This comes in response to some pushback I received on my previous post, in which I suggested that your husband ought to be your number one in the whole world. Some people took issue with this, arguing that your children should come before your husband. I will make a case for why your husband should always be the center of your universe.
Marriage is a unique bond, unlike any other. It's a fragile bond that will easily disintegrate if left unattended.
Did you ever not see your sibling for a few months? Did you ever not see a close friend for a few months? When you meet up once more, you can continue where you left off.
You can do no such thing in marriage. If you don't constantly nurture the bond, it will quickly unravel.
The bond you have with siblings and friends, is a bond based on sameness. Thus, it is a bond that is cold and still. You can leave it alone for a while and pick up where you left off.
The bond of marriage is a bond of opposites. There are always opposite forces at play, pulling you apart. You must be active to keep the bond going. Thus, this is a fiery, passionate bond that is in constant motion. A bond that must always be actively maintained.
Therefore, if you want your marriage to survive - let alone, thrive - you must treat your husband as the center of your universe.
But how can you neglect the needs of your children?
Good question. This is perhaps the only caveat that I'd place. Yes, when there is an immediate need, you must tend to the helpless child before you tend to your husband.
Obviously! The baby cannot change its own diaper, cannot feed itself, clothe itself etc.
However, you don't need to be doing this 24/7. Even when life gets hectic, you can still make your husband feel like the center of your universe. A simple example of this would be to express appreciation for what he does and yearning for longer and deeper connection in the future. You can always nurture that flame, each and every day.
When you aren't constantly putting out fires with the children - a little planning goes a long way. Plan into your schedule, daily bonding time with him. I remember growing up, my parents spent 30-45 minutes having tea together every night and we were not allowed in! Yes, sometimes their tea was shortened or canceled due to a screeching baby… but generally speaking, they made a point of doing it every day and they're still at it!
Tending to the needs of dependent children, need not interfere with prioritizing your husband.
But my husband is a grown adult who can care for himself!
Yes. He certainly is. I'm sure he took care of himself just fine, before he met you. He didn't marry you because he needs you, he married you because he wants you.
As explained earlier, the marriage bond will disintegrate if left unattended. You may have a thousand reasons and justifications for why you shouldn't have to treat him as your number one priority, but if you want a successful marriage - this is what you need to do.
But I don't want to turn him into a narcissist.
Don't worry about that. The world will give him plenty of beatdowns and lessons in humility. Your job is to be his biggest fan, his support team, his cheerleader, his safe space.
But it feels weird.
Yes. I understand that. I felt that way too. As mentioned in the previous post, my marriage was unraveling because I was acting based on all the justifications, including the fact that it felt weird. This is part of the toxicity of the current zeitgeist…
My grandmother showed me the way on this. I have come to appreciate that the way she treated my grandfather, wasn't merely an antiquated way from the olden days.
No! She was actively nurturing her marriage, every single day! As soon as I started acting more like her, my marriage too, began to blossom and bloom, just like hers. And you know what - the resulting benefits, melted away the awkward feelings!
In conclusion, treating your husband as the center of your universe, is about continuously nurturing the fragile bond that is marriage. Children present challenges to navigate, to keep this flame alive. Children should not be an excuse to get lazy and allow your marriage to disintegrate.
die_for_dior 1y ago
I think the phrase "putting your husband before your children" sounds awful. Even though I agree with everything you said. It's just the wording that throws people off. It sounds a lot like " you should love your husband more than your kids".
Of course it's important to nurture your relationship. However, you cannot prioritize your husband over your children. This mentality is why so many women don't believe their kids when they tell them that their father touched them inappropriately. Or even stand by their husband when he's violent with the kids.
On the other hand, prioritizing your kids over you husband leads to loveless, sexless marriages.
I think that having a marriage and being parent are two separate relationships that link in most ways, but still need their own spheres to be nurtured.
Arson_Tm 2y ago
hi! genuine question, i won’t lie, i’m a bit critical of this thinking but very curious as well. why do you think that if you don’t constantly nurture this bond, it will disintegrate? my husband and i are less being pulled apart than we are best friends. we function as a pair, but we have the emotional maturity of best friends. in my mind, children need that attention because they are not fully differentiated, they need that attention and care. that being said, you’re right that it’s important that they are able to learn that they are not everything, that they can care for themselves later in life.
therealtaulbs 2y ago
This makes sense, but I struggle with this. Mainly because my husband and i’s parenting styles are so different. He can be pretty harsh and IMO unnecessarily mean with our kids and I simply won’t stand for it. We’ve had plenty of conversations about it too but I won’t sit by and let them be verbally assaulted or punished beyond reasonable expectation. (Another thing he does is have unreasonable expectations for them. He expects them to have more patience and understanding than he does. They’re toddlers)
[deleted] 2y ago
Eh I really really reallllly disagree with this. My husband and I both think the kids come first. Always.
We chose to have kids. They didn’t ask to be here. So yeah it’s all about them for the first 5 years or so.
Your husband can be a priority without putting him before your kids.
[deleted]
[deleted]
LuckyLittleStar 2y ago
No petting the unicorns.
KombuchaEnema 2y ago
Geez, OP.
I agree with your premise but it’s your wording that really screws you up.
Prioritizing your relationship and nurturing your bond is…well, a popular idea. Most people would agree that adults need alone time. The problem is that people struggle to put that into practice when real life swamps them and they start getting overwhelmed.
Saying “my husband should be the center of my universe” could be used by a woman who allows her husband to physically abuse her children. You have to be careful with the hyperbolic wording because I have met at least one woman on Reddit who genuinely believed in letting her children starve if it meant her husband got to eat (her words, not mine). So there is a precedent for people to take your wording to its logical extreme.
Better wording would be: “treat your husband as a priority”
Even the title of this post is silly. The family unit is important - parents and children should not be competing with one another. My husband doesn’t need to come before my children and my children do not need to come before my husband. There are compromises that allow us all to be happy and satisfied with our lives and the time we spend together. That is how the family unit functions - as a team, not as a group of individuals butting heads about who’s more important to whom.
I hate those “who do you love more, your kids or your spouse” questions. How silly! Love is not finite. Your attention is not finite. Choosing to spend an hour of alone time with your husband at the end of the day doesn’t mean you’re putting him “ahead” of your children.
Are your children happy? Cared for? Satisfied? And you also get time to spend with your husband and he is happy? Cared for? Satisfied? Yes?
Then can you truly say you’re putting him first when your children are just as happy and taken care of as he is?
SunshineSundress 2y ago
I don’t really have an issue with OP’s wording. I think she’s been making solid contributions the past few days.
I don’t think OP should be held accountable for the crazies who misinterpret her message or for those who aren’t sound enough to understand nuance. A lot of people similarly misinterpret the Bible and use it to shame, reject, and condemn “sinners” like prostitutes, divorcees, and thieves. They tend to forget that the Bible and real life is a lot more nuanced than that, and that Jesus hung out with and accepted prostitutes, lepers, and all kinds of sinners as if they were his own children. The people who will use OP’s post as a justification for cruelty, sadism, or abuse are those who have much bigger problems than this post, problems that nobody here is equipped to help solve.
Think about it this way. Let’s say that OP, inspired by her parents, has a scheduled daily tea time with her husband. But today, her oldest child comes to her freaking out. He has a school project due tomorrow that he didn’t get supplies or do any research for. Now he has to scramble to get it done, and he needs her help and to spend the entire night working on it! If her children and her husband were of equal priority, she would cancel the tea time and address her child’s more pressing matter. But OP’s argument (that I agree with) is that doing so will chip away at her relationship with her husband, and the damage will compound the more she makes these choices.
OP made this entire post to clarify that there are of course some necessities for the children that HAVE to take precedence no matter what:
However, there are plenty of other ways that our children ask for our time, that are not necessities. I agree with OP that free-range parenting is the best way to raise kids. Instead of dropping her plans with her husband for her eldest, she can tell him to do his best, and let him experience the hurt and frustration that comes with procrastinating your responsibilities. Instead of spending an extra hour everyday giving her daughters gorgeous elaborate hairstyles, she can figure out something cute AND easy for them and spend the extra time tending to the bond that needs to be maintained with her husband.
If you have to choose (because we do only have 24 hours everyday) between frivolities with your kids or with your husband, I agree with OP that it is wiser to choose your husband. Because in the long run, the kids will be happier if their parents are in a happy and fulfilled relationship with each other. They’ll use that to model their own relationships down the line. We can also realize that a lot of times, we won’t HAVE to choose, and can find time for everyone!
[deleted] 2y ago
I'm not sure what the issue is. I'm waiting to hear back from the person you responded to. If it's something I can work on, maybe I can improve. If she just doesn't like my style, I can't help that.
Half my post is describing the dynamics of a healthy marriage, so no, I'm obviously not speaking about someone in an abusive marriage in this post.
Correct. In cases like this, I will tell the child to wait or set them up and come back to them.
Generally though, we try to plan to not have these conflicts, but let's be real - they will happen and when they do, you absolutely have to make a choice.
Side note, I'm not a big fan of homework in general and I'm definitely not going to stay up all night doing it with my child. If they get such massive homework that they can't do on their own, it isn't fair homework and the teacher will receive a call from us.
Most things, most of the time, fall into this category. With a little bit of planning, most necessities can effectively be treated this way as well.
Yup
Whisper 2y ago
"Your lack of planning does not constitute my emergency."
SunshineSundress 2y ago
This was a HARD lesson I had to learn myself, specifically because I WAS that eldest child and my mom always flew to the rescue when I procrastinated.
[deleted] 2y ago
It's difficult to say this to your own children, but it's absolutely necessary to impart the life lesson.
[deleted] 2y ago
Yes. I know that. I'm trying to make the case, for how critically important this is. When you see it as being that important, you will find a way to make it happen. If it isn't that important, you will allow it to slip away... not because you don't value it at all, but because other things are of higher priority to you.
After all that description of a healthy marriage, this is obviously not the logical conclusion from what I wrote.
When you sit down for dinner as a family (I hope you do), who do you serve first? Why?
It isn't about loving more or loving less. It's about loving differently with completely different relationship dynamics and therefore, different treatment.
Yes to all of the above. But this was only accomplished once I began to treat my husband as my number one priority and the center of my universe.
Prior to that, the answer was mostly no to most of the above... sadly.
Treating him as a number one priority does not equal mistreatment of the children!
The children are doing just fine - and are fully cared for - while not being the center of the universe, around whom the world revolves.
In fact, not having the world revolve around them is much better for them in every way.
OmarNBradley 2y ago
This is a decent premise but you have set it up as a very binary proposition. My husband and I both care a lot about our kids; it isn’t as though I am the only one doling out attention or affection to the entire rest of the family while they sit back and wait for it. He has his own relationships with our kids and prioritizes them in certain ways; me in other ways; I do the same.
The kids’ dire needs come before our own. Our wants generally come before theirs. Pretty much everything else comes out in the wash. But I have never been one of those “my children are my world” women.
[deleted] 2y ago
Yeah. I see what you're saying. I didn't mean to do that.
Yes.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Take your own advice and reread your two sentences above. Nurturing your marriage/relationship does not, in ANY scenario, include condoning or permitting child abuse or neglect. You're the one being hyperbolic.
Bet it wasn't an endorsed poster on RPW. That's insanity under all but one circumstance - if he's sole provider, and him starving means he can't provide and the whole family starves. But that's such an extreme example (at least in the West) that again, it's pure hyperbole.
[deleted] 2y ago
Thank you.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Hey, I call 'em like I see 'em. Your two posts were solid, btw.
[deleted] 2y ago
Thank you very much
[deleted] 2y ago
OP, I completely agree with your premise in theory. But I think that in practice, it can make a woman feel like she is involved in a tug of war between her husband and her babies.
Lots of times, men go out to work all day and come home wanting to share news, or looking for a soft place to land, or whatever and that is great - but those wonderful hardworking men dont always notice that the baby is fussing while the toddler is spilling juice on the rug at the very moment when they're trying to command their wives' undivided attention. It is hard at those moments to put your husband first, and if you have a few kids, those moments are pretty constant.
What worked for me, instead, was giving my husband enough time alone with the kids so that he really knew what the household needed. He started SEEING what was going on all around him and participating. Then, with both of us plugged in, it was mich easier to give him the love and attention he always deserved.
[deleted] 2y ago
I understand the feeling. I was that woman in the past...
My grandmother convinced me to try it and see how it goes, even if I don't understand how or why it will work. My marriage was in shambles and I had nothing to lose, so I tried it and it worked beyond my wildest dreams.
In the end, everyone is happier and everyone is more fulfilled and less needy.
[deleted] 2y ago
"A bit of planning goes a long way and even during hectic times like this, you can find 60 seconds in the day to give him a big hug and kiss and thank him for whatever he took care of and to make him feel like he's your hero."
​
I guess we are talking past each other. I mean, to me finding 60 seconds in the day to hug and kiss my husband is like the bare minimum -- doing that doesn't really mean that I'm putting him before my children.
What exactly did you mean when you said that our husbands come before our children? Can you be specific?
[deleted] 2y ago
Yes. It is the bare minimum. I agree.
And if that's all you had, your marriage would fall apart.
Sadly, there are many mothers who go into full mommy mode and completely sideline their husbands.
My point was, that in the way you speak and act and treat him - it should be clear to everyone that he's your number one. Because he's number one, you can't ever let a day go by without somehow acknowledging it. So even when you're dealing with babies all day long, you take 60 seconds for your husband, because he's that important to you.
Treat him with respect and admiration. The kids should see this.
When something comes up in scheduling or decision making - I'll ask my husband.
When you serve food at the table - serve him first.
We do this and don't do that because daddy likes this and not that.
These are a few examples, but they can be endless.
[deleted] 2y ago
I see! Thank you for explaining. I agree with all of that. Your title was so dramatic that I thought you meant something much more controversial : )
Kali_skates 2y ago
I feel like I received a lot from this exchange.
[deleted] 2y ago
VasiliyZaitzev 2y ago
I knew you were going to get a bunch of that. Like "But what if I have 14 kids and they are all special needs?! My husband can wipe his own butt! CHECKMATE!"
Some time ago, I wrote a piece on TRP called "Never Put Kids First". It also got a lot of blowback by well-meaning people. There were also lots of TRP Oreos^TM – red on the outside, blue on the inside – that came at me over “hating kids”. I am not anti-kid, ofc, I am just realistic about them. There are no unicorns, including unicorn kids.
Here's why you are right:
The family is the foundation of society, but the marriage is the foundation of the family.
That sounds like a lot coming from a lifelong bachelor, but it's also True Facts.
The problem of "Baby über Alles" is it results in this attitude, which you correctly called out (in yourself) in your previous post: "I was in full mommy mode and I deserved -DESERVED- the world from him for nothing in return." That leads to putting hubby LAST behind you, the kids and the pets - and also leads to what the Romans called "Deadicus Bedroomicus" and the "We just grew apart" divorce.
If you do not tend to the foundation, the house will crumble and fall
If one pursues the "Baby über Alles" mode, hubby feels neglected, wife, rudderless, becomes moody and resentful and the kids who always “came first”? They turn into entitled little crapheads. It’s a problem.
I've seen this movie 1000x times before: It is the bluepill propaganda of baby-worshipping diaper-sniffers. It's designed to be an unassailable excuse so that dad and the marriage can be put last or neglected altogether. It is the natural evolution of the "Woman > Man" philosophy of Toxic Feminism: Kids > Woman (but not really, it’s just the lie they tell) > Man. It's enough to keep hubby at bay in the bedroom and a good excuse not to lose the "baby weight", etc. What happens then? Well hubby becomes dejected AF about no affection and getting to be a wage slave - married men work ~400 hours more a year than single men. That's 2.5 MONTHS longer, based on a 40 hour work week - and next time you talk to a married guy who is paid by the hour how many hours he works each week, it will be way more than 40. He's working more and exercising less, and probably drinking and watching SportsBall! to dull the pain of his existence, and chubs up, too, because, well, might as well. Ugh. It's bad for everyone.
You know who does well for the family? The guy whose wife sends him out the door each day with a full belly and empty balls, or at least a kiss and some encouragement. That guy will have a Heart of a Champion and will do better for the family. Many women do not understand their own power: Wives 100% set the tone in the home. If the wife is cheerful and takes care of her family, the home will be full and warm. If she doesn't, then the house will be cold, dark and might as well be empty.
[deleted] 2y ago
Wow! Well written and thought out.
I'll have to start using this line. I love it!
Yup. I've seen this movie too. I started playing it out myself, regrettably. Thankfully I turned the ship around before it was too late.
This is so true.
LittleDragonMaiden 2y ago
I can always make more kids, but I only have one husband. I always put my husband first.
[deleted] 2y ago
I guess that's one way of putting it
dusky-jewel 2y ago
laughs in military wife
titlejunk 2y ago
I grew up in a Navy family. Grandfathers, uncles, father, brothers.
I knew from the moment I began noticing boys that I did not want that for me.
It’s a special breed of person who can deal with months of separation from your supposed partner.
Most humans actually don’t function well like that.
[deleted] 2y ago
How successful are their marriages?
dusky-jewel 2y ago
Mine is coming up on 25 years.
It takes a very strong commitment to be a military spouse. Just because you aren't capable of it doesn't mean the ones who choose it aren't.
[deleted] 2y ago
Exactly!
Why does it require such a strong commitment, stronger than usual?
Why are most people incapable of maintaining such a marriage?
Because a marriage will naturally unravel if left unattended. Exactly my point in the post
dusky-jewel 2y ago
So your point is that most people have weak commitment to their marriage?
cebollofor 2y ago
You are right OP don’t listen to much, a husband and a wife are the most important to each other because whit out one of them there is nothing, parents, sisters, brothers, kids, will make their own family or have their own family that is the healthiest way of life, good luck
beepincheech 2y ago
I agree with this. I think of it like a marriage is a family’s boat. If it sinks, you’ll all drown.
intotheconfusion 2y ago
From what I have seen in life, this is true.
[deleted] 2y ago
Hmm. I don't think I can agree with that analogy. Because that's a do or die immediately, type of scenario.
I like the analogy of a tree better. You water it and tend to it every day and it grows slowly. If you mess up along the way, you can always fix it unless you chopped down the whole tree....
ddouchecanoe 2y ago
You could compare the tree analogy back to the imagery of bailing the water out of the boat to make it fit again.
[deleted] 2y ago
You could.
But is your marriage and family merely about working on not dying?
Or I there positive growth and development too?
ddouchecanoe 2y ago
You could pick apart any analogy. A conversation of this sort demands flexibility in thinking.
ddouchecanoe 2y ago
Your children are a representation of your love. Without your love they wouldn't/shouldn't exist. Your home cannot remain the nurturing environment they were created to occupy if you stop holding the bond you share above all.
(Like obviously not if the stove is on fire, but you get what I mean)
[deleted] 2y ago
Yup
PreciousMuffn 2y ago
[deleted] 2y ago
Wise man
SunshineSundress 2y ago
Nice post! I think you’re spot on. The part about the bond with friends/siblings vs. the bond with your partner was insightful! I never thought about that, but it’s absolutely true. I’ve also been a firm believer in this:
Lots of nuggets of wisdom in these posts! I’m excited to see what else you have on your mind!
[deleted] 2y ago
Thank you
kulikitakating 2y ago
I love this post
[deleted] 2y ago
Thank you
Supercuate 2y ago
OP, you get it. I´ m M37, happily married, 17 months old baby daughter.
My relationship with my Wife is the most important strategic relationship I have and it will always be like that. She is my family.
I love our daughter like crazy, but I know if I don't nurture my relationship with my wife and let it go stale this family project is as good as dead. I also understand that if my marriage fails I will not be able to be the best father I can be to my daughter.
​
I think this R/ is awesome. Love reading your posts ladies.
[deleted] 2y ago
Thank you
Lando_620 2y ago
I agree. I've viewed it like this. In a marriage you're a team, your partner is in essence an extension of yourself. You can't neglect a part of yourself without doing your whole harm. Just like planes you have to put your mask on first before helping others. If you neglect your partner (husband or wife) in favor of even kids first, you will ultimately cause the kids greater harm in the long term.
Are there going to be extreme examples of this that cause neglect of the children, certainly, you can always find extremes. Like everything else though you need to find balance. It isn't about choosing your partner 100% of the time over everything else, it is about choosing them the a large majority of the time, because the two of you are part of a greater whole.
[deleted] 2y ago
Well said!
CountTheBees 2y ago
Oh my gosh, you're on a roll. I would love to comment more on your posts and give them the time of day they deserve and get into the nitty gritty in the comments. Keep going! You're doing great. I'll do a proper comment when I get a chance.
[deleted] 2y ago
Awww. Thank you so much.
Please do get into it more, when you have a chance.
CountTheBees 2y ago
Subconsciously I must have already known this because I spend 20x the amount of time with my boyfriend than I do with any of my friends/family. Before I read that quote, I couldn't explain how or why but I knew if we were separated for a long time some of the easy natural dynamic we had would be gone, and we'd have to work super hard to get it back. Distance is an enemy to the relationship. You're spot on.
It may be very natural to want to put kids first, but this is one of those times that instincts are misdirected. I read it before somewhere else, but I'll restate it here:
Mothers would sacrifice themselves for their children. And men would sacrifice themselves for their wives and children. But it doesn't work in reverse. Children don't sacrifice themselves for their parents. Wives don't sacrifice themselves for their husbands. Why? Because it's about strength, responsibility and duty of care. Men are the strongest, they protect their families. Mothers are the second strongest, they protect their children (until the boys grow up anyway). You can't protect something stronger than you (unless they are temporarily weakened) so it doesn't work in reverse.
So my logic follows: If you put your children before your husband... you risk losing the greatest source of stability and protection in their lives. It's madness. This isn't the ideal situation - of course - but imagine a woman who has a very ill tempered abusive husband. He hits her and screams at her every day. But at least he provides regular meals and keeps her (and her children) safe from other men. They know that he would hunt them down if they ever touched her or his kids. And if he ever died or left her, the others would kill her children and rape her and she would have no food. This used to be reality a few thousand years ago and those instincts are still hardwired into our brains. Surely she would want to appease him, prioritise him, treat him nicely, to keep him onside? This is the instinct of prioritising your protector, even if he is not a good man. So... if that's how you would treat a bad man, why would you treat a good man worse?
Why is the child-protective instinct is overpowering the protector-gratefulness instinct? Is it because women no longer need protection from their men? I don't know. That's about as far as I can get today.
[deleted] 2y ago
And because one man can simultaneously impregnate many women, but one woman cannot simultaneously carry the offspring of many men.
Therefore, men are the disposable gender.(on an individual level, from a biological standpoint).
Yes.
But also - marriage itself is not exactly natural. Marriage is how we curb and limit our expression of natural instincts, in favor of long term benefits.
You can count this as one of those curbed instincts.
We don't feel a direct and immediate need for protection.
And let's be real, we (collectively) have gotten fat, lazy and entitled...
CountTheBees 2y ago
Half agree. As someone who until recently did not believe in marriage at all - I am about to start defending it. It's been part of our society long enough for us to have developed a female hierarchy - if there was no marriage, there would be no female hierarchy. (Almost) any woman could have (almost) any man as long as she shared him with others. The presence of a female hierarchy, and other traits such as love goggles, and the increased oxytocin when a man has sex with the same woman for a long time, indicate that men and women have evolved to the point where at least some of the instincts support a marriage like arrangement.
So some sort of long term relationship arrangement is in our DNA. It's definitely more recent than the polygamous spray-and-pray approach but it's there.
Oh yeah. The outer reflects the inner. Maybe even if women don't need protection, their kids still need care. Which is why that instinct grows rampant while the other subsides.
[deleted] 2y ago
Yes. Even animals form families. But marriage is unique to humans.
I'm not sure what you do and don't mean by female hierarchy.
Love goggles seems to be a result of male responsibility.
All this needs more thought
CountTheBees 2y ago
Female hierarchy is SMV and RMV values. How it tends to be that like ends up with like and it's easy for everyone around a couple to tell if they're a "match" or not. Males have an extremely clear hierarchy, but the female hierarchy is less well established, because it's newer. Moreover, the way females interact tends to suppress the formation of a clear internal hierarchy, even though a sexual one clearly exists with respect to males.
I'm just spitballing, not very coherent really.
[deleted] 2y ago
Hmm... I don't know if I agree with this. I'll have to think about it.
Material-Tension4367 2y ago
Gosh what you water grows - nothing could be more true than with your marriage. Putting my husband first has made me feel he is much more supportive, loving spouse. Some of it is he has wanted to be more I think, and some of that comes from me seeing what was always there before I was rp. And I feel so much better. I slip up, I have my faults but I’ve worked hard to lay the groundwork and much of it comes automatically now. And when I do mess up or he does - we are able to quickly repair and move on- we know we’re each other’s priority.
Not putting him first - is bad for everyone kids and you
[deleted] 2y ago
Yup! Exactly.
pillchangedmylife 2y ago
My mom did this. Shes a Narcissist and my dad is a codependent doormat. They got off on abusing me. I have not spoken to them in 10 years. Good luck
kyle_fall 2y ago
If our mom was a narcissist and your dad a codependent then she didn't really put him first now did she? She probably used that philosophy as an excuse to get her needs met and ignore not only your needs but his too.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Nobody 'becomes' a narcissist without either a predilection to being one, or serious pressure and encouragement in that direction (i.e. fan/media pressure on actors/athletes, etc.) This fear is usually unfounded and a rationalization for not putting in the work on the relationship.
[deleted] 2y ago
Agreed.
I was paraphrasing one of the objections I received to my previous post.
There were other objections that I didn't address in this post, but some were already brought up in another comment.
Whisper 2y ago
Yes, in fact praise doesn't create narcissists at all.
Narcissists seek praise and admiration because they were not given love and don't know how to get it.
Actors and athletes don't become narcissists because they are given admiration. They were already narcissists, and they became actors or athletes as a way of seeking admiration.
The reason they never stop seeking admiration is that their real need is for love, and admiration never fills the hole for long.
JadedByEntropy 2y ago
If someone is codependent hard enough, they can make one. Almost happened to me.
Basically worshiped me to an insane level and the only way to get any peace was to aim to destroy the other person’s heart to make them give you 5minutes alone. As their tolerance increases, you have to fight ever harder for increasingly shorter times of rest away from them. Because they always forgive everything and push their way back in to smother you again, even apologizing for doing nothing wrong just to get closer. I grew up with a narcissist so I recognized that behavior forming and was furious that I not only understood where it was coming from, but knew exactly why they did it. Its kinda traumatic to sympathize with the methods of your abuser, because it actually works to get peace against codependency.
It scared me that it actually made since and was a natural response to exactly what she's saying not to do...dont make your children your world. Dont become the codependent hovering parent smothering your kid.
Their only freedom would end up being attacking you like a narcissist to escape you for peace. Because there is no escape so they have to make you stop, because the codependent one is the smothering aggressor.
yogurtnutz 2y ago
Interesting, I was always taught that the womens first priority is the kids and the man’s first priority is his wife.
[deleted] 2y ago
What's the reasoning behind this?
yogurtnutz 2y ago
It’s from the Bible, Or at least that what I was told, I couldn’t point you to a verse
[deleted] 2y ago
Okay
[deleted]
[deleted]
Motor_Ad283 2y ago
This is exactly why I’m never having children. I’m a big fan of my fiancé, I’d hate for a distraction to appear.
raven_lou_chicken 2y ago
I agree mostly but like the other commenter stated it could've been described differently.
[deleted] 2y ago
Would you mind sharing with me, what you agree and disagree with and why?
How so?
Throwaway230306 2y ago
I've been trying to put a finger on why you're getting pushback on this post and some of your other writing, even though the points you're making are totally valid. A few thoughts:
-More examples from your personal life would be great. Your tea example, and Sunshine's hypothetical about homework are really good and add color to the theory.
-You don't address the issue of what a woman should do if she doesn't really like spending time with her husband. I mean, if he's that great, shouldn't she want to make him her #1? Here, it comes off like a bit of a chore. Anecdotally, I find that a lot of women like their husbands less after having kids. You see this phenomenon all over mom groups, there's even a book called something like "How not to hate your husband after having kids." Maybe an idea for a future post.
-Some people associate putting your husband first with fundamentalist Christians, like the stuff you read about in the fundie snark sub. (Which is funny, because the marital dynamic you're encouraging is quite positively described in popular secular books like Bringing Up Bebe, one of those "the French do everything better than us Anglos!" books.)
-Finally, there's a bit of a sense you're sermonizing from above, not speaking to women as their peer. Like, when I read this post I want to sit up straighter and make sure my nails are clean, you know? I don't feel like I'm troubleshooting with a girlfriend. Which is fine, realz before feelz for a lot of folks here. But you might get pushback when women don't like the feelz they're getting.
[deleted] 2y ago
Hmm... okay. I can't do that while remaining myself. I share when it's relevant, otherwise I don't. And I will only share so much...
This is a problem in its own right, that requires its own post. Two points come to mind.
Maybe she just needs some more alone time.
No. He should be her number one because he's hers. Not because he's great.
I know plenty of women like this. It bothers me to high hell, each and every time... I will write more posts in the future, but I will probably never write a post on how not to hate your husband....
Oh. Okay. Maybe I'll address that point in a future post. It's about a certain type of male female dynamic in relationships. It has nothing to do with any of the groups you mentioned, of which I am not a part.
Hmm... that's interesting. I'm interested in hearing more if you have more to say.
Thank you so much for the feedback. I really appreciate it
kyle_fall 2y ago
This question of yours is a fascinating one. I say question because I think its a really deep issue that we haven't really figured out. A lot(if not most people) pick their partner out of necessity, convenience and practicality rather than pure choice/love/soul mate/whatever else you wanna call it.
Its hard to separate the animal side of us from our fully human/spiritual side. The conclusion I'm getting at is that IMO the women you're referring to picked their men(consciously or unconsciously) as their childrearing partner, not really as their life partner.
I think the whole notion of not getting lost in choice and being able to stick through issues and work through marital/relationship issues is great but there's also the other side of the coin; if you had ultimate choice is this really the person that you'd choose to spend your mortal life with?
I'd recommend watching this video here by the techlead as it gives a pretty concrete example of this phenomenon. He describes how as their financial situation as a couple ended up increasing dramatically, his wife lost interest in their marriage and ended up taking their son and leaving him. To me it's a good example of how they made a good practical team to make a child together, pay the bills, figure out the basics of life but once they made it and basic survival was not really a concern anymore, she decided he was not her person and she wanted more out of life.
Apologies for the tangent but basically my point is these women have to sit down by themselves and truly figure out if their husband is the person they want. It makes sense that after having kids you kind of have that pressure relieved from you and you decide that you don't want to spend the rest of your life with your current man. Or maybe you do and its just parenting pressures that are getting the best of you. It's a choice only the individual woman(or man) can make for themselves.
It's a tough choice but a beautiful one.
ddouchecanoe 2y ago
She should work on connecting with her husband so she can actually like him more. The only way to do this would be to spend time with her husband..
Or I guess leave? But that kind of rejects the premise that you get out what you put in and considering the subreddit we are on that doesn't really make sense here.
[deleted] 2y ago
This is not the second solution IMO. The second solution is that she might need some personal space to breathe.
person1369 2y ago
I think the issue is how hyperbolic "number one priority" and "center of universe" is. I think your husband should be a priority, but not number one above all else. If it came between saving my kids or my husband, I will save my kids every time and expect my husband to do the same. That wouldn't be the case if he was the center of my universe. I'll prioritize my husband's wants over my kids' (most of the time) and my kids' needs over my husband's (most of the time). And sometimes I'll prioritize myself above everyone. Treating my husband has my number one priority would mean when I don't want sex and he does, I still have sex with him. I'd be prioritizing him over myself, which isn't something I do. Everything is a case by case basis. My husband should always be a priority and I need to make time for him and care for him, but he isn't number one.
[deleted] 2y ago
Well, how this plays out is for each couple to decide.
I'm not addressing how to die, I'm addressing how to live.
How do you decide when to do which one?
person1369 2y ago
1.) But you're arguing the case for why your husband should be the center of your universe if you want your marriage to survive. That's a charged statement with little room for interpretation. Unless you're being metaphorical and meant when you're with your husband treat him like the center of your universe, which is different. I'm explaining that your word choice is causing some people to push back on what you're saying. For example, with your parent's tea time. You said they would cancel if there was a screeching baby. That baby became #1 priority, not your father and not tea time.
2.) But that's part of it. If my husband was my #1 priority, I would choose him. I would choose him over everything because he is suppose to be #1.
3.) It depends. That's why, for me, no one person or thing is #1 priority all the time or ever is the center of my universe (the closest that someone could be is me because I'll still be here if my husband dies first and when my kids leave).
[deleted] 2y ago
I hear you.
But I didn't make a statement. I gave an explanation that included details and caveats etc. In other words: not black and white.
Yes. This is what I was talking about.