Can relate, my dad never wanted to talk

Might just be because he’s older (58)

It has nothing to do with age. Age, if anything, makes men more assertive (certainly within their household), just as it makes females more deceptive and exploitative.

Fundamental traits are augmented by age.

How to deal with him? Knowing that he's basically a good man, but that he can't get any more mature than he is (basically, a lost baby) and can't function as a guide to you.

Surprised at the comments here.

First of all, you don't know what kind of childhood your Dad had until you know. People take their Dad's (when they have them) for granted as these objects that suddenly sprung into life in their 30s with no backstory. Usually 90% of what your Dad is, is because of how he was parented.

Second, have empathy for your Dad. Having even one child means sacrificing at least 50% of your life and time; forced to work a job to make pay; weekends gone to sports; vacations for the benefit of the kids etc. Imagine being 17 and suddenly having to give up 50% of your everything to be FORCED to contribute to something and knowing you'll have to do it for the next 18 years. Most jobs suck major balls and he's doing it for YOU.

Third, and I'm biased/old fashioned in this regard, but there's a reason honoring your parents is one of the Ten Commandments. It's not a right, it's a duty. You wouldn't exist without your parents, period. That fact alone means you are indebted, period. Barring physical abuse and real bad shit, there's no reason not to serve, respect, cherish and love your parents, ever. Most of these gripes here are petty and immature.

Seriously, imagine working hard your entire life, finding a wife that's loyal enough to marry and have children, sacrificing at least $70.000 and 3000 hours as well as 20000 hours in a full time job you may not like. Just so that your son can look up some shit on the internet (that you bought) on a computer (that you bought) in the basement (of the house you bought) only to say: Dad ur a beta lolololzz.

JFL at people taking Dad for granted without working a full time job for 10+ years and spending 70+k over a period of 18 years.

My relationship with my dad is very similar to yours. We idolize our fathers growing up and tend to be very bias. Other than the occasional stories of his adventures of his younger days, I have never had any personal advice from my father on how to be a man and move forward in life. I don't blame him for it, he moved to the city with my mom to find a good job and had three kids to support. I guess eventually, the corporate grind wears you out.

Don't hate on your old man bro. Just learn from his mistakes, and make sure that if you ever have kids in the future, you'll be a better father to your kids than yours was ever to you.

My father was beta too, or at least i thought he was. When he was young, he was one of the best tae kwon do fighters around. I saw him break 3 2-inch wood blocks with his bare hands at once when i was 12, and i always looked up to him until he lost everything. he was depressed, never left his house, and an overall disappointment to everyone. our conversations degenerated into the same situation as you, and my life was miserable because my father figure was a straw man. My mom stayed with him even though money was tight because, well, maternal instinct. she can't leave 2 children; or so i thought.

it was when i went out into the world and started fending for myself that i realized that he did everything for a reason. He talked to me awkwardly and asked how school was because he didn't know me very well. He didn't have a connection with me because I didn't know him, and he didn't know me. He never disciplined me because he wanted me to find discipline myself.

We talked after i grew up, and so much made sense. I can understand him because i went through the trials and failures he did. We finally made a connection through experience, and we bonded like friends meeting after a war. That's when he told me, for the first time in my life "I'm proud of you son. the world is yours, you just have to grab it."

You think you can talk to your brother because you feel the same way about your dad. It's a common interest, a connection. If you want to talk to your dad like a buddy, become someone he can consider a buddy, because he sure isn't going to stoop to your level.

Your father is a successful man, and if he's a leader in communities, then he's got alpha qualities that he CHOOSES to show. He calls you lazy because in his eyes your work ethic is shit, you never study, whatever he might think. He doesn't consider you an adult; an equal.

You don't want to converse with your dad, you want him to talk to you about YOUR interests. you don't make friends by walking up to them and saying "hey i like this and this," you let them talk about themselves and their interests first. do you even know what your father likes and dislikes accurately? No, not what you observed, but what you have heard him say. you're not interested in your father or having a relationship. you only care about your reality that you animate in your still growing skull. take reality for what it is, not what's being played in your head. you're ALWAYS the main character in your story, and you want him to win, i understand. but even when you can win, you should still lose sometimes. you can't have your cake and eat it too.

"He should just talk to me like I'm his buddy"

As a father, it's not my job to be your buddy. I'm your father; I shall lead you, advise you, criticize you and attempt to help you become a man. I feel for you that your dad was not and is not there for you as you would like. No father that I know has zero regrets. As you age you may come to understand his behaviours. Learn from what he did, and didn't, do for you. If you decide to have your own family (good luck in today's society) then strive to be a better father.

I wish you the strength required to grapple with your situation.

TBH if you were my son I wouldn't talk to your either.

Tons of people have a home personality and a work personality. Your dad probably is just an introverted dude who put on a mask to succeed at work, just my speculation though.

Nowadays dads barely raise their kids if at all, I'm not shocked at all he's not involved. But, don't hate your dad over this, look at it this way, how is he supposed to teach you to be a man if by your own description he's a beta...

Buy the book Way of the Superior Male, read the first chapter, "Live as Though Your Father was Dead" and then do what you want with the rest of the book. If you internalize that chapter, it will literally help with everything in your life, especially everything youre writing about.

It doesn't mean you ignore your dad or you love him less. He's your dad, people would literally kill for a present father. It does mean that you don't base your concept of how the world works, who you are as a person, what you want to do with life, on him.

Learn to read and interpret the world for yourself, ad define what is important to you based on your own beliefs. Think about it this way - every young man has some axe to grind, some battle to fight. Most 58 year olds have been through that. By 58 my dad had buried 2 parents, 4 grandparents, etc, dealt with family splitting off / estate battles, being excommunicated for marrying the wrong girl, decades of menial labor, tons of sacrifice for us, constant battles with me over various shit, etc.

Now him + my mom basically just chill and watch TV and go on hikes and shit. That's all they want to do, and they are about that age your dad is. Checked out, they don't give a shit about being "the best people they can be" or even staying up to date with technology. For them, all they need is a call once a month from me to check in and nag me about marriage.

When you are older, you will forgive them for being the way they are - most parents don't know WTF they are doing, and they just do the best they can. But in that process of forgiving and accepting your parents, you also learn to live as though they are dead.

What this means is that when I was abroad for a year, I didn't consult them I just went. I paid my own way through college with loans and a side job because they didn't have shit, and as a result when I wanted to not be a doctor (cliche indian problems), they couldn't say shit. When I joined a frat, they couldn't say shit, and I didn't ask for their opinion.

This is life as an adult. Be independent. If you love your parents, you can accept them as they are, and you can ask them once in a while, like "hey dad, honestly, are you happy" that kind of thing, and feel out whether they want your advice. My dad doesn't, he's probably going to die because he's got high cholesterol and diabetes, and won't adhere to his diet because he can't give up childhood foods. Tough shit man, I tried, he won't do it, I'm moving the fuck on. Every few years I'll try, but mentally I've accepted he won't see 70.

Do you understand? Live as through your parents are dead. Understand this and you will learn how to actually love your dad for what he is, and understand that he's a beta male, but still your dad - you can learn from him. You might just be learning what not to do, and through that, he's given you ALL YOU NEED as a father. He's sending you out into the world with self-knowledge and the independence you'll need to succeed and be a better dad than he is if that day comes. So don't worry about it - when you are a child, you use your parents as excuses for your own failings and you resent them.

When you are an adult, the buck stops with you. If you suck with girls, your fault. If you can't get a good career going, your fault. Fat? Your fault. Beta? Your fault. And it's doubly your fault, isn't it - you had all the knowledge you needed at your disposal.

This post is pretty much my dad too except my dad isn't a businessman. I'm not kidding at all. From never having any deep conversations to basically being a bad male role model.

I don't think you're overreacting. It can be really frustrating when you realize how blue pill your dad is. At least you have realized this now at 17 years old. I've only come to the complete realization that our dad was blue pill earlier this year after noticing that everytime there's a problem, even the smallest of problems, his instinct is to be a bitch and be a victim. Always acting helpless.

How to deal with this kind of dad? I would say just don't depend on them anymore. You already know that your dad can't do much for you as a good father figure/male role model so why wait until he becomes one. You're a young adult now. Still, respect your dad and be thankful for what you have because of him. Nobody's perfect. He may not have turned out to be that alpha dad that you hoped for but you're still better off than millions of other people your age.

I blame authoritarian parenting for the blue pill character of my dad. Dad grew up without a mother and was raised solely by his father, who was a general in the army. I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually raised in a manner that was "do as I say because I told you so, no questions or I'll beat the shit out of you". I am 100% sure this destroyed his ability of express himself.

1. You can't change other people. Be the person you want to see in the world.
2. Public vs private life is like that. We are all putting on a show.
3. Don't use the term beta or alpha. The people who consider themselves "alpha" are neckbeards who live in basements.
4. Get better grades by spending less time on the internet and more time in books and discipline yourself by not imagining a perfect world but living in this one.
5. Recognize learned patterns within you from him should they arise and without judging them, don't act on them. Especially with how you relate to women.
6. Start practicing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and some form of striking like muay thai or good ol' american boxing.

It may be that many men see faults in their father, as no one else can. I'd recommend breaking the ice by being a bit assertive about it, maybe go grab dinner and ask him about his relationship with his father. Likely you will both learn something.

Part of growing up is realizing that your parents aren't the best parents in the world, really. Teenagers usually suffer because of this. They realize they have wrong idols. That they parents have issues and don't know how to deal with most of them, just like everyone else. What would I do if I was you? Just send him this link and let him know the real truth about how you feel in your life.

One of the hardest things you'll ever do in life is to separate the self you want to be from the conditioned self that behaves as your parents did.

But this is the essence of free will.

There will come times when you find yourself behaving as your father or mother did.

Those are the moments when you really need to take a step back and assess your own mind.

I can relate to this - I'm 17 my father is incredibly accomplished but sadly beta and passive at home. His parents divorced when 11, he lived in borderline poverty while he became an all American swimmer setting high school records, got accepted into community college at age 16 and transferred to the naval academy at 18 then proceeded to graduate with honor's and served 20 years as a submarine officer. His hobbies are mountain climbing (currently working on mt Everest), cycling, swimming still, sailing, etc. He's 57, makes a 6 figure income and is still in tremendous shape and has a rather intimidating presence even though he's only 5'11.

All this taken together, beta as fuck. Complete nerd in high school, extreme introvert, didn't date any girls until after the naval academy and they ran all over him. He met my mom at 32 (she was 28), married her at 35 (surprisingly he was engaged with her for 3 years and my mom always whines he always put off the wedding, so maybe not totally beta?). He's still a civilian worker for the navy and often goes on long trips, I'm basically raised by my mom. It's fucking awful, I look like my mother and I hate my mother. Lazy, unorganized, procrastinates, always tardy, not exceptional in anyway (except apparently she always had IQ 130+ but she is classifiable as useless). Can I play football, MMA, hockey, or anything really manly or fun? 'No it's dangerous'. Woman are to be pedestalized, "chivalry is dead", "men are evil", "you need to constantly ask women for consent for EVERY SINGLE PHYSICAL THING", I can go on. All unintentionally self sabotaging behavior being encouraged, you name it she has given it to me as advice.

So now that I've come to TRP I've realized why I've been so god damn unhappy, because my mom and society has been spoon feeding me lies all my life and my dad (at the very least feels) powerless to stop it. I've always had the impression he see's me as defective because he cannot understand other peoples inability to succeed like he does, because of how driven he is at everything. He doesn't really talk to me, he's never really left me with anything profound, he just focuses on his work, supporting the family, then his hobbies. I'm basically on my own, and my only other sibling is my autistic older sister who is 19 (and not functional, she has no independent future in society and it's depressing how she sits there 30+ pounds overweight on the couch all day with a tablet) so I have nowhere to look for good familial role models.

So cheers to TRP, for giving me hope to improve myself now and work towards a better future. Sometimes I wish my family was dead, not because I wish death upon them (and would definitely regret it deeply if they died) but so maybe I could remember them positively rather than despise as I do now.

I see a few parallels in your situation with mine. I'm 19. As one comment said, your dad does seem introverted a bit and it's true that parents don't raise much these days. Me and my brother are the same as you and yours. Dad cucks and places mom on a pedestal. Believe me when I say that it hurts and angers you. I foresee mom leaving my dad soon enough or taking full advantage of him while he is clueless. You might have even tried implementing RP aspects in dad's life like we have, but remember it's useless. Best thing I have for you and what I've learned is its part of the acceptance phase. You just have to let it be and happen which is hard but hey, what can you really do? Of course love your parents, but they are their own selves at the end of the day. You have to accept, let it be, and do you, because no one else will.

You need to make peace with who he is. Ultimately your dad is an archetype for what it means to you to be a man. And if you have misgivings about him it will almost certainly spell misgivings about being masculine in some way. Even if he can't emotionally connect with you, you need to emotionally connect with him.

Is your dad my dad? Wow.

I bought him ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ over two years ago for Christmas, which he didn’t read. Any time I call him out - usually for being a childish pushover - he just changes the subject and it absolutely disappoints me.

I think I just need to accept who he is. He won’t change. He’s on his second marriage and didn’t do a prenup because “well, son, when you love someone things like that don’t matter.” I can’t change him and I’ve given up trying.

Don’t be a ‘promise keeper’ (The Rational Male has a section on this) and do the complete opposite of him. I am sure he has done some things right for you; there is no reason to do the absolute opposite.

Your time to stop needing a father has arrived. Its more than normal to now see that your own father isnt perfect so stop beating him and yourself up over that. Time for you to become a man yourself which means dealing with dad isnt a real problem you need advice on

Your brother and your dad sound like they could be the same person in very different situations. He could be depressed as hell with his family, but can't take action because the fallout would be more harmful to all involved. I don't mean to defend your dad, he shouldn't have had a family if he didn't know how to lead it, but he may be leading it the best way he knows how without causing harm.

Another point, for what it is worth...I think the vast majority of males your age either resent or straight up hate their dad as they come to establish their own identity. Work for yourself, and listen to advice when offered, but never get mad if he doesn't meet your expectations. Those are your burden, not his.

You should only worry about yourself and your own journey to self improvement. My dad isn't alpha, but I am grateful that he was still there for me and not a huge piece of shit. You can find other role models in your life, books, movies, internet. It's impossible to know how all the events in your dad's life combined with his own brain make-up/personality made him who his is today. I would say appreciate him, because he won't be around forever. My dad is religious too and used to make me go to church when I was a teenager. I was really resentful and couldn't understand why he was forcing me to go to this weird cult with a dead dude nailed to a cross while we all sang and chanted. I realized though that my dad had strict religious parents and no internet to become exposed to new ideas so easily. People are who they are; sometimes for obvious reasons, sometimes for reasons you will never really know or understand. Best to just focus on yourself, and not hold on to hate or resentment.

Just accept your Dad for what he is and proceed with your life. Adopt a Buddhist mindset ----- don't expect anything from anyone and be grateful when good things happen to you. I don't expect shit from anyone. And trust me, there are fathers WAY worse than yours. Fathers who beat the shit out of their spouse and kids, completely bail on their families etc. Most people are not mentally and/or financially stable when they have kids, hence the vast majority of households being dysfunctional. There are people out there who would literally kill to be in your shoes.

Didn't read it all but sounds like my Dad. He is who he is. A lot of men from that generation are like that. Don't hold it against him or try to change him but your brother sounds like a better role model. Spend more time with him.

Ok, first off I hate this sub, but I feel I need to comment on this. It’s not really blue pill, but it’s more psychology.

You are 17; that’s life at 17. You just cannot relate to your parents. What kind of family did your dad come from? You need to think about that. My dad came from a really rough family, and I know he did the best he could.

Also life is really difficult as you get older. People die, there are financial problems, etc. etc. When you start getting older, you start really thinking about this stuff and thinking about how you want to live your life because there might not be more time. Scary but true. You will see it when you get older.

Are you the youngest? Is there some kind of resentment of you going on? Listen, I’m the youngest, and I was an accident. However, I’m very independent and my other siblings are not. The youngest is usually very independent. Use that to your advantage.