I'm relatively new to TRP (plus I'm a woman, so I feel a bit out of place in TRP-proper), but it seems to me that the essence of RedPill philosophy is a return to the essentials of gender--in other words, a reality where men are men and women are women. For all the badmouthing its gets, the 1950s/postwar era culture had this nailed. In fact, I would describe that era as the last decade before feminism threw gender relations out of whack.
That said, I ran across this image awhile ago, and I think that every point on the list is spot-on. As much as feminists dislike it, the fact remains that both men and women are happiest when they act in accordance with their natures.
gretka 10y ago
Maybe I don't understand Red Pill completely, but I don't think this is it. TRP is basically this: be hones with yourself, find out who you are and what you want, based on that evaluate what kind of partner would be interested in you, and then present yourself to the world and opposite sex as honestly and completely as you can. If you think your dream partner would not be interested in someone like you, do your best to improve yourself, but be aware that it might take years.
There is also a lot of advice on TRP that says you have to fake it so that you appear attractive to your dream partner, but I don't like that advice, except in the context of "fake it till you make it".
[deleted] 10y ago
ok i see, every woman's comment that actually reflects this subs basic ideas is going to be scored down while ridiculous, boilerplate, egalitarian, feminist malarkey from a 28 yr old girl who's been "living with a guy for almost a year" is going to be scored up. the feminine mystique lol unsubscribe
SoftHarem 10y ago
Unfortunately Reddit is infested with the cancer known as feminism and this is going to be an uphill battle from day one. Don't let the votes discourage you. The trolls will lose interest soon.
redpillschool 10y ago
Just ignore the votes and enjoy the conversation. We'll keep it clean.
margerym 10y ago
The votes aren't getting to me as much as the passive aggressive less than covert "you all are obviously not using your heads and are afraid to read a book" all while attempting to inform us what TRP really is.
[deleted] 10y ago
ok, im new to reddit and dont know how it works, ill stick it out--i dont expect it to be an agree-a-thon, i want to discuss things with other views, but if its just going to become another forum for conventional wisdom feminism it really serves no purpose
redpillschool 10y ago
For the most part, we intend on removing trolls like that. I decided to keep that one because it looks like you all took care of it. Don't expect much more of that sort here in the future, we saw it play out once, no need for it again! ;)
[deleted] 10y ago
Don't pay attention to votes. It's trolling.
"Women can do anything they want! As long as it's not a traditional gender role."
Edited for spelling, derp. >:(
SoftHarem 10y ago
The feminists are all about accepting their gender rolls, trust me.
[deleted] 10y ago
DAMMIT, it's not the first time I've done that.
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[deleted] 10y ago
how do i downvote things? i dont have the option, only an up arrow
[deleted] 10y ago
It's turned off for the web version. I think maybe it's still possible in an app, since it's still happening.
[deleted] 10y ago
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CFRProflcopter 10y ago
I have an honest question for you and I'd really like to get a good answer. I'm not looking to troll, just to have an open discussion and as a male, improve my knowledge of the issue. What is the nature of men and women (from the OP)? It was my understanding that this subject is hotly debated among scientists in the relevant fields. The physical differences between the genders are obvious and uncontested, but emotional and mental differences are comparatively subtle and not very well understood.
Secondly, I have reservations about the "natural order" argument in general, as it has been used to justify slavery, Nazism, genocide, segregation, and homophobia. It often falls on the opposite side of our ever improving scientific understanding, and is almost always anti-progressive. What evidence has resulted in your views on gender?
ladyuniscorn 10y ago
If you want to be a submissive house wife, yes this will work. But the problem is not all men and women want these roles. The Feminine Mystique showed the cracks in this thinking, women were not happy living through their husbands and children.
I think that instead of playing into specific roles, women and men should work to be better partners. Nothing is worse than being completely bored and unattracted to your long term partner, either male of female.
margerym 10y ago
So what you are saying is "If you want this, fine, but no woman can be happy like this." to which I call BS.
I don't dispute that not all women want to be submissive/Red Pill/whatever and, frankly, I don't care. But it will always speak volumes to me that feminists refuse to live and let live. We're making our own choices here and aren't infringing on yours. If that is so threatening to you that you have to comment here and post elsewhere mocking people not going your way it's time to step back and evaluate your own lives. (to clarify I am speaking generally here)
I think what is so threatening about this is that feminists built a large part of the movement on the lie that all women were miserable like this. Now that more and more women are finding happiness and strength not in the feminist ideal but in the choice to follow traditional roles they are completely losing their shit because they know they don't have a leg to stand on with such generalized remarks as "women were not happy living through their husbands and children". So they seek us out and try and tear us down. You can always tell a weak argument and a weak movement when it is based on taking down someone or something else vs standing on its own merit.
ladyuniscorn 10y ago
Some women are very happy in submissive relationships, I am not discounting that. I am saying that not everyone would be happy confined to those roles and that these roles should not be glorified. I am not at all threatened by women choosing to be wives and have children or even be a housewife, but not everyone is happy doing that.
I think the argument that women or even men have to fit into an ideal to be happy is fundamentally flawed. Does being perfectly made up and having dinner on the table really automatically make a woman happy long term? Does a man being a provider automatically make him happy? These things seem very shallow to me, like there should be something deeper going on.
What I believe would be truly red pill would be to think critically and evaluate what really makes each person happy and leads them to a more fulfilling life. If being a housewife if what you have always dreamed of, fine, so long as your husband is cool with that as well. But personally I would rather have women and men develop as people, complex and interesting people that think for themselves rather than just conform for the sake of conformity.
margerym 10y ago
Thankfully I haven't seen the examples you are giving of lack of complexity or deep thought be touted here or anywhere as ideal.
When stuff like this comes up we should be able to decide for ourselves whether or not it is helpful in our own lives not be told ad nauseam that it's not for everyone. That's a given. This isn't a place to hold everyone's hand and make them feel validated it's a place to discuss this specific way of living.
redpillschool 10y ago
Does the idea of improving yourself to be attractive to a man upset you?
ladyuniscorn 10y ago
Not at all. I think people, both men and women, should improve themselves throughout life to be attractive to others in a variety of relationships both personal and professional.
Nothing is worse than being static in life and a complete bore.
[deleted] 10y ago
its not so much submissive as anti-egalitarian. it is anti feminist and generally traditional.
one of the most common metaphors for a "red pill" relationship is "officer and first mate". this is hierarchical rather than dominant and submissive. it recognizes that most conflicts in relationships are actually fights for dominance, and since we tend to believe that women PREFER men who are more dominant than them on some level, the solution to conflict is for the non dominant party to CEASE trying to wrest the steering wheel from the dominant party's hands
while it is certainly possible for the woman to be the officer and the man to be the first mate, in the way of thinking this board is based on its believed that this is unsatisfactory to the vast majority of both men and women. we tend not to believe that humans are each unique little snowflakes, but that we all have some very basic sexual hardwiring with some shading towards either ends of the bell curve.
you don't appear to really know what red pill is meant in the context of this forum. it is an evolutionary biology based worldview regarding the nature of human attraction, its anti-feminist, and anti-egalitarian, and seeks to incorporate and probably even to cater to the male point of view in relationships from its own perspective -- not from what women believe the male point of view should be or what they tell each other it is without male input.
here is an article with a good start, since most of the women here i believe have some association with "mmsl" and the primer and the forum there, if you care to read it
http://marriedmansexlife.com/take-the-red-pill/
ladyuniscorn 10y ago
I see absolutely no reason for there to be a power struggle in a relationship, there is something called communication. Part of being a good partner is listening to your partner, their wants and needs - there is give and take in every relationship and what that balance is will be different for different couples. I think that by buying into these very ridged notions and sweeping generalizations that we set ourselves up for failure and inevitable walls.
There is a wall around 30 for most women, related to getting married and having kids which is mentioned frequently on red pill. But I also see a second wall, one in middle age when the kids are grown and a woman feels like she has lost herself as in individual. The second wall is what I was referring to when I mentioned the Feminine Mystique.
I am merely saying that men and women should examine what will really make them happy long term, 5, 10, 50 years from now. There is not a single answer to what will make an individual happy long term, which is very important if you want to have a lasting relationship - you need to be happy on your own and love yourself before you can be happy with someone or be loved by another. Life is not one size fits all, you need to adjust and personalize it.
[your link is non-existent]
[deleted] 10y ago
link fixed.
the presumption that verbal communication trumps body language and sexual/dominance signalling is ideological and not in my opinion a true description of human sexual interaction, in fact, one of the key insights in this worldview is that very often women use statements that are the opposite of what they want to "shit test" men for dominance and masculinity, such as the cliche "do i look fat in this?". beta males presume females are seeking tender reassurances that they dont look fat and jump to provide them, which generally disappoints and disgusts the woman who really just wanted to see iff the man would jump to her tune.
you have to remember, almost every woman here was raised in a hyper feminist, hyper individualistic, talk therapy culture and came to this "red pill" view because it existed in contradistinction to everything they had been told their whole lives, which are the things you are promoting.
regarding "the feminine mystique", betty friedan was a hack communist apparatchik with absolutely no conception of how anyone felt in the 50s-60s, only a rigid ideological conception of how women SHOULD feel for the purpose of destroying the male-led nuclear family. high dominance high IQ communist jewish women (i am a jewish woman btw, in case you think im coming from an anti semitic angle)felt stifled by the common culture WASP traditional family and sought to make every woman into a career woman and intellectual because thats what they wanted to be. the mass of women in the west never wanted it
margerym 10y ago
In case anyone doubts the "verbal communication is not ideal" belief it's not just Red Pillers and the like touting it. Check out the book 'How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It'. It supports verbal communication being an obstacle in relationships.
margerym 10y ago
You're right, that second wall is a real thing. With regards to kids, at least. But Red Pill and even standard "Fascinating Womanhood" type wifely submission does account for that second wall. I'm wondering how much you have read about either philosophy.
You seem to be assuming that no one is thinking ahead, that no one is thinking deeply about things much at all. You seem to think this is all about sitting around all day and twiddling our perfectly manicured thumbs until our husbands come home to validate us. You do realize that it is stated that women need to have something outside of the home they are passionate about, right?
ladyuniscorn 10y ago
I think we can agree on one point alone, that women (and men for that matter) need to have things they are passionate about.
I have not made any assumptions other than people need to figure out what makes life fulfilling for them and that a one size fits all approach is flawed. You are simply assuming that I am assuming, but I assure you I am not.
[deleted] 10y ago
You also assumed that playing a role necessarily results in boredom and lessened attraction, as if the way a given role is expressed by an individual cannot exhibit growth and new perspective over the years.
ladyuniscorn 10y ago
What is important, the role itself or developing as a person? Should one be the focus and the other totally neglected? Can these things go hand in hand or are they mutually exclusive?
[deleted] 10y ago
Everyone adopts roles in developing as a person. They pick a place to start (I want to be a doctor, teacher, wife, mother, golfer, etc.) and then stick to the most common conceptions of said roles or stretch the boundaries far indeed.
You are not objecting to roles as you think you are. You simply believe that a wife or husband's role should be as a full partner where everything is negotiated. The women is this thread are interested in talking about a different kind of role for wives, which you believe inevitably results in boredom, lessened attraction, and restricted opportunities for full growth. That kills the discussion before it starts.
margerym 10y ago
If you aren't making that assumption why bring it up at all here? Why not allow the conversation to continue on topic?
ladyuniscorn 10y ago
Why must everyone on a given sub be of the same opinion? Wouldn't life be rather boring if everyone subscribed to exactly the same philosophy and there was no variation or room for discussion? Would there even be a discussion?
It would most likely devolve into: "I like purple, yay!" "Purple, rocks!" "OMG, I love my purple heels" [Purple is a stand in for a circle jerk topic]
margerym 10y ago
If you think staying true to the topic of the overall sub is circle jerking then I really don't know what to tell you. There is, of course, room for open discussion but there is a pretty big difference between a discussion within the context of the overall group and just trolling to show people the error of their ways.
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Boss_Monkey 10y ago
relevent. Please read this if you are interested in the subject at hand. Notice, the fraud was done by feminists as a strawman. Money quote from the feminist summary of the feminist fraud:
From this, it is given that feminists openly deny the pleasures of feminine submission. The frame that they will give is one of choice, while they shame the choices they see as "unfit". (They do that with "quotes" when they type)
[deleted] 10y ago
Too true. I wrote a post on this a long time ago, and even after I found out that it was a fraud, I still stick by what I wrote. It's transformed the way I treat him when he gets home, and the way I present myself at home when he's around. I actually feel slightly uncomfortable if I'm in pajama pants around him now.
http://redpillwifery.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/the-good-wifes-guide/
Boss_Monkey 10y ago
I remember that post. I commented as dorsey47.
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[deleted] 10y ago
What do you mean by outcome independence?
md619 10y ago
Granted, I've never been married, but I don't see why this would necessarily be true. Part of the red pill means realizing that men and women really are not looking for the same things in relationships. Men don't necessarily care if his woman is "exciting" or "passionate" about a career. Those are things women care about in men. Don't get it confused.
As far as "caring and pampering" I just can't see this being an issue either. Those are very feminine qualities and I would say most men appreciate them.
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[deleted] 10y ago
You make the mistake in assuming that earning that caring and pampering from a quality woman is easy. It is anything but.
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[deleted] 10y ago
thats kind of a weird statement to make regarding this post if you understand at all what "red pill wisdom" regarding the sexes is. everything in that list is what traditionally feminine women are advised to do.
redpill_alt 10y ago
huh? Why is that?
un-coolmom 10y ago
This person does not understand traditional gender roles, this is great advice for newly marrieds.
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redpill_alt 10y ago
I don't mean to tell others how to act. I was just sharing what I thought to be good advice; people are free to take it or leave it as they see fit.
redpillschool 10y ago
Are you suggesting that an advice board should be void of advice?
TempestTcup 10y ago
Oops, I didn't see your comment. They were rude in another thread, too.
redpillschool 10y ago
That's ok, better off deleted.
There's a strange trend in our culture that basically boils down to this: Sensitivity is most important point in any discussion.
Things like "everybody's different" and "why don't you just do what makes you happy?" are completely nonsense, disregarding the notions that trends can be found and noticed, similarities and differences can be explored, and that thinking about a strategy for happiness can lead to happiness.
Left to the postmodernists, nothing can ever be known, everybody is entirely unique so discussion is meaningless, and criticism is insulting therefore even asking for advice is inviting people to oppress you.
TempestTcup 10y ago
Thinking is hard; why can't you just love me for me?