I’ve been attending a mom and baby class with my daughter and have gotten to know a lot of the moms in my area. I live in a pretty “girl-boss” neighborhood and I have never met another SAHM my age. I’ve been hanging out with some of the other moms and recently told them that I’m planning on becoming a SAHM/working little from home as soon as my mat leave ends. The moms often put me down saying “I could NEVER be a SAHM. I would be depressed and go crazy being alone with my baby without any adult interaction. Why would you give up your career like that? So sad…” etc. I stopped bringing it up after these comments because in just felt embarrassed.
The other day I had a play date with one of the moms who said to me “I wish I could spend more time with my son after mat leave ends”. I talked to her about dropping to part time and she said how she can never do that. I described to her how my husband and I were making it work and she said “that’s so amazing. Honestly I would not tell the other moms about your plans anymore. They told how jealous they were that you get to stay home with your daughter and how you can make it work in this economy.”
I was so shocked. I wonder how many “girl bosses” actually think this way but put us down because they don’t want to admit it….
HappilyMrs 2y ago
I got shunned by my antenatal group during mat leave because they hated that I was going to be a SAHM when they were returning to work. What they didn't see was all the things we were economists on or going without to make it work, sacrifices they could but wouldn't make.
Luscious-Grass 2y ago
Your post is really off putting. It sounds like you are hurt by the way these women treated you (understandable) and are lashing out at them in a similar manner as a result by claiming they are secretly jealous (not the highest-minded response).
Also, they may view themselves as more responsible than you. Many people can make SAH workable NOW but the opportunity cost is huge and considered by many to be irresponsible financially.
You'll never get acceptance from everyone. I hope you can learn to just make peace with your choices as best for you and ignore what other people think. They are doing what they feel is best for them or choosing what they feel they have to given their circumstances.
AccomplishedJicama66 2y ago
And I’m glad that works for you. But you wouldn’t be put down for that in society. But I will for my decisions and that’s what sucks.
AccomplishedJicama66 2y ago
Also, why change your original comment? Because you knew it was too aggressive?
Luscious-Grass 2y ago
Yes. I softened it.
AccomplishedJicama66 2y ago
What I mean is that some people actually WANT to be at home more. It is easy to admit that you want to work, it is not easy to admit that you don’t. No need to be rude.
Luscious-Grass 2y ago
That's not what your post said though. Your post was about how working mom's are secretly jealous of SAHMs.
The truth is that working moms are jealous of certain ASPECTS of being a SAHM, and SAHMs are jealous of certain ASPECTS of being a working mom. Almost no one gets the best of both of those worlds.
I don't think it's healthy to try to validate your choice by convincing yourself that others not making your choice secretly wish they were and just can't. I don't think that reflects reality and it doesn't serve you.
It's fine to acknowledge that society judges SAHMs more than working moms in 2021 and that it's hard for you to deal with sometimes, but it's not fine to cast stones at other women when you really have no idea what goes into the calculus of their choices.
AccomplishedJicama66 2y ago
That’s not what my post said. My post said that the truth comes out that some women are jealous, AKA the moms who belitted me. Of course some aren’t. I said that I wonder how many “boss babes” wish they could stay home but can’t because of societal expectations. You can’t deny that there is a stigma behind moms who stay at home and there isn’t nearly as big of one for working moms. The Canadian government is trying to subsidize daycare so that more women can work but won’t support women who want to take on the childcare role themselves. I think it is your own biases and prejudice that made you think I was implying all moms wanted this, but that’s not the case. And there are women who secretly would like to stay home, as pointed out by my friend.
Full-you123 2y ago
I’m sure many do. I’m a teacher not a girl boss and even after I have children I’ll have to go back to work after mat. I’m not even pregnant yet, not even had a child yet or had mat leave and I’m already literally dreading the idea of having to go back to work
[deleted] 2y ago
Our whole society is weird. Where I live there is no great childcare and not a lot of high paying jobs so a lot of moms are staying home when they otherwise wouldn't and they gripe about it. Everyone loves to complain.
[deleted]
cbunni666 2y ago
It happens. Stick to your guns and find out who are your friends early.
[deleted] 2y ago
[deleted]
[deleted] 2y ago
[deleted]
grahamcookiefart 2y ago
You put it so well! Even from the societal environment aspect, I didn't know until I moved to Europe that kids were having sex from 13 yo onwards (from where I come from it was unheard of to even have a relationship before you were out of school). I was gobsmacked, if my daughter goes to a school where all the 7th graders around her encourage her to have sex when she's a literal child I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. That and obviously underpaid, overworked teachers aren't always trustworthy.
[deleted]
pearlsandstilettos 2y ago
Don't pet the unicorn. Removed
[deleted]
plein_old 2y ago
Wanting to be with other moms who share your values is natural.
Maybe you can make friends with SAHMs who live further away from you, or who live nearby but whom you haven't met yet?
In general it can be a good idea to stay away from people who are dishonest and negative. We tend to become like the people we spend the most time with!
AccomplishedJicama66 2y ago
Totally agree. ❤️ that’s why I love this community.
Praexology 2y ago
The Fox and The Grapes, Aesop's Fables
Sour Grapes
"Used to refer to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves."
Whatever people can't have, they pathologize themselves into hating as a means to avoid their own dissatisfaction. The more you convince yourself of the decision, the more ego invested you are.
Ego investment is a very hard blinder to see through.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
And no ego investment is harder to shake than a religious identification. Most women don't say "I believe in feminism", they say, "I AM a feminist." It's part of their identity. Challenge things like that at your peril.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
It's a distillation of the difference between redpill and bluepill. Even most Feminist women (BP) want, deep down, a strong, confident, competent (RP) male partner. They'd love to have a traditional relationship. But because their ideology doesn't permit it, they have to pooh pooh it in public, and be catty, envious bitches behind your back.
Pola_Lita 2y ago
I can't imagine anyone wanting a weak, frightened and confused individual as a partner. Not of either sex or any political leaning.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Some people do, though. Some women want weak men because they're easy to control, and they think that will make them happy.
Pola_Lita 2y ago
*Some* people, yes. But not the majority, or the emotionally healthy for that matter. And those qualities aren't exclusive to BP or RP women.
Really, I think it harms "our" cause to stoop to name-calling and ad hominem attacks of those who disagree or even those who are less than respectful of our right to live as we choose.
When someone sticks to the facts and the real points of the issue, other people do notice and then they listen more openly.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Agree. But I didn't name-call or ad hominem.
Pola_Lita 2y ago
​
​
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adjective
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
I'm going to assume we have no argument on the definition of name-calling.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Funny thing about the majority of feminists - they are deep into identity politics, where their identity is fused to their beliefs. It's why you can't argue with them (and why they will not rationally debate anyone who doesn't hold their opinions); to debate their opinions is to open the possibility that their very existence is incorrect, flawed.
This is intolerable to them. This also applies to SJWs.
As for name-calling, it's not name-calling if it's accurate. If you've never had someone sour-grapes or passively-aggressively snipe you behind your back, you're dang lucky. And as a reminder:
or
or
Believe it or not, I actually used the dictionary definitions above to accurately describe most feminists I've known (and one I married, sigh). It's not namecalling if it's accurate and descriptive. Name calling would be calling them assholes, for example.
So you are wrong, on all counts.
Pola_Lita 2y ago
I'm not wrong.
Yes, it's still name-calling. "Bitch" qualifies as name-calling as surely as "asshole" ever has.
ass·hole
/ˈasˌhōl/
noun
VULGAR SLANG • NORTH AMERICAN
a person's anus.
2.
A STUPID, IRRITATING, OR COMTEMPTIBLE PERSON.
​
Again, this would be a character assault rather than an attack on feminist ideology. Character vs. ideological. Person vs. Position.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
You would be correct if mainstream feminism was like other value systems. i.e. if it was like, say, Austrian Economics. I like AE, I think they make financial sense, and their results are reproduceable and generate wealth and prosperity for all. That said, my identity isn't tied up in be an Austrian Economist. I don't take a criticism of them as an attack on my character. I don't hold AE policies as if they were religious tenets.
Feminists do ALL of those. Feminism - mainstream feminism - is a religion to many. It IS their identity. They consider their identity as feminist to be synonymous with their identity as a woman, or as a good person, etc. It's not somthing they believe in, it's something they ARE.
This is how Identity Politics works. You aren't an individual, you are a member of the group, and only the group identity matters. This is how Feminism operates - and this is how mainstream feminists operate.
Character vs. Ideological? There isn't a difference for them. I have yet to truly sit down and debate with a rational, fair feminist. Not because I'm unwilling, but because they are practically unicorns. Just look at the number of center-left, center, and right-wing commentators who have remarked on this very problem. People like Tim Pool, who is very much center-left, can't get feminists to come on his show because they can't/won't debate.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you simply aren't aware of this, and are not intentionally giving cover to the mainstream feminist movement. But your character vs ideological argument is predicated upon feminists in general having a sane, rational position that they are arguing from a position of intellectual fairness, and that simply isn't the case most of the time.
I'll give you the Bitch ad-hominem though. Sure.
Pola_Lita 2y ago
This is an ad hominem attack against me. Of the witch hunting variety.
​
What does this even mean? If their position is irrational or insane, this will be shown via debate. This is the point of debate in the first place, rather than just attacking each other. Explain what you mean by "intellectual fairness", please?
All you're saying here is that due to their overzealous attachment, not only are feminists' theories wrong, but that you are also freed from the requirements of maturity and civility into the bargain. In addition to being illogical, that's still just a personal attack. Person vs. position. Ad hominem.
[deleted]
Ghoztt 2y ago
My father once told me that feminism was not created to liberate women. It was pushed by large entities to create a 2nd taxpayer.
To where once 90% of women could be stay-at-home mothers, now 90% have no choice but to enter the workforce because they've collectively devalued men by competing against them in the workplace, when deep down they would rather just be a SAHM.
zuraken 2y ago
Only works for the few initial generations until the population collapse. Capitalism really is a pyramid scheme and people are paying with their future.
pillchangedmylife 2y ago
Your father is correct
Fredfredfred777 2y ago
Indeed, and it'll be interesting to see where things go from here. If we needed a second income to keep up with inflation and to actually afford to live or own a house, what happens next? Inflation is still rising, and it's got to the point where two incomes are starting to become insufficient.
Dazzling-Importance1 2y ago
Also women spend more than men so where woman had to persuade men to spend the money now the money is directly in their hands.
Pola_Lita 2y ago
I don't understand why the other moms would tell you one story and the mom you had a play date with a completely different one as to how they feel about their situations. I tend to think opinions in that sort of situation would vary across the board and not necessarily match up with each woman's current circumstance, either.
But really, who could ever know how many and why would it matter? I *know* my style of life is best for me and, I believe, a lot of other women and men too. But that doesn't mean there's any logic or benefit in deciding those who don't agree are obviously jealous, lying, too ashamed of their own choices to admit it, etc., etc.
I wouldn't cut myself off from this group but maybe try expanding to include more who already live the way you're planning to. Like another here said, "it's natural". :)
AngelFire_3_14156 2y ago
I don't understand why people find it necessary to make comments like these.
My mom of all people reacted negatively when I told her that I was planning to be an SAHM. She said what about all that effort you put into your education and career? You're just going to throw all of that away?
I told her that we had decided this, it's what I want and I wasn't backing down. My work colleagues didn't react because I didn't tell them, just that I was going to take a little time off.
How you spend your life is really no one else's business, except yours and your husband's.
You do you.
AccomplishedJicama66 2y ago
My mom and mother in law did the same. It’s just the societal view now. It’s too bad.
s_e_j 2y ago
It amazes me how women of older generations dont see the value of being a SAHM. I expected my MIL to be supportive but she is not.
Nandemodekiru 2y ago
Probably because the extreme was shifted the other way. I believe that women in the US weren’t able to open a separate bank account until the 1970s, therefore they had no money of their own. They felt trapped in their situations with men who weren’t fit to lead.
summerisntmyfriend 2y ago
I don't have a single conversation with my mother or mother in law where they don't bring up that I'm a SAHM, both criticize me from different reasons and tbh this constant negativity gets to me sometimes and makes me feel less valuable but I know that I'm doing a right thing.
[deleted]