This started out as a reply to another post, but I thought I'd give a try to explaining how I've been operating even though I'm really a half-tard feeling my way around in the dark with this still.
The guy was asking r/redpillcoach how to handle his wife giving him signals to initiate with the intention of shooting him down for fun. I've always thought that if it isn't an LMR and she is in fact doing that, it's their own way of showing you that their SMV is higher than yours and being cruel, or, punishing you for some perceived slight in order to modify your behavior. Remember, women are told by society that this is their right and even duty, to "Get their man squared away."
My wife did this the other day and her reaction to my response annually caught me off guard. Basically I initiate when I want and this week she gave me a hard no 3 nights in a row. I simply kissed her on her cheek (she flinched away because how dare I push her for gasp sex when she says no) and told her "Good night, I love you" and started reading. She knows I'm reading a lot more and so it didn't come off as butt hurt (as far as I know, but at this point that's her interpretation to have)
A little background, I'm fairly OI as of now since I want to fuck about 2 to 3 times a week and by initiating 8 to 9 I am getting what I want. Those 2 to 3 times a week are when I'm going to give it to the next thing that crosses my path no matter what, bull in a China shop, I push past the LMR because I want to and they are fun, involved and getting dirtier. The other times are the next 2 or 3 days after when it happens to cross my mind and she is around. Not really "I'm GOING to fuck no matter what!" moments.
Here is what I think is the reason, and her actions confirmed it I believe. She realizes I am a sex hungry bastard and since she's getting a break when she gives her little pouty hard no 2 or 3 times, she starts having passive dread. When it happened this week I got up the next morning after hard no 3 in a row, hit the reset button and came in behind her with my morning wood while she's doing her makeup and hugged her. Then told her, busy day today, going to hit the gym early and went and lifted. I usually lift later in the day.
I got back home before she left the house (strange, she's usually gone 15 minutes before this). I went inside and was getting coffee and she was putting on her shoes. She came over, kissed me goodbye and then caught me off guard with, come and talk to me outside please, in a pleasant and almost pleading tone.
We get in the garage and she says she knows I'm getting frustrated with her and want to fuck a lot more than she is giving me. I just smiled and pressure flipped, "You think I'm frustrated because I want to fuck more?" and she came back with, "Last night I was waiting for you to keep going, I even stayed up after you stopped.". Now you will think I'm autistic but I'm trying to break her of this notion that remaining awake laying still next to me without touching is a way of initiating. So I AA and give her, "Dang it! I just knew you were trying to blow me!". And she laughed. She knows she's full of shit and that she's capable of being aggressive and initiating and that I see through her repricing l retroactive DEER trying to point the finger and give me the, "You HAD your chance" which I did, I just was more OI than interested.
Then the revelation that her hamster has been pushing the wheel. "Did you meet you girlfriend and fuck at the gym?". She's half smiling and being silly trying to play it off, she knows people can't fuck at the gym (Unless they do, of course) but she is thinking she had better step up or I could give other people. Again AA and give her, "Come on, no way. My workout is too valuable for that.". I can see her relax and she starts to turn towards her car when I add with a laugh, "It was behind the Dollar Tree you know why I bought that extended cab.".
Dirty look and slammed car door as I smile and wave as she backs out. She calls me from work later, which she never does, just to talk. That night I throw the Wedge on the bed while she's brushing her teeth and tell her to get up there and bend over it so I can finger fuck her while vibing her balloon knot. And of course she does and it's on from there.
All of that to say this, passive dread works. It doesn't necessarily have to come from things you do, it can be from her hamstering shit she ISN'T doing. Things you don't explain or get butt hurt about will burn in her brain for days if she knows they are things that you want in a relationship but that she's been neglecting.
If you can't take a hard no without being a little twat, initiate when you don't want it that badly and you will have OI. You initiate 3 times as much and get the no more often then the yes will come more often too. Even if you are still not to where you need to be for spontaneous initiating from her, she knows there's at the VERY LEAST some of the chubsters at the gym who would like to suck you off for the same reasons she's trapped you.
She doesn't want that shit to happen even if she isn't attracted to you like you want yet. Keep working at it and use this as a way to pull the old, fake it till you make it. But also, make sure you make it, too many dudes just doing the faking part full time.

person8445 7y ago
Whats OI?
Puddles503 7y ago
If my microwave only worked 1/3 of the time I'd trash it.
[deleted] 7y ago
New to MTRP.. can't find the meaning of OI anywhere. What does that stand for?
Flynnjacklepappy 7y ago
Outcome independent
[deleted] 7y ago
I’m finding my wife shows signs of being turned on then gives me shit about how she’s not a whore. Usually I can break through this but last night we got in this cycle of trying to break through 5-6 times and then went to sleep. Is there a point when to stop trying break through here or do I push until I get a hard emphatic no?
hack3ge 7y ago
I honestly never thought that my initiations and her rejections were affecting her at all. Over the past few months, a no for me has just become a non-event and I go about my day and do something else or go to sleep. I assumed my wife didn't even think twice about any of it. I've actually thought I was over initiating and was going to cut it back until recent events.
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In the last 2 weeks, I've been trying to be more overt and aggressive with my initiations and apparently just the fact that I am making it 100% clear that I want to fuck has created some dread. I've been getting the "You make me feel awful when I say no to you" - its funny that no matter what you do or how OI you really are they still bring it back to you being butt hurt. Her hamster finally recognized she is not doing something she is supposed to be doing in the relationship and there's just the slightest chance I am going to get it somewhere else given how aggressive my initiations are. I've noticed that after 2-3 days her "guilt" about saying No that I get a really easy Yes.
3legsbetter 7y ago
I had no idea this was so common. SMH.
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OMSnow 7y ago
Yep. My wife pulls that bullshit.
hack3ge 7y ago
I've witnessed this too - I got a No a few weeks back and I just rolled over and went to sleep because I couldn't be bothered with playing games. Next morning to is getting ready and tells me I missed out and she was laying there awake because she wanted to have sex last night. I laughed and said well next time try a better signal - maybe put my cock in your mouth. I got called an asshole and got the silent treatment for most of the day but sex was good that night.
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I think its a combination of a power struggle plus their egos can't handle a rejection so they aren't willing to take the risk. They don't want you to know that they do enjoy sex and need to keep an impression of control around it. This seems fairly common for guys 6-9 months in and that entire paradigm shifts after the main event where she has openly submitted.
OMSnow 7y ago
You are reading that right and good attitude handling your wife. Hope you’re right about 6-9 months in as I’m about 11 in and see this but didn’t think too deep about it. Thanks.
coachdad8 7y ago
1 out of 3 is only good in baseball. It doesn't create a happy marriage, it incentivizes adding plates.
[deleted] 7y ago
[deleted]
billybilly543 7y ago
Both.
BobbyPeru 7y ago
This is a pretty decent field report.
They always know when you’re butthurt. But you did the right thing with STFU.
I don’t agree with your numbers approach to initiating. Learn how to read her, and use kino and how she responds to sexual jokes as a gauge to whether you should initiate. This has brought my hard no’s to almost zero. If you’re letting her give too many hard no’s you’re basically telling her she is the prize. You are the prize. Get that burned in your brain
Great observations about how her hamster works though- Subtle changes in your behavior/routine can also get that hamster moving. As soon as my wife could no longer guess or predict my day, her hamster went off. You have to have some mystery.
But, yes, passive dread is for closers.. Active dread is for AFC’s , and it will be exposed as fraud sooner or later because women have a much better social read on nonverbal communication, tone of voice... etc due to thousands of years of evolution in that area- this is also the same reason you can’t hide butthurt from her. But, I’ve found STFU is better than trying to BS through butthurt with words. She will read right through that shit.
But, if you can STFU it will get the hamster spinning even if she knows you’re butthurt because (like you implied) she doesn’t know what your thinking... for all she knows, you could be mustering up that butthurt to nail a chubby in the locker room at the gym.
So, good job with STFU, and good job with her hamster observations. I think you are on the right track, but keep reading, lifting, and creating passive dread. It’s a job that has no end. The good news is it gets fun once you start playing the game from your frame. You’re not there yet, but you will get there with time if you keep working on it.
hystericalbonding 7y ago
OI is an important first hurdle. Glad it's coming along. You've also provided a good lesson that you shouldn't be afraid to piss off your wife.
Her issues. Her problem. When your SMV is higher and game is stronger it won't matter. Decoding women's behavior will be unnecessary, and only for your amusement.
I always had mixed feelings about constant initiation. Initiate when you want to fuck, sure. But it can easily lead to being all pull, no push, or to her taking your interest in her for granted. Why should she put in any effort to attract you?
Have you read much PUA? Body language? IOI? It can be very useful to calibrate your escalation attempts. Take the green light sometimes, make her wait other times. Make better use of your time and attention when you're not interested in trying to turn a red light green.
OI is a good start. In hindsight, a rapport break before the hard no, before a soft no, could have been more fun. Right now she's still controlling the interaction, even if you're developing OI about the outcome.
lostdog1 7y ago
Totally agree on the constant pushing/initiating... its like poking and saying “now?”, getting shot down, and trying again in the morning. That’s not attractive. Pulling away and not being available adds mystery... take that time to improve yourself. Ignoring her for a time is the ultimate push, and initiating on your terms is the ultimate pull. You fuck when you want to fuck, and that’s the message you need to send unspoken... because if it’s not her, she knows you will fuck elsewhere, and passive dread lives.
outfo 7y ago
Keep these FRs coming. Helpful.
innominating 7y ago
Can confirm people fuck at the gym.
This is probably your wife telling you some of her “no” response are LMR and you are not taking her.
lostdog1 7y ago
Raises hand. Thanks tanning room! Thanks sauna!
[deleted] 7y ago
Indeed. I go to a keyed entry 24-hr gym, and I have walked in on stuff. They apparently knew the spot where the security cameras had a blind spot.. right in the middle of the BJJ matt, but used only for BJ.
MrChad_Thundercock 7y ago
“All of that to say this, passive dread works”
Sure does. Keeps that hamster spinning in its wheel.
rAFCdadHUSBAND 7y ago
I wonder if he would still get it 3x week with little or no initiating at all... isn't it possible that she simply wants it that much so that's what is happening?
PillUpAss 7y ago
My bet is yes, even if it’s just for her to feel like she’s contributing to the relationship while his value rises. I stopped initiating and am still at every other day, same as before.