I was lurking on the Purple Pill Debate sub, and a comment caught my eye. The user seemed sincere and genuinely interested. After talking a few things over with my SO, I sat down with the intention of trying to explain several things about this sub (everything from why we talk about some subjects but not others, how some things work, what we tend to prioritize here).
Initially I thought "oh, I can cover this relatively quickly" - but then I just kept talking (my normal MO haha). It was interesting (and time-consuming) to try and cover things in a broad (but detailed) manner.
Somewhere along the way it dawned on me that this sub can be deceptive. We focus on self-improvement and relationships...but there's a lot of moving pieces that go into both of those areas. Self-improvement is related to dating/relationships in many ways, but they are also very distinct. Anyway, I'm rambling.
I'd like to share the comment with all of you, and I'd also like to see how you would go about responding to the initial comment. If there's a particular topic you'd like to focus on - then go for it. This is really about seeing how all of you personally explain and define things (either to yourself or to other people). I enjoy talking/thinking about concepts and theories the most on this sub, so even if you think it's entirely unrelated - go ahead and share anyway.
Here is the original comment that got my attention and below is my response.
RPW doesn't really present any concept of feminine life outside of finding a "captain" and becoming a wife.
The focus of the sub is self improvement, but specifically on improvement that will make us more attractive, appealing, and capable of finding a good man. TRP focuses on many different things (different dating strategies, MGTOW, and overall self-improvement in every area of their life). It's not that we say "women cannot pursue their goals and things that they love" - only that we focus on things that will be more likely to make us appealing to men - and that's an important distinction.
Many of us are business owners with numerous different interests, jobs, and passions. There are some professional weight lifters, sailing enthusiasts, writers, journalists, there's a lady that has been studying mycology (for fun) for the past 15 years, some that are active in the Military, hunters, back-packing/hiking junkies, ladies that are studying to go into the medical field, and other ladies that are in high school. All of us have differing opinions when it comes to religion and politics - and those opinions vary in every direction. The RPW sub is about the RP female mating strategy, which focuses on finding and earning the commitment of one good man.
We advocate for a healthy lifestyle in terms of eating well and exercising - because body proportions play a big role in attraction. Occasionally we talk about clothes, make-up, hair, and nails - which is fine. That said, those things all focus on the exterior, but the most interesting (and challenging) work actually takes place internally. Learning to recognize certain behaviors, understanding why some things are more productive or destructive when trying to date.
The RPW sub doesn't say "you have to be a wife/gf and nothing else" - but we only focus on behavioral patterns as they relate to successfully (and positively) interacting with the intention of meeting/catching the attention of a good man. From a RP standpoint - men don't really care what a woman does for a living. Now, does that mean it's impossible for men to be interested in a woman's work? No. Does it mean a woman should never talk about her job - especially if she's passionate about it? No. That said, there is a tendency for women to emphasize the wrong things when they are getting to know a gentleman.
Most ladies that a gentleman goes on a date with will most likely mention either their schooling or job. Some of those women don't know when to stop talking about such things, or they go into a date thinking "I have this awesome degree" or "My job is spectacular" (all of which may very well be true). The problem is that the fancy degree and the wonderful job isn't going to impress, or make them more attractive to a good man, as much as they (the woman) thinks it will. From a RP perspective, men are used to meeting women that study and work - it's nothing special. Being able to function as an adult, and supporting yourself is nothing to write home about. Men don't respond to a woman's earning power or educational accomplishments the same way that women respond to a man's earning power and educational accomplishments. From the RP perspective, being feminine in both personality and behavior will make a RPW far more attractive than relying on education and work to sell her value.
One of the most basic notions (for me) has always been that users already have hobbies, school, work - areas of their life that allow them to lead a busy, varied, and fulfilling existence. I firmly believe that people need to be content, happy, and self-sufficient before they start looking to date. Rock-climbing and scuba-diving are fantastic hobbies, but they don't directly relate to the RPW sub (which focuses specifically on the female mating strategy according to RP ideas/concepts/etc). RPW isn't about memorizing a 50 point step by step guide on how to navigate every situation - it's more of a compass that allows you to navigate through life while being mindful of certain things.
The way they characterize "complementary" is less like the that of an equal partnership and more like that of a Bike (man) and Training Wheels (women).
We talk a lot about the Captain/First Mate dynamic, but not all the ladies there utilize that method, which is fine. There's a common assumption that every Red Pill Woman wants to find, date (and possibly marry) a Red Pill man - which isn't the case at all. Red Pill Women want to find a good man, and the chances of meeting a Red Pill Man out in the world is slim. More to the point - not all RP Men are good matches for an LTR (for various reasons). Some of the gentlemen are only interested in spinning plates, or they want a relationship where the woman is exclusive to him while he has the freedom to date other women. Those are both perfectly fine strategies for the RP gentlemen to pursue - but no Red Pill Woman in her right mind would willingly pursue that kind of arrangement. We advocate for exclusive relationships. Many of the ladies on the RPW sub are with men that have no idea that “Red Pill” is even a thing besides two random words thrown together. Being a good man doesn’t require that man to know anything about RP, many of the men that the ladies are attracted/married to/or dating do have traditionally masculine traits, but not all of them. In many ways “good” is subjective, and there’s a lot that goes into shaping chemistry between two people and how their personalities will work together within a relationship.
The Captain/First Mate dynamic could be an entire thread on its own, and I’ve seen this model implemented in numerous different ways. There are some expressions of this model that would severely compromise the stability and happiness of my own relationship, yet those variations are perfect for other couples. Part of how the Captain/First Mate dynamic is implemented has a lot to do with the personalities at play. I know that the way my SO and I have created the C/FM structure may not work well for everyone (for various reasons), but it’s still the one I keep in mind first and foremost when I talk about this (and yes, that’s a solipsistic view on my part haha). So keep that in mind as I try to explain things.
A good Captain/Leader takes responsibility for a lot of things. He is the first and last line of defense in many ways, he shoulders responsibility for his SO’s happiness, comfort, and security. He prioritizes her needs because she prioritizes his needs and by being a good First Mate – triggers his desire to be a good leader. A good leader delegates tasks, understands his SO’s strengths and abilities. A good Captain is pro-active – and so is a good First Mate. We have clearly defined the boundaries of our relationship, we are both mindful of how we interact with each other, we address issues before they become problems. There is a hierarchy within our relationship, but that doesn’t mean he holds all the power and I have none.
My SO makes decisions that benefit our relationship, not because he wants something. That’s a very central aspect to my ideal of a good leader. A good First Mate does the same thing because the individual is secondary to the health/stability of the relationship. Both the Captain and The First Mate work to protect the relationship in various ways. I protect my SO’s reputation and show that I respect him by how I interact with him in public, speak about him, as well as how I treat him when we are alone. When something comes up, I freely provide my opinions and insights – my SO values my input, especially in areas where I have more experience and knowledge.
That’s another misconception about this dynamic – many people assume that the Captain is a tyrant, with final say in all things, and is all knowing….I’m not sure where that misunderstanding comes from but it’s wrong. A good First Mate knows the difference between small issues and big problems. I often handle things that simply aren’t worth bothering my SO with (and he does the same). I have insights and perspectives that help resolve issues, and we are always working together towards a goal. Honestly, we’ve never had a fight or an argument. We don’t squabble, bicker, or have disagreements. If and/or when there’s an issue, it gets brought up, discussed and addressed. Once something has been resolved – that’s the end of it and there are no lingering negative feelings.
I’ve mentioned this before, but friends and family (people that know me well) would never say “clearly this relationship is unbalanced/unfair." If anything, we probably look as though we implement a completely egalitarian and equal relationship because of how well we treat each other and how simple everything looks. That said, our relationship is based not on equality, but on mutual satisfaction and a clear division of duties/roles.
I'm open to hearing what RPW think women CAN do in their lives that have them live up to their potential BESIDES being a wife.
As I've touched on before - we have busy, fulfilling lives, but when we're on the RPW sub, our focus is very specific. The RPW sub is about self-improvement (becoming a better woman) and attracting a good man. If the woman in question doesn't already have a well-rounded life in terms of school, work, friends, and hobbies - then she certainly isn't in a good place to date and look for a good man. I believe that ever woman on the RPW should be satisfied/happy on her own prior to looking for a relationship.
The interior adjustments and realizations that usually have to be implemented allow the ladies to shift their perceptions in such a way that they begin to notice things they were previously unaware of (often this includes behaviors that most men find tiresome and unattractive). Self-awareness and accountability are big things that take time understand.
Justifled 8 years ago
And soccer subreddit has discussions about soccer and movies subreddit has discussions about movies. They don't present ideas about business or car maintenance. Doesn't mean none of the members have a car or none of them own a business.
SuperSlavisWife 8 years ago
Well done. :)
Something I think people miss is that many men grow up thinking of themselves in terms of what they possess (money, women, time, a good job, education, friends) rather than who they are (interests, hobbies, personality, career, social ties, goals). This can result in men becoming dissatisfied with their lives and their lot, placing too much value on money, individual people and certificates and too little value on their own development. Therefore men, to better themselves need to pay attention to their own identities and goals, which they are incomplete without. On the contrary, women often grow up thinking of ourselves in terms of who we are (interests, hobbies, personality, career, social ties, goals), rather than what we possess (money, men, time, a good job, education, friends) or what we can do with it. This can leave us busy and stressed without much at all to show for it at the end of the day but a feeling of self-importance. Doing our job well is less important than having a career, associating with the right people is less important than finding the right man. So, to balance ourselves out, we need to think more beyond ourselves.
This annoys liberals because it means men becoming happier about themselves, free from political correctness and social fear and generally succeeding; and women realizing that we have roles in life, one assigned by biology, one by culture and one by the financial system and that we have a duty to fulfill each. This obviously leads to a dynamic closer to traditional gender roles than anything else, which may be more pleasant for most individuals of both sexes, but upsets the far-left idealists.
TL;DR: In modern society men think they're no more than what they have and women think they're no more than who they are, RP philosophy evens that out and allows for a more harmonious dynamic.
EvianChronicles 8 years ago
And this is why I like TRP but love RPW. Being a traditional catholic male, married with the understanding that marriage is both for ever and exclusive, I van relate to the Red Pill idea, but the focus on "picking up women" is just a bit less relevant to my situation then the RPW focus on healthy LTR.
But, but, am I trying to learn from women then, as an alpha-red pill-man?
Well yes. Only an insecure man would not :)
[deleted] 8 years ago
Fantastic explanation. Thank-you for taking the time to write it.
aZombieKitten 8 years ago
This was an amazing explanation, Phantom. I really couldn't explain it better if I tried to.
sugarcrush 8 years ago
That was quite a read through phantom! But worth it ;)
I would agree with you and say we don't talk about it here because there are other forums on reddit and the internet in general for discussing hobbies, careers, and everything else. But there's very few that focus on this marriage dynamic!
Additionally, the times threads about these things have come up, I think our members have shown to be a very diverse group. Some people have feminine lifestyles and some not. I like getting to know the other RPW users (I wish I wasn't so busy and could come back to the IRC more :( ), but there's not really much of a point to discussing other parts of our life here. Despite what certain other groups think of us, every RPW is different and enjoys life in her own way. The only thing we really all have In common is dedication to our relationships. When I want to discuss the career/hobbies, I go find similar people elsewhere. But if anyone is down for a discussion on DAP I wouldn't say no :)
gijibe 8 years ago
This is absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing!