Not hooking up with someone you are just trying to get to know is one of the most obvious arrangements agreed upon within this sub. I would like to observe, however, that after the third date is where things get the most weird. The general population views the fourth date as the date where it is finally acceptable for the woman to bang. Clearly, we as a group are much stricter than that.
The fourth date is also the weirdest because you may have oneitis but you don’t actually know what’s going on at that point. You cannot assume the best (that he has oneitis for you too) nor can you assume the worst (that he still just wants to bang). You cannot read his mind. You must talk to him about not banging. If you worry about how he feels about you emotionally it is clearly not time to bang. Not banging is the ultimate test to see if he will stick around.
What kind of things do you do to keep a relationship going, keep a man interested, and all without sleeping with him? What kind of advice would you have for young women who are trying to remain “good girls” in the midst of a hook-up culture?
Here is my approach to this kind of dating personally:
I keep my expectations of him low. I am never one to pull a “what are we?” conversation especially in the beginning. I want the man to feel free to do whatever he wants outside of our encounters. This ensures that his time spent with me is 100% willful and not forced. Also, if he expresses desire for exclusiveness and monogamy it will come across more genuinely.

radioactivities9 9y ago
Continue to be vulnerable (a good time to express your perceived insecurities and be upfront about flaws) and tell him what you like about him so he's not confused as to why you want to spend time with him. The genuine stuff. Shyness has to leave in one way or the other, if the shyness isn't laying on a pile on the floor with your clothes it has to go in some other way :)
You're charming online so I think you shouldn't underestimate yourself.
Landry86 9y ago
Thank you :)
Landry86 9y ago
Sounds like an overall good reason to avoid online dating
md8716 9y ago
I don't know, putting myself in the guy's shoes....you need to bring something to the table more amazing than usual if you're going to make me wait weeks, months, or even until marriage. You need to add more value to my life than a little cooking and cleaning. You can't just be some basic becky and demand massive commitment without sex. Maybe a beta chump with oneitis might fall for that, but men who have high value and options won't.
Also, if I ever had any indication that you had been sleeping around prior to me, and decided to make me the exception who has to wait, that's an automatic no-go. No amount of SMV/RMV is worth being made a fool of.
Landry86 9y ago
"you need to bring something to the table more amazing than usual if you're going to make me wait until marriage"
Oops. I forgot to brag about myself...
md8716 9y ago
Well, from a couple of your other posts it sounds like your biggest advantage is being a big fish in a small pond. Which is honestly a smart move, but doesn't illustrate very much.
I'm from a small town in LA too so I've got a pretty good idea of the environment.
Landry86 9y ago
You are correct. It does not illustrate much. That is the point. Small town = easier to make friends.
It is also easier to make enemies.
[deleted] 9y ago
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Landry86 9y ago
Thank you!
Yes, I'm pretty much the hopeless romantic/prude of the group of friends who aren't married yet. My married friends just see me as normal....
Honestly? I've never been "pumped and dumped". Ever. But I don't put myself in a situation where it could happen in the first place. I was raised by a masculine father who taught me well about such things.
[deleted] 9y ago
I will give you some insight into my side of things, I make no recommendations as to how you should action this info, I just provide it for your edification. I have dated an awful lot. Good girls, bad girls and everything in between. You are spot on that if there is no sex by date 4 then things start to get weird. I have never actually embarked on a relationship with any girl who did not have sex with me very early on. In my experience sex is always the girls decision, if she wants to fbang you, good girl or not, it happens fast. I have been with a few very good girls, trad cons, only one or two previous partners and they were mainly over 30 (Im old).
First girl made it clear no sex before relationship, on our fourth date she dragged me into her room and banged the shit out of me. I gave her a chance at a relationship, we saw each other three more times, but I just wasn't feeling it, so I told her sorry, she got hurt. Second good girl I met online, a lot of flirting, then some phone sex before meeting. She also made it clear no sex before relationship. Again I did not push, we meet for the first time, great dinner, no alcohol, polite conversation. I do not push but ask if she wants to come to my room for a coffee, you know how that story ends. We have an LDR for almost a year, but things do not work out. I have three similar stories, all fairly good girls, swear no sex until relationship but all of them sleep with me first or second date (I am not pushy, and I see all of these girls many times after the sex). I am always open to a relationship, I guess I am just used to girls bonking me very early in the journey. I always give girls a chance at a relationship.
So not to buck the conventional wisdom here of make him wait, but for me I give every girl a chance to secure commitment, except ONS when we both know it is just for fun. Even then I would always see them a few more times to see if we click. So the "make them wait for sex" thing is your call, I do not think most guys hold it against a girl if she sleeps with them very early. TBH it just makes me far more open to a relationship. I have never nexted a girl for bonking me early on, I have nexted plenty for plaing the "you can wait" game. Maybe some guys have different attitudes but I do not think less of a girl for giving it up very fast. Good girls do it at least as fast as bad girls in my experience.
Landry86 9y ago
You bring up another point: most women these days bang early on. Thus, when a woman (like me) comes along, I think it confuses the guy. I just can't for the life of me figure out WHY ON EARTH a woman would SAY she is a good girl but ALSO have sex early on without a clear commitment. It doesn't make any sense.
RcktMan77 9y ago
RP men have learned not to listen to what women say, because there is no reason for us to take them at their word anymore when most all women are saying the same things, but clearly doing exactly the opposite. Instead we observe their actions, and more often than not trends begin to emerge which we leverage to our advantage.
Just look at the online dating guide that exists for RPers. It is spot on. All women respond to the brief initial questions posed them from a guy in the exact same manner. If they're interested, it's a repeatable 4 message process to get an interested woman's number on an online dating site. From there it's another few days before meeting them in person, escalating things, and eventually plating them.
You can say that you're not that type of person, and that's fine. But there's a lot of women out there who will behave exactly as described, so the question becomes how do you overcome that and keep a guy interested in you...
downvote_isnt_disagr 9y ago
You can express a lot of desire and attraction without banging. It's not a light switch [fuck-nofuck], it's a painter's pallet with many colours - you can paint a lot of things without using red or pink.
Even words can be super seductive and expressive. "You're so sexy" is a powerful phrase. "I want to so badly, but... not yet, kiss" is much much easier for a man to take than "no, I'm not doing that". Remember, it's 90% an ego thing for a man. His ego is that tiny soft spot in between the large jagged rocky exterior.
However, if he finds out later that he waited 3 months with you, but when you were in college you banged 3 guys in 3 nights and you don't even remember their names or anything but how hawwwt they were, he's going to feel like you don't value him and he'll be crushed.kind of off topicimanewwoman 9y ago
So what would you recommend? I wouldnt make a guy wait 3 months. For me three or four dates its ok. But what if you have changed and dont want to bang right away anymore? Ive had one night stands and hated them!
I was honest with my ex boyfriend, after we had enough trust about intimte stuff, that i didnt want to have sex with him right away (although i wanted him extremely bad), because I liked him so deeply that I didnt want to screw up. We did some stuff after maybe 3 or 4 dates, and sex at the 5th or 6th time we saw each other. He had heard the rumors about me, yet he respected me a LOT, and accepted my reasons, and we were pretty happy together until we broke up for completely unrelated reasons.
Landry86 9y ago
Now you're giving me tingles.
cxj 9y ago
This post is mostly good except
More like 90% a physiological urge, maybe 10% ego.
This may be very hard for women to understand but we have 10x your testosterone levels or so.
lukmeg 9y ago
Ugh, you and I would never get along. I'm posting this to give a different point of view, not to berate you. If what you do works for you, great.
But for me, I prefer to know things in advance not being led on to find a "but not today" at the end. It is OK to flirt and say shit if you have spoken with me and I know what you want, a slow relationship. But if you have not been upfront about it, I am just going to assume you are playing with me and not really attracted so I'm going to bail. This is also the common advice given at trp.
Understand that I'm not against slow, traditional, "get to know without sex" start of relationship, but I have to know that is what you want upfront, so I can chose if I want to go for that or not. Otherwise I'm going to bail quick and think you are a bitch with little respect.
I guess in the hook up era traditional relationships are not the norm and it helps to be upfront.
[deleted] 9y ago
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Landry86 9y ago
This is exactly why I don't normally engage in dating altogether. I want to get to know someone thoroughly on an emotional level before committing to them and having sex. This requires making them wait, which then makes me look like a tease. You just can't win.
On the other hand, I've never actually had a guy leave me just because I'm not having sex with him, but like I said I don't date that much because it's stressful
[deleted] 9y ago
I started inviting him to social outings, letting him into my life and presenting myself as a whole human in a dynamic relationship with others in my life. Dates can be intimate and escalate but there's a distance in social situations that can be just as intimate. Hopefully he'd invite the girl into his life as well. You can share new experiences that are ill conducive to escalation. But of course, conversations will go there if he's attracted. It's best to enjoy the buildup, acknowledge it and nurture it as an ember without letting it be a full fire.
Landry86 9y ago
I really like this response. Thank you
[deleted] 9y ago
Day dates and fun outings for the 4th date. Great suggestions above as well.
Landry86 9y ago
Yes, we are in Louisiana and there is a lot to do outdoors :)
[deleted] 9y ago
Avoid situations where you could have sex. It's hard to have sex with someone in a bowling alley, at least the first time. If he's at your house watching a movie, it's a lot more reasonable for him to assume you'll be doing something sexual. My husband didn't come into my home until the two month mark.
Landry86 9y ago
Lol at least the first time.
Good advice. Thanks.
VigilantRedRooster 9y ago
This is my wheelhouse, so here's the more physical perspective, semi-NSFW. Others have covered the social aspects well. My preference is for LTRs, never same day sex or ONS. Also, I personally savor the teasing and push-pull of courting. Therefore, my dating funnel and escalation rate are calibrated for a longer-than-TRP-average journey to intimacy.
Most relationships have become intimate on the third or fourth date, not counting an optional brief zeroth-date which is a noncommittal short meeting in person. Most of my GFs found this enjoyable, some would even say "refreshing" in the current dating climate. One GF was very religious (I'm not at all); there was mutual attraction and IIRC we went on nine dates before becoming fully intimate. (We were late 40s, seeking LTR but not marriage or kids.)
Often this is not openly discussed; it is usually mentioned in both of our dating site profiles that we don't want a ONS. The escalation proceeds comfortably, with an enjoyable push-pull and escalate-cool down cycle that allows a certain amount of indulgence in partial intimacy, yet without allowing lust and horomones to be the primary drivers.
Women who did not savor the courtship never made it to LTR status. Some ejected without comment, a few complained as if something was wrong and were rejected. Those who were very sexually aggressive and pushed the pace faster than I led (very intimate touching or unilaterally shedding all clothes on date 1/2) proved to be BAD LTR material and flamed out before the 45 day mark.
Actionable advice for women who want to keep their integrity and prospective boyfriend's interest
LifeHasLag 9y ago
Hijacking to bring up the blue bean phenomenon in women. Ladies: is it something that you've also experienced? Or is it an occurance only in single women with high libidos? Prior to completely figuring out masturbation late in life, I would have severe discomfort and swelling when aroused. Masturbating regularly solves the issue.
Landry86 9y ago
I done caught the blue bean
g_e_m_anscombe 9y ago
I saw in your cross post comments that you are Catholic. If you want wait until marriage, I would tell him that upfront. It's not really about him, so if you explain it that way he is less likely to take it personally. If he is also Catholic, he should understand and be happy to wait. If he's not and he isn't willing to respect your boundaries here, I'd suggest you leave him. You might check out the book Boundaries in Dating.
In the end, there are lots of ways to express physical affection without sex. I would hold hands, kiss, cuddle, etc. but be very clear about what your physical standards are. It may be helpful to say something like "I don't do x..." Saying "I don't" makes it sound like a general policy, and indicates that you are choosy about who you get physical with. It should increase your SMV.
During the long slog between third date and marriage, my husband and I did a lot of things. We went to museums. We played board games with friends and video games with each other. We went to movies together, enjoyed BBQs, got to know each others' families, went on double dates. Sometimes we'd just sit and read together. In the end, an important part of dating is seeing whether you really like one another and enjoy each other's company. You know that you're probably not going to be sucking each other's face off when you're 80. You want to make sure that when you're 80 and sitting in rocking chairs on the porch together (or whatever you end up doing) that you will still enjoy each other's company. If you are meant to be together, you will derive a lot of joy just from being together and holding hands - even if you can't express your love in other ways yet. Use this time to find your common interests and explore them together.
refelgallo 9y ago
The only point I disagree on is that it raises SMV, I think it raises a woman's RMV. Guys generally speaking, in terms of SMV, only care what you look like and what you're willing to do. And keep in mind based on looks you at being compared to early twenty-somethings regardless of our own age.
Juk9876 9y ago
I totally agree with this advice. When I was still single and dating (before met my now wife, 3 years ago) I was not religious, and I would much prefer to know any religious restriction upfront. It is a very frustrating feeling for the man to keep going on dates and not being able to escalate. In a secular worldview, it makes no sense to not bang, so you end up assuming that she is not attracted enough. Also if she says you she will not bang because she is Catholic, she increases her chance to make it work with another Catholic, and I think it is very important to share the same worldview in a possible LTR. Nowadays both me and my wife are Catholics and it is an amazing thing to share.
Landry86 9y ago
Wonderful. Thank you.
candleelit 9y ago
I'm honest from the first date. If he wants a good girl he will stick around. I tell him I will not sleep with you quickly as I have never slept with anyone quickly. I have never had a guy I'm interested in dip out from not having sex soon enough. I let him know that this isn't a game it's just the way I am.
As the dates go on I get more and more open with my flirts and more handsy.