5y ago
Good analogy. Everybody's always observing themselves now. Nothing's natural.
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PM_ME_UR_1ITIS_SNAP 5y ago
Ok. Some of us are more sensitive than others and their emotions are a big deal. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
I'm just instructing others to not think about themselves too much in the meta. It leads to status anxiety.
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Kurush559 5y ago
I'm going to present a slightly different interpretation of what you're saying (which I agree with).
The problem isn't men thinking about their feelings. It's that they DON'T think about their feelings.
Billy beta gets shit tested by Stacy. He suddenly feels offended, hurt, and disrespected. So he reacts in a sad voice, telling her how she's wrong and he feels hurt. He didn't actually think about his feelings though, did he? He reacted without any thought at all.
Chad gets shit tested by Stacy. He suddenly feels offended, hurt, and disrespected. So he reacts in an angry voice, telling her to never talk to him like that again, or he walks. He didn't listen to his feelings either.
I get home, change into my gym clothes, then see the ice cream in my fridge, and fantasise about how much nicer it would be to lie in bed, watch a film and eat the ice cream. So I hop into bed, and 5 hours later here I am typing a response. I didn't think about my feelings, I just reacted.
If Billy Beta had thought, he would've ignored the comment. If Chad had thought, he would've agreed and amplified. If I had thought, I would have realised that my emotions weren't REAL and I would've been productive in the gym.
The problem isn't thinking about feelings, it's following them without any thought. By analysing our feelings and deliberating between beneficial and harmful action, we succeed.
dulkemaru51 5y ago
Being aware of the origin and meaning of your feelings and thoughts is like a super power, I agree. I don't know if OP disagrees with that, but what I think he's saying, is that having routines/discipline can make up for momentary feelings instead of, or on top of being aware of what's going on in your consciousness.
Awareness of your feelings that leads to building discipline is a double win, I guess.
Observing your feelings about the thought of having ice cream instead of going to the gym takes the magic away from them in a logical sense, but it'd still be damn nice to have that ice cream... so discipline is certainly a good thing to have in your arsenal, IMO.
Vox-Triarii 5y ago
This is a very good take, the key is that you have to get into the habit of doing this everytime you feel something. Recognizing when and what you feel in the moment is important. If you do it enough it'll be what you usually do when you start to feel something. Instead of reacting you will be acting.
throwaway92009 5y ago
On that note - great advice here https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/7-ways-to-increase-your-emotional-intelligence-starting-right-now.html?cid=hmsub3&utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=linkedin&utm_medium=Nancy%20Duarte
[deleted] 5y ago
Meditation helps a lot with this.
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it_takes_the_redpill 5y ago
Scrolled down to make sure someone had mentioned this perspective. Then I had to make sure someone mentioned meditation as an option.
How powerful it can be to become so aware of your feelings to the point where the moment something changes, you can analyse where that feeling came from and rationally decide how to act. Same with thoughts. You can actively steer them away from negative patterns.
Krelious 5y ago
I think you're wrong because essentially you're saying live life by your impulses and dont give a fuck. It also asks your self to be extremely selfish and inconsiderate. You're essentially saying act like a psychopath. See how far in life you get like that. I see your point but there are limitations to that method. Life is about finding balance not going balls deep into one idealogy or one thing otherwise you will find yourself in situations where your methods and skills are woefully unprepared to deal with the scenarios you face and then you will be sorry.
TheEnglishman28 5y ago
Every journey begins with the first step.
Parara_papapapaVeis 5y ago
My theory is that, if they liked what they do, they wouldn't need motivations methods to do it.
DayGameChirality 5y ago
Blah blah blah, I dislike this type of black and white thinking. You guys on TRP believe that men are much more rational that women.
Imagine a graph, where Y is number of people, X is rationality to irrationality and there are two bell curves, one representing men and another representing women.
There are two options:
I'll tell you what. Poker's boring. Tea parties are interesting. Talking about your feelings rocks, because you get to know yourself and take another's perspective on yourself. Talking about bussiness all the time is boring as well. I'd rather talk about music and your last funny experience. This kind of black and white thinking of how "men are different, we watch sports and like military" is just fucking silly.
I am biased because most of my male friends are music diggers or other artsy guys. They're at least somewhat emotional, some more, some less. But nowhere near the degree of rationality you people love to describe here as some kind of ideal one should strive for.
sh0t 5y ago
The Bell Curve matters less than the Angles on your Face
lapeparoja 5y ago
You are right, most probably you feel that way because you have low testosterone, way to the left of the bell curve, and if the male-female curves overlap, some women, let's say Jezebel staff, may have more testosterone than you. You are verbose, snarky, and extremely whining so I dont find that difficult to imagine.
DayGameChirality 5y ago
Your claims aren't supported neither by science nor by real life examples.
I've got most of my close friends tested for T because most of them were depressed at some point.
The most emotional of them, a guy who I consider annoying because of his incredible focus on the feelz (I often have to remind him of his irrational mindset), had a T of above 1000ng/dL and a healthy average E2 levels, which is on the high end and a better result than the majority of this sub ever had. Then another friend of mine has similar levels, around 950ng/dL and 22pmol E2 and is a rational guy. Then we have yet another male friend of mine who, during his puberty, most likely had a low T, or at least dysfunctional HPTA axis and all the resulting brain fog from it, and had developed sort of distorted, dysfunctional mindset around the subject of opposite sex in the context of sexual relationships, which has caused him to misunderstand women and have various quirks; he eventually fixed this by dilligently interacting with women and getting a girlfriend. My point is, he has average T right now, and is the most rational and intelligent person I personally know. Has above average sex drive.
Whereas when I was at 245ng/dL T due to a HPTA dysfunction, I had sex drive that was stronger than all the guys I've mentioned above.
I realize it's convenient for the Western mind (and I consider myself one) to explain everything by neurotransmitters and hormones to avoid critical thought - the irony is strong in this one - but it doesn't lead to any rational conclusions. Those conclusions could lead to better judgement and thus actions, and a better life for me, you and everyone around us so it would be irrational to hesitate with critique.
My goal isn't to attack you, but the mindset that's non-conductive to successfully understanding humans.
Cheers
PM_ME_UR_1ITIS_SNAP 5y ago
Ok. You just said you have similar thoughts to a woman. That's fine. This post wasn't for you.
DayGameChirality 5y ago
The problem is that those black and white statements aren't getting questioned. Instead, everyone is going to treat your reply as some kind of insult to me, or ostracism from the group.
Males do a similar degree of irrational shit, just in different settings and have different rationalizations for their shit.
PM_ME_UR_1ITIS_SNAP 5y ago
I think everyone else has enough sense to understand that it's stylistic writing.
It's like you can either say AWALT or AAGRMWALTBNA more commonly referred to as As A General Rule, Most Women Are Like That, But Not All.
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U-94 5y ago
Never lose your cool. You will never get it back.
NormalAndy 5y ago
Success is 1% inspiration & 99% perspiration.
Can confirm not yabbering on about feelings has improved life no end. In fact, learning to keep your mouth shut is an underrated skill.
_NeiLtheReaLDeaL_ 5y ago
I heard that you only become unsatisfied when you begin examine your own satisfaction
[deleted] 5y ago
That’s actually quite profound.
7a7p 5y ago
I fucking needed this today. Thank you.
Imadeathtrap 5y ago
The key to being happy and self aware simultaneuosly is simple:
It is by asking self-directed questions using "what" instead of "why".
The human subconcious is almost never understood by our concious state.
There are many studies showing we get it wrong all the time when we try to guess at our deeper motivations. Even worse we think we are right when we try
E.g: after two hours thinking about why you just got angry at your lady for something stupid "...oh so i hate women due to my obvious oedipus complex"
This constant "why, why, why" is great for science or business but not our brains as it just invents its own reasons. Give it a try;
"Why dont i approach women more?" - because i am afraid of rejection
"Why do i dislike rejection?" - it makes me feel devalued
"Why dont i like being devalued?" - it makes me feel unworthy
"Why is feeling unworthy bad" - it makes me get rejected
And then it just loops known as feedback loop from hell you get upset with being upset, angry about being sad. This is where self awareness takes a shit in your brain and slowly smears the walls.
from there...
Asking "what" breaks this loop and is shown to be the quality of those that actually have self awareness.
Example:
"If i dont like rejection, what can i do about it?"
"What made me get rejected?"
"What emotion did i feel?"
The idea isnt to stop being self aware, it's to stop digging until your nails bleed. To stop using your bucket on the infinite minecraft pool that is your emotions and spilling that shit everywhere.
References:
There is a ted talk on this about self awareness for your reference and mark manson also calls this "turtles all the way down". There are also scientific studies linking self monitoring to depression if done incorrectly.
SteveStJohn 5y ago
That's pretty good.
https://markmanson.net/self\-awareness
[deleted] 5y ago
Hey I love this perspective you are sharing.
Would you be able to link me up with the TED Talk?
Imadeathtrap 5y ago
Sure thing :)
https://youtu.be/tGdsOXZpyWE
Shanguerrilla 5y ago
Great points and additions to the thread! Thanks
melungeonmuscle 5y ago
You sound like a young kid who hasn't been through very much in life. Feelings or instincts can be a barometer to how things are moving in your life. Ignoring them is retarded and acting like you're too tough for them makes it sound like you don't know the true weight the world can place on you. Why do you think almost 80% of suicides are fucking men? Because we don't talk to each other anymore because we're all too fucking busy posting on reddit about how we should ignore our feelings and just execute. Life is not that simple.
PM_ME_UR_1ITIS_SNAP 5y ago
There have been people who have been through a lot in life and they share the same sentiment. A post titled irrational confidence describes how a man's bipolar mother tried to kill him several times when he was young. He says nothing scares him anymore, but he sees it as a good thing.
If your dad died, go ahead and cry. If you're reading about having sex with women on the internet, don't think about how your life has been unfair up to this point and how genetics fucked you over and you're not a natural.
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amedeo_modigliani 5y ago
No feelings = no problems. That's why books of Seneca became my bibles.
mmerijn 5y ago
It is not wrong to think about your emotions, it is wrong to accept your emotions as true. The problem with the sentence "how can I find the motivation to X" is that he accepts that he does not have motivation to do X; when you accept such a statement as true then you need to find an external way to "fix" that when a better solution is to say "Well, ok, I noticed that I have a hard time getting up." and then take small steps towards X in a pace that feels acceptable eg. running: You stop slouching and sit up straight, then you set both your feet on the ground, lift yourself up however slowly you want, walk towards your running shoes at whatever pace you want, put them on, and start running.
I get that here we say "Just go out and do it", but if you can't even manage to get yourself up you won't be able to build the discipline TO get up every day. So, you first need to break everything down into small steps and train that "discipline" or "motivation" (both really stem from the same feeling). Just like with every exercise you don't start by running 40 kilometers with a 20 kilograms backpack on but by taking a step by step approach.
JerryLawlerPigFace 5y ago
Meditation has shown me a lot of different things but relevant to this post, it’s shown me that the search for happiness is a paradox of sorts:
We search for happiness by trying to think our way out of our problems. We think, think, and think some more, seeking the right combination of thoughts to liberate us from our problems. Compulsive thinking then becomes habitual over time.
Sure enough, no amount of compulsive thinking can produce the right combination of thoughts to produce sustained joy & fulfillment, the reason being is that it is the compulsive thinking itself is what is causing our “problems”.
All emotion is caused by thought. Cessation of thinking may very well show you that what you thought of as problems are merely transitory mental states.
Dazzing67 5y ago
i feel like people should stop searching for happiness, you can't really achieve permanently. i feel like you should be more inclined to making your life comfortable, but not too comfortable as to where you get lazy. just emotionally comfortable. always setting new goals, because once you achieved a goal it all gets boring real fast and you won't be "as happy as you used to be"
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JerryLawlerPigFace 5y ago
Holy fuck man. Thank you for this. Julian has basically fully experienced the insight in which I’ve only had a short glimpse of. Whatever I was trying to write about up above ^ was what Julian expanded upon in the video.
This was extremely helpful and important. Thanks again.
OfficerWade 5y ago
Well, it’s one thing to ignore your feelings. You don’t wanna throw them in the trunk but you don’t wanna let them drive the bus either.