I’m a little baffled by the controversy surrounding this subreddit. Am I mistaken in thinking that being a Red Pill woman means you believe there is a difference between the sexes and you are agreeing to traditional gender roles? Am I missing some critical element that would make me sick if I was aware of it?
I guess I should clarify that remark by saying that I don’t care what Red Pill men are saying about dating on their subreddit. I assume uncensored thoughts of men about dating would be crass. If you expect otherwise then your mother did you a disservice when preparing you for womanhood.
[deleted] 10y ago
You go gurl.
FleetingWish 10y ago
They don't understand that "traditional gender roles" doesn't mean "barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen". They don't understand that "submissive" isn't the same as "doormat". They don't understand that "the man is in charge" isn't the same as "the women doesn't have a voice". They don't understand any intrinsic value in making a man happy. Their attitude is always "what do I get out of it" or "Why should I be the one to make him happy, why doesn't he have to be the one to make me happy?". They don't understand that in order to "get" you have to "give".
Honestly, I feel sorry for them, I feel sorry for the men in their lives. They can't get rid of their desire to be in control for one second to realize it doesn't make them happy.
PrettyPurpleThorns 10y ago
If that is the life style you want, then that's cool and best of luck with it and finding someone to share it with you.
That said, I am confused by anything that says that because I am a woman I should be submissive or that I should have/need a man to be in charge of me. I love my boyfriend and I love doing things to make him happy. I also love it when he does stuff to make me happy. That kind of give and take is kind of something I view as necessary in a relationship. We make each other happy, that's why we're together. I don't get what that has to do with who is "in charge."
I agree that obsessive need to be in control makes no one happy, but that goes for men as much as women.
[deleted] 10y ago
I agree with this so much. If it is a healthy relationship, both parties will WANT to do stuff to make the other happy. No need to manipulate to get it to happen.
redpillschool 10y ago
I think you really misread this. It isn't "you should be" it's "give it a try." Do whatever you want. Just know that if you're not attractive to a mate, you won't get a mate. It's a common theme among men: Not attracting a mate? You have to work on yourself.
Whereas female oriented advice usually revolves around "if he's not into how you are, then there's something wrong with him."
PrettyPurpleThorns 10y ago
I would argue that in many cases "if he's not that into how you are (or you're not into how he is) then you probably aren't right for each other." For example, if a guy is looking for a woman to be in charge of, he probably wouldn't be into me, but I wouldn't be into him either so that's fine. We'd both be happier with someone who's wants line up better with our own. I mean, everyone has things in themselves that they could work on improving, but I think you should change because you feel like you want to be better/different, not just to attract someone else. Though I guess if you're constantly alienating everyone around you? Probably something you could work on.
un-coolmom 10y ago
Men need places to get to get together and be men. If a woman wants to hang out in a boys club, and then decides to be offended... that's her damn problem.
FleetingWish 10y ago
I always find it funny that if men want to exclude women, they are being "oppressive", but if women want to exclude men, they are creating a "safe space". They are creating a double standard, and at the same time characterizing men as "unsafe". They totally ignore the blatant misandry.
myusernameranoutofsp 10y ago
I don't know, if trans people wanted to create a space where only trans people could talk about their issues, issues that regular society seems to ignore or perpetuate, then I think they should be allowed to do that. Women probably aren't as oppressed as trans* folk, but I tend to get a lot of freedom that women don't get, and I can see how that's wrong.
If I had a personal/sensitive issue that only other guys would understand, that I wouldn't feel comfortable talking to women about, then I don't think society would reject to me creating a safe space for men to talk about that issue. There just aren't that many issues like that.
FleetingWish 10y ago
I wasn't really talking about spaces where people get together and talk about their "feelings". I was talking about any men excluded groups. PTAs, book clubs, women only gyms, etc.
Why is there no such thing as men only gyms? Because excluding women is "oppressive".
Why are women only gyms ok? Because women need a "safe space" where they are protected against getting oggled.
Do you really buy this line of feminist bullshit? What "freedoms" do you get that women don't get?
myusernameranoutofsp 10y ago
Yeah, it helps some women to have a safe space where they are protected against getting ogled. Men don't seem to get ogled much. Men don't get hit on by strangers when they're trying to mind their own business, especially not in threatening ways. Men don't have to worry about being followed and maybe raped. I don't know, I'm not a woman, but I can see how there are some social dynamics that might lead to safe spaces being a good idea.
I can go to a public area wearing just about whatever I want (as long as I have underwear on) and people won't really make assumptions about me. They won't say it's for attention, or that I'm a slut, or any of that, it would just be funny. When I'm with a girl and we go a restaurant, the server might tend to address me instead of her, as if I represent the group. If there's a job opening, I feel like I'm given more priority over a similarly qualified girl. If I have a kid, I'd be given more leniency with respect to my responsibilities compared to the mother. When I get married, we'd probably take my surname because that's just how things go. There's a bunch of stuff about how I don't have to worry much about getting raped, so I'm free to travel around sketchy areas at night without as much concern.
aidrocsid 10y ago
Sure they will. Go out in public wearing a skirt or makeup. You may get killed. It's certainly true that things are different for men and women in our society, and that those differences often favor men, but it's not entirely one-sided. I mean, I basically agree with what you said, but it's important not to brush the inadequacy of male gender roles under the rug.
FleetingWish 10y ago
Men have just as much right as women to want their own space. Even if it is for different reasons.
Not sure why this is important in anybody’s life, but yes, if you wore underwear in an inappropriate public place, people would make fun of you behind your back for being an idiot. Pretty much the same reaction women would get.
Might? Really? So, if servers were to address women first 100% of the time, you would consider that equality? Because she might address you first on occasion, that's an injustice to women everywhere?
There are many reasons a server might address you first.
Probability states she/he is going to address you first 50% of the time.
The server is attracted to you. If the majority of servers are female, she probably will address you first due to attraction.
Maybe this was true 20 years ago, but it's definitely no longer true today. There are things in place now to ensure that a less qualified woman gets chosen over a more qualified man, on virtue of having a vagina. So the world is fair again right? Honestly, this argument is made by people who don't understand the economy. Men don't control companies (in so many words), the economy does, money does. In other words men make their decisions not based on biases; the companies that do the best and will succeed are the companies that make decisions in the company's financial best interests. So why do men hire women now? Not because they are necessarily better, but because they are afraid of financial disincentives. Getting sued, or being boycotted by feminists.
Not sure what this means, probably too vague to have any meaning.
Honestly, marriage in general is such a bad deal for men and such a good deal for women, that at the very least the women could make a concession about the name thing. I mean what else do men have to gain from marriage? At best you can argue that men gain the security that women get (happy home, loving family etc), while having financial disincentives that women don't have. At worst you can't even argue that. With all the ways that marriages rape men, more and more men are opting out of marriage, and feminists aren't satisfied with that. It's not enough. They want to take the one last thing that men want out of a marriage. It's disgusting.
Women worry about being rapped more. That's true. But not because rape is more likely for women. Men have a good chance of being raped themselves.
So, why do women worry about it more? Well, because we're the naturally weaker sex. So if we were over-powered by a man, we would have no way of protecting ourselves. But really we have less reason to worry, because we're more likely to be protected by society. We're more likely to have men, men's laws, men police officers, protect us.
Actually, the fact that we need to feel protected is one of our attraction mechanisms. It's one of the things that draw us to the opposite sex. Put us in a safe society, were we are unlikely to be harmed, and you end up with a lot of women asking "what they need men for". In a very real way we can't feel attracted to you, if we can't feel protected by you. But, if in spite of all societies’ power to keep us safe, if we still manage to feel scared, then we can still want a man to love us and protect us. In a way we almost need to be scared.
myusernameranoutofsp 10y ago
You're missing the point, people wouldn't do that. There is a clear difference in how people would react to a guy walking around in his underwear and how they would react to a girl walking around in her underwear. There would be different reactions by different people, but for the most part people would be dismissive of the guy (it's funny, he can do what he wants, ...) and critical of the girl (she's doing it for attention, she's a slut, ...).
'Might' is one of the least important words in the paragraph, why are you criticizing my wording rather than what I said? I had it at 'tends to' before but changed it, it's just wording. For the most part, I'm assumed to be the authority figure, not the woman, that's the social dynamic and it's wrong.
What? That's not what's going on, it's pretty hard to conclude that something like that is done because of attraction.
Here's where we actually disagree. Men aren't naturally in charge, women aren't naturally submissive. It's a huge claim to make and there's no real evidence for it other than your anecdotal evidence and armchair philosophizing. If we went back in time a few decades, all the same arguments could be used to say that Whites are naturally in charge and Blacks are naturally submissive.
The leniency part is about how the mother is usually expected to take care of changing diapers and doing a lot of the uncomfortable work. That's changing though, but a lot of it is still there. For example the mother is expected to take time off instead of the father, so she gets set back in her goals and career.
Pretty much from "Honestly, marriage in general is such a bad deal for men" onward, you're using a bunch of assumptions that are just wrong. If you have any real academic literature that says that men are naturally more dominant and women are naturally more submissive, then please share, but I don't think that idea is taken seriously nowadays.
FleetingWish 10y ago
Ah, so it's hard to conclude attraction, so therefore it must be prejudice. That's much easier to conclude. Is that really your default state? If it's too hard to prove anything else, it must be prejudice? You are doing backflips to support your claim that it "must be prejudice". Never mind that most women are interested in most men, and want to talk to them to find out if they can continue being attracted to them. No, it must be prejudice.
Out of curiosity, how many blacks do you think thought that whites were dominent? (Though in this case I think the word superior is a better word, rather than dominent.)
myusernameranoutofsp 10y ago
I was saying that attraction is a weak explanation. If a server was flirting with me then maybe, but that's not what I was talking about. I was saying that servers in general (male and female) tend to treat me as the authority figure. We shouldn't really be arguing over this since it's a really minor point. You brought up that it might be because of attraction, but I think the great majority of the times it isn't.
I don't know, a few? If they were taught that in school, maybe a bunch believed it, I don't know though, we can probably go look that up somewhere.
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sugarcrush 10y ago
I have lurked theredpill for awhile now after seeing it mentioned elsewhere. I read most of their side bar material, went through top posts, etc. so hopefully you can agree I did my research! I like the traditional relationship setup that red pill advocates and think it is a good relationship philosophy for most couples. However, some of the stuff, even some of the greatly up voted and required reading, is super offensive to women. And in my experience flat out wrong. #1 for me being either "women are emotional teenagers who stop maturing at 18" or "women can never love men like men want to be loved". Now, if this is offensive to someone who generally agrees with red pill philosophy imagine how people completely against it must feel! Add in some more sweeping generalizations (not saying right or wrong but people don't like them) and a dash of men's rights, and we got the ingredients for some Internet drama, baby!
For reference I greatly tend towards the married men sex life version of the red pill that isn't so openly hostile to women (obviously) so that's just my opinion.
[deleted] 10y ago
i don't understand why there has to be drama, i don't go to feminist sites to argue with or concern troll them, derail their convos or try to coerce them into thinking maybe what they think they believe should be more like what i believe... i completely ignore them.
being offended is a way of trying to control others, your offended feelings aren't anyone's business but your own.
here is something i wrote about generalizations and women years ago, enjoy:
http://minarchyblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/on-not-seeing-the-trees-for-the-forest-oryes-yes-its-a-generalization-i-know-now-go-make-me-a-sandwich/
warning, offensive to women
pleasebequietdonny 10y ago
OMFG I LOVE YOU
please please please keep writing, you are brilliant and hilarious
AlwaysLateToThreads 10y ago
This is really well written.
source-Black man who is an outlier.
redpillschool 10y ago
I'm subscribed.
[deleted] 10y ago
i have been singularly uninspired to write in recent years, maybe this will perk me up a bit
margerym 10y ago
These two seem like common sense to me. Especially the latter. The first is only viewed as offensive because so many people these days do not understand maturity and equate being a teenager with being a child or infant. I do understand how it can be seen as offensive, certainly, but that doesn't change the reality of it. I think Ricky Gervais said something like "Just because you are offended doesn't mean it's not true."
But more to the point so someone is offended. Why not just not be a part of it? Why the need to stick around and cause problems for everyone? If it's just a matter of offensive move on.
sugarcrush 10y ago
I'm not personally offended, I just see how it could be and don't agree with those points. But I definitely agree on not sticking around just to cause drama over hurt feels, have a constructive conversation or leave!
margerym 10y ago
My comment was general. I didn't mean to suggest you were at fault here :)
margerym 10y ago
Having been on the other side I honestly think this is a moral crusade for them. The lie has been told over and over that women who are any degree of submissive to men or any for of male leadership/man on top type of dynamic so so damaging and ipso facto abusive that it all must end. I honestly think these men and women feel what we do is dangerous and that they are trying to save us. The classic "I know what's best for you" mentality.
But it doesn't just end there. If it turns out that women can in fact be happy and fulfilled like this and that men aren't actually the tyrants we paint them to be when they are being men then a large basis of feminism crumbles. They have to believe that we need to be saved or their ideologies make no sense. If we are right, even just for us; if women like us exist, then they in a very real way can't.
In short they hate us because we prove them wrong.
Amissmiss 10y ago
I don't feel like I'm submissive to men. I had my choice of mates; it wasn't chosen for me. My opinion matters in my relationship, and my husband loves and honors me daily…. but as a worthy wife and not a little princess.
We have a cooperative relationship that plays to our strengths, which largely follows traditional gender norms. He is more assertive and thicker skinned. He is the spokesman for our family and our provider. I am more caring. I nurture our family, and I make sure everyone has what they need to have a successful day.
I'm happy being a woman. I don't want to be like a man. I'm not subjugated. My strengths are acknowledged, appreciated, and utilized.
margerym 10y ago
Fair enough, Amissmiss, but you'll find that 'submissive to men' is a big umbrella that a lot of folks like to put us under.
[deleted] 10y ago
women who reject feminism have always been reviled and accused of "false consciousness". and any women above lower iddle class who rejects feminism is a class traitor
margerym 10y ago
Ah yes. Again, this is a moral crusade. It's funny how the left and feminist like to point the finger at the right and the religious when it comes to being illogically for one's own narrow morality but both the left and feminism are just as guilty. And in a moral crusade "us vs them" becomes a hard line and "traitor" becomes grounds for annihilation.
Honestly, the level of crazy- how far they are willing to go to be right- is quite unsettling. Even scary.
redpillschool 10y ago
Margery, I just wanted to chime in and say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading your rebuttals. I apologize we didn't catch the troll earlier, but this was very educational.
TempestTcup 10y ago
I second that - I'm just catching up on this & you are doing an excellent job. Trolls suck, but sometimes they start a really good conversation. Especially when you can filter all of their hate & keep the great rebuttals, lol!
margerym 10y ago
Glad I managed to be coherent! I do enjoy a good conversation that gets the mental works moving.
Amissmiss 10y ago
I can't help but feel as though women who reject the finer qualities of being a woman are the real traitors to our gender. I don't have to be more man-like to give myself value. The value you hold is based solely on the notion you have about yourself.
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margerym 10y ago
She didn't call these women traitors though, did she?
So basically you are saying "it's okay for you to choose to be an ignorant and abused lemming." How giving of you. But as long as you dehumanize us and convince yourselves we are uneducated and abused you will pride yourselves in your crusade to liberate us which means we will be subjected to not only your online bullying but your concern trolling right into our "real lives" via forced legislation and "concerned citizen" phone calls to the authorities. I've witnessed this happen. It's what your Savior mentality breeds. So please spare us the "I don't care what you do" BS. If you didn't really care you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't insist on playing us up as poor battered blow up dolls in an attempt to ease your conscience as you take up arms.
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margerym 10y ago
Let me stop you right there. This sub is for women, there are no tips for men here. I think you may have found yourself in the wrong place.
Why the focus on the traditional family and Christianity? I'm not sure you are grasping the varied people TRP brings in.
If you truly don't care how our homes/families are set up why are you here? If this isn't a crusade for you why do you care so much?
I hate to break it to you but the women here are here because they agree with TRP (with the exception of some trolls). I know it's hard to accept that women actually agree with such a philosophy but I wouldn't hold your breath that we're going to start leaving once we realize what this is really about. Again, there is no need to dehumanize us and insist we're just ignorant and that's why we're here. At some point you all are going to have to accept that thinking women have sided with this on our very own.
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margerym 10y ago
I like how you framed that question so that any answer will support your own feelings on it. You do realize that TRP is far more complex than that, yes? Somehow I don't think you have bothered to look past what you have decided offends you.
To answer your question, though, based on the tactic you are inflating to support your claim- I feel my husband should act in accordance with what he deems appropriate in handling the situation when I drop my end of the bargain.
And this is equal to Christianity and a traditional home to you? I'm not sure you understood my meaning. I was merely pointing out that TRP is not solely for Christian traditionalists.
I can see how this is going to go around and around. We get it, you're here to save us. No thanks is my own response. You may have better luck with the other women but somehow I doubt that.
Amissmiss 10y ago
I think the parent sub is about men supporting other men who have just realized that a lot of women are manipulative and not worth their extended time. Some of them are angry. Some of them talk about strategies to beat them at their own game. They are angry at women that act as though they are entitled organically to something more than men.
TRP men who are in LTR appreciate level-headed women that embrace their femininity and don't act entitled. We support and stay true to our partner, and they want to make us happy. They adore our affection and companionship.
Now who is showing their face! I can see how much you respect our traditional values by the way you assumed what they were and belittled them. I'm 32. i married at 30, and my husband is a year and a half older than me. I graduated college. i had a career as a manager for a major .com company before I decided to stay home and raise my child. Oh, and i'm agnostic. Our viewpoint on relationships can be seen in sociological terms.
I don't think most RP men think they should have an affair if their wife is lacking. I think most would advocate getting a divorce and moving on. You seem to misunderstand a basic point. I don't NEED my husband. I WANT him.
[deleted] 10y ago
I am pulling the overwhelming sentiment AND the official TRP position links when describing the ideal family. Have you read them? Maybe that is why you don't understand what the "big deal" is about this sub. You sound like you have a lovely life, not unlike many of my friends.
Again, you have missed the overwhelming bile expressed by TRP members. The example I provided is, once again, from the official sidebar material of TRP, and there are multiple threads supporting it, and other ways to cause you "dread". TRPs do not care, or believe that you want your husband. Again, the sr explicitly states that women can't love. Therefore, the only thing they can conceive of IS need.
Amissmiss 10y ago
Thank you for your perspective, Ms. OMGCanIBlowYou. Let me address the issue you've raised.
First, am I being hypocritical? I don't think so. You made a leap in logic. I am not concerned with what a feminist does in her own head-space. I still assert that the value she has is dependent on what she thinks about herself. What I have a problem with is the feminist perspective that there is something going on with MY thinking that she needs to be involved with. Case in point, I'm not lurking in a feminist subreddit. Why are you here?
Where on Red Pill Women are we dehumanizing women? I think I've celebrated women in my comments. I haven't read any endorsements of abuse amongst our group. What pseudo-science are you referring to?
[deleted] 10y ago
Perhaps I misunderstood. So it's okay for me to want to take on "masculine traits" in my head-space. Fabulous. When does it become traitorous to my gender? Is this like being gay, as long as you never actually do anything gay?
Please see below.
Maybe YOU celebrate women. Your RedPill male compatriots have expressed shall we say, less complimentary views filled with - how to put this? Primordial rage, fear and contempt. Again, please refer to your parent sub's sidebar. If I really must, I will can provide you with a customized list of bizarre, creepy quotes. How many would you like? Please pick a number between one and gazenvity billion.
Big_Man_On_Campus 10y ago
Your problem is you actually believe you can betray your gender. You continue to frame it as a gender war, and contrary thoughts as betrayal. It is seemingly in your nature to present conflict where none exists. This is only useful so long as people pay attention to you. Once they realize you're crying wolf, such appeals have no power.
Please define creepy first.
SoftHarem 10y ago
Your effort is appreciated but this troll is gone.
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Amissmiss 10y ago
Again, you're interjecting your own thoughts into my words. The only person whose judgement matters is your judgment of yourself. AGAIN... i'm not trolling your feminist board to tell you that your beliefs are weird or errant. However, you are here telling me that I'm under the thumb of my husband.
For each quote that you pull from some guy that just realized he's been wasting his life being jerked around by entitled women and now wants to date with abandon, I can pull one from someone in a LTR that says remarks that pay tribute to stable, level-headed feminine women and their desire to please them.
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Big_Man_On_Campus 10y ago
Wouldn't this be saying that men mature faster? I thought faster is better.
Inferior? Where in redpill does it call female thought processes inferior? I want exact quotes, not interpretations.
Women don't need recommendations, the law provides such options.
Demonstrate anywhere, on any red pill website or forum, where physical abuse was advocated. I will accept any links or proper quotes with links. Demonstate this. Don't make vacuous claims and expect to not be called out on it.
Let me tell you what I think of your thought processes on this matter... You don't have any. You have been taught to be offended at the expression of a specific point of view, you have been taught by a cult-like organization that this point of view is intolerable and constitutes a push for inequality and abuse of women. You have been massively deceived.
Amissmiss 10y ago
I'm not apart of a sub that is full of anger. I'm a part of THIS sub for women, which is clearly not aiming to see any woman marginalized or abused. Do you see anyone on this board that needs saving? Do you think we need your vision or your help?
You don't have to participate in a reddit that says men stop maturing at twenty, etc. Our culture as a whole paints men as idiots constantly being saved by women. That is why TRP exists. To help men reclaim their manhood.
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margerym 10y ago
You still are really missing the point that men and women are different. You can't switch the roles here and ask us to feel the same way about it. At least not here. Not saying anything about your cherry picked example(s) of TRP just pointing out the huge unyielding flaw in your logic.
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margerym 10y ago
This is the real funny part about feminism. Anything deemed 'feminine' or historically known as such are now 'weak' 'wrong' 'bad' and so on. Which is, in effect, saying that women are all those things. Feminism has always been pretty misogynistic because feminism has always loathed the female sex and sought to both eradicate it from themselves and validate it by forcing it on others. The plain truth is the lie that being a woman is oh so bad has infiltrated feminism far more than it has any male-led group or society.
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margerym 10y ago
Truth hurts.
embw 10y ago
I actually don't think that this is true at all. How could feminism hate the very gender that it is trying to help?
margerym 10y ago
"Trying to help". This in and of itself shows one of the biggest problems with feminism- "we know what's best for you" is its motto. Look no further than this thread for great examples of that mindset.
Feminism purports to want to help women but it does so by simultaneously denying women their voice and choice by offering a narrow path all women must follow to be of value (they only stand by women they agree with, all other women must be saved or done away with for the good of all womankind) and denying the value of the feminine aspects of society. Suddenly women need to do as men do to be considered valuable. If feminism was really about women then what women have historically done would be supported and held up with respect not treated as shackles we must escape. If women were really valued the focus would be on men becoming closer to women in their life choices not visa versa.
And before we jump on the "Red Pill wants to tell women what to do, too!" Red Pill is a lifestyle choice. Feminism is a dogma that is attempting to change the way we think about and do things across the board. I can walk away from the Red Pill, feminism has made sure that I can't escape it. I mean I can't even have a conversation with like minded women without being told I am ignorant and in need of saving by people "trying to help".
[deleted] 10y ago
I think this is what TRP does. Women are only of value to men if they get married while still young and are virgins, or nearly. Also they have to be hot. That is what it seemed like to me at least.
redpillschool 10y ago
TRP does nothing of the sort. Women have every right to do what they want. We just happened to find a recipe that attracts them. Given free will, they actually choose this "narrow" path.
embw 10y ago
Perhaps some of the actions done in the name of feminism are misguided, I will give you that. However, it is misleading to suggest that feminism offers a narrow path. I believe it is the opposite. Feminism attempts to create a society that allows women to do anything. This includes "traditional" roles such as the woman as primary caregiver. All roles are equally important. Women are of inherent value and deserving of respect, this is what feminism preaches.
I'm not sure what you mean "feminine aspects" and I actually take issue with that sort of sentiment as it implies some sort of naturalistic role of women, rather than that the fact that we have been socialised to behave a certain way.
Could you explain to me what exactly is the "Red Pill lifestyle"?
Feminism isn't dogmatic, unless you believe that women are inherently inferior to men. All feminism is trying to do is create a more equal society where women can do what they want without societal restrictions. That is it.
margerym 10y ago
Historically gender roles have been the norm. I know even feminists agree on this one. That is what I mean. "Feminine aspects" ie the female side of historical gender roles (not saying these are or aren't inherent traits). What we have for centuries related to women.
Feminism is absolutely dogmatic. If it wasn't something as benign as Disney Princesses would be supported instead of shouted down in favor of heroines sporting weapons and refusing men. Feminism does not value or respect women that are not "strong" and "educated" with both of those terms being defined narrowly ("strong"= without a man in fighting whatever fight. "Educated" = agreeing with feminism). I could get on board with feminism if it truly was about equal opportunity for women but it hasn't shown that. Quite the opposite.
And all of this not even getting to what it has done to men.
I know that I used "lifestyle" loosely. I was trying to illustrate the difference. As for explaining what exactly it is there are so many links floating around that can do it better than any tl;dr of mine.
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margerym 10y ago
Tell me more about how feminism supports sex workers. Tell me about the support singers like Beyonce get for their sexy dance numbers. Tell me how it was only one or two feminists who got on Beyonce for choosing to name her tour after her married name. Tell me how no feminist leader has ever called staying home "a comfortable concentration camp" or begged women to "get back to work" with the intent of shaking them out of the home into something of value. And tell me how you are supporting us women here for our mindful choices by asking those of a like-mind to stop trolling us as we are just exercising our freedom and equality.
SoftHarem 10y ago
Feminists only care about female supremacy at the expense of all men, and attractive women. TRP cuts through their bullshit and exposes them as the true misogynists that they are. Feminism is just a sexual trade union which takes wealth from men and redistributes it to the women who are genetic and ideological failures instead of where it should go - to beautiful and feminine women who adore men. If you look at any proper feminist, the "womyn's studies" (lol) kind they are always bitter old hags. Attractive women have no use for feminism so these feminists despise them, and if you combine that with a healthy dose of career victim mentality and penis envy you get the most vile and disgusting group of people on the planet. They want everyone to be as miserable as they are so they attempt to redefine our biologically reinforced concepts of masculinity and femininity to suit their twisted attempt to brainwash us all into Marxists. Needless to say, us Red Pill types are the biggest single threat to their power base so they are going to use every shaming tactic at their disposal to stifle our conversations. Reddit is a notorious cesspool of these hags so it is no surprise they would come after you lovely ladies even harder than us RP men.
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Amissmiss 10y ago
Ha….. well, I'm now picturing the angry woman with a pixie haircut reading your comment and then angry picking up the S.C.U.M Manifesto and saying, 'It's all true!'
The problem I have with feminism as we know it is that it is concentrated on making women identical to men. A woman trying to be a man is an ugly thing. Instead of appreciating the virtues of her gender, she, as you put it, has 'penis envy' and tries to have exactly what men have. Then she gets mad because our gender (usually) necessitates certain things such as baring children in your 20s and 30s, which detracts from our time on the job and our experience/ pay level. There's your career victimization or the so called 'Mommy tax.'
What is missing in our culture isn't an equality divide. It's women recognizing the worth of their traditional roles and not adding grandeur to the roles of men beyond what they are. We're a cooperative species. Women are good at some things; men are good at other things. Women can adore a man and be self actualized. Likewise, a man can love a woman and not be degrading or objectifying her.
TempestTcup 10y ago
I think feminism is also a case of mistaken attraction cues; women are attracted to confident successful men, so women think the way to be attractive is to be confident & successful.
Women don't realize that what is attractive to women is not what is attractive to men. The traits "confidence" & "successful" are not what makes a man drool. Sure, they are a bonus maybe, but not the initial attractors.
Also, it is MUCH easier to be confident & successful as a woman than it is to be thin, feminine & pleasing, the traits that DO attract men.
[deleted] 10y ago
i have a feeling the more submissive aspect and the fact that the male point of view is taken into account at all is what makes it controversial to some
Amissmiss 10y ago
I mentioned this in another comment, but I don't feel submissive. I think this arrangement plays to my strengths as a woman. I don't have to do everything my husband does in order to be equal. Funnily enough, I learned in a women's studies class in college that equal doesn't really exist anyway. Everyone has a varying degree of privileges and setbacks that are unique to them. My setup is different than my husband's lot. We both have a different setup from a man living in the South Sudan. Its all relative.
redpillschool 10y ago
This is spot on. The idea that women might want to improve themselves for men is absolutely crazy talk to them. They see it like a slave trying to work harder for his owner. They do not recognize women as people, but as slaves.
DaddyMonster 10y ago
That might be the conscious thought, but as for the feelsies, I'd flip the analogy:
" The idea that women might want to improve themselves for men feels absolutely crazy and degrading to them. That would be like an owner trying to work harder for her slave. They do not feel that men are people. Rather, they feel that men are slaves."
[deleted] 10y ago
I think that the red pill for men or women should be deeper than just a discussion of gender roles and differences between the sexes, or even how to physically attract a long term mate. There is a lot of bullshit that people tie up with one ideology or another, but I prefer to look at red pill as a logical assessment of concepts and notions that are held to be true by any group and how those concepts or notions may or may not lead to long term happiness.
[deleted] 10y ago
you may want to read this "welcome message, why we are here"
http://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1giney/welcome_to_red_pill_women/
you are like a capitalist at a communist forum insisting that communism should be based on rational self interest, private property rights and individualism.
[deleted] 10y ago
I have indeed read the welcome message. But it seems to me that focusing on just the surface level subjects is shallow and will lead to a wall.
Will wearing a pretty dress or idolizing women for their style lead to long term success and happiness however you define it as a woman? Probably not. I am not saying that women should be completely butch slobs, but addressing issues that are deeper will ultimately make you more attractive. I wrote a couple posts here, like this and this, that do not seem entirely out of place.
margerym 10y ago
I think you're seeing what you want to see. For insistence the thread I started about inspirational women was meant to be about more than style but not rejecting style, either. I think if you actually gave it time and paid attention you'd find that we talk about an array of topics within TRP. But you're so bent on seeing us all as being ignorant and superficial that's all you care to talk about. Like this thinly veiled passive aggressive slight: "Read and educate yourself. Step outside of the typical female activities or reading romance novels/magazine and watching reality TV. Read real books about subjects that interest you, mix it up and read both fiction as well as non-fiction. If you find a subject that interests you, learn more about it and don't be afraid to learn about things that are traditionally woman topics." I get that you are concerned for us (concern trolling) and thanks but no thanks. Your posts have done nothing more but show how little you know TRP and the women that agree with it.
margerym 10y ago
I have to ask- why are you so invested in making TRP something you can agree with? Why not acknowledge it's not for you and move on? Why must it only exist on your terms? As danab pointed out your tactics are like trying to insist one group must be just like another, that that is what that group really is. You do realize that you're trying to turn things your way just goes to prove so many points TRP has made about women and feminism, right?
[deleted] 10y ago
Why must it exist only on yours? We have disagreed previously and arguing with you again about terms seems rather boring and tedious. I have given my opinion, you have given yours, we fundamentally disagree. Have a good evening.
margerym 10y ago
I'm not saying it should exist on mine, that's your line of thought. I am approaching TRP as TRP, not trying to change it. It's not that you and I fundamentally disagree it's that you aren't here for TRP you're here with your own agenda.
un-coolmom 10y ago
You will have a lot of arguments about opinions and terms, you're making the arguments. Check the title of the sub, then decide if you would like to post or not. If you find the conversation boring, go away.
[deleted] 10y ago
I am not going to bang my head against a wall arguing the same point over and over again with a troll. I stop responding when I find something boring, pointless, and lacking substance.
My eyes are open, I don't need to prove it by bashing feminists or anti-feminists.