Hi all,
First post, wanted to make it a valuable one. There's a lot of emphasis here on vetting potential partners, so as not to walk into a shit storm, but I haven't seen much on how to actually go about it. So here's how I vetted someone at work showing interest in me. This isn't a CIA Field Manual, just a basic application of dirt digging in order to save time and avoid misery.
Note: We're ignoring 'Don't Shit Where You Eat' for a this, since at best I was thinking (pre-vetting) about maybe letting her fuck me after I leave the job in a week, maybe turning her into a FWB. I'm as vocal a proponent of DSWYE as anyone.
This is a long story, I don't read the TL;DR on posts so I'm not giving one. Take your medicine whole.
BODY
Thursday:
Pop around to a Susan's house to say hello since she's always telling me to come over, and I'm always driving past. She works in the same room as me, we talk occasionally, I know her boyfriend. Walk up to the front of the house, she and her boyfriend are there with a few others drinking and smoking weed on a work night - relevant later. We catch up, go inside, Susan mentions a friend of hers who works with us, Chloe, has been asking about me. I don't give any indication of interest. The couple invite me over to their house party on Saturday, drinks, people bringing plates of food, etc.
Chloe has a very plain face, but seems to be in shape and possibly works out based on what I saw of her leaving work once in a tight training tank. Perhaps 7/10 body, face would need extensive makeup to get above a 4/10.
Friday
No contact with either of them, but I'm starting to get a few stares and smiles from Chloe now - Susan has definitely told her what she told me the previous night. This is some real high school bullshit right here.
Saturday Morning
Morning overtime shift - too busy to talk to either of them until the end, Susan and Chloe are wrapping up their station, Susan asks if I'm still coming to drinks tonight. Chloe smiling looking friendly.
Saturday Afternoon
I finish work and decide to start doing a little homework since Chloe is plainly going to be at this thing tonight.
Facebook tells me a lot. 800+ friends, all visible, several hundred photos, all visible. Many of these are party photos, and 99% of those have her and her friends holding up the "Two In The V, Pip The B" handsign - like the devil horns, but with the middle finger up as well. One in there of her and the friends with pants down, bare ass - like that pose girls do on a ski mountain, but in a shitty looking lounge.
Oh, and three kids.
None of this is looking good. Excessive friends and a billion photos screams validation to me, and I'm wary of people who don't enact a measure of privacy on Facebook. The photos tell a pretty plain story that she drinks and parties a lot.. which seems to clash with having 3 kids - again, relevant later.
Saturday Night
I show up to the party early evening since they were apparently kicking off around lunchtime. That should have been a warning sign.. nobody drinks from lunchtime until the small hours of the next morning. Without going into too much detail, the place is a drug den. There's a bit of drinking, a LOT more smoking. I get a few drinks in, have some bizarre interactions with completely wasted druggies - as it turns out, Susan included. An hour in, the meth comes out. At this stage I decide to split.
Another piece goes into the vetting folder - Susan and Chloe are tight, so it's more than likely Chloe is like Susan in regard to drug use.
Sunday
It's a small world, as they say - and this is a small town. I go catch up with an older friend who'd been out the previous night at a party a few streets over with some of her friends. She goes into all the gossipy bullshit about so'an so's daughter and this and that and the other, and a big warning light goes off.
My friend is talking about Chloe. She was with Chloe's mother the previous night at her party. Chloe's mother was worried about her daughter going to some dodgy party a few streets over, and as the night goes on starts to call Chloe's phone telling her to come home now. Send's Chloe's father around to get her, who returns saying that she's not coming home, and the party is full of weed and meth.
I mention to my friend that I know Chloe from work, and press for details. Now everything falls into place.
Chloe has been in and out of prison for the last several years. Has 3 kids to two different, and very rough, fathers. Doesn't have custody, limited visitation. Prison time for drug and theft related offenses. Moved back in with her parents to get away from the drug scene, but has gone back to it while under their roof.
LESSONS LEARNED
- Be judgmental, if only to yourself. Stop trying to see the best in people when your subconscious is trying to warn you of something.
- Watch for the subtle clues, remember them. They tend to have a decent rate of accuracy, and form a telling collage.
- Social Media is a powerful vetting tool at your disposal in the digital age. Look for excessive party pics, overt sexual suggestion and signs of validation seeking.
- A person can be vetted to a certain extent by her choice of friends and environment. The friend of a druggie is also likely a druggie.
- Ask around discretely - chances are somebody knows her, and knows more about her than you.
- Be wary of anything past discrete and occasional drug use, and anything beyond alcohol and weed. Also excessive use during the night before work.
- Pictures of kids, but not her WITH the kids, is a warning sign.
I'll be adding to this as I mull it over for the next few days to figure out anything else I can learn, and how I could have further vetted this person given the tools at hand.
LodestarAuriga 5y ago
Man, that Susan is a bitch for even trying to send Chloe your way. And you're too surrounded with drugs, gotta be careful with that.
3trauma3 5y ago
People do expose a lot about them on social media whether they realize it or not. I've always been good at peeping game but adding in my psych experience makes it exponentially easier.
oytrp 5y ago
This didn't need to be nearly this detailed. It's pretty simple:
Works with you? NEXT
Has kids? NEXT
You could have stopped at the first one.
slumdog-millionaire 5y ago
Seriously, THREE kids, not 1, fucking 3, that should have been the end of OP's story. Also questioning what kind of work/job OP is in. If your coworkers are doing meth (coke for poor people) you're probably not in the best place in life, which may not necessarily be a reflection on OP but in this case coupled with the other details, OP is not someone I would take advice or input from. Not sure who is finding value in this post and upvoting
HumanSockPuppet 5y ago
This is more of a demonstration of how he used various sources to dig up information on the chick. The detail was for outlining the method, not because it was a difficult decision to make.
SLICKlikeBUTTA 5y ago
I feel like he could've seen most of these signs way before he decided to go hangout with them. I'm curious what the girl looks like.
Satou4 5y ago
I agree. Small towns though, harder to get everything you want. I can see why this guy would give her a chance even if she was working with him. Depends on the population. He needs to go somewhere bigger.
kiwifx 5y ago
I'm heading somewhere much bigger.. this place has a drug problem the size of bigger places in the size of a tiny one. It also has a major drought of decent women.
oytrp 5y ago
Everybody thinks they are some special case where the rules don't apply.
No. Small town, I don't care. No pussy is worth hurting your career.
Satou4 5y ago
It really depends. If there are only 5k people around then it takes a lot more effort. It can be easy to just date the girl from work.
oytrp 5y ago
No, It doesn't depend.
It's easy to date the 55 year old overweight single mom too. Doesn't mean you should do it.
Satou4 5y ago
That's why I said he should move.
I'm not gonna be patronized. You can sit down now.
oytrp 5y ago
Move if you can but 5k people is plenty.
Own your shit, lift and run game.
smirk_addict 5y ago
People have no idea how rough it can get in small towns. When you make it a point to day game and all you come across are single moms, chubby chicks and girls still in high school...sometimes you just want to bang your cute coworker that smells good and wears sexy clothes. I had a government job. I never and would never fuck that up for sex. But life has its twist and turns. Now I’m the admin assistant at a fledgling temp job with no benefits. I’ve fucked two of my coworkers and things are great.
Yes, trying to move.
Satou4 5y ago
Ya, small town means you're fucked. So it's monk mode all the way until you can leave. Sad but true.
Luckyluke23 5y ago
this story is gold! I love it!
best bit:
DouglasPR 5y ago
To clear my mind from testosterone driven weakness, I switch genders on the subject and apply the same criteria. "do I want to be seen with this guy? Do I want this guy and his friends in my life?" We tend to make lame judgements when thinking with our dicks and cut a lot of slack when judging carachter of women.
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dingman58 5y ago
Been using this "flip the gender" trick with other aspects as well. Works pretty great
Profligate-Prophet 5y ago
For sure i mean it helps me too "do you wanna be caught in a highway rest stop sicking his dick?"
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Jo0wZ 5y ago
I add random people on fb for fun and post dank memes
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Zhigaag 5y ago
Agreed. As someone with 7 kids between two different women, I can totally relate.
My ex-wife was all "my kids are my life" on Facebook. Oh yeah, then why do I have custody of them? Hmmm???
kiwifx 5y ago
The only pics on her page of them are a school photo, which I'm guessing the deadbeat custodian father decided to give her. Pretty sure she ain't posting photos of the supervised visits.
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IntensePancakes 5y ago
I like the idea of vetting but why write all this up for some girl who was basically a 0/10?
I'd like to see a post like this where the answer wasn't in your face the entire damn time. Your "brilliant takeway" here was don't fuck a meth head with 3 kids.
JJ3314 5y ago
If your goal is a hookup I can see vetting having limited utility. If the goal is an LTR/marriage, social media offers a huge advantage for a man WRT vetting. The problem is that most men in society start off dating mainly for short term sexual purposes, but through the force of inertia get dragged into the marriage game. That's dumb: unless you are 100% certain you will not get married, or have a significant LTR with a woman, you need to vet her rigorously, and be judgemental regarding potential for a LTR upfront.
I firmly believe that if a LTR is sought, you should have like 80% of the vetting consist of background checks, mostly in the form of social media, and like 20% based on actual conversation with the girl, and direct observation. You have to place much more stock in judging her behavior when she isn't aware that she's being evaluated for her relationship potential, and these candid photos/posts are good for that. Better to disqualify a woman early for the purposes of an LTR based on this, and so therefore be judgemental as hell. You can decide on your own if you still want to plate her afterwards or not. Another thing you can do is casually talk about her college experience, major, job, what college she went to, in a seemingly non-judgemental way, all the while tallying in your mind the likelihood of significant debt (especially if her parents aren't of means). For a hookup, it's obviously a different story.
atticusfinch1973 5y ago
Even without doing the leg work you did these are all things you would have found out once you got to know her directly. She sounds like a train wreck and if anything you should be pissed at Susan for even suggesting that she hook her up with you. They all sound like fairly low value people.
enderbeannn 5y ago
I don't know how this is supposed to help me vet potential partners. This chick had so many red flags that vetting doesn't even need to take place. Even if you were to vet her, one look at her 4/10 face (on the best of days) should have been enough
touch99 5y ago
It looks like you dodged a bullet pal, good for you! how do they function at work with their meth use? In hindsight are there any quirky behaviors they exhibited that you can attribute to meth use?
kiwifx 5y ago
I don't work with the boyfriend who I saw smoking it. Not sure if he's on it at work or if it's a weekend thing, apparently it's out of the system pretty quickly so he might be able to get away with that.
There's one guy I work with who is a heavy Ritalin user, always tweaked like he's had the world's strongest coffee. Not the greatest guy to be around when you work with knives.
Youngyoda89 5y ago
All of this is too much. You vetted her way to hard. If you’re inexperienced I understand, but if not you should be able to make a decision without going this deep. In essence; you should have spotted this from a mile away.
Additionally, if she’s a 4 in the face and only a 7 in the body, you dont need to go any further.
Zhigaag 5y ago
I laughed considerably when I read that line. Haha. Also too, worth mentioning, that Chloe was not a 4 in the face, she COULD be a 4 with a lot of very expensive and intentionally applied cosmetics...but, with her history of partying, drinking, and smoking meth, I highly doubt there was even half of an attempt to properly apply her base-coat of primer, much less the top coats of mirror-like color and glass-like poly. No, it was probably just enough of an effort, with the cheapest wal-mart makeup around, to cover up the divots and craters and help ensure that she could get laid by someone who wasn't two sheets to the wind.
Youngyoda89 5y ago
Yea my point is- if a woman is that recognizeably bad I wouldn’t even bother vetting her. Essentially- you don’t have to vet a woman just because she is interested in you. Sometimes you know right of the bat that you’re not interested so you don’t need to go any further.
Even if she was a solid 7 in looks, 3 kids is enough to kill my interest. Though i find, the more I improve myself and the wiser I get, the choosier I become as well. If a woman has 3 kids she would have to look like Kim k for me to consider plating her ass.
Killing__Time_ 5y ago
Very good work. For me, smoking is off-putting from the get go, as it makes people look a lot older than they are (its fucks with the nutrition-carrying capacity of your blood, which fucks with your skin). So if they cannot control that aspect of their life, you'll be stuck with a zombie who looks 40+ when they are actually 25.
kiwifx 5y ago
Cigarettes or weed? Since I quit, I couldn't get involved with a cigarette smoker, and I actually kinda judge the girls that were with me when I smoked and put up with that shit. Weed, I can't stand the smell/effects so that goes in the same basket.
You're right - a girl that smokes through her prime years gives up the chance at still looking good without caked on makeup in her mid-late 30's. I think Stoicism highlights your second point in self control. I get that it's hard to quit, been there. But to me, based on experience it begs the question, "What else can't you control?"
Killing__Time_ 5y ago
I'd say both, but for weed it depends on frequency. But I am willing to consider if someone used to smoke in the past, but eventually decided to quit and successfully has. That depends on whether they are trying to clean up their act because the wall is approaching.
Arrys 5y ago
I rule out tobacco smokers by and large, but I’m far more open to pot use, depending on the frequency and the other factors in their life as you’ve said.
I consider myself quite the stoner, usually getting high at the end of the work days just for a nice, calming end to the day. But in between that I work 40 hours at my job, diet, and exercise 6 times a week, so not all who smoke weed are necessarily sloth about it.
Killing__Time_ 5y ago
Don't get me wrong: I do not despise weed smokers. I smoked it too, and I've quit for now since I felt that it severely hampered my attention-span. I used to do it to manage pain after BJJ, but now I choose to stretch instead and see no need for it.
phenixpker 5y ago
Hey, smoker here looking to quit. What was the hardest part of quitting for you and how did you overcome any hurdles related to?
blownnnn 5y ago
Smoke for 14 years and quit cold turkey for 4 years now.
The positive in you smoking is that its a habit. Be proud that you have created a habit! Now, you have the opportunity to replace smoking with a good habit! You just have to trick the brain, our brain is not smart...it is very malleable. I replaced it with exercise. I picked a day and quit cold turkey.
Last days of smoking, I just smoked to enjoy it, knowing that it's going to end on that day and there is no turning back. It's like losing your best friend - leaving for good. We laughed, we cried, we shivered, we looked at the stars, we took in the air, we thought deeply, it was great...then we said farewell.
Its going to be tough and you must accept, it's over. The key points here YOU MUST DO:
Take it day by day, it's important now to be hard on yourself and reward any victory you've had over your craving. Once you reach Day 23 it will be over. You will no longer think of smoking, and your brain will take on the new habit you've created.
kiwifx 5y ago
Check out 'Allen Carr - Easy Way To Quit Smoking'. Great book, gets rid of the mental brainwashing of smoking.
Vaping is another good option, can either just enjoy that and stick with it, or cut down the nicotine in that which is easy.
phenixpker 5y ago
Alright, will do. Thanks my dude
Moz4 5y ago
The Allen Carr book is how I quit. The idea is you keep smoking while reading the book. I had tried to quit many many many times. I legit smoked a pack and a half of Newports a day. More if I could. I strongly urge you to get the book.
[deleted] 5y ago
Yo what worked for me in the nicotine mini lozenge but you have to want to quit.
I personally don’t trust vaping with the long term effects but it is better then smoking short term.
MyReddit6 5y ago
There is companies in New York making low nicotine non addictive cigarettes that have 75-90% less tar as well. Study just got published by the FDA that smokers enjoy the cigs & in a 6week period it eventually leads to quitting due to the low nicotine
aBetterNation 5y ago
Go out one night. Drink and for a bit and then smoke an entire pack in a span of 2 hours before bed.
When you wake up you’ll feel and smell terrible. Then smoke one more as soon as you wake up. Now that you feel extra terrible toss the pack of cigarettes out of the window and say “I’ll never smoke again”.
Then just avoid smokers like the plague for 2/3 weeks.
After 3 weeks you shouldn’t get a bad craving to smoke around others but you may be tempted. Just keep a drink or water with a straw in your hand to sip when you feel the urge to take a drag. Also tell everyone that smoking is gross and you’ll never do it again no matter what that way you’re also pressuring yourself lol.
Haven’t smoked in 3 years!
phenixpker 5y ago
That's actually an interesting thought, I've had those nights out where that happens, but I always "needed" that cig a day later due to habit. Congrats on three years off the cancer sticks
aBetterNation 5y ago
Throw the pack away. Just do it. Even if you go and buy a pack and smoke a cig. Just throw it out the window while you drive whenever you feel like you should be smoking.
Trust me. I got a friend off of it the same way.
Devils_Duke 5y ago
You can build up an idea of what your red flags are based on girls (normally ONS / plate / FWB) who you know to be thoroughly un-LTR-able and what features they have all shared. One night stands and some plates will be very open and honest with you about their sluttiness / red flag traits when they are aware that that's all they are to you. I've started to almost interview them to uncover these common denominators.
I've long suspected 1000+ facebook friends is at least a yellow flag. Does anyone have a perspective on this?
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500+ friends
500+ selfies
20+per day relationship meme shares
Excessive horoscope memes
All red flags. Avoid at all costs.
kiwifx 5y ago
It might be different in other countries or scenes, but my number is around 300-400. Below that, I can believe you might have a shitload of people you know. Above that, I think you're adding everyone you met at every party you've been to, and you're hoping a few suggestive pics will draw some validation comments.
1000+ may as well be Instagram followers..
bluesnsouls 5y ago
Where I live 1000+ is the baseline haven’t seen someone with less than that in a long time
rorrr 5y ago
Sounds like you need better friends. You're surrounded by drugs.
SLICKlikeBUTTA 5y ago
That's what I got from this. I want to see what this girl looks like for op to not suspect she's fucked up like this.
C-ingRed 5y ago
Christ, he needs a better job too.
kiwifx 5y ago
The job's good, unfortunately it's infested with druggies who are very good at hiding it.
RedPillPhx 5y ago
This setting is identical to at least half the restaurants I've had the pleasure of working in.
downtownsexyhound 5y ago
Owner clearly doesn't know that liability insurance will not cover the company if they don't have a drug policy...and testing.
kiwifx 5y ago
Hah, this is where it gets funny. Susan's boyfriend is the only one I saw smoking meth at the party. I can't confirm Susan using.
Anyway, a while back Susan's boyfriend cut himself. No arteries, first aider was able to patch it up with those thin strips to close the wound. I've done this myself, same spot on the arm. At this point, wound closed, you normally go to hospital for stitches after doing a drug test (drug test only required when going to hospital for treatment). He declined, didn't even get the fucking wound washed out with betadine, just went about his day.
I've done this, went and passed the drug test and off to hospital for stitches. I remember him telling me about how he was petrified of stitches a week after he'd cut himself and thought nothing of it. Now it clicks why he didn't want the stitches, and consequently the drug test.
Unfortunately my company in particular is desperate to retain even shitty workers to keep the company going, in an industry where this is the business as usual. Even to the extent of easily navigable drug policy.
ECoast_Man 5y ago
Interesting situation but these are obvious red flags, even before the prison-bomb was dropped.
Single mom - red flag
Three kids? Huge red flag
Hard drug use - red flag
These aren’t subtle at all. And it’s not exactly groundbreaking to tell us to use social media and ask around to get background info.
The best way when it isn’t in your face is get a few drinks and social engineer by pretending to be cool and ‘sex-positive’ and just get her to reveal her history on her own. When I was younger it was the game ‘never have I ever’ which made it easy. You’ll get a sense of her n-count, sluttery she has done, etc.
Some other more subtle ones as examples-
Slut-enabling friends. Immediately suspicious if I know her friends are sluts.
Has taken vacations by themselves. This is anti-social behaviour and in my experience was to ‘get away’ from her own bad decisions and get non-judgmental cock.
Anyways there are loads, but I’m pretty sure
kiwifx 5y ago
Definitely, basic shit and really only first-line vetting - I'm not out there finding out about her upbringing, relationship with father and all that stuff you'd look for in a potential LTR.
Like I said, old BP me would have tried to White Knight this. I'm still learning the more intuitive side of RP, calibration, subtext, being able to spot the little things. Seeing the subtle ones will come in time I guess.. I'm positive Susan is a slut-enabling friend.. but that wouldn't have occurred to me here under my own steam.
childish206 5y ago
I wouldnt put highly attractive women (10s) in that category. One thing i have noticed with women is that they can be extremely intimidated by women who look better than them. I mean tbh friendships are temporary. You really cant trust anyone. Not in the world we live in today.
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ECoast_Man 5y ago
That's my feeling as well.
Even the perhaps least harmful thing (full ass on social media) would be immediate crimson, blood red flag, for me. Let alone the other shit.
kiwifx 5y ago
Yep, and as I said above, this is barely vetting, but a useful exercise for me to internalize. If I'd bumped into her at the house party I'm sure I would have seen the crazy.
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besee777 5y ago
Idk what it is but the girls that have cat pictures or pics of there animals are some of the freakiest ones I’ve seen on tinder lmao in my expirence
Hyperintelligentwolf 5y ago
Can I message you in direct chat?
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[deleted] 5y ago
What’s wrong with a solo vacation? Some of my best travel experiences have been solo. I don’t understand your second point.
SirKolbath 5y ago
You're not a woman. When you go on a solo vacation, aren't you looking for ass? Well, she's looking for strange dick.
My solo vacations are somewhat different. I like to take four day's worth of food and disappear into the woods for a week or more. Not many chicks hiding in the wilderness of the Pacific Northwest looking for cock.
[deleted] 5y ago
“You're not a woman. When you go on a solo vacation, aren't you looking for ass? Well, she's looking for strange dick.”
Not really, but if it happens great. I generally go to clear out some of the noise and reorient myself towards my values and principles.
SirKolbath 5y ago
See? Told you that you weren't a woman.
ECoast_Man 5y ago
You're not a chick, is the key difference
[deleted] 5y ago
Why is that significant in that context? I’m not being facetious I genuinely don’t understand your perspective here.
ECoast_Man 5y ago
Well as answered by /u/SirKolbath, men and women are different dontcha know? It’s the N-Count for women that matters, not men. By that I mean - it is inverse.
However, there’s almost no chance you’ve travelled more than I have. I was a foreign service brat (four countries) and fucking age in two of them long term. Travelled to all of them since multiple times, and have worked in two others since graduating. Currently travel inside the country about once a month and outside two or three times a year.
Not bragging, just giving you the layout. Chicks travelling by themselves are by far the easiest lays. As in every time it is fuck the same night as meeting. Every time. Universally. They are fucked up in some way.
I’ve travelled by myself a couple times myself, but that was to take a break from work. Read a book. Stick my head in the sand. Chicks go to ‘find themselves’ and by that they mean ‘fuck dudes constantly’
[deleted] 5y ago
Admittedly that has been my experience as well, first time I left the country I travelled around on my own dime at 18, many years ago. Was surprised by how many cock thirsty girls had boyfriends back home. I was so naive, I didn’t take them up on their offers because I wouldn’t want to be the guy on the other side of the fence. Not sure if I would do it differently today. I left to figure out what kind of person I wanted to be after a very rocky situation during my adolescence. didn’t think I wanted to be the guy who fucked other dudes’ girls. Perhaps that’s something akin to integrity, or maybe it’s being a sucker. Honestly not sure.
319Skew 5y ago
TL;DR: I didn't bang an ugly drug addicted mother of three kids that happens to be my coworker.
DeontologicalSanders 5y ago
Honestly the 'shocker' hand symbol is the biggest red flag in this whole story. Never met anyone of value over the age of 17 who did that.
kiwifx 5y ago
Bingo - I knew there were a name for it, couldn't fucking remember it.
Companyinternational 5y ago
Learn some body language.
If someone does meth you should be able to pick that up super quick from body language. You know, instead of staring at her ass and tits all the time. Jeez.
You basically never need to catch someone doing meth to know they do meth (or something just as shitty). Ffs.
People like that look like they are going through life with network lag. You know what I mean? Its all uncanny valley stuff.
kiwifx 5y ago
You've skipped my original post. I've never said she does meth herself, the friends do. She's never showed any signs, she's actually been quite pleasant. And with the protective gear we wear, she looks as attractive in the ass/tits department as the fat 50 year old guy next to her in line.
Companyinternational 5y ago
Susan and Chloe are tight. Susan does meth. Pretty high chance that Chloe also does meth. And if not, she's probably an enabler for someone fucking up their life with some truly destructive shit. Either way, Danger, Danger, Danger.
Satou4 5y ago
tbh if her face is that far from her body she probably does meth