Wait that's not the real graph! You can't fool me! If I remember right female attacker were less than men attacker on men victims (still men are the most raped)
I will find it.
Edit: I declare being fooled by mine self
Still wow its hard to find.
That is rape (nonconsensual penetration) and made to penetrate (nonconsensual envelopment) graphed together. Men are 99% of rapists because feminist rape researchers say...
Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.
Outside of prisons, men only perpetrate 50something% of the nonconsensual sex each year. It's just about half of the nonconsensual sex is not counted as rape in rape statistics.
It's inappropriate for the cause of feminism. This way we can say only 1 in 71 men are raped and it is almost always another man that rapes them. That gets more funding for feminists because a much higher percentage of women are "raped" and men are at fault in both cases. It's blatant data manipulation.
Did they blame it on the toxic masculinity as they always do?
Whenever they post something about men, they say it's caused by toxic masculinity and wont acknowledge how much feminism contributes to it.
Yep, and when confronted about it with photographic evidence that they indeed opposed it, they'll hit us with a No True Scot "They weren't REAL feminists, like us".
That's how it always goes. They turn around and say that phrase. Feminism is one of the most useless movements in the modern world similar to black lives matter or antifa. The unholy trio. The combined goal of these groups is to destroy the west, and violate American culture. By labeling everything that is American as racist, sexist blah blah blah, they aim to sew the seeds of insurrection and demonize the country as a whole and that is an undeniable truth.
Because they didn’t. There are just very loud minorities that didn’t.
Its not revisionism, its a lot of people misunderstanding.
Of course feminists who fought for the equality of females in society will be most vocal about female issues. That doesn’t mean their movement doesn’t fight for equality in other places. That also doesn’t mean there will be those in the movement who are quite extreme in their beliefs, look at TERFs for example.
They opposed the thing, and now that their opposition has become untenable they pretend they always supported it. You're helping them preserve their obstructionist position.
They ran out of bullets and you're saying "good on them for ceasing fire".
Yes. They are a significant obstacle to progress and letting them take credit for progress after-the-fact (or avoid blame for opposing it) allows them to continue standing in the way on every other issue.
Feminists demand a monopoly on discussion of issues like domestic violence because the Big Book of the Patriarchy™ has given them all the right answers. They then use that monopoly to silence men and engage in the circular reasoning that they must be correct because no one else is talking. When people decide they don't want to buy what feminists are selling feminists pretend they were always selling something else to retain that monopoly on discussion.
Atleast there giving light to the issue even if they are denying they didn't before.
Because their previous position has become untenable. They are not giving light to the issue. They are scurrying away to hide now that the light is on so decent people don't see what they were doing before.
I call what they're doing "woodworking". Whenever the original feminist position on an issue becomes unpopular among their base their loudest voices temporarily disappear into the woodwork and other feminists come out and claim the first group never existed. They've done it over and over again and so have maintained the appearance of progressivism despite ostensibly being on every side of every issue.
Real feminists (those who are for real equality) never did, but the feminazi scum that claimed the name for themselves did. It's just a bummer that the latter has become the rule instead of the exception and poisoned everything.
We usually call those feminists dictionary feminists because they are well meaning suckers who actually believe that the dictionary definition of feminism involving equality has ever been about equality.
Feminism is about female supremacists, just like BLM is about black supremacists. Egalitarianism is about TRUE equality, just like All Lives Matter is.
Men are pretty rarely "raped" in official statistics and almost always by other men. This is due to data manipulation by respected feminists that get awards for their work.
For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced penetration of the victim in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.)
She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't. A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"
You see she has been saying this for decades and was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g.
Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (June 1993) Page: 206
Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.
She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There was a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man.
Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, and 2015 NISVS studies.
an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey
and
The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate.
vs
an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey
and
Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators
For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators. For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%), sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%),
So if made to penetrate happens each year as much as rape then by most people's assumed definition of rape then men are half of rape victims. If 99% of rapists are men and 83% of "made to penetrators" are women ... then an estimated 42% of the perpetrators of nonconsensual sex in 2011 were women.
But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men and nearly all the men were raped by other men...
And before you think that was just one study, it wasn't. The prior year numbers have been really close between the sexes most years.
data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were “made to penetrate” someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.
And non CDC study...
A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.
a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.
And another non CDC study...
National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”
when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).
Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men".
Read this and watch the video, you will find it very helpful. Its by a professor of DV, she explains how feminist stratgey on gendering DV to women only works, and what techniques they used in otder to do this.... and how they kept moving the goal posts to make sure it was gendered to women (she explains how after feminsits finally had to give into the fact that DV was common by female perps and even gender symetterical, they invented the coercive control model to show how DV done by women doesn't count as DV as it is not under coercive control.... the kicker is though that now femnist own research is showing coercive control is gender symetrical too!! So they are using old tactics again)
Important point, its not just "feminazi scum" that thought men couldnt be sexually abused, its a good chuck of society. Lots of people, just regular men and women, think that men cant be victims (unless the abuser is also male).
People are stupid and believe everything you say to them. So if you call yourself a feminist, people will trust you more. Tell them that a man can't be raped cause they have a boner, they'll believe it without a question. Look at the average intelligence of the population, and then remember, half is dumber than that. And thats why we need to stop calling them feminists and start calling them feminazis
Isn’t that how everything is? The most extreme and loud examples become labeled the norm? That’s our society and the tactic of straw manning, promoting a hasty generalization and false dichotomies against legitimate arguments.
It's funny because the "feminazi scum" were the only ones in power.
When all your "real feminists" are just sitting back saying "hey, not all feminists!" while the feminazis are actually doing something, it's fair to say that these "feminazis" represent the movement as a whole.
Radicalism is on the rise everywhere. It is also the only thing that will get you somewhere. Real feminist are there, although maybe not a lot, but they are kept silent, out of the sensationcentered media. What we see, especially in this subreddit, is all the bad things. It's not difficult to lose fate in a group if all you see are the bad ones.
So if "real" feminists according to your logic is not radical about hatred against men (from radical feminists) then it won't get "real" feminists somewhere.... Which is more or less what the person above you said...
Radical feminists doing something and the "real" ones just sitting back and using NAFALT.
Controversial statements contained within Trigger Warning
Same with LGBT people I have known when it comes to racism. Basically the 'Good for Me, Not for Thee' mentality.
Both sets of people are/were fighting for civil rights. LGBT should have been the most outspoken allies for BLM movement. But haven't been from my personal experiences as well as reported media experiences.
Just shows that white people get theirs first... (Just look at per capita LGBT vs People of African descent who are Americans)
I have my vodka googles on tonight, prove me wrong!
I think the previous person was just trying to explain that a extremist subgroup of a movement does not illegitimate the whole group. There are some Men’s rights activists that believe women should be subservient but I don’t believe all men’s rights activists think this way. It’s a separate group of people who use the name to justify their ignorant beliefs.
That’s fair. Feminism did start as a direct response to a patriarchal society. And with each wave came more perspective. The third wave (or whatever it’s evolved into) that we’re in now focuses a bit more on intersectionality, womanism and other perspectives and acknowledges the lens that some views comes from.
Yes you’ll find white women (and others) who still look at it as a fight against patriarchy specifically but there are more people who see it as a fight against systems of oppression whether that’s race, gender, socio-economics etc etc. Each is split a bit in their processing and thinking whether it’s radical, socialist or reformist in nature.
In some ways feminism as a concept is in period of studying what’s happened before. Thankfully that lens includes the acknowledgment that systems of oppression impact us ALL differently but we are all for the most part victim to it - including men.
Second wave feminism in the 1970s was when the far left commandeered feminism. The first wave in 1900 were just called suffragettes not feminists.
The "perspective" you refer to with each tightening focus on identity politics just reduced the target group from all men to white men to heterosexual white men to professional heterosexual white men.
Now the majority of supporters I see at far left rallies are professional heterosexual white men. That's why antifa can't actually fight.
Since 2010 the post of oppressor has been vacant and we are just observing the purity spiralling neomarxist victims all trying to distance themselves furthest from the post, like all ambitious politicians denying they don't really want a shot at the title during an election year.
Good points. I would add to your point in your second paragraph. In addition to tightening the focus on specific types of men (women wanting more CEO positions but not lower rung jobs that many men also do) I would say that as the feminist movement made traction on certain issues, they identified new territory to target in order to get more and more favor and advantage. That's how we get to the point now where women today are offered boat loads of money and advantages from school to family to career. It also seems like this hunger for "more" can never be satisfied.
Feminism when it first emerged dates back to the 1800s in France and that absolutely was in response to a society where women were not getting a fair shake at having the same lifestyles and livelihoods afforded to them the way men were.
You can see where feminism meets identity politics and how the concept of privilege comes into play. And yes that is where the “target group”of oppressors starts to be identified as white Christian heterosexual males. But it is also pointed out that the so called target group emerges out of an overall white supremacist societal structure (a society built by white people and upholds certain ideals and ways of life and in so doing excludes those that do not conform, have different cultures and uphold different ideals).
So if that’s true the people who benefit the most and yield the most power would be men, Christian, white and heterosexual. And in order for that position to be held or upheld there are groups of people who are oppressed in making and keeping that reality. Because the very nature of a society that is supremacist in nature wouldn’t willing make space for others to co-exist or allow for others to excel within that structure at its expense.
I disagree that the post of oppressor is vacant but rather becoming identified with growing specificity. And that goes back to my point that we are all oppressed in some way but privileges can make us blind to the ways that we are not oppressed and the ways others may be oppressed.
There are no oppressors nor oppressed in western society. The west is not ruled by Christian white heterosexual men. This is all in your head.
From the black civil rights movement in the 60s, feminism in the 70s, gay rights 80s, disabled 90s, trans 00s, everybody has had more than their fair share of the cake.
The only group who not have a rise in rights nor a reduction in responsabilites in the west are heterosexual white men.
This is now the group who have waited their turn long enough. Particularly white working class men, remember them? The proletariat. The ones who didn't revolt in 1914 but went to war so that working class men and women could vote.
White people stopped slavery in the west, the only masters now are black or brown in Africa and Asia.
There are no white people throwing gays of roofs anywhere in the world.
Modern white middle class women of European descent are the most privileged majority demographic to have existed in history.
You could have just said thankyou and stopped while the going was good but you guys had to keep going.
Without you, Trump would never have happened nor brexit, not the rise of right wing populism. Nor the impending end of your overly effective victim culture.
I'm just sitting back with popcorn watching the shit show.
Weird, I only found out about the 'good feminists' existing from the internet. I have only ever seen them push for sexist bullshit under the guise of equality. They've always seemed like a unicorn (the 'good ones') to me.
Ironically, whenever I ask people for good feminists they always cite the feminists that IS against mainstream 3rd/4th wave feminism like Errin Pizzey and Christina Sommers.
No, we should adapt to feminazis as a new term. Labels are important, and feminism still holds the "for equality"-message. I don't think that "egalitarianism" would take of as a term. To me it sounds a bit pedantic, but feel free to disagree.
I'm not against the consensus that modern day feminism is bad and misguided, but you will never make substantial change or impact anyone through means of hate or fear. Going around calling everyone feminazis will surely do nothing but turn people off from your way of thinking before you even have the chance to explain yourself.
nahh. if feminists ever cared they wouldnt have oppressed men like this in the first place. theyre like bank robbers trying to become friends again After spending all the money they have stolen from you
If at any point in time you ever thought men were oppressed you need to pull your head out of your ass and look the fuck around. Your comment was so off base it required no point to be recognized as a completely asinine statement.
The first clue that it doesn’t is that you don’t actually provide any examples. Of anything.
The second is that your post is almost literally, ‘yes, but they’re not the real feminists!’ Which you’ll notice is only one synonym and a subject swap away from being the literal textbook example of ‘no true Scotsman.’
The article gives the counterexample of a pacifist. (no pacifist would stab someone. But I know one who did. Then he is not a real pacifist.)
A real feminist strives for equality, it's literally the definition of feminism. so when i say that "feminists" who say kill all men, men can't be raped, the patriarchy suppresses women etc, are not real feminists but feminazis I don't think that's a logical fallacy.
I don't have time nor energy to provide u of an example of a real feminist. I remember an interview where Jordan Peterson was discussing his popularity with young men, where a feminist acknowledged! the problems of young males. It's not much, I know, but ull have to go on that.
when i say that "feminists" who say kill all men, men can't be raped, the patriarchy suppresses women etc, are not real feminists but feminazis I don't think that's a logical fallacy.
Then why does Mary Koss get awards rather than criticism from feminist organizations? Why do others copy her methodologies and cite her work rather than gathering gender neutral rape statistics?
This is a provably false statement. Affirmative action - advocated by feminists enshrined in law and policy easily disproves this. Just because feminism says "feminism is for equality" it does not automatically follow that feminism is for equality in reality. It's like North Korea saying it's a democratic country or Muslims saying Islam is a religion of peace. All of which are demonstrably false.
Here’s something to think about when you’re trying to go to sleep tonight.
If you’d need to do research to find a single example of ‘a real feminist’ and can’t name a single one off the top of your head, what does that say about your concept of real feminism?
If your perception of feminists is based on right wing or anti-SJW/anti-feminist depictions then you might think this, but I want to throw in here I'm a feminist, have seen a lot of feminist content, and have never seen anyone say anything akin to "men can't be raped" etc. I'm sure there are some people who do say shit like that, but they don't represent feminism as a movement IMO (much like how I'd imagine most people would say incels don't represent men's rights activism).
Feminist content and people I've seen usually advocate for gender specific issues for men, women, trans people, non-binary people, everyone.
As an example of what I'm talking about, feminists demanded default mother custody of children in the case of divorce (and continue to oppose equally shared parenting to this day). Do you know what rank-and-file feminists say when confronted with this blatant sexism? "That's the fault of the patriarchy because women are traditionally seen as responsible for child-rearing."
Feminist content and people I've seen usually advocate for gender specific issues for men, women, trans people, non-binary people, everyone.
And how does The Duluth Model of Domestic Violence, The Tender Years Doctrine, and N.O.W opposing Shared Parenting advocate on gender specific issues for men?
Are you saying that the massive feminist organizations, the ones in charge of lobbying and the ones influencing academics, laws and public discourse "don't represent the movement"? The major feminist figures which constantly block pro-male legislature don't represent the movement?
I'm sure you represent the movement, a random redditor, am I right? That's not just "No true scotsman" anymore, that's blatant dishonesty.
When a sexist feminist position becomes untenable feminists pretend they never held that position. Thus, they remain legitimate in the eyes of average people despite being the ones responsible for obstructing equality and having myriad other sexist positions.
I think movements act like pendulums, to gather support initially they have to swing hard in one direction with momentum and a narrow focus (ie “Listen to us, Sexual Assault is serious and happens more than u think”) and so it leaves little room for nuance. Then there’s a backlash because there is always nuance in every situation and people will eventually call out the gaps that have been left behind. Eventually over time things settle and rational thinking can rise to the top.
No not at all, the vast majority of feminist representation have been saying this all along. This sub, and other similar circles will cherry pick the easy dumb quotes to vilify what is really a very good movement.
Honestly, take a breather from this sub, you'll have a lot more meaningful support with feminism than what is very evidently thinly veiled sexism and women hating on this sub and its ilk. (r/mtgow r/redpill etc.)
Yeah I have noticed that, it's about time it happened. I'm gonna be honest I think it is because the media is focusing on mental health a lot more lately, and people have had so much time to themselves to think and research, that some have realized they may not be going about their ideals and such correctly.
Great, now let's see them actually stick to their word and have major feminist organizations codify this in law! Enough with the "women can't abuse men" legislature that still exists today.
I just want to point out that they haven't said women can be rapists, they only said men can be victims too. It is quite an advamcement non the less.
Edit: spelling :)
Feminism has never been anti men. Feminism is a huge umbrella term for a myriad of different perspectives.
What the issue is that people seem to think radical feminism = feminism, when it doesn't meant that.
I'm a neo feminist: gender roles are a thing. Each gender has different attributes that are favourable in certain situations (women as care givers because it's a hardwired thing, and men are naturally stronger and suitable for various manual tasks etc.) It also agrees that gender is a social construct (sex isn't the same as gender) which means that men can do the roles of women and vice versa. E.g you'll see some men who can fit into "feminine" roles like nursery worker/primary school teacher, and some women who can lift 60kg of cement bags on her shoulders on a job site without breaking a sweat. Those are crude examples but it explains the point. Neo feminism will always state the inequalities that men face as well.
Then you've got black feminism, Marxist feminism etc. that revolves round specific things in society that has inequality at its roots.
9/10 feminists believe men are treated terribly as victims of sex crimes, and domestic violence etc.
The issue is with entitled wenches who, when it happens to them, use their female status to game the system when it comes to the end of relationships/marriages with things like alimony, child support, staying in the home. It's a pluralism that I do not ever condone and believe is right. You can't have your cake and eat it. You either want equality or not. But they're not feminists, they're narcissistic and toxic.
I had to do a module at uni on gender studies as part of my sociology degree, and we never spent the whole time bashing men and saying how hard done by women were. Radical feminism wasn't even mentioned, except to use as a point of reference of how fucking crazy people can be. Even in textbooks, it gets a small entry in comparison to other feminist theory.
I've never taught feminism to my students to be anything like radicals because that's how you disengage an entire class when you're talking about gender politics.
The biggest injustice men and women suffer is to use the fanatics as benchmarks and argue against each other when that's not the reality of beliefs of most. Are all men enablers of toxic masculinity? Fuck no, that's fucking stupid. So why are all feminists radicals that want the death of all men? It's a trope that's old, tired and boring. You're better off flogging a dead horse.
The same can be said for LGBTQ, being left or right wing politically. It's literally a spectrum - it's not black and white. So instead of pointing fingers and saying you're this and that, open the discussion by actually going out and speaking to people you think you hate and do some research into what it is you think you hate.
This is false. All versions of feminism subscribe to the patriarchy theory, which states: "Women are oppressed and men are oppressors".
As a fundamental principle of your religion, You cannot get anymore anti-men than that.
So instead of pointing fingers and saying you're this and that, open the discussion by actually going out and speaking to people you think you hate and do some research into what it is you think you hate.
Completely disingenuous and dangerous action to take. Feminists will ensure that you lose your livelihood and your life should you even attempt to do this.
During the Holocaust, there were Nazi prison guards who secretly helped victims escape from the concentration camps. Not all people working for the Nazi government actually agreed with the bad things it was doing.
However, Nazism is generally regarded as a bad thing because by and large, the people associated with it were bad people who did bad things in the name of Nazism. Given that the majority of people associated with feminism are bad people who do bad things in the name of feminism, it is understandably going to be difficult for you to convince most reasonable people to change their negative perception of feminism. You may happen to be one of the few good feminists, but that doesn't change the fact that feminism is by and large associated with bad things.
What they say don't really matter. They are gonna say that then say in the next post that the world doesn't need men for anything except for their dicks which is exactly what they did before.
Glad to see that feminists are starting to talk about both men and women's issues. Feminazis who hijacked the movement really gave it a bad name, and thankfully it looks like more people are waking up and realizing that feminazis aren't feminists and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Feminists themselves claim they’re the ones who fight for men’s issues. In fact, they often use that to argue that a men’s movement isn’t necessary; feminism will take care of men’s issues.
Hum excuse me. Why was MRA created again?
And shouldn't feminism talk about men issues to? Because that's in the definition of it.
What's your point?
Are your saying that feminism shouldn't take men's case? Why?
MRA is created to focus on the perspective of the men’s side, while feminism is from the perspective of women.
Now I’m all for that everybody help everybody, but if you want to say that Feminism should also fight for the male perspective, then the inverse should also be applicable (which when looking at most of the posts aren’t the case).
Thank you. You just proven that your vision of feminism is more on the women's side. So not for all sexes like in its definition. I don't think you understand how those groups work or should work. Feminism was (not always) for egality of all. But it apparently failed to do so and took a side. Men's rights in the other hand counter balances it. It is not primarily an attack on feminism to point at its failures in equality. Feminist attacked the group painting it however they wanted it to downplay the movement. So they responded. If you want a movement that focuses only on pure equality, equity, and justice search egalitarianism.
In the... definition?
Feminism is a range of social movements, political movements, and ideologies that aim to define, establish, and achieve the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes
If ‘equality of the sexes’ is formulated based on the premise that one side is disproportionately misrepresented, then that’s the side one focus on, and not the other.
It’s like how Black Lives Matter doesn’t negate all life, but are focused on the ones being unfairly treated.
Feminism doesn’t mean men’s rights aren’t important or doesn’t exists. They just aren’t focusing on them, because they are focusing on the female side.
Or the current one : the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes...
So can you explain to me why does feminists claim to take in account men's issues? Or is that a lie
I can also google and find plenty of people, articles and videos of people claiming the earth is flat, vaccines don’t work or that G5 towers causes corona.
Hardly makes it the case.
So I was asking you for some specific credible source to what you are claiming.
Feminist? WHAT?! I followed that account for a while, they were some of the most disgusting misandrists. Great to see that they decided to steer away a bit! Faith restored.
I read some of them and got my mood spoiled.There were illogical arguments like "Women get harassed more so men are privileged".That is indeed true,but that does not prove privilege lol...
So, are you also going to point out that you had to swipe past a picture that said "Stop teaching women how to dress. Instead, teach men how to respect women" on that exact same post in order to get to this?
Absolutely. I'm glad people are starting to wake up and realise this. I really appreciate the amount of people speaking out about the way we view male victims of rape and abuse.
Except it isn't. The account is full of contradictions, objectifying men and more stuff. They only do this to gain a good light to people who haven't seen it before. I've seen them do this pattern a lot. First they make a post saying body-shaming is always wrong then makes fun of small-dicked men.
Don't need a fucking feminist to tell me that, neither do I want to hear it from them. Feminism has caused nothing but bullshit against men. The killing of men, justified abuse against men, body-shaming men (which can be seen in their latest posts), and of course the misandristic theories that men need no movement or support because we "liVe iN a PatrIarcHy". I don't know about my fellow MRAs, but I'm not waiting for feminists to change or to fucking tell me men can be raped too since MANY feminist leaders already literally claimed sexist bullshit like "men can't be raped". Abolish the movement, that's how they can change and start acting like actual humans. Almost every feminist WILL tell you "oh I do care about men and they can be victims" but believing their words despite their contradictory actions makes you wrong and easily manipulated.
They do talk about men once in a while,but they only cover sexual assault and emotional abuse by the "patriarchy"...
Even after that,you see comments like "Stop discussing about men here,let them have a movement of their own,feminism is about advocacy of women's rights on grounds of equality".I saw this exact comment on one post about male sexual assault victims.
That comment had 800+ likes and the comment that explained her about "feminism is about equality" had 500+.
The post for sure had less likes than other posts they made.But at least,this proved that not all feminists hate men. Although they may not talk about biased laws,but they do care about men.
Feminists like Christina Hoff Sommers often talk about men's issues.
The representatives of feminists have attracted many misandrists and young people to make them believe that somehow they are the only ones facing issues.
This causes the good feminists to be silenced.I have a feminist friend who acknowledges the fact that 53% rape allegations in my country are false(here,dating is a taboo,in one state 45% rape cases were filed by parents after they discovered that their daughter had a boyfriend),while also acknowledging that many cases go unreported.
The representatives of feminists have attracted many misandrists and young people to make them believe that somehow they are the only ones facing issues.
This causes the good feminists to be silenced.
Why? Good feminists can speak up just as loudly. Indeed, we’re often told the vast majority of feminists are the good ones. If that’s true, then good feminists have an even louder voice. They should have no problem shouting down the bad ones. But they don’t.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
(That quote has been attributed to both Edmund Burke and that brilliant, brilliant thinker John Stuart Mill. Both wrote during a time when “men” was commonly used. “Women” can be substituted in this instance — the principle is the same.)
I’ve heard many more women than men say such things. To return your question, then, what are your thoughts on these women who make these types of comments?
Well, of course a lot of boys would be okay with it if they have sex with the hot teacher, but a lot of girls would also like to have sex with the sexy gymnastics teacher. My sister said she had a crush on hers. But I do believe that boys and girls can both get raped even if it's by a teacher they like physically and emotionally.
Lads, take caution before you drink their koolaid. Not to say that this isn’t genuine but I feel like a lot of feminists will first preach their bigotry and hatred against men constantly and when they start to get called out, act like they’re on our side suddenly by posting stuff like this here-and-there just to prevent themselves from looking bad.
There is no matter of "not real feminist, real feminists just want eguality" peopole who really want eguality are not feminists. Feminism has never been a matter of equality
You can't really match with this ideological movement if you are for the eguality
This empty statement is nothing but feminist speak for toxic masculinity. We will only see progress when feminists say explicitly women are also perpetrators. Then we can talk about repealing sexist (against men) law and policy.
This useless platitude is exactly the same as saying "feminism is for equality". Neither of which have any real meaning as they do not mean what the plain reading of the words say.
feminists will pay lip service occasionally towards these issues. but their actions speak louder than words. no resources spent towards male victims, no demand for more male domestic violence centers, college feminist "scholars" disrupting men's rights conventions. even this instagram page will maybe make a pretentious post every 3-4 months or so, but the vast majority is propaganda that paints assault and domestic violence and mainly female issues to blame on men
If you want resources for male victims, male domestic violence center and such, then males should make them. Minorities don’t go around building resources and centers for underprivileged kids so that white people can come and complain why they didn’t do it for them too
your mistake is assuming feminists culture allows that to happen. feminist "scholars" and professionals routinely protest at and interrupt men's issues conventions, male victim clinics, etc.
whenever men need help, there is always a feminist there to stop it. for instance, when the 08 recession hit, male-dominated professions were hardest hit (such as blue collar jobs) while women faced a far more mild response. Obama's stimulus plan thus conformed according to that to issue more stimulus to male-dominated industries since those industries were hurt the most. feminists immediately interjected and obama eventually relented to political pressure, pushing for more funding for female-dominated professions like nursing.
(and yea, ik washington examiner is ass, but the points in the article still stand)
the same things apply for male abuse shelters. feminists can *maybe* tolerate 1-2 shelters for men, but if men actually started to build more shelters to match actual abuse demographics, feminists would call it a "male takeover" of "female" issues
I see, I myself have issues with feminists as a black person but I can see where they are super hypocritical. I still don’t think you can label a whole movement because of a subgroup but that subgroup of feminists who don’t support male victims and aren’t aware of men’s issues suck and need to be put in their place. Thank you for sharing your perspective and I just want to say that logical, empathetic people (women and men) understand that men and women both have struggles that need to be addressed as well
Too late. I've been anti-feminist for 20 years.
One person's post is not changing my viewpoint unless the majority of the movement do something similar or more all the time.
And also do something about the likes of Clementine Ford or Andrea Dworkin. Men have lost jobs or got a public "flogging" or doxxed for something far less worse.
That's only true if you use the UK's definition of "rape" (forced penetration), which by definition only a male perpetrator can perform. When you count "made to penetrate" too, suddenly the graph becomes equally sized.
Ive been assaulted by women of many different ages and demographics. What were my options for retaliation? I could fight and be sent to prison or go to others and be laughed at (by men and women). If ive been assaulted by a man (which i dont remember anything untoward) i could knock that fool out and be done with it.
I'm saying the fact that Men are far and away the most likely group to commit sexual assault, and why that is is worth investigating if you want to protect victims.
I don't think it's unreasonable to consider part of the problem to be cultural.
-But Gender based and sexual violence disproportionately effects women
-Perpetrators are mostly men
-check the stats
Male on Male violence has nothing to do with women
I've checked the rape stats. ALL the rape stats. Not just where the victim is penetrated by the perpetrator.
/r/MensRights/comments/hk0f25/finally/fwr1zy2/
Be careful everyone.
When they are admitting stuff...they put it on their face as a mask and continue to do all their evil things....and this time..we won't be able to show their straight forward BS done by them to them.
Firstly they haven't said that women can be persp and I doubt they will. What is their intention also? Feminsits had some interest in male suicide so they could push toxic masculinity narratives to push away real reasons men comit suicide ... e.g. family courts, milatry service, homelessness, DV, lack of mens funding.
(Video is by a professor of DV, she explains how feminist stratgey on gendering DV to women only works, and what techniques they used in otder to do this.... and how they kept moving the goal posts to make sure it was gendered to women (she explains how after feminsits finally had to give into the fact that DV was common by female perps and even gender symetterical, they invented the coercive control model to show how DV done by women doesn't count as DV as it is not under coercive control.... the kicker is though that now femnist own research is showing coercive control is gender symetrical too!! So they are using old tactics again)
benderXX 4y ago
So what you are saying is that we are human .....
TXJohn83 4y ago
I will believe it as soon as they support my ex getting arrested, for blowing me while i was passed out drunk.
waterhasnocalories 4y ago
Be prepared for comments like: true though most men get assaulted by other men which doesn’t really count then.
secheadlessonds 4y ago
They always find a way to make us the villains
KnightWulfy 4y ago
Been assaulted by both. Mostly women.
Geeekus 4y ago
This is why I keep this graph handy.
zaapas 4y ago
Wait that's not the real graph! You can't fool me! If I remember right female attacker were less than men attacker on men victims (still men are the most raped) I will find it. Edit: I declare being fooled by mine self Still wow its hard to find.
jarNO_WAY 4y ago
More sexual assault against males than against females? That's new to me
waterhasnocalories 4y ago
Think about jails my friend.
pete7201 4y ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jk7sWrZPOBA
duhhhh 4y ago
That is rape (nonconsensual penetration) and made to penetrate (nonconsensual envelopment) graphed together. Men are 99% of rapists because feminist rape researchers say...
Outside of prisons, men only perpetrate 50something% of the nonconsensual sex each year. It's just about half of the nonconsensual sex is not counted as rape in rape statistics.
NUGGet3562 4y ago
Okay that's really dumb. Why the heck is it "inappropriate"? It's perfectly appropriate!
duhhhh 4y ago
It's inappropriate for the cause of feminism. This way we can say only 1 in 71 men are raped and it is almost always another man that rapes them. That gets more funding for feminists because a much higher percentage of women are "raped" and men are at fault in both cases. It's blatant data manipulation.
/r/MensRights/comments/hk0f25/finally/fwr1zy2/
kangaroo312 4y ago
I was so disappointed when Joe Rogan had a whole bit about this in one of his recent specials.
cubingstorm012 4y ago
Ok, this is woke. I think that's how that term is meant to be used.
NidoBurrito 4y ago
It’s good that the main feminist Instagram account is posting this
___yj_ 4y ago
Did they blame it on the toxic masculinity as they always do? Whenever they post something about men, they say it's caused by toxic masculinity and wont acknowledge how much feminism contributes to it.
thursdayfridays 4y ago
What is your understanding of the term toxic masculinity?
clurr170 4y ago
Right.....
L0SERlambda 4y ago
More and more feminists lately have seemingly been slowly turning around.
lasciate 4y ago
Get ready for the "feminists never opposed this" revisionism.
rahsoft 4y ago
get ready for NAFLT !
ChimkenNunget 4y ago
Yep, and when confronted about it with photographic evidence that they indeed opposed it, they'll hit us with a No True Scot "They weren't REAL feminists, like us".
DaVinciofDeath 4y ago
That's how it always goes. They turn around and say that phrase. Feminism is one of the most useless movements in the modern world similar to black lives matter or antifa. The unholy trio. The combined goal of these groups is to destroy the west, and violate American culture. By labeling everything that is American as racist, sexist blah blah blah, they aim to sew the seeds of insurrection and demonize the country as a whole and that is an undeniable truth.
TheKobraSnake 4y ago
I wouldn't really mind that, as long as they actually acted like it
bjv2001 4y ago
Because they didn’t. There are just very loud minorities that didn’t.
Its not revisionism, its a lot of people misunderstanding.
Of course feminists who fought for the equality of females in society will be most vocal about female issues. That doesn’t mean their movement doesn’t fight for equality in other places. That also doesn’t mean there will be those in the movement who are quite extreme in their beliefs, look at TERFs for example.
Jayce_likes_beans 4y ago
I'd rather have that then what we have now
lasciate 4y ago
They opposed the thing, and now that their opposition has become untenable they pretend they always supported it. You're helping them preserve their obstructionist position.
They ran out of bullets and you're saying "good on them for ceasing fire".
SirBlankFace 4y ago
Oh i already got sources up the ass for when that happens.
jacobrennie1510 4y ago
Please please share
jub18 4y ago
I dunno, if the change happens. It's worth it.
lasciate 4y ago
Feminists opposed the change until it happened against their best efforts. Giving them credit for it allows them to continue to oppose change.
[deleted] 4y ago
[deleted]
lasciate 4y ago
Yes. They are a significant obstacle to progress and letting them take credit for progress after-the-fact (or avoid blame for opposing it) allows them to continue standing in the way on every other issue.
Feminists demand a monopoly on discussion of issues like domestic violence because the Big Book of the Patriarchy™ has given them all the right answers. They then use that monopoly to silence men and engage in the circular reasoning that they must be correct because no one else is talking. When people decide they don't want to buy what feminists are selling feminists pretend they were always selling something else to retain that monopoly on discussion.
Because their previous position has become untenable. They are not giving light to the issue. They are scurrying away to hide now that the light is on so decent people don't see what they were doing before.
I call what they're doing "woodworking". Whenever the original feminist position on an issue becomes unpopular among their base their loudest voices temporarily disappear into the woodwork and other feminists come out and claim the first group never existed. They've done it over and over again and so have maintained the appearance of progressivism despite ostensibly being on every side of every issue.
Mystical__flame 4y ago
Fair point. I'll delete my comment
kylevk02 4y ago
Real feminists (those who are for real equality) never did, but the feminazi scum that claimed the name for themselves did. It's just a bummer that the latter has become the rule instead of the exception and poisoned everything.
omegaphallic 4y ago
We usually call those feminists dictionary feminists because they are well meaning suckers who actually believe that the dictionary definition of feminism involving equality has ever been about equality.
L0SERlambda 4y ago
You're right.
Behold_PaleHorse 4y ago
It’s the rule because their prevalence on social media. Keyboard activists are cancer no matter what they believe in.
valenin 4y ago
See? There it is! Right on schedule!
SsoulBlade 4y ago
Real feminists are a dying breed. The likes of Errin Pizzey and Christina Sommers is already ousted by the mainstream feminists.
Real feminists are as scarce as chicken teeth. The majority of the toxic one are their mouth piece now.
Which is why I always said the movement is rotten to its core.
citerunner 4y ago
If you are from Scotland I need to see some certification to check your authenticity.
XasthurianHorror 4y ago
Feminism is about female supremacists, just like BLM is about black supremacists. Egalitarianism is about TRUE equality, just like All Lives Matter is.
duhhhh 4y ago
Men are pretty rarely "raped" in official statistics and almost always by other men. This is due to data manipulation by respected feminists that get awards for their work.
For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced penetration of the victim in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.)
She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't. A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"
You see she has been saying this for decades and was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g.
Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (June 1993) Page: 206
Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf
She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There was a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man.
Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, and 2015 NISVS studies.
As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm
and
vs
and
So if made to penetrate happens each year as much as rape then by most people's assumed definition of rape then men are half of rape victims. If 99% of rapists are men and 83% of "made to penetrators" are women ... then an estimated 42% of the perpetrators of nonconsensual sex in 2011 were women.
But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men and nearly all the men were raped by other men...
And before you think that was just one study, it wasn't. The prior year numbers have been really close between the sexes most years.
2010 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/cdc_nisvs_ipv_report_2013_v17_single_a.pdf
2012 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf
2015 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf
Scientific American - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known
data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were “made to penetrate” someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.
And non CDC study...
A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.
The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/
Another non CDC study...
a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.
And another non CDC study...
National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”
Time - http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers
when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).
Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men".
CoolMintMC 4y ago
Bless you for all this information.
I implore you to share it every where you get the chance.
I hope you have a good day!✨
mhandanna 4y ago
Read this and watch the video, you will find it very helpful. Its by a professor of DV, she explains how feminist stratgey on gendering DV to women only works, and what techniques they used in otder to do this.... and how they kept moving the goal posts to make sure it was gendered to women (she explains how after feminsits finally had to give into the fact that DV was common by female perps and even gender symetterical, they invented the coercive control model to show how DV done by women doesn't count as DV as it is not under coercive control.... the kicker is though that now femnist own research is showing coercive control is gender symetrical too!! So they are using old tactics again)
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/hke0mh/professor\_nicola\_grahamkevan\_this\_is\_most/
ProfessorChuckFinley 4y ago
Important point, its not just "feminazi scum" that thought men couldnt be sexually abused, its a good chuck of society. Lots of people, just regular men and women, think that men cant be victims (unless the abuser is also male).
kylevk02 4y ago
People are stupid and believe everything you say to them. So if you call yourself a feminist, people will trust you more. Tell them that a man can't be raped cause they have a boner, they'll believe it without a question. Look at the average intelligence of the population, and then remember, half is dumber than that. And thats why we need to stop calling them feminists and start calling them feminazis
StrokeMyAxe 4y ago
Isn’t that how everything is? The most extreme and loud examples become labeled the norm? That’s our society and the tactic of straw manning, promoting a hasty generalization and false dichotomies against legitimate arguments.
eldritchpunx 4y ago
I heard a saying awhile ago that I really enjoyed
The Empty Cans Rattle The Loudest.
kylevk02 4y ago
Now thats a sentence I like
morerokk 4y ago
It's funny because the "feminazi scum" were the only ones in power.
When all your "real feminists" are just sitting back saying "hey, not all feminists!" while the feminazis are actually doing something, it's fair to say that these "feminazis" represent the movement as a whole.
kylevk02 4y ago
Radicalism is on the rise everywhere. It is also the only thing that will get you somewhere. Real feminist are there, although maybe not a lot, but they are kept silent, out of the sensationcentered media. What we see, especially in this subreddit, is all the bad things. It's not difficult to lose fate in a group if all you see are the bad ones.
SsoulBlade 4y ago
So if "real" feminists according to your logic is not radical about hatred against men (from radical feminists) then it won't get "real" feminists somewhere.... Which is more or less what the person above you said...
Radical feminists doing something and the "real" ones just sitting back and using NAFALT.
SquirmyBurrito 4y ago
At what point do we stop making excuses for their shittiness? Just accept that some feminists don't actually want equality.
smart-username 4y ago
It’s the difference between liberal feminism and radical feminism. Libfems want equality, but radfems don’t.
BobmaiKock 4y ago
Controversial statements contained within Trigger Warning
Same with LGBT people I have known when it comes to racism. Basically the 'Good for Me, Not for Thee' mentality.
Both sets of people are/were fighting for civil rights. LGBT should have been the most outspoken allies for BLM movement. But haven't been from my personal experiences as well as reported media experiences.
Just shows that white people get theirs first... (Just look at per capita LGBT vs People of African descent who are Americans)
I have my vodka googles on tonight, prove me wrong!
apostate99 4y ago
I think the previous person was just trying to explain that a extremist subgroup of a movement does not illegitimate the whole group. There are some Men’s rights activists that believe women should be subservient but I don’t believe all men’s rights activists think this way. It’s a separate group of people who use the name to justify their ignorant beliefs.
xgreyia 4y ago
That’s fair. Feminism did start as a direct response to a patriarchal society. And with each wave came more perspective. The third wave (or whatever it’s evolved into) that we’re in now focuses a bit more on intersectionality, womanism and other perspectives and acknowledges the lens that some views comes from.
Yes you’ll find white women (and others) who still look at it as a fight against patriarchy specifically but there are more people who see it as a fight against systems of oppression whether that’s race, gender, socio-economics etc etc. Each is split a bit in their processing and thinking whether it’s radical, socialist or reformist in nature.
In some ways feminism as a concept is in period of studying what’s happened before. Thankfully that lens includes the acknowledgment that systems of oppression impact us ALL differently but we are all for the most part victim to it - including men.
MyFatThumb 4y ago
Second wave feminism in the 1970s was when the far left commandeered feminism. The first wave in 1900 were just called suffragettes not feminists.
The "perspective" you refer to with each tightening focus on identity politics just reduced the target group from all men to white men to heterosexual white men to professional heterosexual white men.
Now the majority of supporters I see at far left rallies are professional heterosexual white men. That's why antifa can't actually fight.
Since 2010 the post of oppressor has been vacant and we are just observing the purity spiralling neomarxist victims all trying to distance themselves furthest from the post, like all ambitious politicians denying they don't really want a shot at the title during an election year.
Dean_Clean 4y ago
Good points. I would add to your point in your second paragraph. In addition to tightening the focus on specific types of men (women wanting more CEO positions but not lower rung jobs that many men also do) I would say that as the feminist movement made traction on certain issues, they identified new territory to target in order to get more and more favor and advantage. That's how we get to the point now where women today are offered boat loads of money and advantages from school to family to career. It also seems like this hunger for "more" can never be satisfied.
xgreyia 4y ago
Feminism when it first emerged dates back to the 1800s in France and that absolutely was in response to a society where women were not getting a fair shake at having the same lifestyles and livelihoods afforded to them the way men were.
You can see where feminism meets identity politics and how the concept of privilege comes into play. And yes that is where the “target group”of oppressors starts to be identified as white Christian heterosexual males. But it is also pointed out that the so called target group emerges out of an overall white supremacist societal structure (a society built by white people and upholds certain ideals and ways of life and in so doing excludes those that do not conform, have different cultures and uphold different ideals).
So if that’s true the people who benefit the most and yield the most power would be men, Christian, white and heterosexual. And in order for that position to be held or upheld there are groups of people who are oppressed in making and keeping that reality. Because the very nature of a society that is supremacist in nature wouldn’t willing make space for others to co-exist or allow for others to excel within that structure at its expense.
I disagree that the post of oppressor is vacant but rather becoming identified with growing specificity. And that goes back to my point that we are all oppressed in some way but privileges can make us blind to the ways that we are not oppressed and the ways others may be oppressed.
MyFatThumb 4y ago
There are no oppressors nor oppressed in western society. The west is not ruled by Christian white heterosexual men. This is all in your head.
From the black civil rights movement in the 60s, feminism in the 70s, gay rights 80s, disabled 90s, trans 00s, everybody has had more than their fair share of the cake.
The only group who not have a rise in rights nor a reduction in responsabilites in the west are heterosexual white men.
This is now the group who have waited their turn long enough. Particularly white working class men, remember them? The proletariat. The ones who didn't revolt in 1914 but went to war so that working class men and women could vote.
White people stopped slavery in the west, the only masters now are black or brown in Africa and Asia.
There are no white people throwing gays of roofs anywhere in the world.
Modern white middle class women of European descent are the most privileged majority demographic to have existed in history.
You could have just said thankyou and stopped while the going was good but you guys had to keep going.
Without you, Trump would never have happened nor brexit, not the rise of right wing populism. Nor the impending end of your overly effective victim culture.
I'm just sitting back with popcorn watching the shit show.
TheLegionnaire 4y ago
They don't seem to understand how a pendulum works. The harder you push one side, the harder it will swing to the other.
Tristan_D_C_Wintle 4y ago
I only found out those feminists existed because of the Internet, and I don’t really meet anyone like that in real life.
SquirmyBurrito 4y ago
Weird, I only found out about the 'good feminists' existing from the internet. I have only ever seen them push for sexist bullshit under the guise of equality. They've always seemed like a unicorn (the 'good ones') to me.
SsoulBlade 4y ago
Ironically, whenever I ask people for good feminists they always cite the feminists that IS against mainstream 3rd/4th wave feminism like Errin Pizzey and Christina Sommers.
BlueCosmog 4y ago
feminism is the name for feminazis, egalitarianism is the name.
kylevk02 4y ago
No, we should adapt to feminazis as a new term. Labels are important, and feminism still holds the "for equality"-message. I don't think that "egalitarianism" would take of as a term. To me it sounds a bit pedantic, but feel free to disagree.
sjam69 4y ago
I'm not against the consensus that modern day feminism is bad and misguided, but you will never make substantial change or impact anyone through means of hate or fear. Going around calling everyone feminazis will surely do nothing but turn people off from your way of thinking before you even have the chance to explain yourself.
CountVonVague 4y ago
These... these are 2013 talking points defending an overtly female-centric ideology...
BlueCosmog 4y ago
egalitarianism.. has already taken off
vivid-bunny 4y ago
nahh. if feminists ever cared they wouldnt have oppressed men like this in the first place. theyre like bank robbers trying to become friends again After spending all the money they have stolen from you
jlude90 4y ago
Well here it is, the dumbest thing I'll read today. Congratulations.
vivid-bunny 4y ago
its not dumb it completely hits the mark. actually you are the dumb one. maybe you would be taken serious if you at least made some point.
jlude90 4y ago
If at any point in time you ever thought men were oppressed you need to pull your head out of your ass and look the fuck around. Your comment was so off base it required no point to be recognized as a completely asinine statement.
Petsweaters 4y ago
No true Scotsman
kylevk02 4y ago
I don't get the reference
Petsweaters 4y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
kylevk02 4y ago
Well I would think that my statement falls under the counterexmaples.
valenin 4y ago
I promise, it doesn’t.
The first clue that it doesn’t is that you don’t actually provide any examples. Of anything.
The second is that your post is almost literally, ‘yes, but they’re not the real feminists!’ Which you’ll notice is only one synonym and a subject swap away from being the literal textbook example of ‘no true Scotsman.’
kylevk02 4y ago
The article gives the counterexample of a pacifist. (no pacifist would stab someone. But I know one who did. Then he is not a real pacifist.) A real feminist strives for equality, it's literally the definition of feminism. so when i say that "feminists" who say kill all men, men can't be raped, the patriarchy suppresses women etc, are not real feminists but feminazis I don't think that's a logical fallacy.
I don't have time nor energy to provide u of an example of a real feminist. I remember an interview where Jordan Peterson was discussing his popularity with young men, where a feminist acknowledged! the problems of young males. It's not much, I know, but ull have to go on that.
duhhhh 4y ago
Then why does Mary Koss get awards rather than criticism from feminist organizations? Why do others copy her methodologies and cite her work rather than gathering gender neutral rape statistics?
Dnile1000BC 4y ago
This is a provably false statement. Affirmative action - advocated by feminists enshrined in law and policy easily disproves this. Just because feminism says "feminism is for equality" it does not automatically follow that feminism is for equality in reality. It's like North Korea saying it's a democratic country or Muslims saying Islam is a religion of peace. All of which are demonstrably false.
valenin 4y ago
Here’s something to think about when you’re trying to go to sleep tonight.
If you’d need to do research to find a single example of ‘a real feminist’ and can’t name a single one off the top of your head, what does that say about your concept of real feminism?
rap_and_drugs 4y ago
If your perception of feminists is based on right wing or anti-SJW/anti-feminist depictions then you might think this, but I want to throw in here I'm a feminist, have seen a lot of feminist content, and have never seen anyone say anything akin to "men can't be raped" etc. I'm sure there are some people who do say shit like that, but they don't represent feminism as a movement IMO (much like how I'd imagine most people would say incels don't represent men's rights activism).
Feminist content and people I've seen usually advocate for gender specific issues for men, women, trans people, non-binary people, everyone.
lasciate 4y ago
As an example of what I'm talking about, feminists demanded default mother custody of children in the case of divorce (and continue to oppose equally shared parenting to this day). Do you know what rank-and-file feminists say when confronted with this blatant sexism? "That's the fault of the patriarchy because women are traditionally seen as responsible for child-rearing."
Keenin455 4y ago
And how does The Duluth Model of Domestic Violence, The Tender Years Doctrine, and N.O.W opposing Shared Parenting advocate on gender specific issues for men?
morerokk 4y ago
Then you haven't looked very hard. The biggest feminist organizations in the US created and all support the Duluth Model, a sexist model which says that women can't abuse men. It's entirely based on feminist theory and was brought forward by feminists. It's thanks to models like these that male abuse victims can end up getting arrested themselves when they call the police.
Are you saying that the massive feminist organizations, the ones in charge of lobbying and the ones influencing academics, laws and public discourse "don't represent the movement"? The major feminist figures which constantly block pro-male legislature don't represent the movement?
I'm sure you represent the movement, a random redditor, am I right? That's not just "No true scotsman" anymore, that's blatant dishonesty.
Dnile1000BC 4y ago
Here is a feminist "advocating for gender specific issues for men".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRWUsn4yyJI
L0SERlambda 4y ago
What do you mean?
lasciate 4y ago
When a sexist feminist position becomes untenable feminists pretend they never held that position. Thus, they remain legitimate in the eyes of average people despite being the ones responsible for obstructing equality and having myriad other sexist positions.
L0SERlambda 4y ago
Ah, like the "Believe women" thing.
viper12a1a 4y ago
probably because the trans activists are turning on them
KwamesCorner 4y ago
I think movements act like pendulums, to gather support initially they have to swing hard in one direction with momentum and a narrow focus (ie “Listen to us, Sexual Assault is serious and happens more than u think”) and so it leaves little room for nuance. Then there’s a backlash because there is always nuance in every situation and people will eventually call out the gaps that have been left behind. Eventually over time things settle and rational thinking can rise to the top.
RIPDODGERSBANDWAGON 4y ago
As long as feminists understand that sexual harassment happens to everyone of all genders then I’m cool with them.
Unfortunately many don’t but as you said, glad to see that that’s changing.
davemeech 4y ago
No not at all, the vast majority of feminist representation have been saying this all along. This sub, and other similar circles will cherry pick the easy dumb quotes to vilify what is really a very good movement.
Honestly, take a breather from this sub, you'll have a lot more meaningful support with feminism than what is very evidently thinly veiled sexism and women hating on this sub and its ilk. (r/mtgow r/redpill etc.)
WRRRYYYYYY 4y ago
Yeah I have noticed that, it's about time it happened. I'm gonna be honest I think it is because the media is focusing on mental health a lot more lately, and people have had so much time to themselves to think and research, that some have realized they may not be going about their ideals and such correctly.
L0SERlambda 4y ago
I agree.
morerokk 4y ago
Great, now let's see them actually stick to their word and have major feminist organizations codify this in law! Enough with the "women can't abuse men" legislature that still exists today.
L0SERlambda 4y ago
Yessss! We all need this.
MinePgamer 4y ago
I just want to point out that they haven't said women can be rapists, they only said men can be victims too. It is quite an advamcement non the less. Edit: spelling :)
L0SERlambda 4y ago
Ahhhh. You're very right. Haven't looked at their post like that.
feckinghound 4y ago
Feminism has never been anti men. Feminism is a huge umbrella term for a myriad of different perspectives.
What the issue is that people seem to think radical feminism = feminism, when it doesn't meant that.
I'm a neo feminist: gender roles are a thing. Each gender has different attributes that are favourable in certain situations (women as care givers because it's a hardwired thing, and men are naturally stronger and suitable for various manual tasks etc.) It also agrees that gender is a social construct (sex isn't the same as gender) which means that men can do the roles of women and vice versa. E.g you'll see some men who can fit into "feminine" roles like nursery worker/primary school teacher, and some women who can lift 60kg of cement bags on her shoulders on a job site without breaking a sweat. Those are crude examples but it explains the point. Neo feminism will always state the inequalities that men face as well.
Then you've got black feminism, Marxist feminism etc. that revolves round specific things in society that has inequality at its roots.
9/10 feminists believe men are treated terribly as victims of sex crimes, and domestic violence etc.
The issue is with entitled wenches who, when it happens to them, use their female status to game the system when it comes to the end of relationships/marriages with things like alimony, child support, staying in the home. It's a pluralism that I do not ever condone and believe is right. You can't have your cake and eat it. You either want equality or not. But they're not feminists, they're narcissistic and toxic.
I had to do a module at uni on gender studies as part of my sociology degree, and we never spent the whole time bashing men and saying how hard done by women were. Radical feminism wasn't even mentioned, except to use as a point of reference of how fucking crazy people can be. Even in textbooks, it gets a small entry in comparison to other feminist theory.
I've never taught feminism to my students to be anything like radicals because that's how you disengage an entire class when you're talking about gender politics.
The biggest injustice men and women suffer is to use the fanatics as benchmarks and argue against each other when that's not the reality of beliefs of most. Are all men enablers of toxic masculinity? Fuck no, that's fucking stupid. So why are all feminists radicals that want the death of all men? It's a trope that's old, tired and boring. You're better off flogging a dead horse.
The same can be said for LGBTQ, being left or right wing politically. It's literally a spectrum - it's not black and white. So instead of pointing fingers and saying you're this and that, open the discussion by actually going out and speaking to people you think you hate and do some research into what it is you think you hate.
Dnile1000BC 4y ago
This is false. All versions of feminism subscribe to the patriarchy theory, which states: "Women are oppressed and men are oppressors".
As a fundamental principle of your religion, You cannot get anymore anti-men than that.
Completely disingenuous and dangerous action to take. Feminists will ensure that you lose your livelihood and your life should you even attempt to do this.
DignifiedAlpaca 4y ago
During the Holocaust, there were Nazi prison guards who secretly helped victims escape from the concentration camps. Not all people working for the Nazi government actually agreed with the bad things it was doing.
However, Nazism is generally regarded as a bad thing because by and large, the people associated with it were bad people who did bad things in the name of Nazism. Given that the majority of people associated with feminism are bad people who do bad things in the name of feminism, it is understandably going to be difficult for you to convince most reasonable people to change their negative perception of feminism. You may happen to be one of the few good feminists, but that doesn't change the fact that feminism is by and large associated with bad things.
Chasew301 4y ago
If you wanna see some real feminism l, where they understand that the patriarchy harms both sexes, I hear r/AskFeminists is good
Psycedilla 4y ago
Those are the real feminists allright. The manhating ones.
Chasew301 4y ago
Those are extremists. After looking at AskFeminists they’re pretty chill
acbdxb 4y ago
Good to see that the feminists got their head outta their ass.
proexsniping 4y ago
What they say don't really matter. They are gonna say that then say in the next post that the world doesn't need men for anything except for their dicks which is exactly what they did before.
WowpowKerchoo 4y ago
Glad to see that feminists are starting to talk about both men and women's issues. Feminazis who hijacked the movement really gave it a bad name, and thankfully it looks like more people are waking up and realizing that feminazis aren't feminists and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Marty-the-monkey 4y ago
It’s weird how you demand that feminism should take men’s cases as well, when with MRA you are all for only doing stuff for men alone.
HCEandALP4ever 4y ago
Feminists themselves claim they’re the ones who fight for men’s issues. In fact, they often use that to argue that a men’s movement isn’t necessary; feminism will take care of men’s issues.
Marty-the-monkey 4y ago
Where do you have that from?
zaapas 4y ago
Hum excuse me. Why was MRA created again? And shouldn't feminism talk about men issues to? Because that's in the definition of it. What's your point? Are your saying that feminism shouldn't take men's case? Why?
Marty-the-monkey 4y ago
MRA is created to focus on the perspective of the men’s side, while feminism is from the perspective of women.
Now I’m all for that everybody help everybody, but if you want to say that Feminism should also fight for the male perspective, then the inverse should also be applicable (which when looking at most of the posts aren’t the case).
zaapas 4y ago
Thank you. You just proven that your vision of feminism is more on the women's side. So not for all sexes like in its definition. I don't think you understand how those groups work or should work. Feminism was (not always) for egality of all. But it apparently failed to do so and took a side. Men's rights in the other hand counter balances it. It is not primarily an attack on feminism to point at its failures in equality. Feminist attacked the group painting it however they wanted it to downplay the movement. So they responded. If you want a movement that focuses only on pure equality, equity, and justice search egalitarianism.
Marty-the-monkey 4y ago
Show me where it say that feminism should, and show me where it say that MRA does.
zaapas 4y ago
In the... definition? Feminism is a range of social movements, political movements, and ideologies that aim to define, establish, and achieve the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes
Marty-the-monkey 4y ago
Where specifically do you have that definition, and where in it does it specifically say that they will then advocate for men’s rights?
zaapas 4y ago
Well this one is in their wiki and I would assume equality of the sexes to include men. How do you see it?
Marty-the-monkey 4y ago
If ‘equality of the sexes’ is formulated based on the premise that one side is disproportionately misrepresented, then that’s the side one focus on, and not the other.
It’s like how Black Lives Matter doesn’t negate all life, but are focused on the ones being unfairly treated.
Feminism doesn’t mean men’s rights aren’t important or doesn’t exists. They just aren’t focusing on them, because they are focusing on the female side.
zaapas 4y ago
Or the current one : the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes... So can you explain to me why does feminists claim to take in account men's issues? Or is that a lie
Marty-the-monkey 4y ago
I never claimed they did. That’s why I was asking.
zaapas 4y ago
Well if you type "(random men's issues) is a feminist issue" you can find plenty of them.
Marty-the-monkey 4y ago
I can also google and find plenty of people, articles and videos of people claiming the earth is flat, vaccines don’t work or that G5 towers causes corona. Hardly makes it the case.
So I was asking you for some specific credible source to what you are claiming.
random13980 4y ago
That page is full of retards sadly
FindingKeeping 4y ago
They just don't want the backlash
jarNO_WAY 4y ago
Feminist? WHAT?! I followed that account for a while, they were some of the most disgusting misandrists. Great to see that they decided to steer away a bit! Faith restored.
Auntie_Hero 4y ago
I bet that comment section was an atomic garbage fire of fairness, common sense, and well-thought-out discussion.
Suck-Less 4y ago
Am I the only one thinking: what was the downvoted ratio?
thereslcjg2000 4y ago
Instagram doesn’t have downvotes...
needassistancee 4y ago
the equivalent should bemoreextreme.
AkashUK 4y ago
We need more of this.
PennyFeatherIX 4y ago
This really surprised me when I saw it
iShean 4y ago
Why can't I find this post?Did they delete it because of some backlash?
dragonjock27 4y ago
They hid it in a slide of other posts. Intentionally hidden so that few people will see it, but they can still claim "see? we care!"
iShean 4y ago
hmm...maybe that is true
embxsanrose 4y ago
No, there’s several slides
dragonjock27 4y ago
Done intentionally so that few people will see it.
embxsanrose 4y ago
Here’s a link, make sure to slide to the other slides
iShean 4y ago
I checked it out and oh boy!The comments are messed up. Men are privileged and the believe all women BS all over again.
embxsanrose 4y ago
I know, I literally read one comment and left the comment section just so I wouldn’t get angry.
iShean 4y ago
I read some of them and got my mood spoiled.There were illogical arguments like "Women get harassed more so men are privileged".That is indeed true,but that does not prove privilege lol...
Sjdillon10 4y ago
Might be the first time that insta account has ever posted something like that
ThrowawayGhostGuy1 4y ago
This is their damage control to lure men in to be good little cucks. Don’t fall for chameleons.
goodmod 4y ago
Many women are good and sincere.
Just like men, most are good and some are bad. Don't be blinded by hatred. We need to support each other to get equal rights for everyone.
MBV-09-C 4y ago
So, are you also going to point out that you had to swipe past a picture that said "Stop teaching women how to dress. Instead, teach men how to respect women" on that exact same post in order to get to this?
jbirr727 4y ago
Any progress is good progress, even if it's slow at first.
Neveah_Hope_Dreams 4y ago
Yes!
Absolutely. I'm glad people are starting to wake up and realise this. I really appreciate the amount of people speaking out about the way we view male victims of rape and abuse.
9_speeds 4y ago
This account is actually a good one
proexsniping 4y ago
Except it isn't. The account is full of contradictions, objectifying men and more stuff. They only do this to gain a good light to people who haven't seen it before. I've seen them do this pattern a lot. First they make a post saying body-shaming is always wrong then makes fun of small-dicked men.
thereslcjg2000 4y ago
A few years ago they posted a meme about wishing they could send every last man away from earth so... no, not really
Bloodetta 4y ago
This would be real progression.
where did you find it? can u spare a link?
AlphaNepali 4y ago
https://www.instagram.com/p/CCGoO3SsDhq/?igshid=58a8oz2f96ew
George179 4y ago
It's not "men can be victims too". Its "Men are victims".
Starmind0 4y ago
Don't need a fucking feminist to tell me that, neither do I want to hear it from them. Feminism has caused nothing but bullshit against men. The killing of men, justified abuse against men, body-shaming men (which can be seen in their latest posts), and of course the misandristic theories that men need no movement or support because we "liVe iN a PatrIarcHy". I don't know about my fellow MRAs, but I'm not waiting for feminists to change or to fucking tell me men can be raped too since MANY feminist leaders already literally claimed sexist bullshit like "men can't be raped". Abolish the movement, that's how they can change and start acting like actual humans. Almost every feminist WILL tell you "oh I do care about men and they can be victims" but believing their words despite their contradictory actions makes you wrong and easily manipulated.
SonnBaz 4y ago
Tis' a shame that we can't work with them for the common good of equality but alas the world is cruel.
therenousername 4y ago
I bet who ever posted that is perma banned from r/feminism now
baxigamer22 4y ago
Did we just win??
OldBigsby 4y ago
Win what?
KxNight 4y ago
There’s many more battles to win
Dongune 4y ago
We have indeed won, brother.
Wo1fy7 4y ago
Everyone has
Cezh_work_GSD_Scout 4y ago
Wow, it must be a cold day in hell because I'm agreeing with a FEMINIST.
gungroutgary 4y ago
The post is gone
koelan_vds 4y ago
Swipe
Hugo28Boss 4y ago
When was that posted?
koelan_vds 4y ago
I saw one of the other slides in a girl's story and I then I saw that one. Just checked it was posted yesterday.
xdshohet 4y ago
Do you have a link to that?
AlphaNepali 4y ago
Here
JestyerAverageJoe 4y ago
Will they admit women can be aggressors?
DATB0IMAN 4y ago
YES!
Indigostorm27 4y ago
Huh they are finally getting this. It's good to see less of the " hate all men because they are men" bullshit and more of what really matters here.
iShean 4y ago
They do talk about men once in a while,but they only cover sexual assault and emotional abuse by the "patriarchy"...
Even after that,you see comments like "Stop discussing about men here,let them have a movement of their own,feminism is about advocacy of women's rights on grounds of equality".I saw this exact comment on one post about male sexual assault victims.
That comment had 800+ likes and the comment that explained her about "feminism is about equality" had 500+.
The post for sure had less likes than other posts they made.But at least,this proved that not all feminists hate men. Although they may not talk about biased laws,but they do care about men.
Feminists like Christina Hoff Sommers often talk about men's issues.
The representatives of feminists have attracted many misandrists and young people to make them believe that somehow they are the only ones facing issues.
This causes the good feminists to be silenced.I have a feminist friend who acknowledges the fact that 53% rape allegations in my country are false(here,dating is a taboo,in one state 45% rape cases were filed by parents after they discovered that their daughter had a boyfriend),while also acknowledging that many cases go unreported.
ThreeLF 4y ago
"Let them have a movement of their own"
"No!!! Not like that!1!!1!"
HCEandALP4ever 4y ago
Why? Good feminists can speak up just as loudly. Indeed, we’re often told the vast majority of feminists are the good ones. If that’s true, then good feminists have an even louder voice. They should have no problem shouting down the bad ones. But they don’t.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
(That quote has been attributed to both Edmund Burke and that brilliant, brilliant thinker John Stuart Mill. Both wrote during a time when “men” was commonly used. “Women” can be substituted in this instance — the principle is the same.)
XxAryanWolfxX 4y ago
Men can be and women can't. A woman always suggested she wanted it. Only the truth
koelan_vds 4y ago
I don't think any woman wants to be raped. That's just misogynistic dude.
[deleted] 4y ago
[removed]
koelan_vds 4y ago
Ok boomer
XxAryanWolfxX 4y ago
Based soyboypilled little cuck. Women only use you as their carpet.
21STCTT 4y ago
Feminists are not about equal rights, that’s why it’s called feminism.
[deleted] 4y ago
[deleted]
HCEandALP4ever 4y ago
I’ve heard many more women than men say such things. To return your question, then, what are your thoughts on these women who make these types of comments?
[deleted] 4y ago
[deleted]
HCEandALP4ever 4y ago
I'm sorry if I was unclear. I meant women making comments about female teachers raping boys.
I meant offline.
koelan_vds 4y ago
Well, of course a lot of boys would be okay with it if they have sex with the hot teacher, but a lot of girls would also like to have sex with the sexy gymnastics teacher. My sister said she had a crush on hers. But I do believe that boys and girls can both get raped even if it's by a teacher they like physically and emotionally.
[deleted] 4y ago
[deleted]
thursdayfridays 4y ago
It absolutely does. Comments like those are a big part of the reason male victims have a hard time speaking out.
matrixislife 4y ago
When it finally gets real traction, feminists will come out of the woodwork to claim this is what they've been saying all along.
rborens 4y ago
Where is this post? cant find it on their insta
koelan_vds 4y ago
It's a swipe
Edit: Here it is
Emergency_Carpet_475 4y ago
Lads, take caution before you drink their koolaid. Not to say that this isn’t genuine but I feel like a lot of feminists will first preach their bigotry and hatred against men constantly and when they start to get called out, act like they’re on our side suddenly by posting stuff like this here-and-there just to prevent themselves from looking bad.
greasygut69 4y ago
I saw this but it wasn’t surprising at all when the feminists I see on Instagram never once posted that one
LemonadeSh4rk 4y ago
I hate it when feminist subreddits don't want people to talk about male issues. Isn't feminism equality for all? Not just women.
Little_Whippie 4y ago
I can’t help but think there is some sort of alterior motivation here
BluezLover 4y ago
bet she was forced to post this because her page was being reported
short_dude5ft3in 4y ago
I wouldn’t be surprise if they will claim that only men can sexually assault other men.
MyUserNameIsSkave 4y ago
There is no matter of "not real feminist, real feminists just want eguality" peopole who really want eguality are not feminists. Feminism has never been a matter of equality You can't really match with this ideological movement if you are for the eguality
Dnile1000BC 4y ago
This empty statement is nothing but feminist speak for toxic masculinity. We will only see progress when feminists say explicitly women are also perpetrators. Then we can talk about repealing sexist (against men) law and policy.
This useless platitude is exactly the same as saying "feminism is for equality". Neither of which have any real meaning as they do not mean what the plain reading of the words say.
kanray86 4y ago
feminists will pay lip service occasionally towards these issues. but their actions speak louder than words. no resources spent towards male victims, no demand for more male domestic violence centers, college feminist "scholars" disrupting men's rights conventions. even this instagram page will maybe make a pretentious post every 3-4 months or so, but the vast majority is propaganda that paints assault and domestic violence and mainly female issues to blame on men
apostate99 4y ago
If you want resources for male victims, male domestic violence center and such, then males should make them. Minorities don’t go around building resources and centers for underprivileged kids so that white people can come and complain why they didn’t do it for them too
kanray86 4y ago
your mistake is assuming feminists culture allows that to happen. feminist "scholars" and professionals routinely protest at and interrupt men's issues conventions, male victim clinics, etc.
whenever men need help, there is always a feminist there to stop it. for instance, when the 08 recession hit, male-dominated professions were hardest hit (such as blue collar jobs) while women faced a far more mild response. Obama's stimulus plan thus conformed according to that to issue more stimulus to male-dominated industries since those industries were hurt the most. feminists immediately interjected and obama eventually relented to political pressure, pushing for more funding for female-dominated professions like nursing.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/no-country-for-burly-men#!
(and yea, ik washington examiner is ass, but the points in the article still stand)
the same things apply for male abuse shelters. feminists can *maybe* tolerate 1-2 shelters for men, but if men actually started to build more shelters to match actual abuse demographics, feminists would call it a "male takeover" of "female" issues
apostate99 4y ago
I see, I myself have issues with feminists as a black person but I can see where they are super hypocritical. I still don’t think you can label a whole movement because of a subgroup but that subgroup of feminists who don’t support male victims and aren’t aware of men’s issues suck and need to be put in their place. Thank you for sharing your perspective and I just want to say that logical, empathetic people (women and men) understand that men and women both have struggles that need to be addressed as well
Bolomin 4y ago
A lot louder for the white knights and feminist in the back.
[deleted] 4y ago
[removed]
KxNight 4y ago
Deserves a bullet? Hey man as much as feminism has excluded men, lets not advocate violence.
pauloilarde 4y ago
Is it real? I searched the post and didn't find it there
SsoulBlade 4y ago
Too late. I've been anti-feminist for 20 years. One person's post is not changing my viewpoint unless the majority of the movement do something similar or more all the time.
And also do something about the likes of Clementine Ford or Andrea Dworkin. Men have lost jobs or got a public "flogging" or doxxed for something far less worse.
xAtlasU 4y ago
Must’ve deleted it already lmao i can’t find it
Nicesun19 4y ago
Nope, still there, it’s a slide though
I_cum_to_dead_cops 4y ago
Worth pointing out that men who are victimized are mostly still victimized by other men.
morerokk 4y ago
That's not even true. Please don't spread misinformation.
That's only true if you use the UK's definition of "rape" (forced penetration), which by definition only a male perpetrator can perform. When you count "made to penetrate" too, suddenly the graph becomes equally sized.
ConfidentLaptop 4y ago
Worth pointing out that women can spin the narrative anyway they want and everyone will bend over backwards to appease them
duhhhh 4y ago
B U L L S H I T
SekaLolaKato 4y ago
Even if that is true, why is it at all relevant?
brotherin45 4y ago
I’ve had way worse experiences with women assaulting than men
-Hawky- 4y ago
Ive been assaulted by women of many different ages and demographics. What were my options for retaliation? I could fight and be sent to prison or go to others and be laughed at (by men and women). If ive been assaulted by a man (which i dont remember anything untoward) i could knock that fool out and be done with it.
One of my assaulters was an elderly woman (70+)
hey-its-my-account 4y ago
This isn’t men vs women. It’s men AND women vs sexual assault.
I_cum_to_dead_cops 4y ago
Right, the sexual assault that mostly men do.
unnoticedchance 4y ago
https://imgur.com/RvK9oDe
hey-its-my-account 4y ago
It doesn’t matter who the perpetrator is.
I_cum_to_dead_cops 4y ago
It does if you want to understand how to stop it.
ThingYea 4y ago
So?
I_cum_to_dead_cops 4y ago
So if you want to protect male victims you need to recognize that the people victimizing them are also men, and investigate why that is.
-Hawky- 4y ago
Fill in the blanks: are you implying to ic mas nity?
I_cum_to_dead_cops 4y ago
I'm saying the fact that Men are far and away the most likely group to commit sexual assault, and why that is is worth investigating if you want to protect victims.
I don't think it's unreasonable to consider part of the problem to be cultural.
duhhhh 4y ago
B U L L S H I T
-MrPornFlakes- 4y ago
I don't think the feminatzis are turning I think there is a surge of new young feminists who are smart and not brain washed
Xneon666 4y ago
I couldn't find the post , can you link it ?
AlphaNepali 4y ago
Here
Xneon666 4y ago
Thanks
BigShooterThrowaway 4y ago
Wait. Feminists are right for once?!
SekaLolaKato 4y ago
A broken clock is right twice a day.
WhatRemainsAfter 4y ago
Why are you looking for their approvals?
clurr170 4y ago
-But Gender based and sexual violence disproportionately effects women -Perpetrators are mostly men -check the stats Male on Male violence has nothing to do with women
duhhhh 4y ago
I've checked the rape stats. ALL the rape stats. Not just where the victim is penetrated by the perpetrator. /r/MensRights/comments/hk0f25/finally/fwr1zy2/
Werwet10 4y ago
Be careful everyone. When they are admitting stuff...they put it on their face as a mask and continue to do all their evil things....and this time..we won't be able to show their straight forward BS done by them to them.
ClubZlut 4y ago
They'll grudgingly acknowledge that, but only if men are the perpetrators. You'll never find one that will say a woman could abuse or harass anyone.
Their entire mantra is that men are trash. Stop believing equality is part of the gameplan now because feminism dumped that a while ago.
TheRealMr_F 4y ago
i got kicked from womens rights because i joined here. nice :)
misanthropeint 4y ago
If you believe men can’t get raped, you’re part of the problem
mhandanna 4y ago
Firstly they haven't said that women can be persp and I doubt they will. What is their intention also? Feminsits had some interest in male suicide so they could push toxic masculinity narratives to push away real reasons men comit suicide ... e.g. family courts, milatry service, homelessness, DV, lack of mens funding.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/hke0mh/professor\_nicola\_grahamkevan\_this\_is\_most/
(Video is by a professor of DV, she explains how feminist stratgey on gendering DV to women only works, and what techniques they used in otder to do this.... and how they kept moving the goal posts to make sure it was gendered to women (she explains how after feminsits finally had to give into the fact that DV was common by female perps and even gender symetterical, they invented the coercive control model to show how DV done by women doesn't count as DV as it is not under coercive control.... the kicker is though that now femnist own research is showing coercive control is gender symetrical too!! So they are using old tactics again)
From another poster:
The progress over time...
We're still on stage three.
Tmomp 4y ago
Next they'll tell us water is wet.
s-bdine 4y ago
Did they delete it?
Edit: nvm. Here it is.
Mycroft033 4y ago
Er, that’s not the post
Edit: never mind, I’m just an idiot