Your average person sucks at finances. I expect you to suck at finances too.
Salary
From a financial perspective, there is your floor and there is your ceiling. The most important thing you can do for your own stability is to raise your floor. This means getting the skills you need to get to a comfortable amount of money to live on at a bare minimum.
We found that the ideal income point is $95,000 for life evaluation and $60,000 to $75,000 for emotional well-being... this amount is for individuals and would likely be higher for families -- [Source]
In Canada and the United States, an income of $105,000 provides the most life satisfaction, while globally the ideal average income is $95,000.
If you're not there, figure out how you get there. That's your floor.
When you hit a good floor, figure out how to raise your ceiling. Here's what you don't do - don't raise your ceiling by trading more hours. That's stupid. You're not making more money. You're just investing more time. Figure out how to get your $/hr up.
Investing
Warren Buffet has 2 simple rules for investing. Don't forget the 2 rules.
- Never lose money.
- Never forget rule No. 1.
I'm a shitty investor. For the most part, I find it boring. People will tell you that if you invest $10,000 today, in 30 years, it'll be worth $60,000! What they don't tell you is the vast majority of gains happen on the tail end. Do you know how much that $10,000 is going to be in 10 years? $18,200. A whopping $8,200 over 10 years. If you can take that $10,000 and do something tangible that will result in $8,200 or more of actual or implicit value within 10 years (for example, raising your salary ceiling), it's a much better way to spend your money. Where's the fun in watching your money grow by 6% annualized year after year?
Did you think that last paragraph was good advice? If you did, you weren't paying attention. You forgot rule #2. Instead of $8,200 of virtually a sure thing, you decided to take on more risk betting that you could execute a strategy that'll get you higher returns. My retirement accounts comprise about 50% of my cash value. These retirement accounts are all broad market ETFs since I have a 30+ year time frame. I set it, put my 401k contributions in, and forget it. You put in $15,000 a year and let it grow for 30 years, and you're looking at $1.2M. Can't afford $15,000 a year to add to a 401k? Go back to the salary section.
Gambling
Not literal gambling, but rather higher risk investment options. The type of investments that can potentially lose you some or all of your money.
The first rule of gambling is:
- Never
investgamble money that you can't afford to lose.
No payout will ever be worth losing what you can't afford to lose. And if you're going to gamble, you're better off assuming you're going to lose it all - but hopefully the experience you gain from losing it will be worth the cost.
That said -- if you're going to gamble with money you can afford to lose, my advice is Roth IRA Options Trading. Highly leveraged tax free earnings. You'll probably lose it all, but at least it's fun!
Debt
The simple rule of thumb here is don't carry debt. If you have to ask whether, the answer is "No".
The smarter way to handle debt is that it's a tool to be used. Can you get more value out of the debt than the cost? For example, we're moving soon and buying a new house. Generally, people suggest a 20% down payment.
I look at that and it's just not smart. Current interest rates are at 3%, markets have had a 30-40% pullback, and I see absolutely no reason why I would want to part with more cash. Instead, I take the 5% down payment, some tiny amount of PMI due to my credit score, and keep an extra $50,000 cash on hand to invest in stocks.
It's the same reason I have car payments. Could I pay off the car completely? Sure, but why would I want to?
The bottom line is this, if you're going to take on debt, don't ever be in a position where you can't pay off everything within 1 month if you need to. As a grown ass adult, your job is to figure out how to use debt to make you more money. Don't be in a position where your debt can be used to enslave you.
FIRE
FIRE is bullshit. Get to a point in your life and career where you can have a "fuck you" mindset regarding money because you know your market worth and can execute on that even in a massive pandemic and recession.

keepingittogether20 6y ago
Income is important, and a key component of earning high income (if working for a company) is providing VALUE to your employer and then effectively DEMANDING that you are compensated for your value. I have had success with negotiating pay structures that are based on gross profit. Meaning that I will take a modest base salary with a monthly or quarterly bonus that is a predetermined percentage of company profit before a high salary with no incentives any day. This, combined with an effective real estate strategy has skyrocketed my net worth in the past 8 years.
That being said,
One key component of finances is mastering your SPENDING. It does not matter if you make 120k a year if you are spending 140k. But if you make 90k and spend 50k then you are 12 years away from not needing to "work for money" no matter what your age. If you can summon the discipline to spend 50k when making 120k you are less than 6 years from this goal (FIRE for me is not about actually retiring early, but it is about the ABILITY to walk away from "working for money" if I want to)
I am a huge fan of https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ when it comes to spending advice. He goes a bit more intense than I do, but the concepts are great. The book "Your Money or Your Life" is also a great read. It pushes the concept that money is simply a tool that you have traded your life energy for, and can use to obtain freedom on multiple levels.
One of the biggest money drains that Americans suck at is their car. In my area it is very common for a family to have 2 LEASED SUVS at $500/month each. Combine those payments with gas and insurance, that is an easy $20k per year just GONE. Buying high quality, efficient vehicles can easily cut this number in half without sacrificing capability or comfort.
After that is simply not paying attention to what is going out. For example: I am currently selling a home, buying a home and refinancing my investment property, all at the same time. When negotiating with my buyers and sellers I was able to keep an extra $13k between the sale transactions, and negotiating with my realtor and lenders saved me an additional $3500 in commissions and fees. It does not matter what my income level is, $16k+ is a legitimate amount of money. I am doing the same thing shopping around and negotiating with vendors for the remodel work on my new home.
The same can be done with subscriptions, groceries, medical, workout equipment (found my olympic weight set for $225 and a nice used bench for $30), technology, and all of the odds and ends that we want and need to get us through life. No matter what I am spending my money (life energy) on I make sure it is high quality and that I am paying the best possible price for it. Over the course of a year this will add up to thousands. Compounded year over year and you are talking about SERIOUS dollars. Combine this with high income and a sound investment strategy and you have bought your financial freedom.
FIRE is not bullshit. FIRE is freedom.
red-sfpplus 6y ago
The best way to make money is to have other people give you theirs by choice. By providing a product or service they need.
The best way to ensure longevity is to target the upper class with products and services they need.
The upper class is typically insulated fairly well from economic downturns.
vithus_inbau 6y ago
The Art of Selling to the Affluent - Matt Oechsli
No BS Marketing to the Affluent - Dan Kennedy
Selling Luxury - Lent and Tour
The Celebrity Experience - Donna Cutting
simbarlion 6y ago
Regards circa $100k for life satisfaction and spending.... it not the salary but how you perceive the value of having more. If you're trying to fill a bucket with lots of holes, what's the better strategy... Plug the holes or keep trying to pour more water in?
A quote to live from uncle Seneca:
It's not the man with little, but the man who craves more, that is poor.
SteelSharpensSteel 6y ago
It's sad that people don't take the time to learn about money. I really enjoyed reading The Millionaire Next Door - millionaires "allocate their time, energy, and money efficiently, in ways conducive to building wealth. Millionaires budget. They also plan their investments. They begin earning and investing early in life." Lots of people don't. Don't be a sheep. If You Can is a good short read - but most people won't do the hard work to learn about this stuff anyway. But then again, is that such a surprise.
frozenpond 6y ago
Love this book. millionaire next door and rich dad poor dad have been worth at least 1000x my college education.
Joeytrib1985 6y ago
Thank you for If You Can btw. I'm going to read it tomorrow. And keep reading it until every fucking word sticks.
threekindsoflucky 6y ago
Call me a simp, but my only financial strategy is to pay off my mortgage as fast as possible and get out of debt. I don't invest. I have savings that are in my mortgage offset account. In terms of retirement, it sits in my super (not sure what the American equivalent would be).
I've thought about investing but every time I do, I just go, well its a safer option to just pay off my debt and worry about investing when its all gone.
Which is probably why I'll never be wealthy.
Over60_FireTempered3 6y ago
Actually you are investing.
Paying off debt is the single highest paying guaranteed investment you can make. The return is guaranteed. The rate of return is actually higher than the stated interest of your loans.
Until you complete these investments, why gamble with money you don't yet have?
threekindsoflucky 6y ago
That's a good way to frame it. It seemed like a sensible strategy to me. I have a lot of friends who invest but they don't own homes so it makes more sense for them to make their money work for them.
I didn't realize that. I'm not entirely sure how that works in practice.
Over60_FireTempered3 6y ago
Hard to show without using a financial calculator.
But you can get the general idea by using an online calculator to add extra principal to pay off your mortgage payment over time. Then calculate the total of payments, including extra principal, made over the shortened time frame. Compare that to the total of payments you would have made. Take the difference of the total amounts paid, or the amount of interest you saved, then calculate the rate of return spread across the shortened time frame. That rate of return will be greater than the stated interest amount of the loan, unless the loan has only a couple of years left.
It's not a math trick, it's just the way that amortization schedules distort the real amount that you pay for borrowing.
Loaning money is only good if you are the one loaning it. Companies have convinced consumers that borrowing money is a good thing. It isn't. "Sixteen tons, what do you get...."
Just one more thing, I became debt free many years ago, and, I keep five years of living expenses in liquid assets. F-U money is a way of life for some.
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
Over60_FireTempered3 6y ago
Never forget that real estate is an equity asset, subject to market fluctuation. Like stocks, should be bought when on sale.
SteelSharpensSteel 6y ago
Good point to remember. Bought my first home at the height of the financial crisis when real estate was at the lowest point - when I sold last year, I had a gain of 300k.
Always try to buy when the market is down, but also don't ignore fundamentals.
Over60_FireTempered3 6y ago
300K You did well pilgrim...
To your point, since we need a place to live, sometimes you don't give to pick your entry point. Where buying low is an option is second homes and investment real estate.
Bet you could buy some mall property cheap this year. :)
weakandsensitive 6y ago
The Western Australian real estate market took a massive s** when oil crashed. Not a great investment in that part of the world.
threekindsoflucky 6y ago
I don't have a good feeling for anywhere else in the world, but it does seem like Australians are mad for investment properties.
I don't see property (outside of having my own paid off) as a good long term financial strategy. I have litte interest in acquiring and renting or selling multiple properties. Having said that, I bought land and built my current house. Did a good job of it so now the estimated (conservative) value exceeds the cost by $70-90k even with the downturn.
I will probably buy a bigger house and then have to decide if I want to play the property game or sell my old place upon purchase.
All that aside, I suspect I'm going to be asked to front up a large sum of cash to become a shareholder in my current company. Given how it's performing (especially in the Covid-19 market) this sound like a good investment to me.
Persaeus 6y ago
my two cents:
Zombie-apocalypse dollar averaging in my view of the market, i have not figured out how to predict the highs (i.e. timing a sell). however, i can pick a bottom when the world is on fire and people are jumping out of buildings. since the mid-90's my strategy has been to put in about 70-80% of that "rule of thumb" number every week. waiting for what appears to me to be the inevitable market crash (down greater than 20% in short order, then i start buying with that money and more). again, averaging - a buy every week as the market collapses until get about 1/2 way over that rule of thumb.
it's worked great. wife and I have invested equal amounts into 401k into roughly same investments for ~30 years, i got 40% more than her right now versus her completely passive strategy.
investment advisors - JUST DON'T. you're literally paying people to lose money.
liquidity
the only goal in liquidity is to have enough cash to avoid doing anything financially stupid (like cashing your 401k or selling an asset at a loss or your kids not going to college/selling crack). there's obviously two side to liquidity - how much you need and how much you got. if you're young, no kids, renting - this number is pretty low and you're focus should be maxing the high return/poor liquidity investments. if you have kids and the bank owns your house, this number will be much larger (a year or two of bare minimum living expenses; but i'm pretty conservative in this regard). you should also have term life insurance until kids are grown or near-grown and college is paid for. after that, shit can your insurance. no need to give the wife a big payday.
Over60_FireTempered3 6y ago
In the vein of avoiding loss, and having liquid to buy opportunities, do not reinvest your dividends automatically. Hold them out of equities.
Dollar cost averaging is not all it's cracked up to be. Allowing funds to accumulate as liquid, gives you more opportunity money. I think Mr. Buffet is holding 134 billion of uninvested liquid assets at the moment. He isn't always right, but his deep value process has worked over time.
markpf73 6y ago
Liquidity - have it on hand to take advantage of opportunities when they are on sale in a fire. 2010-11 I looked at a south beach condo that was on sale for 450k. By 2018 it was listing for 2.0M. Too bad I was broke then and couldn’t afford a second home...but I’m not now. Just waiting for opportunity to present.
Persaeus 6y ago
i agree with the opportunities of liquidity
weakandsensitive 6y ago
The 529 wasn't any good for me. No match, shitty investment choices, and marginal tax benefits on top of spending restrictions. I just opened an investment account for my daughter.
Persaeus 6y ago
it's certainly not as generous a tax benefit in your state as mine (unlimited contributions, 6% marginal, and can revolve money in the same year). Still though, i'm guessing you're passing up a 8-10% return on year 1 savings, and similar on gains.
[deleted] 6y ago
You forgot "can't go broke taking a profit".
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While not wrong, I have to say that despite hearing all this stuff many times over the years and applying them >99% of the time, I still lost >$1mm gambling and more than I could afford on more than one occassion.
I know a lot of guys like that, albeit to a lesser degree, but only two private investors (i.e. trading their own money) IRL that have had long term success.
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I think the most useful thing you can do is accept that, while being responsible for your actions, in reality you have a wingman (or possibly co-pilot [probably in my case headpilot and I am back in economy]) hardwired into your brain that acts as the agent between your logical strategy and its execution. No amount of mindset coaching can get around that.
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Good book on the subject here:
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The Hour Between Dog and Wolf
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For a more rigorous case of why you are probably not Warren Buffet and the dangers of "picking up pennies in front of a steam roller" in the meantime:
The Black Swan
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10/10 would do again though.
Persaeus 6y ago
i figured (and glad) you'd chime in.
never heard that, but man i really like that one.
not surprised by the tale on two of many successes. you can make tons of pretty graphs about the weather, but it really tells you fuck all about whether or not it's going to rain next week or not.
[deleted] 6y ago
Funny thing is I got to pretty big numbers starting from scratch more than once but of those two examples: one started off of a six figure HR settlement, one off 300k from a novelty side gig. Both completely unexpected windfalls.
weakandsensitive 6y ago
I'm jelly about the gambling losses.
[deleted] 6y ago
You’re welcome to take them. Feel free to DM for loss porn.
InChargeMan 6y ago
Serious question, how do you mentally deal with that? I think I have maybe an unusually high aversion to loss. I fucking hate losing, drives me nuts, which in some ways pushes me to be successful in life, but I can see that I am possibly preventing further grown by being too conservative.
[deleted] 6y ago
My own benchmark is moving past the craving to mentally replay events.
Eating healthy, cutting out booze and caffeine and listing and scheduling everything from debt management to “meditate for 10min” definitely helps - moving on is literally just moving on.
RStonePT 6y ago
I've found far better ROI on skills than I ever have in the market. During Rona I've been playing around with some bottomed out stocks with good fundamentals and they are up 40% which is nice... But I also wrote a book in this time which made 2x as much in the same period of time, and hasn't stopped yet.
My old job paid better than both but now I have 60 hours a week on whatever I want.
SBIII 6y ago
What's the book called?
RStonePT 6y ago
FUCCFILES: Lessons from a decade of women
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
When does it come out on Audible?
RStonePT 6y ago
Once I can finish recording it
SBIII 6y ago
I'll check it out - cheers.
so_woke_da_wookie 6y ago
I was looking forward to this week. The brevity and utility of your post are exactly what I need.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
I suppose it depends on any given individual's interpretation of this:
Sometimes, it would appear that you can't afford it, when in fact, you can.
It just takes a few extra years and some introspection to realize as much.
weakandsensitive 6y ago
Definitely a point to be made about what you think you can afford to lose versus what you can really afford to lose.
dust2dust45 6y ago
You need $1,000 right now cash emergency fund. Without this small issues will become worse.
You need to live below your means (income).
If you’re an average W2 (paycheck) employee, you need to be saving at least 15% of gross to have the hope of retirement and flexibility to handle life emergencies.
Read Dave Ramsey “total money makeover.” Read Mr money mustache for ways to reduce frivolous spending.
-Saving is the first step to investing. Edit- Let me rephrase: If you don’t have $1,000 cash emergency fund- you’re wrong. If you have any debt other than mortgage-you’re wrong. If you don’t have 6-12mo of expenses saved- you’re wrong. If you don’t save 15% of gross- you’re wrong. If your annual expenses are more than 4% of your investments by age 50, you’re wrong.
Get yourself right. After that, then we can talk options, leverage, and private placements
Over60_FireTempered3 6y ago
After you get the $1000, think about how secure your income is. If you lose your job, or your business, how long would it take you to replace your income and start paying the bills again? If that was 3 months, then your current monthly requirements ($3000) - times 3 months. That might be more like $9,000 or more in reserve.
Some people got a sudden loss of income from COVID. Those with reserves have grocery money.
chillanous 6y ago
More like 10k to have any peace of mind.
1k isn't even an insurance max.
Breaking_the_beta 6y ago
You’re right, but as a solid first step, $1K should be the goal. I would wager 99% of people out there today don’t even have that. 8 months ago, I was part of that 99%.
Once that is established, crush your debt, then move into saving a 3-6 month “I lost my job” fund. That’s where your 10K rolls in. Total Money Makeover isn’t a long term perfect strategy, but it’s an easy solid foundation to start building from. Check it out...it’s an easy read.
theycallmenubs 6y ago
My portfolio is around 90% real estate, the biggest risk being geographical, that is, the actual town losing a large employer or going downhill for some reason.
Edit: it's freaking funny you mentioned options in a Roth. I gambled with them and made 49.5k in less than 2 months, then lost 42.5k in 10 days. Luckily ended up positive 7k but it devolved into a true gambling addiction and I had to stop completely.
weakandsensitive 6y ago
I took 7.5k in feb and turned it into 45k now. I took profits and reduced exposure. Too much murk in the water. Hard to go broke taking profits. But yeah -- I love roth options.
ancient_resistance 6y ago
Interesting. Do your investments consistently outperform the extra expense (interest+PMI) of carrying loans?
weakandsensitive 6y ago
Historical broad market gains are 7% annually over the 10+ year window. Our markets are not at peaks and mortgage rates are incredibly low. If the market doesn't outperform the mortgage rate over the next 15 years, I'm just buying guns and ammo because it means we have much bigger problems.
Quoted APR with the PMI is 3.2%.
ancient_resistance 6y ago
In this climate, seems better to hang on to the $50k. Keep it semi-liquid in case the markets don't perform to historical standards, or have I missed something?
weakandsensitive 6y ago
Ah. I gotcha.
We needed to move because of my daughters starting kindergarten at a school 40 minutes away from where we're at currently.
SoggyTrain 6y ago
https://www.amazon.com/MONEY-Master-Game-Financial-Freedom/dp/1476757860
This book is a great starting point if you are new to investing. TLDR is buy low cost index funds. Warren Buffet now says the same thing and has his family doing it. Also, fire your financial advisor.
[deleted] 6y ago
The aggregated capital of retail investors pouring into the indiscriminate, continuous and automated purchase of a single asset class over a period of decades.
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Literally cannot go tits up.
BostonBrakeJob 6y ago
John...is that you?
https://youtu.be/rJjKP8vYjpQ
brianmcg321 6y ago
40% Total Market Index
40% Long Term Treasuries
20% Gold
You're welcome everyone.
weakandsensitive 6y ago
For that 3% gain? Pretty soon you'll be a thousandaire!
brianmcg321 6y ago
Back test it yourself.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio#analysisResults