I've been here for years and it's the same shit that trip up new guys. Instead of repeating their mistakes, read this.
You don’t lift hard enough
Lift. Not work out, lift.
And by lifting we mean lift heavy free weights with compound movements, and either be on a bulking or cutting diet. You should see your strength increase, if not you’re not pushing yourself hard enough in the gym or your diet is off.
You should see 2lbs gained per month when bulking (most of it muscle, and with newbie gains double that, can last 6 months for untrained guys). You should lose 1lbs per week on a cut (fat guys can diet much harder). Track your weight daily, track your calories, if your moving 2 week weight average isn’t hitting your goal, adjust calories.
You mistake your idea of a real man for being alpha
Men have a lot of ideas about what is important: success, money, being a leader, honorable or a good father. Good for you, you do you. But don’t for a second think any of that is alpha, it will not make girls wet.
Alpha is frame, game, and looks. A dumb poolboy or a lowlife criminal can hit peak alpha.
So don’t whine about how she doesn’t respond to what an amazing leader and entrepreneur you are. Focus on alpha.
You listen to your wife
Don’t. Listen. To. Your. Wife. It’s that simple.
What she says has no relevance to making you or her happy. It’s not a guide to a better marriage. In fact, it’s the opposite. Anything she says about you and your marriage is all deception and traps, it’s shit testing.
The only thing you should listen for is hooks for your A&As. Other than that, you don’t need to give her answers and under no circumstance should you actually do anything based on what she says.
For the autistic: you can still have normal conversations about stuff other than you or your marriage. But you’re not supposed to some frameless dancing monkey performing the ordered act.
You’re upset your wife is angry
First off, you shouldn’t worry about her moods.
Second, the end result of MRP is usually a happier wife but the process to get there sure doesn’t make her constantly happy. You’ll be upping your alpha and she’ll be shit testing you like crazy to make sure that you’re actually becoming fuckable. She’ll throw anger, tears, and scorn at you to see if she can find flaws in your frame. She'll say she's unhappy, that you're a cold asshole, that she needs love.
Don’t expect her to welcome your changes, in fact she’ll fight them. There will also be times when she’s sweeter and more horny; it’s perfectly normal that she’ll be responding to your higher alpha one day then being a shit testing harpy bitch the next.
Her cycle goes like this:
- hmm, maybe he is more alpha than I though, better shit test him harder than last time
- He passed, that’s hot!
- Repeat
Get used to the cycle. Learn to see her increased bitchiness as an interesting challenge to your frame, as flirting, as the lead up to better sex.
It’s not until the Main Event that she’ll calm down and submit. Until then, expect a rollercoaster.
You think your wife is a puzzle you have to solve
Sometimes guys come on here and explain how his wife does X and maybe it’s a sign she wants Y. No, she doesn’t want Y. She wants what it says on the sidebar. She’s not a snowflake, she’s a human female who gets wet from alpha and comfort from beta.
Even if she has physical or mental problems, she still functions like a human female. Her issues can result in other behaviors manifesting in addition to what we describe here on MRP, but it is in addition to. The fundamentals of attraction remain the same.
You’re angry at how women are
Yeah, it’s fucking unfair. Grow up and deal with it. No one gives a fuck about the female imperative or hypergamy outside of internet forums. Don’t talk about it, don’t get butthurt over it. It won’t fix you, it won’t improve your sexual strategy, it won’t convince your wife to become submissive.
Also, no one cares that you wife should have told what made her wet, or that you should have figured it out yourself, or whatever is making you bitter. It's called the sunk cost fallacy because it's stupid to worry about it but for some reason we're wired to do so. Now be a man about it and move on.
You go rambo
Let’s first talk about what going rambo is not. It’s not putting all the effort you can into lifting, dieting, doing fun stuff, being social. Some guys suggest that going rambo is putting in too much effort. It’s not, effort is good.
What is not good is expecting your wife to come around before you’ve seen the results of your work. Rambo is initiating too hard and getting angry at rejections, it’s talking dirty when your SMV can’t back it up, it’s thinking your wife is a bitch because she’s not submissive, it’s telling her to fuck you or fuck off because you’ve been hitting the gym for 2 months.
Relax, man. You’re supposed to build attraction. Be more attractive, don’t rage or be creepy.
You won’t play dread
You have to play dread. That doesn’t mean walking around and overtly flirting with women. But you should be social, talkative, demonstrating high value and seeing women respond with IOIs towards you. There’s a number of reasons for this: your own abundance mentality, your wife’s response to experiencing it, and as a measure of whether or not you’re actually high value. If strangers aren’t sexually interested in you, why the fuck should your wife be? Lack of IOIs is a clear sign you’re still unattractive.
You half-ass it
Some guys waste months twiddling their thumbs, working out a bit, trying to be funny, then wonder why it isn’t working.
Look, we’re not being hyperbolic when we talk about how we do things here. We can do one armed push ups. We grab our wives by the pussy. We make fun of them when they’re angry. We don’t give a fuck what they think. There’s a level of effort applied here that some guys for some reason think is unrealistic. It isn’t. Apply yourself.
You don’t switch into dominance and boundary enforcement
Eventually, she’ll be attracted to you but attraction will only take you so far. There will come a time when you have to become more dominant and enforce your boundaries. Some of her final resistance is next level shit testing, some is learned behaviors or issues she has. You have to power through that. Once she likes sex and affection from you, you’re going to plateau until you step it up and demand submission from her.
Becoming a high quality man with a horny wife is just phase one.
[deleted] 6y ago
I forgot Redpill existed until this morning. This was the most motovating shit I've read all week. Thank you.
I was gonna skip Gym today cause I've been sick, but fuck that. You restored me. Cheers!
[deleted] 6y ago
Before RP I was actually doing a bunch of stuff right, but if you fuck up a few it ruins everything else. Attraction is a complete package. I was shredded and getting tons of attention for years. I was a good leader and made good money, still wasn't getting the submissive nice wife. I was a codependent faggot looking for approval and being needy as fuck for validation from sex. It made me disgusting to my wife even if other women who didn't know me would fuck me based off my appearance and game. Once a woman sees you be a weak faggot and you lose frame it's over.
I failed because I had no frame. Many of the points speak to that. It's all about frame and game if you do the easy stuff like lift and lead. When I got here everyone called me a faggot and I couldn't believe it. I was blind and ignorant of what frame was. Establishing a solid frame changed everything for me. I'm still a faggot inwardly at times but at least she doesnt see it and I do my gay shit in my head privately. Its going to take years to fully unfuck myself and not have to fake anything anymore.
Great post, I will keep reading this and it should be in the sidebar if it isn't already.
SKRedPill 6y ago
And the last one
Failing to realize that MRP is ultimately about authenticity and honest outcomes.
Outcome independence. You might have started this game to repair your non-existent sex life and the contempt and lack of respect as the end goal. What MRP will do is help you succeed, but not necessarily within your relationship. If your relationship was still on authentic grounds somewhere, it will get better - a lot, lot better. If it was never authentic to begin with, and if there's shit that's FUBAR, that will become clear soon enough and it will die. If you don't recognize this, somewhere you will get attached enough to a particular outcome to fall back into your old ways rather than realizing the truth.
I've seen my folks, I know their issues can be fixed by Level 3 dread - hell even the 1st 2 levels would fix 90% of it - in that sense it's still more solid underneath than what it seems. I've also seen others who are totally afraid of the growth process because they KNOW deep down that if they do this, their relationship is doomed - there is a non-zero chance that it may turn around after a very turbulent and prolonged transformation, but in a few cases I know that a new relationship is simply far more efficient. Experience just starts giving you a sixth sense about it.
If things do unfold like this, you didn't actually fail. You just realized that you can never flog a dead horse back to life. But that's where the abundance really comes in. You only fail where you become dependent on a dishonest outcome. I learn that lesson the hard way, but I have no regrets about it. In trying to please everyone, I ended up pleasing no one, least of all myself.
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
Stinky-Poo 6y ago
This one is hard for me.
BusterVadge 6y ago
This is so very true. Accept things the way that they are and adapt to overcome.
JDRoedell 6y ago
Excellent refresher. Sometimes basic rehashing of the core principles is well needed here.
surfsusa 6y ago
This drives my wife crazy. I am very social and do not flirt. At work there are a lot of women who interact with me, some of them are overt with their interest. My wife sees the other women's IOIs and starts shit testing me and demanding that I change companies or move to a different location. It doesn't matter if I do, it starts all over in the new place. (I had to move to another office one time when the owner lost her franchise and folded)
[deleted] 6y ago
[removed]
Sepean 6y ago
Enjoy your ban, blooper.
[deleted] 6y ago
[removed]
Sepean 6y ago
No. 11: listening to bloopers.
marriedrpnotmarried 6y ago
Listen, but do not react. Outside critique is beneficial, but you are the one who has to decide if it is warranted or not. I would say that *not* listening is actually an even better way to fail than listening. inb4 "obviously," but it should the difference between not listening and not reacting should be distinguished.
SirJoseppi 6y ago
Hooks for A&As? What are those?
BurnedRemains 6y ago
The only thing I've ever disagreed with in Redpill philosophy is dread. Maybe because I don't fully understand. How I see it: negative relationship building.
I think you need to build trust, honesty and forgiveness not "oh if you don't act right I'm gonna go fuck 25 chicks!" How the fuck is a woman supposed to place trust and invest in her man if she constantly thinks he's cheating or will walk out at any moment for any reason. That's a huge insecurity I don't wish to bring to a relationship. That shit isn't healthy for either party.
SKRedPill 6y ago
No Rambo. Go read some romance novels and see how subtle this is. You literally sound like a rambo or that kid who thinks sex is when his mum and dad wrestle naked.
Your idea lacks any kind of nuance or slow growth or real life experience. Intellectual but unintelligent. Your virtues are only correct on paper, but you have no knowledge of physical and emotional aspects of relationships.
Trust is only the comfort side of things. Investment is providership. But Sex is by nature agitating and entirely based on attraction.
Dread is basically letting her know that she is only one part of your life, and if your relationship isn't authentic, you are not so attached and needy that you will compromise yourself for a liability.
You don't know anything about dread because you haven't even tried to lift or pass testy stuff or even observe her behavior. Don't you even try taking a step further, let alone jump right into level 11.
Go read the 12 levels of dread, take months to go up one level. If your relationship is good, you will not need more than the first few levels. If you have to go past level 10, your relationship probably died a long long time ago.
johnn2015 6y ago
It’s about creating drama and turmoil to get the woman’s emotions going. She will associate the emotion with love. With all due respect, if a woman get 100% peace and trust from her man she will be bored out of her mind and you will get the I love you but not in love with you speech.
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
BurnedRemains 6y ago
I can see this as being true but to me it just builds a mental health issue. I've been wrong before.
Sepean 6y ago
Where did you get the idea that dread is about threatening to fuck other girls? Anyone who has to resort to that (overtly or implied) has so low an SMV that it won’t work anyway.
BurnedRemains 6y ago
No idea that's just how I saw it. Like I said, I'm probably misinterpreting.
Sepean 6y ago
This is pretty much the official MRP post on dread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/2lpafb/the_12_step_plan_of_dread_book_excerpt_from_my/
And frankly I can’t remember anyone who did level 8 and had to go to level 9.
You should read it, it should give you a better understanding of what we mean by dread.
HerukaArisen 6y ago
Thank you for this post. There is a lot to digest here.
This has been a tricky one for me:
Yeah, I'm one of the autistic ones. I agree with all the basic RP truths, such as "Pay attention to her actions, not her words." But at the same time, I have made mistakes by doing things the way I want with no consideration at all for what my wife thinks.
I have had to reconsider my thinking here. I think that sometimes I need to listen to some of the things my wife says, also on important matters. This does not mean that I let her dictate things or make the final decision. Nor do I discuss things such as sex with her. But, as an example, in financial decisions I can be very clear what needs to be done but leave it open for discussion how it is done.
We have all these metaphors of the captain and the first officer and so on. Lately, I have been viewing my role as the chairman of the board. And this board also includes my children. If I'm really honest, especially my two youngest children are often very clear in their thinking. If I listen to them, I can make decisions that are better for the whole, and myself, than if I would just trod on doing things the way I want and think is right.
I know there is a fine balance here. Many guys here err on the side of "I said, she said." Too many times, I have erred on the side of not paying any attention to others in my family and then wondering why no one, myself included, has fun.
SKRedPill 6y ago
Let's add nuance to it - don't listen to anything she tells you about attraction or alpha. She has no idea what she's saying.
The color of the curtains is another story. It has nothing to do with her tingles.
Men know, women feel.
HerukaArisen 6y ago
The thing is, I really don't care what she says about alpha, attraction, sex, our relationship or most other things. The tricky things are our children and our finances. These two things are not the same as "relationship", yet they are not entirely separate from it, either. And yes, more often than not, my view on these two things is probably more thought-out, rational, practical and so on. But since our finances overlap and our children have two parents, if I autistically ignore her view, in the end things will not turn out well FOR ME. This is the tricky area for me, but I'm progressing.
SKRedPill 6y ago
Looks like a mini rambo issue to me. Happens to most of us at the start. Change happens slowly, step by step. We all learn the devils in the details only by doing.
Sepean 6y ago
It’s just the stuff about you and your relationship you shouldn’t listen to. Everything else, while she might throw a shit test in there it’s usually well meaning. If you do the grocery shopping you don’t have to fight her on what she planned to make for dinner.
HerukaArisen 6y ago
You're absolutely right. Somehow the more autistic ones of us, like myself, manage to take "Do not listen to your wife" too literally and turn it into some sort of autistic version of Rambo, thinking that not paying attention to anyone else is leadership.
bat006 6y ago
Great post.
Hell. If that is phase 1, what is phase 2?
Aditya77-scorpio 6y ago
Very important post. Commenting so I never lose it.
Twolate4dinner 6y ago
Vc
SteelSharpensSteel 6y ago
Great list, Sepean.
BobbyPeru 6y ago
Yep, I can see it from a mile away. It’s kind of fun at this point.
True, but it’s important for new guys to fully understand the first couple levels. A common newbie mistake is to skip to more active dread. I like what you said about IOI being a gauge. It’s also great dread, and just being social in general gives plausible deniability.
I literally did this on a plane today subtly in front of many and she giggled like a schoolgirl
Good shit here. I remember it well when the shit tests went turbo mode. Threw me for a prettty big loop at first. I was like”oh, I thought I was Chad, and now I’m raging at the new shit tests.” The key is to just internalize frame , and that takes time.
Solid write-up
mrHoebot 6y ago
Can you give some examples of what bigger crazier shit tests look like?
BobbyPeru 6y ago
That’s relationship dependent because remember... she knows your specific weak areas. That’s where she shall Target.... but it happens subtly and when you least expect it
SKRedPill 6y ago
I'll tell you what, for a man, his version of labor pain is everything he has to go through in creating a new relationship. Women's labor is the consequence of sex, a man's labor is that of commitment. It's hard, but we're ready. I failed to realize that turning the ship around requires you to essentially destroy yourself, herself and the relationship to make room for a new one.
You can get shit-tested to the crossover point where detonating this relationship and starting a new one can actually be easier, that is if you do not enforce the boundaries before that. On this very subreddit, I've read about extended shit testing periods that last for months. Sometimes it can and does take a couple of years for a true turnaround.
My dad's listening a little bit to a couple of nuggets I tossed his way from here, but he fails quite easily because he doesn't know just how far those tests can go. The day he stops believing that my mum is actually reasonable in a discussion is still far down the road and that will be the beginning of his awakening.
Meanwhile, as their only son, I get surprised by how many "paternal" shit tests and hamstering I face every time I go home because I'm lifting, changing my diet, my wardrobe and meditating now - it's so much that even relatives notice it at family gatherings and tell my folks I'm a grown man now. I do not think my mum will stop shit testing me over protein and exercise and my kidneys until she sees a healthy set of them when I turn 60. And those are just parent-child. It never ends. As you put on muscle and shed that fat, they just keep coming like more dakka. But body language doesn't lie - there's a new respect where there wasn't before.
Women in all relationships shit test and dread exists in all relationships - the thing is, in non-sexual relationships, like siblings for e.g., there's almost nothing to lose, so people just have fun celebrating a shit storm festival. The ones in sexual relationships are a special dimension, and needy attachments and the stakes make us forget that they just need to be dealt similarly (but with a strong sexual flavor).
Women have no idea what's going on when you start to change really - they're not so grounded as men that understanding is their first language - they do panic. Much of it is totally on blind instinct. You have to treat them like the toddler they are.
Onein1024th 6y ago
You're Upset Your Wife is Angry at You
For some reason this one trips me up often. She gets mad at me over stupid shit and I get annoyed and surly at her for getting pissy. What does the right response to her being pissed look like? Do you leave? What if it's at an inappropriate time to just up and leave?
Edit: also what emotionally does this look like, what frame does that come in?
Reject444 6y ago
My wife doesn't get angry at ME very often (hardly ever), but she's often pissed off or complaining about other stuff that puts her in a bad mood--something the kids have done, or some plan she had for her day that didn't work out, or something minor that happened to one of her family members (who all live on the other side of the country from us). I bear the brunt of this one way or another--again, she doesn't usually take it out on me directly but it puts her in a bad mood and makes her surly and annoying to be around, and if she's in a bad mood there is no chance she'll agree to sex. I often struggle with the right response--do I hang around and give her support and try to use humor or my general masculine awesomeness to help her improve her mood, or do I just bail and go do something else because she's no fun when she's like this and I have better things to do?
Maximus_Valerius 6y ago
If you’re not creating emotional tension (gaming her and creating feelz), she will start creating her own by pushing your buttons over stupid shit. Get out ahead of her by creating tension.
Here’s an approach that helped me: If she’s getting mad over trivial stupid shit, imagine that she’s a four-year-old and she just called you a poopy face. Do you get surly when a four-year-old does this? Or, like LongRoad said, do you have fun with that little girl?
[deleted] 6y ago
The correct response is to have fun with it and amuse yourself. If you can't do this then STFU. Of course she gets mad at stupid shit. She's a woman. Own your shit and enjoy it.
If she's being disrespectful then it's time to state your boundary and walk away. Calmly and in control.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
I'm going to provide some specifics for Onein1024th since he seems a little retarded. My comments align with your response to him.
My wife is pissed at me. Increasingly so over the last couple days. She's even pissed at our kids, of course because she's really pissed at me.
She's got laser-dagger-eyes for me, oooh I'm so scared.
Why is she pissed?
So. She's quite pissed. I notice it. She's made every effort to be sure I notice it.
It doesn't phase me.
Realizing that I've been doing my own thing a lot lately, I invite her to the beach.
She says a bunch of stuff that can best be translated as: "blah, blah, blah."
The actual words that came out of her mouth were: "you can go to the beach, you can go to the office, you can go wherever you like, you don't need to do anything with me."
My response: "I know."
My thought: "Lol."
So I made my coffee and followed-up, asking her if she wanted to go or not: "so do you want to go to the beach with me or not" I asked again.
She replied: "No."
So I went to the beach, then after went to the office, next I'm going to a movie, then I'm meeting a buddy for dinner.
You ask "what emotionally does this look like, what frame does that come in?"
I'm not entirely sure what the fuck Chinese you're spewing, though it sounds suspiciously like weird-ass womaneeze to me, but I'll try to answer:
Emotionally, for me, this looks like me going to the beach (awesome), going to the office (cool), going to the movie (John Wick 3), and going to dinner (fantastic). Emotionally I'm peachy.
In terms of frame, she has hers, I have mine.
It's that simple.
tldr:
Whatever the fuck response you choose and you shouldn't be basing your responses on her behavior anyway.
Onein1024th 6y ago
guilty as charged. some of this shit takes a while for me to absorb. Thanks for the response. I'll be reading it later today.
SKRedPill 6y ago
You also need to get clever and creative at punishing bad behavior (without any abuse or falling foul of the law of course). We don't talk about punishments here on RP enough, but a good leader should be quite strong when it comes to enforcing principles. Punishments aren't applied because you're butt hurt, they're applied when things become unacceptable.
As you can see, almost all laws are all about getting people to comply and punishing them if they don't. The very reason so many laws exist in the first place would tell you what the nature of human beings is.
And people respect such governments who are uncompromising on high standards btw. Governments that bend over too much get overrun by corruption and inefficiency pretty quickly.
Onein1024th 6y ago
I have a toddler, and sometimes the similarities are uncanny. Firm boundaries.
What are some of the firm boundaries you set with your wife? NMMNG took me a LONG time to digest; I still don't think I have as firm of a grasp on setting boundaries as I would like to
SKRedPill 6y ago
I divorced. Mine was a horrific tale, one that got worse because yours truly was BP incarnate and she was BPD - so authentically I should have never even got into that one. The only firm boundary there was never and that's exactly what happened.
What I'm saying works well on normal people. One success story here basically turned around from the day one guy took off his wedding ring, another when he banished her to the couch instead, yet another by implementing real dread, one guy actually gave her a playful slap on her ass when she was screaming at him in front of his friends - it worked!
My dad is incredibly bluepilled, but he managed to get out of a cycle of contempt by simply driving away in his car without telling anyone where he went. I can't tell you how much my mum suddenly started missing him and regretting it - she also had to get an earful from me. Trouble is, he needs someone like the vanguards here to fix the rest. Damn, it was almost textbook!
One dad on quora was concerned enough by his bratty teenage daughter that he did the best thing possible, he removed her bedroom door and didn't screw it back on till she learned her lesson.
hack3ge 6y ago
The important take away here isn't the actual action - its that action was taken from within in his frame. The most effective response is always the most authentic.
RisingUpAgain 6y ago
I’m going to guess, and maybe some others have observed the same. That almost all of us go through a Rambo phase. The blinders are off and god dammit WERE MEN SO WHY ARENT PEOPLE LISTENING TO/ RESPECTING/ ADMIRING US.
The key is to be able to step back for a second, and realize what you’re doing and the net negative that your Rambo behavior is causing. A little Rambo can reset the tone for a second but too much is just digging yourself a deeper hole to climb out of once you realize how much the behavior isn’t helping. Go Rambo and mistake some comfort tests as shit tests and you’re going to be taking steps backwards.
My father talked a lot about diplomacy and tact. I think our imperative is to try to force others to give us the respect that we think we deserve because now we’re doing what we’re “supposed to.” But there is something to be said for patience and the long game.
Winning the battle means nothing if it loses you the war.
[deleted] 6y ago
"Winning the battle means nothing if it loses you the war."
You have to play the long game. You've fucked up for years and can't expect an instant change. This is what caused my Rambo phase. I'm doing all this shit just like the guys on MRP, but my wife is still being a bitch.
One day you wake up and the focus is on yourself and finding everything you can do to improve. But that takes months of hard work.
Chump_No_More 6y ago
There is no long game, there is only your journey.
bogeyd6 6y ago
Thank you for this comment. I forget who said doctrine is the refuge for the unimaginative. Many of us forget to first fight the battles you are in and decide to go loaner. It's easy to say for a man to do this or that but its an entirely different view point from inside a failed family.
johnmic07 6y ago
Hard to keep track of all the acronyms this group uses. A&A? IOI? Help out a new guy...
Sepean 6y ago
Read the sidebar.
witnessthenomorebp 6y ago
IOI is indicators of interest. Agree and Amplify is A and A. I have a shit memory and so reading it wasn't enough. Had to ask too.
weakandsensitive 6y ago
Sure. Bye.