I'm worried about the right-wing / tradcon takeover leanings of the men's rights movement. What do you think about these words from Paul Elam, a prominent MRA? Do you agree with it or do you think it is anti-male?
Men operate in a hierarchy. We do. And it's based on effort and status. That is the reality of our existence. . . . The price of hierarchy is an elevated suicide rate, it is burnout at work, it's stress-related diseases. The other side of hierarchy is curing cancer and landing on the Moon. . . . I think that men generally speaking want to adopt a feminist-style mentality of "Oh, we recognize we're working too hard and we need to work less." I don't want any part of that, that's insane. And it's insane for society to adopt an attitude full of men working less. It's not always pretty. Again, early death, suicide, alcoholism, depression. . . . I'm very very wary of a men's movement that will adopt the idea that we recognize that men face these hardships and that the answer is to be more like women.
"Who's Better Off, Men or Women? Regarding Men #59". An Ear For Men. Paul Elam. 11 April 2020.
d_nijmegen 5y ago
I'm a bit tired of this trying to discredit your ideological opponent by distraction. Calling men's rights right wing may just show how far off the left is. If equality is right wing? What the hell does it mean to be left leaning? Aren't they the extreme now?
Oncefa2 5y ago
It's kind of odd that when it comes to gay rights, minority rights, women's rights, worker's rights, the disabled, etc, it's the left that is always in support of it.
But when it comes to men suddenly the right has something they can grab hold of and champion for.
The far left, meaning socialists and anarchists, do have a flavor of "men too" and even "white people too" since they view everything through the lens of class instead of identity politics.
r/COMPLETEANARCHY is a sub when you can see this happening on occasion.
The far left may have more in common with conservatives on this point than the more moderate "neolibs" do.
aussietoads 5y ago
Ex lefty here. I took off the leftist blinkers years ago.
Here in Australia, the left had ample opportunity to change the marriage laws to enable same sex marriage but didn't. Instead, it was a right leaning conservative government that changed the law.
rahsoft 5y ago
Do you agree with it or do you think it is anti-male?
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if you think this is anti male , then respectfully I would say you have a perception problem especially when you attempt to frame mens rights into a left/ right wing narrative.
I think that men generally speaking want to adopt a feminist-style mentality
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was it this quote that concerns you?, that you want to take on the feminists style mentality??
Because his point with that was that men tried that in the past ...and its never worked. respectfully i would say you would get torn to shreds if you adopted that approach in any MRA..
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strangely enough elam did write and article about this situation ( i think it was a year or two ago) called concern trolling...
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maybe, you best approach the whole MRA exactly as it is ..Men Rights Activism and put energy into that, otherwise we'd look no better than feminists and BLM...
Bringing politics into it betrays the MRA..
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HTH :)
Egalitarian2020 5y ago
So you think that saying "the male dominance hierarchy hurts men a lot: early death, precarity, suicide. But it makes men more productive and society benefits from it so we should embrace that system" is not anti-male?
MGTOWch 5y ago
We are men, we don’t whine about anything, asking for the gouvernement to take care of us.
Else you are a victim, likes feminists (victims of patriarchy) or BLM (victim of racism).
What is anti male is trying to make men be women. We aren’t women and shouldn’t be.
user_miki 5y ago
Tradcons invented gynocentrism.afaik they not tradcon .Let's say MRA is right leaning.What's the point ?they are not allowed to or what?Our arguments are not valid for that reason?It is smelly, for leftist noses?
You worried, means you are a concern troll.One that fake concern to shut off the debate.
SamaelET 5y ago
Tradcons are the same as feminist : women should be protected and men should willingly sacrifice themselve. The difference is that tradcons at least want to give some burden to women and honor men's sacrifices. But I don't care about honor and the burden that tradcons want men to carry is far heavier than the one they want women to carry. I am not disposable and I am not there to serve anyone else than me.
Oncefa2 5y ago
The difference between traditionalism and feminism is that in traditionalism, the sacrifices that men make for women and their families is honored and respected.
In feminism it's simply expected, because reasons, and they still hate men no matter how much they do for women.
xNOM 5y ago
No they aren't. They're the exact opposite:
Feminists: rights for women, responsibilities for men
Tradcons: whoever has the responsibilities gets the rights that go along with them
BrokenDeity1 5y ago
Nope, they're the same. They both give real world help and understanding to women and leave men to survive on "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" platitudes.
RyansPutter 5y ago
I'm more worried about the leftist leanings of this sub. The Manosphere used to be in favor of masculinity. Half of the posts on this sub now are from soy boys whining about being men.
Egalitarian2020 5y ago
"Muh soyboys." You're anti-male. Go back to r/MGTOW to whine about white genocide and pizzagate.
Rad-masc 5y ago
tradcons are garbage, feminists are trash and so called ''mras'' obsessed with biological reductionism and the ''muslim and middle eastern women are oppressed innocent angels'' are scum.
rahsoft 5y ago
I think you will find that is the behaviour of non tradcons...
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it takes all sorts to make a movement.
Better to focus on the goals rather than the people fighting for the goals otherwise MRA will be divided and conquered by feminists..
BrokenDeity1 5y ago
You losers do that to yourselves by pushing right-wing individualist BS. The mainstream MRM is a joke.
rahsoft 5y ago
You're too much like your namesake.. broken.. and bitter
go and expend your energy on something more useful
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are you going to block me as well?