Freud probably didn’t walk his patients through the streets of Vienna and tell them to cold approach women. If he did, he would have been beheaded (he lived in the Victorian era which was a little stuffy about dating and sex.) He did, however, have a lot of powerful insights about human sexuality, and some of his teachings can actually be helpful to today’s aspiring Casanova.
The Id and The Superego
According to Freud, humans have three different “sub-personalities” that are in tension with each other: The id, the ego, and the superego. Understanding these different parts of the psyche can actually explain why game is so difficult or most guys, and why we can be our own worst enemy when it comes to attracting women.
See, the Id is the part of our psyche that holds sexual, instinctual, and aggressive urges. When you see an attractive woman, and a mental image flashes in your mind of you throwing her against a wall and ravishing her- that’s your Id talking.
When it comes to sex, the Id is the driving force, and I would argue that if you were “in tune” with this part of your psyche, success with women would be very natural, even easy.
For better or worse, the id is at war with what Freud called the superego, which is what you might call your moral conscience (you could say the Id is the devil on one shoulder, and the superego is the angel on the other).
The superego houses your sense of right and wrong, good and evil, etc. The superego is largely developed through societal conditioning: it’s something you learn more than something you’re born with. The values that your parents, schoolteachers, friends, religion, and the media teach you coalesce into your superego.
When it comes to sex, the superego tends to have more conservative views than the id. Throughout our upbringing, are taught that we shouldn’t offend people, that we shouldn’t risk making people feel bad, and that sex is something that needs a deep emotional connection between people to happen.
So, when you see that hot girl, one part of your mind is thinking, “Time to fuck” while another part of your mind is thinking, “It would be nice to make friends with her, go on several dates, and then perhaps kiss her on the cheek afterwards.” (Obviously, your superego’s values depend on how you were raised, but it’s always more conservative than the Id.)
The Id and the Superego want very different- even contradictory- things. This creates an inner tension when it comes to the idea of learning success with women. Part of you (the id) wants to learn game for very instinctual reasons- sex for its own sake.
Another part of you (the superego) probably thinks the idea of learning game is stupid, even immoral. The superego thinks things like:
“Game is for losers with no self-respect.” “Game is creepy, it’s so weird to just approach strangers like that.” “Game only works on sluts; high-quality women need a different approach.” “I’m not going to spend so much time chasing tail, I have more important things to do.”
To be clear, I’m not saying the superego is wrong, and the id is right, they both serve important functions. But, in many cases, the superego is a voice in our head that has nothing to do with our own beliefs or values, it’s just a relic of how we were taught to think growing up, and when such is the case, it’s important to recognize the superego for what it is: an obstacle to getting what you want.
The Ego
So, that’s the id and superego, what role does the ego play in all this? The ego is the mediator between the id and the superego (i.e. it’s the person between the angel and the devil). The ego analyzes and hems-and-haws between the desires of the id and the superego. The ego looks to make sense of the desires of the id, “Well, I’m not going out just to fuck women, I want to better myself as a person.”
Sometimes your ego will side with the id, and others it will side with the superego. This is problematic because neither are ever going to poof out of existence. You’re always going to have an instinctual side that has deep-rooted sexual desires, and you’re always going to have a sense of morality and right-and-wrong, and they’re probably never going to be in complete agreement about what will bring you happiness.
Basically, your superego is going to try to convince you not to do the very kinds of things that turn women on. Your superego doesn’t want to sweep a woman off her feet with a spontaneous kiss, it wants to have socially acceptable (boring) relationships.
Your id, on the other hand, doesn’t want to have a long-term relationship, it wants to feel good right now, ideally with a new woman. Your id just wants to fuck.
A lot of the resistance guys have to the idea of doing game is due to the superego, it’s the part of our psyche that thinks a lot of what game entails is immoral. Additionally, the superego thinks game is “creepy” and will lead others to disapprove of us.
Is there an easy answer? No, you can’t get a vasectomy for your id (unless, perhaps you literally got your balls chopped off), and you probably don’t want to forsake your sense of right-and-wrong, either.
But, when you pursue this journey you might want to consider the fact that different parts of your psyche want different things, being aware of this can help you reconcile those contradictory desires and make a more logical decision about how to deal with them.
Ultimately, I believe the most important quality you need to develop to get the success with women you want is self-awareness. The better you understand the different parts of your mind and what they want (and whether or not you should listen to them), the more you can make conscious decisions about how to shape your life instead of living according to the whim of opposing psychological forces at different times.
Hopefully this was some interesting food for thought ????
[deleted] 6y ago
This was very well put.
Frued's theories are fraught with assertions which are unfalsifiable. It never really helps to use Frued's work as an almanac on the human species BUT it certainly helps when it comes to rationalising our minds with our environments. Game is essentially evolution in play I would say. You don't really have a choice in the matter. If that "fact" (used loosely) upsets someone, then that's their superego imposing itself on the Id. That's not necessarily proof of anything in particular because it's just a circular logic, you've confirmed it according to set parameters (hence unfalsifiable) so it's a bit like 'intelligent design'. Food for thought anyhow.
Oxspit 6y ago
I know this comment will be sent to a shit-hole. But Freud's theory in modern psychology is useless....
Psychoanalists have moved to use Jung and such...
Not only this, but they theorize about topics but in pragmatical fields they tend to rely on Behavioral Sciences to deliver results because BScs are effective, short time-spans and stuff...
When you have a branching field where the branches contradict each other, you are seeing the Reformation of the Church but in a "science"; and that happens because psychoanalisis is based on a dogma, which makes it a pseudo-science.
It can work sometimes, but for the wrong reasons and never listen to their explanations and models. They are wrong.
I think a more proper approach to understanding the world is Behaviorism as given by Kantor, Skinner.
Anyways, that's my POV, you can AMA or downvote me its ok
[deleted] 6y ago
The thing you mentioned about when you see that hot girl. I was training back at the gym the other day, noticed this girl, a 7.6 maybe, nice tits for her size and a fat ass in joggers face was decent but nothing special overall, I got on with my workout, she kept looking over at me I ignored (super ego?). idk if it was because my Testosterone was increasing but I started imagining all the things I was gonna do to her, had to wait for my dick to go down before I approached and got the number.
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Throwawaysteve123456 6y ago
This is the best use of our time. A 200 year old theory with no basis in science or reality, based on what some Austrian dude "thought seemed right" at the time. TRP in 2017. Lets do fortune telling next.
ComplexIsomorphism 6y ago
I have a psycologist friend who told me freud is famous because he was the first to legitimise psycoanalysis but that all his ideas are laughably wrong. He said "you spend the first semester learning freud and the second unlearning him"
Aghayden 6y ago
By "In tune" I don't mean completely enveloped by, that would be describing a total psychopath. By in tune I mean in touch with. It's not black and white 0 or 100, but most guys are really out of touch with that side of their psyche.
MrFoxyFox 6y ago
Very informative post.
Do you know why diminishing the ego is a good/bad thing? After reading your post, I get the idea that ego is the guy who chooses the right or the wrong path. But what does the "size" of the ego have to do with what path we will choose. Thanks.
LiveAFTSOV 6y ago
Kinda cool post. Nice to be aware but dont see how that changes anything
Aghayden 6y ago
In general, self-awareness makes room for change. For example, if you hadn't heard of pickup, and you genuinely believed the idea of cold approaching a girl and sleeping with her was absurd, you wouldn't even try, it's not until you're aware that it's possible that you might take action.
When your aware off the things that hold you back, you can be proactive in overcoming those obstacles.
StarbornProject 6y ago
0 scientific validity
I'd say it's a worthless hypothesis tbh, can't extract anything useful from wrong data
TheProphetPhysiquiel 6y ago
Even if it's a worthless hypothesis, it's a useful model to help understand the cognitive dissonance you may be feeling about game.
Raw data comes in from all kinds of places, it's up to you to extract what you can from it.
Throwawaysteve123456 6y ago
And next week, we'll apply Gall's theory of phrenology to TRP. Followed by, a discussion of the best homeopathic medicines to improve your sex life. Finally, we'll wrap it up with a discussion on how avoiding vaccines will make you less autistic, thus improving your game.
anon2777 6y ago
i actually think i’ve seen 2/3 of those on here
codingbuffnerd 6y ago
prime example how to spot a leftist
Aghayden 6y ago
And afterwards, we'll discuss how to make pointless strawman arguments instead of doing anything remotely intelligent.
Throwawaysteve123456 6y ago
I didn't make an argument. Strawman is when you re-word their argument to simplify it/make it easy to defeat, and then provide your counterpoint.
You know Freud's theories mean nothing, right? I mean, they're entertaining to learn about, and good to learn to understand the historical significance of where therapy originated from, and how it related to subsequent scientific explorations. But his work itself: Total garbage, and shouldn't be repeated outside of a "oh hey, check out what this guy thinks" conversation.
Aghayden 6y ago
Now we're upgrading to ad hominem, nice. Just because someone was wrong about some things doesn't mean they're wrong about everything. Freud was wrong about a lot of things, so what?
You seem to be looking at this in a very black and white kind of way, maybe Freud's concepts of the Ego, Id, and Superego aren't 100% true or accurate, but there is some element of truth in them, ideas- especially in the realm of psychology- aren't always wrong or right, they can have some merit without being perfectly correct.
Thinking about ideas like the unconscious, cognitive dissonance, etc. can lead you to ask questions about the way the mind works, and those questions can lead towards insight.
It's not always about finding the absolute truth, sometimes it's about exploring different perspective and ideas to question your assumptions- that's where growth happens, when you realize that you might be wrong about something.
Throwawaysteve123456 6y ago
The above comment I made had no ad hominen attacks. If I said, Freud's a fucking idiot, therefore his theories are wrong, that would be ad hominem. I'm attacking his character, not the argument itself. Above, I said that Freud's theories were total garbage, which was an unsubstantiated premise.
I agree with you though. We shouldn't totally disregard his work. But his importance is how he influenced legit theorists, not the work he did himself. The concepts he discussed have 150 years of rigorous data since then, and elements were accurate but for the most part it was not. His big contribution was that unconscious forces have a significant impact on behavior, and that his been 100% established.
You talk about cognitive dissonance as if it's parallel to psychodynamics, but CD is an established evidence driven area with thousands of studies to support it. It also integrates well with other major theories in psychology, and is largely accepted in contemporary psych. CD is a great example of the modern application of accurate theories that were somewhat related to Freud. Learn CD, but don't learn Freud (unless it's for school).
On your last point, I completely agree, challenging perspectives is the key, I just don't think outdated theories applied to this context is helpful. There's so much better stuff out there, and it leads to confusion and misinterpretation about psychology actually teaches. Either way, it is so interesting to learn about.
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Throwawaysteve123456 6y ago
You're all fucking unbelievably stupid. It boggles my mind. Psychodynamics is pseudoscience. Anyone with a Psych background knows this. All the examples I gave, were additional examples of pseudoscience, not psychology, you uneducated fuck. This forum is being taken over by people with a grade 10 education.
leviathan51 6y ago
Why are you arguing with him. Does it help your frame?
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Throwawaysteve123456 6y ago
What is so bad about Biology and phrenology? You don't get it do you? All these references, just zoom by over head? Psychology- a valid discipline. Pschodynamics- not a valid discipline. Psychology- includes a large breadth of subtopics. Psychodynamics- one of the topics learned about early in Psych, for HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE, and how it subsequently led to later valid theories. Okay. So Freud = Psychodynamics. Does that make sense to you? Or was this too many big words? Phrenology, was the study of personality based on the shape of someones head. Just like Freud, he just "guessed" what was right, and that was the theory. Hence, not scientific.
You stupid mother fucker.
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Throwawaysteve123456 6y ago
When did I mention meta physics? WTF dude, you're delusional, or just highly unintelligent. Go read up. You brought up meta physics, then shot it down, when i didn't even mention it. That's not even strawman, that's delusion.
You're the guy who, in 2017, advocates FREUDIAN interpretations. I mean, honestly, where the fuck did you get educated from? What online blog did you build your expansive knowledge base? Get out of your mom's basement man, no one's buying it.
The content on this forum gets worse by the day.
Now, you conflate meta physics with quantum physics. This is comparable to conflating astronomy to astrology. Meta physics is philosophy you fucknut. Quantum physics is physics. Meta physics and wave particle duality have nothing in common. Stop talking about physics dude, you're so out of your league. My buddy did his PhD in physics, and his friend specialized in quantum, and he said he knows "absolutely nothing" on the topic; i'm sure you're an expert though with the youtube videos you watched.
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leviathan51 6y ago
Can you source how many women did Freud fuck, bare his wife and daughter? It's like when someone posts how Nietzsche relates to TRP, and doesn't account for the fact that Nietzsche's n=1 and he catched a syphilis from that one. Is Freud more legit?