A fundamental core principle here is that you are the judge of yourself. This means that you have to be a very tough judge, look at those areas you never want to look at, understand your weaknesses, accept them, and then plan to overcome them. Bravery is facing these challenges, and overcoming the challenges is the source of your strength.
We have to do this evaluation all the time to improve as men. In this thread we welcome everyone to disclose a weakness they have discovered about themselves that they are working on. The idea is similar to some of the activities in “No More Mr. Nice Guy”. You are responsible for identifying your weakness or mistakes, and even better, start brainstorming about how to become stronger. Mistakes are the most powerful teachers, but only if we listen to them.
Think of this as a boxing gym. If you found out in your last fight your legs were stiff, we encourage you to admit this is why you lost, and come back to the gym decided to train more to improve that. At the gym the others might suggest some drills to get your legs a bit looser or just give you a pat in the back. It does not matter that you lost the fight, what matters is that you are taking steps to become stronger. However, don’t call the gym saying “Hey, someone threw a jab at me, what do I do now?”. We discourage reddit puppet play-by-play advice. Also, don't blame others for your shit. This thread is about you finding how to work on yourself more to achieve your goals by becoming stronger.
Finally, a good way to reframe the shit to feel more motivated to overcome your shit is that after you explain it, rephrase it saying how you will take concrete measurable actions to conquer it. The difference between complaining about bad things, and committing to a concrete plan to overcome them is the difference between Beta and Alpha.
Gentlemen, Own Your Shit.
Octellius 6y ago
OYS7
Physical
More weight loss stuff. Staying the course with PSMF. This is mean to be an ‘extreme’ diet but to be honest it’s pretty workable and pretty effective and sees to have very low downsides for me(rarely even hungry, no light-headedness that others have reported on). Just finished deadlifts about 2 hours ago and was 1kg off my 1RM PR. So, the initial dip in overall strength is subsiding. I’ve dropped BBB sets, they would not have been building muscle anyway. My 5/3/1 program is not slowing down, so the weights keep going up, and I’m keeping up with it fine.
Monday last week to Monday this morning was 1.5kg loss over a week. Now at 89kg (195lb). I’m still undecided as to when to stop the weight loss. I had previously set some static number based on my last dexa scan, but I’m starting to think that the amount of fat I’m carrying might be lower than expected due to muscle gain since my last DEXA. I probably need a scan so I know what I’m doing. I might have to schedule this for 1-2 weeks from now. If I had been adding even only 1kg\month since the scan it means I’ll go sub 10% in only 5kg from now, which is about 3 weeks away. I need better intel.
Relationship
More up\down stuff. Years ago this drove me nuts, but I stayed the course and amazingly it all came good again. This time -with no direct effort of my own-. A few occasions where I deliberately STFU where I previously would have taken the bait and called out the duplicity and acted indignantly. I’m used to reading ‘be the oak’ but it never really sunk in that this would take effort if only mental on my own part to do that. In the end the storm passed (I can barely remember what caused it and wasn’t even much interested at the time) and of course the sunny days are back again with more of her initiations and IOI’s in general life.
One thing I’m still getting wrong is treating most of her questions or comments as something I need to answer honestly with accurate answers. As an IT consultant this is harder for me, as removing chaos and the fog of misunderstanding is my career. This week I’m going to try and turn a lot of conversations in to fun games rather than just giving dry correct answers. In particular I see that I’ve been missing opportunities like this. “Your arms are small. You spend so much time in the gym, but your arms are still small.”. They aren’t really, but I DEERed and started talking about compound lifts and not working my arms specifically.
One thing I have been playing with that’s been working is physically manipulating her. Pushing, bumping, rolling her over. Using my strength to just move her around, usually for no particular good reason. For fun I’ll just claim her side of the bed, walk up and flip her over, draw a line over the middle of her body and tell her she is still on my 7/8th of the bed and kept pushing her across on to my actual side of the bed. Somehow this had her in stitches.
I’ve been trying overt leadership. “I want you to X”. Her initial reactions are ALWAYS a rejection. “Don’t tell me what to do.”. My only response, which is probably still wrong is merely to tell her that “I told you what *I* want, not what to do.”. I’m not sure she is all that observant of the difference. Interestingly in the days following my request it is always talked about as if it’s on the menu for her now. Perhaps this is the 1000’ rope at play. On that subject the wife keeps telling the family that they all need to get in to shape. None of this push is coming from me. I haven’t missed a workout since Feb. I get the feeling that she is in my wake when is doing various programs.
Mental
I could write something better here, but my biggest breakthrough has happened somewhat over the last few weeks. In the past I felt frantic to ‘make progress’ and would put too much effort in to even the smallest things on the MRP path in particular on the physical side. This was probably some kind of anxious manifestation of my fear over this whole ‘situation’ that I had created which led me here. I had this choking feeling that I needed to do more and go faster, and was ‘so far behind’ in particular in the physical space, which prevented me from really expanding beyond that. The ‘fat loss’ period and anxiety over strength\muscle loss and\or going backwards has dissipated and been replaced with another feeling. That of ‘enjoying the process’. Like a cyclist in the alps, who is there just because he loves the climb isn’t worried if he turns the next bend and sees an 8deg hill. It’s why he’s there, not a painful obstacle to be endured and suffered, a challenge he wants.
I look at my Wendler 5/3/1 app and it has all the weights I’ll be doing over this 12 month cycle. In the beginning the numbers looked impossible yet before the app I had the incessant need to progress faster. How fast? Whatever my current progress was – plus more. Yet, the demands of the Wendler program are easy to maintain. Plateaus have fallen behind me. Then there was the bloated stomach. How can I lose weight AND build muscle, more anxiety. If I diet I'll get weak. I'll sacrifice precious progress time, etc. But this diet has somehow changed everything. I’m still progressing on track with the Wendler 5/3/1 AND also losing weight, AND also pushing bigger weights each month. Nothing has to wait, nothing delayed, progress is as it should be, better really as I have a firm belief now that I could succeed on the program even on 1000 cal a day (as I’m already doing), and if I can do that how great will progress be once I go back on normal cals?
Back taxes are paid off. Credit card is empty. No bills outstanding anywhere. Spare cash stockpiling even with my wife still not billing since lockdown started. Found a place that does TRT in Australia though I’m not exactly sure that I really need it right now. Kids report cards came in covered in A’s. Even the lockdown vege patch is overflowing. It feels like I’ve been hunkered down and the storm has passed.
This is not a post of someone who is happy getting this far and is setting up to cruise back to where I came. It’s the post of someone who feels like I finally learnt to jog and has a stride and a rhythm and is looking at where I can go next and finally realises that I don't have to crawl everywhere.
So, I'm putting together my idea for my first business idea(not counting my consulting business) based on u/johneyapocolypse DoD post. Need to reread his post to get a better idea as to how to make this a success and not end up in a never ending R&D perfection cycle.
BarracudaRP 6y ago
Even the shit tests mean that you're heading in the right direction.
What will you say next time? I recommend "You're right - most of my gains are still going to my dick."
Good shit this week man, keep at it.
Octellius 6y ago
Kind thanks. Vry much appreviated.
What will I say next time? Good suggestion. I need to be faster with this stuff. As with everything "practice make permanent", so I better start practising more of what I want to be normal.
rotkohlblaukraut 6y ago
So are you deliberately trying to NOT get feedback on your OYS posts? Out of the last eight, around six of them have been posted on a Sunday or Monday, whereas the weekly thread starts on Tuesday, virtually guaranteeing you get minimum visibility and feedback. 90% of the action occurs in the first 2-3 days of the cycle.
Octellius 6y ago
I did hold off on starting OYS early on and needed a shove and often skipped weeks or months between posts. The primary reason for that was there were things I needed to fix(mental and physical). They were rudimentary, well described and there was little value for anyone to read more victim pukes and face plants from a butthurt rambo who wanted a pat on the back for taking baby steps in the right direction.
In some ways you are right that I protected my underbelly early on by not wanting the spotlight. Recently though it feels moire like I've manged to get over the first foothill of a mountain, I know what I'm doing in a basic sense and can self calibrate to a degree. I'll also admit that by being \~18 hours offset from servertime I really have never known when OYS starts other than looking at the age of the last post and knowing one is coming up soon. I have known though. I held on to a post once, got busy at work (around the beginning of lockdown) and found it three weeks later as a draft unposted.
Good response. I hadn't considered that I was avoiding the spotlight since around feb when I WAS trying to do that. I should make a conscious effort in that space (and other anti social tendencies :) )
rotkohlblaukraut 6y ago
My God that's a lot of hamstering. Next OYS opens in under 12 hours. If you wanna be there, be there.
Carrera3286 6y ago
OYS 1
Age: 31 Ht: 6'1 Wt: 215 lbs Wife: 31 Married: 6
Mental/Mindstate: I'm a fucking mess. I don't even know what I want or what happiness looks like anymore. I've been going through the motions for years, and I have all the outward markers of success, but I've never felt more lost in my life.
Issues, Marriage or otherwise:
Sex: The reason I came here to begin with. It improved drastically when I first started working on myself 4 years ago, then plateaued. I can get it daily if I push for it, but its never enthusiastic or on demand realistically. The desire just isn't there. She doesn't really even like it when I touch her.
Cloudy_Pirate 6y ago
Congrats on reaching Level 100 Dancing Monkey. That's epic.
It's exhausting though right? You are pretty much the exact guy I pictured when I wrote this post.
Next book you read should be Unchained Man by Caleb Jones. It will help you diagnose the social programming that is fucking you up and then you can decide what to do about it.
In theory, your physique and social life and income (potential) are generating tons of dread. But since you struggle to pass basic shit tests you are technically at Dread Level Zero. No wonder your wife's hamster is going crazy. Since you can't even handle her, how can you possibly slay the dragons of the world?
At some point, Horn's posts about turning dread into desire will help you turn the corner. But you have to be willing to go nuclear first.
Carrera3286 6y ago
Yeah. That post is spot on me. Purchasing Unchained Man now. I need to do more reading on Frame and try and internalize it and contextualize it better. I’m only just now at the point where I’m actually willing to entertain the nuclear option, which is kind of ridiculous given we have no kids and I’m miserable. I also have some suspicion that she may have BPD so I bought a bunch of reading on that as well although at this point I’m more concerned with unfucking myself than trying to diagnose whatever she has going on.
I really appreciate the input.
Cloudy_Pirate 6y ago
It should go without saying, but DO NOT GET HER PREGNANT. Make sure you are in control of the birth control. (Iron rule of Tomassi #5)
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
In all the times I've seen men claim here that their wives may have BPD or another form of crazy, almost always its just because the men are spineless faggots.
You likely fall into that category.
I did too.
Quoting /u/Cloudy_Pirate here:
It probably would, it is part 3 in this series but you should really absorb part 1 first.
If you look deep enough, it's probably all your fault.
Leave if you want, but accept your part.
Cloudy_Pirate 6y ago
The OP reminds me of you of some ways. High performance, high capacity. I still don’t know how you transformed your mentality.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
He reminded me of myself too.
W&S made a point the other day there are always 20-30 guys in OYS on #1-8 here and only 3-5% of them actually make it.
Probably a waste of time replying to them mostly but you do see glaring things and maybe it helps them.
Lot of guys responded to me. I just kept coming back for more beyond OYS #8.
Carrera3286 6y ago
I genuinely appreciate the effort. You’re probably right. It’s hard to isolate a variable like that when my own bullshit is causing such a disruption to begin with.
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
Do you have kids?
Have you talked to JAG to find out how fucked you are in a divorce?
What work have you done internally to examine why your validation is coming mostly from external sources? What part of your childhood led to these validation habits?
Have you done the NMMNG Exercises? Actually done them as described for the week/month etc? (The ones MRP recommends anyway, not the opsec-breaking ones or the sex moratorium)
Carrera3286 6y ago
No kids.
I haven’t yet, I probably should. Honestly idgaf financially at this point. She has her own pretty solid income stream and if she wants to take a bunch of my shit, whatever. Most of my assets are guns and cars and shit to maintain and clean those two things. I should probably be looking at this more in depth though as I’m sure there are more pitfalls than I’m anticipating.
In the last few weeks I’ve been trying to do more of that. I definitely suffered through some heavy abandonment shit as a child, lost my dad at a young age, etc etc. I should probably be doing more to actually trace this thread. I have a habit of just removing memories from my consciousness and I’ve uncovered a surprising amount of repressed shit reading NMMNG again.
I haven’t. I’ve always looked at them and kind of mentally walked through them and called it good. I’m going to start actually doing them now. I appreciate that.
BarracudaRP 6y ago
I can relate. Keep digging, don't just put off things because they're uncomfortable to feel. In my case, I was sabotaging myself because I didn't really like that guy, I was angry at him.
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
I can't remember if it was 5 yrs, 7yrs, or just any time married period, but after a certain time married she gets a fat chunk of your pension when you retire, too. The military is worse than the civilian world for guys who divorce. The advice is always do it sooner than later if you think it might be necessary.
I browsed through your prior comments, the feel I get is that instead of building a maze for your wife with an exit you wanted, you built yourself a maze with no exit, handed your wife the cheese, and then put yourself in the maze. You then repressed everything that might have helped you figure out why you'd put yourself in the maze, and are now confused about why there's no exit, and why your wife doesn't respond no matter which direction you go. And in your desperation to figure out WTF is going on, your version of chewing through a wall to escape is dying. Not a good mindset man.
Get to work on the internal shit. Start by:
Stop throwing parties to make yourself feel good about how much people like you.
Stop doing shit because of how you want other people react.
See how much of your life's activities are left when you stop all that, probably won't be much you're left with- hopefully at least lifting is just for you and not because of the validation you get from others about your body.
Once that fully hits you, you can start trying to listen to that voice inside you that your Nice Guy has been stifling all this time, the voice that tells you what you actually want to do and care about. Then build some new habits and hobbies around that shit instead. (It could even be the same shit - but this time for the right reasons) Monitor your mental models about why you care about each thing carefully, it will be very easy to build covert contracts into your new activities which was the whole point of the Full Stop in the first place, so you could slowly introduce and introspect as you go.
Carrera3286 6y ago
Interesting. I’m probably fucked regardless then but I’ll look into it.
I’d say that’s a pretty accurate metaphor.
I guess the good part about this last bit is I do have a ton of hobbies and interests, if anything I felt like I’ve repressed my ability to pursue them in catering to my wife’s demands. I do get out of the house at least once a week with a group of people to work our dogs, I’d be lying if I said there weren’t some aspect of owning a dog that can fuck shit up that isn’t tied up in my ego, but I do genuinely enjoy the relationship with my dog and the process. My cars are definitely for me, although I’ve definitely bought ones that the wife wanted me to based on the outward appearance of affluence that she’s excessively concerned with. I love shooting and working on my guns but I don’t do it extracurricularly as much as I want to because she hates it when I’m not at home because work obviously keeps me away to a certain degree. I feel guilty about that and cave and just stay at home instead of getting out of the house to do range drills. Lifting helps my mental clarity an absolute ton but the truth is I built my entire home gym solely because the wife didn’t like me being out of the house so much to work out. It happened to work out in my favor with this Corona Virus shit but I didn’t NEED to build a gym at home by any means. I love woodworking and doing home improvement projects but a ton of that has become intertwined with trying to impress or appease the wife at home. A lot of the DIY shit I do is just to prove I don’t need to hire someone else when In reality my time could be better spent elsewhere. I used to do BJJ a ton more but I stopped because she didn’t like me being gone so much and didn’t like that there were females at my gym.
It’s honestly dizzying just thinking about how much of that shit is infected with bullshit motives. I have a lot of work to do.
rotkohlblaukraut 6y ago
Aloha nailed it with the external validation comments. But is it the case that you're throwing the parties to impress other people? Or is it to impress your wife by showing her that you're impressing other people? I.e. does it all come back to your wife?
You talk about cutting your time at work, at the range training, at the gym to appease the wife. A lot of the living in fear of your wife (or fear of losing her approval) reminds me of myself in my first marriage. In retrospect, all that denying myself was really soul-killing, and took a long long time to forgive myself for not taking care of myself. You should quit digging while you're not so far down in the hole.
The NMMNG book is terrific for rooting out the psych stuff related to why you feel the need to please people, especially women. But I can't quite tell from here if (1) you appease your wife b/c you pedestalize her emotions above your and are terrified of dealing with them, or (2) because you lack the WISNIFG skills to manage a conversation in which there's conflict. Maybe both. Your job suggests not #2, but you talk of feeling guilty and afraid of her reaction which might point to #2. In fact, you seem so afraid of your wife's emotions that you call her BPD, so it can be something you don't have to deal with because if it's BPD, then hey, you're powerless to stop it, right?
Carrera3286 6y ago
Yeah, I mean she definitely drives the show on that, I wouldn’t have them if she didn’t get enjoyment out of the social proof of it all. It’s not to say I don’t also enjoy having people over, but the driving force is probably what she gets out of it, and her explicit requests to do it. She definitely gets high off of people admiring the house we live in etc.
It’s funny because so much of it is just below the surface level of consciousness for me. Trying to isolate the why is difficult, because I tell myself there is no why, I’m just living my life, but obviously I wouldn’t be doing these things absent her influence. Ultimately I think I’m terrified of her emotions. I’ve gotten to where her getting upset has such an effect on me that I’ll do damn near anything to avoid it. I’m so codependent and unable to cope when she gets angry and ignores me or starts berating me that I just modify my behavior to not deal with it. Obviously the BPD diagnosis would offer some level of comfort for me, just because I so often feel like I’m absolutely losing my fucking mind because her version of reality can be so far off base, the things she chooses to get upset over and absolutely lose her shit about don’t even remotely make sense to me. Ultimately I’m just lending all of that way too much weight because I’m so afraid to deal with it head on.
rotkohlblaukraut 6y ago
So despite your RP knowledge, you still carry around the beliefs of a bluepill NiceGuy. I get it, book learning is a lot easier than actually internalizing a new mental model. And I can relate to where you are now - I was there too. The good news is you can change yourself - it's 100% possible. But it will require you to face some of your fears. Keep doing what you've always done and you'll keep getting the same results, right?
> I tell myself there is no why, I’m just living my life
In some great metaphysical atheistic sense, sure, there's no why. But in any practical sense, the "why" is that you're just repeating habits, not much more than that. Same way as you probably wash your hair and use the soap in a particular order every time you step into shower, you probably greet her demands with the same emotions, same feeling that you have to react with a defensive and placating strategy each time you step in the front door. And habits are powerful, because (1) they control you without you having to be mindful or conscious of them, they're a super easy mental subconscious shortcut, and (2) they reinforce their power by repetition. Habits are more than just physical like gnawing fingernails or pouring a drink, they're also mental. And the habits and the core beliefs you have about yourself and the world tend to reinforce each other through repetition as well.
NMMG and doing the breaking free excercises are pretty eye opening at peeling back the curtain on the habits and the psych behind them. The more you can see what's going on, the more you'll be able to break the habits when they start to kick in. But it will require, pretty much by definition, going outside your comfort zone, to break those habits, counterproductive as they may be.
Meditation, though slow and time consuming, can be a great way to see the mental chatter for what it it - just mental conditioning coming up in response to specific triggers. It gets to be less compelling to have to act on this chatter the more you can see it, and see it as just a thing your mind does rather than being intrinsically who your core self is.
You seem to have a lot ofself- honesty and awareness, so I've got hope for you.
Carrera3286 6y ago
Excellent points. I’m about halfway through my deep dive re-read of NMMNG and I think your bit about habit is spot on. When I read the concepts I’m like well yeah, duh, but when I objectively look at my behavior I’m still going through the motions that reinforced how I used to think, and still do on a more latent level.
Anomalousfunction 6y ago
OYS19
Age 50 Married 24 years. Together 26 years. Wife 48.
3 male children age 20,20 and 17.
Height 179 cm/ 5ft 10 Weight 75kg Body fat c20%
Reading
Read NNMG, MAP, WISING, MMSLP. The Game by Neil Strauss and The Rational Male (the book) by Rollo Tomasi. The Art of Seduction. Realise I need to refer back to these books and reread to make sure I digest the basic concepts. There is a difference between reading and listening.
Finished rereading The Rationale Male.
Restarting The Rules of the Game.
Lifting
Reworked exercise routine to focus on progression to a pull up. Did 4 sets of 4 negatives on Monday. Really tired afterwards.
Relationship
Sex a couple of times as usual quick fast and OK for me.
Mission
Make money by investing.
Reflections
Bit mentally low this week. Lockdown. Repetition each day. Reflecting on past too much. Lack of excitement.
Feel bodyweight is progressing.
Gardening is progressing well.
Short term goals
Did the review of my exercise routine and goals. Primary goal is working towards a pull up.
Now lockdown easing will restart The Rules of the Game to improve my social skills.
Smuggler-Tuek 6y ago
OYS YEAR 2
WEEK 1
After a year of OYS posts I took a month off. Read through my old posts and wanted to refresh myself. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest through the trees. I learned a lot. Mostly I learned that I am really good at lying to myself. It was evident in every one of my early posts and started to get better as time went on but the problem still persists. Bullshitting helps no one, especially me. That said there was a lot of good I found. The difference between week one and a year later was monumental. I am disgusted by the person I used to be. It's embarrassing to think about. I also was reminded how depressed and anxious I used to be which is basically nonexistent now. The biggest lesson I learned out of all of this is reality doesn't care about how you see the world. Reality is reality. Once you come to terms with the world as it is and operate accordingly life becomes much easier. I am eternally grateful for this place and the lessons I've learned here. It makes all the shit that led me here worthwhile.
Diary over, back to OYS
​
ABSTRACT: Listening more than reading. Screw up at work might have cost me a client. DEERing and not DAREing with the wife. Gaining friends. When I fail to follow through on plans or goals my whole life suffers.
Age: 31
Married, twin 3 year old boys
​
Physical:
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 164lbs
Workout:531 BBB
1RM:
SQUAT: 290lb
BENCH PRESS: 217.5lb
DEADLIFT: 286lb
SHOULDER PRESS: 174lb
Reading:
I've been listening to 48 laws of power again. I've also been listening to Rollo Tomassi's weekly videos on youtube. I've got other books I need to get to but I've found listening to Rollo helpful in cementing redpill concepts.
Career:
Might have lost a client because of an accident. Felt like shit about it. Failure still sucks but I'm trying to remind myself that failure is inevitable. I just need to learn from it.
Relationship:
I'm finding myself DEERing and not DAREing. I'll give an example scenario that happens sometimes. I'll be working on something, lets say in the backyard, and the kids will fight and hurt each other after I tell them repeatedly to stop. I screw up and let myself get frustrated. Wife senses it and says "it sounds like you are getting frustrated" which I respond "that's because I am. But..." and then I try to justify it. I shouldn't justify my emotions I just usually catch myself after. I also shouldn't be getting frustrated over kids being kids. I just need to deal with them appropriately and have more patience towards whatever I'm working on (which is usually what's starting to frustrate me before the kids chime in).
Social:
Going great. I've been gaining more friends and it's been overall beneficial. Less hanging around exclusively with friends who are often crabs in a bucket.
Personal:
Rollo defines power best: the degree to which you control your own life. The more I do (specifically, the more I do just for me) the more grounded and happy I am. Every aspect of my life flows better when I am exerting control over and engaging with my life. Comfort is avoided like the plague. I fall into traps sometimes where I will delay a workout so I can go drink with friends, or I will play video games in the morning instead of going and running errands I've been needing to do. When I make these decisions it affects my entire life. I have to be vigilant in my time management and accomplishing my goals. Drinking with friends and video games are fun in small doses but when I sacrifice what's important to me it always backfires.
Mission:
Maintain control of my life. Continue to grow.
Goals:Continue to improve my self worth and independence.
Financial: Get 10K in an emergency fund by summer 2021.
Fitness: Hit protein goal, macros, and log every day
Career: Develop plan for growth. Implement plan by end of year.
Reading: Read every day, even if it's not part of the required reading, to stay in the habit
Relationship: Stop DEERing.
Social: Balance my social life. Increase social circle.
NowEntertheArena 6y ago
OYS #1
Age 39 Ht 5'9" Wt approx 190lbs(don't own a scale) Body Fat 20%? (picture method)
SS Squat- 3x5 265lbs. DL - 1x5 295lbs. BP- 3x5 205lbs. OHP 3x5 112lbs.
Married/together 19 years. 3 kids 6,4,1.
Reading - The Book of Pook, The Rational Male, SGM(stopped this one, not ready for that yet)
Read - NMMNG, MMSLP, WISNIFG(This one was 95% applicable to me), A River Runs Through It,
I have lived a life of covert contracts and roles since I can remember. I discovered MRP sometime around Feb. I originally thought it was a bunch of dicks, me being full on 100% beta blue pill. I am Neo now, looking at the red pill and the blue pill, knowing which is true and not sure if I have the courage to take the red.
Parenting-
I am generally available to my kids and do my share of helping out with them. But I'm not a leader, more like a buddy. I find myself asking, raising my voice, and what not instead of quietly dealing with the problems that arise. I believe it's most important to model good living and maybe that's why I am here as well. I don't want my kids fucked up by my modeling. And why won't they be unless I change myself? It's a lot to process since I've been so liberal/blue pill/modern/pro feminist/etc up to the point. I'm glad I know I've been living wrong now instead of when they are older.
I would like to change the way I interact in general, being more present for one, and finding my own fun hobbies and activities and involving them in those things instead of just being a "good Dad" by going along and being present for whatever their Mom has planned or wants to do. I am realizing that I am burning out as a parent because I just follow the leader in family activities. Yes, I'm trying to be a good dad by being present and available, but really, because I'm not leading, I'm just resenting alot of the time spent in these activities that I'd rather not actually be a part of. I also have no real hobbies of my own and so I can't even involve them in anything because of that(will write about that below)
Health -
Before I learned about MRP I had decided to get in shape. I have sporadically lifted in the past off and on but not correctly or consistently. I "splurged" in my own opinion, and bought myself a weight rack, barbell and weights for the garage around the beginning of the year as well. It was one of the first times I'd spent money on myself in a long time and I felt guilty but went ahead with it without consulting with my wife. It felt amazing and then bam, covid hits and I'm so pleased that this decision I made for myself worked out. And I start to realize that it's one of the very few times in my life where I ever followed through on what I wanted and didn't ask someone's permission.
I started out with Stronglifts, decided to get a coaching session from a SS coach, and have been on that route now for a couple months. I started with an empty bar and am now getting to the point of being challenged.
I hurt my shoulders once and my back a couple times learning so it's a slow process but I love it.
Calorie wise I've just tried to be mindful of protein intake but not count calories yet. I need to probably eat more since I'm trying to get stronger and not cut at the moment.
I am making it a priority to stretch as well since I'm as flexible like an old rubber band.
Mental -
I began meditating 2 years ago, just 10 minutes a day most days. I have a history of alcoholism, but no longer have a problem with it. Meaning I don't drink but on rare occasions, 1-2x a year. I feel like shit when I drink and know I will. Lifting has given me even more reasons to never drink.
I was depressed as fuck and occasionally suicidal 2-3 years ago and had been for most of my adult life. I didn't realize how much I'd hated myself and life and how I had used alcohol to escape and hide my problems. After beginning meditation, I had some struggles with it, but a few months later I gave it up for 6 months and have rarely gone back to it. If I have even 2-3 drinks in a night, I'll feel myself down emotionally and mentally the next day. So I am normally very strict with myself and don't drink. To sum up, used to be a huge problem, isn't now.
I used to characterize myself as a MyersBriggs INTP, enneagram 4w5, a big 5 personality(high introvert, high in openness, high in neuroticism) Since learning about MRP and reading the books I realize that a few personality traits are set, but many of the "character traits" I had labeled myself with were my shortcomings and inability to be OI , OYS,and be my own point of validation/reference.
Speaking of crutches and excuses, I have been living a life where I rely on them. From my cult like childhood, my fathers Narcissistic Personality Disorder that I just learned about, and my blah blah blah, I've been returning to that over and over. I read HOA tell ImpatientZen to go up a mountain, burn the list or shove it up his ass and that's exactly what I need to do as well. I have massive amounts of remorse over the past, lost time, who I could have been, all I lost, all that was broken inside me, etc. I've fed off that shit for years now. Fuck it. Enter the Arena and move on.
Career/Finances-
I work for a company and get paid middle income wages for an easy job.
My wife takes care of most of the finances but I am taking that back. I have historically been a pansy ass slacker in this department since she is reliable and I'm a bitch. I have begun setting up better systems for debit/credit with a company credit union and building a budget for us. I'm also going to set up all the new auto payments with the new credit union.
We have some retirement put away in a 401k and 3-6 months of emergency fund.
I am overwhelmed with the idea of starting a business like JohnneyApocolypse suggested.
I would like to change my career and become a person who is not reliant on a company/employers decisions and whims. I will need to develop a skill set to do that.
Social/Hobbies -
Don't have friends in the city I live in. No hobbies outside of the house. A lot of social anxiety in general.
I plan to begin BJJ as soon as they open up from Covid. There were some good guys at the gym. I tried a few months ago and hurt my back. I've been lifting and trying to get into shape to not immediately hurt myself again.
I called a friend who I lost touch with this week about some big changes he made in his life. He offered to call weekly to do a check in with me and I accepted his offer.
I've lost track of my self in the last 20 years. I struggle knowing what I want to do or enjoying my leisure activities. I'm trying to remember what I liked as a kid and go back to the well.
Continued in comments in 9 minutes...
NowEntertheArena 6y ago
Marriage-
We grew up knowing each other. Conservative families. We were both each other's first.
Sexually, it's basically a dead bedroom. 1-2x a month at most. Starfish. 5 BJs in my life(not to completion) She will duty sex during the one week a month if she has must.
She was sexually abused as a kid by her father for years and I have always been patient with her. But I realize that's just an excuse now for the most part. I always believed her. But I remembered there were a couple times in her past, early on, where we took a break and she didn't have any trouble making out with another dude. This was when MRP material I had read began really resonating with me. I thought about how I trusted her explicitly and have always valued that and then I remembered twice where she "kissed a guy" early on in our relationship. She came to me apologizing and bawling and what not. Mock me if you want, but I think that's all she did. It was 15+ years ago. Past is the past for now. But, I realize it could happen again. She is tired of my lack of leading, my BP whining, etc.
She has never had much of a sex drive, or so she says. Although when pregnant, she was horny as hell, so maybe she is telling the truth to a degree. But really, I see all these stories and I'm seeing how she prob has one, just not for me.
I've tried some of the initiating and taking what I want and caveman type stuff(not doing it well) and it's worked once or twice(or so I thought) but a couple times now in the last couple months she has stopped sex and just said, I really don't want to do this. Twice recently she has told me she would never have sex if it was up to her. I think this has been the case for a long, long time. It's been all duty sex. My BP self though I needed to be patient and nice and she will come around. I need to help out more around the house. I need to have better methods and techniques. I could give more massages.
Now, with the red pill staring me in the face I know it's just me. It's actually somewhere between crushing and great to realize everyone else is having this amazing sex life but also knowing that I could have it as well.
But I will admit I'm afraid. I'm afraid of embracing all the principles of MRP. I'm afraid everything I have at this point will be burned down and lost(FWIW) I've just always been afraid. And I'm tired of being afraid.
So I am here. I am trying to stop the dancing monkey. I am standing on the edge of taking the step of killing the BP bitch. I'm STFU, I'm aware when I DEER, I'm reading sidebar, I'm lifting heavy.
Goals-
This week-
Finish the two books I'm reading and start another. Read 15 minutes a day on each book.
Lift 3x a week using SS program.
STFU and stop DEERing about ANYTHING.
Finish setting up the finances/budget.
Stretch 15 minutes a day to prepare myself for BJJ
Mission-
Become OI and my own reference point.
Kill off the need for outside validation.(currently at 98% outside validation. Complete dancing monkey, LARPing, etc)
Build my own frame
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Condense your OYS. I should not need to open a new document, copy and paste, and side-by-side answer in a separate window. Fewer words are better than more words.
The biggest shortcoming of the most people in this joint is never getting past the fear to simply put one foot in front of the other - immediately - without consideration - and do something different.
I metaphorically weep for the dudes who are missing so, so much this world has to offer.
p.s. Your mission is based on vague, ambiguous goals. Work on that.
NowEntertheArena 6y ago
Thanks for the reply. Extremely helpful.
I shouldn't explain the bench press. Instead just STFU. Heh. Good genes in pec attachment would be my best guess. When I started lifting I hurt my knees squatting incorrectly and took off a couple weeks. Had some rotator cuff impingement in shoulders OHPing incorrectly and took off a few weeks on them. Hurt my back later squatting. Bench is the only lift I've been able to do consistently.
Initially started with SL(swapped to SS a month or two later) and he recommended starting light so I don't get sore and working on form so I did. I started with empty bar but doesn't mean I couldn't have started higher. Empty bar was to develop form and safety. I started everything lighter than I could have for that reason.
RpRebuild 6y ago
Oys 3
35 yo, 92kg, 6ft, bp 95kg, squat 95kg, row 70kg, ohp 70kg, dl 110kg, bw?
Nmmng, subtle art of not giving a fuck, map, just started mmslp, all of bpp's and coach redpill's stuff on youtube (good to listen to on the way to work)
Start off with pulled a muscle in my back at work early tuesday morning so lifts have stalled, its starting to feel better and will lift really light weight on the weekend. Not sure if I will go for a run with the lads sun morning, usually get in around 10 - 15km. Feel like poor form on squat could be a contributing factor. Weird thing was the squats on monday arvo felt hella easy?
Stayed at work and had a real shit day yesterday but powered through it, took the kids for a walk after around a local lake and it was absolutely amazing. Corona has definately given me a better appreciation for just doing shit outside the house. Overall positve outlook has improved. Did lose my temper at work, which wasnt good but am kinda ok with it as I feel like overall came out the other side better than i was. All the lads at work are giving me shit for it though, saying that there scared etc, just generally clowning around. Usually im a real mellow dude so took alot of people by suprise. (When i say lost my temper i mean i swore like a trooper nothing more than that, but is pretty out of character for me)
Been leading pretty good, reorganising finances, bank loan and other things that I should of been looking into and tweaking.
Relapsed on the porn which is shit, can really feel my motivation leaving me, feel like ive lost a bit of killer instinct or something? Definately like it better when i dont do porn, can feel a massive difference.
Need to to more things with the kids and definately need to start reading the sidebar books more. Have started reading nmmng again as well as going over the bpp stuff just to keep the ideas fresh in my head. Have been doing the breaking free activities with my brother, I know im not supposed to talk about fight club but need someone to talk to and hes pretty cool with it all (been through a pretty messy breakup) he aint red pill and doesnt agree with everything, but hes a good listener.
Life with the wife is indifferent as per usual, have started to do more things with her like watch tv for half an hour, or do bbqs outside with just us and the kids, just more things as a family instead of everyone on there devices (me included). Have set a limit on my own use, will see of I can stick to it. Have to try and do more things just with the missus even if just around the house. We really are housemates that happen to have kids together.
Another goal will be to get out more just myself now that restrictions have lifted and do more stuff with guys/find some hobbies other than the car.
Have to start giving more thought to these oys as well, rather than just thinking of things as i go along, introspection is high on my list as well as meditating. That pon book sounds alright, might give that a crack.
Have not initiated with the wife at all again this week, partly because shark week but mainly because there is no attraction (because relapse on porn?)
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
Yep. This OYS reads like a letter to Grandma.
Where's your passion? Where's your energy? What are your long term goals in the career? Are you making enough money? If not, what are you doing to fix that? Are you getting enough sex? If not, what are you doing to fix that. Are you a good model of masculinity for your kids? If not, what are you doing to fix that.
RpRebuild 6y ago
Thanks for the ass kick, gave it alot of thought this week and basically made this whole oys about these three topics. Theres alot more thought processes going on below the surface (maybe?!) and I feel im doing more than just going through the motions of what I THINK i should be doing and more of what I WANT to be doing. Long term? No idea, but atleast im actually planning on doing something rather than let life happen
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
You are welcome. Glad I was able to help. I read your OYS 4 and was pleased to see more passion. Don't forget to post what books from the sidebar you have read on each OYS so that we know what material you have consumed. I have an OYS template saved in a word doc I use when starting each post. You need to be reading through the sidebar books, not just listening to youtube vids. Those books will help with establishing new behaviors and finding out what your long term goals are. Largely though, the OYS is supposed to be about what you did, and what you should have done.
RpRebuild 6y ago
Yeah thats a good idea with the template as I always forget to put something in the start. I post via phone because the desktop is broken and I dont want to fix it because I used to play to much computer games. So far read nmmng, sex god method, map. Trying to find wisnifg on audible as ive heard its a bit of a slog. Have tried rational male but it just goes over my head. Downloaded the redpill sidebar and books eg 48 laws of power and art of seduction etc. Am in the process of rereading nmmng and map. Next on the list will be mmslp. Want it on audible though but might just get both
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
OYS #8- 6/9/2020
STATS Age: 31 Wife: 29 Married: 2 years, Living together for 4 years.
Kids: 2 month old son
Height: 70.5”
Weight: 179 (down 2)
Squat: 215x5 (up 10)
Deadlift: 265x5
Bench: 165x5 (up 5)
OHP: 95x5
READINGS
Finished King, Warrior, Magician, Lover and NMMNG
Currently reading WISNIFG
HEALTH
I took 2 rest days this week. On those rest days I dropped my calorie intake to >2000. Trying to focus on becoming more lean and dropping those ~10lbs.
FINANCES/CAREER
The new project I have been assigned to is being developed by an amateur policy researcher that does not have any experience as a business developer. This person has a very loose understanding of the technical aspects involved with these projects. Communication of technical details is relayed from me, through him to the customer and a lot gets lost along the way. My manager is aware of this problem, but nothing can be done at this point due to personnel restraints. It has been a frustrating week of tail chasing and redesigning, but I am determined to take control of this project and drive it to success, under budget and ahead of schedule. The old me would be procrastinating, complaining and avoiding the unpleasantness and then scramble to complete work at the last minute. My mindset now is to flip the tables and put the pressure on my coworkers, contractors, and customers to keep up with my productivity.
I already have a few indicators of my increased productivity. My sent e-mails have doubled. My logged phone calls have almost doubled as well. My screen time report on my cell phone dropped 54% this week (embarrassingly, I was averaging almost 4 hours a day.) I also managed to study for my test 1 day this week.
RELATIONSHIP/MENTAL
Wednesday brought about a situation that required me to set a hard boundary, which turned into a long dispute. My wife has a brother that is a typical low ambition stoner. While they were growing up he would constantly mooch money. Her family always indulged (aka enable). His wife is a teacher. Her brother recently got a full time job he loves at a weed store.
We were chatting in the evening and I asked her what her brother and SIL would do with their 2 year old daughter when SIL has to go back to back to school. She says, “well I was thinking that I might offer to watch her for them, since I’m going to be staying at home with our son anyway.” I flat out tell her no, that’s not a good idea because your brother and SIL will just take advantage, they can figure it out on their own. I thought that would be it.
Later that evening we are on a zoom call with her family and I ask SIL if they found daycare for their child. She says no and my wife pipes up saying she doesn’t mind helping out. I’m dumbfounded sitting there thinking “bitch wtf are you doing? I just said no.” SIL starts saying things like, “oh I couldn’t ask you to do that, that’s so much work and you have a baby to watch.” But my wife is like “oh it’s ok I really don’t mind, what’s one more kiddo?”
So I get off camera and make eye contact with my wife and shake my head, mouthing “no.” and she just ignores me. So I go into the bedroom and start reading a book. After the call ends she comes into the bedroom. I tell her straight up “You are not going to offer yourself up to your brother and SIL as a form of free child care. It’s ok to watch her a day here and there if they are truly desperate, but that’s not going to turn into a routine activity for you. My home is not going to turn into a daycare.”
As I spoke I could see the rage building up behind her eyes. She starts off saying “Shit like this is exactly why I didn’t want to be a SAHM. I knew you were going to try and control everything I do. You think you have the right to just make decisions without any of my input, not even considering what I want. I don’t like that.” Me: “You don’t have to like it.”
She starts making every argument she can think of, accusing me of being selfish controlling and coldhearted. I tried to speak as little as possible but several times she asked me to explain why. Summary of my logic was “your brother and SIL will just take advantage of you. You’re just enabling his irresponsibility like you’ve done to him your whole life. It’s going to be disruptive to my life. I’m not going to put your brother’s priorities of working at a weed shop ahead of my own. I’m not going to let you do that either. All the time and attention you will be giving to niece is time and attention you will be taking away from my son.”
She claims that families help each other out and I point out to her all the ways we have helped her brother and how he has failed to reciprocate. She claims that she wants to do it because she would want somebody to do that for her. I point out that only a complete asshole would want somebody to give them free childcare 40 hours a week. The argument finally ended when she asked “would it make a difference if I went over to their house to watch her?”
Me: “at that point there really wouldn’t be much reason for us to married.”
Her: “wow that’s a bold statement.”
Me: “why? I’d be coming home to an empty house either way.”
Her: “wow… fuck that. I’m sick of hanging out with you.” And she gets up and sleeps in the guest room.
The next day was like a normal day. Came home to a clean house, and hot food on the stove, wife in a good mood. I noticed she was very attentive to my mood and behavior. Friday we fucked full on PIV for the first time since my son was born. I needed to go slow because of her recovery process but I still had a good time.
Neither of us has mentioned the argument. Do I need to bring it up and make sure she understands the boundary? She mentioned to me she told SIL about another sitter. I assume she made it clear to SIL that her time is not available.
I know I DEERd during the interaction, but what are you supposed to do when demanded for an explanation? I haven’t learned enough about AM, fogging and negative inquiry yet to apply those.
dust2dust45 6y ago
Blarg gave you a crystal ball and you smashed it like a angry chimp. Your immaturity has consequences and your only way out of this volitle (1st infant and family drama) is to lead, not add fuel.
When saying “no,” frame as saying yes to something more important. SAHM have tons of free time, infants sleep more than awake, and just sit/lay all day. Lead her to something more important.
You are correct in not wanting to enable BIL behavior, but you can’t do it out of spite, especially toward family dumbass.
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
You think you were setting a boundary out of principle. But it is clear to me, and your wife, it was set out of fear and spite.
Tell me, if your wife DID babysit, and it didn't interfere with your home or life, would you care? My wife fosters dogs. They smell. They pee. They poo. They need food and exercise. My preference would be to not foster dogs. But it makes her happy, gives her purpose, and they're cute every now and then.
But i told her..."These are your dogs. I will help out when I feel like it, but they are not my responsibility. I don't want them interfering with my life. So we can do this if those conditions are met" And so far, they have been.
Tell me more, if she DID babysit, do you think it would be a great opportunity to lead her in the difference between doing what she wants (babysitting while they work) and being taken advantage of?
No question, your BIL will absolutely try and pawn the baby off for reasons other than his work. And the very second she comes to you for your leadership on how to not get taken advantage of here, that's when you could set a boundary and lead.
But you're putting out fires that haven't even happened yet. EVEN THOUGH we (you and i) both know they are going to happen (my BIL is the same as yours). But they havent yet. And women build the foundation of their personality on the plausible deniability card. So to her, it hasnt happened yet. And theres a nonzero chance it wont. So not only are you wrong in her eyes, you broadcasts fear and insecurity to her loudly.
THEN (Jesus Christ)....THEN you fucking set yourself up to fail when you asked what BIL and wife were going to do with the kid.
You literally, in asking that question, held your wife's feet over the coals. If she stays silent, she's an ass to them. If she offers her services, she's an ass to you. Why did you bring that up? If you said nothing, it's entirely possible your BIL and his wife would have solved the problem on their own. But you brought the issue to a head right there, between your family and his. Completely idiotic.
The entire argument after I hardly read, because it wouldn't have happened had you not done what you did. Give you wife room to live and grow, but set boundaries when that intersects with YOUR life. And think next time before you open your mouth.
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
Hypothetically, no, I would not care. I don't see how this is a relevant point though because I know that it would be disruptive to my life.
I think this is something she likes the idea of doing but will actually hate in practice. She feels there is a void in her life now that she isn't working a full time job. She feels pressure to find a productive endeavor because many of her peers have side businesses they can do from home while parenting. So she is looking for opportunities to latch onto so that being a SAHM isn't the only thing that defines her.
Last summer we got a puppy after I caved into her pleadings. That dog was a terror. The dog chewed on our shoes, took 6 months to house train, chewed up an ottoman and had unlimited energy (it would bark at us while we sat on the couch watching TV). She claimed to love it despite becoming visibly frustrated with the dog almost daily. In February the dog got hit bar a car in front of our house. I had to endure that beast for 8 months because I caved to her irrational desires. I see the babysitting situation similar to the dog situation and I don't want to repeat the same mistakes.
My intent was to see if what options they were looking into. I purposely asked in front of my wife because maybe they already had something lined up so that her services would not be needed.
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
Id ask the obvious question of how this would be disruptive in your life. And you'd give me the obvious answer. So let's skip right to: If you knew how this would be disruptive to your life, then it would make sense to set a boundary that you will allow her to do what she wants if she can do it without it interrupting your life. If she then respected that boundary, hey no problem. If she didnt, then you punish.
This is all different because it's not saying "You can't do what you want because I don't believe in and / or fear your ability to X"...its saying "You CAN do what you want, so long as your actions aren't negatively impacting me." It shifts the responsibility of her future behavior onto her. And doesn't attempt to control her because YOU DON'T CONTROL HER ACTIONS.
You're modeling this situation on the dog situation. Did you set boundaries for the dog situation? Did you enforce them? And is your solution to any future attempt at responsibility on your wife's part going to be shot down by the fear it may turn into the dog situation again?
Again you don't control her. This is like saying "You can't go out to the bar with your friends because I don't trust you." Let her go. If she misbehaves, address that. If she cheats on you, leave her. Unless you feel like micromanaging a grown adult for the rest of her life and having her hate you for it, let her be a first mate instead of the captain's servant.
Did you skip right over me breaking this down? You put the spotlight on her. You forced her to act. Had your BIL made alternate arrangements, he wouldn't have needed her help anyway. So there was no point in asking. It was literally a Lose - Doesn't matter scenario and you chose lose, because the anxiety of not being in control made you chase that win over your wife.
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
OK, I've been mulling this over and here are my conclusions:
I fucked up by initiating the topic. I was trigger happy to set boundaries after learning about them in NMMNG. I could have been way more tactful and gently led her away from the idea of babysitting, likely without any conflict. My behavior was motivated by a fear that my home would turn into a chaotic daycare.
So, thanks again for walking me through this. I do not plan on apologizing to wife, or telling her she can babysit if she wants. I do not plan on bringing up that topic ever again. What I will do is create a list of what my boundaries actually are and familiarize myself with them.
rotkohlblaukraut 6y ago
> I was thinking about boundaries all wrong as if my wife was inside my boundary
Have you read straegos' classic post on boundaries?
It looks like you understand the basic mistake, but I'm not as sure you get why, which is what Blarg was trying to beat through your thick skull. Adopting anything other than your own self "inside your boundary" means you're adopting something that fundamentally you cannot control. And this will inevitably lead to frustration and suffering when your attempts to control fail, because they will. Tying your success or failure or happiness to someone else's response to your attempts to control will just lead you back into the rabbit hole of counterproductive bitching.
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
I read that post and it was enlightening. Thanks for sharing.
mcnack 6y ago
OYS#1
I have been on MRP since January, but consider February 15th 2020 the day I fully committed. The day after Valentines Day, what a faggot. I am a snowflake with a story but will leave the background out today. It might be worth our time as a 1-Year FR; it’ll read better with success and I can post while I buy her skittles next year.
I built my MAP February 18th. Lift, Read, STFU - have not skipped a day since. Thinking I was beyond the prescription compromised my gains, which is why Vday was a hard reset. My ego is why I am OYS today.
I have taken a lot of value from the internet and have never been compelled to chime in. I don’t use social media, only lurk forums, and this is my first comment in a 2.5 year old reddit account. Why I am choosing to engage with you losers today:
1-u/DirtyNuke kicked me in the ass this morning. Read his post. I journal everyday, have my MAP dialed-in and update weekly. I am more critical of myself than any of you could be. He called me out on not following the recipe again – LIFT SIDEBAR STFU OYS RINSE REPEAT – this subreddit has changed my perspective on life and thinking I am above OYS is a mistake. I have been ignoring a key ingredient.
2-VALIDATION and EGO are at the crux of how I ended up here. I’ve invested a lot of effort into changing my models and adjusting my frame. I’ve had a lot of wins this year. I can already feel the craving for a ‘pat on the back’ from you internet strangers as I write this, and the DEERING to your potential responses is happening in my head. Fuck that. I need this to test my frame, find the shit I am not owning and use OYS as the “shortcut” u/DirtyNuke mentioned. Peek behind the curtain, take me down a peg and make me want to call my mom. Also, some shit happened this week I can use some feedback on.
3-For some reason I feel a need to give back, and need to earn cred in OYS before I do. Maybe I’ll just fuck off again and find something better to do.
STATS: 35, 5’8’’, 163lbs 15%BF (photo); Wife 34, married 8, together 16. Daughter 4.
LATEST LIFTS: (5x5) DL 250, SQ 190, BP 156, ROW 126, OHP 111
READ: NMMNGx2, MMSLPx2, WISNIFGx2, MAPx2, TRM, Poon, Pook, MRP top posts a minimum of 30 min/day.
READING: TRP Sidebar (slog), SGM (\~50%).
FITNESS:
I started StrongLifts Jan-14 with the bar, 3-4x week. I’ve gained >10lbs since I started tracking my 7-day average weight April-1, with no gain in BF%. I am still gaining on SL, but have had to deload DL and ROW due to injury. SQ due to bad form, now lift Ass-to-Grass (mobility>weight). Fractional plates purchased in May help pushed new PRs on BP and OP this week.
I have felt sore this week, in the joints, especially in the knees/legs. I introduced 2 HIIT sessions/week at the end of May (Tabata sprints on Spin Bike) and fucking hate it. I get up at 5AM, average less than 6 hours sleep. I walk 2+ miles/day. I have ignored my commitment to add yoga/mobility work. Reducing calories (IF window) to remove a little BF before shirt is off all summer. I am seeing results but it is unsustainable.
I have a vacation at the start of July; I will stick to the program and tough it out until then and come up with a new plan for next quarter after 7 days off.
FUN:
Keeping this front and center has been an important realization for me; I am responsible for bringing the fun to myself and my family and need to make it a priority.
The national parks opened last week so I took the girls to our favorite spot for the day. We had a great time. Traveling is different with some new philosophies around having “both kids”. Removing the burdens that prevent my wife from being “the oldest teenager in the house” is paying off (e.g, packing, planning etc…). Treating her like one has been received well. When I say “Girls, stop bickering or I will turn this car around”, the pleased look on her face surprised me.
FRAME:
I’ve had a breakthrough/epiphany in the last month that has helped me kill shit tests and made my life so much more fun. My wife is highly competent and better than most of the train wrecks I read about on here, and while the Captain/FO model should work really well, I have seen a huge response from the ‘Oldest Teenager in the House’ model. Having a 4 yo daughter has prepared me for this. Keeping that frame of view on my wife keeps my AM, A&A and cocky/funny on point. It reigns in my butthurt about doing unappreciated shit, unrealized expectations of her, and all the past stuff that creeps back in occasionally. This approach fixes my head, improves my game and general happiness. Her response has been staggering; treating her like a teenager has resulted in her behaving like a teenager. She is bringing the fun and enthusiasm everyday, and I open up the space she needs to do that. I need to keep this at top of mind until it is automatic.
I had a few lapses in frame this week, by myself, and related to having another kid. In short: we’ve made the decision to avoid-avoiding pregnancy until a vasectomy targeted for October. There is a lot to unpack here, but I committed to the deadlines after I made a decision not to have another kid on April 1st. I genuinely was not firm on that decision and was honest about it, but committed to making a decision by then. I made the decision and told her if she wanted to revisit before October I am open to another conversation.
She did. She expressed her interest in ‘avoiding-avoiding’ pregnancy "to see what happens" or whatever the fuck in the middle of May and I agreed. I have been getting increasingly positive sexual response from my wife for months, with a huge escalation since the shark week following that conversation. I am confident some of this increase is due to genuine desire, but the recent increase is no doubt due to her desire for pregnancy. But fuck it, she is over ovulation so I am going to keep going hard and see what her response is – if she starts declining I’ll have some feedback to work with.
The frame drop was after the first time I came inside her during her ovulation. The next morning I was distracted enough to move my vasectomy consult ahead. I couldn’t shake how another kid moves me further from my goals. Objectively, if another kid brings me half the joy my current one does it is a solid decision, even if I was leaning towards not having one I would still be happy with a new addition. Freedom is my priority, and the loss of freedom (time, financial, additional obligation) that comes with another kid might be what I am stuck on. Or, maybe I am stuck on whether she is ‘winning frame’ in this decision, which is a bullshit thing to be stuck on.
What I think is at the core, is that having our first kid is one of the turning points I have uncovered when I review our past through a MRP lens. While I have some new skills that can avoid that happening again, I can’t help but look back on that point in our relationship with some resentment.
Ovulation is over so it is what it is for now. If shark week comes again or not, I will have my answer. If I feel relieved one way or another that will be more feedback I can use to plan from there.
I had ED for the first time in 10+ years the night of our trip to the park. I am trying not to read into it too much, we had fucked twice the day before and I jerked off at the start of the day. I was tired and may have some mental stuff going on re: kid. I woke up the next morning without morning wood which is very unusual. We fucked the next night without issue, but I need to keep this on my radar.
The morning after my ED, she gave me the gears and teased me several times. I handled it like she was making fun of my haircut or any other non-issue, A&A, tell her ‘she’d just have to work harder’ and reminded her that she’d pay for those comments later. She did later that night. I am proud of myself for taking this shitty test as well as I did; it could have been an easy thing to loose frame about.
That's the highlights from the last week. I'll be back.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
1-u/DirtyNuke kicked me in the ass this morning.
That's the highlights from the last week. I'll be back.
I'm counting on it!
RaymondCortazar 6y ago
OYS #26
Sidebar: NMMNG, MMSLP, Pook, TWOTSM. Trillion Dollar Coach.
Stats: Career Beta, classic skinnyfat. 40, wife 40. Married 14 years. 4 kids (1 boy, 3 girls). 5'9. 166 (+/- 0) lbs. 18% BF (Navy Method).
GSLP (5RM listed).
Ancillary shit:
Career:
One of the positions that I've been working on since February finally materialized, and they made the offer - it includes a tidy pay raise and a share of the profits.
Handed in my resignation yesterday. My boss said she would try one last pitch to keep me on. I explained that she was wasting her time and mine. She said she felt absolutely necessary that I understand "her vision and how Raymond fits in it". She offered me the CEO position, when I stick around to 2025 and when we've quintupled our revenues. I politely refused.
Went and got drinks with the new boss last night, and spent a 4 hour session discussing business and hiring strategy. I'll need to assemble a team of about 25 people in the next 6 weeks, and I'll be throwing myself into that pursuit. I am so fucking energized right now - I know the value that I uniquely bring to this pursuit, and I know exactly how I will succeed.
On track to: New job by June 30, 2020.Starting new job on June 22.Extracurriculars: One side business (a rental property) and 2 non-profit boards.
Finance: All pretty good so far.
Health:
The broken toe and the hand are slooooowly healing.
Family/Home-Life:
Not much to add here.
Game and Sex
/u/man_in_the_world introduced me to Adult Attachment Theory last OYS, this led to me purchasing and reading two books on the subject and countless blog/forum posts. My wife is a textbook 'dismissive avoidant', and my reaction to her behaviors led me from being a 'secure' to an 'anxious-preoccupied'. I suspect this coupling is what drives the majority of dancing monkey attraction plans. And yes, I'm a textbook dancing monkey.
I'm working on better understanding the theory, but basically disengaged all attempts at pursuing her - giving her a fuckton of space, and surprise surprise, her overall attitude toward me showed some signs of improvement. Sunday, I walked up to her, wanted to test the theory, and said: "The kids are in bed, let's have sex" and she said: "oh, okay, let me finish this chapter and I'll meet you in the bedroom". No, it's not the exciting, romantic, spontaneous, passionate sex that I want. It's closer to "scheduled sex". But, it's a fuckton better than the entire date-night-covert-contract shit I was pulling before.
I get it, none of this is Chad shit, but I've got to fix my mental models and unlearn more bad behaviors first. I'm in the middle of a research project at the moment, basically retroactively dissecting the history of my relationship, thinking through conflicts all the way back to dating and the early days of my marriage, trying to sort things into "was this d-a behavior that I failed to recognize?" "was my response pursuer-avoidant?" "was that a shit test?" "how should I have handled that?". I've probably got a bigger post coming , because I think I finally understand my patterns and just how they made things worse.
Oh, and /u/AlohaMaui808 was right, I have got to get out of the house more.
Mission
Be an awesome single dad, even if I'm technically married. Have a great relationship with my kids. Have a great career in which I can share my gifts to the world. Keep getting stronger. Be able to accomplish anything I want in my household. Build out my empire.
SteelSharpensSteel 6y ago
Minor update in flair given the new job.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Is she a dismissive avoidant or, perhaps, are you just a needy anxious preoccupied faggot?
I read into attachment theories before and bought in, but the more time that goes on the more I disagree with MitW as using it as a frame for a man's shitty behavior. Tool? Sure to help understand and recalibrate your faggot actions to see results. Frame to calibrate to? Nah.
man_in_the_world 6y ago
I suggest AAT to guys like u/RaymondCortazar and u/FoxShitNasty83 when they seem to be misapplying the MRP toolkit to chase even harder after their withdrawing wives...that is, to guys who fail to get the basic ideas of Dread Levels 3 ("get busy") and 4 ("withdraw after rejection"), in the hope that the different wording or framing might give them that "ah-ha" moment of understanding.
I'd be curious to hear from them as to whether this has actually worked as intended.
FoxShitNasty83 6y ago
Yes and no. Has breaking the codependency / needy behaviour meant I get more sex... No. But it has helped my self esteem to no end. I'm no longer worried about the relationship. I'm no longer anxious that it might end. I can focus on my mission the stay plan and go plan thing is starting to make sense. I now don't need her. And it's liberating.
What helped me get here was finding a mission and a strong vision for what my life would be like without my wife in it. What also helped me was realising that I was addicted to fixing it and trying to pull and cling onto something unhealthy. I went to the extend of using a habbit app on my phone call the habbit "don't be a needy comforting faggot" and check it off day by day when I achieved this. Gay as fuck but I was addicted to giving comfort as a way to reduce my own anxiety. This was so deep rooted through my own childhood fears it took me two years to break.
Self esteem was a core problem of "not being good enough" in order to beat myself to become better and completely miss the positives of everything that I have done. Changing that story. I'm working naritives around my vision as and when i feel the need but I'm not 100% that this woman is helping me. Great mother, terrible girlfriend. This needs leadership because she has absolutely no clue where she is failing.
man_in_the_world 6y ago
Thank you for sharing your experience. It's interesting that the alternate life vision has helped. Along with your mission, perhaps it provides a form of abundance, in knowing you have multiple options beyond your wife and marriage for a fulfilling life.
Were there any breakthrough readings or moments for you, or has progress always come as a slower accumulation over time?
FoxShitNasty83 6y ago
The moment came when you asked me to describe or set a vision for my relationship with my wife and i could not do it. I did not know, because was so emotionally attached to her and what I thought she wanted. It's only when you said forget your wife and to set the vision for the woman I want. this gave me a blank canvas to work with then the vision for a woman and my life came clearly. And my codependency started to fall away due to the shifting mindset. I'm finally cheering for myself and not giving any fucks for those who aren't on my side. Relaxing is easier, life is easier less pressure on myself to fix it all. Thank you.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
At what point do you go overt?
FoxShitNasty83 6y ago
I have been encouraged here to talk. To open my mouth and to say something. I have no need for anger, I have no need to start demanding but I will calmly set expectations that things must change. My preference is not to break apart my nuclear family but I'm willing to now. This will suck but if I don't do something I'm just going to sit on this fence. I don't want that.
If she's not interested then fine, I can say I did everything I could do. I leave but stronger thanks to the work I have done here. It will never end.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
I don't think this should be something you're debating internally if you are.
I think, at least for me, I just "knew" and believed it to my core. Then executed, chips fall where they may.
Anything less and I would be incongruent.
FoxShitNasty83 6y ago
Thanks for that insight and appreciate where your coming from. I have more work to do with my self esteem this has come on leaps and bounds. But still essential work
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
I don't think MitW is using it as a frame to move into. I think he was warning against it. However, this right here is stuff I'm looking into now, and what I said I was looking into when I commented to you last.
/u/RaymondCortazar mentions something I have seen in my wife and PFP states: Women who are LD respond when time and attention are removed to extremes, and the time and attention that is spent is spent in high energy/polarity.
I suspect this has a lot to do with the consequences of the combination of high self esteem and low drive. But I'm not willing to conclude much at this point.
RaymondCortazar 6y ago
My read of MitW's view is that AAT is descriptive, and MRP is prescriptive. AAT explains why some relationships are dogshit, MRP provides the tools to fix the man (which may or may not fix the relationship).
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Or, in an alternate universe - AAT explains how you're a faggot.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Fair. May have missed that. I just see it mentioned often by him.
My wife used to go batshit when I worked from a coffee shop for 2 hours. Everytime.
She still gets anxious.
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
I think yours is high energy (drive) and this means a lower tolerance (higher susceptibility) for triggering that anxiety. Mine wouldn't give a shit if I was at a coffee shop for 2 hours. Advantages to high energy is of course high malleability. Disadvantages are you arent the only one influencing her, and dealing with her going batshit.
I am working on removing the chemical stabilizers from my wife's life. She is on both hormonal birth control and SSRIs. I have to laugh at the possibility that I'm actively inviting a lunatic into my future. It's going to be interesting.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Glad you see this too.
In the right hands of leadership, a high anxiety woman is absolutely wonderful. I'm sure you've gleaned by now that I have redirected this into more - shall we say - fruitful endeavors that add great value to my life.
Always eager to please.
Ive had a post in draft a while on women like this. I love them.
BostonBrakeJob 6y ago
I've wondered for awhile now, are you "red pilling" her semi-overtly? Or is the carrot always on the stick?
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Love that you asked this question. Thanks.
Yes, I am red-pilling her in a way. But doing so with both methods.
At this point, she hates feminists and sees the destruction other couples are going through regularly. She despises wimpy men and hates non-feminine women. She has taken her own red-pill and seen how much happier she is now than the life she used to live. She loves talking about woman drama (surprise!) and how they need to live "like we do" if they want to be truly happy. I take that opportunity as well to speqk my opinion of how the man should do things differently to succeed - this is semi-overt.
On the semi-overt side: I am fairly overt about how she can add value to my life after she does something, and this was likely done by her through my covert leadership and carrot-on-a-stick. A little bit of praise and she is a very happy woman. I make a decision if she "gets it" as to why this adds value. If I think she needs to know why, because sometimes she does get confused, then I am semi-overt with her. Usually, I don't have to, the praise and sex are enough. She's an extremely feminine woman that subscribes to RP praxeology (now). This too was done through semi-overt leadership in her reading a lot of D/s stuff, Fascinating Womanhood, Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, First kill all the marriage counselors... etc. And yes, we communicate.
She sought out to embrace the woman she is because it brings such immense joy to her life by way of making a high-value man's life so great.
But she also tells me without shit testing what she thinks she needs (which isn't always right, btw) to feel safe, desired, and valued if necessary. This is rare, because I do care about her and try to read through her at all times and make a decision on what she needs - then execute. I never DEER on this, but I do listen to her. Then I take her womanese and use that to further RP her through actions.
On the carrot-on-the-stick side: My levels of DNGAF are pretty damn high. She knows she is replaceable. Even when she's vocalized this to me - I've said, "Yes, you are, but you are very special to me and have continually provided my life great joy." I don't argue that she is replaceable. This likely causes her enough anxious dread to know that as long as I'm on top of my game she must be too. I constantly game and tease her. I reward her with great sex often because she really does need and deserve it. Or flowers because I feel like it. Or just general nice things because I know she is trying very hard.
So what I'm getting at is this: It all comes down to how you use praise. I can praise the RP stuff, I can praise the feminine stuff, I can praise the communication, I can praise her great blow-job skills, I can do it all. But the moment that praise is removed, she knows. And feelz it. And that's a mix of both overt communication and the next dopamine hit of getting the carrot.
BostonBrakeJob 6y ago
It seems like she responds well. I've seen you mention her high anxiety several times throughout the years and wondered if she had learned to navigate some of that on her own, or if she required constant guideance.
Mine is more on the constant guidance side of things. And admittedly, I decided long ago that wasn't for me.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
She has learned to navigate it on her own much better, and I have taught her to redirect that anxiety using the vehicle of sexual surrender and desire thereof.
There are some very deep mental connections there for her.
I could say "she gets anxious and drops to her knees and asks to blow me" or "if there has been a long difficult day with anxiety she can't wait to get to bed to relax by putting my cock in her mouth" but that wouldn't entirely describe what happens.
It is not dread.
MRP5248 6y ago
Age - 34. Weight - 150. Height - 5'10" Lifts 5RM - Squat 200, Deadlift 250, Row 135, Bench Press 150. Reading - NMMNG, MMSLP, WISNIFG, Book of Pook, WotSM, MAP. Relationship - Married 9 years, 5 year old son, 2 year old son.
Mission - To be the leader of myself and my family. To be a role model to my sons. To be fit and strong. To value experiences over things. To be really damn good at the work I do.
Physical - Doing PHUL 4 days per week. Lifts are still going up. I am weak and did not track calories this week. I need to because without tracking, I don't know if I'm on target.
Got solid advice last week on adding milk, canned tuna, and other protein sources to get to 200g protein. I meal prepped my lunch this week with chicken, rice, and vegetables to increase protein.
Goal - Track calories every day until next OYS.
Career - I had that difficult conversation about being behind schedule on a project. I was prepared, calm, and it went well. I need to keep facing my fear and telling myself "I can handle this."
The writing is on the wall that the co-founders are trying to sell the company I work for. I need to prepare my resume, portfolio, network, etc. Networking is my weak point hear. I rarely stay in touch with people, build relationships, etc. I also need to position myself to be essential for after a buyout.
My past OYS talked about my lack of working on my career. I've since worked on my career 20+ hours and made a solid project for my portfolio. The key was making something I was intrinsically interested in.
Goal - Reconnect with 3 people in my network.
Financial - Finances are good.
Social - My wife and I hung out with our neighbor, his wife, and kid. I felt the need to create conversation after a while. I was focused on making sure my neighbor and his wife were having a good time. Then, I realized that I was quite content just enjoying my ice cream and a quiet moment. Perhaps not MRP related, but I told myself that I didn't need to impress anyone or try and be someone else. So, I stopped focusing my thoughts on their happiness.
Marriage / Sex - Shark week, so no sex. I just focused on myself, but still flirted with my wife when I felt like it. Every time I flirted, I got the "I'm still on my period." So, I wonder if I created a neediness / covert contract that every time I flirt it's for sex. After 10 years, it will take more than a few months to break this. Also, it's on me to flirt, joke, etc. without always leading to sex.
I'm going to start doing a NMMNG Breaking Free Activity each OYS. Saw another user do this.
NMMNG Breaking Free #1
Name 3 safe people - This community is really the only safe area I have to post about this stuff. I have close friends, but none are MRP. My father is a good man, but doesn't give much helpful advice.
UsefulWalk4 6y ago
I got one of those too! I started giving her lines like: Oh good to know, I've got a little jock itch going since we are oversharing right now. Killed the comments, but the natural negative reaction remains. So I'm working on flirting with no intention of it leading to sex, she's not buying it though.
BostonBrakeJob 6y ago
Re: Social Good realization there.
Re: Shark week "Is your mouth bleeding too?"
bat_out_of_hell_ 6y ago
OYS 4
35 Y/O, 6’1”, 174lb, \~13% BF, Married 1.5, Together 3, Kids 6mo , 8 & 10 (step)
Reading: WISNIFG 75%. Completed: NMMNG, MAP, Rational Male, TWOTSM. Next: 48 Laws of Power, Practical Female Psychology, MMSLP, reread NMMNG and do the exercises.
Mission
Guiding Principle: Become my authentic self. Live in the present.
Mission: Create a successful business. Be financially set.
Ethos: STFU / Let go of the past.
Physical
Met goal this week. Not in a good mindset though.
Going to step it up and follow an at home program. I enjoyed the routine of 5x5.
I am increasing weight and reps. Back is hurting so I will see a chiropractor this week.
Work / Financial
On a good track despite some recent setbacks.
Mindset
I recognized this week how extreme my need for validation has been. Alcohol has been a crutch to alleviate anxiety. I thought I was alpha because I had sex with a huge number of women. I realize now that sex served in a similar function as alcohol. One argument with the wife this past week (the first in a long time due to STFU) - I limited my engagement and I could see how much of a “nice guy” I have been in the past.
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
I'd read MMSLP before you read 48 LOP
Vegasman20002 6y ago
Nothing of value here.
bat_out_of_hell_ 6y ago
Looking for feedback. Happy to elaborate further next week and thereafter.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
Maybe I should write it for you, and do some thinking for you?
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
We can't give you feedback when there's so little substance
bat_out_of_hell_ 6y ago
You're right. I'm going to do it I should be taking it seriously and not give low effort. Next Tuesday I'll have a proper OYS.
I have MMSLP - it's just going to take me a little longer to read as there's no audiobook version.
I appreciate your response.
bluepillbandit 6y ago
OYS #20
Stats- Age: 40- 193cm 94.9kg, Waist- 35.75”, BF- ? (waist down 1” this week)
Lifting- Bench- 5x10@70kg
Relationship: Wife 39- Together 20 years- Married 16 years- Kids 10 & 7
Read: Dead bedroom fix, NMMNG, MMSLP, Saving a low sex marriage, Rational Male,
Reading: How to win friends and influence people (audiobook-60%). WISNIFG (50%), Own your shit- conquer Life (65%- a fairly high level cover on all MRP topics. So far doesn’t allow the deep work to be done though- it is however a good read for a short term kick in the ass)
To Read: NMMNG, MMSLP, Sidebar
Mission- Work in progress.
Thoughts for this week:
Preparation is everything. When I am prepared everything just works. More energy, kids, family, wife, work, exercise, etc. Everything.
Things I need to do better:
Read more. I haven’t been reading as much in the last few weeks.
/u/SBIII challenged me to go 30 days with no alcohol or junk food. I failed that on Saturday and Sunday. Some beers and some sweets. Back on track from Monday (8th June) so the 30 days starts again from there. On a positive note I’m an inch down on the waist so am less of a fat cunt this week.
/u/dust2dust45 challenged me to get my routines set and confront my fear of failures. I failed 7/7 days with my morning routine. 100% my fault. I chose sleep over getting up for my morning routine. The silver lining is the evening routine with the kids is well underway. Kids have been asleep by 8.30-9 the last two nights and I’m pushing to that to get to 8-8.30. This means I’m asleep by 10-11 which opens the door for my 7-8 hours of sleep and for the morning routine to actually happen.
Physical-
Missed a couple of workouts last week. No excuses. I am down nearly 2kg and an inch on the waist though and the difference is night and day. Diet is locked. Eating two meals (lunch and dinner) with fruit or a nut bar in between and then protein pudding with berries and dark chocolate for dessert. Too easy.
Mental-
No real change. The more I look after what I’m supposed to look after the better I feel. Not rocket science. This falls in the preparation ballpark. Do more around the house, feel better. Do more in the garden, feel better. Do more with the kids, feel better. Etc.
I am 18 days into no porn. I framed it to myself as "I don't watch porn. I'm not that guy". Worked surprisingly well and I haven't looked back.
Financial-
Same as last week. Have some biggish expenses lined up for new floor boards and paint for the house. Should have that cleared to go in the next 3-4 weeks. Still coming to terms with being up to date with bills though. This sounds weird but for someone who has been in debt and had anxiety over money for so long it’s a complete mind fuck. I need to actively remind myself that I have funds to pay the bills when they fall due. Have entered the important bills in my calendar as a reminder when they are due to ensure I don’t fall back on bad behaviours.
Professional-
Back in the office which is great. Getting far more accomplished this way. I have an agreement to take over/buy this business in the next few years. Till now I have put minimal thought into activating that sale option. I discussed with a close business associate some options and ideas of where to progress with the business once I do and I’m giving this far more serious consideration on what needs to be done to ensure its long term financial success once I do take it over.
Relationship-
Family-
Kids are back and school and into normal routine this week. Evening routine is taking shape although I still need to push them every night to get ready and get to bed on time. I have been more firm on enforcing boundaries and punishments and providing rewards. I see another week or two of pushing the routine before it’s solid.
Wife-
No update here. Initiated twice. Nothing. Initiations weren’t great and were left till quite late though given work and putting kids to bed. While I’m getting the remainder of my shit together this has actually taken a lower priority than I would like. I do have to admit that now I’m getting more sleep and not drinking I am noticing an increased sex drive/morning wood.
Social-
More of the same from last week. Speaking to mate on the phone. Have arranged for a social catch up in person. I realise the need to actually get out of the house and spend time away from the family.
Plan for the week-
Keep up evening routine with kids.
Implement morning routine for the next week as follows:
Read at least 10 pages per day.
dust2dust45 6y ago
I’m glad to see you can admit failing on the morning routine- and the only damaged is your ego, but I hope you gain the confidence to set a goal and work toward it instead of wallowing in fear and passivity over fear of failing.
It’s ok to fail because most of the time you can handle the consequences. Own your choices.
Awesome to see bed time going better. Don’t give up and give in to despair. You’re a man and can influence your environment. Enjoy these small quick wins, because it gets harder but your “muscles” and mindset improve.
You need to own your finances next: Have a bunch of money in your bill paying account and automate everything you can to be paid auto. It’s a way to permanent solve the problem and it won’t worry you - imagine how that feels!
bluepillbandit 6y ago
Addressing this is such a huge priority for me right now. I can vividly see how this fear has been holding me back over the years. In so many areas.
100%. Not only that I can see the difference in the kids immediately when I engage with them and set those firm boundaries. I'm only a few days into this but can definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Yes! Again this is part of that ego problem and fear of failure. Fear of asking for help and fear of taking a "step" backwards.
Thanks again for your help and feedback.
Work_ln_Progress 6y ago
OYS 4
Age: 25, LTR: 23, Together 3 years, No kids
Height: 175cm (5’9”), Weight: 89.5kg, Body Fat: 25% - (Navy Method–99cm/41cm)
Lifts (post-COVID): DL 1x5x110kg - Bench 5x5x70kg - OHP 5x5x40kg
Read - NMMNG, RM, TSAONGAF, Atomic Habits
In progress - RP sidebar, Everything Is Fucked
​
Goals
Do:
Bed w/ lights out by 9pm - 0/7
Meditate for 10 minutes - 1/7
Handstand Practice (1 set) - 1/7
Fast for 16+ hours - 3/7
Strength Training - 2/4
Cardio – 1/1
​
Don't:
Watch YouTube for more than daily allowance - 5/7
Use Reddit for more than daily allowance - 7/7
Use Pornography at all - 5/7
Play video games - 7/7
Eat Carbs - 7/7
Mental
We’re putting down the family dog today due to recurring illness that will only get worse as she has Cushings. I’m taking it harder than I thought I would, she’s been around for a long time and feels like part of the family. I know that she’s had a good life. It seems so wrong and unfair with her not knowing what’s going coming later today and never having done anything wrong to anybody in her life. Spent a few hours with her today and she’s had a good day but it’s rough. It’s a sad sad time.Have generally been doing well this week though. Kinda pissed that my weight hasn’t really gone down this week despite eating well. I think the main reason has to be failure to hit my IF goals and the booze up one night (though I still ate clean). Will keep sticking with doing what is right, being a bitch and binge eating because I’m unhappy with the results won’t help anyone.
Professional
Have basically been told by one of the shot callers at work this week to chill the fuck out and not go rambo. Was ready to start applying for other jobs but he reckons this place will sort me out. I definitely think it’s worth keeping an eye on the outside market but will STFU, do my work, and see what happens as things continue to shift around. There’s a chance things could still go my way.
Social
I went toa house party, which was great. I had been going to do a solo camping trip thatI keep putting off but figured that getting around real people should be myfirst priority. Will aim to do the trip some other time.Have just sent a reminder to my only 2 real friends (outside of the circle I have with my partner) in this city for steaks and shisha this Saturday. I’ve looked at meetup.com and identified the group I’m most interested in. There are two big hikes this weekend (a big 19km all day Sat or a more chill one Sunday). Will aim to do at least one depending on which day the guys want to come over. If I stick both the dinner and the hike, this’ll be massively more social effort/return than I’ve done in a very long time.Considering getting back into some Squash. I’ve always really loved it and it’s killer cardio.Interested in doing some BJJ/Muay Thai at some stage but combined with my gym membership it’d be very expensive and I don’t think there are any good places super near my house. In my city everything is close though so I probably don’t have much to complain about even if I do have to go across the city.
Physical
It feels good to have gotten back into the gym. There’s been a lot on this week so I didn’t get to go as many times as I wanted. When I’m there though I go all in and I didn’t lose much strength during COVID which was great. I’ve switched to a new gym that’s closer to the place I’ve moved to during isolation. I’ve gone from being surrounded by jacked dudes and hard core equipment to soy boys and lesser gear. I think I’ll stick with the convenient location for now but may end up switching back primarily for the testosterone filled environment.
Financial/Relationship
Nothing to report.
Work_ln_Progress 6y ago
It's embarrassing to publicly post that I can't stick to my basic daily goals. They're not even that hard.. Shit.
rightsided 6y ago
OYS #22
Married: 3 years. 3 kids
Height: 6', Weight: 214 (-1lb) - Target: 183lbs or 10\~15% BF
Lifts:
-As of 6/02/2020-
SQUAT: 285lbs x 1 - Target: 350+ x 5\~ or 420 x 1
BENCH: 250lbs x 1 - Target: 265+ x 8\~ or 315 x 3 or 330 x 1
DEADLIFT: 375lbs x 1 – Target: 500+ x 1
Health: Back in the gym. Kettlebell at home and jump rope of gym ‘rest’ days.
Read: TRM, NMMNG, MAP, Atomic Habits
Reading (max 3 books): Can’t Hurt Me, 'Bigger, Leaner, Stronger,’ Outwitting the Devil
Career/Work:
The more I interact with my team lead, the angrier and more resentful I become. I am trying my best to keep my mouth shut, and focus that anger on my own personal projects, gym, and side hustle.
I realized I have played it safe with my career and my life in general. Looking around at what I have, I am contempt, but part of me knows there’s more and I’ve been settling my whole life. I settled for shitty girls, I settled for shitty work, I’d convinced myself that this is what it is, and changing it would take to much effort. Fuck, I am angry. I am angry, but also disappointed. Chances I didn’t take in my life...
I know the road ahead is long, but if I stick with it, lean into my fears and embrace them, stick with the process and have faith in myself...
I’m not quitting my job yet, as I do need the safety net and that would just be plain stupid. However, I am leaning fully into my side hustle and learning, experimenting, taking chances, and taking risks with it. I have no fucking clue where it’ll lead me, but I am excited to find out, because I do know where my 9-5 leads: stress, more anger, bitterness, dreading going to work, etc.
This week:
Life is getting back on track. The govt. Has eased restrictions due to the low number of new cases of COVID-19. Work – Gym – Home – Study – has been the routine.
I thought about how I want to change the course of my life. So much seems dependent on the work I do. I want so much more for my kids, and myself, compared to what I had as a child. I constantly remind myself that you eat an elephant in small bites, rather than trying to eat it all at once.
I’m back to listening to podcasts and lately listened to Joe Rogan and Kevin Hart. It was very interesting how Kevin Hart talked about life being a game. That makes sense. You’re either a player or a spectator. I’ve been a spectator my whole life, and now I am becoming angry and bitter because ‘playing by the rules’ didn’t get me where I envisioned myself to be.
I keep asking myself if I am truly committed to the process. Only time will tell. I have so many questions, but I can’t produce the answers to them. All I can do is live day-to-day, stick to the process, and have faith in it. Is this normal or am I missing something? It seems like I am missing something...
Marriage:
My wife has been my greatest teacher this week.
Earlier, I recommended that we move the kids’ savings to an investment account, for them. She protested and busted my balls somewhat fierce: “I don’t trust that decision (your decision). I could see if you were a trader, but you’re not.” (some context: I trade stocks and options and have a decent size portfolio. I am attempting to turn trading into my new livelihood. Wife doesn’t know about this yet, however. ) This hit my ego fierce, but I was able to take a breath, and say to myself “You aint there yet, faggot. You got work to do.” instead of DEERing, I STFU and took it as a lesson: get to work.
She also threatened divorce, during one of her outbursts, to which I replied: “You’d make me a happy man. Go get the paperwork today and I’ll sign it. Then get your shit, and get out.” - As soon as I finish up Can't Hurt Me, I'll add TWoTSM back to my reading list.
Kids:
I’m getting along so much better with my first-born son. This was my problem. I was projecting my bullshit onto him. I now try to accept him for who he is, and he’s great. He has since 1) asked to play with me instead of mom (he is usually a mommy’s boy), 2) didn’t wet the bed on a few occasions (other times, he was still wearing a diaper to bed. Now sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn’t.) , 3) He used to hide mistakes, or ‘bad’ things. Now he comes out and says what he did. I have basically stopped spanking my kids. If anyone needs a spanking, I realized, it’s me and their mother for being half-assed parents.
Though they still do things I’d rather they not do, I understand they’re just kids.
Days without PMO: 0 – Jerked off right before I submitted this.
I am the master of my fate, the captain of my soul.
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
OYS 24: Mid 30’s, 6’ 186lb, BF? Will get it tested when able, Separated, one kid 3yrs (f)
Week Goals
Reading: NMMNG, MMSLP, Pook, MAP, Side Bar, Unchained male, models, The Eagle and the Dragon, WOTSM, WISNIFG, The dating playbook for men, The subtle art of not giving a fuck, The Rational Male, Awareness, Meditation Book (40%), NMMNG (95%), Stop walking on eggshells (55%).
Physical: Be strong, fit, powerful and injury free into old age.
Separation:
Ex has been trying to guilt me. Same tactics that were used in the relationship, they are having an effect on me but I am sticking with this. I will negotiate outside court if she wants but I am not stopping this because I feel bad for her, worry about her saying I’m a crappy person, causing her hurt, betrayed her, everybody thinks XYZ etc. Ongoing essay length messages about it all. I am trying to look at this as a growth opportunity, when she accuses me of being a bad person/how everybody thinks I’m a bad person etc it stings, I’m trying to let that go.
She has said she will be using the fact that I was previously charged against me and will make sure my abusiveness is clear, might forward her u/Red-Curious recent post.
Mental/Mindset: Express myself authentically.
This week has not been great, the ‘joy’ I was experiencing had been decreasing over the past few weeks and was basically absent this week. Certainly not as bad as I was, I am not getting as low but not feeling the ‘joy’ in life and I’m really lacking meaning. Lots to unpack in the meaning bit of that but I’ll probably address that in a later OYS.
For now I am trying to figure out a few things that I think are related to each other:
Fatigue/Motivation
Feeling insufficient, not good enough, not deserving
I feel two fundamental fears:
These might just be one underlying fear of ‘I am not worthwhile’ which drives a need to be something that is worthwhile and therefore being scared of not being good enough. I am not sure yet. Either way, I think these two underlying fears drive most of my fear based behaviors and probably most of my behaviors across the board seeing as I am mostly fear driven.
Loneliness
I think feeling not worthy and everything that comes from that is leading to some loneliness. Also, I am struggling to kill some of the blue pill truths.
My Plan
Parenting: Provide an environment for my daughter that gives her the opportunity to grow into a happy, healthy and capable person.
Didn’t organize something I should have for daughter because I left it to last minute. Dropped the ball here and will up my game. Also, I only spent about 5min looking up independent play however I did implement what I learned which has had positive results.
Ex is continuing to involve daughter in our drama, asking a 3 year old about things, recording it and sending it to me. I am trying to provide a positive, supporting and consistent environment for her to counteract this bullshit.
Misc
I’m bored, just going through the motions of life. I need to have something to look forward to, its difficult right at the moment with COVID and the court date. Really these are excuses. I am struggling with that ‘hunger’, I just don’t fucking care that much. I would like to, I would like to be passionate but I’m not.
I’m really hurt by my ex, I wanted to be angry and just go and win at life and not care, but I do, and it hurts.
I am seeking purpose out of a place of need. I do not feel whole in and of myself and then I look at bringing value into the world as a way to feel validated, and fill the emptiness, fear and tension inside me. When I am in nature, I feel most whole, and there I can best see what value I have to provide rather than desperately seek for something. I need to fully embrace that I am whole as I am and from there send my value into the world. Will read WOTSM again.
Feld down a bit this week, noticed I felt like using porn and then masturbation to avoid these feelings. Instead I sat with experienced them.
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
These breaking free activities are a bit weak. I am focused on short term at the moment, and I don’t think now is the time to take on something like ‘starting a new business/career etc’ this made it hard to actually dig deep and see what I thought of these things. Having said that, two key things jumped out at me. I have two key underlying fears that drive a lot of other issue in my life:
I am not good enough
Breaking Free Activity # 40: Review list and identify tangible fear then write down how you will confront it. Take a small step – ask someone to encourage and support you
I feel like I have many fears and my life is dictated by my avoiding them. I think the two core ones are being found out as ‘not good enough’ and that I am ‘not worthwhile’. These seem to drive much of my behaviour.
Breaking Free Activity # 41: What do you want in life? What prevents you from making it happen? Write down three things you want to make happen in your life. Write down a personal affirmation that will take you where you want to go and put it where you will see it. Share your dreams and affirmations.
I am more focused on short term goals right now so struggled with this section a bit. I am making the things I want happen. Long term:
Affirmation: I am whole as I am, I don’t need money, women or anything external to complete me. From this place of abundance I provide my gift to the world.
Breaking Free Activity # 42: How does your perfectionism or need to do it right get in the way of your passion and potential? Pick one thing you have always wanted to do, now ask: If you knew this would be a success, would you hesitate to do it? Would you feel the need to be perfect? Would this motivate you to get started? What risks would you take if you knew you couldn’t fail?
I have always wanted to start my own business. There is a lot to unpack here, am I doing it for the money, is it even worth it, my fear, watching parents go bankrupt, can I handle the stress etc. If I was not worried about any of these things, I would just do it, I would not worry about my success but just start working.
Breaking Free Activity # 43: Do you believe your needs are important? Do you believe other people want to help you meet your needs? Make a list of helpers:
I still struggle with my needs mattering, with the core fear of my not being worth-while – if I ask for a need to be met and it is not then this ‘confirms’ I am not worth-while. However, I feel I have made progress here since starting the book (for the 2nd time).
Helpers:
I’m missing a few areas – partners for sexual needs, business/career mentorship, and someone with a more RP bent IRL.
I don’t ask as much as I could because:
I feel awkward accepting help (I am not worth while)
Breaking Free Activity # 44: Identify how you sabotage yourself. Determine what you have to do differently to get what you really want. (he provides a list of items to review) I have picked some of them and put the ones in that I know are my problem.
UsefulWalk4 6y ago
This is shitty, sorry you have to deal with it. Be the Oak. Don't let your EX see how much this bothers you. She'll stop if she fails to get a reaction out of you. Limit contact to logistics as much as possible.
Find something you enjoy doing, doesn't matter what. Ideally with a friend. You deserve it. Right now your OYS makes mine sound like a carnival ride. It's great you are serious, it's great you are working so hard, but find something this week to enjoy, just for you.
nemo_land 6y ago
True and to my mind he should talk to random girls. It has helped me in the past as a bachelor.
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
Thanks, limiting my reaction is key. I just keep in mind how this will look to the judge.
Booked in for today and another on Sunday!
PillUpAss 6y ago
You still seek validation from without, which is why you feel empty. Having a “loving and fulfilling” relationship is a BP goal you were taught to have. How are your hobbies coming along?
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
I keep catching myself looking for external validation in more sneaky ways. I'm trying to catch this as it happens but also replace it with internal validation.
How would you phrase what you want from a relationship? I'm struggling to figure this one out because the reality is, I would like a relationship, and I want it to be loving and fulfilling... however I don't want to compromise myself for it.
My hobbies are all outdoors things that I do recreationaly, hiking, kayaking etc. I think I need something I can make 'progress in'. I keep telling myself I'll do xyz once the trail is sorted with ex but that could be up to 8months away. I need to start incorporating some things now.
PillUpAss 6y ago
Why target a relationship as a goal?
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
Because I probably want one in my life and can do things to get it. When I want something else in my life that’s how I approach it. I don’t mean compromising myself for it like I use and still do but it is something I want. I want the connection with another person, I like the intimacy and depth. Having said all that, I understand (sort of) the dangers of putting that goal above others and that really a relationship is an emergent property of living your life in a certain way. As you can probably tell, I don’t really understand this all yet.
PillUpAss 6y ago
What needs does having a relationship fulfill other than “you like it”? Is there a healthier way to fulfill those needs?
Remember, unlike the feminine, the masculine can stand alone and find full contentment in simply pursuing its missions.
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
Well I guess there is my first problem, I can't stand alone and find full contentment yet. One of the things I realized last week was that I'm seeking a mission, and everything really, from a place of need. I feel like I am missing something and I'm trying to fill that with something external.
What needs a relationship fulfills; I like the intimacy with another person, the trust we develop, having someone for company, support, the feminine energy. I'm vary aware some (most?) of those are due to my not being a self reliant person. But even when I am self reliant, I think I will still want someone I can develop intimacy with and their feminine energy. I guess it's hard for me to really know what this looks like when I still feel like I need something other than myself to feel whole.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
If you haven't done so already, go get your T checked ASAP. Your entire OYS is an advertisement for low-T symptoms - notably the laziness, lack of motivation, and ill-planning.
nemo_land 6y ago
You might be right about this. However i am myself against pills because it is temporary fix. Sarging is a good way to feel more adrenaline and alive. If you are separated : it would be good time to do this stuff if you live in a big city !
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
I don't have my T quite sorted yet but I think it can be hard to understand the difference it makes. It was like night and day when I first started, improved my mental well-being probably 2 fold. Reduced anxiety, improved drive and optimism, I started having periods of consistent 'joy 'in my life for the first time in about 7 years etc.
I'm typing this out for when you read other peoples OYS, low T is more common than its made out to be and while I'm still fucking around trying to get mine right, the initial improvements were life changing. It's good to keep in mind there are a variety of reasons people are the way the are and things that might help them.
Also, I have been plating, mostly on apps (I'm not a fan of going out for a bunch of reasons but will have to do it at some point).
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
You're a retard.
I'm talking about T-injections potentially. They are life long.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
chemicals are bad :-/
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
I started T cream a while ago and after a few weeks started feeling great, increased drive, overall well-being etc, that has slowly been decreasing and this past week was at a low. I'm not sure if there is something going on with the T or if it's the current life circumstances.
I have always lacked 'drive' so I'm guessing it's the latter. I am going to be looking into this over the next few weeks but I'm struggling to separate stress from trial etc from actual motivation/thoughts.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
I started on cream two weeks ago after using gel. How long ago did you start? My T was below 400 when I started on gel, and only 490 after months of gel so upgraded to cream. Almost certainly will go the injection route unless the cream works wonders. 4x a day BTW.
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
Started 12 weeks ago. It worked great for me, I noticed dramatic mental improvements starting 2-3 weeks in and peaking after 1-2months. I had levels checked and they were high, I'm just using the cream in the morning on my balls. I am looking into whats going on now, but suspect it's my own head rather than the cream. I have blood test to do in August to check in with Dr so will see if I wait until then.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
My understanding is you supposed to use it on muscle. you can have negative consequences using it the way You are
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
The Dr I go to is a specialist in TRT and advises putting it on balls. I have researched it 'a bit' and that was the same conclusion I come to but I'm not a Dr. I know the initial studies were done using T gel which uses alcohol as the solvent - unpleasant to put on your balls. But like I said, I'm not a Dr so basically going off Dr google.
Deathmetal_deadlifts 6y ago
Can you dose the gel/cream yourself, are there any side effects to watch out for?
I was thinking about doing this, the only slight problem is I have to do it without doctor supervision and buy the thing on the black market.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
Go to Defy Medical. I use them and a lot of other guys do as well. 100% satisfaction
MonkModeActive 6y ago
Loneliness is a feeling. Isolation is a disorder. Solitude is a blessing.
I heard this from another when I was suffering similarly, this has helped me along the path from time to time and I hope it will help you also.
You don't write much about male companionship. How are you going with friends in real life? Is this something you dedicated time and effort to?
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
I like this.
It's all in my head. I have a few close male friends, most are pretty BP but that's pretty standard. My problem is I get all cut up that nobody loves me, nobody accepts me just for 'me' , I'm all on my own, etc all that crap. I think my ego is at play here. I have often felt this way in the past and the thing that helped most was some of the Buddhist teachings. They are often wrapped in so much crap though which is annoying. I recently bought a book on it that's supposed to be more secular.
nemo_land 6y ago
If you feel lonely , you should spend one night trying to get new friends and make effort . Thats what i do personnally.
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
I appreciate the suggestion. For me, the issue is in my head, I have plenty of friends, it's easy to find girls with apps (I never had these when I was single in the past!) but I fall into the thought pattern of 'nobody will love me for me', waa waa etc. I think it's very ego driven as well as some practical components. My plan is:
About point 4 above: At the moment, I am realizing women only want me for what I provide and that feels shallow (even though I want close to the same thing..) but I need to better understand how they can provide value to my life. I have always had BP relationships and so I don't have an example in my life where they legitimately add value without me pretending they are something they are not. Because of this, when I start killing that BP lie I am left with nothing and feel alone, how do I even incorporate women into my life? I want more than a series of plates, I want emotional connection, I think I want that because it gives me something I dont have, I think this is what TWOTSM is talking about but I don't know right now.
u/HornsOfApathy you advocate TWOTSM, am I on the right track with the paragraph above? I don't expect a full breakdown but could let me know if TWOTSM is the right tool here and at this time? I have read it once and intend to read it again but I have been working on more fundamentals for a while.
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
Sounds like you're having a similar problem to the one I was having. Similar but not quite the same angle. I've more than half way changed this mental model - maybe look at the comments on my last 6 or 7 OYS's - there's gold in there from the guys on the sub that you can use to look inward and fix this broken mental model, and its broken in more ways than you think.
You're lacking internalization of the "I am the Prize" mentality, and this indicates you don't accept yourself as you are now, and don't value yourself as you are now.
"Nobody will love me for me" is a statement where your mental point of origin starts outside yourself from the word go, and rely on something external to determine your value and worth. It also strongly implies that your internalized, instinctual feeling about yourself (your mental point of origin) is I am inadequate "just the way I am" (NMMNG language used here since you've been doing the exercises, you may want to do the ones about self acceptance again as it seems it didn't stick)
What worked for me when it comes to the "loneliness" is realizing that I don't want to be a man who has to rely on anyone for support, so that "loneliness" is a built in consequence to that goal which I accept fully
BUT
That doesn't mean that I won't seek both male and female relationships that add value to my life (because I've also accepted internally that I always add value on my end - that's now a "given" for me in my mental models, so I'm not worried about it being valuable for them, I know it is, and I believe congruently that they're lucky for me to share my time with them. And if I slip from this thinking I correct it.)
u/tyred_biggums may want to chime in here, he had solid insight for me
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
Thanks for this comment, you are spot on.
Will do. I follow your OYS as I can relate to a lot of the issue you bring up.
Yeah I still can't shake this. I am getting better but I was just writing in this weeks OYS, I need 'something wrong with me' to justify any needs or anything that's not perfect. It's not ok to just need something or to just have something wrong with you.
I'm starting to transition into this, something I think the issues I'm grappling with at the time are growing pains rather than underlying causes. For e.g. here, I'm growing into the above statement but still don't feel whole in and of myself/feel insufficient and so I feel the loneliness more acutely. It's not loneliness I'm battling with, its self worth.
This is where I want to be. As I said above, a lot stems from feeling like I'm not enough just the way I am, this leads to feeling like I 'need' others and needing someone is not love. As a result I feel lonely because I'm looking for that person to fill some gap that they can't.
Did you use anything beyond NMMNG to help aid your introspection into feeling 'enough, just the way I am'? I'm struggling with really integrating these beliefs, I can understand it theoretically but deep down, I still 'feel' not good enough.
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
I had to take a very real look at what I "felt" I needed to see in myself to feel like I was good enough. (What did I feel like was missing before I could start to call myself a HVM?)
Some places, my views made sense. Others, I had to adjust those goal posts to sync with reality and what was a reasonable expectation. And then I planned out exactly how I would get the missing pieces, and milestones along the way to each of them.
Since then I've been moving along the path I laid out for myself. I'm not moving as fast as I want, but I have to be my own judge on the daily and decide if what I'm doing is enough despite my want to move faster, or if I need to push harder because I'm being lazy or holding back.
Its great practice for internalizing my value, because I have to hold myself accountable and weigh things out so regularly.
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
Thanks, I can relate to this I’ll keep doing the work.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
TWOTSM will teach you the importance of living in your masculine and how to more deeply appreciate the feminine in a woman, and how that a good one can be a valuable ally on your journey.
RedBackedBadger 6y ago
Thanks, sounds like what I need. Might wait a bit to sort some other things before I read it.
elrojozul 6y ago
OYS 28
Stats: Age 41, separated from wife (38). 3 kids (5, 8, 9). Height: 5'9". Weight: 71kg (156lbs). Most recent (pre-lockdown) 5/3/1 lifts - Bench 72.5kg (160lbs), OHP 47.5kg (105lbs), DL: 150kg (330lbs), squat 102.5kg (220lbs). Now working a mix of Pavel Tsatsouline’s Simple and Sinister and Enter the Kettlebell routines. Have read most of the sidebar at least once.
On day 2 of a 3 day fast, so my energy is low. Will see how much stamina I have for this OYS.
Last week's goals:
complete my first assignment for my Spanish course and submit it to my tutor (all online)This week I will meditate 5 times for 10 minutes and journal 5 times (preferably in the morning).I have also taken Thursday off work this week. I will have a solo mushroom trip and journal during and afterwards.This week I will work out with kettlebells (swings and presses) three times.After my 30 day experiment with the carnivore diet I decided to try a prolonged fast. Yesterday was harder than today, but although I don't feel hungry I have little stamina and would prefer to be left quietly alone. It's been great, though, testing my (perceived) limits. I recently bought Tim Ferriss's Tools of Titans, which is full of ideas and tips for a better life. After the carnivore and fasting experiments I will try something else, keep up the experimental lifestyle.
I can feel that I've been quietly changing these last few months. Doing more for myself, taking more control of my life. I am now working on Spanish daily, which as I've said before, is the biggest lever to affect change in my life. I live in Spain but work in English, so I'm isolated from the culture. Although I can speak OK Spanish, improving it would increase my options (and social circle) enormously.
Friends/social
There's a limit to what I can do due to lockdown, but I've been spending online time with friends in the UK and having fun that way. I've also been checking out MeetUp for group activities here. I noticed that a men's group has started in my city. It would all be in Spanish, so it'd be far out of my comfort zone, but I need to push that comfort zone harder. I have an existing plan for their next meeting (a Zoom call with old colleagues) but I will contact the organiser this week and see if I can join their next meeting.
Spiritual / growth
I grow "magic" mushrooms from time to time, and took last Thursday off work to have a trip and journal. Unfortunately it seems like a duff batch and the effects were much lower than expected for that dose (3g). Still, through journaling and, better, voice messages on my phone, I achieved some insights on my life. I have always taken the short term easy option, thinking of the alternative as doing chores for some overseeing parent. Realising that actually these are things I should do for *myself* - specifically, future me. Eating well is doing future me a favour. Not smoking is in my best interests. Working on Spanish is for *my goals*. This sounds pathetically obvious, and yet, it changed the way I think about my day to day.
Goals for the week:
keep meditating and writing the journal. 5 times for each this week.
Identify other practices or habits to develop.
Physical
Did well with the kettlebells this week. Will keep that up this coming week. Goal: successfully complete the 3 day fast.
Admin
A few boring things I need to do - putting them here to keep myself accountable.
This week I will start the process for driving license renewal, passport renewal and opening a new local bank account.
Listerine10 6y ago
OYS#1
My first OYS. Been lurking since January. Been meaning to OYS for a couple of months.
43yo 5'10'' 156lbs 16% BF, married, together 25 years, kids 2
Read:
NMMNG, WISNIFG, MMSLP, TWOTSM, TDBF, HTWFAIP, PFP, Pook
Reading:
TRM
Health/Physical:
Keto
Lost 23 lbs since February, down from 23% BF.
Run 5-7 miles every other day.
On the other days: Kettlebell 35lbs three sets of: 10xSwings, 2x10xRows, 2x5xClean/Squat/Press, 10xHalo, 10xCore rotation
Stronglift 5x5 will probably be my goto once I start attending the gym again.
Goal: 154 lbs, 15% fat, then build muscle and maintain weight.
Mental:
Long term: Develop a frame.
Short term: STFU on shit-tests, DNGAF on rejections.
Finances:
Comfortable. Refinancing mortgage to cut .75 off the interest.
Family/Marriage:
I'm slowly taking ownership and leading my wife and kids. I have been the typical drunk captain, forcing my wife to push me for action and leaving it up to her to plan family events. My constant resistance has been my way of not letting the amount of projects around the house get out of hand. But instead of saying yes, or no, or defining a timeline, I have been avoidant. This has given her the impression, when it finally gets done, that she needs to apply constant pressure. This may not have been far from the truth. Obviously, it's not easy for her to trust me now, but I've been getting some signs of appreciation when I have been "out-of-character" in planning events for us all, me and the wife, and for me and the kids. Hardest part for me is to get over the anxiety of risking planning something without knowing if she already has plans. I try to just think, "what's the worst that could happen"? The answer is probably a minor shit-test, which I guess would make for some good practice.
Sex:
Not happening. It's been over 6 weeks. I used to "initiate" and whine a lot, but stopped that in January after a major fight. After not asking for it for 5 months it now feels a bit awkward, but I'm slowly starting to initiate and be mindful of keeping it OI. This is not too hard, since I have realized I no longer want the sex I might get by nagging.
Goal: Kino, and initiate several times a week.
Social:
I will keep an eye out for opportunities to use /u/Blarg_Risen's advice on conversation. Not that I'm socially inept or anything, but I think having more social interaction, especially right now, is a good way to be more interesting, funny and outgoing. Be more fun, have more fun.
BostonBrakeJob 6y ago
Do yourself a favor when you're making plans and just ask your wife if she already has plans.
Listerine10 6y ago
Right! Why do I think it's necessary to make it a surprise?
I'm way too used to her keeping the calendar and me being oblivious,
mrpfuckarounditis 6y ago
OYS #8.
Stats:
Age: 46(m) 39(f) Together: 11 years. 3 kids.
Height: 5.9'; Weight: 180lbs SQUAT: 207lb BENCH:202lbs OH PRESS: 121lbs DEADLIFT: 238lbs, BARBELL ROW: 160 lbs, all at least x5 BF: 21%
Reads and thoughts:
Steel's Guide to Married Red Pill, WISNIFG, MMSLP, The rational male Year One, NMMNG, The Game, Steel's Guide to Married Red Pill, MRP Beginner's Guide for the Career Beta. Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
The Mindful Attraction Plan (not finished)
Book of pook (not finished)
Audiobooks:
TWOTSM – Someone commented I was not ready for this one. I wasn't. I will re-listen in a few months.
Podcasts -I listen while training or chores. Nothing from the sidebar (should I mention it here?), I am on the "You are not so smart" podcast as I like to learn about psycology, bias, delusion, etc. I like it.
Currently reading: latest posts in MRP and askMRP. I own I am still not done with the sidebar and already focusing in a project. I need to read.
Myself:
Since my last OYS I have set some goals and started to take action to reach them.
I am at home now, so I have balanced work, training, household and teaching kids (oh boy this kids have more homework than me). I own I could do things better. Always I could do things better, that is my main motivation now. Kids are happy. First priority now.
I decided to focus on a computer project I am building. It will help my current and future work and it may get me some extra money. Tracking the hours and doing a minimum of an hour a day (Monday till Sunday). I own that, depending on my emotions, I am slacking a bit. Still, just 100 minutes behind schedule in one month. Learned a new technology and applied some knowledge I have, so I am satisfied.
I am being too emotional lately. Probably the angry phase is still hitting me. I own that I think too much and not the right way. Need to meditate more and read more of the sidebar.
Current goals and status:
- Computer project: learning new technologies, working on schedule, goal is to launch a minimal version next month.
- Reach 1000 lbs club: just realized my lifts did not go up too much in a month. Body composition has changed, but to get stronger I need to change strategy (minor injuries are always making me stall). I will do the ax-1 training from athlean-x to avoid injuries and then recalibrate. Aiming to go injury free and reaching it at the end of the year.
- Play guitar. And sing. I will be a rock star. Yeah I also don’t believe it, but it is fucking fun. Had to prioritize one goal. 24h and kiddos are limiting me to one hobby, will go for my project.
- Be consistent with my working, training, household, etc. I need to put it as a goal because being the best me is part of my mission. It is not a goal. It is me now.
Relationship:
Things have been going fine on the surface, more sex, more good times, less discussions, but I am still remorseful for the bluepill times, the lies and the attitudes. I own it is my fault, but still I cannot overcome this without going retard and I shift-blame to my partner as well. I own I am lost here, I kind of think I am not the right path.
I had three events this last month:
- First event: discussion. Yada yada. I cannot STFU. Did not like what I heard. “I am trapped in this relationship”. I am doing my best and this hurts. Yes, nothing that comes from her mouth matters, but… man, if your partner tells you she is trapped after you have been trying to better yourself for months… yeah my fault, I own it. I STFU. Things calm down.
- Second event: based on the first, the next discussion I am hamstering and I cannot control myself, therefore I decide to go for some chores outside the house (I just said "I have things to do" and she wanted to know exactly what things they were). I get a shower to leave the house. I cannot leave the house because she hid my car and house keys. Tried for 30 minutes to get them back (but I did not want to talk about what were my chores -mundane stuff at the mall-, just said again and again that I had things to do, so I did not get the keys). I got the replacement and left anyways. That sucks, I have no idea how to react here. She even tried to put herself in front of the car while I was driving away. I was so “fight or flight” that I simply drove. She was smart enough to get out of the way, but threatened me with calling the police. Dangerous territory here. I come back and don’t talk until she agrees not to steal my keys again. I need freedom of movement. She agrees and things calm down. I am still remorseful because I expressed years ago that I need to be able of moving out of emotional situations (in the past, she physically blocked the way with her body expecting me to push her and overreacting, threatening with calling the cops, etc, or locked doors, etc, this puzzles me as I do not know how to react in these situations), boundaries mean nothing.
- Third event: Other emotional fight, started by me and triggered by memories of her affair. After that one I am reflecting. Things just go fine if I do dancing monkey (I think I don’t, I just do what needs to be done). At the very moment I express an opinion or make a move that is against her comfort or thoughts, there is rage and anger, manipulation, hate and threats. I like the sex improvement and the peaceful life most of the time, but there are no small discussions, every disagreement comes to “I don’t want a life with you”. And this was a clear boundary for me (we can fight, but we need to be in the same boat). I cannot force someone to be with me. I own that I still have oneitis and this breaks my family idea, but at some point this needs to stop and I don’t know how.
And that is where I am. I suck at setting boundaries or expressing needs, I mean: I express just few boundaries and needs and boundaries are broken and needs are not fulfilled, and this is eating me inside. So I will restrict interactions to the basic communication about kids until I calm down or have a better idea. I am busy enough improving other areas of my life. Sounds rambo to me and I am in the need of advice. If this is full retarded roast me, but I have the need to stand my ground, and I am blind on how to do it otherwise.
Lifting:
I have been told I am in a very good shape several times lately. Honestly, it is not difficult when most of the guys around are lazy as hell, I am far from my goals. And minor shoulder injuries are slowing down my progress. I think I am finished with Phraks Greyskull LP now. I will do ax-1 from athlean-x in the hope of getting more balanced exercise and avoid injuries, and then will go for the strength goals. Want to do 1000 lbs club before the end of the year.
Diet & habits:
I still cook, so diet is good. I still eat some shit in the evening, but I guess I am training enough to burn that extra calories. Anyways I will reduce that as well, as the scale is showing me the same BF% than a month ago.
Weed is over since the last OYS. I will not buy more and then I can keep myself clean. Some cigarette and beer here and there, smoking is disgusting and addictive, I need to quit. I am weak.
I have enough rest, and I am sleeping my 8 hours.
I need to meditate to keep my emotions balanced.
Financial:
We share expenses. No change here. My project is still not launched, so no profit in foresight (and even if it is not profitable in the end it would be beneficial for my work, so I keep working on it). I just realized writing this that I am financially fucked if I leave, so yes, the project will need to be profitable after all.
Social:
Social life is still paused where I live. People is really scared of the virus. I am going to the beach with the children and having good times. Just one afternoon out with colleagues for some sport, we plan to do it regularly but it did not happen yet.
man_in_the_world 6y ago
The point of STFU is not to play passive-aggressive Mr. Mysterious "beta dread" or power games with your wife by refusing her comfort, nor to give her the passive-aggressive "silent treatment". Be a man of essential words, who says what he means and means what he says, who speaks sparingly but also always authentically ... not a faggot who plays the same beta games with his silence as he does with his hamstering and DEERing.
What meaningful boundary are you setting, or game are you winning, by refusing to briefly inform her which store you'll be shopping at and converse about what you intend to buy, as you get ready to leave? If your intent was to duck a conversation or a shit test in which you feared loss of frame ... congratulations, you escalated a minor failure into a huge one.
Stop playing games with your words ... or by withholding them.
mrpfuckarounditis 6y ago
Thank you for your comment. You are right, I totally missed the comfort test in the middle of the storm and you read perfectly the situation. There was no meaningful boundary to set, and the reason for leaving without explanation was only a childish and angry "fuck you" because I could not deal with the emotional situation. Thinking on that, I was also influenced by reading "some" advice in "some" comments "some" time ago related to "do not tolerate bad behavior". I created a false "action plan" (escape mysteriously if you feel overwhelmed, this will create dread and teach her a lesson). And I am sure I misunderstood the point of that comments. Yeah I am still influenced by my initial "search of recipes" for MRP, and revisiting my mental schemas. I fall, I rise, I dust myself off, and carry on walking, wiser than before. Thanks again.
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
Fucking wild. Another woman who hides her husband's keys. And a man who tries to run her down with a car. I hope its not this bad. But it seems like it's headed there.
Stop fighting. Stop trying to win. Kill the oneitis. This is not the marriage you want.
You're not ready to stand your ground. But you can start leading:
(Humbly) "I'm no saint. But I'm working on myself. This is not an acceptable way to act. And i will not have it in my life. Id like you to X."
X is "give me back my keys"
X is "talk to me in a normal tone."
X is "not jump in front of the car."
She WILL jump down your throat for showing such weakness. Let her. Who cares. You're working on you, and making plans for divorce. If she chooses to come along, then you can start standing your ground. But in order for her to care about your boundaries, she has to buy in. And before she buys in she has to stop actively sabotaging you by trying to win. And for her to stop trying to win, you need to stop valuing winning.
So when she jumps down your throat after saying this. You say "I understand". Then STFU. I REPEAT, then STFU. She won't comply. You don't care enough anymore to try and fight that. The expectation is there. Ship is leaving. Is she on? Or off?
mrpfuckarounditis 6y ago
Thank you for your comment. I believe I am not trying to win. I am getting better at shit tests, I default to STFU, or to change the topic, or I try Amused Mastery, or negative inquiry, or grab one of her boobs with a smile... in general everything goes fine and life continues, the boat moved a bit, I don't even remember one hour later. I think I have improved my OI. Other times, I do what you suggest, and yes, she jumps to my throat, she chews me up and down and pushes all buttons, and I am still not affected. There was a storm, but the boat stays the course. I stay on deck drying my clothes and a few hours later I don't even remember. I have no issues with her moods or shit tests. The problem is me, I am still not the rock in the storm and sometimes I am affected and fail the test. After writing this, I do not know what am I talking about. Shit. I just need to STFU, continue doing what I am doing, and stop whining. Sometimes I fail, and failing is part of learning. No need to torture myself with a long-big fight until I achieve OI and get rid of my oneitis. I will add "I understand" and STFU to my toolset. Back to work on me. Thanks again for your time.
TheActionNerd 6y ago
OYS 26
30y, height: 186cm, waist: 86cm, neck: 38cm, 87.1kg, navy: 16%. wife 26 married 1 year, together 5 years. 0 kids.
Pre-Coronavirus: Back Squat: 95kg, Deadlift: 110kg, Bench Press: 65kg, Overhead Press: 47.5kg, Pendlay rows: 60kg
Readings:
MMSLP, NMMNGx3, TWOTSMx4, Pookx4, Rational Male, Preventive Medicine, How to Win Friends and Influence People, Models, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, Art of Seduction, WISNIFG, Day Bang, Mastery, Mindful Attraction Plan, The Charisma Mythx2, Extreme Ownership, The Power of Habit
Currently reading: 6 Pillars of Self-Esteem
Physical
Bought a Ring Fit Adventure game on switch to supplement my workouts. Still doing bodyweight workouts every 2 days as the UK will be on lockdown for at least another month. Plan to play the game every off day as a way to supplement and work on my cardio as well. Still calibrating and finding ways to optimise my usage of it, but I’ve used it every off day since I got it. Still doing 1 day of yoga per week.
Weight actually went up but still I’m doing IF for at least 2 days per week. IF’d 2 days last week. I don’t specifically need to cut weight but do want to reduce BF%. Need to fix my sleep schedule, and started sleeping earlier from Sunday after 2 weeks of sleeping past 2am.
Finance/Career
Not much changes but I expect more responsibility with the promotion. Haven’t felt it just yet. Company is giving us 2 extra days of leave per month for the next 3 months. Along with my carry over leave from last year, I’ll be taking a week off this month. Still in lockdown though so as I’ll be stuck at home, need to set up clear plans for the week I am off so I don’t waste it doing nothing. Current planned tasks include: completing my tax for last year, re-organising closets and storage in the apartment, planning a weekend trip for the week I am off, and one subsequent weekend trip. Read 1 finance book and invest 2k into index options.
I did some research into my Employee Stock Purchase Plan (ESPP) which I haven’t been making use of. I missed it the first 2 years, but maxed it out subsequently in the last 3 cycles. I hadn’t been selling the shares from it though which apparently I’m meant to according to personal finance subreddits. So I’ve been making moves to consider selling that off, and setting up my account to autosell moving forward. I also have additional stocks as part of my contract which have accrued and I need to research to work out if I sell now or wait, mostly considering the tax implications.
Mental
Started reading 6 pillars of self-esteem and right away there are key deficiencies since I was young. The two main requirements of self-esteem are to have self-efficacy (confidence in one’s own ability) and self-respect (love of self), neither of which I had when I was young. One of my oldest memories was a small exercise when I was in year 5. We were to face away, count to 5 minutes and turn around when we thought it was 5 minutes as a sand timer was running. I remember counting and as I made my way towards the 5 minute mark, the self-doubt started in my mind. In the end, I counted to 4:50 and turned around, convinced that I would be off-beat. I turned around and watched the sand for over 5 seconds and I would have been much closer if I had just believed in myself.
Since getting older and just before my relationship, I was able to transfer some self-efficacy from my ability to play video games and consider them as real skills where I was confident. I don’t think I ever built up a healthy amount of self-respect though, as playing video games has always been frowned upon by my family and culture. I’m now focusing a lot of my meditation and visualisation time on mantras of self-love and images of myself being successful.
The first pillar is the practice of living consciously. I interpreted it as the importance of living in and understanding one’s own frame. Living through your frame is an important part of self-esteem as living through your own choices and actions is positive reinforcement. When I first met my wife, I had a frame and an idea of how I wanted my blue pill relationship to be. Over time, that frame was smashed to dust, and along with it my self-esteem within the relationship. Now, simple masculine tasks like gaming my wife or initiating can bring me anxiety and I need to push through my discomfort to do it.
Additionally, the author talks about how he got into his first marriage and my situation was very much the same. I proceeded into marriage trying to ignore the red flags and not being conscious or aware. I desperately wanted a woman in my life and I accepted the first girl that accepted me for who she could turn me into (a giant beta). I lacked abundance. I naively believed that marriage would solve the problems between us, even as sex dried up even before the wedding. It has dried up even further now.
The book hasn’t been easy to read due to the style of writing. I had similarly struggled with WISNIFG. Still making my way through the book at a slower pace. I will have gone through all 6 pillars by this time next week. I am going to incorporate the activities into my daily schedule. The first one is sentence completion to write down how I will live more consciously each day.
On the weekend, where I would usually expect duty sex (covert contract) but where I usually initiate, my wife decided to declare we weren’t having sex that day. I used that mention of sex as an in to be playful and initiate. I had her laughing and being playful while she playfully resisted. I was being a bit dominant, but then went back to old habits (no variation with my dominance) killing the mood. The playful atmosphere turned to annoyance which also got me into my own head. In the end, I couldn’t get aroused and after a few minutes I stopped and let her go. I was able to appear not butthurt and she later told me as I was working out that she was in a bad mood. I took it a shit test to try to check if I was butthurt along with justification for rejecting my initiation, and I was able to pass the shit test and didn’t try to fix her mood either.
I was butthurt though considering the covert contract. It wasn’t until I started writing my OYS did I realise how big the covert contract is. I wait all week, accepting my wife’s frame that we should only have sex on the weekend, and then it doesn’t happen. I was butthurt and decided that I wasn’t going to accept duty sex on the next day (Sunday). Neither was I going to initiate. The only positive from this event was that I feel that I am closer to outcome independence. In the past, I would get emotional just from thinking about the idea of giving up any sex (my ego protection response when I am angry/butthurt). Such is my need for validation from sex with my wife. For the first time, I actually didn’t care about having sex or not. I am going to try harder to be playful, game my wife and initiate on weekdays.
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
Everyone's got that time growing up where they failed. It stays with you because you didn't have the tools to deal with that then. Then you suppress it because it short circuits directly to the amygdala.
Bring that shit up during a meditation session. Relive it. Feel the fear. Think of the absurdity. Laugh at the conclusions you drew. Accept it.
As for your initiations, my wife is currently fostering a yappy dog. It doesn't seem to like men. If I come into the room and look at it, it yaps at me. If I approach it confidently however, it will let me pet it. Even lay with it.
If I approach it fearfully though, it will sense that and grow confident in its yapping. If I approach it jokingly, it doesn't really know what to think. And if it nips at me, I lightly smack it on the head.
Think about what message you're trying to send. Think about if your actions send that message.
TheActionNerd 6y ago
I'm not quite there on the internalised confidence, at least towards my wife and initiations. I want to send the message that I am a confident man who takes what he wants. My actions, not only in my initiations but in general around the home, don't reflect that yet. I am still mostly in the STFU phase.
I'm trying to fake it until I make it but the rejections are still getting to me. Over time, I believe that the rejections are having less of an effect on my frame, and this last rejection was a good indicator, despite my remaining convert contracts. I still have a while to go before outcome independence.
RStonePT 6y ago
Instead of worrying about the messaging, why not just be and do these things and let everyone else worry about perception?
TheActionNerd 6y ago
I have a bad habit of overthinking, and being considerate of others. I will be these things, or fake it til I can be these things.
RStonePT 6y ago
This is like book fucking 1 on the sidebar dude
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
Just for S&Gs, answer me, why do you want to do this?
TheActionNerd 6y ago
The only time I am in my element, unashamedly and confidently myself would be with my high school friends and playing games. That was because I was the best among them, and I believe that they would never "abandon" me. At those times, I would characterise myself as commanding, decisive, competitive and always trying hard, playing to win.
When I was growing up, I would often hear my older brother make fun of "try-hards" and do the same myself. I would view a "try-hard" as an undesirable characteristic. As I got older though, I realised aside from in playing video games, I hadn't really tried at all. I once did a toastmasters speech stating how important it was to try hard, because we only live once and need to face life fully, leaning into discomfort.
I still fuck around a lot. Self-sabotage from a lack of complete self-esteem.
I want to be a confident man who takes what I want because that's how I see myself when I am myself. When I'm not afraid, of rejection, or of abandonment. I am someone unrelenting, who wants to try their hardest, and takes what they want in order to win.
This has been a really useful exercise to understand why I made that statement.
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
Great work. Not a word about that was about convincing her. It was about you. No doubt it would be desirable she sees you as a man who is confident, and takes what he wants. But that's not the reason you do it. A+
ImpatientZen 6y ago
OYS #3 - anger phase
Previous: [OYS1] [OYS2]
​
Stats: 40, 6’0 195lbs (-2 from last OYS two weeks ago), 15%BF (-1, Navy) Wife 40yo SAHM Latina. Married 15 years, 1 son 6yo.
OYS 101 - lift, read, STFU:
Lifts (2RM’s): SQ340, BP257,5 PR178, DL445. Slight progress this 4week cycle in spite of weightloss.
Read: All of it. Internalized: Zilch. So. Finished MMSLP+MAP first as per a guide I somehow had forgotten about. Currently on NMMNG and some RP-posts sprinkled in.
STFU: Going well, laced with a lot of fun banter.
Things I have done well:
Diet and training continues to be easymode.
Arranging more social activities with friends.
Being and having more fun with the wife and family (including gaming her).
No porn/fap no problem complete OI wrt sex.
Personal hygiene improved.
Less DEERing more leading
Zero alcohol (this one is new).
Things that have gone less well:
Still thinking and feeling like an entitled and shit husband. See below and last OYS.
Still need to do more around the house. Want to cook more and clean up more.
I suck at praising and excel at bitching. I am decent (not great) with my son but shit with my wife.
I am letting work overwhelm me more than I’d like. I want to be more ahead and in control.
I haven’t finished my MAP yet.
Last OYS shit show.
I feel like the shit I need to own this time is my last post. I initially prefaced that post something like “I think I sometimes act like I am farther ahead than I am”. Apparently I ended up editing that out before posting, though it was probably one of the only meaningful things I wrote.
I got a deserved ban and some deserved flames for making it all about her, not me and for some of the stuff I suck at (see above) that was blatantly obvious. I wasn’t angry. I was immediately struck by gratitude for all of the reactions. It was a much needed reality-check, revealing how much there is to unfuck. For a second I considered removing the post (cringe, cringe). But I did those things, I thought those things, I believed(!) those things, I wrote those things. It’s mine to own, so there it stays. Every stinking piece of that turd. At least it can serve as a reminder of the power of my Hamster. I did create a new user, though, as this moniker seems to fit both my great weakness and strength/aspiration.
I did my time of course and have been spending the 14 day ban reflecting. I have been trying to unfuck myself for a long time. Therapy, dialogue with bros and broettes. Reading. Journaling. Meditation and spirituality. Exercise and nutrition. To some extent it worked. I am actually BETTER than what I was and how I acted in the past. But I had stalled. Even regressed over the last months. I knew it and could feel the incongruity. I had been searching for a while and finally came back here. And decided to jump in to OYS.
Maybe prematurely as per the clusterfuck. I just had the feeling I could’ve read the sidebar 15 times over without progressing. I can’t know if that would’ve been the case. But I do know that I got clear insight from a few, brief and harsh comments - more than from the last months of reading, talks, therapy blah blah. As an example I had actually read the Dancing Monkey Programme post just a bit before and thought “hmm, there might be something in me that corresponds to this”? SOMETHING? I have been dancing all my fucking life. Made it my Mission to be the best fucking dancer I could be. And used RP to improve my moves. Fuck.
Anger phase
So the anger came. I have had a very hard time accessing my anger in the past. But finally here it is. It wasn’t directed at my wife, as the last puke (though my Hamster has been working hard to get back to that space ever since, sadly somewhat successfully). It was, initially, still directed at others (I am a slow learner) - “I have been lied to!”. By society and the way we think (and don’t think). I got angry about how I was allowed to mentally fucking masturbate and victim-puke for AGES to everyone close to me. And amazingly getting positive reinforcement. Feedback on how I was right, that it wasn’t fair to me and how she should do X, Y, Z. How I deserve better. I have one bro who semi-called me out on some of it but nothing close to the couple of comments on here. What. The. Fuck.
And then after a bit of that it came home. I am angry at myself. That’s what’s been there the entire time and holy fuck I am pissed. At all the bullshit I’ve told myself and all the shit actions that have followed. And continue! Making everyone miserable including myself. My fear of actually owning my shit, desires, needs, idiosyncrasies etc. Needing permission to be me, working for validation, all that shit. And letting that shit creep into my actions, born out of resentment. And probably also overhearing the things people did say to help me see, when I was just too fucking blind.
In my re-read of important posts I later found the one on the anger phase, which confirms most of what was bumbling around in my head: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/2xi8sc/moving\_past\_the\_mrp\_anger\_phase/
Where now?
There is so much to cover here that I could go on forever. My entire history as a Dancing Monkey. The 3452 Covert Contracts I have with my wife, friends, the world. And so on. I am processing those and probably will have to do some of them in here as I go along.
For now it is 101 until I stop stepping on my own dick. There is plenty of room for improvement on the basics. I apparently just needed to play with dynamite, drink paint or whatever the name is on here a bit first. And surely will again, because I am slow. In particular I need to control my urge to just nuke the fucking thing and start over. I have more to figure out before I think seriously about that. I am considering figuring out how to set us up decently for an exit, if it comes to it.
Anyone who made it this far, thanks. With a special thanks to the ones who bothered to comment on last OYS and kicked my ass there. I am learning.
BostonBrakeJob 6y ago
Go see a lawyer. Seriously. Get the price tag, then compare it to what you're willing to spend.
ImpatientZen 6y ago
Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. And I will. It isn't about money as such. I am lucky that I have plenty and am pretty good at making more. And I have a pretty good idea of the outcome. Not bad at all for me. So I would be willing to spend it, no problem. Besides, my own expenses are ridiculously low so I will be fine.
It's more about custody as she is a foreigner and would like to go back home and take the kid to live there. If I am honest, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that but need to think long and hard about it because I am not sure it is congruent with the man I want to be.
In any event this is just to slowly prepare. I have plenty of work to do before I make decisions. Admittedly it is sometimes hard not to nuke the fucking thing. But I don't want to rage-quit at the first boss monster and then face it again when I respawn, as someone put it.
ImpatientZen 6y ago
As I am finally doing the exercises from NMMNG (thanks to RBB for the inspiration) I will post them here, also for accountability in doing them.
​
Breaking Free activity 1:
Write down three possible safe people or groups that might be able to provide support for you in your recovery from the Nice Guy Syndrome.
MRP forum and OYS feedback. Sign up to Rian Stones Patreon and feedback there. My psychologist.
**Breaking Free Activity #2**Why would it seem rational for a person to try to eliminate or hide certain things about himself and try to become something different unless there was a significant compelling reason for him to do so? Why do people try to change who they really are?
For me, my enmeshment with my mother and the model of an addicted, angry and unstable father lead to at least two things: 1) As per OYS2, it left me feeling that my masculinity is dangerous and not acceptable. Thus it was not OK to be me, to have wants and desires and to take responsibility for them. I was wrong - just like dad. 2) As a kid the stability and nurture came from mom - who wasn't getting her needs met with my dad. So I became enmeshed and a very effective Dancing Monkey for female validation and attention.
rotkohlblaukraut 6y ago
What is your focus? Why are you here?
I reread your OYS's. You dress OK. Your work is OK. Your lifts are OK. Your social is OK. OK, OK, OK. Yeah, your wife gives you some shit when you act unattractive and weak. Maybe the Latina thing kicks it up a notch, but it's not unique.
You're a seeker and a man of reading but not of action. You read something and get the same dopamine hit as if you actually did the thing you read about so you feel... wait for it... OK. All this stuff about meditation and Zen and phychologist and bad childhood... I get it. I do, been there done that. But at some point you have to realize that you're who you are, you can do what you want, the shit that's happened in your life may have added some conditioning to your mind, but it's nothing that can't be undone and it's nothing that fundamentally defines who you are.
MRP for you is just another thing you're seeking order to try to fill some kind of hole in you. The good news is, it can do that. The bad news is, as long as it's just something you read and then put on the bookshelf along with that bright orange copy of"'Dummies Guide to MFFF Lesbian Foursomes" that keeps catching your eye and reminding you that one day, you really really need to read it again and make some concrete actions to get into that stuff, it's just paper on a shelf.
So yeah, johhnyapocalypse makes a great point to say fuck all that shit. In the big picture, fixing some shit up is like peeling an onion. (Shrek, anyone?) You peel back some knowledge, some lifting skills, then the anger layer, then the action layer, then the reflection, as you get closer to the core of the thing. Maybe the right thing to do is to just sink those claws into the onion and savage that motherfucker. Or maybe not everyone, for whatever reason, has the capability to do that (or keeps telling themselves they don't, which leads them to not take action, which is really sort of the same effect, but is still nonsense).
So you're sniffing around this onion, wondering if you should peel it back because you see all these guys peeling onions and they seem like they have it pretty good. And maybe creating yet another identity for yourself as an onion man would be cool, let you fit in, since that whole Lesbian FFFM dungeon master thing didn't work out.
Maybe I'm right, or maybe this is just another coffee and Hungarian salami fuelled rant from some internet stranger. It's your life. You tell me.
ImpatientZen 6y ago
First of all. Thanks. Especially for reading through my long OYS's and forming an opinion. Brevity is not my forte. I am here because I want to unplug. For me it goes beyond women, and has to do with breaking down my ego, becoming authentic, giving my gift, as Deida would say. I've had some inklings of this at times in my life. I want to find my way to that space mindfully and fully.
I have done a lot of shit, as you rightly mention. It has been useful. What it revealed as a stumbling block was/is my masculinity. It took a long time to get over the guilt of even being a man. Ok, it WILL take. I am just starting. But that's it. That's why I am here.
So my focus is to become an actual fucking man instead of playacting a caricature of one on occasion and feeling guilt, shame and shit about it. For my own sake, for my son, for the people around me.
Sadly, this is pretty much the only masculine environment that I have found that makes sense. I have been a member of a powerlifting gym, boxing, done all kinds of stuff. But this is different. Johnnys call-out on solitude and nature is pertinent, though.
​
As with Johnnys comment, it's both enlightening and frustrating for me how hard it is to even wrap my head around what the hell you are trying to tell me. For me this is what I am doing now. Trying to man the fuck up. But not as Rambo McFucktard being butt-hurt, ego-driven, validation-seeking and that bullshit. I will need the numerous wake-up calls I hope to get here to help me
steer clear ofnotice when I have done that and from just sitting and staring at the onion considering the angles.​
I was actually wondering when someone would call me on this just being another thing to adhere to, seek validation from etc. I have this risk quite present. I can't tell you that this isn't what is happening. Just that there are lessons here for me. Some of which I can actually already tell are working, at work as well as at home. I still fuck up constantly but that's for next weeks OYS.
I don't know how much sense this even makes. As I said. Sometimes it's fucking hard to get my mind around these things.
rotkohlblaukraut 6y ago
Started writing some shit but it got long. too long. I'll try this instead.
You create your own suffering, and you create your own prison. You lock your true self, the dreams and hopes and things you find fulfilling inside this prison you've created. Then you spend all your energy convincing yourself that the bars are real. The bars of your past, the bars of other people's judgement, the bars of your guilt and shame. All you have to do is stop.
ImpatientZen 6y ago
That's exactly what I needed to hear. Already today has been different. I wont bore you with the details (next weeks OYS will detail it), but will just say I fucking appreciate it.
"maybe creating yet another identity for yourself as an onion man would be cool, let you fit in, since that whole Lesbian FFFM dungeon master thing didn't work out."
That shit is resonating like hell right now.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Other flaired dudes and mods alike, I don't know who this dude is but he's smart... if he sticks around, keep an eye on him, he's a lot of good things to say. And not just because he's agreeing with me. His words are wise. More so than my own.
Persaeus 6y ago
I agree, that's some real shit from https://old.reddit.com/user/rotkohlblaukraut
i could write a book on those ridiculous bars.
see "The Cave" by Plato for the OG treatise
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Fuck all that.
Take a break. Go on a trip by yourself. Get away. Spend time on your own. Outside. By yourself.
Do literally just one masculine thing outside the masochistic quasi-safety of your house, your home, your family, your wife, and your life.
I don't think your solution is to dive deeper and get fucking stoney to be your safe person, lol.
Instead, gain a fresh perspective while experiencing - even if for a just a goddamn day - what it's like to be an actual man.
.... and, while you're out there in nature, at the top of a mountain, in the middle of an island, in a fucking treehouse in the woods... take a printout of your dumbass "wha, wha, wha my childhood was tough" love letter and either (1) shove it up your ass or (2) literally burn it... depending on what you've been doing prior... and use it to either cook the corpse of the animal you've hunted or cook the fucking steak you bought.
p.s. Goddamnit the 21-jump street fat fuck marshmallow man gun range gay dog festival video is gone.
ImpatientZen 6y ago
Thanks for that. Diving deeper has been my MO for a long fucking time.
It's pretty goddamn fucking revealing that taking a day like you describe is hard for me to even picture, much less arrange. Fuck. Me.
I need to get this done. I will procrastinate over it like a bitch first. I can produce some more waa-waa material to burn in the meantime.
friendofthedevil84 6y ago
OYS #3
Short update this week from the beach
~35y.o. 6'0" ~250 lbs ~30% BF (Fat Fuck) Wife ~35y.o. (together 15, Married 10), 4 kids under 10
Reading/SB
Steel’s Guide, NMMNG, MMSLP, WISNIFG, Rational Male, MAP, Book of Pook, WOTSM, SGM, Day Bang, Models, Fuccfiles, Multi Orgasmic Man
Physical
Lifts (Pre-Covid, pounds, demonstrated lifts): BP - 225, OHP - 150, Squat - 280, DL - 315
Lifted 4/4, Ran 7/7 (~20 miles).
Diet continues to go well - 60 hour fast, ~1200-1500 calories with ~200 grams of protein on other days (couple days closer to 2k at the beach). No scale at the beach but progress is there.
Ordered everything I need to setup homegym - rack will be a few weeks still, but can get back to deadlifting now.
Setup TRT lab test with Defy - will get labs drawn later this week when I get back.
Mental
2 weeks no drinking; keeps getting easier.
Frame / mental point of origin needs work. My emotional state is overly impacted by things like my wife being bitchy and I feel like I am still faking it here. Years of validation seeking mindset to be overcome here.
Marriage
Still mediocre. Need to keep working on myself and be ready to hit the eject button when the time is right.
Family
Beach has been a great change of scenery, getting to swim / play with the kids all day. Need to maintain that energy back home.
GOALS FOR THE WEEK
Continue no drinking, maintain diet progress, continue workouts.
Relationship - DGAF about my wife; initiate sex when I feel like it, no butthurt if rejected.
Mental - focus on maintaining frame.
awaken_ronin 6y ago
OYS #20
Me 45, wife 48 | separated | married 15y, together 20y | 1 son 15y, 1 daughter 12y
175cm | 74,5 Kg | 17% BF
5x5 lifts | SQ 60kg | BP 50kg | BR 40kg | DL 50kg| OHP 25kg |
Sidebar
NMMNG, MMSL, WISNIFG, 48 law of power
Retrospective
I am progressing with the cut, lost a lot of strength without the gym: taking my lift with ease: I know in 2 months I will reach again my peak.
Understood that I have another year of sidebar and improving myself, and the success of my life is only in my hand, so the mess I created.
Notes
Divorce happening now.
I am calm and even with my non-existent game I realized that with a shredded body, I can get away with it: I am interested only on getting laid, got some good progress with online flirting just because of pictures of my body.
Today exwife who doesn't work and left the house since two months phoned me sobbing she need money for food.
Strange thing when I confronted the past year exwife about cheating asking for the truth to move on ( and I was sobbing ) the cold reply was don't be so dramatic and just lies.
No empathy no remorse no emotions: learnt the lesson from the best.
BostonBrakeJob 6y ago
Sounds petty. And the opposite of this logic would be "year-ago wife was always there in my times of need, so I owe her"....which is obviously fucked.
Do what you want. Because you want to do it. It really is that simple. The second you start expecting anything, including gratitude, in return is the second you shove your own dick up your ass.
awaken_ronin 6y ago
yep, you spot my bitterness: thanks, I have still a lot to work on my anger.
elgath3 6y ago
OYS #11|10|9|8|7|6|5|4|3|2|1
27yo 5'5 \~141lbs (\~20%BF by photo method, 15 by navy method), single, no kids
Lifts (post-covid, LBs): DL 205x8, B 120x9, OHP 85x7, Front Squat 65x10, Leg press 335x10, Pull-ups BW+0x6
Read: NMMNG, MMSLP, TWOTSM, Poon, Pook, Atomic Habits, TRM, Predictably Irrational, 48LOP, Sapiens, Homo Deus, Fooled By Randomness, The Black Swan, The Bed of Procrustes, Antifragile
Currently reading: Skin in the game
Short-term goals from last time
Physical
Thank god the gyms are open again. Even more encouragingly, no elbow pain at any point in the week. I have identified my pain triggers: heavy pressing (especially at the point of extreme elbow bending) and higher-rep rep pull-ups.
Some foot pain while running. There's no need to push it - if my cardio ebbs and flows, as long as the general trend is in the right direction, I'm not concerned about pushing the envelope. My sleeping heart rate is down to 47 bpm, which feels great.
The lifting numbers are far from amazing. I don't have a ton to say about them. Taking it slow and working back up to old PRs.
Social and dating
Somehow, my social life is much more vibrant than it was pre-quarantine and while I was in a long term relationship.
I'm going on an impromptu couch-surfing road rip while my office is closed. Going to go hang out and reconnect with old friends. Will be doing my best to keep up with the lifting and side project work, but if I am set back 3-4 weeks, it's not the end of the world.
My dating mindset remains good. I am generally just inviting people along to things I would already do, and having fun with them. The result is organically that I lead the interactions, because we are doing things that I want to do. A by-product is a slight effort disparity, but as long as it's not perceived as trying too hard to impress, it should be OK. Probably need to monitor it and make sure I'm not actually trying hard to impress and deluding myself into thinking that I'm not.
Mission (find my edge and set the foundation for sustainably and happily living at it)
Major engineering setbacks on the side project. I put in about 10 hours but basically did not make any tangible progress. I had to do a lot of code and design refactoring, because I didn't have the foresight earlier on in the project to predict some of the problems I am running into now.
Doing my best to shake the feeling of failure and take it on the chin. I can recognize the architectural mistakes I made, and I am working to correct them. I learn best by making mistakes and feeling pain about it, so I am chalking the whole thing up to a learning experience.
General Mindset
Mindset has generally been good. My mood has been good, but in a different way than in the past. I am starting to feel.... secure, for lack of a better word. Like I have an unshakeable feeling that no matter what individual setbacks I face, I am going to be ok.
This could mean that I am not challenging myself enough to feel real risk. But I'm planning to adapt to my current level of activity and risk before ramping it up again. I will revisit at the end of Q2.
After my "success attained the wrong way (i.e. via beta game) is worse than failure/rejection" realization, I had a follow-up epiphany: if everyone I'm hooking up with (1 plate, 2 one-offs who might become plates) ghosted me today, I think I'd just get on with my life and continue having fun and moving towards my goals. The feeling of confidence --that even if I end up alone again for a while, I'll be perfectly happy-- is unbelievably freeing.
Goals for next time
UsefulWalk4 6y ago
Dude you are tiny! I would do zero running unless that's what you enjoy. Spend your time lifting and eating.
elgath3 6y ago
Running is indeed something I enjoy deeply. I'd rather run and eat more to make up for it.
I do acknowledge your point though; it is directly antithetical to my physique and strength goals. As of right now, I'm willing to pay that cost, but of course circumstances and feelings change over time, so I may stop doing it at some point.
UsefulWalk4 6y ago
That was the only correct answer. I wouldn't worry too much about "lean-bulking". If you are lifting heavy 3-5X weekly & running 15 miles a week the lean part should handle itself.
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
OYS#37
31yo 6'2" 188lbs ~17%BF, STBX 34yo 5'7" 200lbs, married 7yrs, kids 14(step) & 3
Reading
WISNIFG×2 TRM MMSLP MAP Pook×2 Poon WOTSM Day Bang UFYS 48LOP Atomic Habits×2 70% NMMNG×2 85% sidebar 95% (posts)
Book Queue
SGM WOTSM WISNIFG
Physical
All in lbs, 5×5: SQ 190 DL 225 BP 135 BR 145 OHP 95
All of these numbers represent a significant drop, especially in SQ and DL, but I've only lifted twice since the gym opened last Wednesday. These numbers are going to go up and pass my previous PRs, and I'll be pushing hard for perfect form in the meantime. With my business trip I won't be able to lift again until this next weekend due to travel quarantine requirements, but that may be for the best... my legs are pretty shot from the squatting. I'll do my BWF routine and go for the social event with the 4 mile run group that is on this island on Thursday, should be a good way to loosen up all the muscle fibers and lingering soreness.
Mental
I allowed avoidance behaviors and thought patterns to impede my mental progress this last week. My business trip couldn't be more opportune, I have nothing but time in the evenings and nothing better to do with it than introspect. I will force my way through this bullshit and keep building my better self.
Family
I had a consult and scheduled an appointment for a vasectomy... I've decided I'm done having children, for a number of reasons. I'm good with what I've got. If for some reason I change my mind in the future (I won't), there are millions in need of fostering and adoption to choose from.
Marriage
I finally figured out how I'm going to accurately do STBX's paperwork without having access to her recent pay info. I have her gross, net, etc from our 2019 tax return. I'm sure she's making less now than she was then, but If she wants to fix it, she can get off her lazy ass and do it herself.
Shit I'm doing fine on just for me to look back at:
Financial
Selling baby things and other stuff that hasn't been touched in over a year. I asked STBX if she wanted to keep any of it, she wanted to but doesn't have the space to store it, so its going.
Professional
Got the follow on temporary management assignment. Training for it this week on another island, but maneuvered to then do the assignment from home instead of being stuck on the other island away from my kids.
Social
I'll be breaking a plate when I get back from my trip, and dropping the last of my pipeline. I'll be left with Katie and Steph, and the knowledge that I could invest time and make more if I wanted to if I also decide to drop one or both of them or they break themselves. I am choosing to focus fully on myself, and continuing to weed out my validation behaviors through self observation. Things like texting from a need for attention instead of only for logistics or to generate sexual tension and feelz.
Saw a couple bros in the gym, greeted after the long hiatus and talked a little to catch up, but didn't let it distract from my reason for being there.
red-sfpplus 6y ago
You know how slow Lava moves?
You fucking move slower.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
OYS 45
Age 64 Ht 5'11" Wt 169 Wife 66 Married 43 Together 46
Reading TRM (v3), Ribbonfarm (reread after watching The Office)
Physical
Gyms were supposed to open up to 50% this week, but still waiting on a date for opening mine. If I ever get to a squat cage again I'm going to be lucky to do an empty bar.
Work / Mindset
Watched an episode of The Office. Painful, but accurate. I can't handle more than one, though.
Things are a bit better in my real life office. I had a conversation with the queen bee and was able to get her to be a little less restrictive. Of course I don't take anything she says at face value. But for the moment better the good than something worse.
A Surprising Relationship Query, Progress Review
I got a direct question on my OYS about my sexual relationship - that it seemed (to the questioner) to have gotten much better much faster than the "one month per year of beta" rule (which would be \~ 4 years). And what did I think was the most effective change that resulted in my wife's current insatiability? After my initial shock at someone thinking I had my act together at all, or that I had any "answers" other than lift, sidebar, etc, I thought I would take the question seriously and review my "progress" and see what comes out.
Spoiler: I have no "cheat code" that will get you spontaneous BJs. I'll make some suggestions here and there, but FWIW the TL;DR would be: don't read this as a checklist, a spreadsheet or worse, an input/output wiring diagram. It has been a long road to get this far with lots of pain, diversions, anger, waste, frustration and sorrow. Every path is organic, fractal, iterative, incremental and non-linearly dynamic. Most importantly don't look at me as a role model - I'm light years from "success". Everything you read on the sidebar applies, as well as all the warnings, caveats, curb stomps, and advice you see from the Endorsed and Approved - everything. Lift, sidebar, STFU - rinse and repeat. The one thing I would add would be to consider all of that as setting up a system of systems (swapping your old out for new) rather than trying to "reach goals".
My baseline
Although my OYS is only a year on, I had begun reading RP/MRP material a couple years before that. But way back 15 years ago was the bottom - not just dead bedroom, but dead house. She would dodge to the side to avoid touching me in the hallway. About 10 years ago, I decided to stop being a fat fuck. I had tried all kinds of diets, calorie counting etc, and had best success with no/low carb. All the same I had ballooned up to \~ 250lb.
I've mentioned before a practice called "mindful eating". It is simply this: Slow the fuck down when you eat. Better, slow down and enjoy your food. Taste every bite. Identify the spices, the textures, etc. This give your stomach time to generate the signals that tell your brain you are "full". So you end up eating less and not feeling hungry. No need to calorie count or portion size. It just happens naturally. Over the next year or so I lost \~ 85lb. I've kept it off for 10 years. I recommend this practice as it makes life more enjoyable in general. It is also an example of why installing a system is better than trying to "set a goal" ("lose 80lb").
About 8 years or so ago I started TRT (advice from my older brother). Back then I had to go to a specialist - my regular obamacare doc kept whining about my T levels being "too high" for "someone my age". If you are over 50 you should get your levels checked. (I guess that is a "checklist" item)
About 6 years ago I became a full time (Sunday - Friday) travelling consultant. I only saw her on weekends. This altered the dynamics of our interactions. Mostly for the worse. I was back on suicide watch and had a bad reaction to Xanax.
About three years ago I started dabbling (not even LARPing) RP material. Seeing "Lift" over an over I got into watching videos from Jeff Cavaliere and trying to incorporate his ideas to improve my routines. Although I have been "weightlifting" since the 80's the last 15 years I've been in a "slow the decline" mentality. Inspired by Jeff I bought his program for hypertrophy in January of 2018. After six months I had made major improvements. I got new clothes that showed off the improvements. Getting a "pro" program is another system-level change. If you can afford it ($100) I recommend it - it was very motivational for me. With a "better body" I was more confident to try acting the SGM. (I had not yet internalized it)
Somewhen around here sex started getting better, but it was still on "my demand". I had learned to stop the beta "foot massage for sex" trade, "flowers for sex", etc. But I was really struggling mentally (see my early OYS). [Note: starting your OYS is a must-do system of systems install. If you can't bring yourself to make this commitment then don't bother trying anything else]
I had no frame, no OI, no abundance (still don't), gave too many fucks, wanted "justice", whined with beta butthurt blowups, etc. I was given advice [based on my OYS - another reason to OYS] that helped at two levels. Exercises in PON helped (continue to help) deal with the internal anger, self-hate, "need for justice", rehashing the past, etc. TWOTSM and Models led me to polarity, which worked at the external action level. This in turn mentally operationalized SGM. I got better in bed. I went thru the wife-orgasm-as-pinball-score phase. "You only want me for sex", to which I replied: yes I only want you for sex.
In simple terms I stopped manifesting being a beta bitch. I stopped worrying about whether she would "like" this or that. Whether she would "reject" or I'd have to deal with "consequences". Whether she's faking it or just enduring it to stop my whining. I stopped "asking". I just did. Push, push, push. Verbally, physically, continually, randomly. I stopped caring if she orgasmed or not. Surprisingly, she started demanding it. Like a weekly booster shot.
Then the Covid WFH lockdown hit. Being together every night instead of just a couple times a week. Now I pushed polarity around the clock (well, when I wasn't in zoom meetings). I've gotten so I just do it without thinking about needing to do it. I expected sex to slack off, to maybe a couple times a week. Instead it ramped up. Every night. Some nights she just wants to give a BJ. This past week a nooner. Note: it has been months since I made any bitchy peep about the years when she claimed to be "frigid". No whining "what about all the years you said you had no sex drive?" Perhaps most importantly, no comparing what she did with other guys to what she's doing with me. What rule is at the foundation of this? That's right kids, STFU.
I never tried dread. She never saw a waitress "hit on me". I did mention a complement I got here or there. The hotel clerk who gave me a complementary bottle of wine, etc. But I never considered that trying to establish "dread" because as an alpha widow she's un-dreadable. And frankly at this point I don't care if she's dreaded or not. Even if I had a goal that wouldn't be it.
DrBeaufort 6y ago
What is PON? I spent some time searching, looked through the sidebar here and TRP, and couldn't find anything with an acronym like that.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
Sorry, "Power of Now" by Tollé. The reframing of pain, learning to step out of it, getting out of ego, control of self-hate, etc. You'll see echoes of the stoics etc but in a different light. I highlighted large sections. If you're angry, eager for "justice", in pain, etc I highly recommend the exercises
DrBeaufort 6y ago
Thanks, I will check it out. This is exactly the sort of thing I need right now.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
Bottom line
Is it "one month per year"? Faster? Do I have a shortcut? What's the secret to turning a self-described broken down old lady into a 19 year old nymphomaniac? Its been 15 years since my dead bedroom. Not exactly instant success. From a RP/MRP point of view, it's taken two years to get this far. I have major, significant gaps still to cover, in particular Outcome Independence and Abundance Mindset. I don't have plates or experience with strange. I still cling to STFU, PON, meditation, etc to deal with beta cuck demons that lurk waiting to pounce, triggered by the stupidest triviality. I'm prone to complacency and relapse. I still don't consider that I have frame. Etc. Etc.
Here's a list of things I did that I said to not turn into a checklist:
There isn't anything here you haven't heard before, from people much smarter than me. The only "shortcut" was that progress only really began after I started OYS. It was from that feedback that I gained the most - recommendations for readings, practices, thinking and attitude adjustments. So if you are reading this and not OYS-ing, you're taking a long road that will never get you there.
part_wolf 6y ago
For our third wedding anniversary, my wife and I stayed at a little bed and breakfast in a quaint little town in the country.
The owner, Klaus, was an ex-patriot German man in his 80s. Since my wife is half German and speaks the language, he took a liking to us and we talked with him quite a bit. Klaus told us all about his first marriage - which lasted for just over five decades - and everything he did wrong as a husband. After his wife died, Klaus remarried and made sure he corrected all of his mistakes from the first marriage.
When I asked him if he had any marriage advice for me, he grinned at me and said, “the first forty-eight years are the hardest.”
I’ve never laughed so hard in my life.
Thanks for showing us younger guys exactly what’s possible when you do the work.
rotkohlblaukraut 6y ago
This is a terrific restrospective. As a 50+ guy, reading the OYS of a 64-year old sometimes hits closer to home than those of the 27 year olds. Over the last few months I've had the impression that you were just fumbling along, having put a decent amount of Flex Seal on your Titanic and were now happily sanding the deck chairs, but it's cool to see how slow continual progress turns into a sea change given enough time. Nice work.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
Your assessment is not far from the truth. I'll continue to fumble in the challenges ahead. As per HoA, abundance mindset is an existential change I've already failed at even within the last year. Looking back and realizing I have made progress helps immensely.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Good work old man.
Deathmetal_deadlifts 6y ago
What is PON?
DirtyNuke 6y ago
"Power of Now" by Tolle
PillUpAss 6y ago
This would work well as a 2 year update post.
SteelSharpensSteel 6y ago
Solid progress. Flair updated.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Deserved.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Solid. Serious question, what prevented you from just walking away at 60+ years old and banging harder, younger bodies without all the baggage of this woman in your twilight years?
I have my reasons I haven't, I'm interested in yours.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
At the rational level, realizing I have to fix myself first or I'll just be a beta cuck with someone new. I made the commitment to the timeline. I know how messed up I am. If/when I get abundance I may reconsider but acquisition of that (banging anyone other than wife) is a huge growth opportunity - something I have no experience with. But I also know I have to deal with deep insecurities, fear of change and simple cowardice. I may still walk away but it will be as a better man than I am now, not in a hissy butthurt rage-quit.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Yes, understood. Using her as a tool for your own self awareness is a good path IMO. I'd be interested more on your take if you can envision yourself a year from now?
My reasons for why I chose to continue on this journey with my wife were the same as yours at this point in your journey. I'm wondering if you are able to see, at the very least, why you would continue on with her past these hurdles. I ask because you've mentioned TWOTSM often.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
It's hard from this side to imagine my mental state "after I've achieved abundance and OI". Currently all my reasons to leave are beta cuck based. Leaving because I've honestly found a better life on account of being a better man is like accepting life exists on other planets. I will always keep open the option to leave because although it happened years ago she chose and committed to a life with someone else - no regrets, no remorse - no concerns about family, and certainly none about me. It's the biggest of the epic shit tests. TWOTSM taught the ocean dynamic as a challenge. Staying and enduring that challenge after abundance? I think my nascent polarity could say yes. Really odd to talk it out and see myself thinking that. That is, staying for the challenge rather than leftover oneitis and fear. I've still got too much of the latter right now.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Fair. An exercise you may go through would be to write down every way you envision your life in that state to make it less "alien". It may seem far fetched now, kind of like life existing on other planets, but what if I told you that I too didn't believe there was life on other planets until I saw it with my own eyes? There is another life out there that you aren't aware of - but you can create it.
What do you want, Neo?
I will also take the time to quote Deida in this context. I think you have a choice coming up:
TWOTSM: Chapter 40
So, what do you want, old man?
"Get busy living or get busy dying."
DirtyNuke 6y ago
This is an exercise I must spend time on in preparation and repeated execution. This is the section of TWOTSM that I meant. Then the exercise again. I have a lot of work to do.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Not work, decisions.
Work comes after.
Try that mental model out for a change.
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
Nice job bro. Id be interested from your report above to hear your thoughts on progress through overt leading ("I want you to X"), covertly leading (Reward good, punish/ignore bad), and her changing herself based on you simply changing yourself as you listed above.
so_woke_da_wookie 6y ago
Very interested in the response to this.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
Mostly her (surprising) response to my change. Second would be reward good (compliments and praise). But overt is there too at the sub tactical SGM level. That's (e.g. "dirty talk") something she explicitly pushed back on, and something I made a point to praise if she did anything remotely near. I mentally raised expectations, made sexuality the de facto std - I got that mindset from polarity (way beyond "gaming"). I guess the biggest was to stop thinking of "leading" at all. Not a very clear answer, but not a lot of command and control.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
Dude, every time I see your OYS I think "bless him for being 64 and still working his ass off." I am 50 and hope to be still at this if I reach 64. It's never too late, I guess, to start sprinting to that finish line
DirtyNuke 6y ago
Every post I see from one of you kids I think, I wish I'd known about this when I was 50, or 40, or 30 . . . You've got plenty of time to not make all my mistakes.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
I go back and forth between "i wish I found this 25 years ago" and "I am at least glad I found this now as opposed to ten years from now"
DirtyNuke 6y ago
One big thing PON (Power of Now) exercises did for me was STOP trying to replay the past using today's knowledge. Adding them getting them to be defaults has been hugely liberating
PillUpAss 6y ago
This is the biggest change I’ve noticed in your recent OYS’s - zero regret or butt hurt from the past shown or dwelled on. Great to see my man!
I’m 40 and have always liked how you never let up because of age. It motivated me at times to go even harder.
DirtyNuke 6y ago
Oh, it's still there. It's getting to be more a "scar" than an open wound, tho. Sometimes I find myself wondering where my "righteous anger" went.
UsefulWalk4 6y ago
OYS #20:
Stats: Age 42, Wife 40. Married 15 years, kids 6’2”, 183 lbs. 14% Navy Method
Lifts:
Gym opens Monday.Can’t wait.Gym postponed opening for now. I need to find another place to go ASAP.Diet: Still staying pretty clean. Overeating based on lack of squatting actual fucking weight.
Reading: Finishing WISNIFG re-read. Next up post histories for /u/strategos_autokrator, /u/sh0ckley/, u/resolutions316/ started in on these, but it’s difficult to navigate to the old stuff first.
Frame: Mostly solid. Still need to focus on developing a “positive frame” as opposed to a “not hers or theirs” frame
Mission: Eat, Lift, and be Happy; get MY shit done. Good to be back out at the baseball field. Also planning a vacation. Need to find time for hobbies and focus more on the “fun”. I’m rudderless and reactionary at times, I need to do a better job of proactively working my mission and goals.
Back Problems: More of the same. Last entry on this subject.
Angry and depressed: Little better this week.
Sex: Zero.
Relationship: Distant.
Initiation: Missed here, shark week. 7/8 weeks.
Validation: Spent the week trying to be mindful of situations where I seek validation. I will work toward killing this behavior and need, but my primary goal for now is being aware when this mindset appears.
Abundance: Made an effort to demonstrate abundance IRL. Probably seeking validation as much as proving abundance.
Covert Contracts: I thought I had stamped out my Beta Covert contracts, but u/HornsOfApathy called me out (correctly so).
This made me aware of an entirely new set of covert contracts I’ve created as part of my MRP progress. Thus far, I haven’t taken the “be Happy” part of my mission all that seriously. Sounds good, but words are useless. I’m not even sure I remember how to “be happy”. I’ve trapped myself into a set of rules, routines, relationships and dependencies that doesn’t even allow myself time to consider what it is that makes me happy. I’ve approached MRP like a faggot checking boxes on a list hoping eventually one of them will make my wife nicer and drop her pants more. Sort of like a hamster pulling levers and releasing the cheese, only I’m not getting any cheese.
The biggest covert contract of all: MRP improvement for sex. This covert contract has basically been my mission up to this point. I am aware of this shortcoming. I’m working toward removing this limitation, but I still have much progress to make. I’m way too worried about sex and this is significantly limiting my progress. I’m finding it impossible to implement the advice to “stop worrying about sex”. If only it was that easy.
Mental point of Origin: u/man_in_the_world suggested that becoming my own mental point of origin is the key to stop being a dancing monkey. My current mental point of origin has been molded by the world and my wife and my kids to the point that I’m not even aware when I’ve strayed from my natural point of view.
Action plan: Lift, Sidebar, STFU, identify validation seeking, identify and avoid covert contracts. Work toward developing a positive vision for a frame. Be fun, have fun.
Faggots just want to have fun!!!
Octellius 6y ago
I have had lower back issues for most of my life and kept on going to a Dr about them. No, no spinal problems they would all say. It;s all muscular. At which point I breathed a sigh of relief and did nothing. Until I could simply not DL any more as it scared the crap out of me. I felt like a twig under load about to snap at any moment.
Then I met some random dude in the gym sitting on a small ball. He was heavy with muscle but every day there he was siting on the ball before hitting the prowler. So, I asked him about it, did some googling found the Agile8, from where I built a routine of my own which is somewhat similar . In 4 months my DL 1RM is now about 40% higher than the plateau i was held at. Squats also no longer feel like I'm flirting with danger.
Not sure if it'll help, but wanted to share it as it works so well for me and only costs me about 10 minutes per day.
UsefulWalk4 6y ago
Your description sounds exactly like mine. I've seen several Doctors and few physical therapist without much luck. I'll give the Agile 8 routine a try. Interestingly I'm currently seeing a Chiro/PT and he's got me doing 4 of the 8. It's been helping a little. I'll roll the full routine pre-workout and see how it goes. I've pretty well come to the conclusion that tight muscles and inflexibility are the root of the problem. Probably means this will help. Thanks for the tip!
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Go somewhere you normally wouldn't go and go by yourself and spend time there on your own:
Do one fucking new, unique, different, and preferably enervating thing as you go to one new, unique, and different place.
Thinking about it, writing about it, ruminating on it, and mulling it over is pathetic.
Life is for living not for planning.
UsefulWalk4 6y ago
True enough. I once had an issue with insomnia. The Doc delivered a great line to me. Sleeping shouldn't be difficult, it is the most natural thing in the world, much like breathing it should happen all on it's own. Don't overthink it. Seems, I've developed a similar block for just enjoying myself on my own terms. Pathetic, I know.
Fortunately for me my OYS reads much worse than the sum of my real life as it is basically me putting together a MAP to improve my weakest points.
I appreciate the advice to get outside by myself. Probably a really solid step toward getting my dysfunctional brain rewired and reprogramming myself. Worst case, I enjoy being alone.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
That's a beautiful thing.
opseccret 6y ago
OYS#30
June 9
Me - 43 years old, 5 foot 7, 188.8 lbs 12% navy method
Her 48 together 13 years, married 7, one child age 6
Physical
No workouts last week, at least as I would describe it. As of tomorrow, I will be clear to begin workouts, though I wouldn’t say I am 100% recovered from my surgery. Went for a walk with a weight vest on this morning, and there was the odd little movement that wasn’t quite right. My intention is to resume my 500 rep/day kettlebell plus assistance movements tomorrow, and play it by ear.
Diet has been good overall, roughly 1g/lb protein, generally limited carbs, and try for at least a few cups of veggies, if not more.
Mental
Goals for last week were
B. 2nd mission is to get family more physically active. Neither my kid nor my wife gets enough exercise. My wife isn’t overweight by much, but is flabby, which is not a turn on at all. I’m going to start this week by getting at least my kid out for a bike ride or walk in the evenings. If my wife wants to join, great. If not, that’s fine too. After some renovations and family visits are complete in the next 3-4 weeks, I am going to make plans for some day trips out to the mountains at least once every couple weeks to go hiking.
Other than that, had passed a few shit tests early on last week, with some comfort tests later on that I am not entirely sure how I did. Generally of the “Aren’t you going to come hang out with us/me?” variety. I usually responded, “in a minute (or 30 minutes, when I am finished XYZ)”.
Didn’t initiate last week, which puts it to two weeks now. I wasn’t really interested for the last two weeks partly due to discomfort from the surgery, but also just not wanting to. I need to get over that now, as its a bad habit to get into, regardless of how I feel. Tests for T levels will be scheduled soon, but hard to say when exactly. I've given up on trying regular docs, and the specialized clinics have not yet been given the go ahead to reopen yet.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
5'7' 188 and only 12% on Navy Method? You must be built like a fucking tank
opseccret 6y ago
I have heard that or something similar before, but I have been pretty muscular my whole life. Definitely got more muscular when I started paying attention to getting enough protein.
Rogue68486 6y ago
OYS 21
Stats - 48 years old. 6'3" 204 lbs. 18% bf (pictures). Wife 49. Married 10 years with 3 kids 9, 8 and 6.
Physical / Health - Current 5X5 workout: Deadlift 130, Squat 120, Bench 120, Overhead Press 80 and Bent Over Row 115. Knee has been jacked. I ordered a power cage and got it yesterday, which will let me do squats and bench as I had a folding weight bench with no arms prior.
Books – I have read and/or listened to the following books.
Mission - I will give my kids the best role model and chance at success in life. I will do work I enjoy that builds financial freedom.
Career – I have been asked to help another team at my organization whose boss is a rabid micromanager. She went to our CEO and tried to get him to have me report to her. My boss blocked it although I am asked to help her improve the organization. I am doing my best to not play into the micromanaging, and push back on some of the bullsh*t. This has been a challenge for me in the past, dealing with bully leaders and I need to stay professional and do my best. I will re-read WISNIFG as some of the techniques will help dealing with the manipulation attempts.
My wife is half Ethiopian (was adopted) so the protests and police issues hit close to home. Our sons will be tall biracial men, so we worry about the realities of being black in America. We have discussed moving to Canada and I am exploring what it would take to land a job like mine in Toronto. I’m curious if people in Canada have the same issues related to systemized racism in the police force among other areas of life.
Finances – I have built up some savings which will help. We are putting our house we rent in another state up for sale in the 2nd week of July. We’ll also drive back there to visit family. If we can sell it in a reasonable amount of time, we should have a solid emergency fund up and money to buy another house if we choose.
Wife Relationship - We are doing our best through the pandemic and now protests to be a good team. We spend some time with our neighbors who are good people, although most of the time is spent at home. This week is shark week. I initiated last week and had duty sex. She does not want to be touched barely at all – which means I have to continue to work on being attractive. I am working on maintaining frame despite any moods she has which I think has improved the relationship. We watch a movie on Saturday nights after putting the kids to bed. I will work on trying to inject fun into the relationship. We are kind of on auto pilot of taking care of the kids, working from home and resting.
Game - From what I remember the Mystery method has the 3 phases. The first phase Attraction starts with opener, then female to male attraction. Using stories and attraction switches. Congruence. Teasing. Push pull etc. I suck at it. I’m wondering how this works within a long-term relationship. I work to tease her at times although in general I think I’m pretty vanilla. I wonder if there’s a good resource on gaming your wife. I’ve read MMSLP and don’t know if any of the side bar books do a good job at this. What am I missing?
Social - Been hanging out with the neighbors, they are 2 younger guys that live with their wives/girlfriends and kids. I called a couple of friends this past week to connect on how things are going in relation to the protests and pandemic. This is a huge opportunity for me as I have not built friendships since moving to this new city last year.
Outcome Independence - I would be kidding myself if I said I am making progress here. I need to maintain my job so I am playing the game. Or rather wrestling with how to play the game from a more enlightened or wise place.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
You have had 21 OYS and so I presume you have been working out longer than that? Why are your lifts so bad? And wtf does "pictures" mean for BF? If it's "visual" test thats nonsense. At least try http://www.strongur.io/body_fat_calculator/
Rogue68486 6y ago
Yes ive been working out for a year - ive gained 24 lbs of weight and some is muscle. I've only gone with 5x5 for a few weeks. I was doing 4x10 and not seeing gains. Without the power rack i can only squat what i can overhead press on and off. Without a bench with arms i can only bench what i can sit down with and get back up with.
Power cage and 5x5 should really help. My lifts suck and im posting them because thats where i'm at working out from home. My gym lifts were more but its not what im working with now.
Short answer - ive not stuck hard to 5x5 over the past year and put in the work.
The calculator had me at 20.1% bf
Bigfootinmouth 6y ago
OYS #8
Stats: age mid 30, married to wife (mid 30), 3 kids (2, 5,7). Height 5,9". Weight 76 kg (167 lbs.) Strong Lift 5x5, B 57,5kg +2,5, OHP 47,5kg +2,5, DL 107,5 kg +7,5 SQ 95 kg +5, Row 57,5 kg +2,5.
Reading: - TWOSM
Missed last weeks OYS.
Physical/training/Diet
Status is that I have plateaued a bit but look fairly good. I am now normal fit but I am not strong.The two weeks that passed I have ramping up a bit in the gym which resulted in descent gains. This week I will switch to front squat a couple of times. Week goals:
Mental/Relationship:
Last OYS I was thinking about my own motivation both in regards to failing motivation and tiredness and using wife as a thermometer for success. Sure its not irrelevant but its counter to abundance mentality and own frame. If I am looking for signs of my actions leading her, I am still using her actions as a end goal of my actions. Sure, getting a better sex life is one of my goals for life, to experience life at its fullest etc. But who says she is the one I am going to fuck? But switching one thermometer for another is pointless and is the reason I need to develop a clearer image of what I want for my future self. The last month have shown me:
Week tasks:
Goals:
These are still work in progress but I am trying to move my goals to my inner vision of my future self and not focus on outcomes and reactions from others.
Octellius 6y ago
I did this. It caused more problems than it solved. When I workout in the gym, I like charts, stats, back data. Immediate reinforcing feedback. I CAN DO THIS NEW whatever. Problem with the wife is that at best she will be a lagging indicator. Lagging by how much? Well how long exactly does the 1000 foot rope take to snap tight? There is no number.
The only way I found around this problem is to trust the process, and as I recently found, you enjoy the process for what it is as your whole plan (MAP or whatever) will give you feedback. It just won't be the instant gratification we're all used to.
I personally think that the relationship you want is not 'built' as such, but is incidentally occurant due to the way you live life. Accepting this helped me banish the covert contracts I was carrying. Here was me before: "I will only do X if you give me Y. But, since I KNOW you'll rip me off and won't pay me my dues, screw you, you get nothing.".
My new strategy is more like running a marathon just because I like running. I'm not running to win, or running to beat someone else or achieve X level of fitness. I just do it because it's what I want to do. A few months of lockup later and everything is working better than it was by a lot. The trick for me was putting in all the hard work without needing to be rewarded for it, and somehow that made all the difference. Actually, even thinking it was hard work had to be turned o it's head. Everything I do for my MRP plan has no need outside my desire to do it. So, my personal satisfaction is the only reward I get or need. This is probably the reason things are going well for me now. I'm not grinding, I've turn the 'task' in to my enjoyment. In the end, if you imagine what you will\want to be like down the track, it seems pretty congruent with the future self.
Bigfootinmouth 6y ago
I am in agreement here. One need to transform from direct outcome motivation to process motivation. Not to say that the behavior of wife isn't of interest but it's not THE guage of progress. It might be a laggy gauge for the marriage though
Vegasman20002 6y ago
Your goals? Sounds like pipe dreams to me. What you need actionable things to do. How about coming up with some action items on each of those and put them down on paper? "Be in a financial place of freedom" isn't a goal. "Next week I will put 2% of my salary in the stock market" is a goal. Maybe you are doing these things maybe not, but damned if we know.
Bigfootinmouth 6y ago
Get what you are saying. The long term goals need to be tangible. Next OYS I will try a new format out. Perhaps long term goals with week/monthly goals. I struggle with this alot since my goals so far has been 100% validational..
Deathmetal_deadlifts 6y ago
OYS #37
Stats: 40 yo, height 186 cm, weight 85 kg, bodyfat 15.5% navy method, wife 39 yo, living together for 13 years, married for 8. Kids are 3 (girl) and 6 (boy).
Lifting stats (heaviest weight at the last workout): BP 85x8, SQ 90x6, DL 120x5.
Readings:
Sidebar books read: MMSLP, NMMNGx2, WISNIFG, RM, TWOTSM, MAP, Saving a low sex marriage, Bigger Leaner Stronger, Pook, SGM
Books read that are not on the sidebar: Bigger Leaner Stronger, Leangains, Kettlebell Simple and Sinister, The Quick and the Dead, Fuccfiles
Now reading: Day Bang
Reading queue: 48LOP
Shit to own
Relationship: here’s a recent exercise in holding frame from yesterday. In my reality, I was putting myself first and doing a quick round of breathing exercises before dinner. In my wife’s reality, I was being an asshole and letting the kids run around with no control while she cooks dinner. I refused to argue and fall into her frame, which resulted in a bunch of shit tests culminating with ‘I want to go out for a while’ after I put the kids to sleep. So she went out, then came back and had smoke coming out of her ears till midnight or maybe later, I don’t know because I went to sleep. She has a legitimate issue with being overloaded with house work, which is entirely due to her choice to cook a different set of meals every fucking day. I will help her out eventually but will not sacrifice my gym time, or social life when it comes back. Note to self: play the nice card, provide comfort but don’t apologize or placate.
Work: As I said last week, I like the drama and the sense of urgency. I am busy every day discussing deals with the salespeople and coming up with ways to solve the client’s problems and I love this. It’s a crisis situation and everyone is angry and overworked and I am being a complete idiot coming to work smiling and laughing. I have a plan to put a couple of managers on a ‘performance improvement plan’ and fire them in the fall if needed. Things are not looking good for the business overall, what with the crisis and such, but I am getting more and more energized. I may die figuratively speaking, but I will die in battle.
Personal finance: I’ve chosen which car to buy and will probably close the deal next week. In the meantime, I’m still looking at other cars to avoid oneitis and to prevent the seller to up the price. This is the first time I’m buying a car in cash without using debt. Also, the son is now enrolled in the public school. Cue sigh or relief. No more tuition fees in my nightmares.
Diet: fail, fail, fail. I made progress then we invited friends for lunch.
Goals for end of June:
• Get back to 15% BF or below
• start Day Bang and try out stuff on the wife
• re-start the weekly business trips and social life
• start the new wardrobe (before the lockdown I went for a consultation and already have my style guide in terms of fit and colors, now is just time to execute) but stay within budget. No buying on credit card.
Mission/ long-term stuff
• Stop giving a fuck what others think, switch to internal validation
• Become a high energy charismatic guy. Prioritize my career and be successful in my current role, which is essentially running a business within the company
• Help my kids grow confident and strong, so that they make the big life decisions driven by ambition as opposed to driven by fear
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
How about instead of helping her, you do what a man would and Lead Her to what you want her to do? And if your kids are running around "out of control" while you ignore them to "focus on your breathing" you may want to create some actual boundaries about what activities are acceptable for them to be doing while inside the house. And then you (or even your wife!) Can just remind them once or they know what the consequence will be.
You know, like a man who Owns His Shit might do in your situation instead of making ego excuses about "putting himself first"
Deathmetal_deadlifts 6y ago
Yes that's correct.
Memories_Of_Ice 6y ago
OYS #4
35 yr old, 6'0, 170, 18% BF. Married 3, together 8, 3 kids (7 mo, 3 yr, 11 yr).
Lifts can't be quantified yet since I'm in a lockdown state and haven't lifted before the whole quarantine thing started, BUT I did initiate a conversation with a gym very close to my house regarding rates. Will seal the deal this week and start lifting actual weights, I think (gyms have to be at X capacity and still aren't open but will this week - not sure how this will all play out).
Read NMMNG, Pook, just finished MMSLP this last week. 20% through WISNIFG. Rational Male teed up after I finish WISNIFG this week.
Frame
This is my biggest issue besides lack of a muscular frame, so I will continue to make it a focus. If I was a 1/10 last week, I'm a 2/10 now. Improvement! I am increasingly aware of my shitty frame, and am working more on STFU. I have been turned down for sex the past two nights, but did get a BJ the night before. The past two nights I have not pouted or pressured or done anything other than move on with my life as if I weren't denied. In the past I would be short or distant with my wife the next morning, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking some negative thoughts about it, but I'm trying really hard to NOT VOCALIZE IT, nor show it through body language or anything.
This morning she said she felt her period coming on, and I jokingly said something to the effect of great, there are other ways you can take care of me tonight then (BJs, anal has been off the table for years - I'd like it back on the menu, it's a goal). She sort of sighed and agreed, but said she wishes I didn't want sex every day now. That hurts since I know enough from reading here that women have strong hypergamous sex drives, and that the problem is me and not being attractive enough, but I brushed it off and haven't texted her like a bitch about it like I would have in the past. I'm glad to have this channel to vent through.
Was also glad to get feedback from Barracuda on last week's OYS, where I learned that I don't necessarily need to be willing to cheat on my wife, but I need to increase my attractiveness and run game on women in general to help my chances. I am not yet attractive enough to tell her that I'll get sex elsewhere if she won't provide it, but I have told her my needs (after reading NMMNG) but she hasn't really obliged fully yet. I have a long way to go. I did make sure to have a short conversation with my hot neighbor while me and my wife and kids were outside working on the yard last weekend, nothing too flirty but we made each other laugh and had fun. My wife didn't say a word about it, which was weird to me. When my phone buzzes in the evening she'll say things to me like 'is that your girlfriend texting?', to which I reply 'which one?'. Her frame is still wide and giant so I don't think I'm out of it yet, but am working on it. She has given me shit tests too about this new dining set we bought, jokingly saying that her chair 'is the head of the table', to which I cockily responded that anywhere I sit is the head of the table (I also sit at the actual head of the table and always have, don't worry).
Previous goals:
Don't get mad if/when (let's be real, it's when) my wife turns me down for sex. Don't let it get to me, don't clam up, don't pout. Think about all the pussy there is to get once i get jacked. Success so far
Talk to my work mentor about how to improve and grow. It's been a while since I picked his brain. Success - scheduled for tomorrow
Start dressing better around the house to increase dread - a new pair of jeans will do me wonders. Success - got a new pair of jeans and shorts. I'm someone who likes to wear hoodies a lot, probably to hide my chicken arms, so I need to both move past that, and get arms that are worth showing off. I'm lean enough there that I have been able to see the slightest increases.
Finish second week of Coursera SQL class. Fail
New goals
Continue to not be a bitch about being turned down for sex - once I get that down, and have true OI when initiating sex, and adopt more of the abundance mindset for sex, this should be second nature. I am a long ways away though, I'm not willing to say I'm even close to 'there' yet, hence why it's a goal;
Finish WISNIFG;
Make a new meal/recipe for dinner. I've been the cook since my wife got a new job and switched shifts, trying to run the house and everything in it, have her be along for the ride. Doing easy things like chili and corn bread, hot dogs and mac & cheese for the kids, but would like more tools in the tool belt so to speak;
Continue to get shit done around the house. I have a long list of to-do's (mine not hers) that need doing, and I will continue to do them on the weekends. I make sure I spend time with the kids and give her a break if she needs, but I have made it clear to her that my priorities are to get this stuff done since I had an unproductive winter.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
OYS #4 and this reads like you went to the sidebar, determined what "success" is, and wrote a story about it. I hope it's legit. Few men catch on that quickly. Also keep up the DNGAF on rejection.
Memories_Of_Ice 6y ago
It is legit but i do not feel successful yet, not by a mile. My problem is I'm an underachiever, and I have tended to take the path of least resistance in my life, so I need to sustain this even and especially when it's difficult.
That's part of why I laser focused this OYS on frame again, because the pussy boy who gets bent out of shape from not getting sex is still right there waiting to come out. And that's just one small part of frame but it's the weakest spot of my overall very weak frame. I'm your classic Nice Guy, NMMNG could have been an autobiography.
I don't mean to sound so negative I'm just trying to expose myself here, you guys can relate and came out the other side as men, plus it feels good to have an outlet. In a way it's ironic, I had such a low self value for so long while deluding myself that things were great, now I'm realistic about where I'm at but I have a higher self worth.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
I am still in "fake it until you make it" mode; that sounds like you are too. just STFU and keep going
Memories_Of_Ice 6y ago
Will do, you too man, we got this.
frozenpond 6y ago
OYS #30 6/8/20
First OYS on 3/12/19
Stats: 6’2”, 208lbs, 40 years old, wife 41, married 7 together 9, 2 kids. Lifts: 225 lbs bench is my 4 rep max. Read: Sidebar books++.
Frame/Mental:
I feel like I am failing badly because I spend a lot of the day angry by what is going on in the US. In early March I was very anti-lockdown and saw Covid as a tool primarily used for government control and destruction of the middle class. I have never been a gun guy, I never had exposure to them growing up and avoided them my whole life, but I bought a gun the first week of March and started going to the range and took a course to get a concealed carry permit. I am concerned for my children being indoctrinated and I am concerned for my property rights. I am shell shocked by the hysteria I perceive and it leaves me in a bad place mentally. I bought the gun because I knew lockdown would lead to high crime. I didn’t know it would be all out riots before the lockdown even ended. I’m just a guy trying to make money and have a family. So I need to do better with regards to my anger over something I have no control over like mass hysteria.
Sex/Marriage/Relationship:
While I feel that I am failing because internally I am furiously angry, my wife has been more submissive than ever. I think she feels much better knowing that her husband armed himself to protect her and child. We are getting along well and her views align with mine for the most part. Sex quality/frequency is better than ever. She is pleasantly taking care of her roles in the house and doing an admirable job teaching my daughter at home.
Fitness:
I’ve been at the gym nearly every day since it opened a few weeks ago. I’ve cut down my cardio maybe 50% but upped my strength training consistency to new highs. On MK-677 (ibutamoren) for just over a month now and it’s working.
jaackknives 6y ago
OYS # 6
34 yo, 6’1”, 176 lbs. Married 9 years, together 15 years. 1 kid (5). 15% B.F (Navy method).
Squat 165x5, Bench 140x5, Deadlift 205x5, OHP 90x5
​
Not doing much of anything for hobbies or social lately.
​
Reading
Completed WISNIFG, NMMNG, MMSL x2, SGM, TRM, MAP. Currently reading Pook, Starting Strength.
​
Lifting/Exercise
Missed 1 or 2 of my supporting workouts late last week. First time in weeks I’ve missed any. Still lifted 3 times though. My body weight dropped like crazy last week after I started lifting.
I started out too light on the bench press, so I adjusted my workout plan to increment by 10 lbs instead of 5. Will do that for the next 1 or 2 sessions. I’ve been incrementing weight in all my workouts, but know I have to work on my form in the others. When I come up out of the squat my knees collapse inward. It feels like it’s due to a lack of strength, but could be bad form as well. I don’t have the issue at lower weights, and it only gets worse as the weight increases. I’m going to drop back down to 135 lbs and work on form.
I reached out to a good friend of mine, asked him to be my lifting mentor. He’s been lifting barbells for a number of years. He lives in a different state so obviously can’t be there for the lifts, but will be a great resource.
​
Diet/Health
Diet last week was great, but I haven’t tracked my calories or macros in a while.
Still need to get my T-levels checked. I don’t have a PCP, so I’m setting that up as well. Will get an appointment booked by the end of the week.
​
Sex
Sex has not been one of my top priorities lately. I still want it and initiate, but it hasn’t been something that I’ve been pushing as hard lately to improve. I think this has been helpful, however. When it does happen, I’ve been more in control of myself and haven’t been as worried about the outcome.
That being said, I have noticed a lot more IOI from my wife. I pushed through a soft ‘no’ one night, but it was the first time where I clearly identified it as as such, determined that I would push through, and executed.
Premature Ejaculation: Heydoctor.co came through in record time, took about 4 hours from creating an account to getting a prescription for generic Cialis. Initial price for 30 pills was $360, but a Rx coupon took that down to $20. I couldn’t fucking believe the difference.
​
Mental
I’ve been able to keep up a good mood and playful attitude this past week. Shit tests are coming more frequently (or at least I’m noticing them now). They are often about my looks/dress when I head out, or she’s prodding me for a reaction on something. The former usually get A&A, the latter get ignored.
In phase one of developing frame. I’m still figuring out my worldview, and know that I operate in others’ frames. I’m probably weakest in this regard in the workplace, need to get my confidence up after moving to the new team. This will come with experience.
​
Family/Home
Lots of big projects going on around the house, mostly landscaping related. I should do a better job of driving the projects, or at least keep a tally in my head of what tasks need to happen next. My wife has a lot more time on her hands as she’s getting laid off next month, so she has more time to spend working on them. I still have to work full time and don’t put much mental effort into thinking about them. It annoys me when she starts driving the next tasks, as I feel like I’m failing in that regard.
​
Style / Hygiene
Bought new dress pants & dress shirts. I feel like the 'slim' cut dress shirts are still too large, may have to find out what other options there are. Went through the closet and donated a bunch of stuff that is gigantic on me now.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Ignore the feedback you've received and instead focus on why you are entirely aimless. You journal your thoughts like a little girl reminiscing over her birthday weekend.
What the fuck do you want?
jaackknives 6y ago
Thanks, you hit the nail right on the head. I'm assuming you're not talking about a full-blown mission at this point? I certainly have goals that I have not yet articulated yet - I'll get these outlined on my next OYS.
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
You're 34, 6'1", can't SQ even your own body weight, and need Cialis for sex?
Ya think???
How about "I will" (because it actually matters), or "I will let it go" (because it doesn't)
Everything you wrote after that is a pile of excuses and feelz.
Maybe you should get your T checked and get back to work putting on some fucking muscle then...
BootySlayer911 6y ago
OYS 2
46, stbx 42, kids 8&6, 6'1 170lbs; BF% tbd, cheap calipers inaccurate, 5x5 5th week, boxing pushups and abs; eating berries fish milk water seeds, need to increase protein besides just protein shakes and fish
Reading: Art of Seduction, sidebar, going to focus on list u/johneyapocolypse provided in business article
Kids: Phone conference with judge, approved to move forward with counseling "therapeutic intervention" since their estranged from me at this point (7 months): should be update soon: their bedroom is filled with unopened Christmas presents which they may have outgrown at this point: is she trying to destroy my relationship with them?
Finances: D- Got laid off unexpectedly last week, contract was supposed to go another year. Interviewing for every company that will see me, going to look outside of my industry as well; I really need a paycheck but I'm not afraid to lose the house anymore and I'm focused on long term; had good interview earlier, could get me well into 6 figures in 2-3 years; online business full steam ahead taking alot of hours; shooting for 4-5 sources of income eventually after the divorce; working around the clock
Divorce: Got discovery docs today so add that to the workload; not that much left, been too busy but plan to bone up on sidebar div prep this week; during meeting with judge stbx atty spent about 10 min explaining what a pos and unfit father I am; at last I'm starting to understand lawyer jokes; the guy interviewing me earlier said his div was "the best thing that ever happened to him"; I'm starting to agree at least from a health perspective; I saw old pics on Amazon from right before I got served, its shocking I had oneitis for basically a mid 6 harpy who called the fucking cops on me; I can't believe I was "into bbws";
Relationships: A 6 from a dating app told me she was celibate, when I asked if she was fucking with me she had me banned from the app; nobody can take a fucking joke anymore; laying off Tinder for a while need to get a job; the fat 5 from 2 weeks ago tried reverse cowgirl and almost broke my dick; signed up for Meetup dance class, sounds gay I know but its like 70% women; networking with ceo/sbo group met a couple prospects who are talking me through job search: family back in TX wants me to come visit but need to wait until I see my kids: ready to get divorce over with, I know my kids are ready to get out of the crappy apartment theyre in and come sleep in their room
Goals: Get a job asap, get online business kinks worked out and launched, work on divorce docs, eat more protein continue to build muscle, manage time and stop wasting time and stop looking at porn again; 2 keys to building wealth: 1) Get focused 2) Get organized
Stop feeling sorry for myself, I'm in excellent health be thankful for that, take advantage of every opportunity
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Start with:
Read only those two for the next 4 months.
Vegasman20002 6y ago
You need six months of not even thinking about women. Get your house in order. And hit the gym so you don't look like a 14yo girl.
You will get zero out of OYS until you read the sidebar twice
[deleted] 6y ago
OYS #11 - Posted June 9, 2020
Early 20s, College Student (STEM), 5’7”, 151 lbs, \~15% BF (Picture Method), Single
Old Weightlifting PR’s -
Squat: 165 lbs; Deadlift: 185 lbs; Bench Press: 95 lbs; Overhead Press: 65 lbs; High School Mile Time: 6 min
Readings Completed: TRP Sidebar, TRP Lurking since 2018, PFP, Pook, Models, NMMNG, WISNIFG.
Last Week’s Progress:
Physical:
I did a shortened version of my workouts ⅔ times this week. The first one was reasonable due to physical reasons and the second one was me not prioritizing it. Working out has really improved my discipline and mood, so I need to get this back on track ASAP.
Goal: Complete my 3 workouts this week fully.
Running is getting a lot better now. I think I can get on a running plan again now that my injuries are clearing up.
Goal: Set up a running plan for the next two weeks and run 3x times a week.
Social:
I am continuing to work on improving my relationship with my family, especially with my sister. I can see the progress with my siblings and it’s made the household easier to relax in.
Goal: Continue spending time with my siblings.
I reached out to two of my friends this week and am in the process of setting up plans with them. I attempted to reconnect with a friend from high school, but it looks like our values/priorities have shifted and the friendship has lost some of its value.
Goal: Schedule some plans with those two friends.
Creative:
Watching television has largely replaced my hobby time. I watch with my family and we chat in between. This has been good for family bonding, but I have not made time for myself. I have spent this week consuming information/entertainment and not producing enough.
Goal: 3x 20 minutes of creative activity this week
Mental:
The meditation has been helpful with my stress/anxiety. It calms me down and stops my ruminating.
Goal: Meditate 10 minutes a day 6 days this week
I notice myself taking on a parenting role with my siblings. It’s hard to not do this while improving my relationship with them since they grew up with weak parents and a lack of role models. When I was a kid, I was put in the “man of the house” role by my mom, and this is something I have struggled with for years. I need to tone down wanting to control them and their actions.
Goal: Revisit WISNIFG and assess how I am attempting to control my siblings.
Last week I set the goal of tracking my mood. I didn’t track it, so I’ll do that here. This week's mood would best be described as “Sleepwalking through life” and comfortably/uncomfortably numb. This is probably due to the consuming I mentioned in the creative section.
Reflections
I was recently notified of my coworkers for my school job next year. I am anxious about my reputation at school and hope I am on good terms with them. This is a job where I could easily be fired if my reputation or relationships with my coworkers gets bad. I know that I have good intentions and shouldn’t worry too much. At the same time, I was/am pretty awkward (gotten the “creepy” label several times) and have unnecessarily taken polarizing political stances. Would reading 48 Laws of Power help with improving my reputation?
keepingittogether20 6y ago
OYS 17
#60dod
37y.o. 6'0" 205 lbs 23% BF (Navy Method) Wife 34y.o. 5'11"178lbs, Married 11 years, Kids 9(m) 5(f)
Reading/SB
NNMNG, MMSLP, King Warrior Magician Lover, MAP, Poon, The King Within, TWOTSM, BPP- SLSM, Youtube Archetype Videos, Tons of Athol Kay & Entrepreneurs in Cars. Pinned Sidebar + Links within those.
Currently Reading: Pook. Moved Wild at Heart to my toilet read since it is moving so slow. I want to and will finish it, but my interest is waning and I want to keep my reading on track.
Physical
Strength
Day A: BP: 175x12, 3x 225x5, 175x12 DL: 3x 215x5 Tricep overhead w/45lb plate 3x15
Day B: Bent Over Row: 3x 100x10, OHP 3x 100x10 Squat 3x 100x10, Shoulder fly 25lb plates 2x8
Plank 3x per week, 2 minutes each time.
2x swim sprints- one day of this was chasing a jet ski
Full day of stand up jet ski- holy shit
I lifted 4 days this week and feel much better after doing so. The day on the ski left me feeling sore in a good way in *most* muscles.
Diet
The grocery shop the previous week helped give me good options, so I repeated that shop this weekend. I stopped the gain, and will keep that momentum going. Meat, fruit, vegetables are my main focus.
Hygiene
Staying good all around here, including the house, the yard, and added my car to the list since I have not been using it much and it needed a touch-up.
Style
Focusing on a summer style that highlights my chest and arms. Ordered another pack of separated underwear.
Fat
After rereading last week’s OYS, I went back to the OYS1 and saw that I have gained 20 lbs since January. That kicked my ass into lifting that day, and I stayed steady through the week. I also went hungry at least once each day and killed 2 12 packs of soda water over the week to put something in my mouth that wasn’t food when I got hungry. I lost a pound, but more importantly stopped the gain and am focused on shedding 10lbs of fat through diet and lifting.
Goals
Lift 5x, swim 2x, go hungry 2x each day, drink soda water instead of bullshit food.
Mental
Most nights were good, but I stayed up late again on Friday, slept in on Saturday and started the day out feeling like I wasted it. I will go to bed at a decent hour this Friday to kick the weekend off right.
I am stressed about the closings, and will be until they are finished.
Pot: Today is day 80.
Anger popped back up a few times this week. Each time I determined what I could have done differently leading up to that moment and it helped turn the energy into something productive.
Goal: 5.5 hours minimum of sleep each night, one night of 7 hours. Stay motivated. Go to bed by 1am on Friday.
Mission
Short term: My closings were moved to Friday, so continue to work the details until that is done. 1 key contractor is lined up, and the flooring estimators will all be out over the weekend. Choose the right one, get the plan in place and start executing.
Goal: Find my long-term mission
Marriage
Another week of no shit tests. Yesterday she started bitching with a nasty tone (I don’t even remember what about) and I immediately said “I am happy to talk to you, but not like this. Change your tone or this conversation is over”. She changed her tone.
I also have noticed her seeking my attention and approval more as I continue to focus on me instead of her. A few times she told me about various problems and I worked to hear her FEELZ and let her talk through it without offering suggestions/opinions. The eye contact and autistic grunts worked great.
Goal: repeat of last couple weeks: Lead, get shit done, STFU, don’t fucking DEER, fix the feelz instead
Social
Did an impromptu jet ski (stand up) ride with a couple of friends. We rode for several hours and on top of a good time socially it was a great physical workout and did wonders for my mindset and stress. I have been in touch with friends via phone as well.
Goal: reach out to at least 2 friends this week to chat.
Career
More of balancing the owners wanting everyone to return to the office and the staff not wanting to return. We had a breakthrough yesterday that delayed the return by at least a month, in a way that made the owners and the staff all feel good.
Goal: same as last: Efficient, competent execution. Stay focused
Finances
My final closing disclosures are in, and things look good. I am negotiating with each contractor, and just agreed with one to have me do all of the clean-up work (haul shit to the dumpster and sweep) throughout the project to save $1k. I see it as being paid to work out. As we start the projects I will look for these opportunities every place that I can.
Goal: don’t let any $ slip through the cracks. Competent execution. Ensure wife understands all numbers and associated limitations.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
keepingittogether20 6y ago
How much sleep do you suggest?
Very possible. Looking at the Jung archetypes the lover (living in the moment, connecting) has historically been my weakest/shadow. It's getting better. The autistic grunts are not the end game
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
5.5 just isn't enough. I did that and less for a long-ass time and it's something I would change. I think very few people can thrive on less than standard requirements which are more along the lines of 7/7.5.
I'm also confident that long-term sleep deprivation just fucks with you: your brain, your body, your longevity, and more.
Be smart. Find your edge without robbing yourself of sleep.
p.s. I used to think I was one of those people who could thrive on the low amounts and I'm convinced I was wrong.
DrBeaufort 6y ago
OYS #9
Stats
Age mid 30s, together with wife \~15y. 1 toddler. Height 6'1", weight 226lbs.
Squat - 320x5, Press 132.5x5, Deadlift 320x5, Bench 185x5
Sidebar
Finished: NMMNG, MMSLP, MAP, TWOTSM, WISNIFG
Reading now: TWOTSM audiobook (substantially different than text version), SGM
Sleep
Still sleeping terribly, and waking up in the night often feeling anxious and angry about random things. I have started experimenting with breathing exercises before bed, and after waking up in the night, and they help me get back to sleep, but not to fall asleep.
Lifting/diet
My doctor convinced me to do a 2 week deload at 50% with no Valsalva maneuver to heal a non-lifting related injury, so I had no strength gains this week. My weight has been steadily falling with 3 fasts per week, at a rate of about 1.1lbs/week.
Relationship
My wife has been shit testing everyday, and I've passed some, and failed others. I started feeling very discouraged because she out-persisted my assertiveness and I lost frame and started DEERing, however I do stay calm and don't get angry as I used to. The worst one was literally the exact scenario from the "drunk captain" explanation- I made an insignificant substitution grocery shopping and this was proof of all sorts of moral and other failings. I think to build my frame I need a lot deeper inner work- meditation, breath work, solitude- not just basic assertiveness.
She is having legitimate extreme stress from external events, and I am trying to 'be the oak', and it seems like I succeed about half of the time.
Parenting/household
Frankly, I've let this slip and the house is messy, and I lost my temper with my son a few times. I've done a bad job setting boundaries regarding splitting childcare during the pandemic, and got really fatigued from watching a manic toddler with no breaks.
Personal/social life
I did a video call with an old friend, and another with some coworkers.
Career/work
I am still really behind in my work, but started organizing a GTD system to manage my time, and prioritize my efforts. I also tried working on a laptop outdoors, and doing some breathing exercises before working and found a lot more focus that way.
Frame/mindset
I would say my expression of frame is still virtually non-existant, but I feel that I have my own frame internally, and am trying to learn how to express it.
Goal accountability from last week
-Emphasize sleep, get to bed early
Result: Success, I made time for sleep but still didn't sleep well
-lift 3x, 20 hour fast 3x
Result: Success
-practice WISNIFG techniques
Result: Failed, I did practice them but failed to do it very well
-listen better to wife
Result: Failed, This goal feels like an internalization of her shit tests after this last week
-start deep work for 5 minutes 3x/day (more specific than last week)
Result: Failed
-call one old friend to catch up
Result: Success
-eat less, be really hungry everyday for at least an hour
Result: Success
Next week goals
-Emphasize sleep, get to bed early
-lift 3x, 20 hour fast 3x
-practice WISNIFG techniques
-start deep work for 5 minutes 3x/day (more specific than last week)
-call one old friend to catch up
-eat less, be really hungry everyday for at least an hour
​
FYI I will not have an OYS next week because I will be in the wilderness without computers/internet.
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
Learn to STFU.
Acta Non Verba
This blurt of yours is a combination of DEERing and validation seeking. No one cares, just share what you learned when you get back. Part of that reflecting should probably be on
DrBeaufort 6y ago
You're right
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
In terms of sleep, how much caffeine do you consume? My sleep improved after limiting this. Another thing that seemed to help me was to start sleeping on a grounding sheet.
DrBeaufort 6y ago
Not much, I'm down to 1 cup/day on waking up, but I am a slow caffeine metabolizer (a pretty common liver enzyme mutation). It's possible that is enough to mess me up as I am very sensitive to stimulants in general.
theChetRP 6y ago
OYS #11
38y, 5'6'', 199lbs, 18% BF (calipers)
Married 8y, Together 12y. 18y stepson, 6y son
OYS #10
Sidebar
NMMNG, MMSLP, WISNIFG, MAP, Pook, TWOTSM, SGM, The Natural, The Ironwood Collection of Alpha Moves, Day Bang (50%), various MRP posts
Reading:
NMMNG 2nd time. Currently on Activity 36.
How To Answer "Do These Pants Make My Ass Look Fat?" By Athol Kay the companion book to MMSLP 80%
The Rational Male 25%
MRP Posts:
InChargeMan's Story
Fitness
SQ 305x8, OHP 165x6, DL 275x11, BP 265x8 before the lockdown
Workout 6 times last week. I don't have any excuses for not working out when I'm building out a gym in my garage. So I am keeping disciplined by working out often. Wife shit tested me about this on a day she was not feeling well. I replied that's it's not about you and left it at that.
Mindset
I've come to realize I have several goals I want, but my time management is shit. I'll spend a lot of time reading MRP or TRP posts and OYS and not get the other things done that I want to, such as building my android app. This demotivates me and perhaps I'm also avoiding putting in the effort because I'm afraid of both failure and success. If I fail it's a wasted effort and time, if I succeed then I now have to take responsibility for keeping up the success. Deep down I know what I need to do. I need to plan out my time and carve out hours throughout the week dedicated to each task. Plan out an hour of reading sidebar material 1 or 2 nights a week, plan out an hour for learning and developing my android app, etc… If I do this then I can develop discipline to do those things instead of this adhoc style I'm doing now.
Last week I learned a lot from u/InChargeMan's advice and really thinking about what my non-negotiable needs are and where my frame is in regards to those needs. I'm placing most things in the want list for now as I work through letting go of my ego and learning to be overt and how to set boundaries. One need that I will identify as non-negotiable is my physical health and fitness. I will make the time and effort to maintain my health and fitness and I will be overt about my desire to maintain my health and that I will work out at least 5 days a week. I stated this today when my wife got pissy about me working out on a Tuesday which she claimed were her days to work out. She wasn't really pissed about that, but something else. I stated that I plan to work out 5 days a week now and that if she doesn't want to share the garage/gym for her workouts then she will need to inform me of her plans for the day so that I can still work out and she can have the garage/gym to herself . Another thing I thought of in regards to my health and fitness is my need to be left alone and allowed to rest when I am really sick. In the past when I've gotten really sick with a high fever and body aches I've gotten tons of shit for wanting to just rest and get well with claims of not helping enough with the daily tasks. I cannot help my family if I'm too sick and not resting. It prolongs my illness and makes it worse for me and for my family. If I'm left to rest when I'm really sick then I can get over it sooner and take on the daily tasks more efficiently. I would do the same for her. This is only for those rare occasions where I am really sick with a high fever, body aches and weakness.
I'm realizing that I'm wanting to improve more for my own sake and improve all areas of my life, not just to get more sex. I want sex, yes, but it's not the priority it once was when I first discovered MRP. I saw that I was measuring my success on whether I was getting laid or how often and whether she was willing to reciprocate my sexuality or do certain sex acts. I came to the realization (ironically during sex) that my wanting to do certain things sexually was really about validation. I was using it to validate my progress as a HVM and that's the wrong mindset. So I'm being more realistic with sex and not using it as a measuring stick and allowing myself to be immersed in the pleasure of sex instead of whether a certain sex act is done to validate my ego. My measurement of success will be from within and how I feel about myself rather than external.
My priorities in regards to my MAP are to work on developing my list needs and wants, how to enforce my boundaries, how to be more overt with my desires and build my viewpoint of being the prize.
Last Week's Goals
Next Week's Goals
InChargeMan 6y ago
How's that pill taste? Good progress, keep it up!
theChetRP 6y ago
Thanks. I appreciate your guidance. It's really helped me change my mindset.
InChargeMan 6y ago
Happy to give back!
redditanew 6y ago
OYS#2 – Butthurt and Speaking About Feeling Edition
42yo 6’3” 188lbs, wife 43yo, married 15 years, 2 kids
Reading: All of sidebar – once… internalized very little, action taken… zero. MRP lurker grade: A+
Currently reading: Rational Male, revisit after 2 years.
Lifts/Health – Weak, just started back last week w/ 5x5. Always been thin, need to eat and grow!
Weekly update: As I stated last week I’ve been living in my wife’s frame. Realizing this is the situation I have worked to reset each day and make decisions. Have I been successful, no not always, especially resetting each day. I still get butthurt easily.
Flashback scene… four months ago I decided to speak (I know) to my wife about her lack of desire and how this has been a problem for our entire marriage. I was sick and tired of it. It has never technically been a dead bedroom, lots of starfish, but, as stated last week, I think the consistency of starfish is because it makes the marriage easier for her than listening to me bitch.
It came up again this week and it turns out she doesn’t feel loved by me. We revisit the discussion mentioned above and talk… a lot… about feelings. Queue sulking and butthurt about the lack of progress in our marriage.
Upon review, this falls on my shoulders to stop talking and slowly start making changes.
Two items I have been thinking about this past week:
That a wife as a reflection of her leader. Is she fun? Is she having fun? And a similar idea that your wife will flow into and fill the container she is provided. Unfortunately, I broke all of the mirrors and bowls.
At this moment, shedding the mindset in #2 above and all that is attached to it seems daunting, but I’ve heard from some smart people that you cannot negotiate genuine desire.
I did weakly initiate last night and we had starfish sex. It was satisfactory, but as I had written this OYS post previously in the day, I felt oddly detached. Not uncaring, but not as emotionally invested.
Overall, I need to revisit my timeline and lower my expectations of how long this will take. I need to put in the work each week to raise the bar.
Plan:
Spacemanfromspace1 6y ago
Hey guys. New here.
Lately I’ve been reading NMMNG. I’ve been blaming my LTR for a lot of the problems, when in reality, I had a lot of shit I had to own. I realized this about a week ago and started taking measures to deal with my shit. First and foremost I started seeing a shrink. I realized I couldn’t do this shit alone and I needed professional help. Secondly, I signed up here to get insights and perspectives I’ve never thought about. Now, here the problem I’m facing now. My GF is currently on her way over here after a death shift, and I can feel that the shit I’ve been working on with myself is flying out of the window and that I’m getting nervous. It’s not her fault, she hasn’t done shit to make me think like this. No, it’s my fault. I place too much value on her. Somewhere in the sidebar, I read that I have to take it slow and that I can’t implement all of TRP/MRP principles at once, so that’s what I’m doing. Taking it slow. This week I’m focusing on not taking myself too seriously, being able to relax and not stressing about how I imagine things are supposed to be. I’m focusing on doing what I gotta do, and letting go of the rest of the BS. Most importantly, I’m focusing on not being too hard on myself in regards to how the day goes with my LTR, and I’m not gonna be afraid of things going wrong. Basically, I’m trying to condition myself to not give a flying fuck. I honestly don’t know if this is the right approach, but fuck it, I’ll give it a shot. I’m done placing blame on her and I’m finally gonna start owning up to my shit
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
What the fuck is a death shift asshole?
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
Welcome. Good job so far on taking some small steps in self improvement to see shrink, reading NMMNG and owning your shit. If you are going to continue participating in these threads and you want to get the most value out of them, you need to follow the format. That is posting stats of age, height, weight, relationship status, lifts. Post what books you've read from the sidebar, and also post some of your goals and things you are working towards.
You say you need to own you shit, but you don't tell us what that shit is. You say you have anxiety over interacting with your girlfriend, but you don't tell us why. We can't help you if you don't give us any information to work with. I suggest you lurk more and read other users OYS posts and read the feedback from the veterans. Start working on your next OYS post today to be ready to post in next weeks thread.
Spacemanfromspace1 6y ago
Hey Leonidas.
Thanks for answering and apologies for fucking up the format. I’ll have it fixed for next week.
The reason that I have situational anxiety over interacting with my girlfriend, is because I feel like I have to show her that I’m Mr. Big Dick Swingin Super Alpha Bro 3000 and that nothing can phase me. Ironically, everything phases me because, I’m actually looking for her validation instead of trusting myself and believing that I actually am Mr. Big Dick Swingin Alpha Bro 3000. I pedestalized her. As mentioned, this week (and maybe next week) I’m working on just letting go, not being so hard on myself, and surrendering to things. Surrender to the fact that shit might go wrong. I’m not sure it’s the right tactic for de-pedestalizing her, but it feels like a first step in a right direction. I wrapped up NMMNG and I’m starting WISNIFG.
Whatev22 6y ago
OYS 6/9/2020
Physical:
Only worked out once last week. Took a couple days to go fishing. Continue to workout from home w/ kettlebells and dumbbells. BF 15.5%
Mental:
Still working on NMNNG exercises.
I have been to a therapist twice since last OYS. I let him know I need an accountability partner and that the area I have to work in hardest is in being assertive. He has had me doing some journaling and we have started to isolate where I need to be assertive and what expectations of what are reasonable in areas I’m weak over the coming week. I meet with him again this Friday.
Relationships:
Wife: the RE deal fell through last night. I told her I hold her fully accountable for not doing her part sooner. Tears and excuses. I have given her 72 hours to come up with an alternative plan. The plan needs to be fully developed, not just ideas.
Son: he paid his June room and board.
Employee: I gave him written notice of his attitude issues with a verbal ‘this is your last warning’ anything further is dismissal. Demoted him from supervisory duties to focus on his core work areas.
He has been slightly passive aggressive following (one occasion). I’m not waiting for another offense. I’ve got a meeting with a HR lawyer later this week to get more details on firing a long-term employee with proprietary information in a state with weak laws for employers to protect non-compete issues. I’m working with others on my team who are trustworthy as to how we will get the key duties fulfilled when the employee is dismissed.
Social:
Very little. I’ve got an event this weekend. I have been woodworking on the weekends to get a project finished.
ancient_resistance 6y ago
OYS 17
Early 30s, 5'10", 179lbs, 19%bf. Married 10 years, 4 kids. 5/3/1 PRs: squat 160#, bench 160#, deadlift 250#, ohp 95#. Reading WISNIFG, MAP, Extreme Ownership. Read NMMNG, Meditations, TWOTSM.
MENTAL
My time in the mountains showed me I have become a dancing monkey, doing everything for the approval of either my wife or MRP. Approval from others is so enticing because I spent most of my life hating myself. Both hating my life's circumstances growing up, and hating the ways I made things worse. The concepts of unconditional self-acceptance, a fully-internalized sense of worth, and being my own judge, are still very foreign.
I'm having trouble sorting out my experience with the advice from other MRP men. The impression I've gotten is that I should treat my past self as gone and dead, someone I can beat up and examine to learn from. My experience has shown that accepting and fully integrating all past iterations of myself is the path to peace, and the only path to ultimately build strength. It seems true that I can't change anything until I accept everything.
This is acceptance in only the stoic sense. "Acceptance" here does not mean ego-stroking or even approval. I don't mean adopting pop psych self-help mantras. I mean an honest assessment of where I come from and where I stand, and accepting myself in spite of all my fuckups and bullshitting. I mean seeing myself through eyes of self-respect. Stop looking at myself (present or past) through eyes of disgust. Start looking at myself with humanity and compassion no matter what I did or didn't do, and no matter how fucked up that made things. Once I start to see myself with respect, unburdened by the past, with limitless potential in the future, then I can start shaping and molding myself into something better.
I can see how this could look like something I don't mean. I don't mean letting myself off the hook, or denying my responsibility. I mean saying to myself, "yeah, you really fucked that one up. Let's see how we can make it right" instead of "yeah, you really fucked that one up, you worthless piece of shit." That second quote summarizes my sense of self for about 25 years. Only 2.5 years ago did I even begin thinking that maybe I'm not a rotten piece of shit down to the core.
Going into the mountains alone helped me face myself. No distractions. No more stream of external validation. Just face-to-face with myself, and my self-loathing. It took that kind of distraction-free time to see clearly enough that I have to accept myself if I ever want to get out of the dancing monkey circus. If I hate myself I can't be my own point of origin, which means I will depend on others for validation. If I accept myself I can become my own source of validation. It sounds so easy on paper, like it's a lightswitch we can just turn on. But for me I needed to get away from every distraction before I could face it, and change.
Since coming back I recalibrated everything, starting with my interactions with my wife. No more peacocking, toned down the cocky/flirty attitude. Friendly but not overly playful. I need a lot of practice being my own source of validation. I wish I could say I had the frame to put external validation in its rightful place, but the past couple months have proven otherwise. I get drunk on it and before I know it I'm blacked out leading my own dancing monkey 3-ring circus.
My only goal for the foreseeable future is to stay on this path. I need to slow down, focus on building my internal structure (frame), let go of everything else (practice DNGAF). I need to build a foundation of self-respect before anything else. This will take longer than I want it to. But I accept that.
-AR
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
Nice new flair ya got there AR.
Congrats on your internal realizations as well.
Granite is shaped by chipping away, wedge after wedge, until the final key hammer stroke hits and the separation occurs.
Keep chipping away brother.
ancient_resistance 6y ago
Likewise.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
You ever taken shrooms?
ancient_resistance 6y ago
Yes.
Funny you mention it. I thought about that for the first time in years on my way up to the camp site. I did shrooms during my early 20's massive binge on all kinds of unhelpful shit, so I wrote them off along with all my other drug abuse when I got sober. But I remember liking them, and no side-effects.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Shrooms can fuck you up if you're predisposed to it.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
I can only share my notes and experience.
I had never done hard drugs in my life until I began my MRP journey. Smoked pot that was about it.
Mushrooms gave me the clarity I was seeking because I went into that experience of using them as a tool to find that clarity. Not for recreation. I knew what I wanted from the experience - to be shown a path without my ego and self involved. It took a lot of mental prep, but I did it. I was scared fucking shitless. Probably one of the most difficult things I've ever done.
Then I began my journey.
Might be worth a trip if you've prepared. Hit me up in DM if you want to know more.
MrRed3321 6y ago
OYS #4
Stats
Mid 30s, 5'7" 140lbs, wife early 30s, married 6 years, 2 kids under 6
Squat - 155x5, OHP 95x5, Deadlift 155x5, Bench 135x5
Sidebar
Finished: MMSLP, Rational Male Reading: NMMNG
Lifting/Health I pushed myself hard last week with the lifting and my body felt it. Someone mentioned something along the lines of "strength is built through challenge". I had been content with my newb gains, and had not been challenging myself like I should.
I continued to track my calorie and protein intakes all of last week. Met goals 4 out of 7 days. I will continue to track and improve on meeting goals all 7 days.
Quitting smoking has continued to be a roller-coaster. It is no one's responsibility but my own to quit.
I need to work on what food I am putting into my body.
Parenting
I have continued to improve on being a leader for my family. I have found that giving direction and a plan to my family for the day allows for everyone to be more content. I organized evening activities throughout the week for the kids, and we had a great time at the coast over the weekend.
I find it very easy to get wrapped up in my phone or a project when I am at home. I am going to continue working on being more present and interacting when it is family time.
Social
I took a day off by myself last week and went for a hike. It felt good to do something just for myself. I got a couple shitty comments from my wife, but I just smiled, held my frame and enjoyed myself.
I reached out to an old friend to get together over the weekend. It fell through and I havent heard back from them. I did have a long phone conversation with another old college friend. He is going through some life issues and it felt good that he looked upon me as a responsible person to get advice from. I will not be deterred and will continue to grow my social life.
Career/Finances
I took some time to look into a contracting company that I could most likely get a job with. They are accepting applications and I have built rapoir with the owner down to the technicians already. Financially I could probably make more money per hour, but it would require travel and long hours. I am not sure if I want to pursue losing my free time and family time just to chase the dollar.
I will continue looking into opportunities to better my career.
Relationship
The more I try and better myself, set boundaries and be a good leader, the more push back I get from my wife. I put myself in this situation from being a drunk captain, and it will take time and effort before I have the life I want.
I read that there needs to be a healthy balance of gaming and being sexual with a woman, while also giving them the emotional feels that is not related to sex. I feel I may be pushing my wife too hard. I have been getting a lot of "all you think about is sex". I usually just use AA, or just playfully agree with her.
I was also told that "the feminine grows with praise". This stuck with me and over the weekend after my wife took the initiative to clean up the house, I praised her for it. A few minutes later she is making out with me and sticking her hand down my pants. This is just one example, but I know I have not done well with acknowledging when my wife helps out or does something that brings value.
One morning I texted my wife the plan for night. Mostly logistics, but threw in some playful sexual banter. She joked a little back and I stopped responding. Evening progressed as planned. She even picked out some lingerie she hadn't worn in a while. When it started getting sexual, she didn't say anything and went with it for a little bit. I could tell she wasn't into it, and just doing this for me. Then she asked what would happen if she said she didn't want to have sex tonight. I told her that would be a big tease and kept going. She continued to not express any positive feedback. Normally I would just call it quits and try not to get butthurt. It is very unappealing to me to have sex with someone who doesn't want it. Than I realized that she knew what was up, she could have said no when we were naked in the shower rubbing each other before she put on lingerie. This was all just another test. She was looking for some comfort and a connection. I told her that she was beautiful and some other comfort BS, and gave her a kiss on the forehead. She basically melted into my arms after that. She asked if I learned that stuff from a podcast. I laughed and told her I just understand her, ravaging continued.
I have found that I cannot take my foot off the gas. If I coast on being a leader for my family, a test will be coming. My wife doesn't trust me as a leader, and I haven't given her anything to trust at this point.
Another aspect of my relationship that I need to work on is setting boundaries. The biggest issue I have is letting my wife snap at me in a disrespectful manner. I have been so conditioned to be a nice guy and not cause waves, that I have bit my tongue on some of these situations for too long. Lately I have just been STFU, or laughing it off, but i need to vocalize more when a boundary is crossed. I read that a good indicator of an acceptable behavior is wondering what would happen if this occurred on your 2nd date with someone. If something someone does would be a deal breaker on a 2nd date, than that issue should be addressed.
I still have a lot of work to do, and just like many other guys, the more progress I make comes more resistance.
Goals
Meet daily calorie and protein intake everyday. Stop smoking. Make plans with friends for social interactions. Continue being the oak and leader for my family everyday. Set boundaries and make my needs a priority
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Be careful that you don't give away all your secrets. She smelled the need for sex early, knew you anticipated it, and the lag between the sexual banter and action was a large gap.
Consider escalating continually or not until the last minute while you calibrate. It's not sex on demand for you yet. When that happens, it's easy to turn it on or off because she is always anticipating if you'll follow through or not.
"We are leaving the house at 6. Wear a casual dress and those black heels, and red panties. See you later."
Remember: plausible deniability.
MrRed3321 6y ago
Thank you for that insight. I did not think about the lag in the banter and the event. I will work on how I implement this.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
Acta non verba.
[deleted] 6y ago
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LeonidasMRP 6y ago
Do you have any long term plans for addressing the issue with your back? Have you seen a doctor and asked about going to physical therapy or surgical options? Have you looked into any home methods for spinal decompression and back strengthening?
Losing weight will help this issue as well. Speaking of weight loss though, if you want want to speed this up you can drop your calorie intake even further. You're not going to die if you consume 1600 calories a day instead of 2100. The trick is to eat meals high in volume but low in calorie density that will give you a sense of sense of fullness. 1 meal I like is chopping up a whole head of romaine (about 80 cals) and then adding some protein, beans, dressing and garnish. end up with a super filling meal around that's around 500 calories.
Listerine10 6y ago
I second this. I went Keto in February and it's like a cheat code. Lost 24 lbs and went from 23% to 16% body fat. Why don't they teach this shit in school? Cabbage can replace pasta, rice, and potatoes and make you full in any meal. And with virtually no limits on butter, cream, and cottage cheese (damn, any cheese) everything tastes great! Also, zucchini is great for a lasagna.
LeonidasMRP 6y ago
Glad you like it, I personally haven't done keto. Calorie restriction works great for me
Listerine10 6y ago
I did that a few years back. It worked roughly the same, but I was hungry all the time.
Counted my calories for a couple of days on keto and I wound up at roughly 1600 anyway. It will be interesting to see how it will work when I no longer want to lose weight.
00Pi 6y ago
OYS #36 (?)
Age: 42; Married 7 years; 4 kids 4 & under (3 with wife) #5 due in July
Relationships:
It’s been 3+ months since my last OYS. I’m back to focusing on the basics: dialing in STFU, OI, DNGAF etc.
I was away for part of March and April, so there’s not much to report (relationship-wise) from that period. (The separation was purely job related, and I left my wife on good terms: I was mostly getting comfort tests; she was even flirting a little.)
When I returned, I failed a simple shit test and things escalated quickly. (I was not stoic; my wife shit-tested; I DEERed and within minutes we were shouting divorce threats at each other, something we haven’t done since my earliest days in OYS.)
We’ve since reset. Sort of. (I’ve been trying to STFU. She’s no longer freezing me out. And we’ve both been making a notable effort to own our shit - more so than usual.) That said, I know our marriage is a tinderbox. (None of the deep-seated feelings of resentment, betrayal, mistrust, hurt etc have been addressed.)
Where I’m stumbling is internalizing the principles taught here. I get the ideas intellectually (at least on a basic level, I think), but I can’t seem to manifest them in a consistent and meaningful way. I’m still not ready to nuke my nuclear family; I still don’t (genuinely) feel like a prize (and have difficulty owning my shortcomings unapologetically); I still give too many fucks about a lot of shit. I keep thinking of that last scene in The Great Gatsby - where people try to row their boats upstream, but get “borne back ceaselessly into the past.” That’s me. I don’t like it, but I don’t know what to do about it. (Other than to keep fighting through my own resistance.)
One thing to add is that, in the aftermath of the initial blowout, my wife decided to comb through all my OYS reports. (She’s known my handle since last fall - when she broke into my phone - but hasn’t given a shit about mrp until recently ). I eventually deleted everything, which I have mixed feelings about. On the one hand, I want to live transparently and congruently. On the other hand, the idea of sitting down with a therapist or lawyer to analyze my diction does not sound appealing. (She wanted to get an “outside opinion” on how I talk about her; she thinks it’s defamatory; I know I could reign myself in on the “she” statements, so I’ll focus on that moving forward.)
It sucks to be back at square one (essentially) - but it is what it is. I realize I’ve dug myself into this hole and that I’m not an innocent bystander in all this. I’ve fucked up in a lot of ways. I’m willing to own that.
Sex
Until recently, I’ve been too mentally and physically drained to have much libido. I’m getting some desire back, but haven’t tried initiating recently. There’s some self-limiting beliefs going on here that I need to push through.
Health
Improving. I had a minor physical breakdown in early May (April was draining: too much care-taking, and not enough self-care) but I’ve turned that around. In fact, I’ve gotten some very positive feedback from people IRL over my rebound. Been focusing workouts around the TRX (gyms are still closed in my area). I think I’m on a decent trajectory, physically.
Mentally, I could be better about consistently setting aside time everyday to meditate, read, reflect etc, but I’m in a better place (mentally) than I was a couple months ago.
Social:
I’ve been reaching out to some people, but could step it up.
Career:
Taking things a step at a time. Still no great vision, but finances are okay.
Parenting/Kids:
Been noticing a lot of separation anxiety from Kid1. He insists that I (not his mom) do everything: pour his apple juice, give him a bath, open the baby gate for him etc. It’s endearing, but also a little inconvenient at times. I’m behind in setting up his annual care (visit to specialists etc). We did meet with the developmental pediatrician and I’ve been talking to parents of other children with special needs. He enters kindergarten next fall and I need to decide to what degree I’m going to “mainstream” him and fight the bureaucratic system.)
The other kids are doing fine. Quarantine has brought them closer together. As always, I could be better with boundaries. Been trying to hire a new nanny. Originally, the search was generating some drama - but it’s not worth unpacking; things have simmered down. I like the candidate I interviewed yesterday. We’ll see how it works out.
GrindPath 6y ago
Are you still ploughing the babysitter?
00Pi 6y ago
No
KoolAidMan7980 6y ago
Whats going on with that relationship?
00Pi 6y ago
We're on a "break" ( I’m trying to get Babysitter to join the ranks of my other ex gf’s who I’m just “friends” with as I work on my marriage; I want to see if my marriage is salvageable.)
And, yes, I know: my first attempt at that (last winter) didn’t work out so well. (I needed to be better at internalizing a sense of abundance, setting and enforcing boundaries, and getting out of Babysitter and Kid4’s frames.)
PillUpAss 6y ago
As you say, you still have all the same underlying issues as when you left. That reeks of LARPing as you should know by now.
MRP is building a foundation piece by piece, slowly - over years. Try to get 1% better in each area each week and you’ll be a fearsome warrior a couple years from now. You currently have a weak foundation, which is why you cannot build anything. Start with realizing how much you are still in your wife’s and kid’s frames. Make getting out of their frames and building your own one of your 1% improvement / week targets.
Also, you can’t properly OYS with wifey monitoring you. I suggest you take it off the forum for a while and DM some of us your OYS’s instead. You still need to OYS.
00Pi 6y ago
Okay. Good advice. Thanks.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
Here are some strategies to help:
Practically it can mean:
Here's an example.
I practiced what I preach and I'd say it's arguably the best tool in my toolbox.
Now how the fuck I was providing that dumbass answer in the first place is beyond me.
Great book on the subject: The Feeling Good Handbook.
00Pi 6y ago
Thanks for the great tips. You’ve given me a lot to take in. I”ll practice being more mindful about changing my behavior and I’ll check out The Feeling Good Handbook. I was in a CBT workshop several years ago (for depression after my daughter died), and I remember liking the handouts. I think I kept them. I’ll dig them up to see how I can apply the concepts to my current predicament. Thanks for your response.
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
AlohaMaui808 6y ago
How about instead of a ton of stuff you want to do, just pick one thing. Just one. And do that one thing, and do it consistently. Do it for a month.
And don't be a faggot and put off choosing the one thing. Just pick any one thing positive and do it!
SoggyTrain 6y ago
OYS:26 (it's been a couple months)
37, 5'8" 165 lbs (down 5 since before scamdemic), I have not maxed out whatsoever but pre covid lifts: Squat 340 (tested 1RM 340), DL 390, BP 283(275x2) OHP 154
2 boys 2 and 4. Married 9 years, together 11. All sidebar.
I've been here at RP a year now.
Currently Reading: Dirty Talk Mastery. It has levels and timelines....kind of like something else.
Dread Level 1 (where i left off): I've 99% completely eliminated this behavior of getting butt-hurt about sex. I I say 99% because it has happened once in the last 3 months. Once recently I got turned down and left abruptly to go lift, butthurt was evident tho. I was running on no sleep and was being a little bitch. I got a text right after I left from her apologizing for not being in the mood as she is upset she gained a little weight during quarantine and doesn't feel good about it. Later than night she took my hand while we were in bed and placed it on her pussy. Time to move on the levels and continue to improve.
Relationship: Sex on average 3x/week, bj's can be weekly if I want. I don't get a lot of shit tests about anything. Whenever she tries to say something about just having sex yesterday or something I typically just grin and tell her not to put limits on me. Lot's of ILY's.
Goals: Implement "Dirty Talk Mastery".
Fitness: Currently doing the super squat program to see how it does to add mass. I did 1x20 at 145 yesterday and will add weight each workout. I'm getting bloods next week, then will blast and gain some more fucking muscle. I've also cut out 75% of meat from my diet after watching Game-changers and The Great Cowspiracy.
Goals: 175lbs of solid muscle.
Finances: Business has been down almost the same amount I got for PPP, so I'm doing OK. I made 6k off of 15k investment in stocks after crash. I did sell them as I have a lot of shit to pay for and I'm expecting another crash. I'm building myself a new office next month that will cost 60K and closing on a lake house soon.
Goals: Get out of debt, get 3 million in Vanguard index funds to retire on. But also not forget to live life knowing I could die at anytime. This is a 20 year goal.
So in the last year what has changed....
I get laid a lot more, and get more BJ's. I also initiate a lot more, daily to EOD. I still get hard no's, although I find these funny most of the time now.
I still have fear. I still get nervous to tell my wife to get on her knees or whatever else...but I still do it. If I want to tell her something vulgar and send her a dirty text I will. I acknowledge the fear, but don't let it stop me from doing what I want.
I care less. I care less what my wife thinks. I care less what you think.
Pre MRP I still gamed a a couple hours per week, now I don't at all. I love video games, there is just not much time in my life for that shit. A game better be extra ordinary for me to spend my time playing it.
I still have a long way to go. I've slipped up here and there and am posting today to keep myself on track.
man_in_the_world 6y ago
Bravo! +1
MonkModeActive 6y ago
2020-06-09 This is my fifth OYS
Mindset
This week NMMNG Chapter 5 Breaking Free exercises. I am trying to understand what realities I project onto things in order to believe them. In particular around my marriage, which I’ve tried to expand on below.
Mould
Had consult with sports physiotherapist who measured me at 95kg, 182cm and bodyfat 19%. I discussed my immediate ambitions: get bodyfat sub 15%, increase strength, improve posture and muscle tone. He’s following up with a review of my current programme to keep me honest.
Otherwise: two rowing sessions in, two home weights sessions and a 6km run. Gyms have reopened, I haven’t been down yet.
Man
Enjoyed a great lunch with the usual crew of men after missing our April and May sessions due to the thing. Caroused and carried on through the afternoon, went home quite boozed and cheerful. Realised at the bar that I was feeling a little apprehensive about going home, entirely because I was fearful about how she’d react when I got home. Ordered pizzas for delivery for the kids and caught a cab home in time to get involved with baths and bed. I would say that I was more mindful of her frame than I was of mine when I got home, didn’t bulldoze the kids and her just kept things moving along. Didn’t initiate anything that evening, but got my cock sucked the next morning when she joined me in the shower unasked.
Trying to thread the needle with the diaries of two other guys in order to get a deer stalk in mid-week before the end of the month. Enjoying the act of planning and research. Have pencilled in some dates to be away from the house in the family calendar and socialised this at the dinner table with no obvious resistance to it.
Will take the kids camping for a couple of nights during the upcoming school holidays, will ask the wife to join us but we will go regardless.
Mission
Get back to lifting again and keep working on my mould until the path becomes clear. Some part of it involves setting my kids up for success in their life. This thread has helped.
Marriage
It is taking me some time to peel the onion in my writing here. I’ve spoken previously about our plans to move our family to a different home with a bit more space to create a better environment. I want to do all those things for myself and my family. But at the moment I don’t see myself signing onto a(nother) twenty-five year mortgage with this woman. Here, I think, is the beginning of a why.
My wife is a HB seven who would be an eight with a bit more self care. She is anxious and depressed, and is on an SSRI and a hormonal supplement. When we met in our twenties, she was medicated then but worked her way off with professional help. I was this nice guy who was going to fix all her problems! Everything seemed okay.
Post kids, anxiety ramped. An example, for I talked about her being in “full-flight mode” in a previous OYS. A year and a half ago, during a full-fledged anxiety attack (about getting a fucking puppy) which involved a lot of her yelling, neighbours called the police, who arrived while I was on the phone to my wife’s doctor. I thought I was going to be marched to the station, even though my hands were clean. However, after being separated and questioned, the female constable that dealt with my wife instead pulled me aside and said “she needs to see a doctor, preferably a psychiatrist.” And the female constable went on to explain that she had explained to my wife through her hysteria that abusive husbands don’t phone the doctor for help, and that I was to phone the station for a community support officer if I ever felt like things were getting out of control in the future. They haven’t gotten that crazy since. In the days and months following we navigated meds, therapy for her, and so on. She got back to into a job, and the trend improved. I worked on my shit throughout, saw a male counsellor, dealt with some of my own shit.
I’m grateful of the work she has put into our disabled son. This has caused trauma in our family in the five years since his diagnosis. She adds a lot of value to the management of something that at the very least I would have had to hire someone to organise for me. This hasn’t left much left in her tank for the other two kids, let alone for me. That “for me” is a sulk. Things will get tougher for us as parents in the years ahead, not easier. Not sure my first mate is up for it. I’m not sure I’m up for it. Where we live, divorce is pretty straightforward, and the professional advice I have received has put my mind at ease. The assets we have will be split, and I know I can re-build. Hell, I might even enjoy it. Knowing this helps, but it isn’t what I wanted for my family. I feel a long way from being ready to burn it all down. I will keep working on my plan.
Meanwhile, there is a woman at work, early thirties, HB seven or eight that keeps sliding into my messages. I’ve kept this at arms length for months now. She is persistent, and frankly I’m probably the mouse in this situation rather than the cat. The validation and ego stroke is nice, but while I remain in a position of authority at the firm I’m uncomfortable with the power dynamic. I know I could get my nose wet more often than I am, but I feel like so many other aspects of my frame need this energy right now.
I wrote all of this marriage section a couple of days prior to posting. As I review now, I realise I’m actually a bit fearful of posting this here with you savages as I don’t even know what I want out of my marriage. I thought initially it was more sex, or at least higher quality sex, but that’s not entirely it.
Money
Met this morning with my mentor for some coaching ahead of interview for new role at different organisation. This role could make a big difference to my life, but I am already needing to manage my expectations and must not pin too many hopes on the opportunity. In particular, I must not let it affect my frame should I be unsuccessful!
weakandsensitive 6y ago
Rule 9.
Shit is steeped in it.
ImpatientZen 6y ago
I am just a random clueless guy on the internet, so take this FWIW. But being able to relate to the "should I stay or should I go"-question and IOI distractions, I figured I would share a note. From a similar (though not as extreme) point, I completely consciously and premeditated went for the plates as my value increased.
I felt completely in control and it was fantastic - especially for my ego. All the stuff they say about how this stuff works on plates is true. It's kind of wild and addictive. In my case, having this outlet made my marriage bearable. And thus kept me from being confronted with how I was just surviving a shitty main relationship (mostly of my own making in my case), that still took up most of my time. It numbed the pain of the situation and kept me in a weird semi-unhappy limbo. Instead of experiencing enough pain to do the the work and see if the marriage improved or sunk. I wasted years on this, and as fun as the adventures were, cannot recommend.
If you do the work and at some point decide to look around, you won't have to be reactive anyway - the mouse as you describe it in your situation. You will be able to pick, probably higher quality than your co-worker (a lot of risk there, too, btw).
This is in no way moralizing, just a thought about what I learnt. YMMV, in particular given the medical issues etc. you are also facing.
HornsOfApathy 6y ago
This isn't moralizing.
You sought validation through women to assage the guilt that you were a loser deep down, and feared confronting this - using women to build a false sense of ego so you wouldn't have to confront your own.
This situation plays out over and over with men at TRP (and at MRP with men who prematurely plate without "doing the work") who use this method to avoid themselves.
ImpatientZen 6y ago
And that is exactly why I am here. Running around in circles gets old but can be hard to see when you are on the trail. At least for me. Happily MM seems to be awake to the risks.
MonkModeActive 5y ago
I neglected to reply to you after serving my Rule 9 time. Thanks for sharing your perspective, it was helpful.
ImpatientZen 5y ago
My pleasure. Then at least something constructive comes out of what was generally a clusterfuck.
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
PillUpAss 6y ago
Remember captains don’t overly concern themselves with FO feefees. You are not responsible for her emotional state, you do what you want without explanation and without autism. Also, calling yourself a faggot is about to get a lot easier.
SBIII 6y ago
Last night I dreamt that I was in an unamed country on holidays. It was Asian but unlike any country that exists in the real world.
I was staying in a place that was a strange mix of wild countryside and metropolis. You would walk a few blocks through a busy city landscape, then turn a corner and walk through acres of tranquil, beautiful green fields full of natural habitats, and then back through cityscapes, then on to greenscapes and on and on and on.
It was in one of these green belts that I was staying - it was a huge campsite, not made up of individual tents, but of several huge tents that could house hundreds of people. Inside each large tent, were individual pods for sleeping and storing your belongings. Far from being like a festival campsite, this was an extremely comfortable and lavish place, with flowing white drapes, exquisite carpets, blankets and cushions.
By day, I strolled the city parts and by night, I stayed at the camp and enjoyed the company of all the other tourists who came from every part of the world. Each night was filled with food, music, songs, laughing, drinking and drug taking.
One night as I sat enjoying the festivities, a girl caught my eye - she was extremely beautiful, young and waif-like. She was standing with some other girls, talking in German. She looked towards me and smiled. I can still recall her first look - the colour of her hair, her eyes, the outline of her breasts under her clothing and a small chipped front tooth – her only imperfection.
We talked, then drank and took some drugs. Later, as we lay together on a large cushion, talking about everything and nothing, I felt her skin - porcelain and smooth - as her hand reached for mine. I can still feel that touch now.
We became lovers. For how long, I do not know but time seemed to pass without definition - days merging into each other, nights filled with passion, all melting into one, wonderful blur.
Then, one evening as I was returning from the city, I noticed a sign over the entrances to one of the train lines. It read "Warning - Epicentre of Outbreak". Though the station seemed busier than usual with people moving faster than normal, nobody was walking to or from this train line.
It was completely abandoned.
When I returned to the campsite, things felt very different. There was a major change in the athmosphere. The air of relaxation and fun had turned to one of anxiety. Music and laughter had been replaced by worried voices talking quickly and in hushed tones and there was no dancing, singing or merriment.
I returned to my pod to find my lover but she was not there. I searched through the camp for her but she was not to be found.
In the days that passed, everything changed. We were not allowed to leave the camp. This worried people as they did not know how they would get food to eat or wine to drink, but each day food and drink was delivered.
At first, they fought over the food. The strong fought off the weak and took the lion's share of the food, storing it in their pods. And they stayed in their pods, eating, drinking and guarding their food, while the weak stayed in theirs, suffering from hunger.
The food deliveries kept coming – day after day, a fresh supply of food and drink would arrive, enough to feed the whole camp. After a time, when the people began to realise that they would not starve, they began to relax. Nobody stored food anymore and everyone got to eat. They left their pods and began to mingle again. Together, they ate the food and drank the wine that appeared each day and the humour began to lift as the music and singing returned.
But my lover never returned. Though I tried to convince myself that I did not care, I was fooling nobody. Not even myself. I missed her. I could no longer sleep at night. While everyone else in the camp slept contently, I tossed and turned, with memories of my lover passing through my brain. When I dozed off, she would be with me and I would feel her skin on mine, her curly dark hair brushing against my chest as she lay on me, the deep green of her eyes penetrating me with their beauty, her body - that had once filled me with enormous surges of uncontrollabe, raw and animalistic passion – pressed tightly against mine.
But then, after a short time sleeping, I would awaken with a start and she was not there. Just me, alone in my pod, drenched in a feverous sweat.
Then a strange sickness penetrated the camp. People became ill and listless. Nobody knew what it was. The food deliveries began to pile up as nobody was hungry and all the merriment had stopped.
After a time, the sickness passed and life returned to as it had been beforehand. But we were still forbidden to leave the camp. Nobody knew why, but nobody really questioned it either. There was still food and drink and merriment. Maybe there was no reason to question it?
But I still could not sleep. My lover had not returned and I felt detached from the rest of the camp dwellers. The only moments of peace I felt were the few minutes each night where I would fall to sleep and my lover would return to me in dreamlike form.
But she was not there.
There was nothing to keep me at the camp, so one night, I escaped.
I walked to the city, and instinctively ended up at the train station. It was entirely empty. I looked up at the neon signs highlighting the destinations to where each tunnel would lead. There was still one sign that stood out above the rest - "Warning - Epicentre of Outbreak".
I walked towards it.
I stepped into the entrance of the tunnel. On the right hand side, there was a travellator that would take you towards the train platform. On the left hand side, there was a travellator that led from the train platform.
I stepped forward onto the right hand side travellator and it began moving forwards. As it moved, I could see in the distance, the form of another human moving towards me on the left hand side. As it neared, I could just about make out the figure of a female.
She moved closer and closer. Soon, I realised that it was my lover. She was moving towards me. I tried to move my feet. I wanted to run towards her, to jump over the central aisle and onto her side but I couldn't. My feet were firmly stuck to the ground.
As she neared, I could see her so clearly . Fuck - she was even more beautiful than I had remembered. Stunning. She took my breath away.
As we passed, I reached out, as did she, and we touched hands briefly as we were pulled in oppposite directions.
"If you go that way, you will never be able to return", she said.
"I know" I replied, as I let go of her hand, "I know."
SoggyTrain 6y ago
WTF.
SBIII 6y ago
Exactly my own thoughts when I woke up this morning.
Blarg_Risen 6y ago
Heroin?
SBIII 6y ago
If you're selling, I'm buying.
johneyapocalypse 6y ago
I've had three dreams in a row, last three nights:
Yours seems to be about moving towards while mine seems to be more about moving away.
Hmmm, then I read your last sentence and I'll simply agree with "WTF"?