tl;dr Have had plenty of associates through life, not shy or especially awkward, but no friends and no invites anywhere as I watch others not struggle at all.
Most posts about friends here are about ditching an old circle for a new. I feel like that at least gives a chance to segue, which I don't exactly have. Even the most beta guys here casually mention all the time "I was at this party and this girl..." or "my guy friends don't respect me" etc and I can't relate to that at this juncture.
I used to be a stoner and in college all social activity was to smoke weed. I could call other potheads with the purpose of asking them to smoke, and sometimes they'd do the same. I latched onto some guys that way, I wouldn't call them either beta or alpha. I rarely went out in college. I'm not a nice guy in any sense, so that's not the diagnosis which is another thing that frustrates me trying to find solutions, because everything's geared towards pushovers. I don't have a problem looking people in the eye or talking, though I do often have a hard time coming up with things to talk about with anyone. I'm tall, visibly out of shape: definitely fat, but not obesefat (obviously another problem to work on, but fat guys have friends so that's beyond the scope of this). I get along fine with people at work and at school, but they always remain just work friends or school friends, so moreso associates than friends. After college I had a drug addiction for some time and didn't talk to anyone, and when I came out of it I moved cities to go to grad school. Throughout my 20's I've had a couple girlfriends that I either met online (all of which had much lower SMV than (I think) I have) or girls with whom I faked being alpha but that veil quickly dropped. But again, girls aren't why I'm writing...
Socially I would guess most people think of me as somewhere between a non-presence and kind-of-a-dick. I realize this, but don't know how to be even tolerantly amiable. Three of the biggest eye openers regarding my social ability that I'll never forget.
A. In my last college house, filled with stoners (again, all somewhere between betas and alphas) the other guys in the house went and scouted and signed a new place without me. One of the guys in a candid honest moment explained it to me that "[I'm] dead weight, [I] bring nothing to the table". It wasn't intended to be disrespectful, just blunt.
B. In grad school one guy I would actually call a friend cut me off one time after I said something probably dickish "Dude, what's that about? You remind me of my uncle who isn't smart or funny and has nothing to say so they just insult people". In context for him it was just a passing comment but it hit close to home... it made the top three list.
C. Through college I was friends with stoners who crossed paths either by their frat (which I wasn't in) or because they were from the same home town. In my home town everyone's kind of... hickish, or lower class or something. So I always told myself that I'd make friends once I had people I could relate to. When I came to grad school I thought this is it, its the perfect time, everyone's starting fresh so I'm not the weird outsider. And I got invites for the first few weeks or months, and I made a conscious effort to "try" by hosting a weekly poker thing, which people came and still come to. But a few months into grad school I noticed cliques forming even amongst the groups I thought I was part of, until I start realizing that there's group texts and emails and bar nights that I'm not part of. I don't even think it was a conscious thing, I think it was moreso nobody even thought of me. And now the cliques are formed and now when I do show up to the very few invites I get (only the ones where its obvious they invited their whole phonebook) and grad school's almost over, but at least it served as the final nail in the "it's not the people, it's me" coffin.
But I don't know what the problem is. My way of relating to people is to what I consider banter, which from the above obviously doesn't make them feel bonded to me. If I drop the bantz then I have little to talk about other than weak small talk (how's classes, etc). Othewise I got nothing. And the problem escalates; the more I got without a thriving social circle, the more other people are atuned to social cues, etc, and the less I am. And it's not just the overthinking, either; I genuinely thought I had fixed it and was rolling with the flow when grad school started and I was hosting, etc, until the reality that I was still an outcast set in.
There'll be no more opportunities as "fresh start" as the beginning of grad school was. I know "get involved with hobbies" is one valid answer, but the problem's deeper than that: everyone around me in those easy situations like grad school even though a lot of them are some mix of beta, or not especially funny, or don't have any interesting hobbies. There's something else that I can't figure out that has put me at 28 years old with no friends. I want friends, guys or LJBF girls even, to call me, to ask me to come places once in a while. I know friendship's a two way street, but my hosting poker weekly for literally months with a wide net of people coming, but receiving 0 reciprocity turned me away from that as the default response: friendships should have reciprocity, I think.
FrameWalker 8y ago
I was in a similar boat. Remember people need an incentive. Give them things others can't. Here is my list ordered by scarcity
1) access to hot guys and girls (sex/genes)
2) access to high social value people (resources) these are people with skills, money, fashion advice, musicians, interesting people, fun people and warm and kind people
3) a location with a great vibe. Ie a very clean apartment with a pool table, house with backyard pool and a great view, apartment right by bars downtown etc
4) adventure. Man thirsts for the thrill of the hunt. Some use drugs for this but fast cars cliff jumping and offshore fishing are great alternatives
You can yourself become high value and sexy and that means you carry a small dose of 1/2 everywhere you go. Makes it easier to attract other high smv people. Your validation is valuable, and you have to give it out slowly for people to crave your time and attention.
If you're out with girls on the regular everyone will notice. Guys who want tail will want to join you. Taken guys will want to live vicariously through you. I am fairly active in this arena it's one of my hobbies and so I sell sex. To my wingman and other men I hold access to women. If you come to my house parties you'll find girls who ljbf me months or years ago. You'll find former plates and friends of girls. To the women I sell access to my male friends. Here its interesting because while hot guys are enticing the need for validation is even more pressing so higher betas are extremely valuable as well. Taken guys are very popular too. This is what I sell.
For my male friends I focus on hobbies. I build up my skill playing music and catching fish and I share that with them. It's a very even trade. We don't play video games or chat. We workout, rehearse, or go approach girls together. Mission oriented.
bicepsblastingstud 8y ago
Most of the other commentators are glossing over this, but I think it's important:
Clearly other people don't consider it banter.
awyden 8y ago
I had a friend like this. All they would do is make fun of each other and me included. It wasn't banter. It was just throwing insults. I stopped hanging out with them because while I'm not particularly sensitive, hanging out with someone who just throws insults isn't very fun.
WillWorkForLTC 8y ago
Watch comedy. A lot. Stand up especially. Once you start to see the world for the fucked up hilarious mess it is, people seem to love your company. Work on your humor and there is no scenario you can not overcome.
Metalaggeddon 8y ago
This is all great advice here, listen to it op. I noticed not anyone gave you consistent steps to follow to correct this.
1) say yes to anything new that doesn't damage you, "that you can afford" this is not just for people asking you to do things, local meet ups from Google or meetup.com are great ways to try new things often cheap. You should be searching half an hour a day for public things you haven't done, and go to one, even alone, each week.
2) hit Wikipedia. Use the article of the day. If there's anything interesting in it, go to the library, get a book on it. Crush the book asap. Move to a new article. Being informed and well versed in a variety of topics does wonders for how curious you'll naturally be, and how you communicate your innate value socially. You should aim to be crushing about 300pgs (one book) Per week. If you're a slow reader, work towards it, you'll get faster.
3) lift. And practice natural fitness on days off.going to the gym is a quick way to find people who do natural fitness outings, like basketball, hiking, etc. Join their groups and be honest about it "i've never done that before, I'm stoked to try it out, mind if I join you?" Practice your new social dynamic there by introducing yourself to everyone there.
4) and this is underestimated. Any outings you go to which are not of the above nature should be to comedy clubs. Begin to write your own set, talk to the comedians, study up on being funny. Go up and fail a few times, go back, get better. This helps in myriad ways for your interaction ability, public speaking, staying calm, being clever and quick witted, etc. Plus, girls fuck comedians.
That's a quick set of things you can start applying this week, and keep at it. Keep a record at the end, after every outing, take notes on what you read and find hobbies that directly relate. Above all fucking enjoy yourself. Learn who you are by doing everything.
Good luck op. Hopefully in 3 months you'll follow up with a badass shift FR.
zenplus 8y ago
Good post, and would like to heavily emphasize point 1. Try going 3 times a week to meetup. Some of the groups are full of socially awkward people but the regular ones around an interest are gold. For example, one of the ones based around my ethnicity has been paying massive dividends for social circle and dates. I consider myself to be an expert at meetup. After the event just message the person on the meetup.com site. Obviously if they're on meetup they're looking to meet people so 4/5 times they say yes. Even better, say you're inviting multiple people from the event. That way there's no chance of an awkward 1:1 meeting. I've done this 5-10 times and I have basically a full social life.
-rubashov 8y ago
Taken from the Rational Male blog
Forgot friends. Work on yourself. Become comfortable with doing things by yourself and alone. Pick up hobbies and new activities, but do them because you enjoy them - not because you might meet some mates.
If you're not getting girls, you wouldn't go out and make them a central part of your life. You'd hit monk mode, focus on yourself, do the things you enjoy, raise your smv and they will come. The same applies to friends.
94redstealth 8y ago
This is it right here. Make this statement false and it all will change. You need hobbies, interests, passions. There is nothing that makes you, you.
You even admitted that nothing defines you. Go do something worth talking about. Keep doing things until something smacks you in the face so hard that you want to do it everyday of your life.
FinnianWhitefir 8y ago
This explained similar stuff in me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_disorder
Half of therapy is getting used to being with another person, relating to them, learning how to communicate and keep a conversation going. I highly recommend trying it, as it seems like you just don't have that experience/practice in truly communicating.
Johnny10toes 8y ago
You're going to have to put something in it. I do suggest hobbies that you can do alone or together with someone. Fishing or shooting and stuff like that, outdoors and masculine. Find something you like though.
Next you can invite a couple of associates to join you. If you can prod them beforehand it's better. That way you know they like hang gliding or whatever.
You're going to have to do this a few times with them to make them a friend.
XanderHS 8y ago
thanks for this post, I really vibe with this situation.
martin-ho 8y ago
I only read the TL;DR but, yeah, hobbies. I'm sure there are plenty of sports you may like and you will find friends when you do a sport. You don't have to go shooting or fishing because "it's masculine" if you think it's boring, just find something you like and do it. I like watching football and I also enjoy playing it, team sports in general are fun. But I also like boxing for example.
Find a sport so you can do a physical activity which will keep you fit and give you an adrenaline high. Going to the gym is, let's be honest, pretty boring. We all do it 50% to get disciplined and 50% to look good. It's nice to have a physical activity besides working out just for fun or to actually do something.